The Beard wants to know what the most important differences are in their policies. They talk about healthcare. With the Latino vote potentially the deciding factor in California, it should be interesting to hear what they say about driver’s licenses to undocumented immigrants — Obama is for them, Clinton is against them.
Politico wants to know if African Americans are having jobs taken away by Latino immigrants? Obama says that’s just not true, the lack of jobs is the result of the Bush economy and not the result of illegal immigration. He says that there should be a path to citizenship, that undocumented immigrants should have to learn English and pay a fine because otherwise they’ll continue to undermine wages.
Hillary says that undocumented workers do drive down wages and have taken jobs away (in the meatpacking and other industries) and there needs to be a comprehensive plan with a path to citizenship, and therefore she does not support drivers licenses because it would only exacerbate the problem. She thinks the issue is a diversion.
Obama says we’re not going to have to deal with the driver’s license issue if there is comprehensive immigration reform, because people don’t come here to drive they come here to work. He says Hillary has waffled on the issue. She says she was trying to support Spitzer even if she didn’t agree with him, and Obama waffled too.
Related posts:
- When Wilson Defines Debate, Democrats Squander Chance to Set Record Straight
- Baucus, Reid, Obama Promote Backroom “Bipartisanship” over Democratic Debate
- A Public Option in the Democratic Platform?
- GRITtv Live: Is Immigration Reform Dead?
- Lessons Learned in VA and NJ: Is Rahm Emanuel Orchestrating 2010 Democratic Massacre?
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OY!
KO is rocking, too…!
Go Keith!
estoy aquí
The best part of these debates is Jane’s summary of them.
KO will you marry me???!!!!!???? Please.
Has anyone heard what CNN is getting $$ for a 30 second spot?
Hmm, hmm, hmm, KO has been doing his homework again!
He’s wet behind the ears.
KO on FISA tonight. Great job!
He’s been reading FDL.
Obama getting asked about experience… “I will bring people together”
If you liked Joe Lieberman and Tom Daschle you’ll love Barack Obama.
Amato will have Keith’s comment later. I missed it watching the debate.
is this debate gonna be replayed on c-span later? i’m not able to watch it now.
I wonder how much trouble I’d get in at school if I showed my Seniors every Special Comment KO does between now and the election.
Where have I heard that before?
This is lost…..just ridiculous…… now she’s going to tryyyyyyy and show us her creds……. “my husband was president” that’s all she’s got.
Good gawd, tonight’s Special Comment was music to my ears!
We were F**king cut out during the ad.
When Petrocelli gets here, I want you to know I loved your description of last night @ your 320 downstairs. If that is the perfect analogy! :)
“You are never responsible!” Yeah Baby!
Hillary asked about experience, “been around for 35 years, worked as a lawyer for abused and neglected kids, appointed by Carter for legal services”.
evening all.
whoaaa – as usual…KO’s on IT!!!
Keith said Josh Marshall and John Amato will be on to discuss the debate tonight.
Hillary is clear and precise withe her answers and explains things in way that is easy to understand. She has a beginning, middle and end to her stories, where Obama tends to ramble.
Obama gets wordy and a little side tracked with his explanations on his positions. By the time he finsishes an answer you forget what the question was.
Come again? To whom were you referring?
HOLY CRAP! If you didn’t see KO’s special comment, pray that C&L has it up. Woof! I only caught the last part, but wowie, zowie…
That makes me very nervous..I don’t want to come together, I want the MF’s in prison.
35 years! 35 years! Hmm. 35 years ago, Obama would be what? 9? He couldn’t possibly be experienced enough, right? Blergh.
Hello….. is this thing on?
Hi Betsy!
Sweet!
Thanks Keith for Telling Bush just like it is… the TRUTH you wouldn’t know the truth if it bit you on the ass Bushco
How close are you to retirement? *g*
maybe that’s what he means by bringing them together?
… but I voted for the war…… and iran too…..
Hillary, “Public service is a trust… teamed up with Graham to get Nat’l Guard benefits”.
It’s usually available from several sources. I think it’s even going to be on the Countdown website.
