Living in WV and knowing the state of our party ground game from 2004 (abysmal doesn’t begin to describe it…), a "building political muscle from scratch" concept is very appealing. Where the Democratic party muscle and infrastructure has atrophied, this is going to be necessary work well before November. It’s something that Howard Dean and other party stalwarts have been working on — to varying degrees of success — with the 50 State Strategy and beyond.
Energy from the electorate, it seems to me, starts with candidates who pay attention to the issues that matter to all of us. Don’t just give them lip service, but actually stand up, do the work and LEAD. They can start with the rule of law — and FISA. That would energize me, I can tell you that.
But beyond particular issues, the behind-the-scenes organization among the campaigns offers a peek at where each of them are finding their strengths — and weaknesses — with their ground games. From the WSJ:
In early voting states such as Iowa and New Hampshire, campaigns use rallies and personal appearances to get votes. Now, the nominating races have moved to bigger states, including much of the South. Candidates here rely on endorsements from powerful politicians and preachers. It is a tradition that has evolved since the 1960s to garner support among poor blacks who look to their preachers for both spiritual and political guidance. And it is the way Mrs. Clinton, like countless Democratic politicians before her, is running her campaign in South Carolina.
Mr. Obama, in contrast, is trying something many observers say has never been done here: He is circumventing entrenched local leadership and building a political machine from scratch. His staff consists largely of community organizers — many from out of state or with no political experience — who are assembling an army of volunteers. It is a strategy often used by labor organizations and in neighborhood and town politics….
Meanwhile, as Gene Robinson points out today, the Edwards campaign has beeing giving voice to those folks in America who are too often voiceless, without the ability to hire mouthpieces in the halls of power. This is important — for our country and the Democratic party — because these folks are the backbone this country and we owe them more respect than they have gotten during the Bush years.
Which will work? Guess we’ll see.
Obama’s campaign is energizing the youth vote and creating a new structural paradigm framework. But is this based solely on an Obama "cult of personality" — which will evaporate if he does not win the nomination? Or is this a more long-term base of support that can be built on a need for change from the current political failures of the Bush Administration and their various Republican surrogates? Is this a progressive tide, or merely an Obama one?
What about the Clinton energy for a lot of women around the country? Or not, frankly, because the numbers are divided on this. Or party stalwarts attracted to experience and a steady hand inside the tempest that is the Beltway? Does that accrue to all of us, including progressives, or is it Clinton-centric? The same for Edwards, whose populist message hits a lot of folks square in the heart and the gut — something that has been sorely missing from the Democratic party and it’s consultant-centric blandness the last few years. Can we all learn from his gifts of policy for everyone and storytelling on the stump?
How can we build on this to reach single moms? Single women, who are far too often ignored altogether? Women of all ages and interests — we make up half the electorate, and we deserve more than lip service every four years. How do we best do this?
What about a racial divide? Pam Spaulding has spoken at length about racial issues from her African-American perspective, and today the WaPo had some fantastic thoughts on Latino issues from Marcela Sanchez. Just two voices among the many in a chorus of Americans asking that we all do better, be better — and live up to our promise of a "more perfect union" for all Americans. Conversations well worth having at length, not based on how we can further divide, but on how we best move forward together. Would that more of that were occurring at the moment.
Could we have more of this type of clear, concise progressive response to wingnut framing? Good on John Edwards. (And shame on Hillary Clinton for using GOP "trial lawyer" framing.) And beyond that, more discussion on the very solid ground of liberal, inclusive values versus the divisive nastiness of Republican governance, wherein cronyism and disrespect for the rule of law have become commonplace. How do we move the nation forward together while mending so many deliberately plotted rifts?
Some combination of the old and new paradigms needs to be combined into a coherent whole by the general election. But will the old party lions pay attention to the younger set when it comes to more internet savvy organizing? Rapid response? Energizing and turning out voters in larger numbers?
For those of you who are working with your state party groups or with other organizations like DFA, what is being done now in your area to register voters? For the primary, if you haven’t had one yet? Have you started talking about organization, ground game questions and other infrastructure issues for November? Do tell…




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me?
ME!!!!
HOPE SO
is your intertube vacay over?
The party elders can be expectd to act like elders. Except without the wisdom. I mean, they still want organized labor to do the heavy GOTV work. But the people who did it are just like my Dad. Dead. They best start paying attention to the younger set but probably will when they’re old and I’m dead.
i made 10 of these today…i shall be busy faxing
http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/images/const.jpg
I ended it a few daze early – last weekend. I was supposed to go through Tuesday. But a poll came out here in Sunday’s paper and I just had to know what was going on. I haven’t tried to catch up on what I missed. Just got right back into it. I’m fglad Rudy’s goin’ down te terlit. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy. On te other hand, I’d like to see him win and really fuck things up on their side.
Obama is the only hope this country has.
The Clinton attack dogs will destroy us if elected again.
BushCo is producing new Democrats 24/7.
hahahahaha
slim pickings on the repuke side
But I do give Dean for at least committing to the 50 stae strategy. It ws a good idea and he knows it’s gonna take time in some places and won’t even show results in some places – other than making races tighter and forcing their people to spend money in places they wouldn’t otherwise. It’s a good idea but i just worry that too many of the peope they’re recruiting to run aren’t as blue as they should be.
So would that be a vote for “Obama-centric” support that doesn’t accrue to the Democratic party or progressive movement? I’ve really been trying to guage how things are running on all sides — and what I get is a lot of “my candidate is Jesus and yours is Satan” from supporters of one or the other candidate. But not a lot of movement-oriented discussion. Which was kind of where I was trying to go with this post.
