More debate today on the Dick Cheney Telecom Amnesty Bill. While we are waiting for debate to get started, let me highlight a bald-faced lie from the head of the RNC, and the steno-journalism coverage that it is unquestioningly given. Via the Chicago Tribune:
Within minutes of today's action on the Senate floor, the Republican National Committee criticized Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama (both making cameo appearences in the chamber) for voting against cutting off debate on the bill and thus delaying its passage.
"If Sens. Obama and Clinton were serious about national security they would realize that while our ability to monitor terrorist communication expires in a matter of days, the terrorist threat against our families will not,” said Mike Duncan, the RNC chairman.
Utterly false. Our ability to monitor terrorists does not expire -- that is a lie, a deliberate misreading of the law, and a smear -- and James Oliphant prints it unquestioningly without critique or fact-checking. Journamalism, alive and kicking. And shameful.
__________________
Senate gavelling into session — prayer, Pledge of Allegience, Tester presiding at the start of the day today.
Reid says morning business for one hour, leader statements, then some negotiations as to what will happen after that morning business period expires…
Reid going on about the PAA expiring unless they do something today to get an extension.
McConnell now whining about it having been 6 months since they started working on the PAA extension. (Perhaps he should have thought of that before he became Mr. Obstruction yet again.) McConnell is in full petulant mode this morning. I’m hearing there is no agreement on how to proceed as yet, so you all will get news as I get it.
Reid saying the big hitch in this is retroactive immunity — serious concerns about this from a number of Senators. Why not have a public debate on the issues involved? Why GOP stifling debate? Why not extend the debate so that we can talk about the issues involved on this?
Durbin interrupts on the votes on this. Goes through the cloture motion on SJC bill, then the McConnell cloture vote. Durbin says they need to put their heads together and work this out — extending the law so that there is no damage to the country is reasonable. Why don’t the Republicans and the President want to protect our country? Why do they keep refusing if they say this is in the best interests of our nation?
Reid says they could see the train wreck coming, but the GOP refuses to cooperate on real debate.
Reid: If anyone thinks we are going to come to an immediate agreement on all these amendments, it’s just not going to happen.
DORGAN: This is a complicated and important issue, and it takes two sides to compromise. Says McConnell saying they are ready to move forward and tired of delays — the delay has occurred because the GOP has blocked the ability to offer amendments and have real debate. It’s on their heads — the reason for the delay is that the GOP insists on blocking debate.
Colloquy now going back and forth between Reid and McConnell -- McConnell saying they've offered things to the Dems, and Reid is saying yes, you've offered half-assed, Cheney CYA offers wherein anything substantive would require 60 votes instead of a simple majority and we aren't going to dance that dance with you. You want 60 votes, you can filibuster. [CHS notes: paraphrasing there.]
[CHS notes: I'm hearing that McConnell has been floating a 15 day extension that the WH might agree to behind-the-scenes.]
Reid says -- if the law is so good as is, why don't we just extend the law? It is legislatively impossible to pass this law today and, without an extension, the law will expire. If the GOP is so adament that this remain in effect, then an extension is required for it to continue -- if we get no extension, then we move on to something else. It's unfortunate, but if the law esxpires, then Democrats have no blame on this.
McConnell says that we will be staying on this bill, and not leaving it. [CHS notes: Dear Mitch, you are no longer majority leader, so you don't control the floor calendar.]
Reid says both Intel and Judiciary had concurrent jurisdiction -- we don't just pick and choose what the President wants, Judiciary membership is entitled to be heard on their concerns, and the minority leader doesn't get to dictate what he wants to hear on that -- they have a right to be heard.
MARTINEZ: "The American people are pretty tired of the blame game." [CHS notes: oh lordy, it's cliches r us.]
***By the way, continued calls and FAXes to Senators and House members emphasizing that standing up for the rule of law, against telecom immunity, against basket warrants and inadequate minimization procedures, etc., would be much appreciated. Phone numbers, contact links and other information here.***
ALEXANDER: Last night, the President gave the SOTU. Golly, it was swell. We have work to do at home...and gosh, we should do it. blah blah blah economic incentives package ought to be passed blah blah blah election season blah blah blah worried about how the GOP looks now that the economy is tanking (paraphrasing here) and American people are tired of playpen politics on the Senate floor (exact quote there) blah blah blah [CHS notes: I'd like to dedicate this Allman Brothers tune to Lamar and the rest of the GOP ramblers this morning.]
