In just a few minutes, there's going to be another Democratic presidential debate -- the last one before next week's Supernova Tuesday flock of primaries/caucuses, and the first to feature only Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. And it comes at a time when the polls show Obama is closing in rapidly on a tie with Clinton nationally, as well as in many of the states holding contests on Feb. 5th. Think there might be a tiny bit of pressure on Hillary and Barack when the TV cameras are on them tonight?
The danger for both candidates is if they view the debate too much like a cage match, which led to ugly results just over a week ago in South Carolina. As much as it may feel like a fight to the death for the respective campaigns, the nomination contest is really more like a job interview being conducted by the American people -- and you don't get hired in a job interview by running down the other people who are being considered.
Even taking the less nasty approach of "drawing a contrast" can be risky. For instance, on the surface Obama makes a good political point (and, to be fair, an excellent substantive point) with this riff on John McCain yesterday:
"It is time for new leadership that understands the way to win a debate with John McCain or any Republican who is nominated is not by nominating someone who agreed with him on voting for the war in Iraq or who agreed with him in voting to give George Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran [. . .]
"We need to offer the American people a clear contrast on national security, and when I am the nominee of the Democratic Party, that is exactly what I will do," he said.
If Hillary is well-coached smart, she can turn this around easily with a short, simple retort: "John McCain is for staying in Iraq for a hundred years, and I'll end the war as soon as I take office -- I think the American people will see that as a clear contrast." Then Obama is left to mumble, "But what about last year, when... what about five years ago...," etc.
And if he criticizes Clinton as "a candidate who will unite the other party against us," she can calmly note that she had a lot of help getting to that point, from entrenched interests who fought her not because of her personality, but because of the change she and her husband represented -- and if he doesn't think they're waiting to "help" polarize Obama the same way, he's not ready for what's facing him... and voters are taking a huge risk in nominating him.
What would impress me more (as an Edwards supporter who will be casting a ballot on Feb. 5th, I might add) is if instead of just congratulating himself in advance on his ability to frame a contrast with the Republicans and simultaneously build a "new majority" that crosses party lines, Obama would actually demonstrate it. I know it can be done, because I've spent a fair amount of time writing about it the past couple of years, and Barack has even started echoing some of the themes I've suggested. But he doesn't do it very prominently, and I think he'd be better off dialing it up a few notches.
Perhaps I'm wasting my time yammering about this messaging stuff, though. Maybe it's really all about having top-notch field operations (and Jane's right, you could easily make that case based on the state contests so far), not to mention the occasional endorsement that gets you a ton of promotional time on a hugely popular radio show (thanks, Markos). But they're going to debate anyway... so go and watch, and use the comments to document the atrocities, as they say.
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Swopa!
Only two on the stage… 8-(
The GOP has been running against Hillary for the last two years. They desperately want her to be the nominee, which is a big reason I won’t vote for her. They wouldn’t know what to do if Obama won the nomination.
No sniping!!! Go after the Bush Administration and the Republicans!!! Turn every question back onto Bush’s war, Bush’s power grab, Katrina…dayem…go for it…Knock the Puke’s blocks off….No infighting!!!!
Swopahhhhhhhhhh.
I just might get to see some of this if I haul ass to get home.
Practical question- what channel is this on? I need that info so that I can find site and watch online. No TV. Thanks in advance, all.
Oh boy, this should be fun.
CNN, VG!
CNN
Aww, LS, ya know that won’t happen if Wolfie is moderating, he just loves a brawl and himself…
Who’s moderating? The usual suspects?
Michelle Obama was on our campus today to speak…engaging, strong, on- point, inspiring. A delight to listen to her message.
Talk about the polar bears dying!!! Talk about Global Warming!!!
Get the Repubs!!!!
Really?
You think Karl Rove won’t have any idea how to get the wingnut base to fear and loathe a black man running for president?
http://www.cnn.com/video/live/.....am=stream1
Here ya go, VG
No prisoners. This ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco, this ain’t no foolin around.
I know, but if they were smart they would keep turning it around….turn it around….Make the Repubs seem accountable, because they are!!!
I think John Edwards should drink a shot each time H or O mention poverty this evening. *g*
Fork Wolf Blitzer anyway!!!
Ding!! That’s funny!!
Hi Valley Girl…
This is one of the most anticipated primary debates I can remember in a long time. Clash of the Titans.
Go after the Neocons!!!
CNN Valley Girl …
and MSNBC will have post debate coverage with KO and maybe someone we know (think C&L)
OT..Speaking of bears dying..this is sickening:
kos
Anderson Cooper was good.
