!

“Carville and Begala off my fucking TV” -Jane —ILU - So true!

Hi, Jane!

I just want to go sleep and wake up with the primaries over, so we can get down to vilifying whichever insane wackadoodle wingnut fucknozzle wriggles out of the clown car first.

Bullsye, as per usual.

Many thanks.

ah thank you Jane- the anti-pundit. My antitdote to what ails us all on MSM….

agree completely about wanting to see a new set of Demo idea mavens and that the Clinton’s will offer some of the folks we love to hate, but they also had some good people, too. His supreme court picks were first rate, as well.
Just saw OB give a speech in SC and yes he is very much able to defend himself and not the “victim” of bullying clinton’s, as the media meme goes.

It shouldn’t have taken them having to repeatedly point out the obvious conflict of interest for it to happen, but it’s a friggin’ mitzvah.

LOL
Thank you! Yes it is.

Jane writes:

Jon Chait writes that Bubba’s “affair with Monica Lewinsky jeopardized the whole progressive project for momentary pleasure.” I’m awaiting the smug, insufferable essay on how JFK risked the Bay of Pigs ‘cos he couldn’t keep his pants zipped, because I’m pretty sure he’s probably the only other politician who ever had that problem.

Way too many politicians have “zipper problems.” How else to explain the Beltway view of Henry Kissinger as a “stud.” (shudders)

Thanks Jane. But what is the logic of Brack avoiding the votes in a heavily Democratic district that almost assuredly would never make an issue of his positions? In fact, I wouldn’t think that it would be an issue for Statewide office in Illinois.

So why did Obama “need cover”? Was he THAT ambitious? But doesn’t he have other pro-Life attachments that could be used against him? What’s the logic here? Did he miss other votes at the times he missed these?

It’s just damn odd.

And you are absolutely correct on Bill’s lame efforts to attempt to assert that Obama wasn’t opposed to the Iraq War from the beginning.

The excuse, threadbare as it was, is not that Obama was getting cover — it’s that he was giving it. Doesn’t make much more sense, but that’s what it is.

It is the Illinois chapter of Planned Parenthood that has been defending Obama’s “present” votes as part of their strategy, just to clarify. They also said it worked really well. Not sure if that means much, but in comparing to the CT Lamont race, and the difference between the national and local offices of Planned Parenthood. it seems like a good distinction to make.

Also, how about Obama’s shunning of Pox Newz? He first started that a year ago now. Then refusing their debates along with Edwards, and the recent brush-off of Bill O’Vibrator. Obama has done a lot to change the game in BigMedia. He’s living up to the “Change” theme certainly in this regard so far.

when the time is right the clinton camp will bring it. it’s not the 5hr
working relationship obama claims it to be. i’d say good luck with that.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....;cset=true

Whistling Past Dixie
and that’s the truth.

Just to be clear: This is not meant in any way as a complaint about the attention paid here at FDL to primary campaign strategy and the “horse race”. In fact, I have been a critic here in the comments of those who barge in and complain that there is no discussion of “the issues”.

I had forgotten about the Clinton campaigners, so Bill has been channeling the ragin Cajun, eh?
The thing is this: it is not to anyone’s credit to be compared with Lee Atwater, and my take is that Obama is not doing well in responding because he never can take it to a new level, is stuck in “your mama”; he seems weak and defensive to me.
You have promoted a turn and attack mode of responding, but your mama is not much an attack–”he’s lying about me” is pretty whiney. Obama’s deal to be credible has to be one in which he jiu-jitsu’s ad hominem attacks in such a way that he reminds people of the actual stakes at hand and how/why he will address them. As a woman I recently spoke with asserted, he appears to lack the spirit it will take, and that’s in my opinion because everyone is running to protect him, but because he doesn’t know how to integrate what is happening to what makes him an appealing candidate.
This who stimulus business (let’s five another sawbuck to the poor, and more of our treasury to business–that’ll solve the problem) and the FISA business–I want realtime action. I’m turned off by the direction the Dems have taken because it’s a direction in lieu of a direction.

I understand their argument, I just don’t buy it and it smacks of ex-post-facto covering for a candidate they are trying to ingratiate themselves with, something they do a lot on both the national and the local level.

And it was CT PP that told their membership to thank Lieberman, national NARAL. It’s a systemic problem.

Since you mentioned Samantha Power this piece over at EP is a good read and mentions Power.

DLC.
DemocraticLoathsomeCorporatist.