CORNYN: Will now spend the next few minutes whining about the "culture of Washington, D.C." One wonders if he whined about this to Jack Abramoff and Ralph Reed when he helped them in their bilk the various tribes scheme in Texas when he was AG? How's that investigation coming, Alice? Cornyn going on and on endlessly misrepresenting the law -- saying that our intel officials will be literally blind and deaf to intelligence if the PAA lapses. Well, no, they won't, but the facts don't really matter so long as Dick Cheney's behind gets covered by telecom immunity, right, John? More cliches r us. And then on to the economy and gosh, isn't Sen. Alexander swell?
DORGAN: Well, this is fascinating to see the GOP block access to progress being made in the Senate, and then come back and whine about progress not being made. Cooperation takes two parties, and it is long past time for us to do this.
Bond interrupts: Do you agree that the intel bills have to pass with 60 votes. The PAA passed with 60 votes. Doesn't it make sense to have 60 votes to pass all amendments?
DORGAN: That's nonsense and it makes no sense. Just because you don't like regular order, doesn't mean that you get to rig the rules. You can filibuster if you want 60 votes, but it doesn't just get handed to you, thank you very much. [CHS notes: Yay, Dorgan!] Talking about economy a bit now. Makes point that senior citizens living on fixed incomes are some of the folks who need help at the moment most.
Makes point that we'll be spending over $700 billion dollars for Iraq and Afghanistan shortly, based on Bush requests for more money. Isn't it time we started taking care of our citizens at home? We are charging this war on the backs of future generations. That is not fiscally responsible. How about taking care of things here at home that have been too long neglected? We need to have a longer view of investing in this country.
DODD: Talking about banking bills, the economic stimulus package and such -- we have been able to bring both Chamber of Commerce and organized labor together around this bill. Makes point that the Bush Administration is wholly out of touch with the needs and lives of regular Americans -- and that their neglect is making things worse. We need immediate relief for those who need help the most. Going over specifics on reforms which need to be made according to Banking committee negotiations on this. Addressing need for infrastructure support, and potential for grave consequences if we do not take action soon from too much neglect to these issues.
Extending morning business for an additional 30 minutes.
ISAKSON: Talking about a trip he recently took to Iraq. And how swell things are going. [CHS says: Word of the day for Sen. Isakson -- somnolent.]
Am going to start a fresh thread shortly...
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zed
oh my
Well done CHS… don’t know how you do it
(Epu)Can we be so lucky as to have this damn bill go off into the sunset, never to be seen again? Will reid and mrChao let this bill die?
Bite me Mel. I can’t wait to vote against you again next time you are up.
Now that is one scary picture. It’s what nightmares are made of.
thanks again for holding ther feet to the fire
Hey Mel Martinez, it sounds like US troops are tired of your war games.
“President Bush should be out here watching this ramp ceremony to see what it is really like,” said one soldier, who asked not to be identified.
US troops critical of war.
-G
Alexander licking Bush’s butt now. Sad.
If Sens. Obama and Clinton were serious about national security they would realize that while our ability to monitor terrorist communication expires in a matter of days, the terrorist threat against our families will not,” said Mike Duncan, the RNC chairman.
————–
it is no wonder DEms are so skeerd…the press,and media are spewing lies 24/7 CALL THEM OUT on it every time..everytime….PAID LIARS
Here we go again…
Not only that, but he invokes . . . . are you ready??? OJ!
Lordy!
oopsie ..HIGHLY excessively paid liars
Fisa 1978
If a United States person is involved, judicial authorization was required within 72 hours after surveillance begins………………
We are safe! still
Only ones not safe is ATT
EPU’d: I thought Lamar Alexander always wore plaid.
Going up to read.
Lamar, if you want to stimulate the economy, let’s stop spending $15 billion a month on an illegal occupation.
speaking of which…..who is the HIGHEST paid poodle of all time??? will reap 80$ Mill…….yes he is British and a fundy
once again..the system worked…they had the proper intel….they IGNORED it
Re: [CHS notes: Dear Mitch, you are no longer majority leader, so you don’t control the floor calendar.]
Yeah. Well, he sure acts like he still runs the Senate, and funny thing, Harry Reid acts like McConnell’s running the Senate most of the time, too.
