Posted early by mistake? Zed.

Kohl needs to be contacted too. He’s been tight lipped about this whole deal in all contacts I’ve had with him.

Phone: (202) 224-5653
Fax: (202) 224-9787

new zed!

This reposting thing is like the two-headed hydra!

digg it! Fax for Facts!

Two zeds; one post!

CHS! I am updating a post on my blog from earlier today to link to this one.

Short, sweet and to the point. Music to my ears.

i shall simply fax this

http://www.archives.gov/nation.....oom_1.html

In re: Liddy Dole, if this were a matter of removing make-up from cosmetic counters, she’d be all over it. But wiretapping and Consitutional issues? Not so much.

im heading to Kinkos now

Bayh phone number sounds like a fax. I’ll try the fax number…

i gave wrong …link my eyes very bad this am

http://www.archives.gov/nation.....oom_1.html

this is the Constitution…sorry about that

Oh, and the truly funny part is that while “conservatives” like Nooners whine about how Beloved Leader has “destroyed” the GoOPer Party, they still won’t take a half-step away from him even as he continues to lead them in a fully-developed, out-of-control spin. Too funny.

Bayh phone and fax numbers should be reversed. Thanks.

FISA talking points:

— Immunity for the telecos entails immunity for Bush and his henchmen.

— It’more honorable to fight and lose than capitulate to evil.

— The place to try federal crimes is in federal court, not in Congress where corporate fortunes can buy a verdict

— Per Benjamin Franklin: “Those who would trade essential liberties for a bit of safety deserve neither liberty nor safety and will lose both.”

— Per William Pitt: “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

— The claims of great urgency are totally bogus. The current law, which sunsets February 2, allows the Attorney General to authorize programs for up to a year. Thus, he can now authorize the current surveillance programs to continue for the duration of the Bush administration. Don’t let the bastards stampede Congress like they have so often in the past.

— Per Glenn Greenwald:

“Rockefeller’s claim that telecoms can’t submit exculpatory evidence to the court is flat-out false, an absolute lie. There is no other accurate way to describe his statement.

“Under FISA (50 USC 1806(f)), telecoms are explicitly permitted to present any evidence in support of their defenses in secret (in camera, ex parte) to the judge and let the judge decide the case based on it. That section of long-standing law could not be clearer, and leaves no doubt that Rockefeller is simply lying when he says that telecoms are unable to submit secret evidence to the court to defend themselves:

[W]henever any motion or request is made by an aggrieved person pursuant to any other statute or rule of the United States or any State before any court or other authority of the United States or any State to discover or obtain applications or orders or other materials relating to electronic surveillance or to discover, obtain, or suppress evidence or information obtained or derived from electronic surveillance under this chapter, the United States district court or, where the motion is made before another authority, the United States district court in the same district as the authority, shall, notwithstanding any other law, if the Attorney General files an affidavit under oath that disclosure or an adversary hearing would harm the national security of the United States, review in camera and ex parte the application, order, and such other materials relating to the surveillance as may be necessary to determine whether the surveillance of the aggrieved person was lawfully authorized and conducted.

“How much clearer could that be? Directly contrary to Rockefeller’s claims, federal courts are not only able, but required (”shall”), to review in secret any classified information — including evidence over which a “states secrets privilege” has been asserted — in order “to determine whether the surveillance of the aggrieved person was lawfully authorized and conducted.” Federal courts already have exactly the power that Rockefeller dishonestly claims they lack.”

Thank you for putting all this together.

Carper phone and fax numbers are reversed. Obama is correct, but the voice box is full.

before i head out into the cold ,i just want to post this,about the hyporicy,of the pukes,…they want to WIRE TAP your phones,but when they get specific,and irrefutable evidence,they DONT listen or CARE

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._0126.html

(psst…that weird WordPress thingy is coming up again, like last night.)
Just in case you were aware.)

FDL is there and then it is gone to the WordPress login…. like a blinking light

Hello.

CNN reporting that TED KENNEDY will endorse Obama.

It took me a long time to get back in and to get the comments.

