Barbara Ehrenreich hits the economic nail on the head for a whole lot of America:
But hellooo, we’ve had brisk growth for the past few years, as the president has tirelessly reminded us, only without those promised increases in personal income, at least not for the poor and the middle class. According to a study just released by the Economic Policy Institute, real wages actually fell last year. Growth, some of the economists are conceding in perplexity, has been "decoupled" from widely shared prosperity.
I first began to sense this in the boom years of the late 1990s, when I was working in entry-level jobs for my book "Nickel and Dimed." While the stock market soared and fortunes were being made in the time it takes to say "IPO," my $6-to-$8-an-hour co-workers lunched on hot dog buns because that was all they could afford and, in some cases, fretted about whether they could find a safe place to sleep.
Growth is not the only economic indicator that has let us down. In the past five years, America’s briskly rising productivity has been the envy of much of the world. But again, there’s been no corresponding increase in most people’s wages….
So thoroughly is the economy decoupled from ordinary experience that according to a CNN poll, 57 percent of Americans thought we were already in a recession a month ago….most Americans have been living in their own personal recession for years.
I could see this when I was doing research for a book on white-collar unemployment in 2004. Although the economy was officially on an upturn, I met laid-off people who’d been searching for a job for more than a year and often ended up — after selling their homes and borrowing from relatives — taking low-wage work as big-box sales clerks or even janitors.
In the months ahead, we can expect the hard times to spread. Citigroup has announced plans to eliminate 21,000 jobs; investment banks in general will shed 40,000. The mortgage industry is in a meltdown; Business Wire predicts a 37 percent increase in the number of companies planning layoffs this year. This is what a stimulus package needs to address: the persistent and growing struggles of the middle class and the working class, which is increasingly conterminous with the working poor.
Welcome to reality. All those golden parachutes come at a steep price for someone, and you can sure as hell bet it isn’t the folks with the multi-layered compensation packages. For everyone who is taking a tumble without that executive parachute for their fall and that of their families? It’s going to be a wild ride…
But don’t fret, Bush feels your pain. (H/T Norwegianity.) Yeah…right.
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‘allo…
Christy!
Hello again…
preview is your friend…..Hi Christy…
It seems a bit evil, but those cookie cutters just cracked me up…
LOL — I fixed it for you.
btw, I made a salad the other day out of recipe from that greek cookbook you gave me at YKos. Very yummy stuff. Thanks again for it.
All those golden parachutes…
And not a one with my name on it… And yet, somehow I just know that I’d look good in one. *g*
btw, gang, a lot of this goes part and parcel with what we’ll be discussing later in Book Salon with Free Lunch. Jane will be hosting at 5 pm ET/2 pm PT. Thought folks might appreciate a reminder — should be a good discussion.
This is so true. And so sad. And yes, bush has endlessly acted as if the “economy” (meaning big business) was the same as how “people” are doing economically. (It is verbal slight of hand.) There have been few jobs created, compared to past administrations, during bush’s 7 years. Meanwhile the rich grow so rich that they should all be ashamed. Some people earn in a year more than most people would ever earn in many lifetimes!
Change is needed. We were discussing this in our house at about 5:30 am this morning. I am depressed on behalf of the poor!
You’re on fire today Christy. Briefly discussed Ehrenreich’s work with EE one night. Seems her work really intrigued her and John.
We read Nickel & Dimed in my Manhattan book club quite a while ago. I was stunned how little insight/experience my friends had with the world it revealed. After all, we all shop — and most of these people have houses in rural areas. They are not confined to the NYC “bubble.”
We all need to start paying very careful attention. The MSM is not going to completely acknowledge our economic realities.
I am glad you liked it…. I brought back 5 cookbooks (backpack weighted a ton) but love sitting around finding something lovely to cook….
What I do is look at my family….. The two girls…. both ASU grads are still working at their college jobs…. have NOT been able to obtain work outside retail….. one has become an assistant manager and they both have full benefits…. still you don’t spend tons on college tuition to sell clothes and coffee.
My oldest son who is supporting a family used to be a project manager for a big home builder in the Seattle area. A year ago last December when his project was completed they pink slipped him and his whole crew. They did it as each subdivision was completed.
It is the main reason why Edwards message spoke to me…..
I ran out to the grocery store late last night to pick up another gallon of milk and a couple of things for gameday snacks for today. (Neither Mr. ReddHedd nor I really give a crap about the teams in the Superbowl this year, but we want to watch the commercials. *g*)
There was a couple in the check-out line ahead of me trying to decide what items to put back because they didn’t have enough to pay for their groceries. I stood there, trying to figure out a way to offer to pay the difference without offending their dignity, when they decided to give up their case of beer saying “it was healthier for him to drink water anyway,” and the whole issue was resolved within minutes. It was, from everything that I had seen as their groceries trickled down the belt ahead of mine, the single extravagance of the lot of them — otherwise it was a lot of dried rice, dried beans, and other cheaper diet staples.
For people who have never had to count down to the penny on how much they could spend to feed their families, this never even occurs to them, I don’t think. But for those of us who have played the “creative ways to dress up a cheap pack of ramen noodles for dinner again” game, as I did all through graduate school and a lot of law school on a tight budget, you learn all too quickly what is or is not within the budget range. And when that happens because your job has been suddenly and without warning downsized, and you have children to take care of, that hits at a gut level for everyone.
