Cornerite Mark Levin is the latest wingnut to diss St. McCain:
To say, from one’s computer keyboard, that the Reagan coalition should unify behind McCain to prevent the specter of a Clinton or Obama presidency is, I believe, wishful thinking. Even here, where the smartest minds are trying to make the case, some use the perverse argument that Reagan wasn’t all that conservative anyway, and that’s a reason to back McCain. Not only does this defy history, but it offends those who lived through that history and were shaped by it. Moreover, Republican voters won’t buy it. McCain is sitting on a one-legged stool, having broken the two other legs.
If St. McCain’s shock troops don’t come from the Village Republicans, the Malkinites or the fundies, where do they come from?
Meanwhile, Carpetbagger finds a nugget in last night’s exit polls:
* “Voters who said they had a ‘negative opinion’ of President Bush’s administration flocked to McCain, who picked them up by wide margins in most states.”
On that last point, one of the top goals of the Dems, in the short and long term, is to connect McCain to Bush — like two peas in a pod.
Yep. Good on Howard Dean for getting that ball rolling last night on MSNBC. Say it with me, everyone. McCain=Bush. McCain=Bush. McCain=Bush.
Related posts:
- Attention Bush Apologists: Reagan Greeted Fallen Americans at an Air Force Base, Idiots
- Election 2009: Election Night Thread #1; Polls Now Closed in VA
- Frank Rich: McCain Was Wrong On Everything. CNN Treats Him As Sage
- Sarah Palin: It’s Not My Fault That We Lost
- McCain Rediscovers His Passion for Screwing Us with Bad Telecom Policy
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BT!
hey
are the corporatists his base?
That picture looks like the cover of a Log Cabin Republican romance novel.
So Crazy train’s base are those wingnuts who just couldn’t bring themselves to sit this one out?
McCain is a Bushie’s excuse to vote Republican in the face of the disasterous consequences of their decision to vote Bush in the last two elections.
They can vote for change without changing anything.
Hatred of
HillaryMcCain is unifying the right.I will never get enough of that picture. It is so perfect.
McCain has said on numerous occasions that the media is his base.
I really worry about what they will do with the two legs of the stool that they broke off.
I mentioned this yestterday but I cannot understand how someone like mark levin has any listeners at all
he sounds like he was castrated before he reached puberty and then someone deviated his septum and nobody could put it straight
I’m confused (probably the result of too much wine during the primary-watching parties that were going on…). People who are negative about Bush FLOCKED to McCain….and now we want to tie McCain to Bush.
So if everyone who has a negative opinion of Bush votes for McCain, he will win in a landslide.
What am I missing here in this logic?
McCain probably learned Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran from Cheney or Bush. Peas in a pod.
hahahahaha hahahahaha
McCain: Even Worse Than Bush
(h/t kiddo)
The MSM has perpetuated the myth that Maverick McCain has opposed Chimpy for 8 years.
Strip the bark off that bastard and you open up a significant wound in McCain’s support.
McCain’s base is MSNBC. I think the “M” stands for McCain, but it might also stand for Mysogynist.
In some ways it is worse than FOX.
Yeah, I’m confused by why W haters would love McCain.
Considering McCain’s 100 year war stance on Iraq, how do those folks who say they are dissatisfied with Bush justify voting for Crazy train?
the media speakers are not the republicans though, they are the strings that the puppet masters pull
the majority of republicans really don’t agree with the neo cons, their party has been highjacked and they don’t know what to do about it
mccain represents the possibility that the republican party might reclaim themselves
the neo cons are probably afraid mccain might actually redirect the party toward the policies the real republicans actually want
Has anyone seen any data regarding the number of registered republicans and the percentage that actually came out and voted yesterday?? I’m hoping a large number of them stayed home and rejected all the contenders.
McCain’s base is the patriot war monger gun toting america first crowd. They could care less about babies and gays and god.
Hilarious.
You got that right BT. Rachel M last night kept hammering this — “McCain wants to continue Bush economic policies and Bush war policies,” and the country hates them both.
1. Their memories are of McCain the Maverick fighting Bush in Y2K OR
2. They saw the superficial “battles’ between McCain and Bush on torture without seeing the follow-up cave-in.
“Who is McCain’s base?” Now we know why Reagan emptied the psychiatric hospitals…
In NYS, 45% of registered Ds voted, compared to 19% in last prez primary (which was way late, Sept, so had no influence), and 20% of Rs voted, down from 22% last time. Didn’t report anything about whether registrations had gone up.
Don’t hold me to the figures. I heard ‘em on the radio while doing other stuff, sut the picture is accurate.
combination of ignorance and stupidity?
Yo Hillary and Obama. Want to help defeat the latest version of a Republican neo maniac (McCain)? Then team up. Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama would bury Johnny. It’s getting close to time when you both should consider behaving like democrats, acting adult, and presenting yourselves as statespersons to the electorate.
McCain’s losing to Obama-Clinton would be good for the GOP.
McBush = Shrub’s third term only worse
Please explain.
… perhaps because some Republicans are dissatisfied with Bush because they feel Iraq is a Good And Necessary War, but the Bush Administration didn’t pursue it with enough force. McCain’s complaints have been that Bush needed to send more troops and be tougher against Syria and Iran.
On a related note, don’t assume that all the 70% or so of the American people who feel Bush is on a “wrong track” in Iraq are unified in believing that the U.S. needs to withdraw troops. Some of those 70% want the U.S. to escalate.
