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More debate today on the Dick Cheney Telecom Amnesty Bill. But first, another national security official questions the Bush Administration's unilateral power grabs:
Jeffrey H. Smith, former CIA general counsel (“On Hill, Anger and Calls for Hearing Greet News of Stateside Surveillance,” Washington Post, 1/17/06)
“These programs always have a way of being abused, of expanding beyond the purpose for which they were created. If the president believed it, he could have gotten authority to do it in the Patriot Act. By avoiding that course, in so doing, he may ultimately wind up eroding the very power he seeks to assert.”
Now, on to proceedings.
___________________
SANDERS: During the SOTU, I had a hard time understanding what country and what reality the President was talking about -- the President had almost nothing to say about the reality of most American lives that rang true. Last night's speech showed how little understanding the President and his Administration have of the everyday lives. Somehow, the President failed to detail the impact of his many failures on the American people. Going through the list: nearly 5 million Americans have slipped out of the middle class and into poverty. Since Bush has been president, we have lost one out of every four manufacturing jobs -- 25% of manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas, and Bush is demanding more outsourcing. More Americans are paying more for gas, and oil companies are enjoying huge profits -- didn't hear a word about that from the president. Talking about enormous CEO compensation packages.
Morning business being extended now to 12:30 pm ET, with time equally divided.
CRAIG: Talking about Inhofe's S.2551, nuclear waste legislation. [CHS notes: word of the day, again reverts to somnolent...] Craig going on a "screw Nevada, force them to take Idaho's nuclear waste" blah-bity-blah.
Tim Tigaris has an update at OpenLeft -- thought everyone would want a peek before Larry Craig's wide stance on Yucca Mountain puts all of us in a coma:
I suspect the Senate will pass an extension of some sort. Maybe 15 days. In regards to amendments, I am hearing that some kind of "compromise" in which a certain number of amendments will be heard -- some that need to meet a 50 vote threshold, and some that meet a 60 vote threshold -- is possible.
At that point, the important question becomes which amendments will need 50, and which will need 60? If we agree to a 60-vote threshold on amendments that would "force" a Presidential veto, then we are horrible negotiators. Because of the sensitivity to retroactive immunity, I see no way that isn't one of the amendments included in the agreement. And since that probably doesn't even have 50 votes, I am sure it won't be required to meet the 60 vote barrier.
And if an agreement is reached that germane amendments with a chance of succeeding needs 60 votes to pass, what can a courageous Senator do to stop that? Well, much like Dodd did before the Christmas recess, a Senator could object to an unanimous consent request on any deal that capitulates on the 60 vote question.
So, there you have it -- the latest as I'm hearing it as well at the moment. But, again, nothing definite...
Quorum call...
GREGG: Talking stimulus package. OMG, they are trying to lull the nation into a long snooze...when will this torture end? I'm gonna need more coffee if they keep this up...he's rambling about iPods made in Vietnam now.
Senate stands in recess until 2:15 pm ET.
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Hi Christy!
Good Morning Mrs. Hardin Smith.
Go Bernie!
Bernie: Angry and Snarky. You gotta love it.
Good Morning Christy and all,
When these clowns in power talk about people ,it only refers to the haves and has mores, basically the top one percent.
Could one of the Dem presidential candidates borrow the script from Bernie’s speech? This needs to be on every media outlet. Today.
Bernie is awesome. If only we had more like him.
I like that Bernie!
He should have offered a rebuttal to the STFU last night. He is a better Dem than any of the Dems are (except, of course, for Dodd, Feingold, and Kennedy).
At last, the delayed rebuttal. Thank you Senator Sanders.
Bernie Saunders is the best Senator we have and a true progressive. We could use about 60 of him in the senate.
Bernie: Angry and Snarky. You gotta love it.
Dear Senator Lieberman:
This is what a true Independent Senator looks and sounds like.
Rock on, Bernie! - the guy is smokin’ this morning…
Good morning Christy and all good firepups…. Bernie telling the truth about what is by any other name class warfare… the wealth of this country has never been held by so few at the top of the economic ladder… This must stop.. We the people need to let the rich their days of rape and pillaging of the US economy is coming to an end and they will get their just due
He’s hitting ALL the facts. Fantastic.
Wow. Vermont is proud today.
Bernie was great. Who picks these so-called “responders”. They are unanimously lame.
Can’t wait for this be up on Youtube
another extension of morning business!
ITS WIDE STANCE….Oh boy
It’s liesure suit larry!
The best person to offer a rebuttal would be Don Rickles. Give him good material and he’s hysterical.
Boxturtle (Bush doesn’t take reality seriously, why should we?)