At The Peanut’s preschool, they provide breakfast in the mornings now because there were so many kids who were coming to school starving. And this way the kids at least start the day with something in their bellies.
The MSM is not going to
completelyever acknowledgeourany economic realities other than “their own”, or those that they’re ordered to espouse.Better?
1,744 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
We have reached the end of corporate capitalism but NOT the end of corporate power…the next several decades are gunna be bloody and chaotic until the planet either settles inta a new “Dark Ages” or an extended Pax Chinese. We do have a moment here to save what’s left of democracy and maybe get onto the road of a new co-operative world economy but I jest don’t think Barak O’Lieberman has the chops ta pull it off…oh Al Gore where are ya when we need ya??!!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND IMPEACH THE BASTARDS!!
Much better! I’m no spring chicken and my southern raisin’ (of a certain era) contributes to a certain difficulty with anger/clarity. *g*
Yep. The economic downturn is affecting MN as well. Unemployment rate is up a little bit, though still below the national average:
I am currently recovering from a debilitating on-the-job injury, and am collecting Workman’s Compensation Temporary Disablity. With what I stand to be able to collect in final settlement, along with potential State Disablity and SSI, it’s a wash on whether to try to return to work, as I would have to put in over 40 hours a week at my last wage level to beat what I can collect for sitting on my butt the rest of my life.
Early forced retirement sounds alluring, yet I’m not really ready to stop working. But the point is, what would be the point?
Christy here is a wonderful orzo salad that is so good it will be hard not to eat it in one sitting…. I didn’t have mint and used cilantro instead
Warm Orzo Salad
And the Repugs want to cut out food stamps from the stimulus package…As I said the other day: disgusting…
In terms of the cost of food, you haven’t seen anything yet. Over the next few months this is going to become a vey big issue.
Since Marie Antoinette lost her head, every competent nation state has maintained a policy of inexpensive food. Leave to it to Bushco to abandon this policy.
HRC is such a progressive.
AP – Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to have workers’ wages garnisheed if they refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.
DO you have a link on that? Because I’d like to see the by-line…
Sorta the icing on a post cookie, so to speak. *g*
Read Eirenreich’s piece only a few minutes before you put this up and thought, “Right on, sister!” I’m going to start volunteering at the food pantry in the eastern end of the state on return; a friend just e-mailed saying they are in need of bags to package the items being distributed…..they are surely even more in need of food stuffs to put in those bags. As more and more people who have considered themselves well-off join the laid-off line, it will be interesting to see whether their attitudes about government assistance in time of need change.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..mpaign_rdp
Absence of a single payer medical program leads to a cul-de-sac. For Hillary’s manadatory program, it is enforcement. For Obama’s non-mandatory program, it is the free rider (and thus emergency room treatment) problem.
Can’t find anything to support it but I thought that when there was a downturn in the economy the SSD (social security disability) claims increased.
This doesn’t look good … Backlog of Social Security disability claims likely to grow
ty
Digg this
Bush’s economic policies, costing you an arm and a leg. Love the photo.
What a touching story. It’s heart-breaking to live in a wealthy country and provide so little for the majority of our citizens.
I hope it gets to the point where people are embarrassed to spend money on lots of lavish things. I’d like to see a “giving race” where the wealthy compete to be of service.
Linky…
Although I understand and agree with everything you say, the paragraph about putting beer back may be co-opted by right wing fundies to show that tricle-down economics work precisely as they should and John Calvin would approve.
The need for growth is the real problem in economy metrics. What the hell is growth if it doesn’t mean growth in the incomes or buying power of the people?
Corporations can grow by cutting wages and jobs. They measure growth by profit! They can close factories and open up one and use slave labor and show growth in profits.
The truth about our economy is that is it all driven by what’s good for corporations and investors… not workers and wager earners.
By THAT metric the us economy has been shrinking for decades.
Clearly, Kiddo, there is no question; we shall have need of more prisons and workhouses as well as serious financial consequence to effectively deal with the anti-social lower classes.
Note: The preceding is entirely snark, on my part, at least.
Yes, well, on Superbowl Sunday weekend, I’d like to see the GOP make a stand on “no beer for the regular folks.” Because I can tell you how that would go around here in the real world…
Isn’t Obama’s plan more like he wants to make sure that everyone can afford to buy health insurance–through subsidy programs? Is this latter what you call “free rider”? Do you know how he plans to set up these programs?
My response was to eCAHN at 25. I don’t know what happened…hiccup?
We are not a wealthy country. We are a country that has many wealthy people… and 40 million poor people and 2.5 million in prison and hundreds of thousands homeless and higher infant mortality that some “third world” nations. We have slower internet, than Japan, lousier cell phones than many countries, worse rail system. Our students are not the best performers either and our private universities are costing what many people earn in a life time!
i have followed BE for years a personal hero of mine,thanks Christy!
The idea of Bush-era “Growth” is pretty much a crock also. For the stock market: S&P 500 numbers:
Wonderous Chimp Administration: Start approx. 1334
Close last Friday: 1395 …for a 4.5 percent total gain in seven years.
The Hated Clenis Administration: Start approx. 432
For a 308 percent total gain in eight years.
