I don’t know about you, but after watching the debate last night, I’m pretty excited about our candidates. They were articulate, knowledgeable, passionate, reasonable grown-ups.
No idiotic calls to double Gitmo. No squabbling about who thinks Iraq is more awesome. No nativist demagoguery. And they both accept evolution!
I didn’t think it was possible a couple weeks ago, but Hamsher is looking like the smartest one in the room — again — when she predicted a Clintobama ticket. In the throes of martinlutherkingjesseefairytalegate, I didn’t think that was possible. I’m sold.
Kennedy and Johnson were a ticket, remember.
But even if that doesn’t happen, I’m ready to go to war with either one of these candidates. I like Hillary on health care. I like Obama on the war. I like them both on a bunch of stuff.
If the GOP really wants to alienate their base and nominate St. McCain, in the words of John Kerry, Bring. It. On.
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Two in a row, a real first?
Yeah. I agree whole hartedly.
Bring. It. On.
A Clinton/Obama or Obama.Clinton ticket will be the only way to unite the Democratic Party if what I’m seeing over at dKos is representative of the Party as a whole.
Hi Blue Texan!
Hill and Obama: kumbaya time indeed. Lovey dovey…
Blue Texan, I’m in absolute agreement. Even the staunchest Republican in my office had to agree that last night’s debate set a standard for how it should be done. (He’s already confessed he’ll probably vote Democratic this time around. I try to be kind about “his” candidates, but can’t quite pull it off!)
Amen to that, BT.
McCain is a nutjob. Wheels have come off the bus indeed. I like that Obama line and the line about changing the mindset that got us into the war. That is profound. That got me on Obama’s side as a former Edwards supporter.
I like Hillary on healthcare too, but I doubt either one of these candidates will challenge the status quo like John Edwards would have on healthcare. So effectively eliminating healthcare as an issue brings me back to the war. It must end as soon as humanly possible and Obama seems most reasonable on the war.
I was supporting Edwards and now am in the process of decidering how I will be voting next Tuesday. Some of my thinking can be found here.
I think I’m getting behind Obama.
he’s seeming crazed to me.
Hi BT!
Last night’s debate, and the media voices’ follow-up after and this morning should have the Republicans scrambling to try to figure out how to remain in existence, much less relevant.
Our candidates do us proud. And give us hope.
More and better Democrats. [ND’s lone Congressman has endorsed Obama–he now has backing of 2/3rds of the state’s Congressional delegation. Dorgan uncommitted]
But I will have to say again that a Hillary (P)-Obama(VP) or Obama (P)-Hillary (VP) ticket is a stacked identity politics (gender and race) ticket that will not work in 2008. 2012 or 2016 maybe. America is not ready for one right now.
I was proud of both of them. Also, I happended to run across a Michelle Obama speech on C-Span while looking for the debate, and suddenly wondered if she ought to be the family member running. Anyway, we’ve really got winning candidates if they, and we, don’t tear the Democratic Party apart.
It’s not — most Democrats do not pay attention to any of this in remotely the detail that any of us do. In SC, for example, exit polls were saying that more than 70 percent of Obama’s voters would vote for Clinton if she were the nominee. Ditto for closer to 80 percent of Clinton’s voters about Obama. And that was a heavily contested state coming on the heels of the media trying to play up the race versus gender split.
I disagree. When people find out McCain is as old as dirt, they’ll rethink him. Bias against age seems to be pretty strong, especially in a change election.
They did a good job healing the rift between Clinton and Obama camps. I read a lot of posts saying they will not vote if so and so wins. I think as wizened FDL vacationers, we need to address this when we see it.
C/O or O/C, and with people like Edwards, Dean, Clark and all the other capable people that can be brought in to right the ship of state leaves me encouraged. Lets start paying attention to the House and Senate so we can grab super majorities. Maybe then we can see Dirty Dick and Chimpy frog marched in the history books.
Right on to that. The pukes look like a bunch of lying wannabes. There is no comparison to anyone who tries to be objective and see what these candidate are saying.
But of course, the American people have proved to be suckers for PR and media washing and I wouldn’t bet on them from casting millions of votes for those slackers.
It looks like we could see a dem landslide with some mighty long coat tails this fall.
The we get to see what that crowd can do to clean up the Bush disaster. Too late for millions however. They paid the ultimate price for Bush arogance.
Take a look at their policy statements on net neutrality. IIRC Obama has a really good on. Hill has a bad one. I’ll have to go find linkies but I think that OpenLeft covered it quite a while ago.
As I see it, the country is ready for a black president. Or a woman president. I’m not sure they are ready for both on the same ticket just yet.
So how do the candidates plan to unify the Party after one or the other had been nominated?
I would suggest that last night’s debate is a good example of how they should behave from this point on. They need to focus on beating the Republican, not each other. And they need to keep the Democratic Party unified and focused on the real opposition.
Either one of them would make a fine president, better than anything on the other side.
How about an O/C ticket and then bring on Edwards, Biden, Gravel and Dennis to cabinet posts?
Adults, yes. Very nicely done.
By way of electability, let me relate the following anecdote.
3/4 thru the debate I got a call (on a different subject) from a conservative, though very thoughtful & knowledgeable friend. He owns a manufacturing business in VT that employs over 100 people.
After the subject of the call, we talked about the debate, which he wasn’t watching. He is leaning toward Hillary over McCain, as the Clinton environment is a known quantity. If it came to Obama vs. McCain, he’ll vote for the latter, as he distrusts Obama as an unknown, untried person in issues that are important for a prez.
