Do Barack and Hillary differ significantly on eco-issues? Before I started research for this post, I thought not – but the data changed my mind. What’s important here, however, is what you decide, not what I decide. Here’s some info as you make your own decisions about the Senators as eco-candidates.
The next American President (the First Anthropocene President) will be one of many chosen for their promises about hot air, but the first to admit it during the camapign – at least in public.
Both Sen Clinton and Sen Obama have released detailed positions on energy and climate. Even the likely Repug nominee Sen McCain (R- Napalm Family Values Explosive Personality Disorder) has plans to mitigate climate change.
Yay us! We greenie progressives finally won – right?
EarthFirst! and RAN can take down the tree sits, the Sierra Club can unplug their phone banks, the Mountain Justice Summer coalition has saved Appalachia, Greenpeace can climb off the smokestacks, Sea Shepherd stopped Japan’s whale slaughter, the PANNA people can break bread free of pesticides, the direct action folks can cancel Recreate ’68 and the RNC Welcoming Committee, the OCA can celebrate GMO-free fields, the BFC and Yellowstone’s buffalo are safe….all is good with Gaia – right?
Well, a Gaian can hope.
Actually, with either Clinton or Obama’s policies, the living world still loses – as do our families and children. With McCain’s policies, we and the rest of the biosphere perish even sooner.
[Of course the above assumes the votes cast determine who wins. Four more years of the Shrub/Darth coup kills the biosphere - and us - even sooner.]
As a McCain presidency – elected or Diebolded – is too hideous to contemplate, I’ll just focus on the two Dems.
Gee – comparing the two candidates’ eco-positions…aren’t you a little late, Kirk?
After all, the League of Conservation Voters compares the Clinton/Obama eco/energy policies (see voter guide) as well as C‘s & O‘s voting records.
Grist compares Obama and Clinton on the environment, reviews Hillary’s and Barak’s detailed energy plans, and also has a nifty voter guide.
Alternet draws on these and other sources to make a very helpful comparison of all the (active) candiates’ words and votes on carbon emissions, fuel efficiency, energy/consumption/renewables, and coal, biofules, and nuclear energy.
So – uh – what’s left to say?
All the sources cited above have done careful, detailed work, and I’ve gratefully drawn on all them for this post. Yet – perhaps because i’m a shrink – I keep one ear open for what isn’t in the room.
Or maybe I’m just listening for voices.
As many others have observed, save for the one (Grist-sponsored) Pres debate on global warming, the MSM debates have been a "dead zone" for eco-issues; the questions almost wholly excluded enviro topics.
The MSM’s pathetically narrow Pres debate eco-coverage both reflects and maintains the exclusion of all but the most "investor-friendly" environmental topics from nearly all US broadcast media…as well as from nearly all Congressional debate.
Whole lotta voices don’t get heard.
In the race for First Anthropocene President, I focus on:
- Climate change/energy
- Toxic subsidies
- Toxic substances/Precautionary Principle
- Toxic mutants (GMO foods/crops)
I) Climate change / Energy:
- both reduce carbon gases by 80% as of 2050
- Clinton better on fuel economy than Obama
- both (now) support auctioned carbon caps (inferior to carbon tax)
- both support coal-to-liquid fuel (a nightmare), but only if impossible conditions are met
– both punted on carbon tax
Yep. They both punted on the carbon tax. You saw that right – they did wrong. Big planet cooking wrong. Sadly for them – tragically for the biosphere – both Dem candidates rolled over for Big Energy…by surrendering our most powerful tool to stop carbon gases: the carbon tax.
Pathetic. Lethal. Opportunistic. Craven.
(and we’re not even half way to spelling "politician". Give me an "A" – ambitious. Give me an "N" – narcissist. Give me a "T" – tendentious. Give me an "I"….)
These wanna-be Leaders of The Free World are too weak to even begin the policy fight with demands for the carbon tax – the tool we must have to pry the coal monkey off our back.
II) Toxic Subsidies:
Let’s look at subsidies/give-aways for: Big Ag, Big Energy / Carbon, and Big Minerals
On Big Ag / Farm Bill –
Both subsidize 60 billion gallons of biofules (ethanol) by 2030: a terrible, deadly mistake.
On Energy:
With Big Ethanol both sell out – Obama far more quickly, and hence more consistently. Obama appears to have been more of a sell-out to the Carbon Lords than Clinton – and is the clear winner in selling out to Big Coal.
Obama sold out to the Ethanol Party and the Carbon Lords on the Rethugs’ 2005 energy bill.
Clinton and Obama differed most famously on the 2005 energy bill that helped pad the profits of oil and gas companies while expanding ethanol use. … Clinton adopted the consensus liberal stance against that bill, which Obama backed….