Third world Preznit. Third world economy.
Every adult American who likes to drink beer should be able to afford to buy and drink beer while watching Superbowl…
The price of corn is at the root of the coming shock at the grocery store. Farmers can’t afford to feed their livestock $4.00/bushel corn. They are actively liquidating their breeding stock. Their is such a glut of sows and boars on the market the price has fallen to 2 or 3 cents a pound. In some cases they are simply being given away to the slaughterhouses. In about 6 months this will result in finanacial pain for consumers of meat products.
Attempting to use grain for fuel is going to prove to be a disaster. It isn’t going to produce very much energy, if any, and it is going to inflate the cost of basic food stuffs dramatically.
The for profit health care delivery system has to be taken apart. All workers need to be paid according to their skills. Let’s have a real meritocracy and get the leeches out of the system.
Just a thought:
If we ended our occupation of Iraq, etc. we could save around $15,000,000,000 per month. We could plow some of that savings into providing health care for the people of America.
Way OfT – Just noticed an add over at HuffPo from draftbloomberg.com. It says “Mayor Bloomberg, we need you to run for President”, and “Sign up here”… 5,237 Signatures so far!”…
Now that’s a run-away train of a campaign, huh?
The ethanol thing is another scam brought to you by ADM and their ilk.
We are feudal vassals in the new feudalism.
No Logo my friends. See the Century of the Self
THE MIC is like a cancer through the nation. If you cut it out you will destroy the country. How cleaver they were to addict us to their murderous jobs.
Why do we need nuclear subs?
Drive by and OT: Dear lord, I could end up with Chris Matthews as my Senator:
http://cliffschecter.bravenewf…..the-senate
and as an extra-special two-fer,
E. coli 0157:H7 Increased by Corn Ethanol Byproduct
‘A potted adult in every house!’ No, that did not come out quite like the slogan I was reaching for… jeez.
Belated, good day all!
Christy your posts today (as usual, of course) are most thought-provoking.
They’ve got the American consumers right where they want them – bashing Canadian and European Health Care systems they know nothing about AND fooling them into believing that Health Insurance is National Health Care. People like Russert help with the dissemination of such propaganda.
Thanks, mucho. It’s always tough to tell if a topic is just grabbing me — or if it takes on a life of its own and spawns a lot of thought for everyone. Nice to know they hit you just right, today — and nice to hear. Thanks.
To start with, if we want the for-profit health care system to be abolished, then we need to make medical education affordable. And medicine a field where dedication and giving predominates over becoming wealthy. You may need to literally recruit different kinds of people. People whose main desire is to be of service. Give them the training. But help them understand they can’t all be specialists. And they can’t all live in big cities.
As a psychologist, I would be delighted to work for what Medicare pays. I mean this in all sincerity. It is less than my full fee, but it is easy to bill Medicare and there are no hoops to jump. If people need therapy, they can get it. The only problem with mental health under Medicare is that reimbursement is at a lower percentage than for physical health care. That would need to change… for fairness sake. Reasonable copays is the solution.
If the program is not mandatory, no matter how “affordable,” some will not participate. After all, paying zero & going to an emergency room if every you need it is still cheaper than buying insurance the the got has determined is affordable for you.
I know people who have worked as security guards (for not much money) for a while, and also as part-time/temp office help, to keep ends from getting too far apart. All those wonderful reforms that we got in the 90s, intended (they said) to keep people from becoming welfare queens, are now hurting a lot more.
I wish some of the people who told everyone how wonderful things would be, with welfare reform and tax cuts in place, actually had to live like Ann and Joe Average: paycheck to paycheck, with no raises in sight and increases in the cost of everything.
Yes, ethanol is a bad idea that just keeps giving.
Ehrenreich is right as far back as she goes but the class warfare that Republicans have been waging against us of The Great Unwashed has definitely been going on since St. Ron was coronated in 1981. the mystery to me is how long does this have to go on until people start really fighting back. is a Bolshevik Revolution simply no longer possible no matter how bad it gets? why didn’t more people get John Edwards message? we really needed that guy and he’s not there any more …….
From kiddo’s AP link on Hill’s health plan:
My bold. Canshe really pull that off?
“In the past five years, America’s briskly rising productivity has been the envy of much of the world. But again, there’s been no corresponding increase in most people’s wages”
Can you see the connection? Between increasing productivity & stagnant wages negative when inflation adjusted)?
Oy bad typos. Last part should read: buying insurance that the govt has determined is affordable for you.
American consumers are lied to about Ethanol in the same way that they are lied to about National Health Care. People like Chris Mathews disseminate the propaganda.
Thanks. My question @ 57 is also for you…
Drive by and OT: Dear lord, I could end up with Chris Matthews as my Senator:
maybe the voting populace would eventually come away with this thought (shamelessly stolen from Lewis Black):
“I listened to the first two paragraphs of his speech, and realized that – fuck! – I don’t have enough breadcrumbs to get back home!”
I’m not participating because my choices of providers are all in legal trouble: one of them for trying to avoid reimbursements, one for poor patient service, and one for cancelling coverage illegally.
This does not make me want to sign up with them, and it makes mandatory insurance a non-starter.
Why I want single-payer, version 2008.
If you’re going to go that far, why not be honest, raise taxes and provide single payer?
