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Thanks to Zell Miller, there is a rule to deal with Joe Lieberman.
Lieberman's endorsement of Republican John McCain disqualifies him as a super-delegate to the Democratic National Convention under what is informally known as the Zell Miller rule, according to Democratic State Chairwoman Nancy DiNardo.
Miller, then a Democratic senator from Georgia, not only endorsed Republican George Bush four years ago, but he delivered a vitriolic attack on Democrat John Kerry at the Republican National Convention.
The Democrats responded with a rule disqualifying any Democrat who crosses the aisle from being a super delegate. Lieberman will not be replaced, DiNardo said.
And for those who said they'd never lift their glass in a toast to Zell Miller...cheers!
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Hahahahahahaha
Hurray!!!
Salud!
HA-HA!
Cheers!
The worm has finally started turning.
Awww… Poor HoJo… What ever will he do…! ;-)
Will he be barred from Denver completely? If he shows up at the airport, can they arrest and detain him? Put him on the no-fly list or something?
4 delegate difference I think now so maybe the talk of who is winning can stop and policy start - ITS A TIE!
Maybe down to 3 delegates now looking at this post:
New post has been published - Lieberman Has “Superdelegate” Status Stripped Because of McCain Endorsement
Sad news is this means he will be switching to R soon (not that it matters), will he keep his committe assignments (his name written in there) or can it be stripped?
Aren’t committee assignments tied to party?
Obama won Conn because Hill was so cozy with Lie-berman. Finally hes getting some payback!
It’s about time !!!
it’s about time this judas sheep had some deomcratic position stripped from him, he’s no democrat
it’s clear he’s gonna take whatever welfare position they asign him if the repukelicans win the office
I would be surprised if that during the actual campaign for president mccain doesn’t choose him for vp or insinuate he’s gonna be secretary of state or defense
Well it sure is nice to see common sense sneak trough now and then. Especially since Joe Lieberman is not a Democrat! Does anyone have link to a list of super delegate names, por favor?
Nope, Reid had it worked out that the Chairs are named…
Lieberman has forfeited any right to call himself a Democrat, much less to receive any honors courtesies, or privileges granted by the Democratic Party to Democratic officeholders.
He’s not a Superdelegate. He’s a Supertraitor (to the Democratic Party).
Best post-Super Tuesday news yet!
Huzzah! How exciting to have RGJoe subject to a Zell Miller Rule. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
I may need a cocktail now.
So old give’em hell Zell left something positive, it is overdue but
welcome to see… after the general he will lose some of his value.
Eh, put him in the airport men’s room.
The nasal talking motherf897ker needed his mids adjusted, the tone sounded like shit.
From what I had read, I don’t think Short Ride anticipated being in Denver anyway. I think he had come to accept that his odor wasn’t too popular with Democrats.
I forget the exact quote after he had endorsed McCain but IIRC he was asked about his Senate colleagues running for the Presidency in the Dem primary which then included Senators Dodd and Biden as well as Senators Clinton and Obama and he responded “only John asked me.”
The real story is that this guy was still a super delegate after leaving the party! Unfrickingbelievable.
But why deprive Connecticut of its deserved super-delegate vote? Why not send Ned in Joe’s stead?
Hey. Champagne and confetti where we can get it! After the last two posts, this is a victory.
Leave Joe Lieberman alone!
-G
Has anyone checked to see whether LIEberman has a special-privilege parking space on Capitol Hill that could be revoked? Are there perhaps smaller, less convenient office quarters that could be assigned to him?
I like the Zell Miller rule. It sets a good precedent.
barbara’s naive question du jour: What happens to wee little Senate majority when Lieberman bolts? And why hasn’t he already done that? Okay, two naive questions. Beat me, beat me.
Yes! That’s always perplexed me! What does it take to get thrown OUT of this club?
707
By the way, what was up with the childish, giddyness expressed by Chris Wallace over Karl Rove on the Daily Show?
I mean Wallace has been around a long time and he acted like a teenager at a concert. It was grotesque.
-G
Heh.
*clink*
Maybe LIEberman could be kicked off of Capitol Hill altogether. Rent him some seedy office space a few blocks away, where he would be only a “short ride” from the Capitol.
Whoa.. CT loses the delegate and not just the
manworm?I don’t get that either.
OT-Just an interesting tidbit. I’m watching Duke v UNC basketball. John and Elizabeth Edwards are there.
that’s a great friggin point, someone needs to ask how the hell he still had super delegate status
Well, what can I say… I never thought, in my wildest imagination, that I would EVER say “thanks” to Zell. Let this be a lesson to all of you — if you live long enough ANYTHING can happen. Thanks, Zell! Now, as the next order of business, can we get the little turd tossed off his committees? Harry? Are you listening?
Is Lieberman going to go to the GOP convention this summer and reuse the Zell Miller line: “What are the Democrats going to protect America with? SPITBALLS!
-G
Woo fucking hoo!
(the current news cycle is really challenging my plans for an Imbolc liver cleanse. Celtic genes will out, the stubborn little buggers)
The problem will be the super delegates.
Connecticut lost the right to a Democratic Superdelegate when it voted Joe Lie into office as a “Connecticut for Lieberman” senator.
Ned Lamont would have made a fine Democratic Superdelegate.