Just curious on how this is working for everyone on this, not just you, btw…
just speak up everytime you go to the gas pump,amazing the hate that little pissant generates
Political muscle that hasn’t been discussed is the Hispanic vote. Rove had it figured out and the Republican “Brown haters” blew that out of the water. There was a discussion on NPR about Clinton’s strength in the Hispanic community and a point was brought up that hadn’t occurred to me. The Hispanic support is under the MSM “radar” because most Hispanics get there news and opinion for Hispanic radio, which none of the kewl people pay attention to.
dems are so far to the center right now,progressive,or populist is like commie pinko……the repugs with their media cohorts have pulled us so far to the right….or wrong so to speak
i like Edwards well thought out strategy He is a breadth of fresh air
Absolutely — and the immigrant hating that has been generated by the right-wing has really permeated a lot of Hispanic radio because a lot of legal immigrants and long-time American citizens have been dealing with some very nasty hate-filled invective as a result of it. It’s nauseating, frankly, how disgustingly nasty it has gotten. The WaPo piece I linked above talks about that from a personal standpoint — she’s of Columbian descent — and makes the point that this sort of hate-filled idiocy has real and very personal consequences for a lot of folks.
Well, I do think a lot of the supporters are for Obama, not the DNC in general. They want someone with integrity in the White House, and I am pretty sure most will not vote for HRC. For example, many have learned what happened in NH (see clip below)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVuMYKs8iJs
Think if it is a contest bteween HRC and McCain, they will vote for McCain, or a green party candidate or just stay at home…
another place i gauge public oppinion is the check out counter at the local grocery store…people are talking
Definitely. Mel Martinez was named Chair of RNC to get them into the Rethug tent. Mel’s gone (but he’s still my senator, damnit) and the Rethug candidates down here aren’t even going to Hispanic areas with the exception of Miami. Whatever their plan was, it’s been abandoned. We gotta get these people firmly on our side.
Are you aware that they did an audit of the NH vote and found the hand count to be of very little difference from the official tally? Please don’t throw out an old rumor without having something current and substantive to back it up. Thanks.
Nothing will change in California as a result
between Steve Westley for Obama and equally icky people for Clinton
It’s all about the campaign and no change in the party.
and unfortunately John Burton who could be a great progressive and is an Edwards supporter is tied up in a sexual harassment suit.
I wrote about this a couple of days ago, having also found a somewhat similar article in the Las Vegas Sun. Relevant quote:
If five counties that had no organization at all are holding conventions this year, that sounds very good.
I am at a complete loss in my neck of the woods. my Congressman Boozeman R-nutcase has no D challenger and My Senator Pryor D-Clintonlieberman has no challenger from either D or R’s.. but the Green Senate candidate Kennedy is good, but largely unknown of course.
So I send what money I am able and will do more for the Green through the next year.
This is why Blue America and supporting progressive candidates anywhere possible is so important to me.
It is not the vote count, it is the women’s pro-choice mailer. The clip from the NOW lady is pretty compelling
I guess if I listened to Spanish language radio, I would have a better idea about why very pro-Hillary sentiment exists. The farm workers union endorsement was a major thing among Hispanic voters.
Ooops, this is in response to the person who mentioned vote recounts – no, my post was regarding the feminist mailer in NH. As a woman, I found the clip compelling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVuMYKs8iJs
True, and it is steadily fed to us by the Horse Race centric MSM… I certainly consider all the Dem Prez Candies far superior in content and character…
Thanks for the info..I was wondering what the outcome was. Didn’t get much press did it.
I never bought that from the get-go. People pushin’ that story were sounding like a buncha Paultards.
Off topic:
Americans United for Change has a new video out:
http://www.americansunitedforc…..uttons%2F=
Does your Bush supporting Senator/Rep need a button?
I have a feeling that the economy is being artificially manipulated, bringing an excuse for “Fed” action, and an excuse to “fix” it with the “Stimulus”…
Now, that sort of thing can sway voters….and who gets presented as the person to save the “economy”?…a Republican, of course. It doesn’t help poor people, but the impression made is that somehow something is very, very wrong (fear mongering), but “we’ll fix it”….
Financially challenged people will eat it up for awhile, until they realize they still can’t pay their bills…believe me…this is an election tactic and well-timed, but the stimulus is nothing more than a mosquito on an elephant. The elephant is not the economy, it is the majority of the citizens who make the machine work.
What I like about Edwards is that he recognizes that people are poor. People who seem to have some things…are freaking poor people with some stuff. Most of America is not wealthy, and most of America is living beyond their means and check to check for a variety of reasons and are, therefore, very vulnerable to “economic manipulation”….
I just think something stinks….I don’t know what to do about it.
That is why it is the “economy stupid” thingy. What I am saying does not warrant a tin-foil hat either, it has been done forever.
Absolutely. Hate mongering….fear mongering..mass manipulation.
IIRC from what I read on the Union-Leader web site, HRC picked up a few more votes than others did after it was all done.
The WSJ, WaPo and other media seem to have nothing but praise for Obama. Am I the only one bothered by that?
And what’s up with Meredith Viera’s Trip to Bosnia question an Matt Lauer’s gotcha of Hillary? I’m NEVER going to watch them ever again. Viera especially was insufferably smug and nasty.
But as for Edwards, I’m really surprised that so many people in the blogosphere haven’t caught onto him yet. He is certainly saying everything people want to hear but I don’t believe for a moment that he wouldn’t tack to the right heavily after the nomination to appeal to red staters.
But I really want to know is if Obama is going to ask his young voters to vote for whoever the nominee is and will he get his community organizers to work for the nominee? Does he think it’s a serious campaign and pivot point for our country or does he think it’s a popularity contest?
Archpundit had a good dig-in on the facts on that mailer, as I recall. You can see it here.
Jeebus..Why are you being so nice to Mark? With his voting record, Clintonliegerman is a compliment. He is by far the worst Dem senator..he stands for nothing..at least Lieberman believes what he does is good for Is**el.
I’ll take door #2
“Obama’s campaign is energizing the youth vote and creating a new structural paradigm framework.” ~ Christy
Today I watched Dennis Kucinich give his speech and was surprised to see so many white haired people behind him! It was very interesting. You’d think as progressive as Dennis is the old fogies wouldn’t give Dennis the time of day.