Yee Haw!! They were paying a grand to get in late today!
Pygmies? I don’t like either of them.
Let’s hope for a good debate. It would be nice to have a pleasant contrast to yesterday’s freak show -though I have to admit I got a weak stomach and could not watch all of the GOP thingee.
The travelling “cess pool” is here, cool.
Holy signs in the audience - it looks more like a rally than a debate
Rachel said she’ll be parsing it with Pat Buchanon too, on MSNBC!
Brown suit, Blagghh.
thanks! can’t miss the last one
W/ regards to #4, it seems to me it isn’t just the RePukes who are running away from/ignoring the 800 lb. gorilla/disaster that is Bushism. With Dear Leader’s popularity hovering somewhere in the 20s, I’m not surprised the RePukes don’t mention him, but in speeches I’ve heard it’s amazing the Demo’s aren’t dwelling on the car wreck he’s turned this country into.
Of course, some Demo’s still applaud his tired macho posturing for more war (SHillary last wk. at the SOTU speech on the success of the “surge”), stare worshipfully at him at public events (Nancy “Neville” Pelosi & Harry Reid)& laud “bipartisanship”. If Obama’s really the candidate of “change” (which we should all hope for) he needs to disassociate himself from the political elite represented by the likes of the Clintons. So far, I’m not ready to hold my breath.
And KO has a FISA Special Comment tonight. Decisions, decisions..
Start hauling Busted!
Happy, happy! Bad color, Hill. She;s afraid to look too feminine sometimes.
How amazing to see a woman and an African American as the two remaining candidates!
I like some of the comments about going after the GOP and the neocons. HRC and Obama can compete to show their comparative moxies for the general election by attacking the bad guys instead of bickering with each other.
Going to be a new “Special Comment” tonight on Countdown. Keith’s pissed again, this time about FISA, I believe. Must see TV!
Jinks, eCHAN. I want to see her wear a beautiful watermelon color sometime.
I hate the brown suit
Substantive issues? We’ll see…
Vote on questions at Politico for those without cable.
No rules? Did Cheney plan this?
Two mantras you won’t hear tonight but heard last night:
“I’m more Ronald Raegan than you. I drink Raegan water, eat Raegan food, and have Raegan tatoos on every part of my anatomy.”
“I can stay in Iraq longer than you can–kill more and paralyze Americans and Iraqis and hemorrhage more billions of taxpayer money and resources.”
There’s always that.
Maybe some day in the future with the “more & better Ds”, we can get some real condidates for prez.
looks like there will be lots of audience participation.
They both face quite a challenge … with Obama moving up in the polls, Clinton needs to beat him tonight … and with folks criticizing him in the past for not being tough enough to beat republicans, he needs to show some tough without going off message. What a scary moment this must be for both!
I missed it. Did Obama win the coin toss?
I don’t like these American gladiator style arena stage set-ups. Why not regular old lecturns and some curtains. Contestants 1 and 2 would be more likely to act like well-behaved civilized people.
What is it with the grammar school desks they’re putting adults behind?
eCAHN….must be.
We’ll have to watch them closely and fight every day regardless. At this point, I’m interested in trying to figure out who has a better chance to win.
seems like they are standing very close together there… maybe it’ll keep the fisticuffs to a minimum…
Corporate media showing who is in charge??
A truce has been called…hooray.
Who’s moderating tonight. I’m not watching the debate, just want to know who’ll be doing the smearing .
Okay, middle aged women out there, how many of you think how do I get whoever does Hillary’s makeup to do mine? She looks good. Maybe a little wrinkly, but I’ll take it. And I’m watching on HD.
Unite against the Administration!!!
Obama says that he was friends with Hillary Clinton before the campaign, and will be her friend afterward. No word about whether he’s her friend right now, though. LOL.
Wolf Blitzer.
Opening statements of friendship and unity. A pretty good start to slap down the MSM petty issues.
I was about to type that exact same thing. Either it will be civil, or they’ll slap each other. :)
Blitzer is moderating and a couple other people I don’t know… opening statements right now…
Wolf Blitzer is moderating.
i dont need to watch - my mind is made up …… but i’ll follow along in the comments ;o}
Thanks all for CNN internet info. Got it on now.
But, trying to get it tweaked my memory about the problem I had last time. Had to open in IE browser. Couldn’t get it via FF, my browser of choice.
JUst a head’s up.
HRC’s starting with the “day one” thingy….Obama’s intro was better than that.
Hillary said poverty first.
