Comments on: FISA: Heritage’s Misleading Hyperbole And The Rule Of Law http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/ Firedoglake weblog Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:47:58 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: selise http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235554 selise Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:07:30 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235554 <p>reply on next thread.</p> reply on next thread.

]]> By: cboldt http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235497 cboldt Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:43:34 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235497 <p><i>there must be some amendment(s) that the Rs are scared to death to let come up for a vote if the vote requires a simple majority to pass (vs the 60 vote majority they are trying to get).</i></p> <p>The 60 vote supermajority thing-a-ma-bob can play either against a single amendment, or a group of amendments, or the bill as a whole. It has both delay/timing elements, and pass/fail elements. The tools that force this are available to both sides, equally - that’s an important principle to keep in mind, that both sides and all senators have the same parliamentary tools.</p> <p>My intuition (flawed as it may be) is that there are 60 Senators who will agree to retroactive immunity. Figure out the crossovers in that bunch, and target them. Otherwise, the only thing going on right now is delay and drama. And count on it, those supposed fence-sitters (the ones who WILL vote for immunity, but want some bullshit cover such as first voting against it, see, e.g., space-cadet Nelson from Florida) welcome the drama because it adds confusing noise and facilitates their backroom agreement with retroactive immunity.</p> there must be some amendment(s) that the Rs are scared to death to let come up for a vote if the vote requires a simple majority to pass (vs the 60 vote majority they are trying to get).

The 60 vote supermajority thing-a-ma-bob can play either against a single amendment, or a group of amendments, or the bill as a whole. It has both delay/timing elements, and pass/fail elements. The tools that force this are available to both sides, equally – that’s an important principle to keep in mind, that both sides and all senators have the same parliamentary tools.

My intuition (flawed as it may be) is that there are 60 Senators who will agree to retroactive immunity. Figure out the crossovers in that bunch, and target them. Otherwise, the only thing going on right now is delay and drama. And count on it, those supposed fence-sitters (the ones who WILL vote for immunity, but want some bullshit cover such as first voting against it, see, e.g., space-cadet Nelson from Florida) welcome the drama because it adds confusing noise and facilitates their backroom agreement with retroactive immunity.

]]> By: rich2506 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235492 rich2506 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:39:46 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235492 <p>Y’know, for the entire time this debate has been going on, I have <strong>yet</strong> to see <strong>any</strong> Republican <em>acknowledge</em> that there is a <em>difference</em> between the way intelligence agencies gather intel and the way that law enforcement agencies do so and that those differences are hugely consequential for ordinary citizens.<br /> Sure, we can “have a debate about safety vs security,” but we’ve <em>already had that debate!!!</em> It was called the 2006 mid-term elections!! Guess how <em>that</em> turned out?!?! That’s right! The Republicans <strong>lost</strong>!!</p> Y’know, for the entire time this debate has been going on, I have yet to see any Republican acknowledge that there is a difference between the way intelligence agencies gather intel and the way that law enforcement agencies do so and that those differences are hugely consequential for ordinary citizens.
Sure, we can “have a debate about safety vs security,” but we’ve already had that debate!!! It was called the 2006 mid-term elections!! Guess how that turned out?!?! That’s right! The Republicans lost!!

]]> By: RevDeb http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235477 RevDeb Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:32:10 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235477 <p>That would be my fervent prayer. Off into the sunset.</p> <p>Tool Martinez invoking OJ for cripes sake!</p> That would be my fervent prayer. Off into the sunset.

Tool Martinez invoking OJ for cripes sake!

]]> By: Elliott http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235475 Elliott Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:31:45 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235475 <p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/dick-cheney-telecom-amnesty-bill-day-two-part-i/" rel="nofollow">Christy has a new post up</a></p> Christy has a new post up

]]> By: Bilbo http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235474 Bilbo Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:31:06 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235474 <blockquote><p>Joe Lieberpud says only John McCain(Peace Be Unto Him) can <strong>keep Israel safe</strong> from Iran.</p></blockquote> <p>My emphasis.</p> <p>I guess that must be part of their oath of office too, right on top of <em>keeping Americans safe from terrorism</em>. I’m sure it doesn’t say anything about the Constitution though.</p>

Joe Lieberpud says only John McCain(Peace Be Unto Him) can keep Israel safe from Iran.

My emphasis.

I guess that must be part of their oath of office too, right on top of keeping Americans safe from terrorism. I’m sure it doesn’t say anything about the Constitution though.

]]> By: klynn http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235469 klynn Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:30:14 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235469 <p>I want to hear debate about retroactive telecom immunity on the floor. So if it IS so important, why not let the Repugs explain on the Senate floor “why its vital to our national security” and then let the Dems respond.</p> <p>Why not? Because they know they will lose the debate.</p> <p>I agree 82 - Let Pres veto…</p> I want to hear debate about retroactive telecom immunity on the floor. So if it IS so important, why not let the Repugs explain on the Senate floor “why its vital to our national security” and then let the Dems respond.

Why not? Because they know they will lose the debate.

I agree 82 – Let Pres veto…

]]> By: cboldt http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235468 cboldt Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:30:02 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235468 <p><i>The Senate did NOT reject the judiciary’s bill. They tabled it …</i></p> <p>Under Senate rules relating to legislative business, the two (vote to table vs. not obtaining a majority to pass) are exactly the same. A tabled matter is supposed to be killed, as in not to brought forth under the same bill for reconsideration, e.g., as in under a different amendment.</p> The Senate did NOT reject the judiciary’s bill. They tabled it …

Under Senate rules relating to legislative business, the two (vote to table vs. not obtaining a majority to pass) are exactly the same. A tabled matter is supposed to be killed, as in not to brought forth under the same bill for reconsideration, e.g., as in under a different amendment.

]]> By: nomolos http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235465 nomolos Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:28:26 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235465 <p>Can we be so lucky as to have this damn bill go off into the sunset, never to be seen again? Will reid and mrChao let this bill die?</p> Can we be so lucky as to have this damn bill go off into the sunset, never to be seen again? Will reid and mrChao let this bill die?

]]> By: sadlyyes http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235464 sadlyyes Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:28:05 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/29/fisa-heritages-misleading-hyperbole-and-the-rule-of-law/#comment-1235464 <p>yes</p> yes

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