Comments on: Sex And Race: Going Prime Time, Like It Or Not http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/ Firedoglake weblog Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:54:25 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Sparkatus http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1240810 Sparkatus Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:21:44 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1240810 <p>Ok. Thanks for clarifying.</p> Ok. Thanks for clarifying.

]]> By: glennmcgahee http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1240650 glennmcgahee Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:37:32 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1240650 <p>I am extremely bothered by Senator Obama’s secular appeal. A majority of his campaign appearances take place in churches. The pulpit isn’t the only place to campaign but that is where his appeal and his style of speaking is most effective. But wouldn’t that be considered some sort of code? As a gay man, this bothers me when he has gospel singer Donnie McClurkin talking about his “ex-gay” experience. The “black churches” have not exactly been on board in our struggle against AIDS because of their bias against gays when it has been to thier own detriment.</p> I am extremely bothered by Senator Obama’s secular appeal. A majority of his campaign appearances take place in churches. The pulpit isn’t the only place to campaign but that is where his appeal and his style of speaking is most effective. But wouldn’t that be considered some sort of code? As a gay man, this bothers me when he has gospel singer Donnie McClurkin talking about his “ex-gay” experience. The “black churches” have not exactly been on board in our struggle against AIDS because of their bias against gays when it has been to thier own detriment.

]]> By: masaccio http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1240092 masaccio Thu, 31 Jan 2008 03:15:54 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1240092 <p>Good thought. I don’t disagree we need new language, but I don’t see any good ideas about what it might be. Maybe the best way is yours, ignore it and keep on plugging. </p> <p>And, maybe the notion of defenders is worth some rethinking. If I call someone out for disrespecting women or racist talk, that makes a difference in the long run. If it is done to someone’s face, say, someone disses a female colleague, then I expect the person to take the lead, and I expect to be supportive, not the leader. If the woman isn’t there, I expect myself to call out the speaker, not as a defense of the woman, but essentially attacking the speaker for stupidity. It seems to me this might have a good long-term effect.</p> Good thought. I don’t disagree we need new language, but I don’t see any good ideas about what it might be. Maybe the best way is yours, ignore it and keep on plugging.

And, maybe the notion of defenders is worth some rethinking. If I call someone out for disrespecting women or racist talk, that makes a difference in the long run. If it is done to someone’s face, say, someone disses a female colleague, then I expect the person to take the lead, and I expect to be supportive, not the leader. If the woman isn’t there, I expect myself to call out the speaker, not as a defense of the woman, but essentially attacking the speaker for stupidity. It seems to me this might have a good long-term effect.

]]> By: NoBlood4Hubris http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239836 NoBlood4Hubris Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:19:43 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239836 <p>Markos is hardly the person to take sexism seriously. Never has, most likely never will. </p> <p>And there are so many more just like him.</p> <p>Mention gender, and you’re “playing the gender card.”</p> <p>Instant trivializing. </p> <p>Just another way of saying, shut up, b*tch.</p> Markos is hardly the person to take sexism seriously. Never has, most likely never will.

And there are so many more just like him.

Mention gender, and you’re “playing the gender card.”

Instant trivializing.

Just another way of saying, shut up, b*tch.

]]> By: mush57 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239558 mush57 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:09:45 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239558 <p>Let me say at the start that I’ve been driving about for the last three years with an “i miss Clinton” bumper sticker, and if Obama wins the nomination I’ll vote for him because I know that I would be struck down if I voted for a REPUBLICAN. At the same time, I have the feeling that the Republican Party is praying for an Obama victory in the primaries. McCain may be an anathema to the conservatives, but we all know that they will vote white . I grew up when the South was Democratic because they couldn,t forgive Lincoln. But then Johnson really “freed the slaves” , Nixon ran on the situation, and the south has been Solid Republican since. i’m looking for a candidate who<br /> Unfortunately, I finf that Obama is pushing the ” If you’re not suporting me you must be a bigot” a little too much.</p> Let me say at the start that I’ve been driving about for the last three years with an “i miss Clinton” bumper sticker, and if Obama wins the nomination I’ll vote for him because I know that I would be struck down if I voted for a REPUBLICAN. At the same time, I have the feeling that the Republican Party is praying for an Obama victory in the primaries. McCain may be an anathema to the conservatives, but we all know that they will vote white . I grew up when the South was Democratic because they couldn,t forgive Lincoln. But then Johnson really “freed the slaves” , Nixon ran on the situation, and the south has been Solid Republican since. i’m looking for a candidate who
Unfortunately, I finf that Obama is pushing the ” If you’re not suporting me you must be a bigot” a little too much.

