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	<title>Comments on: Pushing Back Against the Hillary Haters</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/</link>
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		<title>By: bartcopfan</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251501</link>
		<dc:creator>bartcopfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251501</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I can’t leave this insult unanswered.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;“…an empty vessel into which [her detractors] can pour everything they detest.” (In this she is the counterpart of George W. Bush, &lt;strong&gt;who serves much the same function for many liberals&lt;/strong&gt;.)”&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My hatred &lt;strong&gt;for the policies&lt;/strong&gt; inflicted on this nation and the world by W and his enablers (which include far too many Democrats) is hardly irrational.  In fact, to the extent he has denigrated and politicized science and intellectual pursuits in general, I’d say it is hyper-rational.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You want a list?  Here you go for starters:&lt;br /&gt;
Given the greatest gift any president ever received–$200+ billion in government budget surpluses, he turned it into $400+ billion deficits, without improving Americans’ health, infrastructure, education, or inequality;&lt;br /&gt;
After receiving warnings (”Bin Laden Determined to Attack in US”), he failed to prevent the 9/11 attacks;&lt;br /&gt;
Took resources away from the attack on the country that harbored the 9/11 attackers (Afghanistan) to attack Iraq, which didn’t have anything to do with it, while ignoring (and cutting deals with) others that did (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan);&lt;br /&gt;
Hell, it will take historians &lt;strong&gt;volumes&lt;/strong&gt; to document this stuff and I’ve got work to do, so I’ll cut this off and just say:  Terri Schiavo.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, as for W himself, as a human being?  Hell, I still actually can feel something &lt;strong&gt;for&lt;/strong&gt; him.  Beloved sister dead as a young child, heroic father gone all the time (”you’ll never measure up”), overbearing mother, difficulty in school or performing as expected (”George, you’re such a fuck-up”, “Why can’t you be more like Jeb?”, “OK, but this is the &lt;strong&gt;last time&lt;/strong&gt; my buddies and I bail you out!”).  What chance did he have?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Unfortunately, the world has been to one to pay the price for him.  He hasn’t learned a damn thing.  He needs to be slowly and carefully talked out of the Oval Office, away from the nookular button, taken someplace he can never hurt anyone again (The Hague?), and never paid attention to again (except as a cautionary tale).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can’t leave this insult unanswered.</p>
<p><em>“…an empty vessel into which [her detractors] can pour everything they detest.” (In this she is the counterpart of George W. Bush, <strong>who serves much the same function for many liberals</strong>.)”</em></p>
<p>My hatred <strong>for the policies</strong> inflicted on this nation and the world by W and his enablers (which include far too many Democrats) is hardly irrational.  In fact, to the extent he has denigrated and politicized science and intellectual pursuits in general, I’d say it is hyper-rational.</p>
<p>You want a list?  Here you go for starters:<br />
Given the greatest gift any president ever received–$200+ billion in government budget surpluses, he turned it into $400+ billion deficits, without improving Americans’ health, infrastructure, education, or inequality;<br />
After receiving warnings (”Bin Laden Determined to Attack in US”), he failed to prevent the 9/11 attacks;<br />
Took resources away from the attack on the country that harbored the 9/11 attackers (Afghanistan) to attack Iraq, which didn’t have anything to do with it, while ignoring (and cutting deals with) others that did (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan);<br />
Hell, it will take historians <strong>volumes</strong> to document this stuff and I’ve got work to do, so I’ll cut this off and just say:  Terri Schiavo.</p>
<p>Now, as for W himself, as a human being?  Hell, I still actually can feel something <strong>for</strong> him.  Beloved sister dead as a young child, heroic father gone all the time (”you’ll never measure up”), overbearing mother, difficulty in school or performing as expected (”George, you’re such a fuck-up”, “Why can’t you be more like Jeb?”, “OK, but this is the <strong>last time</strong> my buddies and I bail you out!”).  What chance did he have?</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the world has been to one to pay the price for him.  He hasn’t learned a damn thing.  He needs to be slowly and carefully talked out of the Oval Office, away from the nookular button, taken someplace he can never hurt anyone again (The Hague?), and never paid attention to again (except as a cautionary tale).</p>
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		<title>By: Crosstimbers</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251498</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosstimbers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251498</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;To amplify, I would ask you to consider whether or not our current problems are more related to the inability of the Bush administration and its supporters have to comprehen modern technology, or an insufficient understanding of the separation of powers and such concepts as collective security, balance of power, and national interest. I suggest that they have barged into world and national affairs and made a mess of it due to insufficient understanding of what our appropriate role in world affairs should be.  Technology had nothing to do with it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To amplify, I would ask you to consider whether or not our current problems are more related to the inability of the Bush administration and its supporters have to comprehen modern technology, or an insufficient understanding of the separation of powers and such concepts as collective security, balance of power, and national interest. I suggest that they have barged into world and national affairs and made a mess of it due to insufficient understanding of what our appropriate role in world affairs should be.  Technology had nothing to do with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Crosstimbers</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251417</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosstimbers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251417</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have no problem with this thoughtful answer, but you have to admit that your initial response sounds as arrogant and blithefully silly as that of ekunin at 302.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no problem with this thoughtful answer, but you have to admit that your initial response sounds as arrogant and blithefully silly as that of ekunin at 302.</p>