*crickets*
NYT endorsed HRC, though. Had good things to say about her. Damn near glowing.
This old fogie likes him very much. You need to remember that us old fogies are the ones who had no rights until we really went to work and demanded them.
“I have a feeling that the economy is being artificially manipulated, bringing an excuse for “Fed” action, and an excuse to “fix” it with the “Stimulus”… ~ LS
Yep. It’s being manipulated. I also think the insiders here in America will spread rumors overseas to get them to panic. When our stock market plummets the investors see bargains galore!
A couple years ago there was a small 2-paragraph story in a Middle East newspaper that caused alarm over there, but not here. (I can’t remember what it was about, but it was found that the guy who wrote the article was an American and was connected to the Bush Regime)
i juswt hope that the real Clinton haters dont come out in droves…some people realllly carry a grudge
Well,
I should have written this better – I think a lot of folks in the Obama camp are not part of a ‘cult’, truly!
It is just that if HRC was winning fair and square, many would stay with the DNC. But the point is, she is not. She is using Rove tricks and lots of folks think it is not ok – for many, voting for a leader with integrity is more important than party affiliations.
The clip is from a feminist/former NOW leader who switched sides from being a strong HRC supporter to Obama after NH. Her story of why she did that is compelling and gets to the core of what attracts folks to the OBama campaign
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVuMYKs8iJs
PS – doesn’t she look like a bit like Julia Roberts…?
Roger that. They gave some very good reasons for their endorsement too. But it is curious that the rest of the media can’t glitter Obama’s generalities enough.
Not that it seems to be working.
I think Ewards could easily tack to the right on some things – like gay marriage for example – he’s “just not there yet.” But he’s against the war, pro-universal health coverage, knows how to make insuance companies cry uncle, He’d be fine. So, sure, i think he’d tack to the right. But not “heavily” as you say. I don’t think he has room – or much reason -to do that.
My goodness…separated at birth!
LOL You are so right! I’m no spring chicken (almost 40) either you know. ;-)
I guess I should have said I was pleasantly surprised to see the old timers standing behind him. Had my grandmother lived past the ripe ole age of 93, she would have backed him too, because she did not trust:
The Republican Party
The Bush Family
The Establishment
See? She would have been standing behind him too.
I am a member of the “voiceless” class. Democrats: cut the crap. Give us the goods. I have half a brain. I can tell when I’m being PR’d. I like Edwards.
One more thing. i remember Vierra when she was the spunky reporter on WCBS news. Who the hell is she now? I mean, i know what she does. But who the hell is she. I could care less what she says or does.
That’s where I get my info, too.
It’s good to see Obama doing this, applying his community organization skills on a larger scale. I give him credit for addressing a big concern, that being to help build a party, with a new approach. It will be interesting to see the results. Old problems never get solved without new solutions applied.
Isn’t it better for Obama’s future whether as the nominee in 2008 or a future year to get used to dealing with the smears and such, from whatever direction they come?
I would wager a lot of money I don’t have that if he does get the nomination the smears and lies thrown at him by the ‘thugs will make anything done by HRC seem to be mild jousting in comparison. He and all Obama supporters need to realize this or we’ll have Dukakis redux.
I like Obama and HRC almost equally.
You think people will vote for More Iraq? One hundred years more? Nah.
Bless you – I would like to be almost 40 again. I’d even like to be almost 60 – I’m 74 and if my generation had not yelled a lot women would not have the rights they have today.
you are a spring chicken lol…40 is the new 20…well maybe a summer chick
But Kay, that’s just normal 60s style liberalism.
But see MM, that’s the question, is Obama helping to develop a new paradigm for GOTV and activism within the Democratic Party or is it just to further his agenda and if he isn’t the nominee for November, oh well, too bad.
Because Clinton/Clark are raising money for his reelection and endorsing him in every way possible.
Yup, and when they can get the overseas market to plummet, our investors reap plenty of buy low opportunities. The “plunge” last weekend is now being blamed on a single French trader who lost billions…it had absolutely nothing to do with the housing bubble. They set up the rumourmill and then go boo!! and the whole world freaks out, and a bunch of people make a bunch of money (which they keep offshore, of course).
It is the lies about why people are suffering financially that need to come to light for the voters. Edwards is shining light on that when he goes after the corporations. That is the “education” that needs to get out there to the public who are looking for answers as to why their lives are so f’d up all the time, and they can never get out of the hole.
He’s got star quality, man.
Somewhat OfT:
When calling Richard Lugar’s office today, I spoke to a staffer who actually listened, and promised to get my message to the Senator (yeah I know). But here’s the thing – while I was talking, I could hear her typing up what I was saying. She was actually taking it down, and I think that the message *will* get through.
Lugar’s a decent guy and a possible stealth cross-over on the McConnell cloture vote Monday, imo. I realize that I may have been suckered, but I don’t think so. What the heck, it’s worth a shot (and if you call and hear typing – maybe keep it to one or two points).
Richard Lugar (D.C.) (202) 224-4814
that is all.
not too mention the move to bail out the bond insurers which is really why the market stabilized
Is that good or bad?
HRC and Obama. The most exciting and dynamic game to come down the pike since Tiddly Winks. I almost can’t stand it.
I was reading another post by Lukery about the Sibel Edmonds story earlier this evening…he had printed out a transcript of an interview with an ex-CIA guy….anyway, what I’m gonna say has nothing to do with the story…what the guy said that caught my eye, was that the “buzz in DC is that it is going to be McCain/Lieberman”….Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Just had to pass that on…
good on ya
Lets say not good. ;0)
He has got to get ahead of the Rezko story. It has been an “inside baseball” Chicago media story for a while but now it is starting to get National legs. Brian Ross at ABC keeps digging and now the LaTimes is pushing it. Someone in the Obama campaign needs to read Gene Lyons book about Whitewater to see what the Thugs can do with “nothing.” Also the Matt Lauer pic of the Clinton’s and Rezko may backfire on the Obama campaign.
I think people are not being idealistic, but realistic. They figure out that how poeple campaign is a good indication of how they will govern.
