On a conference call today, Howard Wolfson of the Clinton campaign has said that Hillary Clinton will appear in a Fox News debate on February 11 in Washington, DC.
After Roger Ailes made a joke comparing Barack Obama to Osama Bin Laden, Harry Reid rightfully nixed a Democratic Fox debate in Nevada:
In a joint letter faxed today, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Tom Collins, the head of the Nevada Democratic Party, informed Fox News executive producer Marty Ryan of the decision.
"A month ago, the Nevada Democratic Party entered into a good faith agreement with FOX News to co-sponsor a presidential debate in August,” Reid and Collins said in the letter. "This was done because the Nevada Democratic Party is reaching out to new voters and we strongly believe that a Democrat will not win Nevada unless we find new ways to talk to new people. To say the least, this was not a popular decision. But it is one that the Democratic Party stood by.”
"However, comments made last night by FOX News President Roger Ailes in reference to one of our presidential candidates went too far,” the letter went on. "We cannot, as good Democrats, put our party in a position to defend such comments. In light of his comments, we have concluded that it is not possible to hold a Presidential debate that will focus on our candidates and are therefore canceling our August debate. We take no pleasure in this, but it is the only course of action.”
I asked Wolfson if this puts Obama in an awkward position considering how awful Ailes’ comments were, especially in light of Reid’s decision. Wolfson defended the choice to accept the Fox debate because Obama has appeared on Fox News himself recently. Which is true, he has, but it doesn’t excuse how many awful lies and distortions Fox has peddled in order to damage Obama, Clinton and Democrats in general.
Fox is not a news outlet, it’s an openly partisan opinion factory and the Democrats should not be legitimizing them (and allowing them to recruit Democratic viewers to propagandize to) by doing this.
Related posts:
- Clinton Talks Positively About Snowe’s Trigger
- Semi-liveblog Of The Debate To Allow Debate To Begin In The Senate
- FDL Action Launches 40,000 Call Phone Bank to Nevada Democrats Targeting Harry Reid and the Public Option
- Senate Health Care Debate Liveblog
- Blanche Lincoln “Witholding” Decision to Send Health Bill to Debate
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Oh, Lordy.
Thanks Jane…. as a wavering former Edwards person… that helps with the decision.
Hello Jane.
Yes you are right. I guess the clintons will argue that bottom feeding for votes is what one has to do but I do hope obama can manage to stay away and make hay.
Obama should nix this. Fox won’t run a debate…they’ll run an inquisition and try to destroy BOTH candidates.
Huckabee has won in West Virginia. Oh boy.
You make a deal with the devil and you get your ass kicked down the road. Is Hillary just desperate? What is her thinking here? What is Bill’s thinking here? What is her strategist’s thinking here?
Wow, one day after Karl Rove is brought on.
-D
What QuakerGirl said. WTF???
Whom will Hillary be ‘debating’?
Just a coincidence.
My bloodsugar level is plummeting. I’ll get some lunch and lurk. Looking forward to what you have to say. Geese! What a day!
Oh for pete’s sake, who cares!? This is petty.
Are you really trying to whip up new things to be outraged about?
Whom will Hillary be ‘debating’?
Britt Hume and Chris Wallace?
Fox is not a news outlet, it’s an openly partisan opinion factory and the Democrats should not be legitimizing (and recruiting Democratic viewers to propagandize) by doing this-JH
There is no news outlet in America, there is no journalism in America(mainstream)
Great comedy though.
Seems strange that Hil would agree to a debate without seeing if she is going to have someone to debate? What’s the strategy if Obama refuses?
FOX could be news, in a sense. And a Twinkie could be bread, in a sense.
Probably a good time to bring up three things:
Rupert has gotten downright chummy with Clinton in the last several years.
Rupert’s first choice, Rudy, is out of the race.
Rupert was a kingmaker for Blair’s first election in the UK.
Good point. It will just be a backyard chat amongst friends with she and the Fox “shrews”.
macjack
Well now, that leads directly to the Whitehouse. In a sense…
And the fourth thing to bring up might be that the NY Post endorsed Obama.
Twinky defense for past transgressions
Just when Fox News is cratering Sen. Clinton throws a lifeline.
I am more glad than ever that I didn’t cast a vote for her.
Enjoy Ruperts’ money Sen. Clinton.
-G
C-Span should be the forum for debate………. C-SPAN 4 The Candidate’s Channel, brought to you the viewers as a public service funded by, the tax payer! Tell Fox and the like… screw!!!
The issue is pushing back on the media
Faux is a arm of the Repug party…. by going on that network you feed the beast. We need to starve that beast and watch it die on the vine.
If it were me , I would go out of my way to slam them on the air on their own broadcast..
‘You Talkin’ To ME?”.
Well, the networks early announcement of that will obviously mean it will start a nationwide sweep! ;-)
Too many mixed metaphors before coctail hour
Well, the NY Post did endorse Obama so as always, it appears that Rupert is trying to play all sides.
if clinton goes on fox for a debate she is lost to me as a democrat
I will never ever support her for anything she ever does
I suppose a debate on FOX might be ok if the Neo-Kon Kids there promised to behave themselves. In writing. In detail.
In a discussion with a fellow firedog on the phone last night .. I said tomorrow will be the last day Hillary and probably Barack speak to or like a Democrat. Let down Wednesday morning will be the new beginning of running to the right by candidates.. Only Joe Lieberman and Harry Reid will be proud..
Unless Barack wins and his fans stick to him like fundies on a Goper.. This whole sham of DLC/PNAC/AIPAC/MIC/Murdoch incorporated primary is over.. It’s make Blue America work for us or sign up to be a recipient of Heifer International aid and a micro loan from a rich Chinese kid in a few years.
Good point–had forgotten.
Too many mixed metaphors before coctail hour
Dear nomolos:
‘Round here, cocktail hour starts at sun-up.
