hi

Hi Jane!

The nays have it!

so, now that we’re in recess, can recess appointments be made?

We have a nation to run and these jokers are wasting so much precious time as we swirl down the drain.

If there is a bill, who watches the signing statements? Is there ever any follow up after those?

Great work Jane, many thanks.

Dodd can stall passage of S.2248 by objecting to voting on its passage.

If the House is out of commission, then a “new” short extension can’t get past both the House and the Senate before Friday. Bush may want that, so he can throw stones at Congress. And the Senate would deserve to be mocked, if it had a 30 day extension in hand from the house, that it could pass and send to the president, making the lapse or not decision HIS, instead of Congress’s.

Impeach Cheney!!!

Jane, many thanks to you and Christy for driving the netroots lobbying effort against this terrible legislation. Everyone here who called, emailed and faxed can feel some satisfaction in knowing that our “representatives” in DC can SOMETIMES be compelled to do their jobs. Let’s keep after them.

Score a BIG ONE for the Constitution!!!! Go Dems!!!

If there is a bill, who watches the signing statements? Is there ever any follow up after those?

doesn’t really matter on the FISA bill. George can say whatever he wants - it does not carry the force of law. If a bill is passed without immunity, the courts will thereafter at least have to consider suits against the telecoms. No criminal cases until 2009, of course, but civil suits will live on. (with all of the normal impediments of standing, State Secret claims, etc.)

Impeach Cheney!!!

it’s a start, eh not?

Thank you, Thank you!! Jane, Marcy, Everyone.
I think ‘we’ may be getting the ‘Politicians’ attention. All those calls, faxes, e-mails and general bitching loudly told ‘them’ we are paying attention and not happy…Well done everyone…..

Hear hear!

I could give a rat’s ass if the Dems are mocked or attacked by the right…bring it on!!! She or he who stands up to this Administration is a heroine/hero to the MAJORITY. The Majority rules!! Bring on the insults…make our day!! One hero is worth 100 chickensh*ts!!!

Forgive me if this sounds stooopidd. I was planning on being on top of this all day and then shit happened with my dad and ……

So - as of right now - now - the FISA bill is set to sunset OUT unless an extension is made. is that correct?

Our pleasure — but it isn’t done yet. More fighting tomorrow. Anyone up for more FAXing this evening?

I look forward to hearing Dana Perino explain why the President wouldn’t veto MCConnell’s “short extension,” but would veto the 30-day extension of the PAA.

I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near Cheney right now…..

Hopefully the house passes the 30 day extension and just leaves…

it’s hard to imagine enough Repubicans will defy Bush to achieve the 60 votes necessary for an extension.

Given the choice between a hot potato in their lap, and one in the president’s lap, I’m sure their perspective will change.

McConnell won’t have any easy way to get a short term extension past both the Senate and the House, especially not if there is an objection to a short term extension. One Senator’s objection is enough to impose a 3 day stall of a bill or amendment. What’s tomorrow? Tuesday? And the House is leaving town after tomorrow?

This is narrowing down to a 30 day extension, or no bill out of Congress this week. GOP’s choice. Which do they prefer? DEMs could even call a cloture motion on the 30 day extension from the House, and have time to get THAT to President Bush on Friday, if they can peel off 10 or so GOP who don’t want to look like fools for letting the PAA lapse.

What’s to be faxed?

you know what’s a very nice sidebar to what just happened?

the telecoms are now officially shitting in their boots!

that’s right, expect them to put a hold on all stealing by this administration unless immunity gets in the bill

this means they are now going to say no to bush, they have to, they have no choice

joy

This is a repeat comment from last thread. I think the Dem Prez candidates can work wonders in the coming GOP propaganda bliizzard bald-face-lie-festival. Will any of the three Democratic candidates step up and show some leadership. They have the pultipit and hold the mega-phone. I think people should let them kmow that they reall do need to display this tough experience/vision of change one or the other or both talks about so much.

They did show up and vote today, which is a good start. They need thanks for that, and strong suggestion that their efforts need to continue and strenghten if any of them are to be believed.

That would include willingness to call BS on GOP political stunts and hypocracy and lies, and they have to do this in the corporate media’s face on radio and TV and in speeches.

And what should we be faxing about?

Jane you are a gem. I sure am glad to see that neither side is letting politics get in the way of common sense.

I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near Cheney right now…..

As opposed to - when? *g*

I could give a rat’s ass if the Dems are mocked or attacked by the right…bring it on!!! She or he who stands up to this Administration is a heroine/hero to the MAJORITY. The Majority rules!! Bring on the insults…make our day!! One hero is worth 100 chickensh*ts!!!

