Statement of Senator Obama:
I strongly oppose retroactive immunity in the FISA bill.
Ever since 9/11, this Administration has put forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand.
The FISA court works. The separation of power works. We can trace, track down and take out terrorists while ensuring that our actions are subject to vigorous oversight, and do not undermine the very laws and freedom that we are fighting to defend.
No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people – not the President of the United States, and not the telecommunications companies that fell in line with his warrantless surveillance program. We have to make clear the lines that cannot be crossed.
That is why I am co-sponsoring Senator Dodd’s amendment to remove the immunity provision. Secrecy must not trump accountability. We must show our citizens – and set an example to the world – that laws cannot be ignored when it is inconvenient.
A grassroots movement of Americans has pushed this issue to the forefront. You have come together across this country. You have called upon our leaders to adhere to the Constitution. You have sent a message to the halls of power that the American people will not permit the abuse of power – and demanded that we reclaim our core values by restoring the rule of law.
It’s time for Washington to hear your voices, and to act. I share your commitment to this cause, and will stand with you in the fights to come. And when I am President, the American people will once again be able to trust that their government will stand for justice, and will defend the liberties that we hold so dear as vigorously as we defend our security.
Thanks to everyone for the faxes, emails and phone calls that demonstrated how important this matter is to us, and to Senator Obama for stepping up.



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Hi Jane.
JANE!!!
hi jane
Right on, Obama!
dng, LL, UR 2 fast 4 me
Wow, this is great. He’s hit all the right buttons, with all the right rhetoric.
except, shouldn’t that be “even before 9/11″?
Ha, ha, good to see Old Lord McCain spending his precious treasure here on ads!
Congratulations Jane.
FunnyD, just dumb luck on my part! *g*
Jane thanks for all the hard work today.. and make sure the crew gets a little something for their contributions to keep those servers humming
Hi Jane.
Thanks for posting that!
Wow. I may have to reconsider my lifelong deep-seated cynicism. No kidding.
Well, it’s correct when one reads what he says in context…because before 9/11 they just spied on us without warrants and didn’t even say it was to protect us against “terrrissts”.
Thanks- got it.
c’ape, you forgot the extra sssssssss’s at the end of “terrissssstssssss”
Good to hear!
Thanks for all your work on this, Jane and FDL.
Obama’s statement is music to my ears!!
At least Dodd mentioned it today… ;-)
mama blog-madam moment. Texteen wrote http://youthinkleft.com/2008/01/28/gay-debate this/. He was in the 2 and not the 32. Proud mama!
[RBG Note; I’m hoping this is the correct link]
http://youthinkleft.com/2008/01/28/gay-debate/
Great news, Jane!
My sincere thanks and gratitude for Sen Obama’s joining Sen Dodd’s defense of the Constitution and the rule of law.
It seems W may have said in the SOTU that all earmarks will be voided, tomorrow, via Exec Order. If that’s the right reading, then doesn’t that potentially help things quite a bit, PAA/FISA-wise?
Under your dynamic leadership, FDL has come a long way since it was instrumental in helping the WaPu figure out that
Red State poster childXerox-boy, Ben Domenech was a “poor hire”and Jim “Church-lady” Brady was a tool.Yes, Dodd was brilliant today.
Yes.
thanks to FDL for excellent coverage, and great capsule summaries of the events, including Kabuki evens, show trial events, and real earnest historical events. Nice to see both Obama and Clinton step up a little bit. Hope they keep it up.
It has been a little frightening to watch the Congress allow itself to be neutered. What is up with the leadership, I cannot figure it out. Nothing can be really fixed until Congress is fixed.
If I remember my history right, the Roman Senate was not corrupted and neutered with threats of lawful and unlawful violence by the executive against uppity legislators. It was money. Augustus got the Senate to increase the wealth requirement for membership to unsustainable levels. Then the emperor would be there to loan the required funds whenever some poor slob Senator’s fortunes would dip. Pretty soon the whole joint was bought out. Sound familiar?
That is why I cannot get all that excited about which Democratic candidate gets the nomination (and I haven’t decided yet for sure who I’ll vote for, except leaning Edwards). Only Congress can fix Congress and we all saw how important Congress is today.
Reid even thanked the Lake
http://emptywheel.firedoglake……/#comments
betsy, i tried to fix your link but cant. wanna try again?
So, Gollum’s doing political commentary now, preciousssss?
I’m sleepy, but is there an inherhent separation of powers issue in Shrub’s threat?
Somewhere I dimly recall previous fights between Executive (Borax Boy? Tricky Dick?) and Congress re: Executive selectively denying funds appropriated by Congress?
Even more dimly (like about half a neuron power) I thought hte issue went to the Supremes of old – and the Executive actually lost.
However, I may be way off in the memory weeds here.