Off-topic, but hearten yourselves by reading ETeller’s blog about last night – http://progressivealaska.blogspot.com/
Actually, kiddo, I want the GOP to make up, fade from the news cycle, and let our grownup candidates take center stage alone for the next three months. All the way to a people-powered convention, with debates frequently and lots of USSenate accountability as well.
The publicity will do our eventual nominee much good, as long as both candidates campaign fair and square.
After Rudy dropped out, McCain is now bringing all of Rudy’s base with him. Rudy’s base thinks the War on Terra is superimportant, but wingnut domestic policies are not that important.
Not so sure the Alaska story is off topic. ET talks about several diehard Republicans showing up, disgusted with the adminstration. Perhaps in earlier years they would have gone for the McCain as maverick theme. So some of the McCain base is coming our way.
Oh, that’s funny. (hiya TexB!)
Wasn’t that snark?
In particular McCain is the only candidate who will not give in to wingnuttia on immigration.
Republics, please nominate McCain so that the photo above can be used in all Democratic political ads until the campaign ends.
Almost anything would be good for the GOP, seeing as it is so controlled and compromised by neocons and corporatists that its authentic social-conservative/ constitutional-conservative/ fiscal conservative foundations are completely gone.
Rather than a dynamic where one argues the proper role and scope of government involvement in domestic and foreign affairs, the GOP is now a party dedicated to looting the treasury on behalf of the wealthy and their corporations, and pursuing fantasies of Empire on behalf of Cheney and like-minded idealogues.
It makes me feel nostaligic for the Good Old Days, when conservatives were merely hypocritical moral scolds, heartless penny-pinchers, and Constitutional nitpickers. Now they’re treasonous self-serving frauds.
McCain and Bush’s base like stuff related to cowboy terminology….like Maverick….Dead or Alive….shoot ‘em up….old Reagan movies…old John Wayne movies….
They have no idea who Bush or McCain are, they just knee-jerk to terminology.
No matter what happens, it’s always good for the Republicans
Flaky Senator from Arizona can’t wait to get his hands on the football.
1966
Actually, McCain will cave on any and all principles if he thinks it’ll help him get elected.
Is Levin using dog-whistle ageism?
On superficial reading, this raises as many questions about continence as about competence….
I wasn’t sure. In fact, I didn’t think of it as snark. Which is why I asked.
Well said.
The wing nuts will forget all about their animosity for McCain if he puts Huckabee on the ticket.
Vote for McCain == more of the same…
The new boss is same as the old boss…
I think that’s right. But there’s not a lot of pro-choice, pro-gay rights Rpeublicans around.
It’s gotta be McCain/Cheney with the sloagan “Experience Counts”.
The more McCain talks, the better I like our chances.
the word ‘Charismatic’ flees the room when he starts droning.
McCain’s base are the people who are completely terrorized by the War on Terra.
McCain’s success proves that the war is the number one issue for the Pukes — not the economy.
Factor in the GOP’s transvestite wing, though, and the Rudy cross-over vote has legs.
Looks like the Preznit’s got another one to pardon:
FBI probing figure linked to 2004 Swift Boat Veterans for Truth; Accused of forging campaign audit.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0206.html
The little guy’s hand is gonna cramp with so many to sign.
”United we stand…” And all you wonderful people know the rest of it. I gotta go back to work. ;0)
So glad I moved my soda, so glad.
Yer on a roll today.
OT Froomkin up “We tortured and we’d do it again”
Isn’t a Conservative Maverick an oxymoron?
It’s both a oxymoron and a plain old moron two… for the price of one.
Hating to be an ageist, McCain appears to dodder and flirt with dementia. Visually, he is the antithesis of strong and decisive.
McCain is the best candidate that the Rs can put forward against either Barack or Hillary. They’ve dodged a bullet if get him nominated. But only until November, at which point the Rs that supported him as the anti-W will drift to the D candidate and the wingnuts will stay home.
I am still nervous though about the head to head polls out there, particularly the Hillary-McCain matchups.
I agree, and he has to read all his speeches. What it means I don’t know, but it worries me.
The Bush family likes him that way. It means VP Jeb won’t have to wait long to ascend to their traditional throne.
Actually, a one-legged stool can be eminently practical, provided, of course, one keeps both feet planted firmly on the ground. Sadly, for the non-reality-based among us that can be something of a challenge. But, maybe he can take up a hobby of milking something once he’s been put out to pasture.
Mark Mazzetti story in the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02…..ref=slogin
Ya think this has anything to do with the FISA debate, as in give us what we want or the terrorists will kill you.
Still I wonder. The Bush Administration has been conducting widespread surveillance without warrants or oversight for 6 years. Yet despite this the threat has not diminished but grown.
You can give a clown a rubber chicken or a supercomputer. It doesn’t matter. Being a clown, he will use the supercomputer just the way he would the rubber chicken, to bash somebody over the head with.
The government doesn’t need more power to spy. It needs smarter people than the current crop of clowns. And yes, Mikey, I’m talking about you.
“I wish I could quit you.”
I want to hear what kind of excuse Dobson and Co. come up with (after he’s the R candidate) when they do a 180 on “never voting for McCain.”
OT
Tox report on Ledger out. Long list of prescription drugs were “coursing thru his body.” Nope, no suicide there. Just an accident. Move along. Nothing to see.