Whoa! Wide-Stance Larry
vermont has the best leaders !
Larry Craig up.
Oh good…
I’m sure that Senator Imhofe is *really* glad to have Larry’s support…
Bernie’s an Independent
Thank you Senator Sanders! Good Morning Christy and all firepups!
Morning business until 4:30 p.m. Hot in the backroom. All the options are on the table. The more the GOP overreaches and overplays objection to a short extension of PAA, the more it entrenches opposition to a long extension and divorcing immunity (Title II) from snooping updating (either PAA or Title I)
Larry Craig (R - Super Tuber)
Not quite — Webb did quite well last year.
How come the rest of the states can’t vote in a Bernie Sanders? Is Vermont just smarter? Apparently so. I can’t say as much for California and never mind Nevada. See Harry Reid, this is leadership and truthtelling.
What that Senate needs is more Independant Liberals like Bernie Sanders.
The contrast with Sen “wide stance” Craig as the Republican is perfect.
We do! I love it here for the politics alone. Just called Sanders with kudos.
he more it entrenches opposition to a long extension and divorcing immunity (Title II) from snooping updating (either PAA or Title I)
The sense of that should be reversed, the more the GOP overplays, the more determined the opposition becomes to GETTING a long extension and/or divorcing immunity from snooping
They’re so good, as I look for a place to move, Vermont is in my top 3.
Senator Craig:
Fuck Yucca Mountain. My state has some nuclear businesses, and we need a place to dump our waste…
Is that whats coming out of his ears??
Gawd Craig can’t remeber the name of the national lab in Idaho. He loves himself some Yucca Mountain. What a wide stance turkey!
Guessing that Obama picked her. They seem to sing similar tunes.
Idaho, the state of “wide stances”.
Can’t put my finger on the dynamic here, because Bernie doesn’t just get support from the Birkenstock crowd, plenty of old timers, with conservative bent strongly support him. HE’s always been outspoken against big money interests and that really resonates here.
And Vermont gave us Ben & Jerry!
I repeat what I said yesterday on this “brief extension” nonsense. It is nothing but sheer political posturing that brings us down to the level of the Repuglicans AND weakens our case at the same time. Take a stand for the proper principles and stand behind it as opposed to injecting harmful BS for the sake of sole ske of cornering your opponent; which is a fine and appropriate tactic if it doesn’t undercut your core principle in the process. Here, it will weaken the core principle and argument in it’s favor and should NOT be considered; especially since it is not necessary “to protect us” in the least and blindly saying it is so necessary is ridiculous.
NO EXTENSION! There is no need whatsoever for an extension, because A) The Administration can order any comprehensive program, or programs, they want prior to the lapse of the PAA and that program(s) will stay in effect for one full year “to protect us”; and B) the original FISA law is reinstated. Furthermore, passage of any extension is a wolf in sheep’s clothing because is equitably removes and/or weakens many arguments and defenses that opponents, like us, to the PAA had from it’s original passage in August 2007. At the time of the original passage of the PAA, most congressmembers voted based upon false and misleading facts provided by the Administration, McConnell and Hayden; voted under a false fear that the country was in jeopardy of an imminent major attack (another direct lie), were not aware of the secret memos produced by OLC behind the Administration program that were legally indefensible, etc. If we now vote to extend the PAA, we not only effectively remove and/or undercut all those germane defenses/explanations, we also give credence to the position that there is some merit and legality to the PAA. There is absolutely no need for an extension and passing one weakens our side’s position. THERE MUST BE NO EXTENSION.
Prior to his election to the House and then Senate, Bernie was the Socialist mayor of Burlington. And IIRC, Vermont, as a state, has been referred to (dismissively by the Rs) as the “People’s Republic of Vermont.”
So not sure if they can be said to be smarter per se, but definitely more independent and willing to go outside the morms.
BLa Bla Bla .. is he ever going to say anything pertinent To the issues at hand Bla bla bla bla… shit what is with this f***er
Go Bernie,
I am still calling, have sent chain mail to all friends with all the phone numbers have called senators before I even finished my first cup of joe this morning and am happy to be among people who care no matter the outcome. I served my country and was proud to stand and salute our flag and I no longer feel that way and it makes me very sad which is why I fight these people.
FYI to all Bernie Sanders lovers- he always spends the first hour on the Thom Hartmann show on Fridays taking calls. You can stream it through Air America or Seattle’s KPTK or L.A.’s KTLK. The show starts at noon ET, 9 am PT.
I had to turn off the streaming of Craig, too whacko.