In the January debate, Clinton slammed Obama’s sell-out to Big Ag and the Coal Lords.
You know, the energy bill that passed in 2005 was larded with all kinds of special interest breaks, giveaways to the oil companies. Senator Obama voted for it. I did not because I knew that it was going to be an absolute nightmare. Now we’re all out on the campaign trail talking about taking the tax subsidies away from the oil companies, some of which were in that 2005 energy bill.
Yet only a few months earlier, Clinton herself turned around and embraced ethanol subsidies… in time for the Iowa caucuses.
So in the January debate, Obama then slammed her….for having opposed ethanol subsidies before she came over to his (shameful, opportunistic) "stance" on the issue.
America. What a country! … for the corporatists.
On Mining:
Obama keeps hope alive for Big Mining – opposes reform of the 1872 Mining Act. Shows the audacity of a real preservatonist – the Mining Act has protected Big Metals since 1872. And keeps on protecting – stopping the revision allows Big Mining to keep avoiding clean-up responsibility…and avoiding royalty payments.
In opposing the revision, Obama supports continuing huge passive subsides (by not collecting royalties and by "externalizing" costs of clean-up/pollution through dumping them on locals and taxpayers). Who gets this big prize? The folks rich enough to own gold, silver, and uranium mines (and all other non-coal mines) on public lands.
Sen Clinton is merely vague and non-committal on Mining Act reform. Hardly reassuring….simply not definitively awful.
I’m not going to prejudge it.
Wow – what statesmanship. What steely resolve.
Sigh.
III) Toxic Substances/Precautionary Principle
Obama sold out the nation – and his state – on leaks from nuke plants. Clinton sold out the rural Northeast – and enviros – by pushing to allow mega logging corp International Paper to fire up an incinerator for a "test" burn. Nuclear contamination is effectively forever. The incinerator burned tires – generating awful persistant organic pollutants. POP’s hang around the world for decades; once in our bodies, they stay for life – unless we pass them on through breastfeeding. Nuke wastes can hang around for millenia; once in our bodies, radioactive heavy metals tend to stay until we die.
In the two cases above, both Dems caved in to the corporatists and their money: Obama’s sell-out is far more dangerous than Clinton’s.
In the bigger eco-picture, both candidates fail to put Americans first – neither candidate restores to us the rights taken from us by the chemical industries. At this time, Big Chemistry hides deadly compounds behind body counts: their beloved little products are treated as though molecules have rights. We living people have to suffer and die before a toxic chemical is pulled from the market. The precautionary principle reverses this: the pp demands that chemicals/technologies be shown to be safe before they are ever released into the world – and into our bodies.
I can’t find any legislation either has intoduced to make the precautionary principle the basis to protect us and our communities from toxic substances. As championing the pp will attract a lot of industry flack, I guess I’m beyond surprise that both major Dem candidates fail at this. Yet I’m still disappointed.
IV) Toxic mutants (GMO foods/crops)
Once again, both candidates fail the precautionary principle here. GMO’s are released into the environment based on a decree from Dan Qualyle asserting that GMO’s are the same as natural organisms. This is faith, not science. In the biological world, the GMO soy, corn and potatoes already released onto the market cause sickness and death in lab animals. No one has measured what they do to us.
Neither candidate has demanded that GMO’s stay in the lab unless they can be shown not to harm us. Obama has stated he favors labelliing GMO foods – but has not introduced legislation to accomplish that. Clinton hasn’t even stated she favors labelling GMO foods.
Neither candidate appears to have taken any actual steps as legislators to protect us from GMO’s: no longer surprisiing, but still sad.
Summary:
Both candiates moved to adopt the positions on global warming and carbon gases Sen Edwards put forth. Both candidates failed to call for the carbon tax Sen Dodd supported. Both caved to ethanol subisides. Obama still looks for money for a mega "clean coal" demo project in his state; Clinton is not seeking such subsidies. Both caved to megapolluters: Clinton’s sell-out on an incinerator test appears less lethal than Obama gutting Federal legislation establishing standards for reporting "leaks" of nuclear material. Both candidates are AWOL (absent without legislation) on the precautionary principle and on GMO’s.
So what’s an eco-voter to do?
When I started this review, I didn’t expect I would end up finding either candidate seemed better than the other on eco-issues. Regular FDL readers have good reason to know I’m not fond of either Obama or Clinton; over a dozen years working on enviro issues has left me with little love (and less respect) for most Federal politicians. Regular FDL readers – like all other sentient beings – also know either candidate will be infinitely better for the biosphere and us than would any of the Rethug Prez candidates.
But – for what it’s worth – after days of reviewing their eco-policies, I’m convinced Hillary Clinton is the better candidate on environmental issues.