Clinton-Obama would not be good for the Democratic Party – let’s not have a repeat of Gore 2000 trying to decide if Clinton is help or hindrance.
They will say that it was Divine Inspiration. The God Escape Clause never fails for these guys.
Mike “If we don’t terrorize the terrorist will win!” McConnell
You’re right, of course. Guess I’m just too damn rational to figure out the fundies.
” . . . al Qaeda in Iraq . . . al Qaeda in Ira
If the housekeeper had called 911 instead of an Olsen twin, they might’ve been able to revive him with Narcan. That stuff is a miracle worker. I’ve seen people go from damn near dead to walking and talking in less than 5 minutes.
Um, Clinton will be the ticket if the voters vote for her. Whether that’s good or bad for the Ds we’ll know in November. Don’t care what Gore thought about it in 00.
I’m not knowlegeable on this subject, just repeating what I heard on NPR news item at 2, and opining that the way the COD was expressed, the “accidentendal” determination did not pass my smirk test.
If Clinton wins the nomination, that’s one thing, but if Obama is stupid enough to hitch his wagon to the Clinton Stink, then he’s not the man I think he is.
why doesn’t someone explain to those consternated wingnuts that it is all very simple, that once the nominee of your party has been chosen, they have no choice whatsoever but to go forth and support and vote for the Least Worst?
that’s how it works over here, right?
hmmmm, maybe, just maybe, Movement Conservatism has dragged the (R) party along in the desired ideological direction because they are not under the sway of the Axiom of automatic support for the Least Worst?
just sayin.
Don’t tell McCain or Thompson about that shit!
I think Obama is pretty much of a blank slate, and I observe many people writing their own desires on him.
Remember what we learned in the last election — Republican voters are much more likely than Democrats to incorrectly believe that their candidate agrees with them on the issues. The anti-Bush Republicans who support McCain probably either believe that he’s been much more anti-Bush than he has, or believe his rhetoric that the problem with the Bush Administration was competence, not policy.
“In your gut, you know he’s nuts.”
Clinton will have a much easier time going after McCain than Obama will. He will step all over his own message and alienate his Independents and Republicans with going partisan. Clinton will relish the opportunity.
Makes you wonder about the “Least Worst” party, doesn’t it.
In addition to asking how he would pay for his wars, McCain needs to “innocently” be asked as soon and as often as possible, “What would you do differently than Bush?” Make him choose whether to dump on Bush and further alienate the base, or stay loyal and alienate the general population.
Thanks. I didn’t know that about the last election. Makes sense intuitively, though.
Via Froomkin,
As Ross Perot would say, problem solved!
TPMmuckraker also has noted that the White House had no comment on
tortureinterrogation techniques except when it wants to, as now.On this alone this Administration should be impeached. It goes far in showing how brutalized and bastardized our political process has become that it barely rates passing attention in the MSM.
That’s the point: Obama won’t have to do that as much as Hillary will. And she will be too busy defending HillaryCare ‘94 and “Garnishments” to be effective at offensive campaigning.
Great post BT,
On the Today show this morning, with Maddow and Paul Begala, Pat Buchanan (of all people!) also said that McCain would mean 4 more years of Bushes war (I am paraphrasing here).
While Buchanan is an isolationist like Ron Paul and conservatives like him are also anti-war, but is anti-war for a different reason than “the left” (think “brown people should clean up their own messes” meme), it was still interesting for NBC to actually allowing 3 people on who all opposed the GOP agenda.
I am not worried about McCain being the nominee despite the polls being what they are now. A lot of people who are not really paying attention look at McCain and see the funny guy that frequents Leno, Letterman and Conan O’Brien, without knowing what he stands for or what his positions are. Once he gets tarred and feathered with his war position, he will go down in flames, especially since he also has a public campaign finance issue.
That said, the “Senator Straight Talk” meme needs to get shot down at every opportunity by any partisan Democrat. The way I see it, what has hurt Mittens more than anything is his flip flopping. It is also how Kerry ran into trouble 4 years ago. People really, really dislike equivocation.
I don’t want this fall’s election campaign to be about how well or poorly Bush executed the war in Iraq. I want our nominee to be able to say the war was wrong from the start.
Millions of us knew this was wrong from the start. If we knew then what we know even more now, why didn’t Hillary Clinton? Twenty-three Democratic Senators had the judgment to vote against this war; why didn’t she?
Well, at least it appears that they have about apparently as much dissension as we do.
DingDingDing!
That is so not true. Besides I think it is great that Obama favors free chocolate milk for all Americans. I really like chocolate milk.
Hillary should be very clear that she is not going to re-fight those old battles, that much time has passed and new problems need to be taken care of now.
George W Bush disliked his father’s equivocation, and thought it cost him the 1992 election. W’s dislike of equivocation has translated into his irrational stubbornness and criminal warmongering.
I wish flip-flopping weren’t the crime it’s become in the 21st century.
It is funny to watch the wingnuts head explode.
I agree. Remember how long Rudy stayed up in the polls when he first entered the race & how we wondered why anyone could take him seriously? When people started looking at him in ernest, he was toast. Don’t think McCain will ever be the laughing stock that Rudy was (war hero & all that), but I do think when he gets to the point of the campaign where he is scrutinized, he won’t fare so well.