Love,
Senator Kit
BombedBond.It’s five o’clock somewhere
Can you imagine the little Fundy weasel as the top dog by the end of today? Oh boy! Ass Limbo of reich wing radio fame will eat all his oxycontins for dinner.
Why shouldn’t she appear on Faux? It’s perfect.
She’s been fishing in the “triangulation” hole for most of the past five years; why stop now?
I’m sure there’s a BIG conservative catfish down there somewhere. :o)
Why on earth has Obama gone on FOX? Clinton too, but I mean Obama has been slammed by FOX.
oops can’t spell cocktail too many mixed drinks
so oboma’s doing it too?
*what to do*
It’s Super Tuesday today…not Super Toddy! LOL!
Can you wrap your head around the fact that Obama has appeared there too?
Just once put the Hillary Hatred in park and try to be fair.
Oh the Redstaters are eating their own over this. First Grandpa Fred quits on them, now McCain and Paul supporters flock to Huckabbee to deny Romney the WV win. Poor RedStaters. ;-)
Two crying “events” have to be followed up by a tuff tuff tuff tuff tuff gesture.
“I’ll go on Fox to debate. As another tuff tuff tuff tuff tuff President said: Bring it on!”
Laugh
Is he? Maybe he just hasn’t ‘announced’ ‘yet’.
Nope, the old ones are working pretty good. Strangely, some people are always convinced that prejudice is worth getting worked up over. I feel pity for you that you don’t.
OT, did everyone catch DCI Hayden cop to waterboarding 3 detainees ? Via reuters
I have mixed feelings about this. Although Fox is…well..Fox..there are millions of people who only watch it, so why not go on and get some ideas out there that those people never hear. JMHO
It’s really quite sad. *wiping tears of joy from my eyes* LOL
Well now…I try to limit my language to the less than extreme (my co-workers will tell you otherwise, but they’re a bunch of lying a$$holes). I hope that Mr Obama will say not only “No,” but “fuck no.” Fuck Fox. Hillary can debate herself for all I care. She might even win.
Yes, and they all adhered to Mukasey’s position regarding legality depending on special “circumstances”…illegal except when it isn’t.
Hi folks…
You’re right Jane.
This is bait that either candidate should even consider. Even if they were privy to the questions prior to this event.
Walk away from this Hillary, it’s not good….
I was watching C-SPAN earlier while the Senate was on break. Pentagon spokesperson would not answer one question about this and quickly ended the presser to boot.
Uh oh! The Regime is in denial again!!!!!
Hmmm.
I wonder what the thinking is.
Maybe the Clinton camp is betting that Obama will say no to a FOX debate.
At which point they will say, what kind of candidate says he will UNITE the country, yet will refuse to appear on a network which conservatives favor?
Just trying to guess what the thinking is….
Suggested FOX slogans:
“I Can’t Believe It’s Not News.”
“As Close to Actual News as is Humanly Possible.”
“News-like Information From Around the Globe.”
“Our Lawyers Said We Can Legally Call This Shit News.”
Well all you Clinton supporters whaddaya think of her now. This is a prelude to what will be IF she gets the nomination. She grows more pathetic everyday!
Can’t wait to hear the spin.
All Obama supporters should email him and tell to tell fox noise to shove it!
…She might even win.
Hee!
fwiw – Grover Norquist was just on MSNBC – and he was talking.
otoh, I have no idea whether he said anything, because – it was *Grover Norquist*, fer chrissakes. I really wasn’t paying attention…
It’s also Fat Tuesday! Party on.
What was listed on why not to attend this event should be Obama’s listed objections to this “event”….
Why give the opposition (& I don’t even mean Hillary) a chance to swat at our people….
ditto here…in CA and trying to decide whether to vote for Edwards or one of the suvivors. I dont vote for democrats who debate on FOX.
When I ran a Communication Dept for a major non-profit in CA I never allowed my top officials to go on FOX after one of them got the usual cornholing and shut down from Hannity.
Fool me once —
Damn, just when I was about to make up my mind for Obama.
I vote for the last one! Faux News — They “Report,” We Deride.
Do you think there would be any points made worth taking for consumption by the sleepwalkers that are not tainted. Just asking.
Why the hell is he on the teevee?
Whenever the Norquist visage appears on the screen, the chyron should show an image of a bathtub.
A Twinkie isn’t bread? :(
LOL. Thanks for the laugh. My sentiments exactly.
Hopefully Obama will respond with a reasonable comrpmise. Perhaps Joe Lieberman on the ticket.
-G
It’s only January and I want to throw myself into a lava pit.
“News-like Information From Around the Globe.”
winner right there, I think – because “Our Lawyers Said We Can Legally Call This Shit News.” I think went out the window in an earlier court case…
Nooz iz Phun.
There are no legit news outlets, only Republican owned media.
Yea I read the article and yes to what you said. Anything else I would have to say would not make it past the mods.
No problem 1 out….. thousand more come in. Enjoy!
Fox hasn’t appeared on our home screen in 8 years.
We’re not about to put it back on now.
I can honestly say I have no idea what Grover Norquist looks like. I’m sure I should learn but why do things to give myself heartburn and indigestion?
Hillary knows Obama has given Fox–for the most part–the cold shoulder, so she’s setting him up a with lesser of two evils choice. If he refuses the debate, she’ll say he’s ducking her. If he agrees, he’ll look unprincipled before his supporters (who agree with the thrust of this post).
I think this is a bluff. Obama should simply counter this with an equivalent offer to offset the Fox appearance/frequency in way that would force her to fold. Basically, it sounds like a bad idea for both, but Clinton wins the hand if Obama backs out without raising the stakes.
Hey, I’m open. Right now that and beer are two of my cereal servings a day.
One day, I will go to a drive-thru daquiri place in Louisiana.