If you’re a Lost fan, don’t forget to DVR two hours of Lost.
Tie on opening statements . Both great.
The worst shit is when they do both.
All snark aside, the next pres has a huge mess to clean up. We’ll be in such bad shape that the job will be enormous…and there will be no money.
The repubs have robbed every dime that could get their hands on.
I liked Obama beginning with praise for John and Elizabeth - gracious and well said.
I’m watching on FF — had to download a plugin first, but it’s working fine for me.
YMMV
Thanks folks, hope it will be a good, factual debate.
Did she call him pale?
I hope Obama mentions that he’s for drivers licenses and she’s not.
“not much difference between you 2, what is the most distinctive policy difference”…
Hillary immediately goes to the difference between them and R’s, then to universal health care… mentions Edwards plan and hers are very similar.
Interesting…HRC is dressed in earthtones with turquoise jewelry…
Hillary knows the difference between “among” and “between”! Copyeditors everywhere rejoice!
I’m glad he did. I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.
She’s 3 years younger than me & looks 10 years younger. Don’t like the brown suit but the turqoise jewelry is a great touch.
The debate audience last night was white, white and more white. Tonight’s audience looks like America.
HRC - I’m a hawk on national security.
That’s what the Thugs are counting on..one term Dem.
I hope you are a woman.
same question to Obama… Obama goes first to health insurance (not his strong suit, imo)
Obama - health insurance…children…
John Amato of C&L & Josh Marshal of TPM will be on with the other “usual suspects” on the after analysis of the debate, per Keith.
LOL
The exit polls in Florida and other states who have voted already showed the same thing with regard to the voters in the respective parties.
Surprise, surprise!
I expect them both to court the Hispanic vote tonight, just didn’t expect the visual.
.
applause for “no mandate on health insurance”
Insurance doesn’t cut it, Barak! We need more doctors and universal coverage…
That is so cool! KO puts so many of the cool people on his show!
On MSNBC? Or a blog?
the audience is invitation only… I think the LA Times was in charge of the tickets… big mucky mucks was what I heard…
Isn’t KO supposed to do a special comment on FISA tonight, also?
WTF?
Obama - economy Bush’s fault..Heh.
on MSNBC after the debate
That was my point.
Tijuana tuck and roll?
The Ds look like America. I think that point won’t be lost on the voters, and hope that R racism, sexism attacks will backfire.
At $1k per ticket.
so far, Obama is not stuttering…
It’s LA, they don’t know wtf they are cheering.
Obama, no lobbyist money, and against the war in Iraq at the beginning. Two strong positions.
Hill drinks water when she’s pissed.
Obama - NIE, Iran…offer them carrots and sticks…meet with them.
wow! they are ALL sitting at tiny little desks!
I wonder where the ticket money goes?
Take profit out of health care…. Corporations have no business in the health care arena
How did someone from the Politico make it in there? Blah.
Alrighty! It’s a party!
Women get held to a higher standard in every way, so whatever it takes. *g*
She reaches for her ear too, I’ve noticed…especially when she thinks she doesn’t “get over”…
you just said a mouthful…. and the repugs KNOW they’ve fucked up - and really hope the dems win…
Great post, Swopa. It’s all about framing the debate. ;-)
I like the Brown suit and the Turquoise jewellery … and I’m not a woman … *g*
*Ouch* the CNN female moderator is wearing Brown too, what are Wolf and the other guy wearing ?
I noticed on Timmy’s driver’s licence question a bit of ambivalance, calculation, and hesitation from Senator Clinton.
DHS has a national ID system mandated for states by 2011 or so (without funding of course) that would probably make the driver’s license question moot depending on the federalism litigation that will follow as states challenge the no funding and other logistic problems.
Two real immigraiton problems are seldom mentioned by these two lawyers–1) incredibly ridiculous length of time years to get citizenship
2) INS courts stacked with “judges” appointed by Monica Goodling who have no immigration experience.
Did you catch Teddy Kennedy’s jumping on Mukasey yesterday over the backlog of hundreds of thousands of finished immigration applications–they’re done with the hoops Jane, and it’s implications that the 18-24 month that now exists by this INS and this administration’s failure to expedite them by November will result in the loss of hundreds of thousands of predominantly Democratic voters.
This is a problem that needs to be focused on quickly so these people can vote, besides the other obvious benefits of citizenship.
Hmmm…if you don’t offer health care to the parents…but only the children…you’ll end up with orphans….(just my take)
Obama resisting getting defensive on his health care coverage…
congratulating Ahnold on his health care attemtps (it was a very sucky plan)