Well, there goes my dream scenario. First Lieberman shows up at the Republican convention and delivers a nominating speech for McCain. Then Lieberman goes to Denver as a Democratic super-delegate and provides the one-vote margin for the eventual nominee winner. A regular one person unity symbol all by himself. Now that last part is gone with the wind, thanks to windbag Zell Miller. Lieberman’s biography will always have Zell Miller as a footnote instead.
Finally the Democrats get it. Lieberman has jumped ship. If indeed he was ever on it.
I heard politicians are just policy makers for governing corporations.
Maybe RGJoe could use the time wisely whilst the Dems are in Denver: by holding hearings on Katrina contractors, or on Halliburton war-privateering, or on the missing CIA tapes, or on the empty Civil Liberties Board, or on the 9/11 Commission mole.
Dayum, but you be funny!!
You forgot to snort…
I’m down stairs shutting one of kiddos’ computers down down. I’m glad he didn’t see this about Lieberman. Want to press a kiddo button? Mention Lieberman.
goodnight again. Lahoma.
Maybe Lieberman will challenge Bay Buchanan to a duel at the Larry Craig Mensroom. Aren’t duels part of the great Zell Miller tradition?
Which crowd was Joe in during high school?
At the risk of appearing unhip (g) what is 707
Inquiring minds and all that.
Zell Miller.
Bless his heart.
Jane,
Thank you for helping to kick Joe out of the party. When he makes his Zell speech at the Rep convention there will be a major push for the state party to send a letter to give them head Harry to strip Joe of his Chair in 09. Thought you might want to know.
a crowd of one.
lots of my comments disappear into the ether… or is it moderation?
*gasp* Ya mean his job…? ;-)
the cheaters?
Night-night again, L. Snuggle happily!
With limp hotdogs? or bratwurst
LOL, upside down… From laughing so hard… *g*
LOL lying on your back with your feet in the air!
LOL, upside down
Did we answer your question, Maddy? ;-)
I am laughing so hard right njow I cjan harkly type
Man, (((((((((((((((((((((((gggggggggg))))))))))))))))))
Please help me with the math. Right now, today, exactly how many Dems, how many Reps and what — two Independents? Trying to figure this out.
Can we just rename Joe? I recommend Zell Dickhead.
-G
Just why the f*ck was Joe-Lie made Dem super-delegate in the first place after he left the Dem Party when he lost the Dem primary to form his own party to run against Lamont? I’m shocked that he had that status to begin with…
Lieberman is one of the most revolting politicians I can think of. There are quite a few miserable examples, but Lieberman ranks up there with W. and Cheney.
very loud ding
The Dem majority was most important during the organizing phase of this Congress, where we had the majority due to Joe claiming to caucus with us. That allowed the Dems to have all the committee chairs.
This can’t change until the 2009 organizing session. By then, we’ll hopefully have a lot more Dem senators and Joe will be completely irrelevant. So it won’t make any difference if we don’t have a technical majority until then.
Besides, Joe never votes with us on the important issues.
care to do a youtube yourself?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc
Abrahm’s just played a cut of all of the Foxholes saying: “As Karl Rove has said…….”
They love their authoritarians who tell them shit don’t they?
-G
Rove is the same tool that was blabbering about having ‘the math’ in 2006.
Thank Harry Reid. Harry Reid is either a fool or a conservative turn coat.
In the Senate? 49 Rs and 49 Ds plus 2 Is who caucus with the Ds and provide the margin for the organizing resolution which named Harry Reid the Majority Leader and named all the D committee chairs (except for Short Ride as the chair of the Senate Oversight Committee - his price if you will).
Bless you!
Becarefull here folks if joe truly jumps ship and caucuses with the Repub we will lose control of the commitees. It is sure fun to see this scum bag get his but he could really screw us for the next few months if he jumps ship.
I look forward to his irrelevancy. With relish.
No oversight though. Remember how he vowed to investigate Katrina when he was running for office. He gave Bush a blow job instead.
joe lieberman, judas sheep
And you, too. Somehow, I spaced the whole makeup of the Senate thing.
I’m getting that same feeling of revulsion every time I see Harry Reid.
Linkie no workie.
Finally, some justice! This is purely “a good start.” What’s next?
I miss edit so much!!
And THANK you, too, dakine
Reply no workie either. That’s for you perris.
Thanks, Zell. Little did we know you would come in so handy. But, how does Lieberman, not a Democrat, get to be a superdeligate? It seems once he left the party he forfeited that status.
Louisiana primary coming up this weekend. Any Louisiana folks here who can shed some light?
There is some question as to whether he had it or not; some folks at the DNC don’t think he did, but DiNardo’s response seems to remove all doubt.
rove insists fireworks are gonna fly in the general election
I have no doubt he has crap to sell, true or false, he WILL create fireworks against the democrats
since the democrats WON’T lie, the rove strategy has a leg up on the smear factor
democrats have to create a strategy that will inoculate themselves from the smear tactics of lies from rove and company
they are gonna have to get that strategy prepared now so that when the crap does start flying they have something at the ready to compensate
if we know rove, and we do, it’s gonna be some huge shit he starts flinging into the fan
Irony, Zell is yer name. Thanks Mz. Hamsher for that one. *G*
Maybe someday there will be a Lieverman Rule, to govern someone who sells out for too little, or too much. *G*
Actually if he jumped ship right now it would be irrelevant, since the Senate rules and committee chairs have already been set in stone, until the next Congress…
Who was he pledged to?