As God is my witness. ;)
good man
Happy Faschnaut Day!
You too. Keep up the good work. Do us a favor and tell ‘em you’re for McCain.
DING! DING! DING!!!!
It’s February or no?
I have to give credit to FOX for most of the time being first on the scene of breaking news stories like plane crashes and large explosions, that type of thing. So I guess they are good fire truck chasing. I think they did a better job than the other two on covering Katrina. So a democratic debate on FOX could end up being a train wreck or a house fire, but it would probably be interesting to watch.
I’m sure it will be spun and twisted, but it gives voters who otherwise have probably never actually seen or listened to them, a chance to see them and evaluate them..sometimes that goes a long way. Fox cannot control everyone.
He should stand on principle, that is the better example and the one people want to see, at least the ones I know. JMHO
James Spongbob Dobson says he’ll “never vote for McCain”.
The GOP crack-up gains speed.
-G
I haven’t turned that calendar page yet.
-G
Oh egads…..
enough with the candidate hacking. Put the axes down, breath, have a cup of tea, coffee or alcoholic beverage of your choice. We have two wonderful candidates on our side that will represent the party proudly and being such, I hate to see them considering wallowing in the shallow end of the gene pool that is Fox news. I would much rather see debates from women’s groups, students, unions, families, etc.
OH I will keep working for Obama alright, you keep on using those wingnut talking points, they are very becoming…NOT
A Twinkie isn’t bread? :(
Sure it is – just with a wee bit longer
shelf-lifehalf-life…Kinda like Cheez-Whiz (a staple in every meal here at chez-jayt). I figure with all of the preservatives, I’ll never grow old…
Surprising that Obama would appear on Fox after the Madrassa dust-up and the Osama smears. Not sure what other appearances he has had other than the post O’Reilly-in-NH kerfuffle (wednesday after the Monday broadcast by O’Reilly) a month ago. FWIW HRC was on that same broadcast.
Bad strategy on Obama for opening the door.
Mmmmm, Beeeeer.
Presumably the Clinton campaign has calculated that Obama can’t decline to participate in the Fox debate. Can he? He should, certainly, because if their is one thing all democrats can agree on it is the absurdity and fraudulence of Fox News.
Obama can only blow this by agreeing to participate. The Clinton’s have handed him an issue, and it would be foolish for him to give it away by accepting the Fox offer.
Amen!
No mas.
I will have no harsh words for any *Democrats for the rest of the day.
-G
*Asterisk denotes the Lieberman exception
I agree with LS. Considering the age of the typical FOX watcher, they may give democratic health care positions a real listen.
OT.
Stock market showing great support for shithead’s budget and stimulus package. Down 300
Re admitting to “waterboarding three suspects”:
Did you happen to read the whole statement — carefully? Just wondering, because that admission that does not rule out the possibility that they actually waterboarded 10, or 20, or 50. Have they really claimed that it was only three?
When dealing with claims by this administration, we have a right to be cynical. And isn’t CIA truth an oxymoron anyway?
how low can it go?
I just can’t see Obama accepting the Fox noise debate.
It will devestate most of his grassroots supporters and dnors, he HAS to know that !
Maybe, but it’s too much like collaborating with the enemy. It helps legitimize Fox, which should be repeatedly shown to be merely a propoganda vehicle. The people who can’t be reached except through Fox are that way for a reason.
I hope Val can cook.
Why has Obama only given Fox a ‘for-the-most-part’ cold shoulder to Fox News rather than a complete cold shoulder? Why has Clinton accepted a debate on Fox? This is very disappointing. Democratic politicians must find the courage to aggressive confront a sick, decadant, corrupt, and I would add, depraved, media, not only Fox but other corporate propaganda outlets as well. This is not good.
Still trying to find out if I can vote for Edwards today in CA. After hearing this news, I might vote for Edwards anyway, even if it is thrown out, as a protest.
Obama can fix this by saying he will be glad to debate Clinton, but not on Fox, though his lack of a complete boycott will weaken his position, at least in terms of stupid debating points.
See, I thought I was being a little too harsh and mean in calling both Obama and HRC weak tea, and imperfect and probably inadequate leaders for what confronts the country. I don’t anymore.
New New Better Congress! Threw in some last minute bucks to Pera, Edewards and some others yesterday, hope it does some good.
Good point, I am just so done with media, my judgment and perception are skewed by my desire for truth and constructive dialoge-not Fox strong points
I just got back from the voting booth. I voted for Edwards. I just can’t seem to let go. I know, next time will be different, but at least I had this one thrill.
“The Lieberman Exception,” a new novel by GregB, movie rights sold to Viacom, starring Michael Caine, Liv Ullman, Julie Christie….
GSD, you can write a Ludlum-esque novel real quick, can’t you?
You can certainly cast your vote for Edwards in California. He’s on the ballot. Plenty of people voted absentee for him, I’m sure. The votes will be counted, and he might gain a couple of delegates.
heh. Non-issue.
(or it would be if I had any idea whatsoever what you could possibly be inferring – *g*)
What’s it got to do with wingnuts to say that your offensive comments drive people away from the cause you supposedly support? I haven’t made up my mind yet, but based on threads over the last few days, you can tell that quite a number of FDL pups are Clinton supporters. What good do you think it does, in regards to the goal of defeating Republicans, to piss off Democrats?
I agree that it’s too much like collaborating with the enemy. But I disagree that the Fox viewers are totally unreachable. By appearing together and debating on Fox, even with the assumption that the questions will include the usual group of sand bagging questions, can still go a long way to showing folks that neither HRC nor Obama are evil monsters to be avoided at all costs.
Swell,
KKKKarl will be able to either ask her questions or serve as a pundit and “analyze” what she has to say. I wonder what kind of relationship KKKKarl has with Mark Penn.
Oh well.