Somewhere (Kos blog?) I read about Andrew Young’s(a Bill Clinton supporter) comment to the effect that Bill loves blacks and probably has known more black women in his life than Obama. If Young really said this - Wow.

Having only lived in IL for 3 years, I’m not even close to understanding our state legislature but I have gotten numerous notes from IL bloggers saying the present votes were requested by IL Planned Parenthood and cheered on by them. I don’t understand how that works … at all but it is worth noting.

Still Obama has been less than feisty in the Senate and I prefer feisty.

At the same time, I really dislike the racial divide the Clinton campaign is using … and I think we will pay for that tactic for many years.

All considered, give me Alan Grayson from today’s Blue America and more like him! we sure aren’t getting that quality in our presidential choices so we really need to build the team for the day we do!

We are not hearing much about the affluent, upscale, well-educated whites who have been with Obama elsewhere. But I guess this being the South, such people are relatively scarce?

Huh? You mean that racist folks who were Pro-Choice would suddenly become “Anti-Abortionists” in his district if they learned that Barack Obama was supporting Choice? Yeah, that must be it.

But I still can’t figure out the argument made from the folks saying he needed to hide this in his record. Any group wanting to attack him on this issue would simply have to use his wife as their barometer.

I liked Andy Young’s recent insightful pronouncement that he’s sure Bill Clinton has “gone with more black women” than Obama. There’s a slogan for the ages.

Yeesh…thanks for the clarification. Systemic indeed.

Reminds me of why the Blue America races are probably the most important for us in the Netroots. This is where we have the most impact. We’ve made progress in influencing Presidential races, but this primary season shows we still have a ways to go. The previous thread with Alan Grayson is a good example of the kind of candidate we can definitely get to Warshington.

http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/18665

MSNBC yammering on about some dust up between McCain and Romney. What’s this about?

Democrats Loathing Citizens

He did … then tried to say it was just funnin’

Not the quality of campaign discourse we need, eh?

I think Obama is faced with a very difficult campaign problem … he needs to find the tone to slap down the smears without appearing whiny or reinforcing a black v white theme. I am very glad when he goes at it from the “distortion” angle … this could be much nastier if he chose a differnt course.

And I’d like to see John Edwards stepping up more with the adult theme - and would have loved seeing him actually take on the FISA issue … he had a chance to elevate an important issue and the overall discourse at the same time and he chose not to …

Interesting piece about Michelle Obama in the latest (okay, I’m behind on my reading, so maybe it’s last week’s) “Newsweek”.

Predictions on SC? I say Obama 40, Clinton 30, Edwards 30. Nice, even numbers for y’all to pick at.

Your quote is probably closer than mine. Still Wow. And Young is a Clinton supporter!

“No one could have foreseen that Carville and Begala were intimately connected to the Clintons.”

Democratscorporatist Loathing Citizens

fixed?

If Young did say that, it further illustrates why I think the Obama phenomenon is more of a generational shift, rather than race-based (whatever the hell that means). The BigMedia is desperately trying to make it about race and gender, but the numbers haven’t been backing that up so far in Iowa/NH/Nevada.

Yes. And even if he was funnin - there are some things/contexts one just don’t think of “funnin” about. The “joke” itself is noteworthy.

I don’t usually chime in with comments but, as a SC voter, I want to share a couple of thoughts with you. 1) I was sufficiently ticked off at the media hype about “white voters” and Obama, that it pushed me (a white woman) to vote for him. 2) I probably would have voted for Edwards otherwise, just because he seems slightly more progressive than the others, but certainly did not think that Bill and Hillary were way out of line. Our polling place was very busy and I look forward to casting my vote for any of them in November, even though the sorry Rupublicans will doubtless carry this state. Thank you Jane and Christy et al for continuing to fight the good fight.

Apparently yet another strong Democratic turnout in the South Carolina Primaries…apparently double that of the Republicans. That bodes well in the General Election and may mean that many more Democratics than expected may end up winning than expected. People are fired up for positive change.

I tend to get misty eyed when I see people going out to vote…maybe it’s because I’ve lived and visited in places where people never get a chance to, or have had the right taken away.

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/.....a_politics "> Voting in Rural South Carolina

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/.....a_politics ">Voting In the Democratic Primay- S. Carolina

Polling in S. Carolina

Siun: Do you have your own blog space?

It’s about who is more committed to the pathetic surge. It’s about who can say we “can’t lose” in Iraq but won’t define what is winning. It’s about chickenhawk Romney keeping his five sons on American soil. We’ve lost sixty ways to Christmas, billions of dollars, and thousands of dead bodies in Iraq.