True, Webb did better than most, so let’s just say “for the most part lame”. They’ve just been so cowed for the past 15 years that they’ve developed a kind of battered wife syndrome and just find it impossible to stand up to their abusers
Can we send Larry to the deep geologic repository?
Our State has what I believe is the largest operating nuclear plant in the country, Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station. Bet they’ve got some waste that needs disposal.
Hear! Hear! Stand on principles! There must be No Extension!
Just called and thanked Bernie Sanders for his excellent rebuttal.
Yucca Mountain! Them’s fightin words! Forget Yucca Mountain. I know of a better place to dump nukyoular waste - a rance in Texas.
Obama gets to pick the Democratic responder to SOTU?
Shorter Craig:
We need a wider stance on Atomic Energy.
also:
Quit Stalling!
My nasty mind took off on that one, thanks for the very good laugh it induced, I needed that.
The overall result is what’s important to me: No immunity for telecos!
60 more Bernies??? Absolutely great idea!! I’d certainly like someone like him to replace BOTH of my state’s Senators!
Why Obama gets to pick the Democratic responder? His choice reflects badly on his ability to select the best and the brightest around him as advisors. Really bad news.
Bernie is a declared socialist, last I heard. I love most of the positions he takes, but I am still a capitalist at heart, I think. I’m not so much against corporations or the rich (I, myself, wouldn’t mind being rich, so I don’t find that in and of itself to be a character flaw) as I am against them taking unfair advantage over people/consumers/customers/fellow citizens. My feeling is that government is there precisely to oversee that that doesn’t happen.
Senator Craig winds up: “Mr President, I yield the floor, and note the absence of a quorum. If anybody needs me, I’ll be in the… umm, never mind.”
I believe Senators who are so eager to promote nuclear energy ought to volunteer their own backyards (yes, their ACTUAL back yards) as repositories for nuclear waste disposal. Willing to put their money where their mouths are? Doubtful.
Yep. Who would Hillary have chosen? Hers probably wouldn’t have been better. Edwards on the other hand. . .
I doubt seriously that Obama requested her? Maybe Dean.
Would it be named Crawford… I like that idea and make sure all the little bushies get sequestered there!
If you value that ultimate result, then you ought to think twice about a meaningless stunt that undercuts it. That is precisely my point.
as I said last night, Howard Dean should personally have done the Democratic rebuttal…
We agree, actually. Sometimes–often–I’m not very concise in my writing.
The opposition Leaders in both houses (one house if the other’s in the President’s party’s hands) choose the Responder. That would be Reid and Pelosi (or Hoyer) who chose Webb and Sebelius.
Ann in AZ - What kind of capitalism are you referring to? What is the premise on which capitalism is based that you support?
Ot for all you Bay area firepups:
I want you to be among the first to know that Senator John Edwards will be in northern California this Friday, February 1 for a special event in San Jose at 9:45 a.m.
The event will be free and open to the public — I hope you, your family and friends will join us. John is coming to northern California because we understand how important a strong showing in California on February 5 will be as we head to the Democratic Convention and the nomination.
Here are the details of the community meeting:
What: Special Event with John Edwards
When: Friday, February 1, 9:45 a.m.
Where: San Jose State University
The Barret Ballroom
One Washington Square
San Jose, California
If you can attend, please take a moment to RSVP here:
www.johnedwards.com/sanjose
I agree. There’s no such thing as non-predatory capitalism. It will always screw over, take advantage, etc. Government exists to check that behavior.
i figured she is on the short list of VP maybes.
Well, much like Dodd did before the Christmas recess, a Senator could object to an unanimous consent request on any deal that capitulates on the 60 vote question.
Play that through to the end, and there is still a 60 vote hurdle in the form of GOP objection to anti-immunity amendments, and a cloture motion to surmount the objection.
I think the objection/cloture method works in favor of the anti-immunity faction. IOW, there is merit to objecting to the usual expediency of agreeing up front to 60 vote margins. It’s early in the 2nd session, and there appears to be a willingness to extend the snooping provisions of PAA as needed to accommodate the time required to go through the legislative process, faced with determined objection.
Well, there you have it.
Add me to the list. Without government to legislate capitalism, corporations grown and individuals are left in poverty.
not saying he did, but peas in a pod?
I doubt seriously Obama has anything to say about it! Nor do I think Clinton has anything to say about it, but I don’t have a clue who choses. Guess I’ll have to look it up now that y’all have me curious.
That wouldn’t happen in an election year…jus’ sayin’
Gregg just slipped and called Mitch the Majority Leader. Yep, that’s how too many people see it.
Ah, isn’t that just the sweetest. He’s trying to get back into our good graces.