LMAO, I’m picturing Golem bent over the keyboard holding the s key.
It is a nice and a good statement; but it does not reflect a very sophisticated understanding of that which he is fighting. I hope that he has a better grasp of the issues and facts and simply wanted to keep his statement concise her. More importantly in some regards, I hope Obama has the follow through to start making this part of his message, because it is essential that the electorate and citizenry be informed and made active and proactive on this. Quite frankly, I don’t really see that out of either Obama or Clinton, and that is disturbing. I fear that both are paying lip service to us and this issue. Time will tell, but I see no evidence that there will be much of substance from either one on this critical matter; much more is needed, the fight is far from over.
Teddy! Didya see why the recent CNN poll that suggests that McCain might have a double-digit lead vs. Mitt might be flawed. Apparently they polled a lot of “liberal” and “moderate” voters who said they were supporting McCain in the Primary. Now how many “liberal” Republicans do we know out here in Cali? I can count the moderates on my left foot. What I think we have here is a bunch of INDEPENDENTS who may think that they can vote in the Republican Primary (and in fact may have voted in those primaries in the past,,,say for Ahhhnold)…but are going to be very surprised that the Pugs have closed their Primary off to the Party hard-core.
Most of those are staunch Conservatives.
Indy’s can only vote in the Democratic Primary (or AIP). They can do so on-site or if they request an absentee Democratic ballot. But if they try to write-in Ron Paul or McCain on the Democratic ballot (or the non-Partisan ballot sent to them) that vote won’t count. Apparently the Secretary of State have already seen a lot of ballots like this submitted by mail, which doesn’t bode well for St. Pauli and St. John ben Cain.
FunnyD, I know that’s a Harry Potter reference — but alas, I am Harry Potter-challenged :-(
There’s a great Support this site! link near the top right on this page.
Just sayin’ :)
Dang, bmaz, you’re up late… ;-)
What suprised me is how minimimal play this has been getting on a lot of legal blogs–many don’t even mention it.
One Truth – Two Speeches, and
3 Strange Days – School of Fish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2rw_XDVfsg
At this point, do you see any way for the SJC version’s (far from perfect, but obviously much better than SSIC)amendment to get a vote and muster enough votes 3/5 to pass in the Senate?
inherent, not “inherhent”
jeebus – i know can’t tpye for beans – but i bum when the typos look as if i’m spelling fonetically
Thanks very much, I missed that.
Wow.
Harry has a long way to go, but that’s a damn nice first step.
It would be nice if they talked about FISA on the stump… It would certainly move the issue to the fore front where it truly belongs…!
Excellent! Now that’s more like it, Senator.
Dang. Maybe I should consider giving him some money now. (Still expecting to vote Edwards in the primary, though.)
I agree…these bills, if passed by both Houses…ARE LAW. Bush is saying he won’t obey the law. Now Executive signing statements threatening such action in the past have generally been because the President was saying that the law itself was Unconstitutional. The Presidents of the past that used this method were basically saying, “You wanna take this to court, FINE…we’ll get a legal precedent about what you’re doing.”
Bush is so drunk on power and the Unitary Executive that he has forgotten that he isn’t King…and that these executive Signing orders were to support the Constitution…not VOID IT!
I thought it was a “Lord of the Rings” reference, My Precioussssss!
Nice to have candidate leadership… so good to put it on the line no parsing…are the dems coming together!!!! That is nice…They needed the netroot leadership and the Dems coming out in droves in the primaries. The momentum shift brings a lot of wonderful opportunities.
Dodd is doing great things. This statement is soo exciting as it insures more opposition to the wrong FISA a sets a precedent supporting our constitution…liberty!!
Oh, Ouch! It’s actually JRR Tolkein, LOTR. I’m a bit Potter-challenged myself. I think the last one I read was “order of the phoenix”.
FunnyDiva
Awfully full of Virgo for an Aquarius!
Unfortunately, the SJC bill was killed by Cloture, whereas, the SSCI bill is still alive, since Cloture failed…
Well dang, now I’ve really shown how out of the loop I am! ;-)
Even if it does Bush has threatened to veto it…so it actually will take 2/3’s+1 to become law. I guess Bush wants to leave us vulnerable to al Qaida?
I sure agree. I have regreted this for a good while, especially because these candidates now have media attention that’s off the wall.
And though I try to quell my inner cynic and can’t, I guess the main reasons are that 1) the obvious one that they are afraid and this has been much of a metaphor for Rove and now Gillespie going after the Dems in Congress that they’ll seem “soft on terrorism”. The pubic is much better than that–they can be educated and that’s part of what a candidate should do.
The only other reason I can think of–and this is terrible–is that they think it’s too detail oriented and already too low on the radar.
If those reasons are true, there is no excuse for thinking that way.
