Login Here
(Please welcome Sarah Posner, author of God's Profits: Faith, Fraud, and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters in the comments. As always, out of respect for our guest, please take comments on other subject back to the prior thread. Thanks! -- jh)
This book was hard for me to read.
In God's Profits, journalist Sarah Posner explores one of the less-well known branches of the conservative Christian movement in the US. If you've ever channel-surfed on a Sunday morning, you likely have seen the faces of the people this book explores. There's Joel Osteen, the CEO-ish looking preacher of the "prosperity gospel," whom Posner describes as having a "cotton-candy, feel-good, self-help style of preaching;" Word of Faith movement leaders like Rod Parsley, Kenneth Copeland, Paul Crouch, and others who preach a message that says in essence "no one would want to be a Christian if Christians were poor, so it must be God's will that Christians be rich;" and John Hagee and his "Christians United for Israel" [CUFI] crowd, who view supporting Israel as the way to bring about the second coming of Jesus. Throughout the preaching of these folks and others like them, there is the sense that if you just believe hard enough -- and give generously enough -- anything you wish for will come to you. Wealth, healing, victory over IslamoFascism . . . anything. And of course, if it doesn't come to you . . . well, you must not have enough faith. You need to believe harder, give even more . . .
As I said, this was a hard book for me to read.
I kept wanting to argue, not with Posner, but with the preachers she describes. As a pastor myself who follows the Christian right, some of this was familiar, some was brand new, and almost all of it was disturbing. "Have you ever really read the Bible?" I wanted to ask them. As Posner notes [pp. 43-44],
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus taught that God knows what you need before you ask for it. But the prosperity preachers, [critic Dan] McConnell charges, have distorted the word need to mean something beyond "necessity" and have failed to make "any distinction between a need and a want, and a want and a lust" for items such as new houses, fancy cars, and fine clothing. The fixation on wealth, McConnell argues, is "a carnal accomodation to the crass materialism of American culture." It serves not only to "rationalize the disparity between rich and poor. It actually degrades the poor, claiming that their poverty is a result of 'dishonoring' God."
Oh, I could go down that road for a long time taking on the preachers Posner describes. Where, in these ministries, is any of Jesus' concern for the poor, the hungry, those in need, the outcasts, the strangers, the foreigners?
But I digress. That's not why we're here.
We're here at the FDL Book Salon to talk with Sarah Posner, because of the other cast of characters that come in and out of the story she tells . . .
Perhaps the most intriguing aspect of God's Profits to me were the links between this segment of the Christian Right and the mainstream of the GOP. At times, the links are philosphical/theological: both focus on self-reliance, distrust of government, and extreme individualism. If someone is poor, the GOP views them as lazy while the Word of Faith crowd views them as faithless -- but both think that the poor are only poor by choice: "if the poor would just work/believe harder, then they wouldn't be poor." Both operate in a world of dualistic black-and-white choices: good or evil, with us or against us, secular and holy, etc. Both use the language of warfare to justify and promote their beliefs. Both operate with a hierarchical, Yertle-the-Turtle view of the world, in which those at the top are due unquestioning loyalty from those below. Leaders may be accountable to other leaders, but not to their followers and never to outsiders.
At other times, however, the links between the GOP and this branch of TheoCon preachers are quite specific and direct. The preachers try to bolster their prestige, their ministries, and their egos by flaunting their connections with and clout among political leaders in the GOP -- and the GOP leaders try to tap the money and the voters that these preachers can bring to their political campaigns. For instance, says Posner [pp. 110-111]:
[In 2007] Republican officials and candidates are seeking Hagee's ear. John McCain met Hagee for a private têtê-à-têtê in San Antonio, emerging with a virtual endorsement of his presidential candidacy and a $1000 contribution to his campaign. . . . Presidential hopefulls Sam Brownback and Duncan Hunter spoke at Nights to Honor Israel [a series of Hagee sponsored events] in South Carolina and Virginia. When Hagee was in Washington to deliver a well-received speech at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee conference in March 2007, he met with House Republican Whip Roy Blunt and other members of the House Republican leadership. Gingrich also collaborated with Hagee, delivering the keynote address at CUFI's 2007 Washington summit.
It's a Sunday, in the midst of a contentious presidential primary season. Sounds like a good time to talk politics and religion, especially of the Word of Faith variety. Please help me welcome author Sarah Posner to the FDL Book Salon, for what promises to be an enlightening discussion of God's Profits: Faith, Fraud, and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters.