If the candidates show some integrity and are honest, then they probably will govern better…it is no coincidence that Bush ran a nasty campaign and was a poor leader…
So I guess for people who look for integrity, it is not wide-eyed idealism, it is a pragmatic decision.
And I honestly don’t think people vote on just one issue, such as the war. McCain may say 100 years in Iraq, but noone really knows what will happen in 2009 and beyond, or what HRC will actually do, vs, what she says she will do
I just read a scathing takedown of Chimpy in Pravda. Boy, they have his number.
-G
P.S. I’ll dig up a piece from Asiatimes that refers to the Palestinian/Gaza wall toppling as their “Boston tea party” moment.
The old order in the Middle East is struggling under the weight of their own rot and torpor.
and McCain hd melanoma…Pretzledent Jomentum…oy
Smells as fresh as a week old haddock in the sun.
-G
I do not recognize Hillary or Obama as agents of big time change. However, if one of these is the nominee, I will vote for him or her.
Since this primary seems to be getting nasty and dividing dems… do you see a Hill Obama or Obama Hill ticket as a means to pull the party together and attacj Bush’s non policies?
linky?
that suits me fine
Interesting, Christy. For eons presidential campaigns have been driven by expensive TV advertising, but increasingly the focus is shifting to field (Clinton’s much-discussed strength in New Hampshire). It will be very interesting to hear a post-election analysis of how the various field organizations operated, and which aspects were successful.
Very important lessons for progressives going forward.
Obama and Hillary are still in the sandbox duking it out over the Tonka toys. Rove likes it.
To heck with the DC buzz; I predicted that combo months ago right here at FDL.
Pravda quote:
“In short, George Bush’s speech in Abu Dhabi on 13th January is a puerile and shallow attempt by the worst President in US history to justify the unjustifiable, a desperate and misguided plea to remove the guilt from his shoulders, for making one of the most colossal mistakes in the history of Mankind and for insulting the very precepts upon which his nation was founded.”
-G
I read that and got sick. The Thugs are going to try and slip thru Congress “retro-active” immunity for Treason.
Watching the national Goopers destroy all the inroads the “pro-family” Rehtugs had made among Hispanic voters would have been a delight – except for all the ugly racism.
What’s made the spectacle even more amazing has been the deja vu quality – it’s been just like watching Wilson and Prop 184 push away the growing Hispanic voter base in order to
currygrab the most extreme Gooper fringe.And just as deadly for the Goopers’ electoral future.
Christy GREAT Post.
Here is more about Obama’s strategy for Rural voters.
http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=279
And kudos to FDL which has been very fare, unlike Taylor Marsh, Talk Left, eriposte which have basically been Obama smear sites, hellbent on creating the Clinton or nobody meltdown express, a meme they will never be able to shake once the primaries are over.
Which is why Edwards is acting like a grownup. Hillary thought that women would flock to her to “make history” and elect the first woman president. understand I have been a contriuting memeber to the WhiteHouseProject (a bi partison coalition of groups–some of which like Emily’s List are themeselves partisan–dedicated to electing the first woman president) for gosh about 6 or 7 years now. But gender w/o issues is not enough
Barack runs on the cult of personality. But personality w/o issues is not enough, and frankly his issues all seem to be borrowed from his opponenets. I also am terrified by the “i will find expert to govern for me” attitude.
Edwards on the other hand has been about issues. he doesn’t say that he is theh ONLY ONE WHO ABLE TO DO X.
It’s not about him. What he dose seem to be saying is that he is only one offering to do X, so if yo u want X, you might want to give him a chance. i don’t want another corporatist. the Corporations have lobyiest, they don’t need to have the presidency too
i just dont get the appeal of Jo
just wow
I’ll give him enough room to see what happens. I’ve been very critical of Obama and I hold no illusions about this or him. I do believe however what ever his intentions are, and whatever the results may be, it will be an interesting case study for evaluation.
He opened the door for people to get involved, and I do believe a percentage will stay involved no matter what. Others will be turned away.
What will GOTV… the grunts on the ground or the pent up anger with the pukes?
Here’s what worries me…suddenly a couple of years ago, a newly-elected Senator is touted a “rock star” by the MSM….Mr. LS and I both said, Uh..oh..then his publicity mysteriously overtook the MSM to the point of frenzy…we went to see him…he really was great..but….I’m really worried about the Rezko thing being a set-up; especially with the timing of the trial…say it ain’t so…say it ain’t so…I don’t want to believe that it is so, but this needs to be cleared up or the Rove machine will destroy us again…Rove’s out there, and Rove is always up to no good. I’m very worried about this. Obama needs to stop them dead in their tracks. Now.
After having sat through eight years of watching the Dems roll over and show their belly at the slightest hint of push back from the Rs, I think I’m kinda looking forward to a candidate that is just as ruthless and willing to push the Rs as they’ve been to the Ds. It’s not right but I’m tired of pols not fighting for anything.
And I for one don’t vote on one issue but besides Irak, McCain is anti-choice, he’s big business all the way, he really is a life-long conservative Republican. And not my idea of what our future President should be. The only positive I can say about him is he’s probably the closest to sane of the Pygmy Primary bunch.
Bush tour of Middle East.
An ABC of failure.
-G
*Pravda link. Notice the analysis of Sen. Clinton in closing.
Twain, Sadlyyes, and Margot…alright fine. I’m a spring chicken. LOL
I guess I am confusing it. The good people of the 60’s and before that generation…are still VERY active in making change in this country. I lose sight of that fact sometimes. We all should be very grateful. It is nice to see their faces still today, though. Like I said, I was surprised to see so many of them, but then again, Kucinich has been fighting the good fight for a long time.
We need more “anger” or the “fire in the belly” attitude, today. ;-)
What’s with taylor marsh and her fetish for hillary?
So… have we finally and fully arrived at Marshall McLuhan’s message?
well then you are in good company here!
