Jane!

Under normal circumstances, the online community would probably be calling for him to accept the debate challenge, to keep the Democratic message before the public, and decry the reliance on carefully sculpted advertising content where the advantage went to the person with the most money. But that disappeared the minute Fox News entered the picture.

Ding!

When Clinton included Fox on the list of debates she wanted Obama to agree to, she sewed the seeds of failure into the plan. It would be nice if he would accept the other debates, but singling out Fox really isn’t his deal so I don’t imagine he will. In cosying up to Fox, the Clinton campaign gave Obama the ability to perfectly thread that needle. It makes his cash advantage weigh heavily in his favor. He is the frontrunner.

wow, spock would ask for your hand in marriage for that demonstration of sheer logic

If it weren’t cruel and unusual, to say the least, reruns of Faux news would make a great coercion tool for information gathering.
Look at how many Americans have been reduced to drooling imbeciles by watching it voluntarily!

”sowed” the seeds.

Seriously though, wtf is HRC thinking?

hey jane. i hope to god they don’t debate on Fox.

Jane, I normally agree with you on most things but you are wrong on this one. I work in a voter registration office in Alabama and can tell you that even though Obama won Ala in the primary no way will he win in Nov.
The voter turn out here was about 33% of the total of our voters and he won because the black voters turned out but the white and other voters did not. But they will in Nov and he will lose and lose badly if he is the democratic canidate. He will not carry a single southern state if he is the canidate. So no matter how much the news hypes him he will lose the general election.
No canidate can win a presidental elections without some southern states.
Hillary is playing to her strengths and will win the presidental election if she can be the democratic canidate.
She is a great debater and will do well and she is using fox for her cause and our cause not fox’s.

it’s called ”panicking”.

Why is there no other venue for a debate? Why is FOX the only one inviting them?

I have to agree, now that edwards is gone I was thinking I wanted her more then obama but that decision made me change my mind pronto

I kind of think hillary can’t win the south either, the republicans have garnered a vile hatred for her and they will amass

mccain’s chances have grown proportionatly since edwards dropped out

I voted for her on Tuesday. I was undecided until Monday night which has never happened in 20+ years of voting. When she does this kind of thing it makes me wonder what the hell she’s up to.

I switched between CNN, MSNBC, and FOX throughout Super Tuesday results. Without question, FOX News really IS more fair and balanced than MSNBC!

If Clinton boycotts any network, it should be MSNBC. FOX is OK with me!

that’s why i first supported edwards in 2004. i thought he at least had a shot in some places in the south. but kerry almsot won w/o the south. it’s do-able.

At this point shouldn’t Klein’s anti-logic only be quoted to support the opposite of what he says?

The name of the game is exposure. I have always loathed Faux but in flipping channels recently they are not much worse than CNN.

To much damn money being spent for this one job as president. Would be nice if that money was used to buy health care for those less fortunate…could probably cover everyone in the entire US (without health care) for quite some time.

Speaking of which (side note), I just experienced another reason why we don’t want the government in charge of health care…..GO GET A U.S. PASSPORT. They are still doing it the same way they did in the 80’s. As a matter of fact, the cutting edge “new technology” is a digital camera and printer they just got last week. Up until then, they were still using Polaroid’s. This is a tiny little thing the government can’t do well, and it still cost $225 for my wife and I. So not only do I pay taxes for this, but I had to pay this additional “fee’s” for processing. Please, I beg all of you, do not put the government in charge of health care. As P.J O’Rourke states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._J._O’Rourke)”If you think health care is expensive now, just wait till it’s free”.

I’m in the south and I have repubs telling me they will vote for which ever Dem is nominated.

*crosses fingers*

please let it be true

eCAHN -

EPU’d from downstairs (if you’re still here)….I saw a clip of McCain being booed at CPAC on Morning (Not) Joe this morning.

As close as Hillary is to Murdoch, how could she refuse to ultimately show up on Fox?

From both a movement and a practical perspective, colossally stupid.

A-fucking-men!!! It shouts “LOSER” all the way…

My understanding is that Senator Clinton listed Fox as a venue for more debates along with CNN, ABC, NBC/MSNBC, etc.

And realistically, can Fox be any worse with “gotcha” nonsense and sandbagging questions than Punkinhaid, The Beard, Tweety, and so on have already been?

Thanks. Was wondering how that got around.