How does this SuperDelegate thing work?
“how does Lieberman, not a Democrat, get to be a superdeligate? It seems once he left the party he forfeited that status.”
They probably gave Harry Reid the job of making up a list of U.S. Senator superdelegates.
“My contempt for Joe Lieberman knows no bounds.” Punaise, right? I agree.
reply works, you have to enter the quote manually by hitting the quote button and pasting between tags
link button works also, you hit the button, paste your link, hit enter, then type what yuo want between the arrows at the end of the html tag
kind of complicated to explain but once you get it, you’re good to go
Who was he pledged to?
Louis Cipher
If you’re talking about Jane’s link, try it again.
Or try here:
http://blogs.courant.com/capit.....no-lo.html
So, you agree with me then, that having 40% of the delegates be ‘Super’ might not be a super great thing?
Hardly seems ‘Democratic’, although I’ve been assured that ‘there is no need to worry yet.’
Not worried, just not abundantly impressed.
Elected party officials, Senators, Reps, Gov’s, are Super Delegates, they’re not obliged to vote for any particular candidate, and can change their vote at any time…
Hey everyone - long time no see! I’d lost my login info, then couldn’t get re-logged in for a while.
All I can say about this story is BWAAAHHH!
(Oh, and I wonder if Joe might challenge Zell to a duel over this).
I don’t have a link but recall that sometime last year, Short ride quietly re-registered as a Dem in I believe it was Stamford, CT (where he residess I assume).
So technically, he is once again a member in not-so-good standing of the Democratic Party.
in order to promise power to the old timers, they were given super status for nominating presidential candidates
it’s well past it’s funtionality and needs to change but in point of fact, we don’t pick the candidates in these primaries, they are really just to tell the super delegates what we want
they have no rules, they can nominate whoever they want and according to rachale maddow, they are responsible for 40 percent of the decision votes
New Orleans was the reason that La. remained democratic. The black population was the anchor. The anchor is gone. Hard to say. Clinton may suffer from the misogny of the deep south.
The ugly thing about KKKarl and his ilk is that they plant rumors, false evidence, and run a vicious gossip machine with the express purpose of destroying the person.
Why does this work? Because little minds love ugly gossip no matter if it is false. They just love to hate. And, they hate the truth and won’t seek it out. They thrive on poison.
CNN has a brief discussion of delegates here:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI.....index.html
The one tactic that I believe would work on rove is to just laugh him off the stage. If he was laughed at all his pontifications would melt away and he would be just a republican puke nerd.
I know what you mean. But once in a while he’ll surprise you and do the right thing. He is stronger and more capable than he projects most often. But on the other hand, he can be wormy.
I can’t believe what I’m seeing at the Obama fundraising counter since the polls closed last night:
http://my.barackobama.com/page.....il/graphic
In the last 30 min., it’s gone from $4.4 million to $4.95 million !
Unreal
In the mid/late seventies after many elected officials were not selected as delegates during the McGovern and Carter conventions, the elected officials decided that they should ALWAYS be allowed to be delegates, no matter who they were supporting for President.
Hence, all former Presidents, Vice-Presidents, plus current Senators, Representatives, and I believe Governors are automatically delegates to the Democratic Party’s National Convention. There are some other as well I believe but that’s mainly it.
according to rachale maddow, they are responsible for 40 percent of the decision votes
What was Rachel referring to?
Actually, now that I’m thinking about it, it might be worth it to have Joe be a super delegate at the Dem convention. Can you imagine how long and loudly he would be booed the moment he walked into the auditorium?
It would almost be worth it to see his face.
This issue of Rove pulling a fast one is the reason I support Hillary. I’m sure she’s entirely capable of letting her witchyness shine. And that she has some serious goods.
he’s not talking about himself this time
he’s gonna release some bang zoom lies about whoever we nominate as soon as it will do the most damage
it won’t be him that releases it, it’s gonna be some new group that calls itself “the swift women against hillary”
or
“africans afraid of the bigot obama”
something like that, it will get legs because every single media outlet on the planet will run the charge and disclaim the adverstisement by leading;
“is it true?”
that’s what’s gonnna happen
Nevertheless, I’d like to see him show up. Perhaps his friend Barbara Boxer will be guarding the door.
Does this also mean that Democrats that endorsed a third-party Senatorial candidate will also be stripped of their super-delegate position…or would THAT be the “You Endorsed Joe Lieberman Rule”.
I’m also wondering what happens if Lieberman officially joins the Pugs…does the Senate Organizing Rule carry over to this current year. Or can Reid make new appointments now. Wouldn’t Lieberman lose his seniority in the Senate as a Republican (i.e. wouldn’t the Republicans consider him a first term Senator?) or would he be able to assert to them that he deserved chairmanships and positions based upon his tenure? Would he be able to kick a Republican Senator of their Committee?
Oh, I so hope that he does…he’ll be SOOOO Loved!
Sounds very 3 day old fishy to me, deals in the back room people disenfranchised and irrelevant?
If true, then we need a Joe Lieberman rule: If you resign from the party after losing a primary, you can’t be a super delegate. :)
super delegates, they account for 40 percent of the actual decision votes for picking the nominee…hard to overcome
As long and loudly as he was booed after he came back to the Senate as an “Independent Democrat?” As I recall that was a standing O…
Teeny note in local paper today that Ol’Mac is going to Munich for a security conference this weekend and taking Joey Shortpants and Timmeh Paw-lenty [I srewed up Minnesota real great, now can I screw up America some more?]