It’s about a surge whose only serious option is staying in Iraq forever.

Thanks for the insight!

sure :)

Jane: Not only do the pundits disappear JFK’s affairs (and those of pretty much every pol who isn’t a living and active Democrat), but they seem to have utterly forgot the name of Jennifer Fitzgerald. You know, Bush the Elder’s “good friend” and “office wife”?

DinosLickingCheney

Generational yes, and “change,” - i.e. sick of people who are subverting the progressive agenda to fund/support their own interests (Rahm), religious concerns (Lieberman, Schumer), and personal failings (B. Clinton)

Jane,
Thank you for the great post. When I comment here I hardly ever comment intellectually, I am not one, I have always operated right or wrong from my heart. I don’t know who it is that I will vote for but I do know in the core of my being that Hillary is the absolute wrong choice, not because she is a woman, but because she will further distance our party from the place it should occupy and send it down the river of corporate governance which is a grave mistake big enough to destroy our country in the end, and the inevitable inclusion of Bill does no one one any good. One of the beautiful results of this campaign Is thinking of Barak Obama as president without the b word coming into play, at least in my personal world, and that gives me hope because we are all in this together and color and gender mean nothing. And If he is the candidate, I think I lean that way, we are going to have to band together like brothers and sisters big time, the opposition is going to rip him apart.
Keyboard commando’s man your keys, together we will kick some serious butt
and if we get knocked down one can lift the other, as you have done for me when I wanted to quit.
Oh say can you see
By the dawns early light
Fingers enjoining the fight…sorry that was bad. the devil made me do it.(laughing

Andrew Young also said recently that “Hillary Clinton is as black as Obama“. Kamp Klinton is full of aging hacks like him who were once upon a time principled and relevant like they once were. They have become a cult of power-hungry dinosaurs who will indiscriminately trample everyone who gets in their way. Time to make them extinct!

We need to push the ”Hillary is McCain’s BFF” story, especially to the Florida Thugs. Go….Mittens!!!

And Bush’s back door “wife”- Gannon

Thanks for sharing “on the ground” info! Any other thoughts about what’s going on in SC will be eagerly accepted!!

So true.

Thanks for telling us about your polling place. I’m encouraged that it was busy — that bodes well, I hope, for November.

If I heard it right, McCain painted Romney as supporting an Iraq withdrawal date and Romney, fearing the surrender monkey label, protested. Basically two guys competing for who is the most wrong.

Time to make them extinct!

Where’s an asteroid when you need one?

Apparently yet another strong Democratic turnout in the South Carolina Primaries…apparently double that of the Republicans.

That can’t be right. 443,203 people voted in the Republican SC primary and the state went 71% for Bush in 2004. Your links aren’t working for me. Can you repost them?

Don’t think he meant it in the “Biblical Sense” IF he said it. Doiesn’t sound like something that Andy Young would say. Maybe someone is “interpreting” something else that was said.

Hi Jane.

I am tired of both Clinton and Obama already. Both Clintons actually.

If I heard it right, McCain painted Romney as supporting an Iraq withdrawal date and Romney, fearing the surrender monkey label, protested. Basically two guys competing for who is the most wrong.

Ha! That is so sweet! Each of them screaming “IRAQ 4 EVER!” louder than the other one. Great material in there for campaign commercials in the general election.

Funny you should say that…they just reported that a spy satellite that might have missiles on it and probably has hazardous materials, has lost power, and they’ve lost control of it, and it will hit somewhere on earth in late February.

i agree, no question. at andover they called him bendover.

I don’t understand. Edwards is more progressive which you like but you voted for Obama because you are angry with the media. Please explain.

That should have been a response to PhysioProf at #51…

It is exactly as you say it, Jane; it is the “[effing] hacks” that bothers me most about Hillary gaining the Whitehouse. Of course First Lad Bill will be instrumental in bringing back in all the regular old cronies that do the progressive movement little to no good.

But I’ve also had a hard time getting behind Obama. He seems to be a lot of hat and very few cattle.

Edwards? Maybe the same as Obama, but it seems to me his words contain more substance than Obama’s, or maybe that’s just me. Nevertheless come Feb 5 I’m voting for John Edwards, not that I really think it will make any difference. I’m fairly certain he has no chance of gaining the nomination but at least I’m still voting my conscience. Regardless, I’ll be voting come November for whichever Democrat gets the nod. At least progressives have more chance with the Democrats than the Rethugs. Ah, in theory, at least.