Yo mockin’ me? *g*
It’s not just Limbaugh – Dobson weighs in against McCain
I worked as an election judge in my polling place in IL, yesterday. I noticed two things. First, in IL, my county, you have to vote a single party ballot, either democratic, republican, green, etc. and not a mixture of candidates from all parties. Many people were asking about being to able to vote for some republicans and some democrats. I got the feeling that they wanted to vote republican for local offices (my county is very republican) and vote democratic for president. That is interesting. I also saw more democrats vote in this republican county than republicans, about 25% more. But, I wonder, will all these democrats vote again in the general election, or will half of the democratic primary voters stay home because their candidate is not the nominee in November?
makes me absolutely marvel at it.
I know beleive there is nothing a (D) leader can do or say that would alienate the mainline “progressive” or Left blogosphere, or what have you.
A Clinton/Lieberman ticket would cause some moaning, bu then it would be OMG the (R) hobgoblin is worse, you have no choice but to vote (D).
Lots of choices. Ed Abbey took long river trips in early November, some might choose to go birdwatching, or shampoo the hounds.
he’s gonna havet to de-cipher himself
I think McCain is probably more stubborn than Bush. If elected he would fight all the wars he wanted to until he finally wins Vietnam.
If a layperson like me, without access to all kinds of damning information available to the senate, could see that the premise for war was a crock, why couldn’t she?
so now that bill knows hillary is going on faux he thinks he can swing his manhood around;
dodge fox at your own peril
he’s trying to make it look like he’s telling obama what to do
hillary and obama need to just not go on fox, period, you get maggots like o’really making believe they can tell these guys what to do and he becomes a “factor” again
I think that it’s incumbent upon both Ds to work hard to bring their supporters to the general election. Both Obama & his wife are making noises like they’ll just pick up their marbles & go home it it’s not him. Very disappointing.
dday over at Digby’s place is on the spot with exactly what I am talking about. The defining Bob Dole theory is quite pertinent.
Yep.
Morning to West Coasters and afternoon to everyone else! I’ve been lurking the past couple of threads.
I already made my choice in Nevada – John Edwards – now I get to observe the thought processes of those who are just casting their votes.
We are down to two candidates on the Dem side. Who knows the outcome on the Repug side. It is easier for me to opine what the Repugs are doing than the Dems. I hear people having serious discussions with themselves. It is really a hard choice. I can do pros and cons on each candidate and the scales come up pretty even, just different. The Repugs are much clearer to me.
McCain made a deal with the Bush/Cheney/Neocon camp and they will dictate to him his positions and issues from behind the scenes, where they rule. McCain has agreed to be a figurehead and front guy. He is satisified with that role since it’s the only way he gets to be preez. He will repeat after his bosses and continue to lead the war machine into its dirty deeds. He’ll even give in to waterboarding and torture. That’s my take on McCain. His veep is already selected for him.
Romney and Huckie will continue to play ring-around-the-rosey with eachother until they turn into butter. Neither one has a rats patootie of being veep.
Yeah, I’m living on the street until I can find and afford a house that fulfills my wildest dreams. Oh, and the wife and kids are going to have to feel the same way about it.
I’m with you on the gun-totin’ patriots — like the guy I saw going to vote yesterday — yellow ribbons all over his truck, at least 2 flags attached to its windows, American Legion hat. . . (stereotype much? maybe this guy was for Obama!)
sounds about right.
“some use the perverse argument that Reagan wasn’t all that conservative anyway”
compared to the current GOP, this is true, and that statement is more evidence that the current GOP is dangerously divorced from reality.
“On that last point, one of the top goals of the Dems, in the short and long term, is to connect McCain to Bush — like two peas in a pod.”
McCain is doing a good job of that himself, because the GOP base has become an irrational personality cult of Bush. I hope McCain keeps doing the Democrats work for them. So, a big part of the job is to quote McCain.
True – but you’re talking about 2 different things here, what you do in order to get elected and what you do once you get into office. I am quite confident in the belief that either of our candidates are intellectually curious enough to accept differing opinions; Obama actually said as much in the last debate.
One of W’s many problems is that he is so insecure that he actually thinks that stubbornness is a virtue. Another is that he surrounds himself with sycophants (Condaleeza Rice, hellooooo [think Olbermann voice here]) I don’t think that either of those issues are going to be a problem in the next [Democratic] administration.
You think she has a choice?!?!?
Dear god!!
It took the wingnuts a couple of generations to move the Rs to the extreme right. They did it by working from local offices on up. It could take a long time for us to reverse that.
I think that we need a better current definition of “conservative”.
Excuse me?
Not true… Narcan works with narcotics, not sure that it works on the synthetic codeine drugs such as hydrocodone & oxy.
Ledger toxicology report released
Naloxone (Narcan)
Of course. The Administration position is that in his role as
Supreme Military DictatorCommander-in-Chief, Bush is entitled to do absolutely anything he sees fit, unbound by any law, constitutional constraint, or principle of civilized conduct. Therefore, nothing he does can ever be illegal, by definition. Clearly, the Founders were just … befuddled … by the summer DC heat … when they put that pointless nonsense about impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors into the Constitution. Why, it’s almost like they thought it meant something.Does that sounds accidental to you?
I think she does have a choice. The Clinton conspiracy theorists wore out their welcome. They could do much more harm than good to the cause of the Republican candidate by attempting to bring all of that old debunked crap into the limelight again.
There are no conservatives in the Repug party nor has there been for a very long time. It is the Right Wing party. Right Wing stands for war, oppression and elite rule. Right Wing is the opposite of Democratic. The people serve the Right Wing and are expendable. The elite lawlessly rule.