And QuakerGirl, karma for KKKarl would be to have some TMZ paparazzi followin’ him and Rush for a while…. There’s gotta be a Macaca or toe-tappin’ moment in there somewhere….
Super delegates is rubbish when you think about it. Ifr we are to have a series of primaries where the delegates are chosen then why all the super delegates?
Why? Because is is completely undemocratic elitist insider BS.
I thought there were like 100 or so but this is nuts. It defeats the whole purpose of the primaries. Whose dumb idea was that?
Can we have a front pager dig into super delegates , who they are, how the whole thing was conceived and so forth?????
So you think Lieberman has it bad……..
http://maryamnamazie.blogspot......ed-to.html
The Organizing Resolution passed in January 2007 is for the entire 110th Congress. That is, until the next Congress is seated in January 2009.
And when a member switches parties in mid-career, the gaining party usually allows them to keep their seniority rights as part of the deal. think Richard Shelby becoming a Republican and Jim Jeffords becoming an Independent but caucusing with the Dems.
I totally agree with you..
The difference is the room was filled with senators whose livelihood is being reelected.
The Denver convention is largely filled with regular, somewhat idealistic Democrats, who would be much less charitable to my junior senator.
So this “persona non gratis” is now an ex-super deligate?
Loving it….
Not 40% of the delegates. 796 delegates are Superdelegates, which is ~40% of the total needed to win the nomination (2,025).
Also at that link is a list of superdelegates, by endorsed candidate.
$5,125,808 and counting. What Obama’s raised since Super Tuesday.
$5 million, eh, Billary? I think a message is being sent you.
I was talking abut your link ‘judas sheep’ at #81. I thought I had hit reply but my aim may have been off.
more like a toe tapping moment.
Hi MaryMc -
That is my concern. I think Obama would have walked away with an easy win but it’s not looking so good for him now. What have you heard? I get such nasty e-mails from there that I have to go meditate to keep from ripping through my computer to get to them. I just received another ugly racest e-mail about Obama so I really worry about his safety. They really hate, even despise, Hillary. It is a violent hate that comes out of twisted minds. I hear nothing on issues just vitriol.
The lasted racest e-mail I received I traced to Kenner. Someone working in City Hall is putting it out. She is quite proud of herself. It stuns me.
O/T somewhat: What the fuck is wrong with us?
On NPR on my way to work this morning, a caller asked about McCain’s likely choice of Tim Pawlenty as VP, an important choice given McCain’s age and health. The guest, pollster Andy Kohut of the Pew Research center, replied that that wasn’t going to happen; McCain would surely have to choose a conservative to mend fences with the party’s conservative base. And, on my way home from work, it was mentioned that McCain had canceled an appearance at a NATO conference in Europe to attend CPAC to mend fences with the party’s conservative base. What do you think the chances are that anyone in the mainstream thinks that Clinton and/or Obama thinks they ought to mend fences with their party’s progressive base?
Every time I read the comments someone is pledging to support the party’s nominee, regardless of who it is. IMHO, neither Clintor nor Obama is a progressive. In fact, Edwards’s voting record doesn’t qualify him either. So, let’s drop our shadenfreude about the predicament of the conservatives and be as smart as they are being about pulling their party back where they think it belongs.
Thanks RBG, those links do work.
Yes, don’t ya just love those cigars…? ;-)
If Joe Lie jumps it would be 50R vs. 49D+1I. Does Cheney get involved or is that only to break a tie in voting for legislation? In my view the Organizing Rule can’t be voted down in a tie (or a new one instituted) so it’s the status quo until January 2009…although I can’t think Joe could retain the Chairmanship…just Comm. membership.
But I’m surprised that Joe Lie didn’t keep his gob shut about McCain until the conventions were over. I don’t think his endorsement meant jackaranda in Florida or elsewhere. If he’d shut his mincing mouth he’d be able to possibly create chaos in the Democratic process as a Super-Delegate. Even if he couldn’t play kingmaker, he could play the stink-maker and leave the Democrats with one last final insult to our intelligence. He could have used his vote to nominate….
…George W. Bush!
HA! Just Desserts for Joe Sleazeberman!
But I’m sure that McCain will make him feel welcome at the Republican Convention.
BTW, what’s Zel Miller doing these days, since his gig at the Republican convention?
Bob in HI
aha
go to the archives
http://firedoglake.blogspot.co.....chive.html
scrol down or use the control+f and type in “judas”
Yuk. I cannot imagine receiving those emails.
My family is fairly open minded. My dad is a republican but the rest are progressive dems for the area.
I glad they canned Lieberman…does anyone wonder about his capacity to gum up the works if it doesn’t suit his or his Republican friends agenda?….
I don’t think Joe would show up at the convention. He would get booed by the DELEGATES. He walks on thin ice.
going home, going to bed
g’night firedogs
Clearly Sander, this needs to explored throughly. Many here commenting are obviously finding this to be ‘news’.
Or A*p*c, can’t forget them…
g’nite perris
Nite Perris - Sweet dreams. You deserve them.
So Lieberman lost his superdelegate status. I don’t know why he had it in the first place. But no harm done. It’s not like he’s one to hold a grudge or anything.