I don’t think she’s all that close to Murdoch or his newspaper wouldn’t have endorsed Obama.

Close, but no cigar — even people like Joe Klein will randomly belch a truth from time to time. Gotta watch for that.

As close as Hillary is to Murdoch, how could she refuse to ultimately show up on Fox?

but that’s the point and it’s why we would hate her for doing it

I agree about Fox but if you are going to use journalistic ethics and practices then a few other places need to go on the banned list as well.

In private, Obama must be rolling around the floor in laughter. After the whole Nevada debate fiasco, what is Hillary thinking? Or is this the $500,000/month advice from the brilliant(/snark) advice of Mark Penn?

Joke Line also pushes the meme that Hills is about “substance” but Bama is about “speech making.” Spare me. For Klein, it is all about the Iraq war, AIP*C and Hills commitment to both. Ditto Fox.

I could see her accommodating Murdoch as just one more ‘necessary evil’, in her campaign.

Do they tell you why?

Hypocrisy…because MSNBC has become as bad as Fox and yet no uproar. Both should be tough enough to go on Fox. They appear in interviews on that network…both of them…This is short sighted. There is no reason Fox will be any worse than Russert or Williams. If the candidates can reach more people, the better for Democrats.

As usual, petty stories from a bunch of hypocrites. There are rules they can agree on that can prevent whatever it is the writer is concerned about. But then let’s have those rules for NBC and CNN too.

Funny, I don’t hear this blogger advocating a ban on MSNBC for their non stop misogyny or anti Hillary bias. Pleaseee. Hypocrisy is so unattractive
in Republicans…why make it part a staple of the left blogs?

Dang, I wish we had comment editor back!!

It may be easier to come up with a list of acceptable stations than list the unethical and disgustingly absent “journalism” stations.

Close, but no cigar — even people like Joe Klein will randomly belch a truth from time to time. Gotta watch for that.

my father has an antique store, in it we have a cloock that once graced the walls of grand central station

it doesn’t work though and nobody can fabricate the part that needs to be replaced, sadly, it’s stuck, never to run again

never the less

it’s corrrect 2 times a day

With his loads of cash, perhaps he could (publicly) offer Clinton a loan for her campaign.

I don’t know who Spock is but I’d wager he’d have to fight for that right. ;-)

I’d love to know the cost/benefit analysis on that - how long do you have to watch before it happens and how much is it worth when it does?

not a trekie I suppose

Makes me question her judgement. I want someone in the WH who is correct from Day One.

Did you see it?

I think that the sock puppets have arrived.

Amen, brother.

And don’t forget, Penn can go back to his lobbying firm after the campaign if he wants. I’ll never know why he’s getting paid all that money upfront. If I was a candidate, I’d give a guy like him a decent paycheck but he’d have to wait till after the election to get paid fully. If she does lose, will Penn refund her any of that $500,000/month?

Good post.

Both should be tough enough to go on Fox.

I don’t mean to be rude, but this is a really lousy argument. MSNBC has KO. They might have pundits that lean right, and Tweety might be nuts, but they’re not there solely as the propaganda arm of the GOP. That’s Fox’s business plan.

Toughness has absolutely zilch to do with it. Toughness really means they tell Fox to go to hell.

Looks like Mitt’s out. Since I’m too lazy to do it myself, can someone go back and dig up all those talking head quotes about how his big religion speech was going to propel him to the nomination?

JoeCHI –I agree with you completely…something is very wrong in the so called progressive blogosphere…and people are slowly getting it…I hope it’s not too late because what kmdala is saying isn’t being reported anywhere…yet the blogs are supposed to not filter the news…how sad it is.
Thanks kmdala…for a little reality check.

I’m thinking Dobson coming out on tuesday saying under no circumstance will he vote for crazy train was a last ditch effort to save Williard. Failed miserably that.

MSNBC has become as bad as Fox and yet no uproar

Have to disagree there on both counts. MSNBC has KO and Rachel Maddow, and invites progressive speakers on the air, Fox would never do this.

And as for “no uproar” are we reading the same blog? Because I hear plenty of criticism of Matthews, Russert, etc.

Think Progress:

Romney to reportedly drop out of presidential race. GOP sources are saying that Mitt Romney will suspend his presidential bid. He is expected to make the withdrawal announcement today at CPAC.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com.....ng_ou.html

Oh, it does happen. As a matter of fact, I remember a column of his from November 1998, where he….um…

No, no…I guess not that one.