Of course, YMMV. Bon appetit!


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Oy Vey.
Kirk what a post
Yay! Another Kirk Murphy post! Now back to read it all.
Kirk, you make too much sense, Thank you for your caring.
Looks like you’ve focused mostly on issues related to energy and environmental toxins. What about issues like habitat conservation, biodiversity, endangered species? I don’t have a clue how Clinton differs from Obama in those areas.
Good post. A couple of comments.
I disagree that the carbon tax is superior to cap and trade. In theory the carbon tax is a more efficient and simpler way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. However politically it is toxic. It is not easy to project how much emissions will be reduced by a tax. Just look at how much Americans continue to drive despite the increase in gasoline prices. I don’t think it is politically realistic to expect politicians to vote over and over again for new taxes to get emissions down to the required levels. In fact John Dingell, recognizing the political problem with a carbon tax, threatened to propose one earlier this year when he was trying to derail Nancy Pelosi’s attempt pass a climate bill. A cap and trade approach has difficulties but it does provide more certainty in reducing emissions.
In terms of dealing with toxic substances, one practical thing the candidates could do is agree to update our chemical law regulating industrial chemicals. The current law, the Toxic Substances Control Act, puts the burden on the EPA to prove a chemical causes harm. This in turn requires EPA to persuade or pass regulations requiring the chemical industry obtain the necessary test data to assess the hazard and risk associated with a chemical. The Europeans have recently adopted a different approach. Their approach, by law, puts the burden on the chemical industry to prove their chemicals are safe.
I suspect John McCain is not concerned with ecosystems.
As for HRC being the best environmental candidate. That my be true. I don’t know.
One thing I do know, is that the Iraq War has dumped untold tons of extra pollution into the air and groundwater.
Want a friendlier president to the health of our planet? Vote Democratic next November. That’s something I am sure of.
In this house… we are tree huggers.
Jeez. Great post. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting to put this together for us. This is important to know.
Thanks for the informative post. We have a lot of work to do to get our next president to move off some of these issues. I’m off to make a list.
If we don’t do something, and fast, to check CO2, nothing else will matter. Have you noticed ‘weird’ weather in your area over the last seven years or so? We have.
It’s really great to read informative posts like this one and the one yesterday by looseheadprop that go beyond some of the shiny happy rhetoric — of the Obama campaign especially — and investigate the real issues and the two candidates positions on them…. Keep it up!
We are too. Literally. I’ve heard my son apologizing to ferns that he stepped on accidently in the woods.
Nice.
Lahoma
Yes. Warmer winters – a cold snap used to be 20 to 25 below, for several weeks. Now we haven’t had much below zero. Bigger storms, absolutely scary electrical storms in summer, torrential rains; in winter, warmer, later snow, and then feet upon feet of it.
So, we are moving slightly off the platform of total denial? What will it take to wake people up?
You said what I was thinking.
Thank You Kirk, for the “heavy lifting”.
I’m sure that this post took a lot of researching, reading and discerning.
I’ll use this post as a starting point for my discussion du jour with my 20 year old son, the Obamasupporter.
‘Course he’s even more idealistic than his mom. And, that gives me a moment of pause.
It’s always a Perspective Thingy when he and I engage.
This man will attempt to abuse Mother Earth even more than Bush has tried to do. We have to prevent him from doing that.
AP – John McCain effectively sealed the Republican presidential nomination on Thursday as chief rival Mitt Romney suspended his faltering campaign. “I must now stand aside, for our party and our country,” Romney told conservatives.
An earthquake?
Living fairly close to the San Andreas Fault, all this climate change makes me Very Nervous.
Which reminds me, I’ve got to replenish my back up water supplies.
We are environmentalists in this house first. All else comes after.
First, do no harm, and
Honor thy Mother are phrases which come to mind.
(Hugs to Lahoma, too.)
Hello demi…
kiddo is on one of the pc’s downstairs and I’m on the laptop upstairs. We like your stuff.
L.
We support Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton for next November.
We have been asking ourselves that very question for some time now.
Goodie.
At my last house, the front yard was huge and over the years I planted a bunch of trees, mostly eucalyptus and different pines.
I had a favortie Eucalyptus who was the oldest, and had a huge trunk.
I had a really big, flat granite rock at her base, and whenever I was feeling “ungrounded”, I’d stand barefoot on the rock with my arms around her trunk.
It was holy.
No looney tree hugger here. Ha!
Obama/Edwards would be nice…
The one thing I do know for certain is that any Repug candidate will but profits first. Profits come before the Constitution, democracy and the environment. That is my only certainty.