Share This 
Spotlight
Sarah welcome to the Lake.
Welcome, Ms. Posner.
Hello and thanks Peterr.
Welcome, Sarah!
Thanks, Peterr, for that insightful introduction, and to everyone at FDL for hosting this discussion. I’m really looking forward to it.
Welcome to the Lake, Sarah Posner: Now that Huckabee seems to be out of the running for the presidency, what in your opinion will be the role of related preachers in the General Election?
While Huckabee, of all the GOP candidates, is tightest with the prosperity crowd (for example, he’s close with Kenneth Copeland, who appears frequently in God’s Profits and currently is one of the televangelists under investigation by Sen. Grassley), don’t doubt the need of the eventual GOP nominee to reach out to these figures. They have huge audiences and the GOP has long mined them for votes. As Peterr noted in his introduction, McCain has already cozied up with John Hagee, and last spring made an appearance on the Crouch’s Trinity Broadcasting Network — not even George W. Bush did that!
You’re quite welcome. After all the work you obviously put into writing the book, this intro is the least I can do.
Of the various folks you talk about in the book, how many of the preachers did you get to interview?
Welcome to the Lake Sarah,
thanks Bev and Peterr
Not one. They are extremely secretive and shun media attention unless they’re confident it’s going to be favorable. Remember also that they view media criticism (and in some cases, the media itself) as inspired by Satan.
The opening quote in the book is from Pslam 105:15: “touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.” They use this biblical verse to dispel their critics, and to warn their followers against questioning them.
To whom? Mammon? Aloha, Peterr and Sarah!
One item I did not put in the intro, though perhaps I should have, is that in the book you note that your own background is Jewish — which made the chapter on Hagee more than a little interesting.
That’s what I figured.
I have to say, though, that by going to their services/events and speaking with other participants there, you gave a good feel for how these folks present themselves, and how their flocks respond.
Welcome, Sarah! Hi, Peterr!
This is a fascinating topic, and one I have wondered about a lot. Here are a few questions:
(1) Do you think the preachers you talked to actually believe what they are telling their parishioners?
(2) How do the parishioners reconcile what they are being told–that praying will lead to real-world results like financial gain–with the patent reality that must smack them in the face very day–they’re not winning the lottery no matter how hard they pray?
Hi Sarah and Peterr - thanks for this discussion. I will be getting your book as soon as I can. This is something I’ve been very concerned about for a long time. The so-called ‘prosperity theology’ which says that if you are in God’s favor, you will be rewarded with earthly prosperity goes against, to my mind at least, everything that Jesus taught (and I am a liberal Christian.) I can see how neatly it dovetails with the Republican mantra of poverty=immorality. What’s so disturbing to me is that when the two groups (Christian Right and Big Business Republicans) got together in the late 70s with the Moral Majority, what happened was that the Business Right no longer needed to be bipartisan or dilute their own priorities in Congress - they could afford to shut out the Democrats becuse of that loyal Christian voter bloc.
At some point the differences in priorities between the two groups (abortion, gay marriage and legislating morality vs. unfettered business freedom) are going to have to clash when the Christian right doesn’t get what they want from Congress.
Does it look to you like the fissures in this unholy alliance are beginning to crack yet, or is it more solid than ever?
To the televangelist/preacher. The prosperity televangelists come out of a merger of the Word of Faith movement and Oral Roberts’ seed-faith theology. The Word of Faith movement major principles: revelation knowledge (rely on what God tells you, or signs from God, rather than on what you observe with your senses); positive confession (you can call things into existence for yourself if you have enough faith); identification (believers are “little gods”); and the divine right of believers to health and wealth.
Roberts’ seed faith theology: sow a seed (i.e., give your money to your preacher, a televangelist, or the Trinity Broadcasting Network) and you will reap a harvest (i.e., you will get a hundred or thousand-fold return on your investment). So the preachers pressure their followers to give, based in part on the notion that they will get an earthly return. Because they believe in the other principles, such as positive confession, and revelation knowledge, it doesn’t matter that this seems illogical or contrary to what you know about making money from living in the world around you — the preachers are seen as God’s “anointed” and believers are taught to give in order to get.
That, of course, results in the preachers living in the lap of luxury — which is why Sen. Grassley is investigating six televangelists.
Thanks, and I guess, that means sizable problems for Romney.
To blame the poor for not having enough faith is like blaming someone for being sick or disabled. The very antithesis of true Christian belief. I don’t know how they can read the same Bible and come up with this coldness towards their fellow human beings.