I refuse to call any Repug a conservative because it is a contradiction in terms. A Repug is a Right Wing ideologue.
“not voting for a slippery, complicit, corporate owned candidate” = “living on the street”?
oh please.
you can do better.
How about “not voting” = “not throwing a penny in the fountain and wishing for a pony”?
but even better, don’t try, retain yr belief in consensus reality, and beleive in the audacity of the hype.
I agree. Reviving that sh*t this time is more likely to tar the tarrers than the tarees, imo.
I have cared for patients who when a family member cleaned out the med cabinet the bottles filled 4-6 inches of a grocery sack. One patient had over 25 different bottles from 6 different MD’s from as many different Pharmacy stores.
People doctor shop, get RX for multiple sources & pharmacy which would not catch that someone is getting a boat load of drugs.
The issue of the Narcan only works with Opiates. It does work great… seen nearly dead patients stand up screaming when the drug counter the narc but does not work with all the other drugs.
indeed – they had a serious groundgame, and were funded with an eye towards long term change.
but one thing that gave them a bit of leverage is that they would refrain from supporting a candidate that did not kowtow to them sufficiently.
if they could be counted on to just stay in the pen and vote as directed, maybe the US political spectrum would be closer to the Ford/Carter range that looks so much saner in retrospect.
“some use the perverse argument that Reagan wasn’t all that conservative anyway”
Someone else commented on this as well. I loved the Daily Show review of several Republican debates, and Josh over at TPM did a little montage as well, where they invoked Ronald Reagan as if he were Jesus.
In fact, with a lot of Republicans the thought process is similar; they attribute all kinds of qualities to Ronald Reagan that he in fact did not possess, in fact he was very much an anti-neo-con for appeasing Gorbachev, something that Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld were extremely unhappy about. Shortly after Mission Accomplished Day, W approached said mythical status as well. Had he actually had competent people in place in Iraq (knowing what we know now of course an impossibility), W might have been enshrined along with Reagan and Jesus in the conservative Hall of Fame.
Digby (that’s twice in one thread) said it best “conservatism does not fail, it is failed.” The problem with McCain is that he already failed conservatism when they put their faith in W in 2000. McCain’s problem is that he lost to Karl Rove in 2000 – they’ll never forgive him for that – ever.
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But, I missed the objective. I thought we were after a hell of a lot better government. Not salvation.
But I get the thought now. Ignore this world, because in your father’s house there are many mansions.
What I don’t understand is what you are trying to achieve. Are you seeking a following in birdwatching, pouting, or what? I don’t think a single person cares what you do in November, but why tell me about it?
Why do people do that? Subsconscious or conscious death wish? Addiction? Could he had taken all those different drugs without thinking that there was a high probability he was going to die?
I’m a naif here. Take one long-term precription and that’s it.
Why are people so testy today? We have 2 good candidates, either would be a good president. We have different opinions and that’s okay. Don’t see why we have to chew on someone’s ankles to make a point.
Good points.
The difference is that the R prez candidate got elected almost every time anyway, and the farther they moved the goal post to the right, the more risky it became for Ds not to vote for a less than stellar prez candidate. Culminating in W with wars and Supremes. Should we really not vote in November for the D, whoever it is, with all that at stake?
And, BTW, the last two D candidates were pretty good on substance. They stank at campaigning. So why should we have threatened to withhold votes from prez?
This confuses me. I truly think that much was lost in the multiple of translations throughout the ages as religious political groups tainted the words of what someone said centuries upon centuries ago, verbally.
I wonder if FEMA will go in and help where the tornadoes hit. Huge damage and at least 50 dead. Talked to my cousin this morning and they are all okay. Wall ripped out of shopping center in Memphis where I have shopped many times. Wrecked dorms,etc. Awful. Please excuse the OT, but I am concerned for these people.
unbelievable
the whitehouse is making it clear it plans on using waterboarding again “if the occaision arises”
which translates into;
“if dick cheney needs his sexual impulses satisfied again”
Ding ding ding.
Or never said, depending …
in a nutshell, real progressive change is strongly inhibited in this country by progressives being in the thrall of the (D) Party, and the (D) party is unlikely to improve unless there is more to choose from, a wider spectrum of allowed opinion.
Americans have zillions of choices of consumer products, why shouldn’t we in politics?
The stories I’m seeing say that Ledger did not OD on any of the individual drugs. He took the recommended dosage of each. Unfortunately, in combination that was lethal.
I do believe it was accidental. He was ill, he had just returned from overseas and was undoubtedly jet-lagged. Most people do not understand that a perfectly safe drug can become lethal in combination with another perfectly safe drug.
Yeah, they’re ballsing it out on waterboarding. Thank you Senator Schumer.
I read an essay in which the author defined conservatives as those who believe society should be dominated by an aristocracy. By that definition, Republicans are certainly conservatives.
We as a society have been sold the idea that some “pill” will solve all your problems. Watch TeeVee and see how many RX ads out there, some of them for a condition or disease process that I never heard of or is not within the standard AMA disease coding literature.
So they seek the right pill or combination of pills to solve issues that probably in the realm of Dr Kirk. Docs have no time, poor record keeping in their offices, no references from different RX chains and people are seeking help and not getting the answers they really need.
Also a lot of people do not have a support system, family to monitor these issues and identify when things seem to be going down a wrong road. Usually people try not to stick their nose into others personal issues except when they are a Cleb but in a different sometimes sick way.