I WANT the re puke leecans to TRY to attack the real patriots in our government

and the democrats BETTER be ready to EMBARRASS THE CRAP out of them

Wordsmith!
I loved your blog entry today! and that photograph you use at the top is, just — well — dreamy

Jane!! You are the best!! I look forward to your appearance in Philly at Atrios’ shindig.

Dubya has another card up his sleeve

Amid the controversy brewing in the Senate over Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) reform, the Bush administration appears to have changed its strategy and is devising a bold new plan that would strip away FISA protections in favor of a system of wholesale government monitoring of every American’s Internet activities. Now the national director of intelligence is predicting a disastrous cyber-terrorist attack on the U.S. if this scheme isn’t instituted.

Fear-Monger-in-Chief, DNI McConnell says

“My prediction is that we’re going to screw around with this until something horrendous happens,” said McConnell. So the way to prevent this from happening, he claims, is to give the government the power to spy at will on the content of all e-mails, file transfers and Web searches.

Farther down …

President Bush has already made clear he would veto any FISA bill that did not give retroactive immunity to the telecoms. However, if McConnell’s soon to be unveiled spy-at-will plan is turned into law, a separate law giving retroactive immunity to the telecoms would be unnecessary. All Bush and Cheney would need to do to protect themselves from criminal liability would be to make the new spy-at-will law retroactive in effect from the inception of the illegal NSA surveillance program. This would also be sufficient to deflate the civil suits filed against the telecoms because the past illegal spying activities that these companies conducted on behalf of the government would then become “legal.” Indeed, the Bush administration has already done this sort of legal retro-dating and nullifying of civil rights and gotten it through Congress. For example, the Military Commissions Act of 2006 conveniently gave Bush the power to decide whether someone—including himself—is guilty of torture, irrespective of the Geneva Conventions, and it made this authority retroactive to Nov. 26, 1997.

I have more links here

Mitch McConnell says that he may consider a “short extension” tomorrow

So, it’s starting to sound to me like McConnell is trying to engineer a double-skunk of the Democrats on this issue, in that a) he gets an up-or-down vote on retroactive immunity (which will pass) and b) he gets to delay it until after the SOTU so that Dubya can lambaste the Democratic Congress as cowardly terrorist sympathizing obstructionists on prime time TV.

In honor of Jr’s last SOTU…..and in light of all of his bluster of late…I think this is an appropriate time to quote he who W compares himself to, heh, heh, heh:

“Again, it is a singular omission in this message, that it, no where intimates when the President expects the war to terminate. At it’s beginning, Genl. Scott was, by this same President, driven into disfavor, if not disgrace, for intimating that peace could not be conquered in less than three or four months. But now, at the end of about twenty months, during which time our arms have given us the most splendid successes–every department, and every part, land and water, officers and privates, regulars and volunteers, doing all that men could do, and hundreds of things which it had ever before been thought men could not do,–after all this, this same President gives us a long message, without showing us, that, as to the end, he himself, has, even an imaginary conception. As I have before said, he knows not where he is. He is a bewildered, confounded, and miserably perplexed man. God grant he may be able to show, there is not something about his conscious, more painful than all his mental perplexity!”

Abe Lincoln

Passing a 30-day extension puts Bush in a double bind:
* If he vetos it, he undercuts are his arguments that the original FISA act is no longer acceptable.
* If he doesn’t veto it, he will have backed down (for perhaps the first time in his life) and will lose the element of rush — it’s much tougher to stampede congress where there isn’t an immanent deadline.

Left this at te bottom of the last thread:

Hey. Listen. I’ve been saying since last night we were gonna lose. I even was willing to give 8 votes on it. Thank god no one took me up on it. Listen, everyone of us deserves to pat himnself or herself on the back (or wherever else he/she wanna pat him/her self.) Da bloggers made a difference including the FDL people. Can’t say how much of a difference and I don’t wanna overstate it. Just dunno. But undoubtedly, we made some difference.

Excelsior!!

The Congressional GOP has gone stark raving mad. Let us see what the public says. If Dodd is correct about what he is hearing from public, we might be hearing about a new wave of congressional GOP retirements.

That is, if the public hears the truth about what happened today. Clinton? Obama? Edwards? Your country needs you. Are you real leaders or just a few more gutless wonders and poltical losers?

a little something to make our day;

bush admits to being a bubble boy

It would be fitting if the Party that effectively began with Lincoln effectively ended with Bush.

DAD!!!!!!