Randy Rhodes on now and Thom Hartmann was it the studio at the same time (at least for a bit). Interesting combo.
Of course, I had contributed to some good primary opponents before yesterday, including Edwards and Pera. I do not like this celebrity fascination with presidency. Whoever we get will unlikely be up to the task, both because of who they are, and fact that president alone cannot fix the problems Bush/cheney and GOP/weak Dem Congress have created. Obama or HRC may surprise us, and I hope whoever gets in will surprise us, but it is foolish to focus too much on presidency.
Liebermole’s part will be played by a Droopy Dog animated stand-in.
As I understand it, Ds have to get about 20% in a given district to get a delegate.
Has anyone heard from Millineryman today yet.
Well, I hold your opinion in high regard, but based on the quality of most of the shows, not to speak of the news, I don’t know if the effort is worth the negative effects.
I think the threshold is 15%. Or at least it has been in the past.
One can only hope Obama’s people don’t play into and appease Rupert Murdoch’s right wing organization in this manner.
You state the obvious (and it obviously needs repeating to Hillary’s people) that Fox is no more than a Republican propaganda machine.
More ugly maneuvering by Hillary, lobbyist posing as ad man Wolfson & co.
Obama campaign as of now says they have made no decisions regarding debates. Time for pressure.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..85111.html
This Faux event could literally be twisted and turned to the advantage of the opposition…
It’s like handing a knife for the person who would gladly stab you in the back….
Just for a refresher, in case you forgot what Faux Noise is about, for your viewing pleasure.
And what says they get over 3,000,000 original viewers? O’Falafel gets about 2.5 last time I checked(and he is the highest rated by far). I’d wager that most of Faux Noise viewers are loyal viewers that will watch O’Falafel and Sean Insanity in a row.
Thank you. I don’t personally watch anything on Faux Noise but know many who do and many of them do consider Chris Wallace and Brit Hume as still being viable journos. I think both candidates can smack down either of those “gentlemen” quite nicely.
And in all honesty, could they be any more superficial in their questions and coverage than we’ve already seen with Punkinhaid, Tweety, the Beard, or Brian Williams?
I thought Obama won the Hollywood debate hands down–especially when the topic turned to Iraq. He shouldn’t shy away from debates–team Hillary’s hope–but like George W. Bush in 2004, he should choose the setting carefully.
I’m sure if Hillary is debating on Fox, the terms have been clearly defined. She’s not stupid.
should be a no brainer
The way Schuster described it on KO night before last, each congressional district gets 4 or 5 delegates, depending on # of Ds in the district. That would mean 20% would be the minimum vote to get a delegate in that district.
Now, I am far from an expert on this, so I’m posting it because I’d like someone who really does know to correct me.
Yes, That is why I have a problem. I understand what LS said and he ahs a point but at the end of the day it comes back to this for me, and it is not nuanced in my mind.
Jane –
I wouldn’t necessarily call it “Hillary Hatred.” Perhaps more like reality based on observation of past events.
oh cool – Romney saying that McCain cut a dirty deal with Huckabee to win in W.Va.
I suggest that if there are any more debates involving both Romney and McCain, that they should both be forced to walk through metal-detectors, thoroughly frisked, bomb-smellin’ dogs brought out, etc…
(This was in response to Comment 42. Sorry…)
eCahn… what happened at the BARf Ass. luncheon with Rangel?
We’re NOT going to change any Faux Spews viewers minds. 3,000,0000 is only 1% of the U.S. population.
Let that 1% twist in the wind. They are about to be “Left Behind” by the rest of the country.
Also, of course, Murdick is sucking up to Hill, he needs the continued corruption of the FCC to exist!
I miss the Simpsons, but Faux will not appear on any of our TVs.
Given the treatment Clinton has had at the hands of msnbc
I’m sure she doesn’t see any difference between appearing on Fox and the NBC/msnbc debates. And I don’t think she is alone in that opinion
BOth Senator Clinton and Senator Obama have been interviewing alot lately on FOX News. Apparently neither has turned down invitations lately.
It just might be a good thing to have a FOX debate. It certainly will be a great contrast to the usual food fight the Republic’s have. If we can peal a few more right-leaning Independents over to the Democratic side, I’m all for it. I think any debate makes both of our candidates stronger, so have at it I say.
Six months ago, I would have agreed with you. But the past six months, MSNBC has become so gratingly awful and filled with misogynistic, totally over the top punditry, that it makes less and less sense to pretend that ANY mainstream network is worse than another. They are all horrible. So I can’t see any reason to reward the other networks at Foxes expense. They haven’t deserved it. Maybe the best move would be to move everything over to CSPAN and boycott all of them.
Interesting. Is Hillary hoping to steal votes from McCain? ‘Course, that’s assuming she’s the candidate after today… ;-)
Ah well, maybe McCain and Romney would allow Bill Moyers to moderate their debate. Never mind, he’s far to fair and objective.
He reminds me more of a melting clown.
do you even have any data on the age of fox watcher or are you just talking?
“Fox is not a news outlet, it’s an openly partisan opinion factory and the Democrats should not be legitimizing them (and allowing them to recruit Democratic viewers to propagandize to) by doing this.”
Exactly.
creepy
if she is saying she’s going to be on fox and oboma refuses, oboma needs to embarrass her out of appearing
I want fox to get NO democratic air time and no democratic viewers
This is all moot, since Obama’s gonna cleanup today.
Uhhhh….yea. Could happen, right?
Let Hillary debate Sean Hannity, then, if she must appear on her buddy Rupert’s propaganda machine. But Obama should stay away, following the direction of our esteemed Senate Majority Leader.
If this is something even Harry Reid’s willing to take a stand on — jeez, enough said.
Neither Obama or Hillary are going to snatch Republican voters.