Texteen’s blog post: http://youthinkleft.com/2008/01/28/gay-debate/
HUGE pat on the back for Jane and the staff here! Good on you, Hons! :o)
Yeah, the law is pretty clear that the Executive may not use either signing statements or executive orders (which is what I think he described using) to supersede or set aside duly enacted law.
thanks, tex
As I read it, the argument is that since the earmarks are added after the bill is voted on, they aren’t truly voted on, and so the earmarks themselves aren’t actually law, although the spending bill is. That’s actually kind of convincing logic to me. But way tone-deaf if Team W doesn’t expect a fight from both sides of the aisle in Congress.
So, Gollum’s doing political commentary now, preciousssss?
Struck me the same… Tolkein just reverberates
Barack!!! Now, this is action I like to see!
Bob in HI
But, Goddammit, CTuttle’s right; they needed to be talking about this on the trail, BEFORE the vote was taken.
*%&$(%(!!! Why should we have to lead THEM?
Would it be bad of me to invoke TRex?:
Barack! Barack!! BARAAAAAACK!
Did you notice that Inouye voted appropriately today? I let him know that I was highly irate with his last vote…
OH FUCKING WOW!!! That’s a lot for Edwards and Clinton to match. NEXT!
I am not the best on Congressional procedure (crappy actually) but yes I think it can be brought back, but cinnamonape is correct that the numbers can’t overcome a sure veto, likely can’t overcome the 60 to even get there quite frankly.
Ther Hobbit and Lord of the Rings me precious ring of power fro which the blood is spilled always.
You’re right about the veto and then 2/3 kicks in. I’d still like to force him to veto anything I believed in if I were voting and hope they do.
I have rarely seen Bush *g* use AQ since 911 with any other intention than political–and know you were referencing them tongue and cheek.
As was pointed out earlier in discussions bet. bmaz and Cboldt earlier today:
Cboldt:
From bmaz:
Which is not a bad thing either, since the PAA will expire and lapse back to the prior FISA legislation…
Harry has a long way to go, but that’s a damn nice first step.
You betcha, a step in the left direction!
Wow this statement is the best thing I’ve seen from Obama. I don’t think that the corporate powers who put him on the cover of Time imagined that he’d step so boldly from the safety of false media (crackpot) “centrism.”
I’d like to believe you’re wrong, but don’t seem able to. YUCK.
bmaz help that one…hard to believe SJC is dead…but if none is past then FISA is explained as extended for a year by bmaz
yes
By a vote of the Senate, the SJC version has been tabled (i.e., removed from consideration). I have no idea what it might take to untable it, but I’m guessing that it would take a lot.
It could be revived by changing a word or two and resubmitted, but, Cloture was invoked, thus killing the bill… Right now, the failure to muster 60 votes at this juncture is our best friend… Hopefully, Reid and Dodd can manipulate it properly…
I don’t want to be a downer; it was a very good day relatively speaking. We have really got to start doing a better job of thinking tactically on these things though, instead of just emotionally. Reid has shown himself a little better lately and it showed today; however, if he had flip flopped his emphasis on the two bills and set things up right, we would be a lot better off right now. Toughness AND cunning; not one, the other or neither. which is what we always seem to get.
Obama – Gore ‘08.
I can feel it coming. Anyone else?
Adult, non-crook leaders for a change.
Struggling to feel the love for Obama tonight. Thought his turning away from HRC at the speech was, to be blunt, juvenile. Eight years of petulant leaders is enough.
Must have sucked to be a waffling Dem Senator today, though, with all the FDL/Glennzilla-led wrath raining down on them! Bravo, netroots!
Thanks for that, CTuttle! Never having lived in Hawaii, I haven’t followed Inouye’s career at all. Really my only memory of him is seeing him excoriate Ollie North in the Iran-Contra hearings over the fact that a “following orders” excuse is only valid when the orders are lawful, while North glared at him with a who-the-f-are-you-to-tell-me-anything look on his face. At which point the Senator was rudely interrupted by North’s attorney, and he desisted.
I was always so impressed by that. But lately I’ve been wondering whether that wasn’t who Inouye really was back then, or if it simply isn’t who he is any more.
FISA as it existed before the PAA would be in full force and effect; in addition to that, any program, which is a very broad concept allowing about anything, that is in effect under PAA as of Friday will continue for one year from the date it was started. In effect, the PAA could continue in full force by the Administration recertifying any program they want to use on Thursday.
Brendan “Potted-Plant” Sullivan. Helluva lawyer, though.
Unless I’m missing something, they have to have the votes to get an amendment considered and stop the ditto heads from blocking it. It sure could happen theoretically.
I can’t understand why there isn’t more intense outrage at Reid for having brought SSIC to the floor.
Cboldt is great with procedure. Any of these amendments could be brought up, and notice that Harry Reid has never for all his rhetoric been explicit as to why he helped cause this situation by not bringing SJC to the floor (which by the way does not solve many problems but at least it does not grant immunity and that’s a major component.