(psst…that weird WordPress thingy is coming up again, like last night.)
Just in case you weren’t aware.)

– Retroactive immunity on FISA is designed to immunize the Bush/Cheney Administration. Once immunity is given, it cannot be taken back.

that’s a good point

along those lines I believe this one is powerfull as well;

If they’ve aquired information

WOW!! That’s a big one.

sorry it posted twice…it was the flukey thingy.

OT/EPU’s

Typhoid Liz to endorse Team Romney.

I’d rather get the O. J. Simpson seal of approval.

-G

Yes indeed, it IS better to fight than give in to evil. But remember, the illegal eavesdropping very likely goes beyond data mining for suspected terrorists, it could also include the political opposition. How better to neutralize one’s enemies? How else to explain the gutless Democratic Congress, cowed by a lame duck President with 30% approval ratings?

It’s the blackmail, stupid!

Think of the famous cave-ins by Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein, and the list goes on. What are they really afraid of?

Yes, I’ll be faxing too, today. But realize just how compromised these people could be.

Once immunity is given, it cannot be taken back.

Why not?

oops, submit was hit by the palm of my hand

anyway;

“immunity will give permission for all parties to use our intellectual property for their own profit, if they managed to see a diagram or a manuscript this immunity makes it impossible for us to reclaim our property”

or something along those lines…stealing their property is something the Republicans understand and a fax like that should go to the republicans that are worried about re election

So, can anyone explain to me, in simple terms, what this Kennedy-Obama circle is about?
Maybe my head cold is making me (more) dense.

I believe john’s daughter already endorsed him last night

we are supposed to have habeas corpus protection, a law can’t be established after the fact, once the telecoms are given immunity it would be a violation of habeas protection to take it away

Another talking point:

The current FISA (Intel version) provisions for telecom immunity, basket warrants and lack of minimization procedures are a stepping stone to further, more intrusive warrantless spying on Americans. See the New Yorker article and the following RawStory link:

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._0114.html

As McConnell says in the New Yorker article:

Debate on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act “will be a walk in the park compared to this”

To Senators: Kill immunity and basket warrants NOW and require more minimization NOW or you will open the door to more intrusive spying on Americans later.

Right. Recinding immunity would not undisclose our intellectual property. But we recinding immunity allow us to send them to jail for stealing it in the first place?

So far in early voting, Republicans have outnumbered Democrats 427,018 to 371,642. At that pace, Democrats are expected to more than triple the number of early voters from 2004, despite the fact that because of sanctions by their party, Democratic candidates have essentially boycotted Florida, coming here only to raise money at private functions.

They outnumber us (so far; we could narrow that) by what? (My math sucks. Help me out here.) About 55,000 out of about 800,000 and we don’t even have a primary to speak of? Republicans, I’m not impressed.

Caroline Kennedy’s op ed piece in the NYT is Very powerful - my sweetie was crying while reading it to our teenager.

That’s Florida stuff.

minutia would never see the light of day, any and all cases would be dismissed, they might even be sanctioned for filing suits that can’t stand in court

(minutia, a great word, no?)

Do you have a link?
It might answer my earlier question.
Thanks in advance.

Don’t forget that you can send a Fax directly from your computer, if you can hook it up to a phone line.

Instructions for Windows XP:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306657

There are also web based services out there that will send a fax for you, but I’m not that familiar with them.

Bill Nelson endorsed HRC for whatever it’s worth. Again, I’m not impressed. It’s not like he can turn people out for her. Who cares? We don’t have any delegates. (Actually Nelson will endose HRC probably tomorrow. The HRC campaign leaked it.)

Speaking of Senator Spaceman, I thought he was a FISA good guy back in December but he voted to table the judiciary committtee bill the other day. Gotta work on him.

Yesterday, Gov. Crist, like Sen. Martinez endorsed McCain. Good-bye Rudy. Good-bye Rudy. Good-bye, Rudy; we hate to see you go.

great word.

True. I fax from my desktop Mac, but my laptop has no modem. It’s great, you just write something in a TextEdit document and fax using the print function’s fax options.