Why is Harry pleading with him?
so did KIT the turkey …the other day…funny dat
ATT and big Darth
Harry really wants his lunch money back.
“The American people are pretty tired of the blame game.”
Yeah yeah yeah.
Cuba - Si, Castro - No.
What a freakin Edsel.
OMG this is hilarious.
WTF is Lamar talking about? I didn’t know Pell grants fell under FISA. This is getting weirder. “When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.”
You can bet that if the R’s get their “Pell Grants for Kids” that they will privatize it and make it as abusive as the current crop of college loan scams. Disgusting.
$500 for or or or or other programs
I believe Sen. Reid has Stockholm Syndrome.
Right now it is free-for-all time on the floor. They can yammer about any nonsense for now.
Mitch McConnell, the flaccid firebrand of freedom.
-G
Christy I adore your paraphrasing. I’m cracking the ______ up!
Lady McConnell has her undies in a bunch, does she?
Just where did he put the Cornyn?
He does. He has the tone of an abused spouse, pleading for everyone to just get along.
Cornyn. . .can Saxby be far behind?
or, middle-child syndrome
Didn’t you once call him Sexless Chambly?
I’m hearing that McConnell has been floating a 15 day extension that the WH might agree to behind-the-scenes.
Given the tight time frame, Dodd can torpedo that if he wants, and force at least the 30 day bill that the House is going to pass.
Put it anothrt way read New York Tmes editorial on the 7 years of BUSHCO
Put another way ask the 10 million homeless…47 million without medical
Ask the Iraqis IMPEACHment today how much neocon shit can you eat?
[Edited by mod. In the comments at FDL, please do not suggest acts of violence towards others. Thank you.]
Reid: recall the very young Kevin Bacon in Animal House during the chaos of the parade. “All is well! All is well!” THAT’S Reid.
Hey! That puts Reid within only ONE degree of Kevin Bacon!
He’s soooo oily
or sees it so much EASIER ,to go along to get along
McConnell is a floater alright.
-G
Senator Cornhole is a WORM. If he wants to pass a bill to spy on foreign terra-ists plotting to kill our babies, then that is easy. He should have NO problem with a bill that allows any such spying WITHOUT spying on American citizens.
Matt Browner-Hamlin has Dodd’s response to the SOTU:
http://holdfastblog.com/2008/0.....-response/
911111111111111
Blind and deaf, well they are dumb already.
Mean Jean Schmidt was born or raised in Loveland, Ohio. I thought that was funny.
ugggggggggggggh and perpetual smiler Tom Daschle….wonder if he smiled when he got the anthrax……sheeesh…testosterone injections all around
My intuition (flawed as it may be) is that there are 60 Senators who will agree to retroactive immunity. Figure out the crossovers in that bunch, and target them. Otherwise, the only thing going on right now is delay and drama. And count on it, those supposed fence-sitters (the ones who WILL vote for immunity, but want some bullshit cover such as first voting against it, see, e.g., space-cadet Nelson from Florida) welcome the drama because it adds confusing noise and facilitates their backroom agreement with retroactive immunity.
Oh hey - Cornyn is telling us what the definition of insanity is!!! He should know.
“Democrat Speaker of the House and Republican Leader”
Cornyn, just STFU!
yea funny…Bin Ladden DETERMINED to strike in America…chimps reply….yah,yah…”you covered your ass” harumph!
LOOK WHO’S TALKING CORNHOLE! Sheesh. Increase the size of government and pass the bill on to our grandkids?! That is what the GOP does! Grows government by passing the debt down to children. Of course, they are working on THAT problem by trying to ensure that the earth will not support our children (environmentally) so that there is no problem. No children around to inherit the debt!
Forgive me if this has already been noted, but last night on KO, David Gregory repeated the lie that FISA was about to expire and KO didn’t know enough to correct him. Someone should get to Keith and have him air another correction. He’s one of the few, no make that the only one, who is willing to do that.
Ahh, Dorgan calling them on the BS.
oh this is VERY important,cause imo KO aint a liar
The “cooperation” argument is BS. Income tax is voluntary, and so is compliance with surveillance law. Plus, the telecoms are predisposed to snoop on account of the filthy lucre associated with it.
Hold on a sec…income tax is voluntary? You mean I’ve been paying that bastard all these years and I didn’t need to?
Hell’s bells. NOW I learn about it.