Years ago I decided to provide my employees and their families with health insurance. At the time it was a bit spendy, but very doable and helped keep me keep my best people. But, let me tell you, the last few years, it has been a real struggle to keep this benefit. Something has to give and soon. I am sure there are a lot of employers out there, like me, who are at about ready to say uncle on this important benefit.
Lewis Black is my therapist. without him i’d be crazier’n a shithouse rat, instead i’m just barking mad ……
Its possible to provide a low premium for the first year, then each successive year your premium would increase by the growth in the GDP plus ten percent. /s
How on God’s Brown Earth will she get Health Insurance Companies to “cover” people with expensive pre-exisiting conditions like AIDS or cancer, ferchrissakes. Sombody call her out.
Health insurance discriminates against older Americans by making it harder to find a job. Employers don’t want to pay the premiums.
I don’t think this country will do anything about our health care industry. The plan in California just died after a year of compromise. The plan was so laden with bullshit that it became unworkable. And I think that was the intended result.
Don’t love Black too much. He said Kerry was just as bad a choice as Bush on his comedy show.
There are. Small businesses, especially, have a huge struggle with it — but larger businesses increasingly see health care benefits as more and more expensive, but with corresponding reductions in what is offered in terms of actual coverage for employees. It’s bizarre how ass-backwards things have gotten — “Pay more, get less!”
Price controls and rationing are the typical ways that single-payer plans work in developed countries. Whether that’s politically acceptable in the U.S. we’ll see if H or O is elected.
Black hates both parties with the same fervor.
Health care is rationed in this country now. And there are no price controls.
(I know you know all of this but I just had to say it.)
Just to add myself to the statistics: I have been out of work for over 3 months. My kids did not have much of a Christmas. While my pay over the last 4 years has gone up (while I had a job); my rent and groceries have actually gone up more. My last job literally went to China without me.
In the next few days, our eviction notice will be coming, in spite of paying at least half the rent for the last few months, and I was never even a day late for the 4 years prior to that. Just to add insult to injury; the guy who is worried about “losing” all the income is an Attorney that owns one of the biggest personal injury firms in the New-England states.
Thanks again… (pace: nonplussed @ 64)
Another excellent point. Older workers premiums can be 10 times or more than the cost of a young worker. A 21 year old can get a crappy plan with a $3000 deductible for $60 per month. A 58 year old’s insurance cost for a crappy plan would be $600 or more per month. Who would you hire?
As I understand the arguments, which are political, many who have insurance are happy with it and any govt program to change that would run into a lot of pissed off voters. Thoe other is the political power of all the medical providers, not limited to insurance corps. Of that you are all well aware.
Don’t love Black too much. He said Kerry was just as bad a choice as Bush on his comedy show.
I believe that what he said was something along the lines of “How could the Democrats choose a candidate who couldn’t beat George W. Bush? That’s like a normal person losing at the Special Olympics”.
(ok – so that’s almost certainly offensive to many – but hey – I’m just reporting here…)
John — I’m so sorry to hear that for you and your family. No chance of getting a one-month reprieve? have you contacted him (her?) in writing? Sometimes a written explanation can help smooth the way for a little leeway…not always, but sometimes.
i didn’t see that so i don’t know how to respond. was he serious? i have seen him eviscerate fuckwad and the rest of the Cheney Administration.
Just about nothing is right with the U.S. “system.” Name it and it’s wrong. Higher costs, lower quality in every way, including the rationing you mention. All related to the Mafia of the Intelligentsia.
I am not much for supply side economics, but I think increasing the size of state supported medical, dental and pharmaceutical schools by about 50%, would over time help a great deal.
Recently, I was involved with several freshly minted doctors going to work as emergency room docs. Their starting salaries were extraordinarily high. It is not unusual for pharmacy school grads to start at $10k a month.
Too bad for Black. He can’t see the forest for the trees. Here’s a guy who might have been helpful in preventing the hideous neocon agenda, but no, both parties are equally bad. When I hear that, I turn it off. Its simply not true. There are 14 or so democratic senators that are bad. We’ll clean them out. We’ll clean the house too.
Supply creates its own demand in medical industry. You know, the doc who’s colleague just opened up a new imaging facility in the same strip mall & who needs to pay his bills?
Found out something that shocked me. I am in the process of getting on Medicare and was talking with a guy at Social Security. He asked me if I had insurance now and when I said yes, he told me that it is much harder to get medicare if you have NOT had insurance
because they sort of assume that you didn’t need it. So a warning, if you are going to be applying for Medicare any time soon, get some kind of insurance before you do.
Just a note for all those who yearn for a single-payer medical system: consider having one where W gets to determine what & how much medical care you’ll get.
My husband just lost his health insurance (again). He is 62 and has a heart condition and other problems. His meds are $300 a month. We have already filed for bankruptcy three years ago due to bad coverage.
This corrupt government does not care and I think it wants to cull out the “unproductive”. Problem is we are all unproductive since there is no viable economy in this country. A service economy combined with an endless war eats its own. The coming storm will be the Katrina of economic events, unnecessary and tragic.
TheraP@ 52
ahem…Bush budget cuts funding to teaching hospitals.
No problemo.
Just go to the emergency Room.