Let me get back to you on that.

What is it with wingnut trolls and apostrophes?

“From both a movement and a practical perspective, colossally stupid.”

Colossally correct.

OF COURSE she wants to go on Fox News. She’s much more conservative than he is. She’s Ann Coulter’s choice!

Murdoch hasn’t held fundraisers for Obama, yet he has for Sen. Clinton.

-G

Yeah just saw a “Breaking News” announcement on AP News…but no report. Mitt will likely announce his withdrawal (or suspension) later today in a News Conference.

“I’ve decided to spend more time with my money family.”

Really? Would love that clip.

Snake handlers just hate him, don’t they?

Both should be tough enough to go on Fox.

they could appear on fox if fox did not have the rights to the footage and would have to buy any clip they used

if that were the case they can appear on fox

msn is not fox, to make a good analogy you would have to use air america

and ya, if the republicans want to debate on air america then I think the democrats could debate on fox

so that’s the test, get the repubs to debate on air america and then there should be a deal

per cnn update email

mitt romney just ”suspended his campaign”

this was a drive-by—hope all are well…….

Katherine Jean Lopez has been put on suicide watch.

-G

ROMNEY GONE

Blue Texan

MSNBC is pure propaganda…so is CNN to a much lesser degree. I actually heard Anderson Cooper say that Hillary voted for the AUMF and Obama VOTED against it. And they kept saying it. But MSNBC lies constantly. Hannity and Colmes is more fair minded than anything on MSNBC. Alan Colmes is excellent compared to anyone on MSNBC except for Abrams.

Mitt Romney is dropping out per MSNBC. Suspending or withdrawal from Presidential race.

And Fox on shiny paper, the Weekly Standard

And the goddam Journal

And the NY Post and Sun

Bought and paid for, Jane. She’s pWned.

HRC made this decision a long, LONG time ago, when she allowed herself to be bought and paid for by Rupert Murdoch.

Of course you remember us netroots booing her at YearlyKos as she weaseled and avoided the question about media reform, since Murdoch had given her a massive donation. Right in that moment, the hesitant sidestepping of the question, she telegraphed that she’d be Murdoch’s little gopher puppet, popping up next to the podium upon her master’s demand.

What a foolish woman, to think she can master the monster. I hate to think I am going to have to vote for the least of evils this November.

agree.

Romney to reportedly drop out of presidential race. GOP sources are saying that Mitt Romney will suspend his presidential bid. He is expected to make the withdrawal announcement today at CPAC.

damn it!

I wanted him to spend another 50 million of his own money before he dropped out…that would help the economy and all

Sorry, Jane. This time I don’t buy the uproar. Both Obama and Hillary appear on Fox. He even agreed to go on Bill O’Reilly’s show. Nor - as other commentators have noted - is MSNBC that much better than Fox.

The real issue is that he’s refusing more debates now that is down to two of them. But once again progressive blogs will give him cover by making Fox the issue.

It’s going to be really hard for Dobson, Coulter, Limbaugh, and others to back away from some of the statements that they’ve been making about McCain, don’t you think? There hasn’t been much gray area in what they’ve been saying.

To accept an invitation to debate on Fox, legitimizes this propaganda machine as being a “news” orginization.

uh-oh — this’ll get lost in the Mittster news, but just in case BushCo hasn’t dumbed down the next generation enough, Bush budget cuts funding for Reading is Fundamental. Would kill RIF.

’splain that one to the First Librarian, you s.o.b.

say goodnight, Mitt

Hillary goes on Pox a lot. Obama shut them out for year. I was disappointed to see he did do an interview for Pox recently though, breaking the streak. Perhaps Obama was sending them a message.

I am inclined to agree.

Hee haw.

Kool Aid anyone?

-G

You know…if Obama was smart he’d simply say…well lets have regional debates. We’ll do one for the Potomac area, one for the Northwest, one for La. Mississippi, and Texas and one for Ohio/Indiana. Local stations…not national.

Or he could point out that the last debate had such high ratings that he really preferred not to be a walkin’-talkin’ ATM for Fox.

Good morning,
Serious question-Is there not a majority of democrats in the USA all over the map. Did we not win both the 2000 and the 2004 (technically). Won’t those votes transfer to Barak, or Hillary plus the people who have been energized by this campaign, newly enthusiastic to cast their vote, is the south so crucial to that vote. And when people hear what John McCain has to say will they really be willing to live through more of what I can only term a nightmare of terror 24/7 365X8. Without getting into specifics-because I haven’t that information.