I count 6 drugs, which seem to be in the painkiller/tranquilizer area. Would an individual not question taking them all together? Oh, don’t answer. I think the answer is that I never would, but others might, and I just can’t imagine that such folks exist.
quaker, ecahn – good points – that biblical citation doesn’t quite fit –
but, but – Kerry “reporting for duty” a good candidate?
as has been pointed out upthread, we need to not buy into the frame of “good war, badly managed”.
It’s a crime and an abomination – and contrary to the Nuremburg standard, etc. That, primarily is why I could never support a fence sitter (D) candidate who will continue the occupation for 8 more years.
What prevents formulation of three or four more parties and their gaining what following they can? Who’s stopping you or anyone from organizing a party? If you think there is huge agreement on acceptable progressive policies, why hasn’t the Democratic Party tilted toward the most progressive members. What kept us from nominating Feingold, rather than sitting it out or forming another 3rd party?
Winner-take-all elections. In other elections schemes, 3rd parties have a chance, but not in ours.
OT. This isn’t good. Not surprising though:
FBI to build $1Bn biometrics database
from Boing Boing by Xeni Jardin
http://www.boingboing.net/2008…..n-bio.html
The FBI is expected to announce this week the awarding of a $1 billion, 10-year contract to develop the largest and most comprehensive government biometrics database in history — with information on the palm prints, eye scans, tattoos, and other identifying physical data of citizens and those who pass through.
depending on how much pain a person is in, anything is possible.
I’m one of those “everythig is relative” Ds that the Rs love to castigate so much. So a smaller war crime is better than a bigger one. Can understand why you don’t see it that way.
Corrupt, incompetent, spendthrift warmonger works for me.
Ok wading into this one…
ARE you an appointed or elected precinct committee person?
ARE a member of your country or state party?
Are you going to your district, county, state meetings?
Are you or have you worked on a campaign?
Do you go door to door canvasing?
ARE you registering new voters?
If you do not like what any party is doing AND you are not in the trenches doing something, the whining is just that.
Big Brother.
Too bad the FBI isn’t developing their own computer program to do that. Then we could count on it’s never getting done.
No to all of the ones you list, but I contribute to progressive Ds. Can I stay & whine?
Historically, widely supported third party ideas have been co-opted by one of the two major parties. What you say is true, but on the positive side, it has precluded the week multiparti governments requiring tenous coalitions which collapse every four months. There are still plenty of those around.
This is so depending upon when in history we choose to allow a definition to be frozen in time. Common language, living English, changes dramatically decade to decade. Holding to traditional attitudes at one period in history is very different from holding to attitudes to another time in history. Even conservatism isn’t dead language and thought. He is as subjected to living language as much as I am as I get older and must incorporate concepts not in existence when I was ten years old.
I can assure you that if a woman who aligns herself with conservativism doesn’t mean she is going back to being the property of her husband and must turn over her salary to him for his own personal use. I truly believe she would box his ears if he tried such a stunt.
The naloxone would take care of the two -odones because they are opiates. Flumazenil would be an antagonist for the benzos (-pams)
You forgot evil.
I see a lot of assertions that Hillary (or Obama) will unite the right-wing and bring out those who don’t normally vote. But isn’t that exactly what the talk-show pundits like Malkin, Limbaugh and Coulter have tried with McCain? Republicans had three “types” of candidates from which to select…the Bible-Thumping Theocrat, the Plutocrat, and the War-Hero/Monger. Yet if you look at the voter turnout last night you’ll find that often the winning Democrat (whether Hillary or Obama) easily out-polled the top two Republicans (and sometimes all three). This was often true if so-called Red States.
In some places the Democratic turnout was 4 times that of the Republicans…in places in the deep South Huckabee-land it was nearly equal!
So unless the Republicans are able to get it together they will not win. Even if some sort of alliance is made between McCain and Huck…or McCain and Mitt…the other (and their constituents) will feel sore. Already Mitt is griping about the conniving Citizen McCain with Bible-Beatin’ Huck. The St. Pauli Girls are whinging about the same sort of deals stealing their win in Louisiana.
Obama and Hillary sound like one happy family compared to the Republicans. And even the Edwardians are coming around to “anybody but McCain” (and a McCain-Romulan or McCain-Huckster pairing would be like a strong dose of smelling salts for the rest).
I don’t want to get overconfident, but the primary turnouts, the registration figures, and a general shift by the candidates towards progressive “anti-Bush” themes hearkens well for November. And there will likely be the advantage that a lot of these “new voters” being young, previously alienated, and motivated for change…will support progressive Democrats in the down-ticket races.
My advice…don’t sour them too much on their ability to change things. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
here’s the differance between the republikkkans and the democrats;
the republicans strategy is to give middle class assets to the wealthiest people on the planet
the democrats want everyone on the planet to be wealthy
Yes, I’m aware of that too. Haven’t done much reading in this area, but wish some of the research, like Lani Guinier’s, would get more coverage.
its not whining, its more like the quacking of a duck. other ducks understand, but to people it sounds kinda funny.
and in Chicago, those party positions you mentioned are a whole ‘nother ball of wax, ok?
From here:
Yes you can… it is the people who start the D’s are doing anything and there needs to be a third party spin.
There are processes to a third party….
What has the Greens done since 2000… have they registered enough voters to be a valid party in every state?
Do they have state party offices in every state?
Have they run candidates in lower level races to build their farm team?