S. Carolina Rural Voters

S. Carolina Voters

Hi bonkers ..

I blog right hear every Sunday night …

Drop by!

Funny you should say that…they just reported that a spy satellite that might have missiles on it

I think they were asking if it could be safely shot down by a missile, not that the satellite has missiles on it. :)

Alan Grayson’s still responding in the previous thread. More and Better in ‘08!

Sharon - thanks for getting out and voting!

Let’s hope the turnout is big and energized - we’ll need a big turnout in November!

I saw the AP article on the satellite and the only thing about missiles was that it probably could not be shot down by them, not that there were missiles on the satellite.

edwards has a horrible progressive voting record.

Oh….but they did say it probably has hazardous materials on it/in it…

I view Hillary’s run as Bill Clinton’s crack at dictatorship.
When the rules governing Nevada caucus was not working in
their favor, they simply changed them. Bill Clinton’s behavior
in that room in Nevada during the voting, reminded me of the Republican staffers who burst into the room where the Florida recounts in 2000 were taking place and shut them down.
He will stop at nothing to gain back power even if it means
sacrificing his prestige and dignity.. No wonder Gore did not
want to run, because being attack by Republicans is one thing but
by Bill Clinton would have been very difficult to stomach.

From Bob Herbert’s column today in the NYT:

Here’s what Mr. Young, who is black and a former ambassador to the United Nations, had to say last month in an interview posted online: “Bill is every bit as black as Barack. He’s probably gone with more black women than Barack.”

“Gone with” means “in the Biblical sense” to me…

how so?

Where’s an asteroid when you need one?

There might be a teeny bit of collateral damage…

IMHO, that theory should be tested.

I am tired of both Clinton and Obama already. Both Clintons actually.

me too, TexB, me too.

In defense of Obama, just because some of us think Naral and PP have lost touch with their mission, it does not follow that Obama should have seen them as opposing pro-choice tactics and refused what they asked. If Planned Parenthood asks a pro-choice politician to support their tactics, I would think he or she would want a really good reason to reject them. Obama is pro-choice, and he has not tried to equivocate about it. In his case, he apparently thought he was showing his support by not casting a vote. You disagree with the tactic, but that doesn’t make him untruthful about why he did it. His explanation is here.

You tell’em, Jane. I am sick to death of the media narratives.
But, to be perfectly blunt, all of the campaign people, no matter *whose* campaign they’re from, sound like hacks to me. Joe Trippi makes my eyeballs shrivel and my ears bleed. Make him go away too.

Jane sez:

I’m awaiting the smug, insufferable essay on how JFK risked the Bay of Pigs ‘cos he couldn’t keep his pants zipped, because I’m pretty sure he’s probably the only other politician who ever had that problem.

Was that like the Cuban Missile Crisis??

One more observation from the peanut gallery.
I think Hillary as the candidate would polarize the people far more than Barak and it would surprise me not at all that those who can move and shake on the right would put effort into this.
Not an original thought I am sure

Yes, I often try to “tune in” for those. Was just wondering cuz you so often seem to handle any issue, not just Irak, so evenly and smartly in the comments here. Hope to read ya tomorrow!

What did Obama give up to Claire McCaskill to get her endorsement and help in MO –immigration is a big issue for her and she supports deportation.

What about Tom Daschle and how does he and his entire family get around the no lobbyist rule

There are plenty of hacks to go around and Obama has his share

but they did say it probably has hazardous materials on it/in it

That’s true. I couldn’t find any reference to it, but if it is a spy satellite, it might have a power source based on nuclear decay (the same kind of power sources that power some solar system space probes). Hopefully, they can figure out where this thing is going to land.

I can’t see a non-Biblical interpretation of Ambassador Young’s remark. Classy.

Minor technicality.

I have ceased caring who sleeps together and how often.

I think the views of local planned parenthood are much more meaningful than national. My local is strong, loaded with good people and with strong outreach to younger people. National is better than NARAL, but my money goes to local, and when national calls, I tell them I’ll give to them when they measure up to my local.

Can we make suggestions? There’s a pig farm in Crawford that could benefit from a spy satellite.

And a lot of it will probably burn up as it enters the atmosphere too…

I’m wondering how Edwards will do today.

Re what it took to get McCaskill to support Obama, I think I know. I have a friend who worked for several of her campaigns and knows her. He says that the Missouri legislative leaders did some polling that showed if Clinton was the nominee, a bunch of rural state Democratic candidates would lose. It scared them. Her endorsement makes sense from that standpoint alone.