The interesting thing about it is how this plays into Sibel Edmonds story about the Turks/A***C connection…Pearle, Feith, Franklin…like you say..McCain has to leave and Joe’s in control. It is the Neocon wetdream.
I know when I was doing work for the Kerry folks as a volunteer here, the tv ads were doing nothing. But the GOP/church phone trees and our door-to-door canvassing discussions were going head to head — and the graound game made the difference. And on the Dem side here, anyway, it was lacking in some pretty fundamental ways. For the longest time, I thought it was just because our party leadership and members were getting along in years and didn’t have that sort of energy to get out and do — which is why the Obama youth energy is great to see.
But will it last beyond this election cycle? That’s always the big question. Here, union involvement was really key — saved our butts in a lot of ways because there wasn’t a lot of other support to grab. There was a lot of “I can’t stand Bush,” but not nearly enough “I’m going to work my ass off for Kerry because he’s a fantastic candidate.” Support was, to be blunt, fairly tepid here among a lot of Dems.
Would love to move past that this time around. But I wonder if we learned the right lessons from that? And if we are applying them?
many moons ago
In the last debate, Edwards was dynamic. Obama and Clinton were petty and juvenile. Edwards was the adult.
this cannot happen
I watched the Whitewater story develop from nothing..there was very little “raw material” to begin with and look where it ended up. Rizko has an order of magnitude more raw material…they really need to get ahead of the story…quickly.
Why is the whole discussion on FDL about Obama and Hil?!
I will be voting for Edwards here in MN. It is bad enough to have MSM ignore him . . .
Sorry to see Kucinich leave!!! We need to help him win his house seat back!
So… I have to vote for whatever MSM tells me?
Okey-doke! But this Minnesotan is voting for Edwards in my caucus. Period.
OT, but who’s watching Keith? He just said that Mukasey hung a picture of George Orwell in his office. That’s just too spooky!
i can get over all the mud slinging…i really want somebody older with more experience…the country is too fukkkked up for a novice imo
I have no idea. A Nevada paper called her out, during the Caucuses there because she sent her readers ala MalKKKin to their comment sections to create havoc , they sent her an email with questions which she never answered, but they included a comment that at one time she was paid either by the DLC or AFSME to blog for Clinton. They essentially called her out for being a shill, that distorted their article and sent her troops over to the comment section to act-up.
Asiatimes analysis on Palestine/Gaza.
The Gaza ‘tea party’.
It will be interesting to see of Olmert and Mubarak can outlast Bush.
-G
read 107
and the freakkin EGYPTIANS we gave 50 gazillion dollars to,closed their frontier…NICE
Taylor is a good friend of mine, and I love her to death. Let me say that right up front. Same with Jeralyn. People choose to endorse a candidate — and, when they do so, it’s understandable that they support that candidate. Which sometimes means that they don’t see the warts as clearly as people who are not supporting that particular candidate.
I haven’t endorsed anyone — and, frankly, I get a lot of shit in e-mail for not doing so, because everyone comes up with a conspiracy theory about who I’ve sworn some secret pinkie swear to and am steering my rampant blog-reading minions toward from the shadows. (As if…hahahahahaha) I didn’t do so because I thought that reporting on the whole of the election cycle, and not just from a single perspective was more valuable for me and for the values that I hold dear, including rule of law issues. But, believe me, as much as people who don’t like Hillary gripe about her supporters, I get crap from all sides for not endorsing anyone.
This year, no matter what you do, everyone is bitching. And, frankly, I’m a bit tired of it. *g*
Hey – if George Orwell was still around, he might have a picture of Mukasey in *his* office….
It can’t be uniting around a “party”; it has to be united around the realities of existance, which is what gives power to a particular party. Organizations like NOW have connotations that a lot of women do not like…NARAL, same thing; both exclude men for the most part. Single fathers have a hell of a hard time, and usually end up with the short end of the stick.
It has to be about the power of the people in a democracy…maybe a Constitution Union or something, where people can belong no matter where they come from, no matter what their gender, no matter what their race or ethnic origin; and no matter what party they support, but where they get real education and information about how the system runs and feel that they belong and are not isolated. Just sayin’.
So – what were you trying to tell me?
Um…did you miss the several times I talked about Edwards in the post above? I really did try to hit high points for all three candidates…
OBAMAs tooo young and Hillary is the status quo
EDWASRDS is my man!!
eek hands cold,sorry for typoze
Digby has been getting it worse..she had to stop comments..I don’t know her but I can’t think of anyone less deserving of that kind of shit.
Stick in a vote for Edwards for me will ya…I get no choice until November!!
funny, I don’t feel “minion-y”.
“Rampant”? – well – some days… *g*
The lady and I are going cowboy and cowgirl dancing tonight. This club that we once in a while frequent can be a rowdy place. She has asked me not to start any trouble. Why… whatever do you mean? I ask. She says you know perfectly well, kiddo. Gawd I love this woman.
It’s just too eerie if you ask me, and Keith thought so, too. You could almost hear people saying Eewww!
Did you guys see Naomi on the Dems…in Huffpo?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..83322.html
Edwards is our guy too. ;0)
It is sad to see the tactics used by Bill Clinton to turn Barack Obama into a “black candidate” working successfully. I’m naive enough to believe that the titular leader of the Democratic Party should not be using racism to advance his political agenda. I guess I’m just old-fashioned.
Christy with all due respect. The problem with Jeralyn and especially Taylor Marsh is not their endorsement, it is the irresponsible smears that they propagate and help to spread, that are not only horrendous but hurt full beyond what we can even imagine. In reading some of the African American blogs, some of which are Hillary supporters, they have taken them over the coals and rightfully so.
OT…FISA..Harry talks like the thugs don’t have 60.
C&L
Naomi sez peeps are feeling teh desperate
That’s pretty much my philosophy.
Sorry, Christy. I wasn’t talking about you – or the site. It is just that I am frustrated by the many posts discussing the other two. I thank you and Jane so much for this wonderful site. Like so many others, you keep me closer to sanity during this challenging time for us patriots as we watch our Constitution get shredded.