In SoAZ the green party is one of the fastest growing party after Dems. They are a valid party in those counties because they have done the above. You can’t just run a Prez candidate and say poof this is a party.
Thanks. *g*
Hydrocodone and oxycodone are opioids, and Narcan works for them just fine. It doesn’t work for benzodiazepines, i.e. all the other pills Ledger took that end in “-am”; but a benzodiazepine overdose by itself is much more survivable in the short term, as long as someone’s around to make sure you don’t choke on vomit.
I’m not talking about Vince Foster. Hell, at one point Hillary wanted to do away with cash money and make everyone have a debit card.
Thanks Hugh, I wasn’t finding anything right off the bat on the synthetics but Narcan might not be the total fix with the other drugs on board.
more to the point, perhaps EMS could have done something if they were notified earlier.
I haven’t read any of her work. I have to admit, however, that I wasn’t thrilled with the idea of multiple votes, based on race or other factors. I’ll admit it’s thinking outside the box, but think it would have been Pandora’s box.
The concept of an aristocracy is not time-sensitive. Societies have been dominated by aristocrats since the time of the Pharaohs, if not earlier. Democracy is the new kid on the block.
This country is dominated by an aristocracy now – the very rich. That there are no titles involved is irrelevant.
Now that I totally agree with…. you always call EMS first…. even if that person who found him thought he was dead.
katymine, I’m from WV – we know about “Hillbilly Heroin”.
Both the Democrats and Republicans were actually once third parties that splintered off other party groupings. For brief periods there were three or four parties that would battle it out (e.g. in the 1840’s in the early 1900’s), then coalesce again as either the issue was “resolved” (or ended) or when a new issue created a new dichotomy. In almost all cases though, unless there is a major figure (say a former President like TR) who builds such a party from their charisma, all successful Third Parties in the US have built up a base of Congressional support FIRST…only challenging for the Presidency later.
I take your point. My point is that once exposed to freedom from dominance, it is hard to go back. People continue to worship celebrities, have hero idols, idealize someone we admire until they barely resemble a human. This is human nature. It’s been with us since the beginning of time. We worship something. Some, the rich. Some a TV actor. That is an interesting piece of human psychology.
A McCain Presidency would be Bushism with better syntax. I do not think he has the physical robustness to survive two terms, so it would probably mean having whatever evangelical fruitcake he chooses as VP as well.
The point of the passage seems to be that the Pharisees were all about saying “We observe the letter of the Law, so we’re righteous, but they’re not,” but couldn’t see they were violating the heart of the Law. And what’s the heart of the Law? Love God, and love others as yourself.
Jesus’ mission was precisely about the fact that the poor, the powerless, the destitute, are not “them” vs. “us.” To say “I’m righteous, but they’re not,” is to be blind to the heart of the Law. It is the source of callousness. But to be blind to such distinctions is to understand the heart of the Law, to be actually righteous, to see others as oneself.
Makes perfect sense to me. But then again, I’m a buddhist these days, so I doubt Rev. Huckabee would agree with my interpretation. If he did, could he still be a Republican?
and one important step is to realize that neither major Party represents one’s views. There is a huge political void around the positions:
save 1 trillion dollars by ending the idiotic failed occupation now!
Single payer health care!
preserve whats left of the Earth’s natural systems!
nature abhors a vacuum, even more than (D) loyalists abhor Ralph Nader.
I don’t see the freedom from dominance. Our society is dominated by the rich aristocrats and has been except for a very few times, normally when a strong democratic leader emerged – Andrew Jackson, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR come to mind.
I just think author’s definition of conservatism is a useful one that we could use.
Don’t know about all that, but did McCain “sing” Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb, bomb Iran? I mean, it ain’t like we don’t have a real Jackywalk of a candidate who seems to be well into his declining brain cell years to work against, you know. Where as Hillary Clinton, whatever else you may think of her, is still brilliant and impressively capable.
Besides, Vince Foster was one of dozens of wing nut conspiracies. If those clowns want to play that game…I think someone is ready for them.
I’m sorry – did you just change the subject?!?
At UCLA I tried hard to avoid celeb/med media (and even harder to avoid being referred celebs as pts. Sorry – I don’t do house calls for the able bodied ‘just cause their manicurist will).
FOr whatever reason, I haven’t been able to escape hearing that the unfortunate Mr. Ledger complained of sleep dififcultie. Try as I may, I can’t seem to dump the factoid he was complaining about profound sleep difficulties even on the other side of the pond.
My shrinky sense tingles whenever I hear a “complaint” (symptom) of profound insomnia in those without medical causes for same.
Once underlying disease is ruled-out, profound recurrent sleep difficulties are a “red flag” to look for psych causes: either secondary (from prescribed and/or recreational substances) or major psych diagnoses (esp bipolar disorder).
Sadly for patients, more than 90% of psychoatice drugs are prescribed by non-shrink MD’s. ALthough some have the info base to screen for/diagnose major psych dx’s, most don’t. Even fewer have the time to do so.
These facts – coupled with the sad facts that most shrinks still don’t use validated diagnostic instruments (best way to obtain accurate diagnoses) condemn pts with bipolar disorder to a delay of twelve years between their first encounter with mental health care and having their BAD dx’d.
I’m sure not saying Mr. Ledger meets dx criteria for bipolar – his death is a tragedy whatever the dx (or absence of same).
I am beyond frustration at the widespread prescribing of psychoactive substances to treat symptoms when neither the doc or patient have established a diagnosis.