Heh. Sometimes the David Lynch in me takes over.
oboma makes it a a landslide if she goes on faux opinion simply by saying she’s in murdocks pocket
it’s dispicable she’s gonna give them air time
Huckleberry in WV? Wow. Poor Willard, all that money and no love. Even if Huck wins no more today, that’s gotta smart.
We are now looking forward to the HRC or Obama debates with McCain.
What is Senator Clinton thinking?
this is not about reaching Fox viewers. Is there really such a thing as aFox viewer, someone who doesnt watch any other channel–I mean besides Dick Cheney, who mandated Fox News be turned in in his hotel room.
Any so-called Fox viewer who seriously is interested in a Dem candidate will tune in to a debate on another network.
What we are talking about is legitimizing their fake news organization by appearing with them on their station and allowing them to trumpet the fact, as they will. then use it to further the lie of “fair and balanced.”
This isnt about reaching people. It is about feeding their reputation or tearing it down.
Romney I think had about 48% of the vote, but McCain gave all his delegates to Huckster to deny Mittens a win.
Doesn’t any one else think this maybe a foolish move on the part of Hillary? Obama has some serious cross-over appeal. Wont the mostly independent and republican audience be overly sympathetic to Barack. Even if she wins – she could lose. It comes off as desperate move, but I’m not sure why. I get the impression that Obama has the momentum coming out of Super Tuesday (even if he loses). She needs to get him on the debate stage as much as possible. She has been stronger there. Although, he’s getting much better. I think going on Fox may only remind these people why they dislike her so much.
You can vote for anyone on the ballot, but for that person to get delegates they have to receive 15% of the votes in your CD
Laissez Les Bon Temps Roulez (Let the good times roll) Happy Mardi Gras
This is just the sort of thing (this Fox debate business) which I find so irritating about Hillary Clinton.
Yeah, so much in Murdoch’s pocket that his US “flagship” newspaper, the NY Post endorsed Obama.
Damn, Obama went on Pox? He had shut them out completely for a about year. I guess he thinks he sent a message not to mess with him. Bill O’Vibrator still hasn’t gotten any Obama time which is good, even though Falafel boy ambushed an Obama speech recently.
Obama has shown some good instincts on how to handle to Noize Machine. Hillary’s been going on Pox a lot, and all along, so she’s obviously trying stir things up a little with this. Don’t take the bait Obama!
My mom mostly votes Democratic but she prefers the Fox channel because of the “Layout”. Go figure.
or
is Senator Clinton thinking?
Very good. ;0)
It was New York Assn of Business Economists, not NY Bar. Learned a lot of stuff. One is that the reason why food stamps & unemployment insurance are not in the stimulus plan is because Paulson told Rangel that W would veto any such bill.
There seems to be quite a two-way street between Rangel & Paulson. R told P that there would be no work this year on soc sec privatization or Medicare “reform.”
Rangel seemed disjointed. He had no prepared remarks and at times seemed to mix up a lot of stuff. Don’t know if that’s his normal way, or whether he’s just jammed. One of the people at my table told me that Rangel did 3 fundraisers for Hillary on Saturday night, and Rangel was late to the lunch, having come from a meeting with the Chinese “ambassador,” presumably the one to the U.N. That’s an example of why I found his remarks confusing-they weren’t precise.
I did get a laugh by asking him if he’d share his dinner table conversations, as his wife is supporting Obama. His answer: “No.”
He indicated that not much will happen this year, but they’ll be doing a lot of hearings in preparation for more fundamental work on next year, including trade and other tax issues.
Thinking or perhaps triangulating?
Fox “NEWS”? Good Lord.
That’s right.
always with the triangulation
Even so, it sure makes Huckleberry look smarter than Willard… all those millions and he can’t even hornswoggle republicans in West Virginia?
I guess that when you have more switchbacks than the WV Turnpike even the most inbred fool can figure out you’re full of shit.
The Mark Penn/Clinton machine in action.
We voted early this AM. And it wasn’t for Clinton.
did oboma do anything to get the endorsement?
being endorsed has nothing to do with being a marionette
going on fox is being a marionette, gettng the endorsement is only bad if he did something for murdock to get it
The delegates are issued proportionately based upon differentials and delegate availability. 15% is I believe the amount needed to win a delegate in a two person race where there are four delgates. But that might not be enough in
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/…..322/449186
It would be very hard for Edwards to win a delegate in a three or four delegate race. If there are any six-or-seven delagate districts he might pick up a vote if he was to get over 20%. That would be a 1-2-3 delagate split, or a 1-2-4 split.
Sorry if this has bee noted, but Drudge (I know, I know) has this:
The board of elections failed to deliver voting equipment to polling places ALL OVER LOS ANGELES… Developing…
To me She will be debating in the lair of • Boris Badenov • Natasha Fatale
absent Rocket J. Squirrel and Bullwinkle J. Moose.
From the Wayback Machine ;-)
The Simpsons on Fox “News” and the liberal media
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..ral-media/
The Daily Show in that video was hilarious.
“Obama has “bin-layden” with “all-kada” problems recently.” HA!
True, I think the one thing Obama did for Murdoch to get the endorsement was to not be Senator Clinton.
And by the way, a small nit, but if you support Senator Obama, do you think you could spell his name in the conventional fashion? Since that I believe is how the Senator spells it – with two “a”s rather than one?
It would be respectful to do so.
McCain’s delegates, as instructed by campaign HQ, went to Huckster on the second ballot to prevent a Romney win. More here.
Are these sorts of decisions (Fox debate) the kinds of decisions we can expect from President Clinton?
All Obama needs to do is set up a few youtubes with a clips of FOX at their most vitriolic nature on Hillary..and say I wont stand for people speaking about Clinton or the Democratic party like that. Talk to the hand..
I live in LA (part time) and I voted. I arrived a little after 7 this morning at an elementary school. everything was already set up and there were plenty of workers there. All the equipment was there (we were using the punch card) and I had no issues.