Sure, you just go to the joint if you don’t. I used to get voulteered for stuff all the time!
THEIR kids,are all covered very nicely……..its the 299 million others not so much
Dorgan would have been a very good response to SOTU.
Just once. JUST ONCE I want a Dem Senator to NOT call the assclown “across the aisle” his/her “friend”. How about not addressing with any respectful or friendly terms AT ALL. That doesn’t mean you use insulting or demeaning terms, you simply leave them out entirely. You refer to Senator Cornhole as “Senator Cornhole claims…” instead of “My good friend, Senator Cornhole, right there across the aisle there, my esteemed colleague, my bestest golf buddy…”
Sheesh. It is disgusting and annoying as hell.
Wonder if the Chicago Tribune’s parent company isn’t also an ISP provider.
Are you guys watching this on the teevee? or online?
yea like when opposing counsel are terh cordial…BE AN ADVOCATE for those who brung you
Is there a way to email Reid in his capacity as majority leader that doesn’t require a local address?
Online for me.
CSPAN 2 is available both on cable and streaming on the CSPAN.org web site.
pace yourself,this will be a long fight,and we loves ya!
agreed.
was suspecting that one of the other amendments might be seen as a poison pill - one that might pass with a simple majority but not if a 60 vote threshold is imposed.
Yeah, it is better than reality TV
what terrorists? where are these scary phantoms? Oh yea, in their own country, trying to get us out.
sounds like us in 1775 when the british tossed up the shit and the breeze caught it. We are terrorists. They have the same opinion of us as we of them. Do we get it yet?
Thanks Praedor and Jim! Guess I should open another window.
Agreed.
Would those fence sitters be the list Christy posted yesterday or is there a more focused list?
Let’s get the list up and start calling/faxing like crazy folks.
its the new democracy,freedom from freedom
Keep in mind that even if there is some behind-the-scenes agreement, Dodd, Feingold or any Senator could object to unanimous consent agreement at any time like they have done in the past. And that’s being held up to the GOP, I understand…
Is there a way to email Reid in his capacity as majority leader that doesn’t require a local address?
the closest thing to that would be the DSCC, info@dscc.org
Some of us don’t have senators.
I KNOW Feinstein is one of the fence-sitters. Let’s say her desire to pass the question of immunity to the FISA court fails (hope so)…will she then support NO immunity or will she cave and go for full immunity? What’s her priority list on this? I think I know (her amendment or full immunity) but perhaps we can FORCE NO immunity to the top of her list.
Somebody needs to tell Wesley Snipes’ attorney that income tax is voluntary.
so nice to see what one or two senators can do if their party isn’t actively trying to undermind them (or even if it is).
go dodd! go feingold!
DORGAN finally gettin to the NITTY GRITTY
Go Dorgan. Talking about the money wasted in Iraq with our own infrastructure in the toilet.
Is he on anybody’s VP list?
spend our tax dollars(weakened as they are) HERE
do tell…
we loves us our Dorgan in ND
Don’t we just have to turn two DINOs in order to prevent 60 votes to override Dodd?
DODD!!! gets the baton
Would those fence sitters be the list Christy posted yesterday or is there a more focused list?
I’d EXCLUDE from the list, the DEMs who voted NAY to take up S.2248 back in December. From what’s left over, those who voted AYE to table the Leahy amendment represent the senators most likely to be in favor of retroactive immunity.
I’d bet there are others though, who are more stealthy about their ultimate intentions.
I know what you mean. I have two leeches on the backside of humanity here in NH but I emailed them both yet again. Its like pissi** to the wind.
Dodd up!!
Go Chris GO!!!
to show you how naieve i was… i thought the $$$$$$$$ was why Americans would NEVER agree to a war in Iraq…boy America has changed
SOTU
I’m not able to watch at the moment. Are Sens. Obama and Clinton present today, or did they take off again?
Keep Mikulski on the contact list. She was clapping with abandon regarding immunity during the SOTU last night — only Dem doing so. SIGH
was it about two years ago that feingold submitted his censure resolution on bush for breaking the fisa law?
i remember the roots project work (jane/christy/glenn/john) then to visit our senator’s offices to ask for support for that censure resolution.
any action that goes our way this winter is not the result of a few days phone calls. it’s been an extended effort over years… but that’s what it takes, and we’re just now starting to see very small changes. a long way to go - but at least progress is being made - and that is a great thing! very exciting to me that we can affect our gov. even in the slightest little bit. very cool.