Thanks - I would have preferred the opportunity to talk to them, of course.
One thing I might add is I did interview Carlton Pearson extensively for the book — he’s a televangelist who might be known to readers for his renouncement of the concept of hell. He used to be close to a lot of these figures before his theological conversion and he offered many insights into their thinking.
Re (2)
Think of the parishioners as akin to a battered spouse. “I know my partner loves me. It must be my fault that my partner hits me. I’ve got to do better tomorrow . . .”
Sarah, thank you for being here.
I’m interested in your book. I have in-laws who belong to a SE Ohio church that seems like the ones you describe, although it’s not a megachurch.
They don’t have warm feelings for family members who are poor or disabled.
Poverty growing up (or a feeling of deprivation or not being in the ‘in crowd’)…do you think this might partially explain this whole deal?
A Mega Church in Louisville KY had perverted versus from Timothy to justify its ‘prosperity theology’. I found this shocking coming from the Beatitudes version of Christianity. It truly seems that their flocks do not actually read the bible.
I do think that the preachers really believe it — after all, it’s worked for them. Every Sunday, perhaps even every day, they get up and ask people for money, people give it to them, and they live in fancy mansions, drive luxury cars, and fly around in private jets.
As for your second question, that’s a very sad thing to watch. You see people who beat themselves up for not believing enough, or people who are fearful of going against God’s anointed. And, as you’ll see in the book, I interviewed people who became disenchanted precisely because they never did get rich or even middle class.
Not necessarily. One very prominent prosperity preacher, Paula White, was at a meeting of high-powered evangelicals that gathered with Romney before he announced his presidential bid. And one of his principal evangelical advisors, Jay Sekulow, is rumored to be providing legal advice to the televngelists under investigation by Grassley.
Perhaps we assume these people actually read the bible
Actually, Michael Scherer at Time has a story up on Romney:
There’s more at the link, and some embedded links in the text.
I agree with Sarah that the eventual nominee will want everyone from the Christian Right on board — but it will be quite a trick to pull that off, given the egos involved.
That’s precisely the criticism of both liberal and conservative Christians about the prosperity gospel — that it completely distorts Jesus’ teachings. But I’ve had followers of the prosperity gospel tell me that Jesus was a wealthy man, and who would want to be Christian if Christians were supposed to be poor?
The separation of the flock from their “savior” is a fascinating and frightening thing to watch.
They have gone from “Who would Jesus love” to “Which portfolio would your lord recommend.” It seems unsustainable.
Words fail.
Alicia, every election cycle it looks like it’s cracking, but they need each other (from a vote-counting perspective, anyway). There are more fissures showing up within the evangelical community this year, but that doesn’t mean the alliance is dead. I’ll be exploring this topic a lot more in my FundamentaList column this week at the Prospect (appears every Wednesday).
Francis of Assisi?
One aspect of my faith, the Baha’i faith, is the fact there are no ‘preachers’, we collectively gather and read verses from the Bible, Koran, Baghavad Gita, Baha’i literature, etc… It is a personal and collective experience…
For those who are interested, here’s a link to the FundamentaList archive.
I do think that a need to belong is a huge driver of people into these churches. People who are alone — either actually or emotionally — are especially vulnerable. In the book, there are many interviews with people about the reasons that drove them into these sorts of churches.
They do read it, but remember most of them don’t have theology degrees, or college degrees, and are ignorant of hermeneutics. They twist the words to comport with their theology. Thus every mention of the word “prosper” in the Bible to them means that God wants believers to be rich — going all the way back to God’s covenant with Abraham in Genesis.
welcome to the lake ms posner…. not only do they have many members they have very deep pockets to get repug message out…. poor parishinors dont really know where their “tithes and offerings” go…
This is a little off the topic of the prosperity gospel, but quickly, the salient thing this year for the religious right is finding the most electable candidate who pays lips service to their issues. The only one who’s been completely out of the question is Rudy. They don’t love McCain, and now that Thompson’s dropped out, I’m not surprised they’re getting behind Romney. They’ve got other issues with Huckabee (Peter put up the archive to the FundamentaList if you want more on this — I’m going to be sticking to the prosperity gospel issues here.)
Did any of them evince recognition of the real reason why they didn’t?
getting back to the televangelists under investigation…. is that still ongoing??