Public service is a trust. – Hillary
I’m here !!! *g*
It’s the Wellesley Way.
Not nearly close enough, but I am tenured…
George Bush is over 60 and look what mess he’s made of America in 8 short years. ;-)
He took Shrub and Darth behind the woodshed and tanned their hides…! ;-)
does the US need a CEO?
I’ll give you that. She is clear. And forceful. That’s why, even though my preference is Obama, Hillary is fabulous second choice.
In my dreams*g*
She was pretty happy about the result for all this bush kissin’ ass years of hers though
The answer to the CEO question is that it is the definition of fascism.
Just got home from a meeting and for the first time in over a year I don’t have the slightest interest in tuning in and watching the debate.
A sorry state of affairs.
Can we afford the golden parachute…?
One of Olbermann’s best Special Comments tonight. Highly recommended to anyone concerned with FISA and telecom amnesty.
Obama, “Mitt Romney hasn’t got a very good return on his investment during his presidential campaign.”
Obama getting some good shots in tonight.
Hillary’s getting more air time.
Good question!! The way the country is headed I am not sure.
Um … just an observation from north of the border … the Dem nominees over match the “CNN 3″, and this was not so obvious last night.
Hillary is doing really, really well tonite.
Do you get MSNBC through the district? If so, show it!
Clinton ducked the Kennedy question….
You are missing a vey fine discussion of the issues by the next President of the United States.
does the audience clap for everything that hillary says?
I think they are both doing well… they look like a good team…
Barack: “I don’t want to diminish the accomplishments of the Clinton years, but we both should be evaluated on our own merits.” Clever.
They’ve both been getting applause.
I don’t think the applause is one sided … seems like a very energized audience with big support for each candidate.
They’re doing the ‘weekly emergency test’ right in the middle of this debate. Buzzing out our dems.
I have alway though of FDR as a CEO…managed two major disasters quite well.
Say what?
Ain’t gonna happen. It wouldn’t be a strong ticket with both of them. :-(
not here.
Obama just got some applause by saying a new generation has come forward to participate in the election process.
Obama: “I don’t want to diminish… some of the accomplishments” of Bill Clinton in the 1990s.
Why throw in the “some” if you didn’t want to diminish them? :)
Rethugs at work I am sure!!
I do find the case Obama is making now my favorite – energizing and bringing in new voters and activists who help us create change moving forward.
It’s a good debate. There’s something about having only two candidates left that makes it more interesting.
THEY DID IT AGAIN.
They both have come to realize that the other one is a competitor, not an enemy.
Nicely said.
question to Clinton about the legacy issue…
Clinton, “we are all judged on our own merits”
Maybe they’ll make an important announcement at the end of the night.
Number two will be whomever doesn’t win number one. I know it won’t happen, but it would be stunning.
The CNN gotcha question to Hillary – Bush and Clinton in the WH for so many years.
The moderators really want a cage match but they’re not getting it .. thank goodness
Bush Clinton Bush Clinton dynasty question…Good question.
Offshore outsourcing of jobs does much to “take jobs away.” Exponentially Indian companies, just as one example are handling everything from tech support, to major US airline reservation changes that the web can’t handle, major US airline scheduling, and all kinds of hotlines for agencies in many state governments.
Convergys of Ohio, a Cincinnati company larger than Microsoft’s 65,000 employees is handling phone “tech support” with cheap, and often poorly trained labor minumum wage labor in 5 large cities in India that has a hard time distinguishing the Start button on a Windows box from their belly button, let alone replacing a lost user account (they tell end users just to wipe the box).
Yeah, but I just don’t want him bringing in no damn Reagan Democrats!
Obama & Hillary look and sound much smarter/brighter than the 3 CNN moderators.
The 4 Repugs did not look smarter/brighter than the CNN moderators last night.
… typing with one hand while holding a glass of Single malt in the other …
Fascinating watching them position themselves on immigration.
I don’t trust either one of them absent significant progressive accountability efforts as president, but its nevertheless interesting.
Even with pressure, I think it will be a fight, but fortunately, we’ve always been able to use these fights to build grassroots power for progressives.