Thanks for the clarification Teddy.
What I understand would happen if Short Ride jumped the fence and the Rs attempted to cram through a new Organizing Resolution with Cheney casting the tie breaking vote is the Dems would stop it with a filibuster. And for once, would most likely hold together through multiple cloture votes.
Hence, no action taken.
Let’s be done with all of the fine print and just go to the popular vote.
I don’t think there are that many Super-Delegates.
From Wiki:
“The 2008 Democratic National Convention, where the Democratic presidential ticket is formally agreed upon, has 796 superdelegates, although the number is not final until March 1, 2008. Superdelegates to the Democratic Convention include all Democratic members of the United States Congress, Democratic governors, various additional elected officials, members of the Democratic National Committee, as well as “all former Democratic Presidents, all former Democratic Vice Presidents, all former Democratic Leaders of the U.S. Senate, all former Democratic Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives and Democratic Minority Leaders, as applicable, and all former Chairs of the Democratic National Committee.”
A candidate needs a majority of the combined delegate and superdelegate votes to secure the nomination. Democratic delegates from state caucuses and primaries number 3,253, resulting in a total number of votes of 4,049. The total number of delegate votes needed to win the nomination is 2,025. Superdelegates account for approximately one fifth (19.6%) of all votes at the convention. Delegates chosen in the Democratic caucuses and primaries account for approximately four fifths (80.4%) of the Democratic convention delegates.”
Apparently Zell is going to be very busy! [snort] Official spew alert!
What he said
Sleep well, Perris.
That’s funnee….
I wonder if there’s going to be a “so-sorry you messed up and opened your big mouth party” for Leiberman from the DNC?….
Excellent, that works. Off to read…
Jsus Marion that is the stuff pure unadulterated mindspeak fascism and I hope I never meet any of the graduates. Into the john, for a little drive on the white bus.
‘this means that 0.0007% of the voting population has 19.6% voting power in the 2008 Democratic Primary.’
From your linkerage, for which great thanks.
That actually makes me feel a super great deal better.
I guess it is far enough downthread to go OT with this. NM is going to be counting provisional ballots (17,000!!) of them before the vote count here is finished.
There were tons of provisionals in part because we allowed people to vote anywhere in the state if they could not make it to their polling location or did not know where to go. . .now we FIND OUT that the Secy of State has OUTSOURCED the management of the voter list to–are you ready for this–ES&S. TONS of voters were not on the list in their precincts. So another way of scrubbing voters, outsource the list to ES&S for “management.”
Um, I guess you missed the [snort] and the “official spew alert,” which telegraphs that what is to follow is a JOKE.
During this cycle, however, that fifth can make or break a candidate’s chances, considering they’re not beholden to any candidate by We the People’s votes…
Do we get to name Lamont as Joe’s replacement?
Ain’t democracy grand?
Hey Loo Hoo:
The spouse and I were discussing this stuff tonight. We’re Edwards supporters (he was still in the race when we had our useless MI primary), and we were talking about how we truly are completely undecided about these candidates. They really aren’t that far apart on many issues that matter to me today - some past actions make me question BOTH of their judgement, but we’re okay with either one as our next President.
We agreed that one of the upsides of Clinton is that she will be ready to face whatever crap the Republicans throw at her. She knows how to campaign well (she seems very good on the stump, when I’ve seen her on televised speeches), she is excellent in the debates, and will be ready to have a serious policy wonk-off with McCain. I’m still surprised that she seems a little off during her big victory speeches - she doesn’t get the feel of when to pause, when to let them cheer, how to deliver a riveting speech. She will fight down and dirty, not trying to take the high road like Kerry did. I think she would be tough to beat. Six months ago, even a few months ago, she was #3 on my wish list. Her stellar debate performances (damn, does she know her stuff) and her tenacity has made me much more comfortable with her.
Obama has the speeches down cold. He is so energetic, great in front of any crowd (campaign stump or victory speeches), and shows a lot of charm and thoughtfullness in the campaign. I don’t expect he’d be as much of a policy wonk as Clinton, and might have a little bit of a disadvantage in debating and competing against McCain (except for the age difference & “old Washington” meme Obama could use in his favor). I wonder if he’ll fight as hard and mean, and be as well equipped to deal with the media narrative, as Clinton.
It always amazed (and befuddled) me that Al Gore chose a scold like HoJo to be his running mate. It’s a shame that back in 1999 Jim Webb was not a “democrat”.
-sigh- 20/20 hindsight, perfect again.
They should have done this when he lost the primary! Does Bernie Sanders get to be a superdelegate?
Second Best Political Line of the Century;
Hugh.
‘Let’s take the mock out of demockracy.’
Crikey, the widget in the Obama email just refreshed at $5,257,912….
Wonder what it’ll be by morning? Think I’ll take my wintercold to bed and rest up for it….
It was a blow job (second time tonight I used that term)impeachment reaction.
Maybe McCain will make the boo-boo go away and make Joe his running-mate….
That would be perfect….
No, I got it
I told you super delegates were going to be a problem for the “democratic” party.