Word of advice, talk with your regular pharmacist about any medications you take and which plans work with them for that medication — and which don’t. I’ve been at the drug store on more than one occasion when zn elderly customer found out his or her blood pressure meds or heart meds or what have you weren’t paid for by whatever plan they picked.
It’s waaaaaaay too complicated. And one of the links above talks about the Bush plans for the budget — and how cutting Medicare drug benefits is one of his plans for balancing the budget. So that nasty donut hole is about to get larger, I’m afraid.
How right you are. Insurance has absolutely nothing to do with health care.
Budget cuts? Where’s all that revenue from cutting taxes for himself, his family, and his cronies?
OT..The FOX crew thinks Kristol is really funny:
C&L
Except, if you live in the real world.
Of course, I understand your point.
the gist of what i’m hearing here is that we really, really do have class warfare in the USA. too many of the wealthy and the power brokers, the corporate and political movers and shakers, are quite willing to let the working class and the lower middle class sink deeper and deeper into barely getting by or outright poverty and starvation. the war is waged in a very subtle way sometimes, more overtly at other times. meanwhile, the democrats in congress are just fiddling while more and more Americans either fall further and further behind or give up and end up on the streets. if Lewis Black is equating Republicans and Democrats, maybe this is why he’s talking this way ……
Hi Firepups!
An interesting and sad footnote to this thread was covered in an article in the AJC Friday I think. People all over the state are having to give up their horses, either selling them cheap or giving them to animal rescue places. The cost of hay and feed has risen so sharply in the last year that many people just can’t afford to feed them. I know it doesn’t compare to human families losing jobs but is just another symptom of the negative changes and how they are affecting all aspects of our lives. One of my daughter’s “horse” friends has been rescuing horses that people are giving up and now has over 70 most of which are for sale. The article also mentioned the plight of pets that are being abandoned because people are losing their homes.
The insurance industry didn’t pay in Katrina either.
Mandatory insurance doesn’t work. Home owners are required to buy insurance.
The insurance companies are not required to pay. Even Mississippi sued
State Farm. Unfettered capitalism is not life affirming.
I get the same thing through 1199… they decide not to pay for one rip off drug and I have to switch to another one. I am taking meds I don’t even need since my blood pressure is hardly above normal. I am going to stop.
Thanks. My supplemental will pay for my drugs – at least the ones I take now. Fingers crossed. The process of getting on Medicare is far more complicated than I knew. I have to take my birth certificate (not a copy) and my marriage certificate. They don’t tell you all of this up front. It kinds dribbles out and you have to make numerous calls and visits to SS. Why make it simple for the elderly? That would be too nice. Thanks for the advice.
Maybe Bush believed the old “prime the pump” theory… The trouble is, the money that is used to prime the pump goes overseas to invest in markets with greater opportunities.
I commented on another blog the other day that this economic incentive package that is getting pushed through sounds wonderful on paper — but there will be some kind of “energy crisis” or something else that will funnel all of that money into the pockets of those who need it least. The information about the crisis began appearing yesterday with the announcement of the lack of an additive.
Most corrupt administration ever!
So, John J puts up a powerful (if appalling) personal comment @ 74, adding himself and his family ‘to the statistics’. And, you know what? There is precious little to say, except, ‘Sorry for your pain.’ Or offer what small practical advice as may be useful, as Christy has done.
But, folks, this is ‘REALITY,’ it is NOT ’statistics, it is people just like you and me.
For all our verbosity and ‘opinion’ we’ve really, very little to say.
…the Bush plans for the budget — and how cutting Medicare drug benefits is one of his plans for balancing the budget.
Everything that might be socially beneficial, right here in the U.S.of A., is fair game for cutting back and saving some money for his fucking infernal, eternal, war.
There will always be madmen in our midst, I’m just pretty damned sick of them being in charge of the show….
At leasy until the next Republic Administration.
Probably easier to reduce the size of their income tax refunds.
But since her system (as well as Obamas) require that businesses provide coverage from a set of mandatory health plans wouldn’t that constitute something similar to wage garnishment? But when I pay for Health Insurance through my wages I don’t view it as “garnishment”. My job requires me to HAVE insurance, I pay a part…they also pay a portion.
I suppose that people who work for themselves might be an issue here…but how would one “garnish” their wages. It would seem that they would best be required to join via some tax penalty (or one could do this by a tax rebate for coverage…essentially the same thing but psychologically less provocative).
I have little sympathy for those that would want to burden emergency rooms and the public support system ONCE there is a Universal health care system in place. You decide to opt out of such a system you should not get coverage.
We need to pay for the services we get, but we don’t need to pay someone to make a profit by interceding.
Insurance is shared risk. Many of the things we pay for with our taxes are shared. Not every drives or flies had kids in school or whatever, but our taxes pay for these things. I have never been in the hospital in 60n years and so the insurance premiums I have paid go to pay someone else’s expenses.
Health care can be paid from / though our taxes. Progressive taxes means people who can afford more and who have benefited more can pay a bit more and those who can’t get some help.
Why should a hospital be a for-profit biz? Will they go for the most profitable care? Cosmetic surgery? Why not?
Unregulated capitalism is killing us.
Decoupling of wages from “growth” is a function of the financialization of the economy, as Ian called it in his post last night. The “growth” took place in the financial markets, not in the part of the economy where we make stuff and sell it, with a boost from the war sector.