Well, FWIW, I believe he is a constituent of hers. I may not like him but given our political system, I can understand why a politician might accept fund raising support from someone with whom they do not have a lot in common.

lily @ 15 - you’re kidding right? Alan Colmes couldn’t debate himself out of a high school gym.

Words mean nothing, nothing to them anyways.

-G

If Joe Klein told two truths a day, guaranteed, I might actually read something of his — if, say, I was in jail and it was either that or re-examining a scab or something.

Another in a series of misteps, starting with Iraq, by Senator Clinton.

I have to go back to work.

Absolutely. Keep wondering if they really would sit out the election if HRC is the candidate. Could their disdain for crazy train really be enough for them to encourage folks not to vote against HRC?

Where did these trollish Clinton partisans come from? Are there really another fourteen of this one somewhere?

Yucks from T. Tomorrow:

http://www.villagevoice.com/ne.....422,9.html

sangemon….so sock pockets are those that don’t agree with you? I don’t think you realize how much you are alienating other Democrats (not that you care)…the so called progressive blogs have become intolerant and myopic. These days I end up at those few sites that actually are progressive and intelligent…theleftcoaster.com correntewire.com dailyhowler.com talkleft.com The list is small…a sad comment on the state of progressive blogs…which have deteriorated into self reverential group think.

and other literacy funding (e.g. adult literacy, ESOL programs are either being cut or held at last years levels)

I loved this Onion piece — a local FOX affiliate Terror-Alert Van.

Note the sign on the back — “Honk If You See Terror Happening.”

http://www.theonion.com/conten.....uts_terror

On Clinton’s claim that MoveOn is helping Obama fund raise unfairly putting her at a disadvantage, I just received my secong? fund raising letter from Emily’s list for her. Goose-Gander.

I would like us to use caution before calling other commenters trolls. We are going to have some spectacular disagreements before this election is thru, hope it can stay civil.

Romney quit so these cowardly fucking democrats won’t surrender.

Clinton supporters have become trolls? Excuse me.

Wasn’t Fox the network that ran with that story about Obama’s schooling in Kenya that was not only false, but unverified too? Are they trying to propose a scenario that Obama would knowingly reject, then criticize him for?

I consider Fox to be Goebbels, Inc. and didn’t like HRC agreeing to them, regardless. I hope they agree to debate on the others. I also don’t like the whole “money is speech” ruling and think public finance is the only real answer. In the meantime, I had already contributed a bit to Obama and now contributed a bit to HRC. Silly as it is, I hate to see money as the deciding factor.

Point taken. Wrong term. Maybe “sock puppets”. Or self-proliferating nanocommenters.

cdalygo

You have it exactly right. A good excuse to avoid more debates…and now the left is in on that too. Now what is their reason exactly? It’s OK that Obama and Clinton appear and be interviewed on Fox…but debates cross the line? They have gone off the deep end here.

TPM has an article showing this was completely false and made-up by Team Clinton. MoveOn is releasing their numbers today, so whatever they raised will be on top of the $7 million that was raised directly through Obama’s site in the last 48 hours.

From both a movement and a practical perspective, colossally stupid.

I disagree. Given the overwhelming rejection of Hillary (as measured by the various straw polls done at Daily Kos) by the “movement” I don’t think Hillary is, or should be, too concerned about their take on this. From a practical perspective it gets her one on one with Obama where her superior grasp of issues comes through.

Does Obama even talk to the folks from Faux? I thought he had sort of boycotted them after they made the “Hussein” play on his name.

What’s next for HRC, going on Rush and trying to convince him that she only knew Vince Foster tangentially? Sheesh, Hillary what are you thinkin’?

Not speaking for others but I do believe there are enough policy issue differences between the two that this really is a non-issue in my mind.

Do I watch Fox? No

Do I think they are a shining example of outstanding journalism? No

But they are on the scene. They do have millions of viewers that are potential voters and as such, I can’t fault a candidate for wanting to reach voters. And I do believe either Senator Clinton or Senator Obama are strong enough and intelligent enough to not let themselves be sandbagged by Hume/Wallace/et al.