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		<title>By: Crosstimbers</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251411</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosstimbers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251411</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t know your age, but your sweeping analysis of world progress suggests that you need to consider bailing out and leaving it to those younger than you.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t know your age, but your sweeping analysis of world progress suggests that you need to consider bailing out and leaving it to those younger than you.</p>
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		<title>By: mikemidcity</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251385</link>
		<dc:creator>mikemidcity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251385</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well for sure I don’t want Hillary.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is the Iraq vote and her refusal to see any wrong on her part.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The vote itself makes her unelectable for me.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Her dogged refusal to see any wrong in it makes me really not like her.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well for sure I don’t want Hillary.</p>
<p>It is the Iraq vote and her refusal to see any wrong on her part.</p>
<p>The vote itself makes her unelectable for me.</p>
<p>Her dogged refusal to see any wrong in it makes me really not like her.</p>
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		<title>By: ekunin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251195</link>
		<dc:creator>ekunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251195</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In societies with little or no change, age is an advantage. Elders are respected because they know the gamut of social possibilities. In societies of rapid technological change, of which ours is certainly one, elders have little or nothing of value to suggest. What is current today did not exist for most of their lives. That is why we emphasize youth. People exercise, get Botox or plastic surgery to look younger than they are because age indicates one is “out of it”. Experience has little to say for itself except it’s most likely misleading if not downright wrong.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In societies with little or no change, age is an advantage. Elders are respected because they know the gamut of social possibilities. In societies of rapid technological change, of which ours is certainly one, elders have little or nothing of value to suggest. What is current today did not exist for most of their lives. That is why we emphasize youth. People exercise, get Botox or plastic surgery to look younger than they are because age indicates one is “out of it”. Experience has little to say for itself except it’s most likely misleading if not downright wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: kdh22</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251172</link>
		<dc:creator>kdh22</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251172</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’ve apparently struck a nerve. I’m not a kid. I’m a middle-aged woman whom has considered and respected the views of my older family members and friends. I have learned a great deal from their experiences, and have listened intently to their advice and stories of courage. My parents lived through the depression, and while I was being raised by them, I was taught the value of hard work and the penny. I cared for both of them in their final days. Much wisdom was extolled to me in those final hours, and I continue to be blessed by them to this day. I did however learn a great deal about the aging process and all that comes with that. I’ll leave it at that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve apparently struck a nerve. I’m not a kid. I’m a middle-aged woman whom has considered and respected the views of my older family members and friends. I have learned a great deal from their experiences, and have listened intently to their advice and stories of courage. My parents lived through the depression, and while I was being raised by them, I was taught the value of hard work and the penny. I cared for both of them in their final days. Much wisdom was extolled to me in those final hours, and I continue to be blessed by them to this day. I did however learn a great deal about the aging process and all that comes with that. I’ll leave it at that.</p>
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		<title>By: kenoshaMarge</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251115</link>