Just another way of giving more power to the powerful and dissing the people.
sorry for OT, but i had to figure this out for myself, MSM didn’t inform us *g* If it was mentioned earlier today at FDl, i apologize. So, here is my look at how Minnesota numbers compare: Obama had 141,079 votes cast for him in MN caucuses. Clinton collected “only” 68,033. I say “only” because she pulled more votes than there were GOP caucus attenders who numbered 61,771. Hillary beat the entire GOP caucus by 6,262 votes. She whomped the GOP “winner” by 42,139 votes. BWAhahahah. Hope the GOP keeps squabbling over the carcass on the railroad tracks and never sees the train coming.
and an additional bwahahahaha because Minnesota Gov. Pawlenty, co-chair of McCain’s national campaign, couldn’t deliver Minn. Pawlenty’s Veep dreams are evaporating. bwahaha!
David Plouffe emailed me with that very information.
DING!
I think that the reason the Conservatives are willing to do this in the Pug party is simply because they KNOW they can bide their time. The demographics of the Supreme Court are in their favor. The US is already in Iraq. The Bush Administration has already devastated the economy to such a degree that Medicare and Social Security could very well crash far ahead of where they sat 8 years ago. With the “progressive” Democrats the risks of playing F*U unless you appoint a Green Party member to the VP position is of a different “weight” than the Republicans.
Their system is in place and it will take a long time to dismantle.
I’d hope to see some progressives in the cabinet (and you are correct, Edwards really isn’t a progressive when you look at his voting record and affiliation with the Senate New Democratic Coalition), or in the Supreme Court.
Maybe what we should be shooting for, instead of people in positions, is a sort of post-election impeachment process (this is allowed under the Constitution) for those Republicans who have violated the Constitution. That would be something that might pare away many of these criminals from serving in public office ever again, as well as preventing them from lobbying or receiving public moneys ever in the future.
I can’t see McCain making Joe his running mate. That would totally turn off the GOP base.
He’ll go for someone younger, a “traditional Republican” that the base will love. I’m guessing he’ll make a deal with the noisemakers supporting the GOP (like Limbaugh, Dobson etc.) to pick someone on their approved list, and they’ll all be spouting about “conservative family values” and “protecting America”. The movers & shakers propping up the GOP will make nice at an attempt to save their hides in the election.
Thanks for that. Me and my significant other are on opposite sides of this but are comfortable with the other choice (in the general).
In fact, every time I see Hillary speak I like her more. I don’t know… its like she isn’t a politician at this point. Its like she is a good person doing her thing at this point in the arc of her life.
Now that they have picked McCain, I think we need to focus on the bigger game. Senate and extending the House. Hubris? Yeah, I’ll regret it…
People get to be superdelegates by being elected to something — either political office (governor, senator, president, etc.) or to a position within the party. They’re beholden to the folks that elected them to that position, and like every other decision they make, how they decide to use their vote will be taken into account the next time they’re up for election.
AFAIK, there are only two people who are currently a “superdelegate for life” in the democratic party and thus unbeholden to any voters: Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Given what they’ve been through, I think I can deal with them being unbeholden. Every other superdelegate, though, was elected somewhere, and if they want to stay a superdelegate, they’re going to answer for how they vote.
From Jacob Heilbrunn’s nonsense in the Post:
The poor man, silenced by the VLWC.
Bravo on this action — it is about damn time. Now throw him out of the caucus — its not as if the Senate can pass anything other than Republican enablement in any case.
Peter,
That is so terribly naive. You think that these people will remember some vote in a convention which may not even be recorded? I have a bridge for you.
Duly noted! But, the convention votes aren’t recorded by individual votes IIRC… *g*
I don’t know who Jacob Heilbrunn is but he is so 2000 and 4.
I wouldn’t want to take a chance. Hillary has been vetted. She’s got plans, brainpower, and guts. And perhaps more importantly, we know there is nothing Rove can accuse her of doing illegally.
Well, he could accuse anyone of anything, but it’s melted butter with Hill.
Is it my computer? Moderation? or some gremlin stealing my comments?
”During this cycle, however, that fifth can make or break a candidate’s chances, considering they’re not beholden to any candidate by We the People’s votes…”
Certainly the retired ones aren’t. But current Congressional Officials certainly are…almost as much as the nominated delegates are. The Reps from Illinois are going to be under a lot of pressure to vote for Obama, a Hispanic Rep from LA is going to have to vote for Clinton.
I don’t like the system either, but it does have one benefit, I suppose. If for some reason there is a ”meltdown” of a campaign due to scandals that emerge, or health problems, etc. There is a fall-back on the ”party elders” that can then pick a replacement. I’d much prefer it be proportionate representation, though (I don’t even like caucuses) and that the primaries were held closer to the Convention and General Election.
You don’t think that if a vote is close, someone is not going to ask that the delegation be polled?
*G*
That reminds me of Michigan’s ‘firewall’ that John Engler promised Chimpy.
-G
Super delegates… very bad idea. Very undemocratic. Very unnecessary.
If something weird happens, and sh8t happens, the party can do something ad hoc.
Considering it will be close, I’ll cede on that… ;-)
I don’t think so.
So what actually happens if it goes to the convention? How would that work?
SanderO, I spent years living in Chicago. I can deal with someone calling me naive about some things, but not politics.
A “secret” backroom deal would not remain secret. Those on the losing end of things would dig and dig to find out who screwed them, and make sure that the political opponents of such folks in the next election had all the gory details.