Go John!
Im hoping the sibling rivalry ,will let JRE sail through the parted seas,lol
Digby has been incredibly thoughtful and fair in her posts. Those who bash her are just imbeciles. She has been insightful and her crediblity has been hightened in my mind by her actions
Stick to your guns!! That is why we admire you guys so much!!! I have no clue of your preferences, and I like it that way; especially at this point in the game. In fact, I don’t even have a real clue of my own preferences…it varies vastly day to day. I so want the best for this country, but it is really hard to choose…no one is perfect..they all, and I do mean all, have some ideas that are good…some better than others…some unacceptable.
i think all his personal tradgedies have made this man grow in character
Remember when you hear talk about a $300.00 stimulus rebate, That is the same amount of money Saddamists, Baathists and dead enders in Ira get from George W. Bush every month.
TSP=Terrorist Stimulus Package.
-G
Jane and I try and be very careful about all of that — it can be tough when so many rumors fly at you at once, though. Really. Some days I literally get 400 or more e-mails in a single day, a lot of which are tips or links to news items or candidate quotes — and it’s tough to chase down everything. We’ve had a policy that I think serves us pretty well of trying to get confirming sources (as in multiple where we can) since we started working together during Fitzgerald’s investigation. Keeps us on our toes. *g*
And some of the nasty invective that has gone back and forth from so many places in this campaign has been beyond annoying. I loved John Edwards “I’m the grown-up.” line because, honestly, that was what it felt like the other night. I’m not saying debate on issues isn’t important — it really is. But we try to have a policy of having factual back-up for assertions whenever we possibly can — saves us from having to walk stuff back later on…
I thought a lot of us have expressed our support of Edwards, especially since Gore decided to become a venture capitalist instead of entertaining the notion to run. Edwards is really our only populist choice.
OT-but it sounds like Keith is going to explain Super Delegates next! That’s good, ‘cuz I don’t know what they are. If I ever knew, I’ve forgotten.
Nothin wrong with a portrait of Orwell in my opinion:
Political views
Orwell’s political views shifted over time, but he was a man of the political left throughout his life as a writer. In his earlier days he occasionally described himself as a “Tory anarchist”. His time in Burma made him a staunch opponent of imperialism, and his experience of poverty while researching Down and Out in Paris and London and The Road to Wigan Pier turned him into a socialist. “Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it,” he wrote in 1946.
It was the Spanish Civil War that played the most important part in defining his socialism. Having witnessed the success of the anarcho-syndicalist communities, and the subsequent brutal suppression of the anarcho-syndicalists and other revolutionaries by the Soviet-backed Communists, Orwell returned from Catalonia a staunch anti-Stalinist and joined the Independent Labour Party.
At the time, like most other left-wingers in the United Kingdom, he was still opposed to rearmament against Nazi Germany — but after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and the outbreak of the Second World War, he changed his mind. He left the ILP over its pacifism and adopted a political position of “revolutionary patriotism”. He supported the war effort but detected (wrongly as it turned out) a mood that would lead to a revolutionary socialist movement among the British people. “We are in a strange period of history in which a revolutionary has to be a patriot and a patriot has to be a revolutionary,” he wrote in Tribune, the Labour left’s weekly, in December 1940.
By 1943, his thinking had moved on. He joined the staff of Tribune as literary editor, and from then until his death was a left-wing (though hardly orthodox) Labour-supporting democratic socialist. He canvassed for the Labour Party in the 1945 general election and was broadly supportive of its actions in office, though he was sharply critical of its timidity on certain key questions and despised the pro-Soviet stance of many Labour left-wingers.
Well, he’s certainly had enough of them.
Oprah Winfrey made Obama the black candidate listen to her speech in SC
that’s why you don’t see her out for him anymore
And that is why Christy, whennever I read your posts, I know that I am reading something not only thought provoking, but they are filled with FACTS…and I am always thankful to you for that!
I was just thinking that a portrait of Orwell would be a good cautionary reminder when a tough decsion came up.
Please. Recall that the goal is to give the nasty Republicans the boot next November. In that context we, in this home, will vote for the Democratic nominee of our party no matter the name of that nominee. Won’t all of you consider joing us in that endeavor. We respectfully ask. Thankyou.
Oh! Thanks!
Damn, why is Keith acting like it’s a bad thing if HRC or BO or JRE don’t wrap up the nomination after “Super Tuesday?”
The longer it goes, the more Dems get a chance to make a selection.
Been thinking the exact same thing for days. It’s a keeper worth repeating, Greg.
He is black, white, and everything in between – who cares! Honestly, why are we so obsessed with race and gender…
He’s a teevee “actor”.
Will try! But I will probably get arrested for trying to vote twice! (-:
Goodnight all you wonderful folks. Time to leave, I’m taking Lahoma out for dinner and dancing. Keep up the good fight. :0)
have fun!!!!
Russ slammed Edwards again yesterday..Any idea what is going on with that? It is one of the more odd thing going on.
our attny general,has a portrait of Orwell in his office…ne needs to be sent some rats imo
LOL
I was responding to a comment above that the clintons made this about race
and I don’t think that’s true.
And James Clyburn said it was Huckabee who brought race to the forefront in SC when he brought up the flag. I am tired of seeing the Clintons getting bashed for something they did not do…either one of them
But I am with you race and gender should not be an issue –but that is the issue because the media made it the issue and people who felt they could gain advantage from keeping it going did so.
It sure as hell doesn’t help the Democratic Party that Chuck Schumer cannot denounce the Florida e-mail blitz that paint Obama as a “Muslim plant” or a “Manchurian candidate”. What the hell?!?! Schumer can’t step up?!?
I don’t particularly care for Clinton. But I was prepared to vote for her if necessary. After the actions of the last couple of weeks — particularly by B. Clinton — I don’t think I can vote for her under any circumstances if she is the nominee. They have introduced race into this campaign in a way that no progressive Democrat should be party to. In 1980, I despised both Carter and Reagan. I voted for Barry Commoner. If Clinton is the Dem nominee this time, I will back to that point again… I don’t see any real difference between Clinton and McCain. She’s just more of a kind of politics that I want no part of.
who does he support?