OT – Regarding the waterboarding news: CIA Director General Hayden still wears his military uniform. Is he still in the Army? If so, does ordering torture in any way violate the UCMJ? Would/should this admission subject him to a court martial?
that would be the air force…not the army.
That’s a minimum…and it depends on whether other candidates are ahead of you and how many delegates they are distributed.
Let’s say that the district was 40%-30%-30% with 5 delegates #1 would get 3 and the other two 1 delegate. But if it’s 50% 35% 15% even with 15% one doesn’t get the delegate – it’s allocated 3-2-0 (not 2-2-1 or 3-1-1).
I can’t see the uproar about all this even if it is Fox at this point. In all honesty, in my opinion only, Hillary has been pilloried by every other cable news and media channel anyway. Her coverage is mostly negative, Obama’s always positive or non existent as they bash Hillary some more. So if she chooses to go on Fox at this stage of my TV viewing it is no worse than appearing on CNN or MSNBC the way they treat her.
Now lets try to be consistent here, can we? Obama, I am told, is the real deal and will attract Republicans and help us all join together, but he cannot debate on Fox according to you? How pray tell do you attract Republicans then? See, this is one of the “fairy tales” about this campaign: the notion that people on the Dem side want to attract republicans and get together and fix problems, when in fact you have no intention of any such thing at all. I am glad Hillary accepted the debate invitation and if Obama truly walks the walk, he will too.
See… she thinks she can stake off all the hillary hating they will be spewing.
Bev Harris at BlackBoxVoting.org is starting to get many similar reports about LA County.
http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-b…..71691.html
Better keep an eye on this one.
And exactly which Democratic primary voter is going to watch Fox?
This debate, like previous years’ FOX debates among Democrats, will be badly lit, full of gotcha questions, and provide out-of-context outtakes to be used as fodder for FOX commentators’ lying throughout the election year. It’s especially dangerous given one of these candidates will very likely be our nominee; all the statements by the other candidate will be used against the eventual winner (think Democratic gubernatorial primary in 2006).
Since when does the “frontrunner” ask for one debate a week for the next month, anyway? I like debates; the more the merrier. But it’s odd Hillary’s team’s asking for them, just saying.
Sacramento’s having problems as well:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forum…..1202237550
Uhhhggg, now I’ve got an ice cream headache ;-)
What a fairytale, indeed. Republicans do not want to “get together and fix problems.” Bush has destroyed any notion of bipartisanship (if there ever was any!) to deal with issues facing this country. If Republicans want to support Democratic initiatives and policies, fine. Otherwise, they’ve blown their chance by propping up that spoiled, petulant, little non-President.
No, FOX is propaganda pure and simple. Hillary should walk away.
The smart move by the Obama camp is to politely say no. I’m sure that Obama has a busy schedule.
Now that Rudy! has retreated to the HoJoe McCain Fluffer Brigade, you just wonder what Roger Ailes has in mind.
Yeah but then what will he say when he appears on Fox News again? I am not happy at all the HRC has agreed to do that, but I don’t think that Obama has clean hands on this one either.
Romney ain’t like them. He’s a nawtherner. Can’t be trusted. Why on God’s Green Earth would anyone from West By God Virginia, Mississippi, LA, and other poor states even consider any candidate from the Republic Party? I know – God, Guns and Guts (other peoples’ guts).
Oops. You’re right. Still, Army or Air Force, they both follow the same rules. Any military law experts out there?
When someone agrees to appear on Fox News, that sort of leaves the impression in my brain that that person is putting their stamp of approval on that organization.
Without Obama- there can BE no debate- end of issue?
Jammer, the point is not the issue of attracting Republicans…but of supporting a right-wing propoganda outlet like Fox.
Folks who wish to see the candidates debate can do so on any other network. I don’t know of ANY area in the United States that ONLY receives Fox. The individuals selected by moderators by Fox would be extremist hacks who would ask “when did you stop supporting terrorists” type questions intended not to bias viewers towards one or the other candidate (bad enough) but to drive the viewers from EITHER candidate.
The Republican base is too busy waiting for the rapture to tune and watch godless Democrats.
Malicious distortion is worse than superficiality.
Everyone who thinks Fox News has much to do with news, raise their hands.
If Clinton and Obama are debating, a lot, particularly the ones from DC, VA and MD.
Obama should definitely decline this one. The only reason Hill wants this is because she’s losing ground rapidly; Obama has absolutely nothing to gain. In fact, Obama could make some real points by refusing.
Yea, they’re not scanning them.
I went to shove mine into the slot and kept waiting for the machine to grab a hold of it and pull it in, but there is no machine, just a plastic bin. They’re loading them up at the end of the night and hauling them down to the Registrars office
Ripe for trickery
Hillary Clinton should be made to write sentences.
Troll.
Obama has more money than Hillary and doesn’t need to give her free teevee through debates.
I can’t I am holding on to my ass.
At least they detected the problems beforehand. I actually used a manual fill-in-the bubble ballot at my Sacramento polling station. It wasn’t crowded at all, plenty of booths and equipment.
Talked with a polling worker on Sunday evening and they said that there will always be a minimum of two officials present with all ballots at any transfer. In most cases there will be four, and often other observers.
Suggested edit
Just as a counter point – If an anti-gay preacher speaks for you are you endorsing his view.
I totally agree with you on the media bias. I watch CNN and they have been so one sided it is almost criminal. There is no one on CNN who puts forth anything positive about Hillary and it is always negative spin. I watch MSNBC sometimes and they are just as bad. So what difference does appearing on Fox make since she is getting no fair coverage on any of the channels as it is.
As a Democrat I want to be fair here. Obama holding up Reagan as an example of change, without pointing out how horrible these changes were should have been cause to make Senator Obama write sentences too.
Ah!