Yeah! I saw you stopped by….thanks. God, I wish I had the time for just driving around, traveling, photographing. That photo is beautiful. There’s a photo blog too, Ellie - I’ll get the name, she has wonderful photographs.

NO EXTENSION! There is no need whatsoever for an extension because A0 the Administration can order any comprehensive program or programs they want prior to the lapse of the PAA and that program(s) will stay in effect for one full year; and B) the original FISA law is reinstated. Furthermore, passage of any extension is a wolf in sheep’s clothing because is equitably removes and/or weakens many arguments and defenses that opponents to the PAA had from it’s original passage in August 2007. At the time of the original passage most congressmembers voted based upon false and misleading facts provided by the Administration, McConnell and Hayden, voted under a false fear that the country was in jeopardy of an imminent attack (another direct lie), were not aware of the secret memos produced by OLC that were legally indefensible, etc. If they now vote to extend the PAA, they not only effectively remove all those germane defenses/explanations, they also give credence to the position that there is some merit and legality to the PAA. There is absolutely no need for an extension and passing one weakens our sides position. THERE MUST BE NO EXTENSION.

wigwam @35 - under the circumstances, passing an extension for political posturing makes us no better than the Retugs. There should be no extension passed of any variety.

Heh!!

We’re in a totally different situation from last August. Now, the administration has 100% of the snooping tools it needs. The only thing it’s lacking is the immunity.

Back in August, it had the argument that it couldn’t snoop foreign-foreign traffic on domestic switches. It doesn’t have that argument now. There is no rush for new surveillance tools - Congress can just extend the existing tools, which work GREAT for the administration.

It’ll be interesting to see if Senator Reid can figure out a way to separate the surveillance tools from the retroactive immunity. The parliamentarian told Specter that his substitution amendment wouldn’t be germane post-cloture? Maybe the entire issue of immunity isn’t germane, when the bill’s subject is surveillance tools.

Oh, Dana!!!

I think if the Democrats stand up to Bush and Cheney, they fold. Sorry to repeat myself, but look at what happens with Bush and Cheney have to deal with tougher and smarter people (in other words, any other foreign government that they cannot invade) -they get punked and fold ignominiously.

Can Bush pro-actively pardon the telecoms if it comes to that?

I’m just tempted to say: Tune in tomorrow, same time, same channel, for the next episode of FISA: the Soap Box Opera!

hat’s right, expect them to put a hold on all stealing by this administration unless immunity gets in the bill

They can’t. The new law includes the force of contempt of court for failure to follow an order, and it also provides immunity for following the orders. The need for retroactive immunity (in order to get cooperation) is pure unmitigated bullshit.

If he blanket pardons everybody, I hope he does it before the election.

beerfart, IF this country and her constitution survives it will be because of YOU, of me, OF FIREDOGLAKE, of the real patriots of this great nation

we really really make a differance

it’s becuase of US the democrats won a majority in both houses and it is because of US there is still truth reported to the country and the world

make no mistake about this beerfart, it’s because of us, each and every one

That would be like….pardoning Nixon!

Can Bush pro-actively pardon the telecoms if it comes to that?

No. The cases are civil litigation, not criminal charges.

OK, I am a little confused.. Do we want to contact members of the House and ask for them not to vote for extension at all and or vote NO?

They must stand up to Bush and Cheney!!! Bush and Cheney are corrupt and they are criminals…The whole world would rejoice, and the whole world is watching.

The need for retroactive immunity (in order to get cooperation) is pure unmitigated bullshit.

oach

that smarts, then we have wasted our time

Oops, right they are civial proceedings. thanks, I had forgotten that.

I’m not sure that a president can pardon a corporation. Is there precedent for that?

In any case, their stated concern has to do with civil suits, and I quite sure that pardons don’t cover those.

Isn’t it amazing that the people have to tell these bozos what the hell to do???!!!!

Spit!!

Your logic is excellent, but I have no qualms about playing hardball with these guys. In fact, it’s long past time that our side got tough.

I beg to differ, there will be a practical exemption

the telecom will be able to close it’s books and not allow discovery, they will site national security and they will be able to claim the suit is mute

I entirely disagree, I believe a pardon and a grant of executive priviledge will do the trick

After our discussion on this at EW, I did some review. All the Administration has to do in institute broad programs (the PAA is remarkably silent on the scope), which I am sure they already have, and/or re-up existing programs under the PAA and they are set. Anything they could accomplish with an extension, they can extremely easily accomplish without it. This is a red herring.