I’ll join the faxblast, happily. :)

Yesterday, Gov. Crist, like Sen. Martinez endorsed McCain. Good-bye Rudy. Good-bye Rudy. Good-bye, Rudy; we hate to see you go.

I actually do hate to see him go, an adulterating drag queen who killed firemen by taking bribes would have been the most beatable among the candidates

Anti-Obama smear mail prompts Hatch Act violation investigation.

-G

For anyone else who wants to read it, here’s the link to the NYT op-ed by Caroline Kennedy:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01.....ref=slogin

Yea. I do too. For the reasons you cite, plus I wanted to see yet another person win a primary/caucus and make their race even more convoluted.

Does Credo cost $$$ ?

I don’t think endorsements by politicians carry much weight; however, there are people, who transcend politics, that can move votes by endorsing a candidate. There have been four contested caucuses and primaries. Obama has won two. Please remind me in which states Oprah held rallies.
Well, I am kidding, sort of.

Locking the barn door after the horses are out, but I suppose better than no action at all.

Word Press message again.

I have been getting the Word Press messages, also.

Claire McCaskill (Dem senator from Missouri) is leaning toward the Specter amendment (substitute the federal government for the telcos as defendant in the lawsuits).

We need to impress upon her that that is not a viable option. She needs to listen to her constituents and do whatever she can to strip telco immunity out of the FISA bill. She also needs to listen to non-constituents as well, since she is co-chair of the Obama campaign.

We need to let her know that it’s not too late to come down on the right side of this issue.

I agree with you except that these people sometimes (usually(?)) have a ntwrok of people in place to help out the candidate they endorse. But Martinez is kinda reviled by their people because he pushed what they call “shamnesty.” And Crist isn’t at all conservative enough for them.

P.S. That World Press thing is fuckin’ me up.

Claire McCaskill (Dem senator from Missouri) is leaning toward the Specter amendment (substitute the federal government for the telcos as defendant in the lawsuits).

I get so tired of these meaningless, cosmetic “compromises” that politicians love for their CYA value. So many of them are of the type “We’ll still jump over the cliff but we will only fall half way.”

The Specter amendment sounds, to me, like a grover norquist dream come true.

Jim Dean and Democracy for America have come with an ad.

I’m gone. Word Press has annoyed the shit outta me.

I’m gone. This is bullshit. Word Press has annoyed the shit outta me. Can’t deal anymore.

Emphasis.

“Germaine” is important feminist Greer’s given name.

You want “germane”.

yes, I’m a pedant.

We need to impress upon her that that is not a viable option.

No way. The Congress and the courts have been really, really effective at holding the executive accountable for wrongdoing. It’s a totally viable option.

It’s total crap. The instant that the telecoms are given a free pass and the “responsibility” is passed en toto to the government, the Bushies will say the “magic words”: National Security!

And the court cases will die the way Specter wants them to die, the way Reid wants them to die, the way Schumer wants them to die, etc.

So not a norquist dream come true?

Sorry about the hiccups, gang — we did an upgrade last night, and it isn’t playing nice with Wordpress for some reason. We’re working on it, and hopefully have it resolved…thanks much for your patience!

For what it’s worth, I just refresh my page and the hiccup goes away.
Really not that difficult.
But, if it’s really That Annoying, there’s always the FISA faxing to keep y’all occupied.
Or, that ever elusive Nap.
:)

Thanks for the talking points and phone numbers Christy. I must admit, after watching CSpan all day Friday, and reading everyone’s explanations of what actuallly happened, I’m still confused by all the maneuvering.

The good news (or not depending on perspective) that half the staffers I get on the phone know less than I do about piece of legislation. Sometimes the lack of knowledge is slightly astounding. I guess I don’t care, as long as they take down what my comments are and pass them along.

No problem! Just good to be here :)

I lost patience and had a hissy. Never did leave though.