In fact, we turned our back on the innovations of the future, research on stem cells, solar power, and many other things. These don’t produce assured returns to big money, so the cash didn’t go there. Instead, it produced mcmansions and hummers, neither of which have any lasting value. Oh, and a pliant government. Glass-Steagall, anyone?
Good stewartship, baby boomers (of which I are one.)
Very little to say since the problem is simple and horrifying. What do do?
It seems like all wingnut talking heads are trying to play mind games with the Democratic electorate. I listented to Monica Crowley criticize HRC and favor Barack Obama this morning. I wondered, is she serious, or is she trying to get us Democrats to think that they’re pushing Obama to get us to nominate Hillary. I decided not to play.
hackworth, i was typing my last comment when you published @ 83 so i hadn’t read it. i hope you’re right, but there seems to be so much kabuki that involves a lot of Democrats that i’m beginning to wonder. it seems to me that we need a real fight to defend the Constitution, to deny the Telcoms, to bring up impeachment to have actual filibusters. if the party leadership isn’t willing to fight and we don’t have enough progressives to get things done can we realistically believe that there can be substantial change even over six or eight years? i’m in it for the long run, but this old blind sow needs more than an acorn or two to keep on giving ……
Why should a hospital be a for-profit biz?
At this point, why should oil companies be “for-profit”?
careful now, Jay, them’s fightin’ words ……
The parallel is Social Security…would we want people collectring SSI after retirement who never paid into the system? If one allows “freeloaders” to benefit then the system will be unsustainable. Allowing voluntary opt-outs just maintains the system as it is.
yes, i’ve been sitting here, appalled at the circumstances which envelop John J & family, but what can i add beyond my sympathy?
The industry in which i’ve worked is outsourcing more & more jobs. What should i do, move to India for work? I’m certain my age plays into lack of job offers. I’ve been temping in my field, coworkers & lower level managers love me, my work, my talent. They’ve requested at several places that i be hired. I’m sure upper level mgrs look at my age, consider the insurance cost, & opt for a younger relatively unskilled worker.
I’ve spent tens of thousands (afraid to count it up, might be hundreds) of dollars on education and training. The result? When I can find work, I make only several dollars an hour more than i did 28 years ago. *spits* the middle class is as real as the emperor’s clothes.
But, since we can’t simply decide to let people sicken and die, don’t we ultimately end up with the same problem that it comes around to emergency room treatment.
Sander, forgive me for saying, that is not a wise move, your near normal blood pressure is likely due to your taking the medications perscribed. If you take yourself off, chances are your blood pressure will skyrocket and you will never know it without monitoring devices. This would be life threatening at best, suicide by neglect. Please reconsider your stated position.
A few years ago the republicans managed to make lower-income “NASCAR republicans” believe that they were the going to be the beneficiaries of the “Bush Tax Cuts”. I remember seeing a piece where a guy who made $30K say it was to help “wealthy people” like him. These were the same morons who believed that Bush was the “steadfast and resolute leader” and not the guy who was screwing them and their families for generations to come.
I wonder what that guy thinks now?
I believe I heard someone, not Hillary, ask why she didn’t use soc sec as her defense of mandatory medical insurance.
He’s probably glad that gays cannot marry and likes the way Bush pretends to pray.
take care, everybody. those of you that are up against it more than me especially, i salute you and wish you a better tomorrow. i’m not rich but i’m heathy and i don’t owe any money or have a mortgage (i don’t have a house or condo either) so i’m basically worry free as far as my own circumstances go. of course i’m still working at age 71 to pay the rent but that’s my own doing.
night all, and carry own ……
There needs to be some sort of Federalization of the plans where they must compete with services offered in order to gain the imprimatur of being one of the handful of systems offered under the Federal system.
One might allow a few “specialized” health care plans to supplement the Federal plan…offering things like expensive annual CatScans, luxury recovery spas, etc. in addition to the more basic schemes.
As a person who really tested the healthcare system and their brand new insurance coverage which started July 1….. I am still paying off the Deductible and out of pocket (over $5,000) and it started all over again Jan 1. My next CT in March will go to the $1500 deductible before it starts paying at 80%… yep it is one of those consumerism plans… I chose the HIGH paying option…. aren’t I lucky?
Friends who live in BC Canada have their health coverage deducted from their pay on a sliding scale progressive rate. For a family of four they pay around $1000/year.
So…. I pay X per month for my share of the insurance(deducted from my paycheck) AND $1500 to have the plan pay at 80% and additional $3000 to have my plan to pay at 100%…. lets see … what would I choose?
Save our Economy and Nation. End the War.
Simple Answers to George Bush’s Fuck-ups.
He clearly hasn’t been to a Special Olympics competition. My Optimist club has been running the Spring Games here in central Iowa for the last thirty years. There are some fantastic runners, high jumbers, and shotputters competing here. I don’t think Lewis would do well. Maybe he is thinking of the Tennis Ball Throw. Most of those competitors are wheelchair-bound and either push the ball off a tray or knock it off a traffic cine.
Well, Mary ‘what’ do we ‘do’?
Count our blessings, thankful that it is not us ‘yet’ and ‘hope’ that we, personally, will ‘luck out’?