Roll call is up on both senate votes.

one

two

Having completed their own Greenbrier retreat last weekend, watch the GOP blame the Democrats’ upcoming retreat for the reason the PAA lapses.

All in all, an amazing victory for our rickety, teetering constitutional republic. I did not know she had it in her to withstand these assaults from the Bush Crewe.

You know, we really have to impeach these bastards.

MUWAHAHAHA!!!

Rove drops speech at prestigious school
Ex-Bush adviser withdraws amid student walkout threat, Colbert invite

tee hee

Not only Impeach. We must also Investigate, Interrogate, Indict, and Incarcerate.

I thought we would lose today too. Never been so glad to be wrong. :)

Check this little pixie dust out:

(d) Officers of the United States with authority or duties under the Act or this order shall ensure that, in carrying out the Act and this order, the actions of departments, agencies, and the Committee are consistent with the President’s constitutional authority to:

(i) conduct the foreign affairs of the United States;

(ii) withhold information the disclosure of which could impair the foreign relations, the national security, the deliberative processes of the Executive, or the performance of the Executive’s constitutional duties;

(iii) recommend for congressional consideration such measures as the President may judge necessary and expedient; and (iv) supervise the unitary executive branch.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news.....123-9.html

Shows that the students at JFK’s alma mater are smarter than the administrators.

OOh, I have NO problem playing hardball with these clucks. None whatsoever. I just think this particular issue/mechanism is not the right place and to do so is a tactical mistake. I try to look at it as an argument in open court; and I could twist this and jam it up our side real effectively if I were on the other side.

Have to agree, Perris, at least to a pretty large degree. Last week I was asking how small of a minority are liberal/progressives. You’ll be glad to know that we are the largest group among the Dems at 45.6%. Then there is also another 21.2% labelled disadvantaged (whatever that means. It doesn’t sound like an ideology to me) and another 33.2% conservatives. It was all right there in Wiki under Democratic Party (U.S.)

Anything they could accomplish with an extension, they can extremely easily accomplish without it.

They’ll never admit that. They are using the illusion of an intelligence gathering gap in order to obtain immunity, and the DEMs are currently posturing based on that illusion that reversion to pre-PAA FISA will be a disaster. IOW, the DEMs already played into that canard, and there isn’t a neat way out. First terrorist attack, and the GOP blames the DEMs for letting PAA lapse - not passing a modified revision to FISA

If the mission is to kill retroactive immunity, I don’t see a way to get a bill to the president quickly, without exposing the DEM/GOP Congressional cowards to the risk of being blamed for the contingent possibility of a terrorist attack.

Dodd would say that the bloggers have made a lot of difference. He knows he has an army standing behind him. This whole thing is the result of his courage to stand up for what is right and to lean on the support of countless online activists - and isn’t it great that he openly applauds and acknowledges those activists? - who see this as the final straw in a Presidency that uses the Constitution as a punching bag.

We are going to win this fight!

just for reference this is emptywheel’s pixie dust:

*Pixie Dust is the process by which, armed with an absurd ruling from OLC, the President doesn’t have to change any Executive Orders he decides to ignore or violate, he can simply ignore or violate them, and it’s the same, legally, as if he formally modified them.

Me three. What a relief. Since MSM seems to ignore the whole FISA thing, I supposed there will be no chance of watching Republikan tirades? I admit I missed Hatch’s dramatics today.

Thanks, Jane.

I had an interesting conversation with an Obama phone-staffer. I didn’t let go quite as quickly as she was used to, clearly, and pointed out that talking about leading is a tad different than actually, you know, leading.

I sure would love to see a speech in the new Obama tradition of inspiration coming from him. Until something like that happens, I will not believe his kumbaya rhetoric, not because it doesn’t inspire me, but because the GOP has completely failed to exhibit any behavior that even hints at cooperation.

Here’s hoping the GOP gets what they deserve this fall. Frankly, I’ll be disappointed, again, if it isn’t a landslide. Voting for criminal enterprises is pathetic.

so, now that we’re in recess, can recess appointments be made?

Nope! Has to be more than three days (not sure if that includes weekends). But an overnight recess…nope.

PW up top with Ari!

Don’t disagree with your analysis; but this could still be postured properly with the right cojones and effort. Now I do agree that that the Dems are likely lacking in that. They have played this unnecessarily on the Administration’s grounds all along. It is absolutely stupifying.

I believe a pardon and a grant of executive priviledge will do the trick

Pardon doesn’t work in civil cases. But I agree that state secret gets the cases tossed. Same result, same actor handing out the favor, just a different mechanism.

I do think Walker is getting real close to calling bullshit on states secrets assertion under an in camera review.