Margot, I may have mistakenly responded to your question via another person’s comment, but in any case you can write to me at tapthefundamentalist AT gmail DOT com if you want to talk more about your relatives’ church. But it’s true, for example, Rod Parsley says that poverty is evidence of a lack of faith in God.
Thanks - both to you and Sarah.
Yes, I think you’re going to start to see Jews critiquing the prosperity gospel for the same reasons many Christians do — that the purveyors of it twist sacred texts and traditions to generate more $$$.
That ain’t no good for keeping authoritarian followers in line!
Incidentally, I frequently ride my bike past a Baha’i temple (I don’t know if you call it that; if not, sorry) in San Clemente, CA.
Sarah (and Peterr): I know quite a few black evangelicals (highly educated and others) - could they break for Obama?
It does, yet it continues to thrive. Thousands of churches preach this gospel (not just in the U.S., but all over the world — I met someone from India, a former Hindu, who is a follower), and although many people become disenchanted and leave, many more fill empty pews.
While we very rarely attend any church (we did this morning; two churches, a Southern Baptist and a Catholic church) we do think of ourselves as believers in the Golden Rule. We like to think that Jesus was a progressive. Happy Sunday. ;0)
[I have a long list of disclosures for this comment. I’m personally acquainted with the Osteen family, although I haven’t been in touch with them in a few years. In fact, I owe a fairly significant personal debt of gratitude to Joel’s brother-in-law. That said, I’m a committed Christian with a very different view of Jesus’s teaching. You can think of me as a pacifistic social anarchist, if that helps.]
I haven’t read the book under discussion, but I’m pretty familiar with the cultural milieu under discussion. It’s really hard to unravel the cultural, political, social, and theological forces that have created this movement. If I put on my amateur social historian hat, I can argue that the roots of this movement go back to the dislocations caused by the rise of mass mobility. Most of the followers in this movement are people who have little or no social support structure. In fact, there are many similarities between the social conditions that brought about the rise of Hamas and the ones behind the rise of the Prosperity Gospel. Despite the obvious differences, the continuing strength of both groups is largely rooted in the social services they provide.
Christ was Jewish. And the Jews, Christians and Muslims revere Abraham. I believe.
Juslin raises a very important point that is critical to this whole discussion. Unlike non-religious non-profits, churches (and other houses of worship) do not have to file tax returns with the IRS. Therefore there is no public disclosure of how much goes in, and how much is taken out, and for what purpose. Many, many evangelical churches voluntarily disclose their finances to their congregants, either because they want to be transparent, or because they belong to the Evangelical Council on Financial Accountability (which was formed in the wake of the Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker scandal). But the prosperity churches do not have any disclosure. A change in the tax laws would go a long way towards exposing this — but of course there would be intense political resistance to that.
From a theological perspective, these preachers teach that the tithe belongs to God. Therefore it’s none of your business what happens to it.
Thanks, Sarah. I see where you answered my question (with regard to the need for belonging). I definitely think that’s a big part of it.
I enjoy Olsteen’s upbeat message. We watch him and his wife regularly.
Center of Worship, where we gather for all types of activities, besides worship… Local Spiritual Assemblies are elected and handle the business aspects…
Welcome Sarah, thanks so much for being here. The compassion you show for the people who are being exploited in these situations is admirable and I think often overlooked when the topic of televangelists comes up.
Yes, but they will describe, in essence, being under a spell, or being “brainwashed” (a word one person I met recently used). Now they see (and truly resent having given so much money to the pastor) but didn’t see it while they were heavily involved.
It is. Grassley’s press release from last November announcing the investigation is here [pdf]. One month later, he gave an update [pdf] as to who has and has not complied with his request for information. Where it goes from here is still up in the air, but Grassley does not appear to be letting go of it.
as a former member of this type of ministry - i can agree with your thoughts… plus they support the pro-life movement and that draws in people especially but not all african-americans and they in turn get to hear many pro conservative sermons
“Mitt Romney has acknowledged that Mormonism is not a Christian faith,”
When was this supposed to have happened? Having grown up mormon, I didn’t know anyone who thought anything but that we were christian. If Mitt has made such “acknowledgements” it would be remarkable. I have long thought that the evangelicals would have to get over their reservations about Mitt because, on paper at least, he is clearly the best candidate to keep the corporate and “values voter” coalition alive.
Thanks, Jane. I think a lot of people’s reaction is, well, anyone so stupid to give their money to a televangelist deserves what they get (or don’t get). But a lot of the people have been failed — by other churches, by their families, by living in suburbia with lack of community, by a host of things. They are looking for affirmation, for belonging, and hoping against hope that an economic system stacked against them can be overcome by something they believe is very powerful: their faith. They are truly being taken advantage of.