Maybe we need to truly understand that it is, already ‘us’ and, holding our noses, what, vote for the —– —–, and ‘hope’ for something more? What ‘more’? Justice, true equality, on every level, more-humane ‘policies’, something that approaches a sense of the fundamental need for basic dignity in human experience.
Thank you, Mary for responding.
Somestimes I wonder if people really read what others are ’sharing’ or truly saying.
I’ve no answer (at least none that will be acted upon, in ‘time’) but
we are ALL in this together and nobody, not even the wealthiest, most-powerful among ‘us’ will escape the consequence of hubris, inattention, greed and inhumanity.
He took the “W” sticker off his 4×4.
I wonder what that guy thinks now?
About how evil brown people are trying to steal his $30K/yr job?
Or maybe asking what “Nascar Republicans” think might include a bit of an inherent contradiction?
(full disclosure – being from Indiana, if there are cars going fast and turning left – I’m watching. Same kinda thing happens when a basketball game comes on…)(I guess I’m a stealth “Nascar-basketball Democrat”).
Good for you. Seriously – that’s a good thing you’re doing.
That’s why one has to somehow deal with people who gripe about it being “mandatory” and make them pay their fair share into the system.
But at some point. if someone does in fact try to evade all that has been done to encourage, seduce, pressure, and push them into participating we should do the same thing as we do with SSI non-participants. If they have any resources that they have accrued by avoidance the government can take it from them.
In all these systems the poor are covered…most of the people who don’t want to participate are those that assewrt that they don’t want or need government support…and then come knocking when they have an issue. These are the wealthy or the “Sponge” libertarians (the ones who used public education, student loans, and all the other benefits of the New Deal to get where they are…only to announce…why should I help others!).
That is my point. There is little enough to say. Perhaps there is NOTHING to say, but it does hit ‘home’.
And that is also my point. Which you have understood. That is obvious, because you responded, thank you.
I agree. That’s a nice term, “sponge libertarians.” I think that probably describes almost all of them as well as those who choose to call themselves conservatives. One of my favorite examples was Dick Armey, who made livlihood on taxes as a college professor and politician while railing against government and taxes. When his 30 something son lost a run to fill his seat, he was miraculously selected as a Regional Adminstrator for the Dallas General Services Adminstration.
We can use the same term….. “Investing in America for Americans”
When you have a healthy population….
More productive, do better in education, reduce bankruptcies/debt… etc
It also goes along with such silly things as….
guaranteed paid sick leave
guaranteed paid maternity leave
guaranteed family leave
But that is not what the Repugs want….. they want us distracted with trying to deal with the red tape, debt, working multiple jobs so that we have NO time or energy to fight them…..
Of course the Republican canbdidates are asserting that the Canadians have to wait in long queues to receive treatment, so they come accross to the US to get treatment.
Ahem…this bald-faced assertion is made with NO evidence! And how precisely is a Canadian going to use the US system unless they purchase a US Heathcare plan and face the same idiotic waiting systems and threats of non-payment by their insurers the rest of us do!
No…the Canadians, if they really faced these issues would not come to our screwed up sysytem. They’d go to Mexico, the Philippines or Malaysia for treatment. That’s where Americans are increasingly fleeing to in order to get cheap and quick dental, visual, and surgical solutions to the F***-up US health Care system.
But in fact, the Canadians have a very good system…mainly because they have regular screening and excellent preventative care.
man o man,we need to be up in arms with a Luther type set of demands to throw at every congresscritter in this broken country
Your last sentence is the salient ‘truth’ of the r-thugs tenure.
Ron Paul is another. It’s not like he didn’t go to a Public HS and receive Federal support for his medical education at Duke (which is Private, but whose students and faculty receive Federal loans and grants that make the program solvent). He’s on Federal health insurance, will receive a Federal pension, and justifies putting into bills lots of pork for his district…which continues to re-elect the libertarian…whose principals, of course, they truly believe.
I think there are stats on waiting times in Canada vs. U.S. and, iirc, they show lower waiting times for routine work in Canada and somewhat higher for procedures where little harm comes from waiting. But don’t take my word for it.
As for Canadians using U.S. medical services, it’s probably mostly the rich or desperate who do it now. Back in the day when U.S. was not so expensive, more could afford to come accross the border. I’d like to see the trends. Bet it’s receding.
But that is not what the Repugs want….. they want us distracted with trying to deal with the red tape, debt, working multiple jobs so that we have NO time or energy to fight them…..
————-
thishas been going on for at least 25 years….it just gets more stressful,with ethe advent of cell phones and instant messaging imo
yes i saw that ,you are CORRECT
Heads Up:
Now on C-SPAN2
Less Safe, Less Free: Why America Is Losing the War on Terror
Author: David Cole
Cinnamonape you are on a roll, just adding my appreciation for your word-smithery. ‘Sponge Libertarians’ shall pass the lips of many, thousands, perhaps and be instantly understood by many more.
BTW, Maher Arar is David Coles’ client.
Less safe, less free, but will we be forced to vote based on who can marry?
thanks.
Please don’t do that. I took care of a nurse who decided to stop taking the meds because they head some undesirable side effects. He had a stroke.
He was in neuro ICU for almost a month after that, and his family finally took him off the ventilator.