Now, when it comes to the Dems, I need to remain very active to make certain they get advice from intelligent advisers regarding environmental issues. With wise guidance, a president can make good decisions. That person can influence Congress. I don’t expect the person to be the master of every issue but I do expect them to thoughtfully study the issues and seek wise advice.
Imagine how different our energy policies would have been if Cheney included reputable scientists instead of self-serving capitalists with the likes of Ken Lay as part of his team.
Either Hillary or Obama can be effective if they commit to wise advisers.
BTW, two of Feingold/Dodd amendments to FISA failed today, and, Bond/Rockefeller amendment passed… We’re being sold down the river…
Gawd I love the smell of Eucalyptus. There used to be a lot of those trees in Napa and Sonoma County, Cali. A place we both spent a bit of our childhoods.
That’ll work just fine CTuttle. ;0)
I’m home, sick today and your comment reminded me that when I lived at the lostsatrees house, when I was sick I used to cut up a pile of Eucalyptus leave into a big, hot bath and soak.
Well, I could take a walk around the neighborhood and do a little “snatching”.
But aren’t Eucalyptus bad for native flora?
Thanks, CT – I’ve been running errands and listening to classical music to replenish my soul so I missed this. I am not surprised. Do you supppose the deal made was adding tax rebates to the elderly and veterans in exchange for the FISA passage and defeat of Dodd?
Hey, why are you slamming Obama? What is this, some kind of Clinton campaign blog?
Just kidding! Nice post!
In what way?
I had a bunch of different things growing, tho I stuck to mainly indigenous stuff, and everything thrived.
ps…do I count as “native flora”?
Is it asking too much for the OP to actually spell Obama’s first name correctly?
The US presently imports 66% of its annual oil consumption. The Clintons energy proposal is improved house insulation and lower emission cars. That’s it folks.
How much did our dependence on foregn oil increase when the Clintons were last in the White House? What did the Clintons attempt to do to decrease our dependence on foreign oil when they were last in the White House? What do they propose do about our dependence on foreign oil in 2009? The US presently has 3% of the world’s proven oil reserves.
They drink a lot of water I believe. But if everything else was working according to schedule, that wouldn’t be a problem. I think.
The NYT story on the Obama ties to the Nuclear Power Industry got *crickets* from the Corporate Media:
(snip)
(snip)
Ya left out LIHEAP, too… Could be, but, we need to work on Pryor, Landrieu, Inouye, Carper, Bayh, and last but not least, Jello Jay… Oh, Obama voted and Hill was absent for FISA…
I see you are on top of things. As usual. ;0)
True, especially in areas where they were planted alongside indigenous plants. San Bruno Mountain between San Francisco and San Mateo Counties was such as area. The trees destroyed the native plants which was the feeding ground for indigenous butterflies.
People would think they were being nice and they would scatter bags of wild flower seeds that suffocated the native plants. They did not intend harm, they just didn’t know. I thought it was sad that education regarding the San Bruno Mountain suffered from such a limited budget. Several of us used to volunteer and dig up all plants that were not native. It was an immense project.
Dr. Kirk, I don’t comment here much but I do read many posts and comments. Thank you for the thoughtful, informative post. I wish I would have had this information sooner, as it would have made my voting decision on Tuesday much easier than it was. I am an avid gardener who uses only organics (close to ocean being major concern) to avoid harming our planet and appreciate your perspective on environmental issues.
The weather pattern changes have resulted in a lot of snow in the West. I was in Aspen Co, yesterday, and they have had the most snow since 1980. Drove the Jackson Wy, snowed all the way. They have had seven feet of snow in two weeks. Will check out Kirk’s Yellowstone Buffalo this weekend.
The same is true in the Pacific Northwest. My family lives there and they have had record snowfall in 3 of the past 5 years.
McCain has other worries right now. He was booed at CPAC today because the most important quality in a presidential candidate is the unwavering adhearance to conservative dogma. If McCain was smart, he’d just pretend like Bush does. Bush proved that CPAC people don’t mind being tricked as long as you recite the correct verses from their dogma.
sounds like neither would be acceptable. What a surprise?
I have a problem with what is otherwise an admirable effort to research the two candidates. You repeatedly make the conclusory statement that they “sold out.” In my book, that is a synonym for corruption, and I think statements like that should not be made lightly without explaining what you mean. You provide links to others, but what does sold out mean to you?
Contrast Hudson’s diary on Kos, where the story of the cement plant is laid out chapter and verse, along with the LaFarge board membership.
One of these people is going to be the nominee I will work for in the fall.