I may have been mistaking some early absentee ballotr returns in a few precincts with being more indicative than the actual voting Statewide. There is a comment in one of the stiories below that absentee returns in his precincts for Democrats were twice that of Republicans.

Here are a couple of more muted projections about todays possible turnout.

Democratic Turnout Projected to Be High

S. Carolina Primary Could Set Record

And you are absolutely correct on Bill’s lame efforts to attempt to assert that Obama wasn’t opposed to the Iraq War from the beginning.

What? Bill Clinton questioned his voting record on Iraq.

As far as the pundits saying Obama must do well w/ Whites in SC…..
oh, man. That’s why since comming back from my sabbatical awy from the campaigns, I’ve stuck mostly with the local stuff -which there’s alot of ’cause there’s a primary Tuesday. it’s like goin’ in the ocean when it’s cold- a little at a time. That’s how I have to deal with the msm.

Agreed; the theory does need to be tested. I sadly suspect the theory may not hold much water in fact.

I’m really getting tired of politics and politicians. It seems that few, if any, are not all crooks and liars at the end of the day.

listening to randi rhodes the other day and she went through all 3 voting records. he voted for the bankruptcy bill. he voted for the war. i’ll find the info and post it tex.

I would like to see a pure process as much as anyone. I would like to see pubic funding and campaign ads free on broadcast TV in exchange for their licenses.
But right now, politics aint beanbag and if you can’t take the heat and sling it, you had better stay home. You have to expect the Clintons to fight for the nomination. You have to expect OB and Edwards to do the same. It is a fantasy to look for some smiling and happy opponents in the primary. They are in this for real and would we even want a Demo candidate who didnt know how to deflect it and sling it?
You need to get over Bill being Bill. Obama can defend himself, and when the press bothers to show him on the stump rather than whining that he is being race baited, he does just fine.

Just the phrasing of it seemed to be sort of “in joke.” Again, what it did was to remind everyone about who/what Bill was/is.

I, too, have been taken aback that the pundits absolutely dismiss the fact that Obama totally crushed in Iowa and did incredibly well in New Hampshire, both states not exactly known for their diversity. The press keeps spinning this thing as if Obama is being rejected by all whites if he somehow doesn’t get a good chunk of whites in SC. And they somehow assume that if he’s the nominee that white Democrats just won’t vote for him or something.

Odd.

For future reference, here’s a link you can click on when results become available in about 2 hours:

http://www.scvotes.org/

Great suggestion! Those folks LOVE them some spying. They’d probably find a use for it.

MSNBC…Russert….black…white…black…white…STFU

Oh, that’s where I had read it. Even more wow. By the way, I also think it was a Young attempt at an Obama putdown - i.e. that he is nerdy, uncool, one of these old fashioned sick by your woman men.

“John will win delegates”

That’s what his e-mails say. I liked them better when they were delusional and talked about winning primaries.

They are in the coronation process of giving the crown to Hillary, a very divisive weapon in their favor.

Thanks for that link! I was scrounging around trying to find something like that and hey-presto, there you were. Thanks again.

Excellent. Thanks. I’ll be watching the turnout closely.

South Carolina Democrats aren’t going to make a difference to us in November: the state will go GOP for sure and re-elect Lindsey Graham as well. So why are we letting the media make it a make-or-break state for anybody’s candidacy? It’s ridiculous.

His voting record isn’t the best but in my view, he’s still talkin’ about more of the things that need to be talked about than the other 2. Now, maybe in view of his voting record, I’m supposed to think he’s bullshitting now. I just don’t.

, because I’m pretty sure he’s probably the only other politician who ever had that problem.
May I say that I just adore the ham, ham, hamsher humor.
I can’t really call it snark, ’cause it’s not mean spirited.
And, it doesn’t have the cruelty of the generic brand of sarcasm.
Just love it.

Okay, to describe something accurate you need to be accurate, even if it’s scatalogical. Will Democrats elect a change candidate? Place your vote.

http://prouddemocrat.dailykos.com/

IMHO Hillary has been acclaimed as the nominee by the MSM since, well, forever because they don’t particularly want a Democrat in the White House and think she’s the girl to lose it. For what it’s worth, everybody I’ve talked to down here, Democrat or Republican, is vociferously opposed to her and convinced she would lose. That being said, if she is the nominee I’ll vote for her because she’s better than, to quote PhysioProf @3, “whichever insane wackadoodle wingnut fucknozzle wriggles out of the clown car first” on the other side.