It took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush and it might take a Clinton to clean up after the second one. Best line of the evening so far.
Why do you say that?
I bought my 13 y/o, 19 y/o and 27 y/o Obama t-shirts for Christmas. My 13 y/o asked a couple of weeks ago, Why are you for Obama and not Hillary? I said it’s because I think Obama can inspire a generation. He just mentioned inspiration. It’s an intangible that can’t be measured, but certainly would be felt.
Will they hang with him when the Thugs and Corporate Media start working him over?
“It did take a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush and it might take another one to clean up after the second bush”
she made me vomit with that clintonbushco answer….. gaaaaaaaaaagh.
NO DYNASTY!!!!!! You’ll just be baiting the enemy…….. gahhhhhhh
HRC- “It took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush, it might take another Clinton to clean up after the second Bush.”
That might be the defining line of the entire election.
Hillary’s zinger: Might take another Clinton to clean up the mess after another Bush.
But do we want to take that chance? How bout we try something new…you know, REAL CHANGE???
.
Yes, he does and/or David Shuster… form my sources. Plus, Keith knows Jane personally. We’ve talked about this at FDL…
Way, way, way off base.
Obama inspires and motivates.
Big, big, big difference.
The statement Hillary just made about the Clintons having to clean up after the Bushes reminded me of a protest sign I saw back in 2004 in Portland, Maine (Congressman Tom Allen & Al Franken were in attendance). It read:
“IT’S GOING TO TAKE TWO JOHNS TO GET ALL THE SHIT OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE”
John Kerry/John Edwards. Get it? Bah hahahahahahaha! Loved it.
thx eCAHN. i missed the line and ran to my computer to find out what it was.
Depends on where you are. Dallas, probably big trouble, San Francisco, not so much./s
It is….. It tells Americans they’re caught in a trap…..
She makes the case for herself much better than Bill.
Huge applause…but
the most stunning thing to me is the difference between what I see on the stage tonight vs the R’s last night…
either, or, both… we are doing fine…
I guess I type faster than most.
I couldn’t agree more.
Ain’t that the truth! whoever wins, we’ll still need to keep fighting for progressive ACTION
which is always true
I agree Hillary is on it tonite. She is doing a good job, IMO.
Agreed. Two different leagues…like Little League and Major Leagues.
Yup, on ever issue, either of these two would be better than all the Repugs …
Thanks.
I’m also relatively sure that this realization has yet to sink in with all their campaign advisors and spinners. *sigh*
They’re both controversial– one is the first black candidate, one is the first woman. I think they’ll want to balance that with someone ordinary. Someone boring.
(I’m not saying I approve of the fact that this is controversial, I’m just saying that’s the way it is.)
Protesters outside the debate.
I’m glad they aren’t fighting tonight…
I’m fascinated that AOL/Time Warner’s subsidiary CNN has not had any questions about FISA and telecom immunity.
Hillary- All troops out within a year.
Iraq …. sigh
hmm – imagine that!?!
((( Teddy Bear )))
Excellent observation !
Seeing the crowd outside the theatre and having observed the throngs attending engagements and voting does my heart good. People are paying attention…too bad it took 8 years of Bush to get them to wake up.
Heh… Clinton had a great line… she neglected to say who cleand up Bills mess like getting impeached
cherry picking comments tonight? No anti hillary posters?
oh no … Hillary is making her more than 100,000 civilians in Iraq … working for the Embassy,etc … does that include Blackwater? as far as I know the contractors are the only way you get to “more than 100,000 civilians”
i’m waiting for the debate wrap-up at 10pm with KO…
McCain would be quick to say if they were opponents that when he was in a bunker in Viet Nam, Clinton was in a bunker at Yale law school shacked up in the apartment that Greg Craig now at rented them for $65 a month. Craig later managed Clinton’s impeachment defense, and tonight he is part of the Obama support team, choosing not to support his long time friends from law school and former clients, the Clintons.
He has been deeply critical of them during the past 3 months.
What Senator Clinton is labelling part of “many years of experience that prepare her to be President from Day 1″ most of us call time in school getting an education and early marriage.