Mukasey and Orwell portraits side-by-side… interesting….
I may be feeling a totally unfounded rumor campaign coming on.
You are surprised?
What’s such a relief about this site is that with almost no exceptions we’re kind to each other. Even if we disagree we manage to do it with civility and a smile. I don’t care for invective being directed at me and it just doesn’t happen here. Thanks to all headliners and mods for creating a place where we can find facts without spin (well, except for Donita), and constructive dialogue. And a healthy dose of humor too. It’s why FDL is my home page. /testimonial
best to win early and collect money rather than spending it and watch while your opponents do your job for you by knocking the holy living shit out of one another
How did Clinton introduce race
link
Hey, have fun you guys! Good night!
Great post. Interesting questions to provoke much introspection, and yes, FDL has been one of a handful that have handled this primary season very evenly. Many thanks for that!
I did want to point out something about the a comment above about the NH recount however. BlackBoxVoting.org would really disagree with the assesment that the recount “settles it.” As they have proven many times over the last few years, recounts are often a sham to create a false sense of comfort with the particular “election.”
They have many people “on the ground” still in NH and they are not happy with what they’re finding.
http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-b…..71572.html
BBV is very thorough and has even won cash settlements from Deibold because of their work. They are currently saying there are a lot of red flags in NH, and sounding alarm bells about Nov. Personally, this should be one of the top issues for the Netroots right now, since all of our work gets diminished if elections can be easily altered…IMHO.
I understand…
I, however, consider anything that is a continuation of the Republican warmongering, fearmongering, rubberstamp, unitary executive, lie us into war, torture advocating party…Unacceptable. McCain is a Republican, so he is unacceptable in my book.
It’s an issue because we are human and it’s is an issue in every society as far as I can tell. I guess it reinforces the fact that we all started out from the same place in Africa.
seems to me that a recount in NH is pretty straightforward- count the paper ballots and compare that to the electronic tally
It matches or it doesnt
No need for theorizing
I heard a rumor today that Bill Clinton got a dressing down because he’s been freelancing it a bit on the campaign trial. Haven’t been able to nail it down, so that’s strictly rumor mill at this point — but there has been a noticable change in tone over the last couple of days, including him making public remarks in several places about regretting taking things too far. He has a serious competitive streak — one of the smartest people I have ever met in my life, and he clearly likes to win (having gotten into an argument with him when we were at the blogger thing and being a redhead myself, I get that mindset *g*). But he had taken it too far and he needed to start publicly walking it back.
I’m hoping they continue down that line, because it needs doing. And if I get confirmation on what I heard, I’ll let you guys know all the details.
He won’t say other than Obama or Clinton but not Edwards. It is all quite odd.
I have no idea. Something might really be going on beneath the surface. The thing is, I have some reservations, but I’m sticking it out with supporting Edwards until or unless Feingold wants to say what’s really on his mind and back it up with some evidence. I’m not going to throw who I deem to be the best candidate under the bus due to some minor personality conflicts. The thing is, I haven’t heard either one of them being gratuitously antagonistic to anyone else, so my curiousity level is also high. I’m in a wait and see mode.
must be personal?????
What BBV is doing is the exact opposite of “theorizing.” They are still investigating and hoping to find the smoking gun, as they have before. In several years of following BBV, they are almost never wrong.
he said it was because of his senate votes???
The issue of non-verifiable votes is something that I’ve been howling about for years. We vote on those damnable touch screens so there is absolutely no way to do a recount, other than have the machine vomit up the same possibly fraudulent vote total it gave in the first place. I have NEVER understood why this has not been a huge issue for the [cough, snort] Democratic leadership in Congress. Maybe after the next election is stolen it will be, but by then it will be too late.
361 days of W, unless they gin up a “national emergency” and suspend the election or steal this one too. I have to go and adjust my tinfoil hat. I’ll be back in a bit…
Paul has lotsa signs.
In this environment, I think it is counter-productive..especially looking toward the General Election. On the other hand, if everyone else is so smart, why is Bill Clinton the only two term Dem since FDR?
You know, sometimes someone just “chaps your ass,” as Mr. ReddHedd says. For whatever reason, you just don’t like someone and there it is. Maybe that’s it?
I agree that McCain is unacceptable. My point is that Clinton is equally unacceptable.
Oh, and if it was only that simple. I’d suggest poking around BlackBoxVoting.org a little, and you can find out exactly how “recounts” often work. They are anything but conclusive.
http://commoniowan.blogspot.co…..still.html
this is a wisconsin blogger and some discussion of the Feingold Edwards
coversation it’s very interesting
To be honest, the only ones who gain from identity politics are the Clintons
If gender and race are issues, Hilary gets ~50% while Obama gets 12%…it is to his advantage NOT to play identity politics…I think the Clintons have played identity politics quite subtly (and I am not an African American)
And I totally agree with you, the media is behaving like mindless morons
Read the paper.
If so, he needs to get his shit together and think about what is important and trashing a candidate isn’t it.
I s’pose not. Dismayed, disgusted, and pissed would more accurately describe it.
same wih Dennis…..please a progressive for us NOW….pleaze,pleaze,pleaze!!!!
Do you mind if I ask what seaerch techniques you used to find this?
Very interesting, thanks!
I do read the paper I read several
and I don’t see it so I am asking you to explain what it is you see
I used the terms
Edwards Feingold conversation
Dems who have been elected in recent history:
Truman
Kennedy
Johnson
Carter
Clinton
How many progressives in the group?
I found the two comments on it quite on target.
A) Feingold doesn’t own these issues.
B) He really is making this more about himself and not the issues.
You in FL? It blows to be a Democrat here.