He’ll vote for either Hillary or Obama over Romney, whom he considers to be a nutcase.
In other words, on a sample of one, Obama’s inexperience is a decisive factor in the general election.
found link.
Edwards for AG (or a SC nom), Biden for Sec of State
‘morning all – I think a Clinton/Obama ticket would work just fine… brings a tear to my eye, I’m so proud of my Dems…
As an Edwards supporter, I find I lean towards Clinton for her health care, education stance and on experience…
What would Gravel’s post be? Minister of Decriminalization or maybe a ambassadorship to some distant land?
One think I find astonishing is the amount of money the Democrats have been raising. Obama raised 32 million in the month of January alone. McCain raised 36 million all of last year. Amaxing. Americans are thirsty for change. Notice the positioning of the Right Wing Neo Con nut jobs like Malkin and Rush claiming that if McCain is the Republican nomination he will destroy the GOP party. The fact of the matter that the conservative policies that the Right Wing o’sphere has been embracing for the past 7 years is what destroyed the Republican party. It is enjoyable to watch the blame come in. Link to fundraising article.
Works for me.
I’d guess that the people that would be put off by that would be put off by either half of that ticket as President and are mostly Republicans anyway. I really don’t think there are that many of them any more except in places we cannot win anyway. These are the two people judged to be the best from our strong field, why not put them both on the ticket?
and another
Watching the Republican side of this presidential campaign so far has been the best entertainment I’ve seen in years. I’d rather watch Olbermann than go to the movies. Watching Rudy go down was especially delicious.
Completely agree. One at a time. Not both at once. Again: this country is not ready for both at the same time.
Maybe it goes without saying that more and better Democrats applies to the consultants and campaign teams as much as the candidates themselves. Naaaaahhhhhh.
I’ve been very impressed by the campaign the Obama team is running. Sharp media, strong community organizing effort. We’re seeing an all-star team…ready to run against the retired globetrotters on the Rethuglican side.
I am more than ready for living on the hopeful, helpful side of life, rather than the dark fearmongering corrupt world that is BushCo
Let Them Eat Mud Cookies
But then you look at what the Republicans are bringing to the table and you realize that this may be an opportunity to say, “Yes We Can!”
Maybe that’s why Edwards hasn’t endorsed one yet. Maybe he is included in the negotiations somehow.
I disagree, if people could be moved to vote for either one I don’t think the running mate would stop them.
The Republicans are all over themselves on the TeeVee this morning calling McCain a liburrul.
McCain will run on national security and cover his right flank by opting for some snake handler VP from the south, and after the debate on Reagan’s corpse the other night I’d say the chances are not bad it’ll be Huckabee.
The GOP is already going after Obama for his Paris Match statements about a Muslim summit. He’ll want someone with a more hawkish reputation for cover, so his VP ain’t gonna be Russ Feingold, you can just get that out of your head right now. He’d go with someone who had Hillary’s history, or one to her right. Whether she’d take it or not is another matter, but conventional wisdom holds that in the border states McCain would crush him with anything less.
I have been receiving calls from the Obama campaign for the last week or more. Nothing from Clinton, though perhaps that is because she is taking NM for granted. I know last summer, besides Richardson, the public I was registering to vote were mostly looking for Hillary signs and buttons.
I was sure for Edwards. Notsosure for the H & O.
We ALL love Edwards here becuase of his progressive stance but, in my opinion, he did zero for in the last presidentail as the vp candidate. Why in the world would we want to do that again?
I think you are right. The national party dynamic changed when the Southern wing of the Dem party became Thugs. From reading polls on various subjects, it seems as if the distribution of 44%R, 46%D 10% either way is the country is divided. The 10% is the key. I suspect that there are a few “never vote for a black” in the 46% and 10% but not many. There are probably more not vote for a woman.
Wes Clark, but I don’t think he would take it. He is loyal to Hillary. Speculation of course.
You bet he is. Both candidates started off praising him and credited his positions on a number of issues. There must be some very interesting phone calls back and forth right now.
[Cheney: hang up that surveillance phone. These calls are not your business.]
McCain-Huckabee!
McCain-Perry!
I think McCain thinks he’s gong to win the general election
Morning Jane!
I’m thinking that Obama would pick a Governor for VP, maybe Richardson. He ’s got the experience. He’s done EVERYTHING (Gov, Cabinet, Congress).
I’ve been wondering if Obama ends up with the nod, if Wes Clark will then be brought in to undercut the McCain military sheen. A whole host of interesting dynamics at play on all sides at the moment. And I think Huckabee is a very good guess on the GOP sides of things. McCain likes the cut of his smart-assy jib.
McCain also loves the fact that Huck is killing Mittens the longer he stays in.
If I were going to venture a wild guess I’d say he wants the VP slot and both think that a) he’d be a liability, and b) they might not be in a position to make that deal (superdelegates may force them on each other). I saw Teddy’s entry into the race as a sign to the Clintons that they can’t run this train again, they are answerable to other power structures within the party who are going to assert themselves (though there are many ways to read those tea leaves).
Not that I agree with a), but that is how the political establishment tends to think.
Got to work this morning and had the surprise of my life — my daughter, who has always hated politics, has launched an Obama website. Her blog about it brought tears to my eyes.
I watched the debate last night and was proud of both candidates — but if change has to start with the belief that change is possible, then I have to go with Obama. If Obama can convince my independent daughter (who has the smallest carbon footprint I’ve ever seen, but who has never worked for a candidate beyond voting) — and people like her — then I think he’s the candidate we need now.