Wow, I’m surprised you were able to make the journey… Gorgeous country all the way… I’ve criss-crossed many of the roads you just traversed… ;-)
The thought in this house is that we are going to cut back on hard-timing Obama or Hillary. We are instead going to unite behind electing a Democrat next November. We view this as the imperative; ridding ourselves of the Republicans. It’s possible we could have a Democratic president, a Democratic Congress and the chance for the appointment of several new justices to the SCOTUS (and the Federal bench). This would among other things, advance the environmental cause. Which for us is paramount. Won’t you please help us in this endeavor?
Must you ask…? 8-)
PLAN!
Hear, hear!!!
Kirk, thanks for the extremely informative post.
I think it safe to say most here at the Lake will be supporting whom ever gets the nod at the Democratic convention,I know I will. No way can this country survive another rethuglian administration. Too much at stake!!
I figure I have to give the next Democratic president some good people he/she can work with in the House and Senate. I make small contributions (very small – limited resources) to their campaigns. In my simple mind basic math works. If one million progressives contribute $5 to each progressive campaign, voila, they have 5M in their coffers. That’s my plan.
I really believe small contributions by many adds up to first class support.
One thing we have to relentlessly point out is that the Republicans:
Condone torture.
Condone domestic spying.
Profit from war.
Love sending other people’s kids off to war.
Don’t care about the poor.
Don’t care that Mother Earth is in major crisis.
They are simultaneously super cheapskates, but spend wildly on their pet projects.
Suffer from “Spiritual Materialism”…holier than thou.
They have destroyed our economy.
They have destroyed the earth.
They have destroyed our government.
And they aren’t planning to leave.
Four wheel drive and snow tires..the drive up Hoback Canyon was heavy snow and 25′ viz. I lived in Jackson Hole for four years and this is the most snow that I have seen.
Kirk Murphy:
Typo in very first line of post: Barack… Now I’ll read he post, which looks fascinating.
My sentiments exactly? Just a little research would verify all you have stated and probably much more. Wish we could deport all the worst ones:>)
You must be feeling better. You’re right about that message. I saw it appear. Weird. I’ll send another one in a few…
We need to once and for all:
Outlaw torture.
Outlaw domestic spying.
Outlaw war-profiteering.
Stop the wars.
Feed and educate the poor.
Provide healthcare for all Americans.
Do everything we can do stop Global Warming.
Maintain separation of Church and State.
Tax job outsourcers.
Tax polluters.
Restore adherence to the Constitutions.
Grow some friggin’ spine.
Oh, yeah…throw the bums out and prosecute.
Refresh your browser and it’s been corrected. Thanks.
“the Constitution”…
I’m feeling only a little better.
Watching Shrek with my kiddo.
Shrek, the first, the best.
:)
I have been on FDL for quite a while now. this is OT but this diary on Kos is pretty distressing.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..829/451754
“Swiftboating on the Firedoglake”
Ive been uncomfortable since the referenced post.
If you get a chance take a look at this pix.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23057136/
I’ve just had an email from upstairs from a V.I.P. inquiring if I have reflected upon being hungry. What she doesn’t know is I put butter beans and smoked ham in the crock pot this morning before we went to work. So it’s butter beans ‘n ham and cornbread by candle light for supper. In a few.
I’m cooking New Orleans style butter beans, too. Wow! Guess great minds think……
I think there are legitimate questions about BO’s connections with Rezko. His answers – I don’t know the guy etc. don’t make things better. This is the presidency we’re talking about. We have a right to take a close look at anyone running – at what they’ve said, what they’ve done, and what they’re not saying about what they’ve done.
The Kos diary? Honestly, the whole get the heck on the bandwagon or you’re an asshole is a bit much.
I’m on board with that, kiddo and lahoma.
There’s plenty to attack both candidates for, particularly the kowtowing to Iowa corn farmers over ethanol.
But I’m not as convinced as you are that cap-and-trade for carbon emissions is so much worse than a straight carbon tax. Properly managed, it can be used to drive those emissions substantially lower, and quickly. Also, I think it could be positioned just as a first step, one that’s going to be much easier to enact than a straight carbon tax (which will be filibustered in the Senate unless the Dems get well over 60 votes, and even then some Dems might join with Republicans to stop it).
Concerning the candidates – clearly they will not take any positions beyond what Kirk has outlined unless the public forces them to. Change in environmental policy is going to have to come from the bottom up, and that’s why I ask what it will take.
Certainly, awareness of the dangers to our global environment seem to be growing, but I’m not sure of that – I live in a place where people are pretty attuned to the natural world to begin with. I have a feeling that much of America is still racing around in big SUVs for numerous trips to the mall.
So, will people have to be terrorized by some kind of environmental meltdown? Can we hasten the education of Americans? Isn’t it true that Europeans are much more aware of the climate crisis than we are?