She’s including her years in law school, and Obama has near the same amount of time in government that she has, unless you want to count marriage to a President who will in fact be a prime target for the Republicans if she were to have the nomination.
McCain or Romney and the RNC or would much rather have her as a target than Obama.
Hillary’s on fire tonight.
Hillary speaking of her and Barack as a team. Works for me.
hmmmmm…. wonder why?????
Did Hillary just change her statement on Iraq? that is not the policy she has advocated … which leaves 50-70,000 troops in Iraq.
Oh make NO mistake. She plans on occupying Iraq for good. No question.
Let’s have a question about Bush’s signing statement yesterday overruling the law he signed about no funding for permanent bases.
Hillary said most out in a year. Then she says I will talk with the Joint Chiefs.
Obama wants us out in 16 months? Not real happy about that either.
Yes, I’m frantic behind the scenes pursuing my secret agenda. Ya busted me!
Obama: I will end the war, no permanent bases, etc.
We have a whole host of other problems out there…Pakistan…China is strengthening….that is undermining our long-term security….
I voted today, it was 36 degrees and raining. The polling place was busy and from the sign in sheet, 90% Dems.
If anyone is interested, Michelle Obama is on C-SPAN right now.
Barack sounds a little weary.
Siun, that number was always a stretch. She never said she wanted to leave 50-70,000 troops in Iraq.
Cheers!
These candidates are acting like adults. Wonderful after last night.
Barack mentioned the 4 million displaced Iraqis. About time someone did.
Yep; her hair and her pants are.
yes. That’s what she does…. over and over. *shaking head*
My point was that he praised “Benedict Ronald” Reagan, he appeared with a known gay hater, he has admitted he wants to work with the Pukes.
And if you roll with the Pukes you’re a Puke.
Obama … no mission creep, if we were concerned about Iranian influence we should not have installed this government in the first place (oh yes! thank you!)
I’m glad that Hillary made the point about the irresponsibility of Bush handing Iraq off to his successor.
Where’s the passion? Neither sound like they mean much.
Is it a secret *gay* agenda?
Obama: Strike force to take out AQ in Iraq.
I don’t want to just end the war, but the mindset that got us into this.
And Obama: “End the mindset that got us into war.” Awesome.
This isn’t a debate, its a tea party…… get the crumpets.
Blitzer = ASSHOLE
Wolfie still trying to start a fight. Nah gonna work.
They just gave the finger to Wolf. Trying to make them fight. They said we are having such a good time!!!
HA!!!!!
Boy, it sure looks like they smoked the peace pipe tonight. Great news, in my opinion.
I love Maxine!
Excellent!
Why did the GOPs get Andy? Wolfie really sucks.
Pete, somehow, I get the distinct impression you really don’t like Hill…
Propagandee January 31st, 2008 at 6:21 pm
332
Holy Crap.
Clinton’s biggest applause line of the night thus far concerned the dynastic question– why should the electorate look forward to a potential 30 years of Bush/Clintons dominance. Clinton responded that it takes another Clinton to clean up after another Bush mess.
Ahem…Does it strike anyone else that she couldn’t have offered up a a more damning critique of the Corporatist Establishment????
Does she plan to keep paying the sunni insurgents that $300 a month to keep a lid on it?
There are a lot of “Asians” of various nationalities hired by labor brokers to do all of the dirty work. I feel certain that KBR won’t be trying to get them home when them time comes.
What was your first clue?
I still love Kucinich’s idea of having a Peace Department in our government. :-)
It wouldn’t hurt. Princess Diana once pointed out that no one ever died from a hug.
I’m not sure it’s a stretch … several of us have asked repeatedly for clarification and the Clinton campaign has refused to respond with a number. They’ve been told that we would then assume the descriptions are accurate and they have not responded to that.
I’d love to have a clear, precise account of her plans since I have yet to see them and the recent focus on the “100,000 civilians” is very worrying.
you knew that Maxine endorsed Clinton the other day?
That’s one of the best statements made by any candidate so far.
Was there ever any doubt ?!! *g*
Hillary’s good. I’d feel better about her if I knew Bill Clinton wouldn’t be there in the White House with her(Obama supporter here).