You know, you don’t really need religion to live a good life. For all I know there may be atheists in heaven. I hope so. It will, if I’m lucky, make for some perhaps rather good discusions around the chess board later. After I am “gone”.
The covenant to Abraham extends throughout the Major Faiths, all the key figures are direct descendants of him, however, Joseph Smith fails that test…
I worked with his brother many years ago, he was/is a good person and an excellent surgeon. I hadn’t seen him for a few years and ran into him at a book store. Asked how things were, said he had quit practice and joined the “family business”..a rather odd way of putting it, I thought.
Grassley indeed is continuing the pressure on the televangelists, despite intense pushback from the religious community (even from people not sympathetic to the prosperity gospel). Despite Grassley’s repeated statements that he is only interested in potential violations of the tax laws (i.e., use of tax-exempt donor funds to fund personal luxuries), there is a chicken little sort of response that this will lead to government intrusion into church affairs.
Grassley has no subpoena power, remember.
This is an election year, remember.
It will be a slow road.
We watch Mr. Osteen. But I had not heard that about his brother. I think Paul is his name?
Let’s abolish the tax free status for churches!
As a former member of an evangelical church, thank you for writing this. I was lucky in that the church I attended did participate in the Evangelical Council on Financial Accountability.
However, I did not like the vote this way handouts that were handed out with the service program. I left that church when the preacher started talking about how I would not a good Christian if I did not vote in accordance with his views. Not the bible’s views. His.
I’m not a fan of personality cults and that seems to be where so many evangelical churches are - the person preaching is more important than the message.
Did you find that also, Ma’am, or was mine just an isolated event?
That would be in conflict with LDS doctrine. The LDS church is the only Christian church..all other are apostates. IIRC
That’s a complicated question! Sure, they could. That will definitely be an interesting thing to watch this year. The GOP has been working hard to get those votes, of course.
His brother Justin designs compensation packages for televangelists.
The fundamental theological problem with this movement is that it is founded almost completely on “proof-texting”. That’s where you take small bits of text (in this case verses from the Bible) scattered throughout a literary corpus and weave them together to support a preconceived point of view. With a work as large as the Bible (which means the Protestant Christian Version usually in the KJV translation), you can “prove” just about anything.
Hagee, for our money, is just about the worst of the lot.
I have seen that quite a bit.
Exactly. It’s truly an amazing thing to watch.
Aren’t the tax laws the only viable means to chastise or punish the ‘Churches’, such as when the Preachers preach politics from the Pulpit…?
Sarah, in reading the book, I kept going back in my head to David Kuo’s book “Tempting Faith: an Inside Story of Political Seduction,” where he described Karl Rove and others as publicly pandering to various evangelical leaders but privately mocking them.
I’m more familiar with Dobson, Ralph Reed, Falwell, and that branch of the TheoCons, and I can’t quite see Rove mocking any of them. Hagee, Parsley, Copeland, and some of the prosperity preachers, on the other hand . . . let’s just say I can hear Rove making the kind of comment you described at 57.
Did you get any sense of this as you poked around the political (not religious) leaders in your book?
You are popping my bubble about Joel Osteen. But that’s okay. We can take it. Perhaps I have been wrong about the Osteens.
Right, their tax-exempt status prevents them (supposedly) from endorsing political candidates from the pulpit, or otherwise using their church’s resources to endorse or campaign for a candidate. But as we’ve seen this year, they slip into a phone booth, so to speak, and emerge a “private citizen” and endorse away. The reality is that no church has had its tax-exempt status revoked for such activity (except one, temporarily), and this year many of them are really pushing the envelope.
Paul..when I worked with him he was a good person..I assumed he hasn’t changed.
Welcome, Sarah! This is a tough topic to sort out.
It’s been around forever. The Catholic Church built a rich, powerful empire on religion. They selected the books that could go into the Bible, separated out as Holy Men spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. All the other books that didn’t support their empire were declared heretic writings and punishable by death. Priests told the people what was in the Bible to ensure people didn’t think for themselves. And the church got richer and richer.
The first “born agains”, the Puritans did the same thing as the modern preachers - they connected wealth with being chosen by god. They even took property away from anyone who disagreed with them. They slaughtered “savages” as their holy right to take their land because they were god’s chosen.