The last link is a stitch. Read the comments to see just how miserable some of the r’s are.
Maybe. If it happens I’m certainly not complaining. It’ll prove that this country is much better than I thought. And I’ll rejoice…
Richardson may have experience but did not seem like a good campaigner to me. And you know how important that is (think Gore, Kerrey.)
maybe negotiations are for O/C or C/O with Edwards as AG
McCain is bound to melt down sooner or later. With all of these endorsements, the pressure is building. I’ll be surprised if he makes it to the convention.
I’m not sure either would be willing to take the back seat on the ticket, although they are both young enough to run again in 2016.
And some firepups too!
What are the odds for MccCain/condi rice?
True dat
if you keep saying that over and over, sounds like a choo-choo train
I also find it interesting that the Kennedy family is split. Ted and JFK’s faction are in Obama’s camp while Bobby Kennedy’s side is solidly behind Clinton.
ewwww
Interesting
My daughter(34) who voted for Bush and has seemed totally disinterested in politics is watching debates and likes Obama
And yes, an Obama-Wes Clark ticket may be viable…but somewhow, my gut feeling is that Hillary will get the nomination. And then we might be talking about a Hillary-Clark ticket–which may be stacked as well: the Arkansas connection.
Interesting isn’t it? November is shaping up to be a contest between the militarism of the last fifty years and a new way forward. I think once people see that John McCain can’t articulate what “victory” in Iraq will actually mean, they’ll vote for the Democrat (whoever he or she might be) or stay home. Take any sound bite from the Republican debate and any sound bite from the Democratic debate last night. The Rethugs sounded pissy and cranky and had remarkable few facts at their disposal. The Democrats were intelligent (and don’t underestimate that after four years of Dumbya), witty and chock full of facts to back up their position. It’s a no-brainer, folks, and there are no brains on the Republican side. Let’s face it, when Joe Scarborough comes up with a slogan mocking McCain (”Endless war, no jobs”) they’re in big trouble.
Hi Jane!
Corporate media will work very hard to make him President. I am sure they already have a lot of stuff ready to go against Hillary and I am sure they are working on Obama/Rezko and Obama/Muslim and Obama/Kenya stories as we speak. It is going to be very ugly and McCain has the best chance of all of the Thugs of pulling off a win.
I read somewhere that McCain had to take our special life insurance to borrow money in case he didnt make it to the convention.
And yes, I think this country is ready for this combination of African American and Female, and I give much of the credit to Obama, because as cynical as I have become, he has convinced me that Yes, We Can!
Hmmm, I wonder if Clark helps Hillary that much. That’s hawk-hawk. Actually, Clark might be more of a dove than Hillary.
I think Edwards doesn’t want VP. He’s done that. He has another life that’s more important to him than playing second fiddle (kinda like Gore, only less so). Other positions of responsibility like AG might attract him.
Obama/Clinton is theoretically possible, but doubtful.
Clinton/Obama won’t happen – Clinton has already decided on Clark for her veep.
An Obama-Edwards ticket will be formidable, in the French and English senses of the term: French: cool. English: hard to beat.
Yes, i think Clark IS more of a dove than Hillary
I think I pretty much agree with your assessment. The 10% are always a problem, in that they are not really that interested in politics and are subject to wedge issues and platitudes. I think right now they are sick of the war and sick of Bush, but who knows what wedge issues they are susceptible to in the last few months. I would merely suggest that the Democrats do not take up the guantlet, at least for this election, over guns, gay marriage, and abortion. Additionally, Democrats should have a lot of reassuring answers to allay fears of another great Saracen attack. All of us have strong feelings about those issues, but it seems to me they are secondary to erasing every vestige of Bushism, at least over the next few years.
I think that a McCain/Huckabee is would be the ultimate proof that the Republicans don’t really want their party in the White House for the next term. It’s a Democratic wet-dream.
As I’ve watched what’s been going on over on the other side during this campaign, the idea that the Republicans don’rt want the next presidency is a concept which explains most of their bizarre behavior.
Either that or they are just plain crazy, and I don’t believe that. They are setting themselves up for 4 more years of Hillary-bashing.
This is nice
Two bombs in busy Baghdad animal markets have killed at least 64 people.
An Iraqi official said the devices were attached to two mentally disabled women, and were detonated remotely.
It was a macho dominance thing that male primates tend to do. Clinton lost.
Be careful about wording. The life insurance policy is to pay his campaign debt at some point in the future if he is outvoted before the convention, not if he dies before the convention. At least that’s how I understand it.
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/…..n_loan.php
Are you looking for trouble again, Raven? *G*
Hillary would be very smart to have Clark as VP as he doesn’t need to establish military creds, and he would give her cover should she tack dovish.
That’s hawk-hawk.
no hawk, let alone most average males would trust HRC’s hawkishness just because she is a woman. With Clark, a few MAY be able to get past it.
.
The surge is working. /snark
Now, that’s repulsive, and should repulse even fundies.
I think Teddy endorsed Obama was a counter strike against Hillary’s LBJ comment. Protection of the JFK story is job #1 for Teddy and the JFK civil rights record is a problem for that story. The telephone conversations between JFK and Ross Barnett are an example.
Hi everyone
Ann Coulter is supporting Hillary (!) – per Drudge
Also, I don’t know if anyone noted this but Obama also has an opportunity to name one of the Dem women Governors as VP (which would be pretty neat vis-a-vis the age 50+ women’s support especially for Hillary.
Pace Raven @ 75:
Do Ds still think they have to have a southerner on the ticket?