I believe we were told that it would cost $1.7 billion. We’d only be there a short time, and besides, the oil revenue would pay for it. Honest.
Same here in GA. We have Saxby Chambliss (I am TRULY sorry and apologize on the part of all Georgians) and his shadow Isakson. What a waste of good leather in their chairs.
Dodd, Feingold or any Senator could object to unanimous consent agreement at any time like they have done in the past. And that’s being held up to the GOP, I understand…
Dodd and Feingold’s ability to object also needs to be held up to the DEM side, in order to cause those two senators to adhere to their stated intention to block retroactive immunity by all means available. IMO, they are as likely to back off as any of the others, given enough counter-pressure.
The ultimate key really does lie in 60 vote supermajority. Once that exists, objection dissolves from an effective into a token from.
DODD ,talking about how EXTREMELY outof touch CHIMP andCo is
Dodd - the elephant in the room at SOTU - the desperate shape of economy
that’s one of the most frustrating and difficult things - trying to see behind the kabuki so we can hold our congress critters accountable.
We need to put pressure on Claire McCaskill. She is supporting the Specter compromise amendment (substitute the federal government for the telcos as defendant in the lawsuits).
I don’t know about the rest of you - but I feel that is a false compromise. The telcos need to feel some hurt on this one so that they will follow the law in the future.
Since McCaskill is co-chair of the Obama campaign, it may help to have Obama pressure her to drop support of the Specter compromise.
note which ones are up for reelection in 2008 = voters are watchin’
ooopsie ,i forgot about that BIG lie
Hard to apologize for these morons that elected them and Zell.
There has been two years of behind-the-scenes work on this. A LOT of it, for over two years now. It’s been a long, hard slog — and we would not have made any progress on this without all the calls and contacts and everything from all of you.
So thanks, patriots all.
I called McCaskill and Salazar already to tell them how much I appreciated their vote on cloture, and asked for more of the same - open debate, careful consideration of this important bill, and protection for rule of law. No Retroactive Immunity. Accountability, oversight, Rule of Law.
Keep Mikulski on the contact list.
Might as well target the GOP too, as far as the outcome goes. But she also will feel social heat from her DEM compatriots — whereas the pro-immunity side (mostly GOP, shilling for the administration — immunity is NOT a Congressionally-instigated idea or need) won’t.
Yes, I’m told that Dem leadership is holding that out to the GOP on this. So the Dem leadership is already well aware from what I’m hearing…
It is total crap and would kill the lawsuits just as surely as would amnesty for telcos. The government would immediately yell “National security! State secret!” and the lawsuits would be over.
Specter’s amendment is a lie.
didn’t she make her money in Tech?
TLinGA - Where in GA are you?
wow Dodd would have made a GREAT prez,would restore the office to dignity
And Mikulski voted no on the first cloture vote, correct?
compare Dodds speech to the chimp…oy
Nope. She has sucked at the public trough all her life
I love how Bond swoops in to tidy up parlimentary procedure. Glad Dorgan caught that. Uh, Kit, we got it. Your attempt fails miserably.
cboldt @ 87
So. almost Christy’s list:
Bayd, Carper, Clinton, Inouye, Johnson, Landrieu, Mikulski, Nelson (F), Nelson (NE), Obama, Pryor, Rockefeller, Salazar.
cboldt, who do we have the most chance to get?
Agree with Christy to target Repugs too. I’de like to keep Mitch’s fax machine busy for 24 hours personally…McCaskill’s on the list too…
OK Dodd…I’m a bit conflicted on helping people with their shitty mortgages. I am NOT into helping people that bought McMansions that were well beyond their actual means KEEP those McMansions. There are people that NEED to lose their homes. No subsidies for mansions (or McMansions) unless you also intend to subsidize my non-McMansion. Just saying.
Beyond that, regulate the crap out of mortgage lenders and banks (and all other corporations).
McCaskill. She is supporting the Specter compromise amendment
Congress should let the administration assert state secret, without compromising its own credibility.
If immunity is important, where is the repeal of 50 USC 1809 and 50 USC 1810? Why have penalties if the same organ that is setting the penalty (Congress) is willing to take it away?
So who else are we especially trying to cajole, shame, spank or bludgeon today?
Oh never mind - I see the list at 118.