I agree. Thanks for the link. I have great respect for Looseheadprop, whose explication of the law is always thorough, and well-written. Having said that, I thought her post looked like a hit job. I am glad that someone took her to task on some specifics.
I stopped reading Taylor Marsh until after the campaign is over because I just got tired of the endless shilling for Clinton and attacks on Obama. Both candidates have their problems. I started out supporting Biden, who is the second-poorest person in the Senate. But we are where we are. Clinton has skeezy fundraising and Bill;, Obama has Rezko.
We have both of them, and, in the end, one of them. Since we have to choose between them, my first concern is which one is most likely to win.
Someone above – OK? Lahoma? said that the environmental crisis is the number one issue facing the world. I agree with this. The Constitution won’t mean much if we don’t have a habitable planet.
I hear this, and believe me, I will vote for anyone running against McCain; and yet, for fucks sake, should we just give up on trying to figure out who the BEST candidate is?
The river is polluted too.
Very interesting, and thanks for sifting through the positions of the 2 candidates. Any truth to the rumor that Al Gore is going to endorse Hill? I find it hard to believe that he would get involved in the same manner that the Kennedy’s did, plus there wasn’t much good feeling at the end of Bill’s 2nd term. OTOH, Bill did give him a lot more say than VPs traditionally had before, and if Hill is the better of two poor choices then perhaps Al is willing to give his blessing. But, any democrat would be better than any republican when it comes to the environment, and this should be obvious.
Thank you Kirk for the substance we have been craving, and have been denied by the media.
This has been the best result of the buying and stifling of the media. Rupurt Murdoch? Guess what? You thought you could control what we hear and read? The best phrase that came out of the last few years of media self censorship was “Be the Media” and look what we have: FDL and posters like Kirk Murphy. They tried to stamp out information and it came sprouting up from many sources, stronger and truer than ever. HAH.
Ugh! But, perhaps, for the opposite reason. Keeping Obama in a bubble does no democrat any good. If he has a Rezko problem, and if he is even indirectly mentioned in Fitzgerald’s indictment, then it is best to air and clear it out before the republicans make it their own.
Thanks, I like this place too, I don’t want to imagine grandchildren saying, why didn’t they do something.
Consider this: if Jesus was born today in some regions of the US, he’d have at least a 1:20 chance of genetic disorders due to pollutants picked up in utero. (Think “Erin Brockovitch” if you find this to be news.) His mother, Mary, on the other hand, would have a 1 in 7 chance of developing breast cancer — up from the 1:10 chances of the 1980s.
The ‘Presidential Debates’ have not addressed these problems in any meaningful fashion.
OTOH, Bill Kristol’s yammering about whether Bill helps/hurts Hillary keeps the NoiseMachine at full volume. It’s so much easier to smear Hillary than to bend your brain around how certain kinds of pesticides affect the genetic material of a human cell — including your own.
Meanwhile, both Russia and China face a host of environmentally-based health and fertility problems. Environmental degradation is a symptom of bad government.
Working to improve the environment and public health is at least as ‘American’ as apple pie. Obama needs to wake up.
Thanks enormously for this post!
Connected to my comment from above, that global climate crisis is THE issue; the second issue IMO, is election integrity. We can demand a platform, we can demand change, we can rally round a candidate, we can argue who’s best and get angry and go off in a huff, we can donate, we can pound the streets, write letters, get our neighbors to vote, turn out in record numbers; but if DIEBOLD decides who the president is again, as they did in 2004, we may as well all go spend our time watching Survivor or some such crap.
Thank you, OP.
Wow folks – thanks for your time and interest.
I was off teaching some really great med students today (a small group of six – the best grop I’ve had since I started teaching over a decade ago! woo-hoo!)
Glad to be able to join y’all.
I’ll try and respond to as many comments as possible – in rough chronological order.
Under the Rethugs, really meaningful legislation had no hope of makinng it to a vote; the Senate votes on these topics (before Dem majority in Congress) show Clinton hit the right marks. LCV gives Obama a 96 and Clinton a 91 (on their Senate careers) – but this difference is so close as to meaningless for me. (as of Super Tuesday, LCV still hadn’t completed their comparison of the votes under the Dem majority – but my take is that both candidates are quite similar over that time frame. Harry Reid doesn’t exactly push big enviro issues.
On habitat conservation, their support for the Farm Bill nominally funds habitat conservation (through one of the FB titles). Conversely, their support for the ethanol subsidies drives habitat destruction.
Obama intitally favored coal more than he currently claims to; yet he also keeps pushing to support a huge “demo” project in Illinois that touts “clean coal”.
“Clean coal” is about as likely as “happy torture” – none of the schemes to pump CO2 back inthe ground have been shown viable. On this basis, the wide footprint of coal emissions leads me to conclude Obama will be worse for endangered species.