There will never be an Obama/Clinton ticket. He is the clear winner and she wouldn’t sit second chair if her life depended on it.
Actually, a ticket with both of them (either way, O/C or C/O) would be assassination insurance: what wingnut would shoot Barack if Hillary would succeed, or vice-versa?
That story is linked in the original post, but not to Drudge.
i think Clark IS more of a dove than Hillary
reply
nearly ALL of the Generals are more reluctant to engage the US military in combat than the A-hole politicians, simply because they know the cost and that victory, any victory is pyrrhic…excepting of course some Generals that have political aspirations such as General Betrayus.
And just how in the hell do you know this? Did you talk to her?
Interesting point!
Plus, Bill Clinton’s comments. FWIW I think Bill Clinton is probably on a heavy drug load after the quad bi-pass, some of which promote un-hibitedness(hence his anger management issues, and inappropriate comments, perhaps. I am not saying he is not responsible for his remarks/ actions – he is. But, his earlier great political skills are probably impacted by this. Put another way, there is no way the Bill Clinton today would get elected.
Clinton/Clark would be two Chicago area natives.
Got a strong tummy?
Hannity and Coulter on Hil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuTqgqhxVMc
The headline at HuffPo on this matter reads:
my hint was that he endorsed her awfully early
Janet Napolitano might work. She used to be a Big Dawg supporter, especially during his impeachment troubles…
Plus, for Hillary, Bill is a real negative. My sweetie brought up last night the possibility that Bill’s outbursts aren’t in part his deep seated discomfort with his wife becoming president, and his become second fiddle, spouse only. I sort of agree, despite what he may say on the surface.
he ain’t no Chicago “native”
Obama was born in Honolulu to a Kenyan father and an American mother. He lived most of his early life in the U.S. state of Hawaii. From ages six to ten, he lived in Jakarta, Indonesia with his mother and Indonesian stepfather. A graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School
Bill has always has impulse control problems, i.e. the bimbo problem. He’s usually been able to control his mouth better than his zipper, but …
I’m not proud to be in America and have long since left the Democrapic party. The behavior of Obama and Clinton last night are irrelevant. The DEMOCRAPIC Senato HAS CAVED ON FISA! They have, officially, agreed to procedures that ensure passage of a FISA bill WITH immunity and NO oversight.
The ONLY hope is now the House, which has been my contention from the beginning. The Senate is dead. It is filled to overflowing with traitors to the United States and is a lost cause.
POUND the House with our demands that they uphold the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and their goddamned oaths of office when the conference bill is produced.
I WILL actively vote against the Dems in November, regardless who is the Prez candidate if a bill with immunity in it actually goes for Bush to sign.
Talking about Clinton–not Obama…*g*
??? Clinton/Clark Chicago area natives..you are correct about Obama.
My bad
While McCain is way too belligerent on foreign affairs to be acceptable to me, there would be an upside to having him to run against. There would be minimal talk of “faith” or “God”, and minimal scapegoating of Hispanic immigrants. And the fact that he got as far as he did without money is an encouraging example for American politics.
The debate is being rerun on CSPAN, don’t know how long it’s been running
Ah yes, an exotic Kenyan-Kansan mix, as someone on MSM print media called him last weekend…
As was pointed out downstairs on the FISA thread, The dems didn’t “cave”, they did what they wanted to.
Isn’t Wes Clark from Arkansas?
Sort of like my Norwegian-Irish exotica!
The amount of “help” he gets from MSM doesn’t show up on a balance sheet and it is a lot.
Cave, go along with treason…same thing with same result: I am officially and absolutely going to vote ANTI-Dem, top to bottom of the ticket, if Bush receives an immunity bill to sign. The House does its duty or I will be damned if I will reward treason.
Yea but he was “born in Chicago” as Paul Butterfield said.
The Big Dawg had a Bubba eruption…
That’s what happens when you watch Hannity and Coulter talking about Hillary.
*g*
Born in Chicago moved to LR at age four.
I can’t argue with you there.
Why couldn’t Clark be DefSec. I’d love to see a Hillary/Barack ticket. I feel so positive after last night’s debate!
Sorry Skank, yer hitched to the crazy train, forever.
DO NOT WANT.
That really was beautiful, wasn’t it? On so many levels.
Wes Clark would add diversity to the ticket..Jewish father, Methodist mother, Baptist, then converted to Roman Catholicism.
Great, then we could really bomb the shit outta the middle east :/
oy. check out http://www.driftglass.blogspot.com
Gee, with all the Democratic Senators everyone is considering as P, VP, or Cabinet member, what will that do to the balance of power in the Senate?
I’m watching the debate on C-Span. I didn’t really get to see it last night.
It’s Blitz, The Beard, and The Bushie.
BlueTexan, I missed debate, but from descriptions I’ve seen I agree with you. Obama/Clinton ticket would be strong. However, if one believes that much of the power of the presidency is based on the power of the bully pulpit, then you want Obama to head the ticket. Clinton, for all her strangths, cannot inspire Americans. Obama can.
hint – whoever can raise one eyebrow wins
I don’t think he would accept VP slot..ego and things are going to be so bad that the next President may be a one term. He is probably better off working from the side lines..he is young enough to be patient. I don’t think Hillary would accept a VP position..she has already had that job.
My 2 cents and worth both pennies is that McCain has a chance, slight tho it be, of taking the general because of low informaton votoers. My two sons who are both rapid republicans, and discouraged, appear to think that McCain would be the opposite of Bush. hahahahahaha They have NOT been keeping track of McCain’s kissup to Bush and neocons and so his ‘reputation’ as being a straight talker remains in force with many.