My understanding is that to get SJC passed as an amendment you need 60 votes, and has has been quickly pointed out–Bush is going to veto anything less than what he’s trying to dictate and have McConnell and people who insult our intelligence ram through,and ultimately that bottom lines out to a 2/3 vote to overcome the veto.
Reid, IMHO, was doing the song and dance from the beginning with S. 2248 of appearing to fight the good fight, but for jeebus sake, one of the perks of him being SML instead of McConnell is that he has the perogative of what and when to bring bills to the floor. He sure knew what he was doing.
We could be in for a cascade of votes and fillibuster attempts throughout the week.
I find these helpful for comparison of the House, SJC, and SSCI bills, and for showing what even SJC does not cover.
Comparison Chart of FISA Legislation
Guide to FISA Floor Legislation
Inouye is a main stream Dem, I think he’s been steadily co-opted by the DLC recently, but, he certainly brings home the bacon… He was a member of the famed 442nd Regiment and lost an arm in Italy!
The tool shed was opened by Netroots. Some of tools have been sharpened. You have to use the tools you have…all the guest posters have done wonders informing the blogsphere.
Crossposting has provided great information without editing that publishers of news shows and radio have to submit to.
The phone banks and the faxes and e-mailing have been very effective.
I think when your team scores you have to celebrate.
As President Thomas Jefferson pointed out an informed electorate is important.
Obama is reaching the younger voters. It is all working together. Getting stuck on who wins is less important than getting the right agenda fo us and the rest of the planet.
I agree bmaz well placed efforts are most efficient. How do you achieve it?
so if Bush wipes out all the earmarks – which some pundit tonight said he did not have the power to do … will the D’s finally move to impeach him?
illegal war, destruction of the constitution, katrina, none of those seem to get through to them but maybe no bacon for back home will finally clarify it all?
and with that, it’s sleep time here in the windy city
New thread…
heh heh, man I wish I knew. It sure would help if we could convince the three Dem candidates to start talking about this issue and explaining it to the people. Jane’s idea to force the issue through Edwards may again be a good one. I dunno, more of what we have been doing i guess.
Upstairs is Suzanne’s post!
I think it was Tweety that mentioned it, Siun! Impeachment would be pure sweetness, but, not the means to rectify that abomination of stripping earmarks out… Aloha!
Not to harp or anything, but I don’t see how nuking the earmarks now is in Team W’s interest, PAA-wise. Ain’t gonna help keep the R’s together any.
Dodd made the statement today taht we need to have the opportunity…blocked by Rethugs…to fix the FISA law. Would that happen if it went back to committees for rewording and addressing the problems Dodd sees. Will you and bmaz and cboldt be compfortable with what details. Marcy would sure add to the discussion as well as Christy.
May I call for a another thread you all could do tomorrow before the vote. We have no direction on what to ask of our congress critters now unless oppose any bill/amendment and tackle it back in committee.
I see Reid asking Bancy to rush something tomorrow that shrub will like.?
His injury in the War, and wearing his medals to the hearing, made all the more meaningful his questioning of North, who had sold weapons to a government that was by any measure, short of open warfare, an enemy of the United States, and then used the profits to illegally fund insurgents in Nicaragua.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..2/14/reid/
See above. I was writing a long reply and it got wiped out, but most everything I had to say is in the Glenzilla posting cited above.
A well done to Jane, Greenwald (thanks for the email) and FDL on this one.
WHO shifted and were swayed? Blue Dogs?
Unfortunately, Senator Feinstein won’t take my calls, and only responds with dribble to my emails. *G*
Great statement.
It’s worth remembering that there is no constituency, none, for telecom amnesty. There is nobody, other than telecom shareholders or executive who benefits from this. Withholding amnesty has no effect whatsoever on national security. The only purpose is to protect the administration from scrutiny.
I believe [recollect] that Bush recently sent out a memo to executive agencies instructing them to adhere to any terms within his signing statements that were applicable [poss also referred to other memoranda to be sent separately], such that he is pressuring agencies to desist from moving forward on any funded item that he disagrees with.
It’s all a bit blurry now but it was a truly disgusting read.
Dont know how many others are as incensed as I am about these chain emails being sent to religious groups and others that question Sen. Barack Obamas patriotism and religious beliefs. (See press link to last weeks open letter from Jewish groups being bombarded with these emails: http://www.adl.org/internet/Letter_obama.asp)
The use of the Internet to spread false information about a political candidate— and thus to affect the outcome of an election— is particularly abhorrent to me.
We cannot regress to old-style dirty tricks. In the public interest, we need to get behind these emails—and identify who originated them.
If you have received such an email, please forward it to me.
negemail53@gmail.com