I see you at 170. Try a hard refresh?
from Kevion Drum:
OVERTIME….Reuters reports (via email, no link) that the Obama campaign is predicting a dead-even delegate race when primary season is over:
By the time the last primary is held June 7, Obama’s advisers project he will have 1,806 delegates to 1,789 for New York Senator Hillary Clinton, according to a document outlining the scenario that was inadvertently attached to a release on delegate counts from yesterday’s Super Tuesday primaries.
OK, fine. But if they’re going to accidentally attach internal projections to press releases, how about attaching the details too? Inquiring minds want to know which states Obama thinks he can win and which ones he doesn’t.
In any case, I guess this means that superdelegates can now expect the Obama folks to start recruiting them like high school football stars. And wouldn’t you like to see the memo for that game plan?
My hubby is so pissed. Between the electorial college and the super delegates he says the people don’t really have much say.
He is coming for Book Salon this Sunday, book for purchase here.
Some serious horse trading will be going on.
The site is still buggie and we never got our edit back.
When can we officially complain?
Electoral College, and, I agree with him…!
Peter I meant you are naive to think that voters will hold some super delegate accountable by voting in some future election. People rarely vote one issue like that years later.
The same way it did last time, except that we won’t know in advance which candidate will win.
Everyone will add up the “pledged delegates” — folks for whom the law and party rules require that they vote in a certain way on the first ballot. From there, the two campaigns will be campaigning hard for the votes of the superdelegates, to make up the difference.
The chair starts to call the roll: “Alabama”
Alabama replies: “Madame/Mister Chairperson, the great state of Alabama, home to . . . (honorifics omitted) . . . casts its votes as follows: A for Hillary Clinton (pause for cheers) and B for Barack Obama (more cheers).”
Then both campaigns will look at their lists, and wonder who voted which way. Did they lose any votes they expected, or pick up any surprises?
On to Alaska . . . and so on down the line.
They’ll work the convention floor like the party whips work the House and Senate — twisting an arm here, offering a favor there . . . until someone hits the magic number and the balloons come down.
This is OT but worth reading if you have the patience to do so, not exactly easy reading.http://www.geocities.com/moonhoabinh/Unrevolution.html
“Obama had 141,079 votes cast for him in MN caucuses. Clinton collected “only” 68,033. I say “only” because she pulled more votes than there were GOP caucus attenders who numbered 61,771. Hillary beat the entire GOP caucus by 6,262 votes. She whomped the GOP “winner” by 42,139 votes.”
This was actually how things occurred in most of the States…both in actual Primary Votes and Caucuses. Except for Arizona, Alabama and Utah the Democrats had vastly larger turnouts than the Republicans. Usually the winning Democrat had more votes than the top three Republicans COMBINED! Sometimes the #2 Democrat outpolled both the #1+#2 Republican.
That’s the real hidden story of these elections…and something almost utterly ignored by the MSM. They look at the percentages within each primary and for some reason fail to remember that the Republicans are pulling in vastly smaller actual supporters. A McCain “landslide” in New York was only a third as many votes that Hillary got and half that of Obamas turnout!
This is true primary after primary, caucus after caucus.
BTW! John Edwards polled more in New York and New Jersey than RUDY GIULIANI!
Barack’s mentor lost his superdelegate vote?
Does Hadissa still have one?
So we are not even relevant. Can we pass out popcorn to the delegates maybe a whisper in the ear or two?
I’m in favor of this approach. Don’t let them “run out the clock” and expect to avoid prosecution.
Ford should never have pardoned Nixon BEFORE trial. If there had been a complete, public prosecution and conviction it would have been a lot harder for the SAME criminals to get power again.
Namely, Cheney and Rumsfeld….
You know who I’m talkin’ about.
1806 vs. 1789? That totals 3595.
I think they must already be inclusing SOME super-delegates in that count.
A candidate needs a majority of the combined delegate and superdelegate votes to secure the nomination. Democratic delegates from state caucuses and primaries number 3,253, resulting in a total number of votes of 4,049. The total number of delegate votes needed to win the nomination is 2,025.
So there must be 342 Super Delegates already allocated in that total number on line one. In addition it’s not clear whether that total includes Edwards delegates or is primarily based on interviews with Superdelegates?
Obama would need 219 more (super)delegates and Clinton 236.
Sure, we’re still relevant. We elected some 80% of the delegates directly via primaries and caucuses, and the rest indirectly when they ran for some other office. Sounds like we had a bit of input into the process.
The other way in which we are relevant is that if things are quite close, it is likely that no one will get a majority on the first ballot. After that, all the delegates are free (in theory) to vote for whomever they wish. In the weeks after the last primary and before the convention, if that’s what it looks like, I would imagine that lots of people will be making their feelings known to their state’s delegates as to who might be a good choice to support on a second ballot — hold tight to the first candidate, switch to a sceond, or perhaps look elsewhere. John Edwards? Al Gore? Someone else.
folks for whom the law and party rules require that they vote in a certain way on the first ballot.
By law? Is it really true that the pledged delegates are legally bound to vote for a particular person on the first ballot? I can’t imagine an enforceable law that would accomplish that.
The list would be extensive with this bunch of criminals… However, I think many have already curtailed any plans of touring the Arc de Triomphe or the Parthenon…! *g*
So, you’re saying I’d better sign myself up as a delegate in Michigan, because how I use my “uncommitted” vote might actually matter?
Yay. I almost feel engaged in the process. /snort
(sorry, I’m still pissed at my state Democratic party for the primary fiasco)
Kenner, City Hall….have I lost the thread here? If not and if it’s as bad as you say, then the person should get called on it. Could you help us help you?