McCain has to be shown to be the two-face fool he really is. And his love of 1000 year wars has to be announced with every campaign stop by dems. And they should start right now.
1,735 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Blue Texan and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Yes indeed, the Democratic Party and reality prevailed last night but let’s not get carried away: “I’m ready to go to war with either one of these candidates.” First off, I think that Barak elevated himself WAAAY above Mrs. Clinton both in nuance of position and presentation and, more importantly, he was right on THE WAR and when it’s all said and done, THE WAR is the single issue from whence come all others. Secondly, Mrs. Clinton is still a Goldwater-DLC corporatist Democrat, if she is elected the Republican Party will rise like a Pheonix inside the Democratic Party. And ,finally, I think it’s clear that Barak has experienced the reality of the Clintons and there is no love lost…and if he’s nominated and elected he won’t let either Clinton or ANY of the senior Clintonistas within cruise-missile range of his administration.
It was a great night for progressive Democrats last night because Barak Obama was on the stage…think about how you would feel about Mrs. Clinton if Obama wasn’t in the hunt, forcin’ her to explain and take positions to which she is really opposed . No, dear Texas gunslinger, I’m happy but I haven’t lost my mind…Mrs. Clinton is still Mrs. Clinton and she’ll NEVER get my vote for fuckin’ dog-catcher.
KEEP THE FAITH AND KEEP YER EYES OPEN…YA DON’T WANNA END UP KISSIN’ THE PIG!!
Clark is pro domestic spying. Clark worked and lobbied for Axciom, a big company involved in commercial domestic spying:
From [FreeRepublic link cut — if you want to find something there, you’ll have to google it, because I’m not giving them traffic. — CHS]:
Clark joined Acxiom in December 2001, and played a part in the company’s efforts to market its services to federal organizations involved in homeland security, according to Acxiom spokesman Dale Ingram.
Also, Clark’s work for these mega commercial spy agencies (they can spy and create psychological profiles on you without virtually ANY controls – the Bill of Rights doesn’t apply to them) that obtained huge contracts with the government post-9/11 with DHS. Another example of government outsourcing their dirty work…and Clark was right there in the lead pushing for the government to tap heavily into the domestic spying databases kept by companies like Axciom.
Clark is damaged goods.
I hope that they are both American enough to get past ego, for Christ’s sake. We are in an emergency situation.
Are you kidding me that you are using Free Republic as a source for anything you rely on for forming opinions? The source of the Obama is a Muslim e-mail spam? And so much more…
I agree, on oh so many fronts.
bingo!!!
Norske, i think you got it
The SOURCE is irrelevant. Read “No Place to Hide” by Robert O’Harrow. Also, like it or not, that FreeRepublic article QUOTES AN AXCIOM SPOKESPERSON. You can look at other sources too.
Clark WAS on the board of Axciom. He DID lobby heavily for them (against the people of the United States) for government domestic spying contracts. He DID this. It is on the public record. It is irrefutable.
So true, and apparently there is a big blow out piece about to come out (Murdoch?) on his affairs post presidency. Alas, I think he was much smarter/better as a politician earlier. I think he has lost that.
Ah well, it was nice while it lasted.
The Source is relevent. Because the facts may be documented elsewhere, but the nasty vein of spin they put on everything often taints the presentation of the facts.
You want to make an argument — don’t use lying, smarmy asshats as your source. Because I’m not handing them traffic from here.
How about counterpunch and sourcewatch?
Jim Webb would also be a fabulous VP -but I would HATE to lose him as Senator and have it go back to a republican.
Here’s another Clark story about Axciom. Refute any of it if you wish to try…or ask him.
Counterpunch.
Right on, bro.
Thank you, Christy!
Oh, and for everyone, dial the screaming in the comments back a few notches. Yelling in all caps is rude, and I don’t like having to repeat that on a daily basis because everyone seems to be operating on high emotional gear and a hair trigger response level.
Obama…he does that a lot…
1,735 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and…
Citizen eCAHNomics:
And remember, Clark has always been a stalkin’ horse for the Clintons. This election is not jest about gettin’ rid of the fascist party rule, it’s about cleansin’ the Democratic Party of the corporatists and fascist fellow travelers and relegatin’ the Clintons to the Smithsonian Museum.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…THE WAR IS IN OUR LIVING ROOMS!!!
OK. Fair enough. Instead follow the links to Counterpunch and Sourcewatch (tw3k). I simply picked the top link in a google search.
Two times!
I had dinner with a fried Wednesday night who’s reading Bernstein’s book on Hillary, who said that says Bill is still having affairs. As my friend is a psychologist, we went on to note the difference between the affairs-women vs. the wife, and what that says about Bill’s insecurity. My friend’s general statment about Bill was, “I didn’t realize how emotionally fragile he is.” And my friend agreed that Bill’s verbal erruptions were his subconsciously undermining her candidacy.
I don’t think anyone was questioning your facts., It was the use of the freepers as the source for them that is objectionable. Quote the facts, but go to the real source.
Good morning, Christy! Hi-Ho, off to work i go (sweet being able to work a bit from home, with cat, next to a window, and skip rush hour!)
but Hamsher is looking like the smartest one in the room — again — when she predicted a Clintobama ticket.
Hamsher just wants to see the Chris Matthews on air meltdown.
Barack Obama..Norske.
Sorry…extremely pissed. Also, according to the letters at Greenwald’s blog (Salon), neither Feingold nor Dodd knew about the so-called agreement that they were part of.