We in the netroots are being heard.
I had a civil conversation after being transferred in Specter’s DC office and confirmed his no vote on cloture #1. I’m from Iowa and have never penetrated the GOP web that far before.
and got a call back from Grassley’s FISA staffer and had a 20 minute spirited discussion where we agreed to disagree. All i got before was form letters.

I will not flatter myself but must admit I dropped some big names such as Marcy Wheeler, Glenn Greenwald, Jane Hamsher, and Christy Smith.*g*

Been on the phone with client almost all day. (Bad case of cauliflower ear)

This is my first chance to check into the lake.

Do I understand your post correctly? The Intelligence Committee bill will not get an up or down vote? The republicans are refusing to extend the bandaide bill? So, if nothing happens by Feb 1st, the bandaide bill will sunset and they will be back to the old version with no technology updates.

do think Walker is getting real close to calling bullshit on states secrets assertion under an in camera review.

And that’ll be appealed all the way to SCOTUS if necessary.

The government has a vested interest in keeping secret from the public, that it (the government) has a deep distrust for the public. If and when that fact hits home with a majority of voters, that the government views everyone as a potential suspect/terrorist, and that “there is no trust,” only a will to corral and control, if and when that seeps through, all the government bigshots, elected, appointed, it matters not, the entire relationship between the government and governed takes on a radically different tone.

And the courts don’t want that to happen, any more than the Congress does, or the executive.

About right; the ground will start shifting tomorrow though….

I know….he is becoming more brazen day by day…just to piss everybody off.

Aye, but it be the truth eh?

For a second, I thought you were defending a client with a bad case of cauliflower ear!!! Ouch!!

“Last week I was asking how small of a minority are liberal/progressives. You’ll be glad to know that we are the largest group among the Dems at 45.6%”

Yeah, but lots of those are PINOs — Progressive in name only. Take a look at the list of members sometime, and report what you see.

Bob in HI

And the percentage in leadership positions - not so much.

Well, I guess the netroots must have had a huge influence today.

Because at 5:00 PM MST which is 7 EST, I checked the websites of:

Wapo
NY Times
CNN
MSNBC
Google News

Not one word about the FISA bill vote. Nothing on the front page of any of them. Google News, the US news category has about 20 stories, this was not one of them.

Incredible.

Like the kid who losses playing basketball on the court, then takes his ball aways so no one can play! MSM corporate is compromise with a dose of ED, and in need of a dose of Vi*gra. KO is one of a select few who has the testicular fortitude, calling creeps, creeps, when they are creeps!!!!

Still no MSM play on this story, frontloaded on SOTU or soaked up in
the endorsement news, still no excuse for no coverage of this event.
Strange even for these times.

“We’ll be here tomorrow as the Senate takes up the Intelligence Committee FISA bill again.”

YES! WE WILL!
no rest for the illegal!

LS January 28th, 2008 at 3:15 pm 9
Impeach Cheney!!!

Do we have a second please…there is a motion on the floor. Is there any discussion of this motion by LS.

Its not strange at all. It is similar to the monstrous gaffe made by the music industry with regards to DRM and MP3s. The MSM (traditionally print media) is getting passed by due to technology (the internet).

Local and national news programs have been struggling for years against improved entertainment television. With the writer’s strike and the loss of writer supported television shows, even less are watching TV than would be anyway (and TV has already been experiencing lowered viewership!!).

Take all of these together and I think we’re seeing the beginning of the end of the relevance of the consolidated media’s power of information dissemination.

Unfortunately, I think this process is much slower than I would like. It would be easy to overestimate its effect when caught in the echo chamber of like-minded bloggers and news sites sympathetic to our own viewpoints.

iz anyone in here> is there a forum to blog the STFU?
i’d be MORE THAN CIVIL,
if there were,……
s

The MSM is a propoganda tool of the corporations, hence they will of course not carry any of what they consider setbacks over FISA. Honest to goodness, TASS and PRAVDA had more integrity than the MSM.

Schumer climbs back on board the demo train… the arkie dems jump ship.
What does it all mean Joe Lie abstained?

The primaries are showing big D vote coming congress critters looking for cover?

EFF’s Kevin Bankston will appear at tomorrow’s House Judiciary Committee public hearing to discuss reform of the state secrets privilege.

Arca January 28th, 2008 at 3:37 pm 65
You know, we really have to impeach these bastards.

Yes when your house is dirty and your neighbors are complaining to code enforcement about the shitpile in your yard. It is time to call in the clean up crew and put your country in order. Thanks for remiminding us.