Maybe GWB could be coaxed into taking a victory lap in Europe.
Hopefully Interpol will be waiting with open arms.
To The Hague!
Thanks, I feel so much better…*gasp*
It’s true.
I’m not a lawyer, but it was once explained to me as a binding contract between a candidate for a delegate and the voters who vote for that candidate, unless you run as an “uncommitted” delegate.
I’ve never heard of a case where a pledged delegate had their vote thrown out for going against the way they were pledged to vote, and have no idea what the penalty would be — except to have their vote thrown out and be stripped of their credentials at the convention.
Kind of like Short Ride Joe, now that I think about it . . . *g*
Heh, don’t pass Go and do not collect $200… War criminal would suit me just fine…
Peterr- I kinda remember reading something a long time ago that the “rules” as to what the delegates could do on first vote varied according to state- some binding, some not.
My point is that we should hold back on our pledges of party allegiance until we get some respect, and Id happily settle for:
— A progressive VP
— A pledge of a progressive as the next SCotUS appointment
— A “post-election impeachment process (this is allowed under the Constitution) for those Republicans who have violated the Constitution”
But, most of all, I’d like to see them bring the bastards to justice.
Even worse, I just heard Andy Cooper say on CNN that “record numbers of voters cast ballots in Republican and Democratic primaries yesterday” without any reference to the huge overage of the Democrats. This story is being deliberately unreported, imho, for purposes of claiming a close (and thus easily stolen) election this fall.
Point taken. Quite frankly it would take me a few thousand words to explicate what I think about this. My use of the word irrelevant, I suppose, is the wrong word to use in terms of affecting candidate choice and should be applied to the after the fact elected official as witnessed by the literal 100’s of calls I have made to those in office, the ending of war, the starting of war, the bankruptcy bill, the medicare bill, and on and on ad infinitum, the goddamn cowardice of these people absolutely astounds me and I feel myself going off so I will stop now. sorry for the rant.
But we know the only place he’s going is the new ranch in Paraguay.
But Cheney has not been nearly as transparent about is future plans. Secretive fuck he is.
I’m guessing Argentina (unless we have an extradition agreement with them.)
Worthwhile rant, Maddy.
Could be. I’m not as up on these things as I used to be when I worked on Paul Simon’s campaign, and a lot has no doubt changed since then.
I’m sure that if things stay this tight in this race, though, we’ll ALL learn much more about this subject.
Kenner, La?
good point teddy
Maddy,
Rants are good. They blow off steam. I like what you have to say.
I’ve got no problem with a little rant now and then. Been known to do it myself from time to time.
*g*
He will be going to a secret 20 foot thick bunker in Wyoming with state of the art medical facilities-his head will appear in 2024 as a candidate for the republican party.
Future news service
we got the scoop
to all ((((((((((((((((((((((((g))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) thanks
What a shame, Wyoming is such a beautiful place.
But if Cheney’s head ever explodes it will become a hazardous waste area.
Peterr- no doubt we will!
And, I am not up to teh google challenge on this one, because if I went there, it would probably be a very long evening. Just my vague recollection.
Let me check my sources!
If this had been Britain, Lieberman’s office would now be the caretaker’s deputy’s toilet in the House of Commons.
Kick the fucker out of the caucus, officially.
Harry Reid is playing an extremely weak hand, he does not have a true majority on anything that counts, because Lieberman votes with the R’s on anything relating to foreign policy, security, or presidential power. Also there are several additional Bush Dogs who often defect.
That said, he’s extremely poor at playing the hand he’s been dealt. He doesn’t effectively use the main power that he has (control of the floor).
Good heavens! What a..a..sensible thing to do!! Wow! Ya mean the Democrats are actually starting to show some sense?
Other commenters are right, Lieberman should never have been there in the first place, but it’s very cool that Democrats realized this and responded!
Awesome!!!
Now, let’s strip him of his committee chairmanship too.
bigger q? will all the dems who typically can’t get their tongues far enough in his mouth, will THEY switch or stay?????
i know i’m late, but i hate lieberman so much, and this just makes me smile
He’ll never keep his seat in the new congress. Question is will dems even let him keep his committee assignments. He probably will be sitting in the Larry Craig chair of invisibility.
ha!
LOL! Joe-Lie’s BFF…*g*
I like the way Nelson thinks. It’s great that his superdelegate spot won’t be filled. Sort of a penalty for allowing him to get re-elected.
Pick up a couple of seats in the Senate and we can tell him to go screw himself. We won’t need his vote to keep control of the Senate.
Wait, I’m confused. Perhaps this question is answered above, but:
Why did Lieberman still have superdelegate status? Why wasn’t it stripped when we kicked him out of the party?
His status to be anything in the party apart from pariah should’ve been kaput at that point
Why would he have a “superdelegate” status at the Democratic Convention anyway? He is not a Democrat. He does not belong to the Democratic Party. Just because he pretends to caucus with them, doesn’t make him a democrat and he should not have any say in who we nominate.
Sucks for Clinton.
Yes! Excellant news! *snoopy dance* Poor gurney-Joe. Oh boo hoo.
Heh, heh…. heh, heh heh.hahahaha.ok, that is a great laugh.
Poor Zell Loserman. Bwahahahaha.