		<dc:creator>kenoshaMarge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1251115</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Former Edwards supporter who has switched to Hillary. I find Obama a slick-talking lightweight. As Maxine Waters said so eloquently, “we need help, not hope!” And I could never vote for someone who was either so naive or so stupid that they think you can work with Republicans. This “can’t we all just get along” claptrap drives me up a wall. Hell no we can’t all just get along! Not with Republicans that want to gut the constitution. Not with Republicans that will always support the rich and the richer yet instead of the majority of the American People. Not with people that think they have the right to inflict their religious beliefs on the rest of us. Not with cretins that think they have the right to interfere between what a woman and her doctor decide to do with and to her body. And hell no we can’t get along or make deals or be bi-partisan with a corrupt bunch of thugs whose idea of bipartisanship is for our side to do what they want us to do. I want someone who understands that not some damn campaign based on a Smiley-Face!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Former Edwards supporter who has switched to Hillary. I find Obama a slick-talking lightweight. As Maxine Waters said so eloquently, “we need help, not hope!” And I could never vote for someone who was either so naive or so stupid that they think you can work with Republicans. This “can’t we all just get along” claptrap drives me up a wall. Hell no we can’t all just get along! Not with Republicans that want to gut the constitution. Not with Republicans that will always support the rich and the richer yet instead of the majority of the American People. Not with people that think they have the right to inflict their religious beliefs on the rest of us. Not with cretins that think they have the right to interfere between what a woman and her doctor decide to do with and to her body. And hell no we can’t get along or make deals or be bi-partisan with a corrupt bunch of thugs whose idea of bipartisanship is for our side to do what they want us to do. I want someone who understands that not some damn campaign based on a Smiley-Face!</p>
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		<title>By: Crosstimbers</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1250884</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosstimbers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1250884</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;LOL. Do you not think that reasoning has been spouted by every 13 old who wanted to do something their to which their parents objected since the beginning of time?  Please print your statement, save it, and reread it in 25 years.  It will give you one hell of a laugh to realize how illogical and nonsensical you were.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In terms of intellect, the only difference between younger people and older people is experience.  In addition to having experienced more, tried more, failed more, succeeded more, in short, learned more, older people have been young.  Younger people have never been older.  Do you really think you have some idea that previous generations have not considered?  Particularly in regard to political leadership.  Look, kid, I like Obama, and value his tone of optimism, but he ain’t offering anything new.  At best, he can offer a return to the opportunities and fairness which existed a short seven years ago.  It will be a wonder if anyone can achieve that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Finally, regarding this look ahead, not back stuff.  History is to a society what memory is to an individual.  It’s imperfect and subject to all the rationalization and contortion that memory is, but without it we have no social memory.  Your are truly born into a new world every morning.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now wipe your nose and go play.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL. Do you not think that reasoning has been spouted by every 13 old who wanted to do something their to which their parents objected since the beginning of time?  Please print your statement, save it, and reread it in 25 years.  It will give you one hell of a laugh to realize how illogical and nonsensical you were.</p>
<p>In terms of intellect, the only difference between younger people and older people is experience.  In addition to having experienced more, tried more, failed more, succeeded more, in short, learned more, older people have been young.  Younger people have never been older.  Do you really think you have some idea that previous generations have not considered?  Particularly in regard to political leadership.  Look, kid, I like Obama, and value his tone of optimism, but he ain’t offering anything new.  At best, he can offer a return to the opportunities and fairness which existed a short seven years ago.  It will be a wonder if anyone can achieve that.</p>
<p>Finally, regarding this look ahead, not back stuff.  History is to a society what memory is to an individual.  It’s imperfect and subject to all the rationalization and contortion that memory is, but without it we have no social memory.  Your are truly born into a new world every morning.</p>
<p>Now wipe your nose and go play.</p>
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		<title>By: deandra</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1250875</link>
		<dc:creator>deandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 10:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#comment-1250875</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am a woman and I dislike Hillary.  For me, it is not misogny — and I voted twice for Billy!  There’s just no humility to her.  She’s just so cocksure about herself. She laughs off the ‘dynasty’ issue and minimizes and dismisses it.  Everything about her is calculated and rehearsed.  She’s played dirty pool with Obama.  She simply can’t handle any competition.  I don’t want or need a resurfacing of all the Clinton messes in their lives.  They’ve had their time, give someone else a chance.  I still maintain, &lt;strong&gt;but for Bill Clinton, there would be no Hillary!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a woman and I dislike Hillary.  For me, it is not misogny — and I voted twice for Billy!  There’s just no humility to her.  She’s just so cocksure about herself. She laughs off the ‘dynasty’ issue and minimizes and dismisses it.  Everything about her is calculated and rehearsed.  She’s played dirty pool with Obama.  She simply can’t handle any competition.  I don’t want or need a resurfacing of all the Clinton messes in their lives.  They’ve had their time, give someone else a chance.  I still maintain, <strong>but for Bill Clinton, there would be no Hillary!</strong></p>
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