Religion has a long violent history and as long as there is organized religion, I fear their will be terrible violence and injustices.
This is so timely since yesterday I received another message from my southern relatives on god, Jesus, the flag and war. Yes, war is holy. Money is good. God gave the Earth to man to do with as he pleases. Onward Christian soldiers.
If preacherman evokes Jesus, not his teachings, anything he says comes from god. What Dark Age am I living in? It is getting darker and darker. Money is power. The Right Wing comes from god. And they are tax exempt.
True, are we supposed to turn the other cheek, or, seek an eye for an eye…?
On of Huckabee’s BFF’s.
I did interview a Rove subordinate, whose job was outreach to the black evangelists, and she confirmed that the outreach was all about getting votes. These guys have huge audiences, and were therefore worth cultivating for that purpose alone. She did say, however, that she did not recall the pros or cons of the prosperity gospel being discussed.
For the moment we are sticking with Mr. Osteen.
Feel Good Religion. Why not?! If it helps blot out the fact that you as a Christian have a responsibility to others and gets rid of your guilt trip then so much the better.
I am a very non-practicing Catholic, have been for a long time. My personal belief is it is what you do and how you treat others that counts and not necessarily what you believe.
The Hucksters described are a more sophiticated version of the TV peachers of the past. Give me money of be saved, get on the Heaven Express.
the prosperity doctrine pretty much benefits the pastor and his favorites… offerings are often raised for for community outreach which hides the real reason for the money raised…. these are massive slush funds for pastors to loot imo…. as i haven’t read the book as yet i’m kinda familiar with the contents
What are we to say or think about President Carter in the context of this discussion?
… and fly around in private jets
The number of preachers who fly around in private jets is probably a lot higher than most of us would guess … a lot of these guys, you never heard of them unless you live in the same city. As someone of my acquaintance once said, “What is it with all these preachers and their jets? Are you closer to God at thirty thousand feet?”
Wasn’t it because the Preacher was advocating for liberal candidates…? How blasphemous…!
And then there’s Ralph Reed.
The LDS church is the only Christian church..all other are apostates.
“Apostates” is such a strong word. The Mormon view is sort of similar to Ann Coulter’s view of Jews: they are un-perfected not-yet-Mormons.
Chris Lehman had a good piece about Osteen on Slate recently.
Yep, they’re doing the same thing with right wing blogs. Freepers at the White House. They are smart about these things.
When I first heard about blogs they seemed like they presented a liberal organizing opportunity that could potentially work the way churches worked. I don’t know why this has never occurred to Democrats but many obvious things seem to elude them.
Let’s just say that Habitat for Humanity doesn’t come up much in the Prosperity Gospel crowd.
Also, when Hagee & Co. view anyone working for peaceful coexistence in the Middle East as working against the will of God (Israel can’t co-exist with the Palestinians, according to Hagee — it must dominate them), I think it’s safe to say that Carter wouldn’t be invited to share the stage with Hagee.
Thank you so much for being here, Ms. Posner. You said your personal background was Jewish. Are you perturbed by Rev. Hagee and his ilk’s “support” of Israel which seems to me to be only a way they think they can bring on Armageddon? Also, can you explain why Sen. Lieberman, an observant and I believe Orthodox Jew, went to speak at one of Hagee’s meetings? Thank you again for being here. Your book just moved up to the top of the “wish list/must have list.”
isn’t he a part of the abramoff scandal? yet he’s walking around free…. go figure ughhhh and if i’m not mistaken has been hired as an op-ed writer for some newspaper ughhhhhh again
And when we speak of orthodoxy, let’s please not leave out Jack Abramoff or George W. Bush.
That’s true, it’s not just the big names that have the jets, even people you’ve never heard of have them — just shows you how much money if flowing in and out of even the smaller outfits.
President Carter is a true Christian. His every action proves it.
Oh, yes.
I went to a Missionary Alliance church for a very short time, and the Sunday school classes were exhausting. Trying to prove that the use of one word in Genesis didn’t disprove a whole lot of other stuff, for an hour? Please.
Just leave my grandmother alone, please. She was perfectly happy being an Episcopalian…
The jets are also “proof” that the Prosperity Preacher is truly prosperous — thus, is truly blessed by God and worth listening to. “Sure,” says the parishioner, “I may not be wealthy yet, but look at him. I’ve just got to believe harder, and then I’ll get my wealth too.” The jet becomes the symbol of God’s blessing.
Blergh.
To say the least. Hagee called Jimmy