Moreover, no one wins environmental protection by offering “compromise” as their starting position. On old growth forest, we’ve “compromised” away more than 97% of the (continental) US old growth already. Obama’s diffuse message of hope doesn’t hide the fact that compromise is collaboration on ESA, biodiversity, and habitat.
On these issues, fighting from the start ensures the biggest possible win when one finally sits down to negotiate. I believe Obama’s “kumbaya” tactics will only accelerate devastation in all three areas.
On carbon tax:
No question – superior to cap and trade.
FOr one thing, amny of the “trade” schemes are simply scams. That alone leads me to conclude reliance on cap and trade to preserve our grandchildren makes as much sense as putting their college funds in Countrywide stock.
On an economics basis, the COngressioal Budeget Offcie is quite clear:
As the CBO sez:
A superb post. This is all about the need to put pressure on both candidates very soon. Edwards was so much better than either one. I think one of the debates Hillary proposes should be about global warming, conducted by some people who know the facts, maybe including Al Gore. It has to have lots more exposure than the candidates have given it. At this rate, the planet continues to die.
Our books differ.
Business as usual in the Senate under K Street – legal bribery to support industry (and the knowledge that opposing the Carbon Lobby / Chemical Lobby / Industrial AG Lobby / Mining Lobby brings massive sanctions at the next election) and then choosing to support wealthy megacorps at the expense of our health, our lives, and a sustainable biosphere – business as usual is “selling out”. And (a subset of) corruption – but the sort that our corporate controlled DOJ and Federal Courts don’t consider illegal.
In my book, corruption has two subsets:
illegal bribery
legal bribery.
I agree with (what I think is) your point that I’m not describing the form of corruption which is illegal bribery.
To me, prostitution is prostituion: it may be legal in Nevada and Amsterdam, illegal elsewhere – but it’s all prostitution.
As is almost all of the US Senate’s relationship with Big Carbon, Big Chemical, Big Ag, etc.
Our “represenatives” regularly vote against our health (and future generations’) in favor of the
economic objectivesgreed of the corporatists’ main constituents. To me, that’s corrupt – even if legal.Late to the party, but I’m going to quibble with one of your issues.
Is corn ethanol a boondoggle? Absolutely. But alcohol fuels are not. And the only way we will have flex-fuel vehicles (which can burn any alcohol fuel, not just ethanol) on the road and tanks capable of holding alcohol fuels is if take this opportunity.
With a market (flex fueled vehicles) and infrastructure (alcohol capable pipelines and tanks), a whole lot of decent alternatives become available that otherwise would never, ever see the light of day.
You can make methanol out of damn near anything (possibly including posts at the Corner). Support it, and then grab the good end of the stick. Open the market to alternatives. After all, turning stuff into alcohol is not exactly rocket science.
Gordon, welcome!
I’m late, too!
Asessing the eco-footprint of any form of alcohol fuel requires specification of the feedstocks. Without knowing where the methanol comes from, one can’t determine how the methanol contributes (or not) to global warming, habitat destruction, or other advese eco-imapcts.
I couldn’t agree more! In my post I discussed the precautionary principle – the basis for the EU approach yuo describe.
I sincerely appreciate your comment – it helps me see that I did not describe the pp and the protective power it confers with sufficient clarity.
Again, thank you.
A UNH study says that .01 of our current agricultural land could produce enought algae based biofuel to replace oil without any conservation measures. And it doesn’t have to be agricultural land to do it. They based it on biodiesel (and the diesel alternatives are better than the gas alternatives), but methanol is now about $2.00 per gasoline equivalent ($1 per gallon, half as efficient), and that’s without any market deforming subsidies. Our sewage processing plants could be profit centers.
Wow GordonM – that is truly interesting (and solar-driven microbial energy production really appeals to me for a host of reasons).
The prospect of using non-ag land is also appealing.
If you can post a linky at your leisure, I’d be most grateful.
Again – thanks.
PS – if you could expound on the following, that would help me follow you. Although (IIRC) methanol carries less available energy per unit (wt? volume?) I still can’t puzzle out:
UNH paper.
Methanol is a bit over 50% as much energy by volume as gasoline. Ethanol is about 70%. There are some exotic alcohols that get close to 100% by volume, but volume production is unproved (we’ve been doing methanol and ethanol for thousands of years – anyone can do it).
Although there’s a good deal to be suspicious about (particularly his affiliations), you should check out this and this. I’m not sure his motivations are on the up and up (he’s an associate of Gaffney, the notorious neocon), but with a couple exceptions, most of it checks out (my post sucks, because in my head I was replying to the wrong people – someday I’ll try again).