Clips of substantiave issues don’t sell commercials. Sniping does. Wolf is watching out for his paycheck.
Was that Chelsea I glimpsed in the front row?
HRC….there are no good options here…untangle ourselves….
I think Iran, Syria will find themselves in very difficult situation as we withdraw, therefore, diplomacy needed….
Good! Regarding W making an indefensible agreement…we will do everything we can to prevent him from binding us….then attacks McCain for 100 years…
you’ve got *that* right!
The gallery mirrors the talent.
Should pass a law that they have to get the workers to their home countries or face criminal charges. Not fines. Jail time for CEOs who leave civilians in a civil war zone.
Hillary gets a specific question about the AUMF and the Levin amendment she didn’t vote for.
Yes, howard…. important question…. I just can’t think of which way the wind was blowing at that time….. gimme a minnit….. er….. blah blah…. I don’t even know what i’m saying ……
gaaaaaaagh. Barak Obama KNEW, I KNEW why didn’t you KNOW????
That’s not fair, accurate or even rational.
yup.
It’s the decisive piece for me … what Bush did was no surprise.
“If I’d known then what I know now….”
Millions around the world knew it. Why didn’t you?
Loved Obama smacking McCain’s “100 years in Iraq” …
“AUMF” is the sound of Hillary asphyxiating that question under the weight of Congressional process talk.
OT–Love your handle. We have several Appaloosas with Zippo Pinebar bloodlines.
If that’s an isult….. er….. I really don’t get those mostly. youd have to really mean it for me to get it :-)
Good point.
You sure rarely hear any discussion of displaced Iraqis by anyone in the federal government or the mainstream media or “the best political team on televison” at CNN. I can’t remember when I have. I’ve never heard a Republican whose emailed talking points from Gillespie are “the surge is doing agreat job–don’t get into any details because they don’t support the claim” mention them.
Many Iraqi women (they aren’t allowed work permits in the non-supportive Arab/Muslim countries) in the middle east or forced to work as hookers now. This is happening all over Jordan for example–despite the glitzy camelot milieu of King Abdullah II and Queen Rania of Jordan.
Which one of my assertions wasn’t fair or accurate? They’re all true and fair.
And Shelia Jackson Lee..all very interesting
She doesn’t understand, or admit, that Obama presents a clearer anti-GOP case against Bush’s war policy.
Wolfie channels Petraeus … omg
I decided to go against my chairman so the UN wouldn’t be in control and voted in favor of Bush to have authority to go to war…he abused it…
The Repukes will try to debate us to blame it on us, but I reject it and welcome the debate.
Shorter Hillary on her AUMF vote: let’s look to the future.
Ok, here’s my take on the Dem prez race:
Hillary and Obama are so similar than different–in a positive way, IMHO, that Dem voters–and Independents–are truly split between them. The Dem house, so to speak, is really divided. Maxine Waters supporting Hillary. Now that gives me pause, because I respect Maxine a great deal. Families are split between the both of them.
Oh and it was a question….. not an accusation so you can dial back. I ask questions. Giving that my comments are now showing…. the answer seems to be no. ’nuff said.
I can’t get over that either. Hardly anyone questioned the Bush Regime at the time the vote on Iraq was going down. Many are attorneys and many ALSO voted for the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act too. Pathetic.
All us Canucks were screaming against the Iraq invasion and we were treated like the French and Germans … like enemies instead of best friends …
Blitzer….the number of US casualties is the highest in 5 months…So some research instead of spending your time trimming your beard with the Miami Device.
-G
Blitzer really should remove the kneepads before talking about David Petraeus. It’s just plain embarrassing.
Fits with his work history.
Obama argues well against the Petraeus getting better garbage …
Obama: Dysfunctional government has undermined our security. I welcome the argument. Bad idea, bad strategy. Not just a problem of execution….exceptionally flawed mission.
Barack sez it’s better to have a Democratic nominee who was always against this war. Argue not about execution, but that it was an exceptionally flawed idea from the start.
Yep.
Reply
Here we go again. Just Kidding.