Thanks, I always am looking for tips on search technique.
seems to me that a recount in NH is pretty straightforward- count the paper ballots and compare that to the electronic tally
It matches or it doesnt
No need for theorizing
Your point holds only if there is a clear chain of custody of the paper ballots – how many ballot papers were printed, how many used, who collected the paper ballots, were they sealed etc. It seems the chain of custody was very lax (to say the least) in NH
Lots of issues raised by BBV – check it out. India, by the way, has a great electronic voting system, and a good example to follow…
Yeah, IIRC, he cited six separate votes that he said Edwards is now campaigning on that he voted the opposite way when he had the opportunity. One of them I’m sure is probably the AUMF vote. I heard the quote that Feingold made the remark (paraphrasing) “He’s running on my record, but he didn’t vote that way!” I’m guessing there’s bad blood over one or some of those votes. Maybe Feingold wanted his vote and Edwards politicked it away (meaning I think he traded his vote for something else, but to Feingold it was a matter of principle.) That’d do it!
Jane has a new post up about Sam Seder’s appearance on Countdown!
Approximately 2.5 total and that’s a composite. Each of them did some things that could be considered progressive, but in and of themselves, they were non of them particularly progressive in the platforms they ran on.
I didn’t get it. I really like Feingold and especially in light of Edwards speaking out and emailing his list on FISA ..
Hey Russ WTF?
I thought it was kind of a gratuitous slam
Dakine
Good point- and an object lesson in putting too much faith in what these people say rather than what they are likely to DO.
Sure he’s a competitive guy. But does his personality excuse such behavior? He has purposefully attacked a fellow Democrat in a reprehensible fashion — trying to turn Obama into “the black candidate” — to polarize America along racial lines so that Hillary gets white votes. Bill and Hillary have put their personal ambition ahead of progressive values. There is no way to justify what they have done without being party to racism. And I’m a white guy who worked in the Clinton White House for eight years.
What part of anything I said above excused his behavior? Jeebus, read what I wrote. And what I’ve written about how asinine the whole crapfesdt has been. Don’t put words or sentiments into my mouth or my comments that I am not having.
Here, let me help you out — I’ll quote myself from above:
“…But he had taken it too far and he needed to start publicly walking it back.
I’m hoping they continue down that line, because it needs doing.”
Now, what part of that excuses his behavior or says that it is okay?
PBS, so solid stuff. A discussion Clinton and playing the race card:
http://www-tc.pbs.org/newshour…..5_sb28.mp3
Uh, I’m not so sure you’d get a lot of agreement that “News Hour” and PBS are all that solid these days.
“…there has been a noticable change in tone over the last couple of days, including him making public remarks in several places about regretting taking things too far. He has a serious competitive streak — one of the smartest people I have ever met in my life, and he clearly likes to win…”
I apologize if I misinterpreted the statement above. I thought your point was to downplay his comments by saying that(a)he’s recently toned it down; and (b) he’s just a competitive guy who likes to win.
thanks I’ll take a look
Recounts can be misleading. Are recounts randomly selected? Is everything recounted, or sample precincts? How are those precincts selected? Are the recounts a “surprise” to those precincts recounted, or do they have advance warning? Are the recounts done by hand? In public? Who is doing the recounting?
In 2004 there were as many shenanigans (putting it nicely, fuckery is another word) during the recounts as there were during the election.
The Brennan Center for Justice (IIRC) has a report on the need for recount of electric balloting and how they need to happen.
No problem — I just wanted to be sure you understood where I was coming from with that. I’ve been trying to figure out why it went so far, when the long-term ramifications for that are detrimental to so many things he had previously worked for…and I think that may be why. Doesn’t make it right, not at all, but it still makes me curious because it makes no sense to me on a tactical basis, let alone in terms of human inter-relationships. Ya know?
I listened to Mark Shields(who I like and respect) and Bobob (who is a total ass) and I call baloney.
I didn’t know that calling someone a reagan lover was racist
this is racist
http://michellemalkin.com/2008…..institute/
“I listened to Mark Shields(who I like and respect) and Bobob (who is a total ass) and I call baloney.
I didn’t know that calling someone a reagan lover was racist”
No – it was the subsequent discussion on how Bill Clinton is trying to paint Obama as the black candidate.
Katherine, the thing with racial comments, they are often suggestions, with the racial subtext just below the surface. When Bill Clinton says that Obama will win SC because it is 50% African American, he is trying to box him into a stereotype, and the subtext is, well, shouldn’t whites vote for their own? This is just one example and there are others, where Clinton deliberately brings up race and stereotypes, e.g., saying Obama put a “hit-job” on him. There is an attempt to push Obama into the role of a scary ‘black’ candidate.
And yes, the media is complicit (though it just may be that they are morons who kepe repeating what they hear)
Sorry for not reading all 140 comments first, but I recommend Adam B’s diary on dKos, “Obama, Community Organizer, Back In The Day,” on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 12:53:52 PM PST. Good background for this post!
and just listening to Speaker Pelosi at the National Press Club criticizing Bush for making bad choices and having bad priorities, all the while ignoring the Elephant in the middle of the room, the BushCheney crime syndicate, and the consequences of taking impeachment off the table. Gr-r-r-r-r.
Bob in HI
Seems ta me that the dem candidates have been playin “pattycake”….Wait til the general when things get REALLY nasty—and I want a candidate who can mix it up with the gooper- who orders thugs from the old country.
re Julia Roberts resemblance, yes, very much so.
And YouTube video is well done.
I agree.
Having a portrait of Orwell staring at me every day would be a healthy reminder.
I am going to think about this .
Thanks for taking the time to explain
Sadly, I am not lifting a finger for another Republican in Democrats clothing. My vote and efforts should not be used
to enrich corporate America and Repbulicans,only to be rewarded if
I am lucky with crumbs.
You want local? What are your local issues? You got local candidates? Who is running for dog control officer in your town? You got the troops for phone banks? boots on the ground? last time out we locals produced and funded local radio spots which were far more in tune than the TV stuff being done on the CD level. Who your County Chairman is is going to be far more important than whether Hillary or Barack fronts the ticket.