I’ll behave, don’t want to see you pull the blog over!!! *g
i have no comeback to a raised eyebrow. slays me every time.
On Clark – my gut sense is that he seems a bit too “20th century” not 21st century (Can’t believe I just said that). And, would he be too old to run in 8 years.
Yep. It’s one of my problems with her.
He sure is…with that Canadian, Betty Sonarch. I have this from a reliable source.
That isn’t what I heard from a couple of different sources late last night. But I have e-mails out to several others today that I haven’t yet heard back from…
Hmmmm – makes sense considering his early family situation. Also that insecurity also seems reflected in all his trips with Bush Sr (certainly strange, clearly approval seeking).
The thing is, surely we’re all over 15 and have followed politics and world affairs for a while. Surely we all pretty well know what we think about Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama, Wesley Clark, and are not real susceptible to change. Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t think many of us log on with the attitude of please spew all the bile you can muster over all the Democrats, and you’ll probably win me over. I’m so wide-eyed and unread.
Weird. Reading that actually brought a tear to my eye.
I’ve been saying that for so long now, and spent years getting ridiculed for that opinion, and it might actually be happening now. That is, if Obama has enough time left to make up enough ground. He started at such a disadvantage and has been closing rapidly. We’ll know soon enough.
I think he might have pump head. My opinion as someone who has known people pre- and post-bypass.
shades of Alien
Hmmm
I gotta dial back on these energy drinks is what I gotta do, pronto.
I actually have a hangover of sorts.
Too much party at the lake fer Busted yestiday.
It is too early to make a determination as to who would be the best VP.
At this point the candidates simply don’t know if the economy or security will be the transcendant issue in the general.
The good thing is that the Democratic nominee will have a lot of very good options.
I was so proud too. Wishing my father were still alive to see a black man and a woman on that stage.
Both candidates were brilliant. I thought CNN did a fair job in not asking any ridiculous questions. They even managed to avoid the snub question. I was pleasantly surprised.
I first have to say that I take everything politicians say with a grain of salt, but having said that, I think Obama distinguished himself in a couple of ways. He repeatedly invoked the notion of getting lobbyists and corporate money out of government. And also consistently spoke about the importance of having the people involved in government.
His response about his running mate and cabinet was also illustrative of the style he might bring to the WH. He said he doesn’t want to surround himself with yes men and women. I think that the Clintons would be less likely to openness. Hillary appears to be intransigent. But maybe not.
I thought Hillary had a couple of awkward moments, when asked the dynasty question and then her “WTF was that” response regarding her AUMF vote. She was so lost. Was she rambling in the hopes that the listeners might forget what the question was? Wow.
Having said that I am always blown away by Hillary’s intellect, her handle on and breadth of understanding of the issues. Arriana’s remark on MSNBC about her passion for bringing the American people digital medical records was hilarious but maybe ultimately unfair. I believe Hillary is passionate about kids and poverty and healthcare. It’s just the politicking that gets in the way.
I will vote for either of these folks in the general, but will caucus for Obama on Feb.10.
What is pump head? I think I know what you mean, but want to make sure.
And what about Cheney?
Ah…interesting. I await and explanation on whether or not they actually were in on a deal to effectively kill their own amendments. I would then LOVE to hear their explanation as to why they caved. It better not be “it’s the only way to get a bill passed” because I want NO bill at all rather than an unconstitutional bill. Here I thought that was their position too.
Guess we’ll see.
Thx.
I actually think Barrack is. Plus (as with this site etc) we can move strongly and he can pick up the wave/movement. The key is his idea of having the hearings on c-span (open public hearings) and his push back against more of the lobbiests than the others. Remember how many of us (zillions) have funded his campaign. He has gotta realize we are invested and want pay back (good government and good policy change).
Obama is – i.e. is interested in change. Plus he has all that grass roots experience. Remember how much Bush got done through the Repub roots (on the bad side). Well we would have that momentum to cut though the congressional log jam.
Yes, I hadn’t thought of Bill in exactly that way, but the minute my friend said it, it was obvious. And indeed, stemming from family problems & how he responded to them.
Still, humans are packages with good & bad. And Bill’s achievements are a testimony to the former.
Clark has little actual political experience and so would be a roll of the dice in a highly scrutinized campaign. Recall how he stumbled badly coming out of the blocks back in 03. UN Ambassador or NSecurity Advisor, but not Veep.
If Obama were the nominee, slightly less likely right now than Hill winning, he wouldn’t run with her, nor would she accept. An uncomfortable mix, both on the trail and in office. Almost unthinkable. But he is likely to feel tremendous pressure from the rank and file of the party to put a woman on the ticket. I find it hard to imagine that after HRC blazing the trail and putting women so close to the top, that BHO would then turn around and say sorry but the majority of the population in this country will have to wait a little longer to be represented at the top.
Now, BHO could go with Blanche Lincoln, helping to win Arkansas and she has experience plus she’s a looker and very articulate. McCaskill of MO is only in her first term but has prosecutorial background and obviously could help win that tough swing state. Gov Sibelius in intriguing and attractive, though winning KS seems like a stretch. Gov Napolitano also might be a possibility, but is it realistic for Dems to try to take AZ going against McCain? Plus, last I checked, she doesn’t have the ideal personal profile, and certain questions might arise.