At least we are here discussing the nuances of a Federal Health Care system expansion under a potential Democratic President. Meanwhile Bush’s budget is slashing Medicare and cutting Federal assistance to medical schools (hopefully relaxed HB-1 visas will attract the necessary Phlippino and Indian doctors we need…”Paging Dr. Maglalang, come to brain surgery regarding patient Michelle Malkin stat!”). Nursing crisis, mentally ill veterans on the streets, Emergency rooms under seige, exponentially increasing costs of pharmaceuticals and insurance…all are essentially ignored by the Republican “dwarves” on the other side. They believe that the “free market” profit-making insurance companies and HMO’s whose primary goal is to increase profitability and dividends to investors is just hunky-dory.
The lack of a social contract or even a social conciousness in this country is truly depressing. Non-sectarian Europe looks more inviting every day. I really get tired of the haves saying personal responsibility is the only way to go. They change their tune pretty quickly when THEY lose their jobs, though.
And yes, I’ll pass on ’sponge libertarians’, Bob.
It’s been a long term issue. I was nine years old during the 1952 election. Truman had previously brought up the idea of “socialized medicine.” During the election, Eisenhower was strongly opposed to the concept. I can remember hearing my dad say, with disgust, “Eisenhower never paid a doctor bill in his whole life.”
Some of our “representatives” have sold their souls to big pharma and the health care insurance industry.
mentally ill veterans on the streets,…
It occurs to me that, as I live in a mostly rural state, the large majority of people here (Indiana, *s*) fall into one of two categories:
a) they’ve never seen, up close and personal, the problems of either homelessness of mental illness, and certainly not at the same time, or
b) that the knee-jerk reaction (as I’ve seen and fought in the “comments” section at the IndyStar.com) is that being homeless, addicted, or otherwise ill, is evidence of nothing more than personal failure, and should most certainly not be “rewarded”.
Ignorance is astonishingly, in 2008, fer-chrissakes, wide-spread, fed by Bill Orally and Rush, is monstrously dangerous and must somehow be overcome.
I miss John Edwards.
Do you, then, actually remember that election?
I started my journey round the sun four years after you and the first election I can recall was in ‘56, mostly because of comments like those of your father. Clearly, what was going on was quite important to adults around me, so I paid some attention.
BTW I see an very interesting political commercial on the horizon. It opens with a prescient scene from the Simpsons circa 1992 when Homer is looking down into the cradle of little Baby Lisa. Homer says “Oh my sweety, I’ve already opened up a college savings account at Lincoln Savings and Loan for you.”
[Note: this actually happened, Lincoln only later went bankrupt.]
“Dohhhhh!”
Fade from a picture of Homer into John McCain. Caption: McCane was one of the notorious Keating Five Senators, who were investigated for taking bribes in the 1990 S&L Scandal…and the only one still in office today. The others stepped down from their positions or retired. McCain received $123,000 in contributions from Charles Keating and requested government investigators to “back down” in looking into Keating’s Lincoln Savings and Loan.
Over 1000 banks and S&L’s received an over $150 billion bailout for bad loans made in the real-estate market in the 1980’s and 1990’s…increasing your tax bills and the deficit.
Is John McCain the man we want handling the Sub-Prime Real Estate crisis?
“Dohhhhhhhhh!”
Yes, I can remember it as well as the 1956 election. My dad was a printer and an officer in the International Typographic Union, so we were some of the few liberals among southern Democrats. At school, I was an Adlai Stevenson supporter and was always outnumbered by those supporting conservatives, until 1960, when it was about half and half.
On of my earliest memories is of my highly politicized family watching the Army-McCarthy hearings, like other families watched wrestling. My parents both jumped up and cheered when Army attorney Joseph Welch said, “At long last, sir, have you no sense of decency?”
I too, remember the Army-McCarthy hearings, my father, who was a professor and his fiends, including several who were European, would meet at our house and talk about their concerns. I recall one professor who had come to this country from Austria, making the comment, ‘You have Nazis in your country.’ I asked my father later what that meant. Crosstimbers, you and I were most lucky, I think, in choosing our parents so wisely.
Agreed, and I sure miss them. But, I’ve been able to convert one wife into a solid liberal, raise three rock solid liberal children, and placing seeds with the grandkids. Only thing, DW, is my parents always told me that they chose me? LOL.
In the past five years, America’s briskly rising productivity has been the envy of much of the world. But again, there’s been no corresponding increase in most people’s wages.
why would anyone think rising productivity would mean better living for the average worker? “productivity” is dog whistle for getting machines to do jobs people used to do. Its what has pushed most workers into lower paying, less skilled jobs. The only ones that should be excited about rising productivity are the corportists chieftains eager to shed payroll.
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Just a little nit to pick. SSI is an income program for disabled adults who do not have a previous work history of 40 consecutive quarters. By definition, the people who receive it have not “paid into the system.” People who are past retirement age can and do receive it, but their Social Security retirement check is reduced dollar-for-dollar by the amount they receive in SSI. Since their work history during their lifetimes was usually sketchy, they don’t have much coming to them in retirement funds and SSI makes up the difference. In that way, it acts sort of like a pension.
The SSI payment rate for 2008 is the princely sum of $637 per month. Some states supplement that amount.