“Narcotics” is a tricky term: lives in legal space (DEA – all manner of “bad drugs”) and medical space (opium or drugs that act like it). The medical term opiate agonist decribes natural and sythetic opium-like drugs. These drugs can cause respiratory depression; Narcan reverses this.
Benzodizapines (the Valium family) also can cause respiratory depression; flumazenil can reverse this.
[Once a patient has suffered organ failure/brain death from respiratory depression, neither anatagonist (naloxone/flumazenil) will help…]
Hope this helps.
I keep trying to write a lay-person’s guide to bipolar dx/tx for a Lake post, but the misdignosis and resultant delay/suffering so irritates me as to be an aversive stimulus.
Gotta run – I think I smell cheese around the corner…
crap – I can’t type for beans. Sorry, folks.
No, I don’t think I changed the subject. I might have added to it accordiingly.
You said ‘The wingnuts are coming, the wingnuts are coming’ after Hillary Clinton!
I said bring the old geezers on.
You said, I’m not talking about old winuttia, I’m talking about new wingunttia.
I said that new wingnuttia is the same as old wingnuttia, and that new wingnuttia (which is the same as old wingnuttia) will be ever so handicapped by the fact that their guy (McCain) is not even their guy. And even if he happened to be “their guy” he has lost his gitty-up. More handicap.
I know, although the Democratic Party had a little more direct transition from the Democratic Republicans. My point was that our system doesn’t automatically preclude additional parties, but in a way has made them prove their worth and then served to modify or reform the two major parties. In many a history course, this taught as a major blessing in terms of orderly change, almost on a par with our transfer of power. I tend to agree with that viewpoint.
I was initially irritated at what I took to be an arrogant, obscurely worded comment implying that any of us who believed in choosing the lesser of two evils, or didn’t recognize the evil, were thoughtless morons.
In the absence of any overt evidence such as a suicide note or threats to kill himself, a finding of accidental overdose is essentially automatic. What two kinds of painkillers, three kinds of benzo, and one sleeping pill indicate to me is a pill popper with access to lots of meds. I don’t know where to draw the line between dangerous behavior and suicidal behavior. Perhaps there isn’t one.
No – I said that Hillary’s negative numbers are almost as high as her positive numbers and McCain is currently beating her head-to-head in the polls for a reason.
After following back to comment 91 or so, I didn’t see where you said that, but even if you did before 91 or so, so what. That would hardly constitute an honest reply to me from you as me “changing the subject”. That would be like telling someone one, ‘Hey, I have a theory. Don’t bring up any evidence to refute my theory because that would be changing the subject’.
Kind of a hard sell.
Hugh, thanks for educating me on the meaning/process leading to the “accidental overdose” finding.
I sure agree the deceased had access to lots of meds – and his demise is one reason I almost never start benzodiazapines (the Valium family) on a daily basis in new patients (and only start them on a prn basis in extraordinary circumstances.
As Oxycontin and other long-acting opiate agonists are prescribed with increasing frequency in the general population, an increasing number of accidental OD”s are reprorted – apparently due to the synergistic SE’s of these (and other) meds.
I’m not concluding Mr. Ledger had any particular psych diagnosis (and of course I’m not suggesting you are).
Over the four years I recently did community mental health, I was struck by the number of patients who demonstrated voracious appetites for prescription RX, were not selling the RX on street, had serum levels consistent with what they said they were taking – and still were tormented by unrelieved insomnia/racing thoughts/emotional anguish.
Almost all these folks had undiagnosed major psych disease (almost always bipolar) and – as soon as they received accurate diagnosis/ evidence-based treatment – stopped their “pill popping”. They’d been gobbling meds to relieve their suffering – not to cop a buzz.
For patients with bipolar disorder – in which disturbed sleep (or no sleep) is a diagnostic criteria of the mixed/manic phases, and impulsivity/impaired judgement become more severe as mixed/manic sx increase – I’ve give up even trying to distinguish (unconscious) suicidal behavior from reckless behavior. I just try to ensure that what I (and other docs) prescribe for my patient won’t cause accidental OD even if the patient takes a few days of meds “because I just needed to sleep”.
Of course, this also explains why if I were to resume psychopharm practice I wouldn’t be taking on bipolar patients – the level and frequency of MD contact they (appropriately) require to adjust meds to theraputic levels often requires the sort of 24/7 back-up that only university-based clinics can sustainably provide.
As only a few days go by between lay people tellng me about loved ones / friends / colleagues who apparently meet criteria for BAD – yet can’t even get a decent psych assessment – I do fantasize about a limited practice confined to psych diagnoses.
[Immodestly enough, I’m sure that service would help - but I’d still end the day wanting to scream ’cause of all the years the patients had suffered before someone took the fifty minutes required to do a decent frakkin history and ask questions from a validated psych dx instrument.
Again, this has nothing to do with Mr. Ledger’s individual history or diagnosis.
His tragic death - just as tragic as that of any person - simply brings up one of my greatest dissatisfactions with psych practice and the use of psychoactive drugs.]
To me, it has everything to do with the fact that psychoactive meds and opiate agonists are immensely powerful tools. Like all powerful tools, can cause injury and death when used in the wrong fashion – and will almost certainly do so when used for the wrong task.
Some docs prescibe these powerful tools carefully and mindfully – but until all do, OD’s from multiple psych/analgesic meds used concurrently will keep on killing.