Alvord, excellent comment!
At some point in the past few months, the Economist had an article on the fact that in order to meet EU standards, companies would be required to meet their standards.
Once, the US was a leader.
Now, thank heavens for the EU!
But your point is excellent, and the EU’s actions would make it easier for a US politician to ‘lead’ by at least making this nation comply with European standards. The EU has now altered the economic incentives of chemical sales; you don’t meet our new standards? We don’t buy from you.
Simple.
Workable.
Sorry for being unclear @95; must be late and I’m tired ;>]
The Economist noted that the changes in EU regulations for chemical sales were changing the economics of chemical companies. If you want to sell in Europe, you have to meet their standards and do the testing they require. Once that’s completed, you can provide the same info to other nations — including the US. It won’t cost the companies any more, because they’ve already spent the R&D and ‘testing’ budgets to be able to meet the European standards.
In other words, America is falling behind.
Europe is leading.
But Europe’s leadership on this issue is beneficial to us all.
readerOTL and Alvord:
I’d so love to see the US adopt those EU regs – we discussed them at length here when
Thanks to you both for drawing attention to this.
Not sure if you are still around. And truth in advertising climate change and cap-and-trade markets is my trade :-)
CBO speaks about economic efficiency. True that carbon tax would be more economically efficient. If one were ever to be put in place, especially one that was to fall at the right level in the supply chain. Gore tried pushing the carbon tax. Not so successful.
You look at the results from the cap and trade program for SO2? Phenomenal success. You’ve also noted that each of the candidates advocate an auction. This is probably a pretty obscure point for most people, but auction rather than grant of credits says a lot about who really takes the hit for the cost of control.
Yes, to set the best cap, you need to know as much as you can about the “optimal” level of pollution to allow (your “cap”). Carbon tax allows you to say “I don’t know but I’m willing to add this amount of cost to the system”. What the actual amount emitted under the tax is thus an unknown outcome of how the economy responds.
This is important for how the US would interact with the Kyoto protocol (or its successor) because each country gets assigned an emission level. How would you propose to incorporate the uncertain result of a carbon tax into signing onto the Kyoto Protocol.
In any case, good post. Thing that most concerns me is the Mining Act.
I’ve evaluated business plans looking to make energy from algae. They are mostly POS.
Sparkatus, thanks for your kingd assessment!I completely agree on the importance of auctions – wanted to discuss in the post but it was already too long.
With carbon cap & trade, I’m very concerned that bogus carbon credits will undermine the whole system. (sea shepherd has their eye one bogosity; the “tree-planting” credits [depending on bioregion] may well be yet another. Did bogus credits surface with SO2, or did SO2 simply allocate the universe of credits among all sources and contract from thre, effectively shuuting the door for bogus offsets?
And – yep – the Mining Act did it for me, too.
oops – left out a line.
I confess I don’t understand the Kyoto mechanisms well enough to hazard an answer to your thoughtful question. If you could say more about the complexitie -or even hazard an answer yourself – I’d appreciate the chance to learn. Thanks!
Quality of credits is very important. There was potential (opportunity has expired) for inclusion of credit that were not allocated to sources. Those “project-based” credits are really where the potential for bogosity :-) comes in. This is a major problem in the carbon world (so called CDM credits have this potential problem).
I don’t think that such credits would truly undermine the system. They might pick at the edges. Procedures in place can vet these project based credits for BS.
Any of the land use and forestry based credits have a real issue of credibility. ie what happens when things change in 10 years and someone decides that they want to cut down your tree farm carbon sequestration project. Whole lot of work has gone into that at the international level.
Well, its tough to reconcile because you are kind of dealing with an apples and oranges problem. [more in a sec]
FYI anderson cooper on CNN talking with Gergen and Zakaria about climate.
These guys are clued out. China is actually kicking our ass on much of this policy. They are pushing clean energy quite strongly.
Maybe I’m too harsh on them. At least they are talking about it. And they cover a range of issues.
somwhere (UK independent) i’ve been reading 30% of US daron gas creation is effectively “offshored” to China’s industyr (but US receives the output via exports…)
I’ve actually had lots of (unpleasant, discouraging) experience around land use issues, forest preservation regs, etc…
My conclusions: at least a Rethug is upfront about their idiot policies; BlueDogs are generally the camel’s nose making its way into the tend, and the Rethugs count on the BlueDogs to provide political coverage and obfuscation. Thus do both parties bend to the will of corporations.
The two factors that I’ve seen make a difference:
1. Education — hard to do, but pays huge dividends.
2. Cost structures that have simple, clear requirements and force corporate entities to pay more of the costs of their activities. We have to get a handle on ‘externalities’, which of course means being politically aware and active. Sigh….