I wonder if he has a problem with Harry Reid?
Yeah, but it’s one of those names we kinda like here. Sanders was elected as socialist mayor in late 70’s - and shortly thereafter I remember that France elected a socialist prez - who was that? - and the saying around VT was “AS goes Burlington, So goes France”.
And Ann in AZ, he was strongly backed by progressive and democratic parties. Switched to self described Independent for his House run, I believe.
My bad then; sorry about that. I have been trying to explain this to Congresscritters and am a little testy about them being too dense to understand either point, that it is unnecessary and potentially harmful.
calculated slip, for sure
Aha, I’ve finally figured out how the links work now.
contact Barack Obama
I could not find any sort of contact link for Clinton.
Here is what I sent:
Senator Obama,
So far, I am uncommitted. To support you, I need to see you offer leadership now in the efforts to stop the Bush Administration from destroying the Constitution.
Promises about a year from now seem hollow if you aren’t leading the Democrats in protecting us today. Making statements afterwards and showing up at the last minute don’t show leadership.
Use your power in the Senate now, and you will be my president next year.
That wouldn’t happen in an election year…jus’ sayin’
I’m not gonna argue with that (since it’s true I believe), but I would prefer an effective rebuttal to the tossing of a few political bones…
Just logging in to catch up (lunchtime). Anyone want to give me a summary? Are Hillary and Obama still there? And fwiw, I agree w/ bmaz. Why extend an awful bill?
Yeah, I agree that he would’ve been good. Geez, I still like and respect that guy. Maybe the next president will have the good sense to have him in the cabinet, or maybe even to chose him as a running mate!
Teddy has some info upthread as to how the responder is selected. Where did you get that info, Teddy?
If the house goes into recess No F I S A
Right?
Then poor bush ,will need a warrant .after 72hours
Seems to me time has run out,
I recall Pelosi and Reid preening at their well-received selection of Webb last year, and presumed that was the process. (Inside of my head, in other words….)
If we now vote to extend the PAA, we not only effectively remove and/or undercut all those germane defenses/explanations, we also give credence to the position that there is some merit and legality to the PAA.
Just thinking out loud, but expressing the reservations that you did (false pretenses for passing PAA in the first place) would go a long way toward neutralizing an argument that an extension is equivalent to endorsement or agreement.
The political downside to insisting on reversion to FISA as it stood in July 2007 is clear to the players. I’m not sure they’re able to take that pressure or spin it in the opposite direction.
Last nite was
a HUGE waste of an opportunity
DEms= squandered opportunities
And a “heartland” governor from a red state trending blue was probably picked because of dealings with the BushCo DC and the state of the economy.
FISA and such were probably not on their radar screens at the time.
Another Aha. Found the Clinton link.
Sent her the same message.
Government cannot do a thing about capitalism if it is deregulated capitalism (Laissez-faire). Trade and business, on the other hand, has been here since the beginning of time. That is not capitalism. It predates capitalism.
Just wondering if Reid, Pelosi (Hoyer) wanted it that way??? Just wondering . . . .
I concur. These are precarious times. Past pleasantries are not considered.
Where are we watching?
I guess we won’t have rudy to laugh at anymore;
LOL! If Ann in AZ comes up with anything better I hope she shares. :)
CSPAN 2
I prefer Napolitano to Sebilius as VP.
If the house goes into recess No F I S A
Assuming the House passes a 30 day extension, the options when they recess are “take it or leave it.”
think about it
when is the next HUGE RECESSION we can bop OVER the pukes head on free tv?
Wrong. FISA does not expire. It never will expire. The horrible “Protect America Act” will expire Friday.
I read that somewhere on the toobz this morning and it warmed the cockles of my heart, but I will believe it when I see it.
Me too. She is campainging with Obama in AZ today or tomorrow, IIRC.
Dodds phone calling web site seems to be working…http://chrisdodd.com/filibuster/call
Bernie Sanders is a good man, but Vermont allows him to be the Senator he is. If a hundred clones ran for the Senate, we would probably still only have one Sanders in the Senate. So, we can’t blame all of the other Democratic Senators for not being Bernie Sanders. If they were, they wouldn’t be in the Senate. On the other hand, Gov. Sibelius wasn’t that impressive a speaker last night. However, to have a Democratic governor from Kansas was amazing. If she were a real fire eater, she wouldn’t be there long.
C-Span2 has Senate coverage, as per usual — both on tv and online.
praise jeeebus,and bernie kerick and while were at it Judith Reagan
Dodd’s calling web site seems to be still working: http://chrisdodd.com/filibuster/call
Which would be the best of all possible worlds.