And beyond everything else, don’t forget that Fox has the feed rights for the Convention this summer. We might be better served to acknowledge them now just because of the mischief they can do. Not saying they would but…

Gee what kind of people name call those who don’t agree with them… hum…

Serious question-Is there not a majority of democrats in the USA all over the map. Did we not win both the 2000 and the 2004 (technically).

There is not a majority of Democrats in the USA, but Dems make up the largest party (Rethugs and Independents combined total a larger number). Gore received a more total votes than Bush in 2000, but Kerry did not in 2004.

Diane….is that something you heard from the blogs. Quite to the contrary, he’s excellent…and so is his radio show. There is no one on MSNBC as good..nor on CNN.

I love this idea. Makes the issues discussed more regional and applicable to folks.

I take it back. But there’s got to be some kind of bar for integrity. Defending FOX as no worse than the other major media is stretching it.

Clinton can maybe be forgiven for sacrificing a principle of Democratic solidarity under such tactical and financial duress in a fight for her political life, but come on…

…after all, Obama has done the same thing.

Obama, Huckabee Fare Best;
FOX Is Most Balanced (not a typo)
TV election news has been hardest on Hillary Clinton this fall, while Barack Obama and Mike Huckabee have been the biggest media favorites, according to a new study by the Center for Media and Public Affairs (CMPA) at George Mason University. The study also found that Fox NewsChannel’s evening news show provided more balanced coverage than its counterparts on the broadcast networks.

http://www.cmpa.com/

I switched between those networks also, in addition to BBC America. IMO, BBC America covered the Super Tuesday primaries better than any of the rest.

The truth is that this is utterly strategic on both their parts. It has nothing to do really with Fox. Hillary needs to stay in front of people because over the next month it’s simply going to be dismal for her in the media.On February 9th you have Louisiana and Nebraska. The fear is that Louisiana will be more like Alabama than Arkansas…and Nebraska will be Iowa or Kansas.

Maine appears to have a large Obama contingent…highly energized…and those are caucuses.

Then comes the Potomac triad of DC, Maryland and Virginia. The Clintonistas have practically ceded those races to Obama on Feb 12.On Feb. 19th are caucuses in Washington, Wisconsin and Hawaii. Not as many Hispanics in Washington (in fact blacks outnumber them) and lots of young, well-educated types that appear motivated to support Obama. Wisconsin may trend to Obama as did Iowa and Minnesota. Hawaii - Obama is sort of a “native son” there.

Clinton supporters say that they are looking ahead to March…to Ohio and Texas. But that would be a month were primary-after-primary might be Clinton losses. That could sap momentum and take her face out of the media.
Obama may be able to gain local delegates by spending more time in those states on an individual basis.

But debates on nationwide TV could serve another purpose for Hillary. It gives her a chance to be seen by the Super-Delegates on a par with Obama and thus balance out some of those February losses.

Superior grasp of issues? Hillary has avoided direct questions from moderators and the public about the long term effects of her 5 year ‘freeze’ on mortgage rates. I don’t know if she has even thought about it or is unwilling to tell everyone because she just doesn’t answer the question. Oh and exactly how are we going to enforce the mandatory insurance law again? Wage garnishments? Again, no straight answers. She has a command of buzzwords, but is not very forthcoming with honest answers when it doesn’t suit her to do so.

What is the point of this and like arguments? FOX has said “oops, my bad” and after the past decade of behavior they’re now to be treated as objective dispensers of news? It’s a worthy long-term end in itself to attack and diminish this network.

No, a sock puppet is someone who invades a comment thread and posts trollish comments under multiple pseudonyms, often commenting on their own comments, in an effort to disrupt the thread.

Another in a series of misteps, starting with Iraq, by Senator Clinton.

Unfortunately she’s tin-eared the way Bush Sr. was. Bush was entirely dependent on advisors to tell him how to interpret the current political climate. Remember his famous gaffe in a Chicago supermarket? He was impressed with scan technology which at the time was anything but new.

Clinton doesn’t understand the problem with Fox News, just as she didn’t understand the uproar her vote for the war caused. She still doesn’t understand it! Bill reads politics better than Hillary, and when he made mistakes, he recovered quickly. Hillary isn’t as light on her feet. Ask her about the war vote, she still has traces of a dazed look.

Hillary will never win Alabama either… Sorry but true. The West Midwest will be the battleground this election cycle.

OT- the Mittster on c-span 2, about to suspend his campaign at CPAC.

Jane,

Off topic, hope you see this, I’ll try to get this out. Th