I really like his “Plan” for making government more transparent than ever before…by far!
http://venturebeat.com/2007/11…..y-officer/
At this point, there is so much innuendo swirling around, it’s tough to weed out the facts from the surmising, frankly. Am hoping to be able to piece more together as the day moves forward. In the meantime, though, what we have is a lot of calls and FAXes to keep the pressure on…with voting beginning on Monday on all of this, we don’t have the luxury of waiting to piece things together before we make ourselves heard.
I’m proud to be a Democrat after watching last night’s debate. I’ll be prouder still if we can stop telecom immunity Monday. Lots of work left to do over the weekend, people.
From upthread I saw a phrase.. ‘frog march in history’.
That should be our rally cry. ‘Frog march Shooter and Chimpy into history.’
Addington, Yoo, and a few others are eligible also.
The Blue Wave continues to gather strength. Al Franken has just moved ahead of Norm Coleman for the first time in the most recent polling. More and Better!
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/….._minne.php
Cheney for sure. Here is a brief explanation. It’s cognitive impairment after bypass surgery.
OT..
(snip)
NYT
Anyone here MoveOn members? Have you voted on whether to not to give official endorsement to Obama, Clinton, or neither?
Bubba’s bimbo eruptions…
Which makes Coleman a good target for calls and FAXes on the FISA mess. Every vulnerable Republican in a left-leaning state needs a buttload of pressure. Make them choose: Cheney or their own jobs. Or, at least, make them think really hard about having to choose — and that there will be a hell to pay penalty for lock-step obeisance come November.
I don’t see how this relates to what I said. But, since were there. I actually contributed to Obama and tend to favor him, but I really get turned off by the anti-Clinton venom. I have to believe that most of the underhanded stuff in the campaign was started by the Clintons, based on what trustworthy Democrats say. However, on the net, it really seems all the other way. I have a hard time telling the difference between the 8 years of Richard Mellon Scaife high cost venom I listened to and the stuff I’m hearing now from supposed Democrats.
I agree. It was a good night for Democrats but for all the civility these two candidates still don’t really like each other. And while both are a thousand times better than any of the Republicans, neither is what I would call progressive. Clinton is Establishment to the core. Obama occasionally makes a pitch to the progressive wing in his rhetoric but I’m still waiting for something more substantial.
If there were some combination of the two on a ticket, it would be dictated purely by the politics and not at all in terms of liking, outlook, personality, or position.
I haven’t…
Power of the Presidency, GOP version:
1. I know what you checked out of the library last summer;
2. My servants (/masters) get out of jail free;
3. I don’t need no steenkin laws.
4. Shoot first, justify later.
Power of the Presidency, Obama version:
1. Hey, do you have a minute? Can we talk?
brodie @177
Napolitano would be an excellent choice. McCain is hated in Arizona these days. Good chance to pick up a red state.
True. But also, peoples’ sometimes are divided in historical terms (like writers & artists [biodun*]- early and late career, and I have been less impressed with his late career.
Thanks for that. It’s what I thought you meant.
Sh*t – I just deletd that email and about 100 others that built up over the last week. Oh well, if someone wants to put in an Obama vote I would be much appreciative. *g*
That’s great news.
Take mine
I’m with you on the venom and have said so. It will be hard to get boots on the ground for a candidate if the atmosphere is so poisoned.
repeating myself here:
I can live with HRC as president (insert recognition of positive attributes here), but I would truly despair if her nomination brought out enough wacko Clinton-haters to deny the Dems the White House.
I find this offensive to women voters.. you can’t just take one out and plug in another… doesn’t work at all for me…
And that’s partly why I am voting for Clinton in the primary.
Moveon has already endorsed Obama http://www.openleft.com/frontPage.do
Alas, I didn’t help!
Alas…I did help.
I apologze, but I read that polling demographic for Hillary a bit ago, though now I guess women as a whole now also are more in favor of Obama. I don’t know the age/gender break down for the two.
Thanks!
Flip-flopper. ;=)
What’s the first step on Edwards’ best course to SCOTUS? AG or parked as a circuit/appeals judge?
Right, Napolitano is popular in AZ, but my other concern was about her personal profile. She’s single, apparently never married.
Okay with me, I’m cool with people’s personal choices. But I’m probably a lot more liberal about these things than a lot of folks in IA and MO. In any case, certain conclusions about her marital status might be drawn, and whether or not they are accurate, we’d have yet another thorny social issue to deal with in addition to a black and a woman on the same ticket.
That seems like way too much for avg folks to wrap their minds around all in the same year.
Whereas a Blanche Lincoln gives BHO, should he get the nom, a way to reach more moderate voters while at the same time having no controversial personal matters to answer. Plus she helps win Ark.
Is this a risk we can afford to take?
Said another, more diplomatic way, I think younger women who have arrived on the scene with the doors already largely open to them do not think that having a woman president is as big a deal as for those women who had to fight in the trenches for every little thing. The 4 women on the View breakdown by age in their support, the two younger ones favor Obama, the two (three with Walters) favor Hillary (and this crosses party).
I think that this is huge.
The Repubs tried to whip up Hillary hatred in NY, but both times it failed to catch on. It turned out that sane indies and moderate Repubs responded favorably to her and her candidacy the more they saw her.
On the other hand, with McCain, it looks like Rs will have plenty of problems of their own keeping their far right base in the tent.
I think both oboma and clinton will galvanize the republican misogynists and bigots and I think either of them is giving the republicans their only chance
put them both on the ticket and the republicans chances double
this is my opinion, plua I do not believe either of these candidates represent progressives, democrats, or the majority
my worst fears, we are might be making it much easier for mccain to win, we will have him for about 3 years till his health fails and the mutt for the next five years after that
I think he could be named as is, the issue is whether he has enough senate support for this, because the Republicans certainly could/would put up a stink and might not want one who has expressed his views so clearly.