Love how Obama is rephrasing his argument on Iraq war as a positive for himself, not a negative for Hillary.
Worst year in Iraq for American casualties was 2007. Afghanistan too.
I see it as dynasty or Americans. That’s the choice. The msm already took away the other real choice so if the name is clinton. the answer must be no. We’re Americans and we don’t need to move along to the path to the unknown…. leap of Faith and all like that. :-)
Poor McCain is getting sledged tonight … much more than last night, and he isn’t even on the stage …
Yep … precisely
Obama “conceptually flawed mission” for Iraq … well done, he’s getting closer to what I want to hear and sure outpaces Hillary’s knew then, know now line and refusal to call AUMF a mistake… even now, she won’t say it dammit.
Hillary buying into the Saddam WMD garbage … damn
She said she’ll get them out as soon as is safely possible. Hopefully within a year. She also said the translators and other helpers in Iraq need protection. (or the ability to immigrate?)
Wolfie asks her why she can’t say it was a mistake.
She says she did a lot of hard work. But omits that she did not read the NIE.
Why can’t you say it’s a mistake???
I believe in coercive diplomacy.
WHat about our history of committing mass destruction?
Why doesn’t she ask Wolfie why he was wrong about the war? He was pushing it big time.
Wolfies an idion CLlinton’s NEVER admit mistakes
Obama says that the Government of Iraq is just as disfunctional as it ever was…surge only has reduced the violence back to levels of a couple of years back. No real political progress.
Clearly a sign of success in Bush Bizarro Man Child World.
-G
“No one could have fully appreciated”
YES WE DID
HRC: Bush obsessed with this particular mission.
Unfortunatly, you voted for it when you should have not been so much quite trying to cull favor of the republicans. you should have had a backbone. YOu didn’t.
Though I’m not fond of either candidate, I come to the Lake for discussions which rise above sexist or racist comments.
Hillary’s vote for authorization was not only a lack of judgment at that time, but also a lack of foresight, a concept that may grandmother believed trumped all others for leadership. RIP Gran.
“Umm… err… don’t you have to go to a commercial, Wolf?”
HRC: If I was president, I would never have diverted my attention from Afghanistan.
Clinton had a pretty good pivot – “if I had been president, we would never had taken our focus off Afghanistan.”
C&L just posted SPECIAL COMMENTS
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
Wolf asks, Why won’t you admit AUMF vote was a mistake? It’s a gotcha question but a legitimate one.
Her answer doesn’t explain why she supported the Iraq for 3 years.
Why does POLITICO get to ask questions of the Dems tonight and no Left blogs got to ask any of the GOP last night!!!!!!!???????
Jane, you need to do some sponsoring in the near future.
Hillary uses the no one could have known answer..not good imo
Liar Hillary!
These assholes can apologize all they want, but they ultimately gave Bush the authority to attack Iraq, which was a country that didn’t even have a working military for crying out loud. They then went on and crapped on our rights by allowing Georgie & Dicky to illegally spy on Americans, they took Habeas corpus away, and they’ve been basically giving us the finger ever since!
Assholes. Oil was the reason why we went in. Period.
err typo idion=idiot
I don’t know, I think she did
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MyC7loMop58
Glad somebody gets it. Daughter shows AQHA. Zippo is an icon!
Thank you..
Obviously she had to vote for it. She’s a senator. Obama wasn’t in the senate at the time, and if he would have been he damn well would have voted for it.
whoops…. I mean we do need to move along the path of the unknown…. leap of faith and there’s something better up ahead. We know what’s down the clinton path. been there done that. Time to change that. :-)
How can we be friends when your country lives atop our water and energy resources?
Hillary putting Wolfie in his place…. good for her
Senator Clinton’s “enormous amount of investigation and due dilligence” pointedly did not include reading the NIEs that she could have and should have read.
and the hilarity has me roaring.
Exactly. I knew. Obama knew….. how could she not know. Now she’s actually defending the Iraq war…… while not really. slippery!!!
LOL !!!
((( Kirk )))
Have you seen the excerpts of Chafee’s book? He says they had nuthin’.
I just saw Diane Keaton behind chelsea