]]> By: Jane Hamsher http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239489 Jane Hamsher Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:19:26 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239489 <p>Chris Matthews has a pattern of speaking about women in a way that makes it hard to argue he does not have real problems with them.</p> <p>I think you need a better example.</p> Chris Matthews has a pattern of speaking about women in a way that makes it hard to argue he does not have real problems with them.

I think you need a better example.

]]> By: balzar http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239224 balzar Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:39:32 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239224 <p>So, as it stands now.</p> <p>Assuming that both Hillary and Obama are acceptable as president, if elected.</p> <p>If I do not care for Hillary I am sexist.<br /> If I do not care for Obama I am racist.</p> <p>Sounds like you are setting up a lose-lose situation here.</p> <p>Another example of why I am really glad I am not American.</p> So, as it stands now.

Assuming that both Hillary and Obama are acceptable as president, if elected.

If I do not care for Hillary I am sexist.
If I do not care for Obama I am racist.

Sounds like you are setting up a lose-lose situation here.

Another example of why I am really glad I am not American.

]]> By: totoro http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239203 totoro Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:30:33 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239203 <p>jane, </p> <p>i think it’s really simple, actually. if you say, for example, “what chris matthews said is sexist!” … then you should be ready for others to disagree with this rigid observation/opinion you have. others likely will hear this as rigid, and feel they need to defend their point of view as having space with yours. if you say “i feel irritated when i hear chris matthews speak about clinton, and this causes me to wonder (strongly wonder?) if he is sexist” … then you are expressing a feeling (which no sane person would argue with you about), and an opinion that has room for another point of view. perhaps you are doing all these things, and the folks you are having conversations with are emotinoally underdeveloped. i don’t know. </p> <p>i respectfully submit that you have it backwards when you write:</p> <blockquote><p>I think the first necessary act in having a more healthy conversation is to acknowledge that you don’t always know what someone else is hearing when something is said. </p></blockquote> <p>a better way for this to work is for people to take responsiblity for what they are saying (ie, a statement about feeling, a rigid statement that is an opinion only, a spacious statement that is about opinion only).</p> <p>my point is that when folks blend thee things together, the real problems emerge.</p> jane,

i think it’s really simple, actually. if you say, for example, “what chris matthews said is sexist!” … then you should be ready for others to disagree with this rigid observation/opinion you have. others likely will hear this as rigid, and feel they need to defend their point of view as having space with yours. if you say “i feel irritated when i hear chris matthews speak about clinton, and this causes me to wonder (strongly wonder?) if he is sexist” … then you are expressing a feeling (which no sane person would argue with you about), and an opinion that has room for another point of view. perhaps you are doing all these things, and the folks you are having conversations with are emotinoally underdeveloped. i don’t know.

i respectfully submit that you have it backwards when you write:

I think the first necessary act in having a more healthy conversation is to acknowledge that you don’t always know what someone else is hearing when something is said.

a better way for this to work is for people to take responsiblity for what they are saying (ie, a statement about feeling, a rigid statement that is an opinion only, a spacious statement that is about opinion only).

my point is that when folks blend thee things together, the real problems emerge.

]]> By: Crosstimbers http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239128 Crosstimbers Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:46:03 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239128 <p>Yes, in areas such as race and gender, acceptance is far better than mere tolerance. But, in terms of thought or the conflict of ideas, tolerance is the best we can get. I may accept some of your ideas or thoughts, meaning you convinced me, but it’s unlikely I would accept all. But, we really do need to tolerate each others ideas/beliefs as best we can, or all communication ceases. Most of the thoughts expressed on FDL seem to me to indicate tolerant attitudes and elicit the opinions of others. A few are so blunt and didactic that they don’t leave much room for discussion, only argument.</p> Yes, in areas such as race and gender, acceptance is far better than mere tolerance. But, in terms of thought or the conflict of ideas, tolerance is the best we can get. I may accept some of your ideas or thoughts, meaning you convinced me, but it’s unlikely I would accept all. But, we really do need to tolerate each others ideas/beliefs as best we can, or all communication ceases. Most of the thoughts expressed on FDL seem to me to indicate tolerant attitudes and elicit the opinions of others. A few are so blunt and didactic that they don’t leave much room for discussion, only argument.

]]> By: JanesAssistant http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239127 JanesAssistant Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:46:01 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/30/sex-and-race-going-prime-time-like-it-or-not/#comment-1239127 <p>very thoughtful post.</p> very thoughtful post.

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