Bill Nelson voted for cloture on Alito and has consistently Blue dog/bush dogged most of his votes. He’s a real finger in the wind type of pol. I will fax this blue dog right now. Incidentally, Nelson said (with great authority and confidence) on NPR that Florida will seat its delegates when the time comes.

Believe me, you were not the only one to lose patience…I just didn’t do it in a comment. *g*

re: hissy, I bet you’re the kind of guy that may loose it over the little things, but when a real crisis happens, you’re a boulder.
Am I right?
*g*

[H]alf the staffers I get on the phone know less than I do about piece of legislation.

I’m not real clear on exactly how Senators’ offices are staffed, but it wouldn’t suprise me if the vast majority of what the people who you can get on the phone deal with has nothing to do with legislation, and everything to do with filtering through the people who get real access to the Senator–big donors, CEOs, and those types–and dealing directly with ordinary constituent requests–help with the federal government, etc.

Faxed Cardin and Mikulski using FreeFAX (faxzero did not work for me). Mikulski is a hard-case on this issue and I think we’d have better luck promoting Thugs than her, but I tried anyway. The WordPress issue appears to be resolved now.

Yeah. He’s right. But the “time comes” when somebody finally wins the nomination. Then they’ll seat tem (and Michigan). Doesn’t give me a meaningful election on Tuesday.

Half right.

PS, threads are like buses and men (or whatever your preference). There’ll be another one in a few…

the root of the problem is that the US government is government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations. And there are plenty of democrats, even most democrats that have bought into that. The average citizen is nearly meaningless to most politicians.

In terms of fundamental structural changes needed to take back America, in addition to breaking up Big Media, corporate activity in politics has to be eliminated.
.

It’s okay. Still love ya.

The telecom immunity debate is completely absent on the teevee. I haven’t heard a single mention about it in the 437 (?) primary presidential debates. One can easily draw the conclusion corporate media avoids the issue like the plague merely due to the immense advertising budgets the telecoms wield.

There is absolutely nothing free about the press.

Consider Mike Wallace and tobacco. Certainly corporate media can roll their Village eyeballs at such claims, but the precedent has been set, and they refuse to cover an unprecedented gift our congress is preparing to give to the telecommunication companies that violated the law repeatedly and for years. If immunity is granted, and no harm can come, watch for the chattering classes to feign righteous indignation forcing the telecoms to boost ad buys to repair their image. Funny how that works.

Meanwhile, the exposing and fight against these corporate giants are led by a handful of bloggers like Christy, Glenn, and Marcy to ant-lobby, which means stand for America as opposed to special interests. Thanks for what you do, which serves as the central reasoning why the internet is such a vital tool.

You’re makin’ me blush.

Oh, hiccups are also opportunities to get up and get something done.
So far, I’ve already made a potatoe and broccoli casserole, pecan coffee cake is in the oven and there is a loaf of bread rising.
It’s the truth but I’m kinda gently teasing those who are cranky over small problems.

Wow, I just recovered from one heckva of system crash, and I see there are tech problems here too. Nice to know I’m not alone. :)

Now, hopefully the efax service will cooperate.

The wordpress thing isn’t resolved yet by the by.

Faxed Cardin and Mikulski using FreeFAX (faxzero did not work for me).

Exactly backwards: FaxZero.com worked, FreeFAX did not. Sorry.

I can’t belive the Democratic Party has allowed this Michigan and Florida debacle to occur.
If for no other reason than campaigning in a particular state’s primary is the best way to prepare for winning that state’s electoral votes in November. There is no better way to learn the lay of the land and the folks that populate it.

Wow, really? I hadn’t noticed… *g*

One part of this that I find particularly disturbing is Senator Sheldon Whitehouse’s insistence that, to paraphrase, “telecom companies that acted in good-faith and heeded the governments requests for compliance are now prevented from defending themselves because of the states secrets requirements, and should thus be entitled to relief.”
To my knowledge, he has not alleged that the initial actions, the illegal spying, were in any way legal.