Given the questions and tone used by punkinhaid, tweety, the beard et al, not a dime’s worth of difference as many of them were malicious distrotion as well
I don’t quite understand the question. ;0)
Hills is going for the Independents (the smart ones that watch Fox News /s). I can’t figure out why so many voters register as independents (especially in a closed primary state like Florida). If you haven’t got the foggiest which party best represents your ideals, I guess you might enjoy Fox Propaganda.
Aw shit. That’s one of BBV’s main things to look for, which is chain of custody of the ballots. It’s odd this same thing is happening in LA County as well. This is not looking good.
Why is it so hard to understand the importance of this?!? We need to get these issues straightened out as much as possible before Nov. Wasn’t 2000 Florida, 2004 Ohio and many others enough of a warning?!? What has to happen?
DOW sees the election day festivities and pukes up a 370 point loss.
Bush “The economy’s doin GREAT on account a my cool TAX CUTS!”
And if a tree falls in the forest, can you see the forest better?
Dow closes -370
FOX NEWS,our news is FAIR and our reporters UNBALANCED
There are a lot of funny people coming out of the woodwork here on the eve of these primaries. Besides trolls, a lot of unsophisticated Clinton partisans (as opposed to a regular like dakine, who is making a valiant effort to defend her).
Recession is coming. I think.
AP – Stocks slumped for a second straight session Tuesday after an unexpected contraction in the service sector intensified Wall Street’s worry that the economy is headed for recession. The Dow Jones industrial average fell about 300 points, while bond prices rose.
FWIW, I’m undecided since my choice is gone. I just try to push people to be consistent in the standards they espouse and apply them consistently to both candidates.
OK
I predict that Willard will be gone within a week- and that neither of the dems will end up with a lead in delegates greater than 20%.
She’s talking about the creepy preacher that Obama had working for him in one of the southern states. That issue was discussed here at FDL at one point. Progressives hated the deal. Personally, I didn’t like it.
JayT@13;
Joe Lieberman’s going to moderate. :o)
Seriously, what’s the big deal? She’s been fishing in the ol’ Triangulation hole for the better part of five years. Why stop now?
I bet there’s some BIIIG conservative catfish to be caught yet. :o)
I can hardly wait for her supporters to weigh in on this.
BTW, if Obama’s lead holds in California, and if he does reasonably well in the other 21, I doubt we’ll see him move to the right.
Hillary’s already staked out her claim to that part of the range, and if Obama wants to get in a pissing contest over who’s the most conservative, it will be terrible mistake for him.
LOL, are you talking about me? I am neither unsophisticated nor a Clinton partison, but I am a new poster.
I have a lawyer friend (she actually testified at the House Judiciary Committee hearing into how things went down in Ohio in 2004) who’s going to be at the registars office tonight to observe the process of feeding the ballots into the scanners. The problem is – if there will be one, is chain of custody – it’s the transfer of the ballots from the individual precincts to the registrars office
I agree, so what to do to help bring this about. This is one of the most frightening and important issues facing us, to me more than Hillary or Obama or Mcain or Romney. Our right to vote for our choice.
This thinking is so pre-9/11.
Dang.. You are right.. without a spine, it wont work.
Memo to Obama: Events, truth, and reality, are all on OUR side.
Fuck bipartisanship. We can be “bipartisan” to them after we’ve got them bent over.
As they’ve been doing to us.
Me and kiddo will vote for Clinton next November if this woman is the presidential nominee of our party. Why? Because she is not a registered Republican.
Lahoma
Point taken. I urge people to vote for Obama (I’ll be voting Feb. 12). I have excluded all considerations other than the war, and even if you give Clinton the benefit of the doubt for her decisions and depreciate the 2002 statements of Obama, Obama comes out ahead. A certain amount of faith and hope have admittedly pushed me toward that decision, but Clinton offers neither on the matter of the war.
What can I say? I grew up in an era where words like consistency, fair play, honor, service to country and such actually meant something and were not things to be disparaged.
I want to see HRC take some unfair biased moderator to the wood shed. Show BO how to stand up to the right wing smear machine. He better take notes because he is going to need them!
Bottom line; is Hillary trying to out FOX Barack?
Will she succeed?
Suffering dog hairs! This is becoming sooo exciting!!
Say what? Oh, before the 60’s.
The tax cuts are working well for those he intended to help, namely himself, his family, and all their cronies.
Well said my friend
My lady is getting wound up about about this Fox debate stuff. I’m going to fix supper and do KP. And perhaps a glass of Sonoma Cali wine is in order also.
As did I and like you in Kentucky. I never thought it all could be trashed so fast and with so little opposition.
Maybe HRC and Obama should go on Fox so they can issue the Congressional contempt thingy personally to Rove when he shows up to moderate the debate…
Actually even in the sixties – I was in military HS from 66 – 70 where all that stuff was still being taught, even in the midst of the craziness. Wasn’t always practiced but was still being taught.
Smile-Think Cheshire cat
Welcome to the Lake. Put your feet up and stay awhile with us. And come back often.
OT
Heads up
The FISA debate is scheduled to start up again at about 4:45 give or take. CSpan-2
Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, and Obama. Does it ever get any better?
Oh yea, like the totally racist draft, idiot officers and nco’s, stupid wasteful war, now it’s coming back to me
Thanks, I’ve been reading this blog for several years…am a big fan of Jane and Emptywheel. Finally got around to registering.
Considering the viciousness of the attacks on Hillary Clinton by CNN and MSNBC, she probably shouldn’t have done those debates either. The misogyny that underlies the media coverage- MSM and the blogs- of Hillary has so stunning that for her at least, it can’t get much worse.
And then there was the Korean War, a wonderfully executed and glory filled exercise.
Hannity is raging on his show about McCain and what a skunk he is.
We voted for Obama this morning. And in light of this latest HRC/Fox News stuff, we have no regrets.