It is a very real possibility. If ANYTHING will rally the demoralized GOP with its nutsack Fundies to actually show up in numbers to vote for even McCain, it would be the idea of having both Clintons back in the White House.
We are well into a time when the people would vote for a woman for Prez, but Clinton, like it or not, is a very (very) flawed candidate.
Ot
got straight through to Feinstein a minute ago and told her how I would like her to vote on the Protect America Act amendments.
they asked zip code at end, though I gave it at the beginning. They really didnt want to listen to all four of my points.
Is this a risk we can afford to take?
my point exactly
Yup. Also SEIU is considering making a vote for Obama – we should here today (the issue is if they have enough time to have an impact before supr Tuesday -as per TPM.
And she has proven herself to be an active and popular Senator for the State Of New York.
Right, one of my daughters reacted to the notion of a woman president as, like, of course there will be a woman president.
It was the same kind of response that my son tossed out when I said that in his lifetime there would probably be a manned trip to Mars: “So?”
Which mutt?
I don’t how huge it will be. MoveOn endorsed Howard Dean…
I think, sadly, that simply breathing energizes the bigots of the GOP base. It’s not as though they need a lot of encouragement to be asshats, frankly.
I’m thinking the mutt that puts their mutts on the roof of the car and then when they can’t hold it in they hose their mutt down
that mutt
Coulter would vote for Hillary over McCain, or so she says.
Jane has a new post up about Darcy Burner and entitled “Loyalty”.
gotcha
of course you are right christy, however they hate powerful women, they hate black men, they can’t stand the idea that either will be in charge of this country
I think either or both would be a fine president and surely better then any republican running, however winning the office is another thing and I am certain we are not putting the best candidates on the ticket
all I can do now is pray that we haven’t stacked the deck against ourselves too much
I don’t care what she says, if anybody believes that, see me about a bridge that’s for sale cheap. Those Rethugs are really working hard to make Hillary our choice of candidate!
Another major hat tip to Obama. He is the first candidate that I’ve heard speak to the millions of Iraqi refugees that have fled the war.
I’ve been waiting and waiting for one of them to address this issue, and though it was just mentioned in passing, at least he has expressed concern for them.
Thank you Senator Obama.
Yes and my grad students refer to themselves and want to be referred to as girls!
I supported Edwards. I guess I still do. It’s difficult for me to let go of what I feel he brought to the process. Edwards was the one who spoke to and for me as a voter concerned about the future well-being of our democracy, not just regarding the issues but on the need for real reform. In my view, what we need most is politicians willing and able to stand up to the powers-that-be to minimize at the very least if not rid us of the poisonous influence of corporate and moneyed interests in our system. Please understand I am not anti-business. What I am against in the distortions in and corruption of a democracy that no longer is capable of identifying much less responding to the will of the people.
I agree with the the comment from Obama referenced by MsAnnaNOLA @ 7. Obama inspires when he says things like we must work to understand and transform the mindset that allows us to get into a war like Iraq in the first place. This is exactly right. But inspiration isn’t enough. Neither compromise (or it’s political version, triangulation and bipartisanship) nor divisiveness (or its political version, i.e. Contract for America) are appropriate ends in themselves. What matters most are the policies that matter and the commitment of our representatives to fight to implement policies that actually represent and address the concerns and needs of the vast majority of the American people.
We the people and those who seek to represent us must do everything in our collective power to insure that our representatives are not, and will never again be, beholden to anyone whose primary interests are blind, short-term greed. The time when we had the luxury to live that way has past. The profound appreciation for this reality and the desire to convince the voters of their sincerity and ability to fully engage this challenge is what I want from a progressive Democratic nominee, ticket and administration.
It’s not so much whether AC actually prefers HRC over McC in that matchup, but rather for Dems it would be advantageous for righties like Coulter to be out there publicly dissing St John and keeping his overall support down.
So I like the reaction I’ve heard so far from AC and Limbaugh and the potential for many RWers to stay home this fall. At the very least it might resemble the tepid turnout from the Right that Poppy got in 92. And it could muddle or neutralize the GOP’s effort to turn out their base to stop Hillary.
Thanks Richmond!
Sorry, but this sets a pretty low bar for adulthood, much less progressivism.
America doesn’t need to be ready… only a little more than half does. 270 delegates is all we need.
i love obama. i think he’s exactly what this country needs. I just read someone compare him to “Buttermilk and tobasco”, “Smooth and sharp, calming and hot.” i like that
I was disappointed. And waking up to a new Harry and Louise mailer from Obama about Clinton’s Health Care plan shows that this whole thing is a farce at this point.
Just appalling.
I thought it was a bore. They are both very close on policy (or the way they are presenting it) and seemed to know it was not in their interest to “bash” eachother.
I think the general election debates will be OK – but all that debate showed is that the entire setup of the nomination process is a choice between the same thing (with the excitement of a historic first to placate people).
So they will just bash eachother under the table for the next few days.
As much as I would like to think that a Clinton/Obama ticket would happen, I’ve seen alot of familiar vitrol aimed at the Clinton campaign from Obama supporters. Spewing hateful things reminds me of the religious right nutjobs when they don’t get their way or are gathered together for “Justice Sunday” or something. Hopefully, its the youth-types that are showing thier immaturity. This is the same type of stuff that ended up hurting Al Gore’s candicacy. Led by the media of course.