Back when FISA was first enacted (and I’m certain well before that), all the telecoms had to be staffed with hundreds if not thousands of attorneys, some of whose jobs surely were to evaluate the validity of warrants. To presuppose that these attorneys weren’t consulted when ChimpCo acted to compel is ludicrous, and to give any of these companies a break on the grounds of the states secrets challenge again presupposes “good faith” on the part of the companies. There is simply no possible claim of “good faith” arising from the companies initial actions.

Senator Whitehouse must know better. There is something else going on. I hope.
Christy - how far off-base am I?

IIRC, you know your bible.
Love is Patient and Kind.
Can’t have too much of that, ever.

Please hit Bayh’s office hard: He’s changed votes before when pressured.

(202) 224-5623
(202) 228-1377 fax

I still think Lugar’s a possible cross-over (staff was very receptive, anyway). Staffer seemed taken aback at the idea that immunity was about to be granted without ever having determined what activities the telecoms had committed.

202-224-4814
202-228-0360 fax

Again, thanks Christy -

I have my work cut out for me Monday morning. I just put it together so I can get through my list and move on.

Interesting turn of events with Kennedys supporting Obama. I admit he is a powerful speaker. I still have my concerns.

I think the telecom companies were given assurances from the WH counsel (then Gonzales), Addington and others that this was a necessary course of action and legal under Art. II — and they ran with them. And Whitehouse is having qualms about holding them responsible for what was really a scheme at the highest levels of the executive branch to subvert the law.

I get where he is coming from with that — but he’s wrong to assume that Specter or anyone else in the GOP is operating on good faith on this to get to the bottom of the problem. For them, its about CYA for Cheney and co. — because that is what is best for the GOP. Thus, immunity for the corporations is immunity for Cheney’s minions. And I’m not prepared to dole it out — they can pull Cheney et al in as third party defendants for all I care, but no one gets off the hook until we see what they have been doing.

Just sayin. Someone else indicated they thought it was “resolved”. Then BLAM, worpress hit me in the chops again.

I have been saying the same thing… there should be NO… No corporate influence on OUR government. why should there be? they can’t vote! thats why we need public funding for all campaigns.. Just think of how the political landscape would change….all the big money gone… K-street would disappear and we would get our government back so the Government could address those societal problems of our nation such as health care… poverty… education for all our kids from pre-k through fours of college… Now that would be an investment that would pay off in dividends beyond belief!!

My thoughts, too.

I keep asking myself–what are they afraid of? What and Who are holding something over their heads?

You know, if it’s affairs? I.don’t.care.

Teleco’s can defend themselves. Federal courts have closed sessions all the time. As an admirer of Sheldon’s, I have no idea why he would declare the teleco’s defenseless.

Think I qualified that with “hopefully,” but we’re still working on it in any case.

Yes, and the telecoms also had scads of paid legal counsel on retainer and in-house who were experts in just this sort of thing. Some of whom for some companies read the law and said “Where is your lawful warrant, as required by law?” So I have very little sympathy for the jump when Cheney says jump argument, either.

One can be very patient and kind and loving without biblical consultation. In fact, one might be prone to do some awful things by acting on biblical tenets. Deuteronomy 13-5 thru 10 provide evidence.

What is keeping the telecoms from continuing to spy on us? This is prolly not new. Maybe the telecoms are the real power in this country. They know everything about everybody. How do we disconnect? We need telecom police.

I wish it would stop raining.

The telecoms are obviously scared. You don’t think this WordPress problem is an accident do you :-) ?

Telco’s found it easier to go along to get along. They were afraid of the administration and the punishment they might have suffered by lack of cooperation. Quest is a company that did not play ball. Are they still in business?

Is the law so “fuzzy” in the area of privacy, which, is after all such a minor issue, (/snark) we must continue to be bombarded with phrases like “acted in good faith” “good corporate citizens” and, according to CHS, “Bertie Walnut’s said we could?”

Is that a defense? I am an idiot who broke a law I did not understand because some crooks said I could. By the way, as an environmentalist, I have been replacing divots for twelve years. I’m swell.

Can’t argue with that.
I wasn’t trying to proselitize.
I apologize if my comment was offensive to you or others.