New thread
FOX will have her back if she reinvents herself as the Democratic war candidate, painting Obama as an appeaser on Iran, soft on terror, etc.
I assume you recall that they gave identical answers on what to do about Iran when the questions wa asked in an earlier debate? “All options are on the table”
Also the answer provided by Edwards.
Don’t assume anything about what I remember, such as Kyl-Lieberman. *g*. Still, you’re being selective. Clinton turned on Obama for his statements about engaging in diplomacy with Iran.
Obama has done things that have disappointed and even disgusted me (such as this repeating this flippantly murderous “all options on the table” line). But Clinton has all the credentials as the reliable war candidate. You’re somewhat right, though — I am making an intuitive bet, albeit with some evidence (for example, his effective retort to Clinton at the last debate) that Obama is the one sincerely interested in ending the war.
Both Obama and Hillary are first and foremost politicians. That should put an end to the teeth gnashing and hand wringing.
Let me restate my argument a simpler way. Clinton is a proven warmonger. Even if you’re skeptical about the substance of Obama’s opposition to the war (and potential war on Iran), he’s still, at worst, an unknown quantity. I’ll take the unknown quantity given this choice.
What will put an end to your condescending comments?
It’s a chance for equal time. Now they can BOTH tell conservatives what they admire about Ronald Reagan.
As I have stated, I’m undecided but will vote for whomever is heading the Democratic ticket in November 2008. If it is Senator Obama, I hope you are correct with your leap into the unknown. I have not seen anything to make me quite as optimistic.
And there was nothing condescending in stating that both Obama and Clinton are politicians. THAT is a simple statement of fact.
brendanx -
If you consider my comments condescending, sorry about that. The fact is that they are and the decisions they make come from that place.
just sayin’
FOX might just as well have used the N’ word
As Obama was piling up the votes in South Carolina the FOX pundits kept repeating over and over again, “The black man is getting the black vote.”
It was obnoxius, so obnoxius in fact that FOX’s imported experts refused to pick up their black-man black-vote spin. Up popped Heraldo, “ah I said a Latino”, who promptly said black man gets black vote to which his guest politely disagreed or as I say, averred (avoid plus demur.) They all might just as well have used the N’ word.
Did I say that FOX didn’t even cover BO’s victory speech, choosing instead to concentrate (for the tenth time in an hour) on the Florida Gov endorsing McCain.
There was absolutely no pretense that FOX is other than a straight up Republican partisan advocate. Actually it knocked my socks off, the shamelessness of the programming, of being a news channel wholly in bed with one political persuasion.
Unless Hillary gets an up/down vote in advance on the questions, she’s frankly nuts.
Election Study Finds Media Hit Hillary Hardest
Obama, Huckabee Fare Best;
FOX Is Most Balanced (not a typo)
http://www.cmpa.com/index.html
milosarah, absolutely correct! She’s been unfairly piled on by mainstream media (and the left blogosphere), so why should Faux News be any worse? She might even score some points by taking it to them, like she did to Chris Wallace some time ago (or to Tweety when she slapped him with the “obsessed” put down). And when Obama condescends to debate her, like he most certainly will – considering how he tried to triangulate in Nevada with his Reagan comments – the O-bots will march in lock-step. Hillary is running to be President of these United States, and not President of just the Democratic Party or just the flighty, kewl krowd out for their latest new sensation.
brendanx –
On second thought, I did sound like a sanctimonious prick.
I’m worn down by the flame wars. The lake has always been a safe haven and people are generally respectful, so I’m bummed when I hear the ugly tone that people are taking with one another. We all want to nail the republicans in November. We’ve got to keep our eyes on the prize. That’s all.
Peace
Fox News has been more fair to Clinton than MSNBC ever has!
Further, given the fact that the MoveOn and most in the progressive blogs give her no credit whatsoever even when she stands up for them, why should she NOT go on Fox.
Ugh! For Faux to be relatively “balanced”, it goes to show how unbalanced MSNBC and CNN and the rest of MSM have become in their coverage of the Clintons. I’m glad that it is coming out now, even if it is probably too late to change the course of Obama being the anointed one.
Thom Hartmann explained this morning in order for an Edwards vote to count, he must get at least 15%, otherwise all his votes go the winner of the primary. So you might as well pick your candidate rather than throw your vote away or give it to someone you don’t want to.
Right. Totally! Nothing Hillary does surprises me any more. Her’s is a WIN AT ALL COSTS campaign. No conscience. No ethical considerations. In other words, casually ruthless. Not something I want in my next president.
Fox news, an unrepentent echo chamber for the reactionary right. Yep it certainly is. Before waxing eloquent in your denuciation, stop and consider how reactionary the so called progressive blogosphere really is. The trashing of a female candidate because of her gender is just fine with many of the so called “progressives” on this and other similar sites. It’s fine to criticize O’Reilly, Hannity and that crowd. Before you do though, look at yourself in the mirror and assess your own behavior. You might suprise yourself and find that your silence in the face of blatant sexism makes you complicit in that sexism. You might find that you, yourself, are actually just as bad as the Fox pundits you love to criticize. After all, they are just playing to an audience to make money. You think your views are better; you might find that they are more similar to Fox’s than you care to admit,
It really breaks my heart to see how low the Clintons are willing to go to try and get a third term for Bill. I really admired Bill when he was president and ignored the things the right were saying about him, but now I have to wonder if there wasn’t a little truth there. Barack already said he will not debate on Fox, which is the wisest decision, in my opinion.
So it is okay to run ads on Fox, appear on their news shows, but not to debate. Is that the Barack double standard?
The agreement not to debate in Nevada was a good decision in response to a particular comment. And most people who believe in truth would like to see Fox disappear. But that doesn’t mean that people who watch Fox shouldn’t get to see the future leader of America in a debate.