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	<title>Comments on: FISA:  Take Action Today</title>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1227753</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And I’m sure that Whitehouse is writing up an amendment as we speak that will charge anyone who gives orders to spy on Americans without warrants with treason, high crimes and misdemeanors and that the penalty is immediate deportation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I can hope, right?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Given that Whitehouse caved in and voted with Bush, and was one of the 13 people on SSIC who voted for their turkey of a bill, (only Wyden and Feingold) opposed it–the vote was 13-2 on the horrible piece of crap  SSIC(Bond and Jello Jay slapped together with Cheney and Addington).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Here’s how that went down:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bush Ditto Heads on FISA aka Wussie Wussie Pansies who voted for the Bush Version of FISA on SSCI:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Kit Bond, Vice Chairman Missouri&lt;br /&gt;
  John Warner Virginia&lt;br /&gt;
  Chuck Hagel Nebraska&lt;br /&gt;
  Saxby Chambliss Georgia&lt;br /&gt;
  Orrin Hatch Utah&lt;br /&gt;
  Olympia Snowe Maine&lt;br /&gt;
  Richard Burr North Carolina&lt;br /&gt;
  Bill Nelson Florida&lt;br /&gt;
  Sheldon Whitehouse&lt;br /&gt;
  John D. Rockefeller IV, Chairman West Virginia&lt;br /&gt;
  Dianne Feinstein California&lt;br /&gt;
  Evan Bayh Indiana&lt;br /&gt;
  Barbara Mikulski Maryland&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Given that Whitehouse was among these and is a Bushie on Intelligence Wiretapping revision, I wouldn’t expect such a vote.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And I’m sure that Whitehouse is writing up an amendment as we speak that will charge anyone who gives orders to spy on Americans without warrants with treason, high crimes and misdemeanors and that the penalty is immediate deportation.</p>
<p>I can hope, right?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Given that Whitehouse caved in and voted with Bush, and was one of the 13 people on SSIC who voted for their turkey of a bill, (only Wyden and Feingold) opposed it–the vote was 13-2 on the horrible piece of crap  SSIC(Bond and Jello Jay slapped together with Cheney and Addington).</p>
<p><strong>Here’s how that went down:</strong></p>
<p>Bush Ditto Heads on FISA aka Wussie Wussie Pansies who voted for the Bush Version of FISA on SSCI:</p>
<p>Kit Bond, Vice Chairman Missouri<br />
  John Warner Virginia<br />
  Chuck Hagel Nebraska<br />
  Saxby Chambliss Georgia<br />
  Orrin Hatch Utah<br />
  Olympia Snowe Maine<br />
  Richard Burr North Carolina<br />
  Bill Nelson Florida<br />
  Sheldon Whitehouse<br />
  John D. Rockefeller IV, Chairman West Virginia<br />
  Dianne Feinstein California<br />
  Evan Bayh Indiana<br />
  Barbara Mikulski Maryland
 </p>
<p>Given that Whitehouse was among these and is a Bushie on Intelligence Wiretapping revision, I wouldn’t expect such a vote.</p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1227223</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 02:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1227223</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for your nice outlines of the permutations and combinations.   On one recennt thread you remarked that Reid often toses out luke-warm rhetoric indicating he’s an anti-Bush team player,only to act in the entirely opposite way.   For me that’s a Reid trademark, and I’d really be very surprised if he falls out of that pattern with this bill.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your nice outlines of the permutations and combinations.   On one recennt thread you remarked that Reid often toses out luke-warm rhetoric indicating he’s an anti-Bush team player,only to act in the entirely opposite way.   For me that’s a Reid trademark, and I’d really be very surprised if he falls out of that pattern with this bill.</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226629</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226629</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;January an interesting month in terms of history and rights.  A month symbolic of the Emancipation Proclamation, Martin Luther King and the birth of the first written words of American independence:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;January 9, 1776 - Thomas Paine’s “Common Sense” is published in Philadelphia. The 50 page pamphlet is highly critical of King George III and attacks allegiance to Monarchy in principle while providing strong arguments for American independence. It becomes an instant best-seller in America. “We have it in our power to begin the world anew…American shall make a stand, not for herself alone, but for the world,” Paine states.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is also a month marked by oaths taken with national interests turned into destructive self-interests… &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“I will employ my strength for the welfare of the German people, protect the Constitution and laws of the German people, conscientiously discharge the duties imposed on me, and conduct my affairs of office impartially and with justice to everyone.” - the oath taken by &lt;strong&gt;Adolf Hitler&lt;/strong&gt;. 1/30/1933&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My hope is that January 28th, 2008 goes down as another famous January date that stands for constitutional liberties and not false oaths or empty promises made by selfish, power-hungry politicians.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s a day of substantial actions needed to protect the Constitution.  And as Thomas Jefferson wrote one January:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    * Letter to Richard Price (January 8, 1789)
 &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;People, keep making your calls.  I hope Edwards does something more to support Dodd.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>January an interesting month in terms of history and rights.  A month symbolic of the Emancipation Proclamation, Martin Luther King and the birth of the first written words of American independence:</p>
<blockquote><p>January 9, 1776 &#8211; Thomas Paine’s “Common Sense” is published in Philadelphia. The 50 page pamphlet is highly critical of King George III and attacks allegiance to Monarchy in principle while providing strong arguments for American independence. It becomes an instant best-seller in America. “We have it in our power to begin the world anew…American shall make a stand, not for herself alone, but for the world,” Paine states.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It is also a month marked by oaths taken with national interests turned into destructive self-interests… </p>
<p>“I will employ my strength for the welfare of the German people, protect the Constitution and laws of the German people, conscientiously discharge the duties imposed on me, and conduct my affairs of office impartially and with justice to everyone.” &#8211; the oath taken by <strong>Adolf Hitler</strong>. 1/30/1933</p>
<p>My hope is that January 28th, 2008 goes down as another famous January date that stands for constitutional liberties and not false oaths or empty promises made by selfish, power-hungry politicians.</p>
<p>It’s a day of substantial actions needed to protect the Constitution.  And as Thomas Jefferson wrote one January:</p>
<blockquote><p>Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.</p>
<p>    * Letter to Richard Price (January 8, 1789)
 </p>
</blockquote>
<p>People, keep making your calls.  I hope Edwards does something more to support Dodd.</p>
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		<title>By: ImaPT</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226532</link>
		<dc:creator>ImaPT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226532</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I also just spoke with McCaskill’s office.  The staffer I talked to confirmed that she was leaning toward the Specter amendment.  I explained why I thought that was not a good amendment.  He was actually very knowledgeable on the issue and responsive, unlike many staffers I’ve talked to this week.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He mentioned that they’ve fielded over 1000 calls today on FISA.  That’s awesome!  Let’s keep up the pressure (on all our senators).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also just spoke with McCaskill’s office.  The staffer I talked to confirmed that she was leaning toward the Specter amendment.  I explained why I thought that was not a good amendment.  He was actually very knowledgeable on the issue and responsive, unlike many staffers I’ve talked to this week.  </p>
<p>He mentioned that they’ve fielded over 1000 calls today on FISA.  That’s awesome!  Let’s keep up the pressure (on all our senators).</p>
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		<title>By: peacearena</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226388</link>
		<dc:creator>peacearena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226388</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As a fellow Okie, thanks for posting. I wasn’t going to waste time on our Senators — it always seems so pointless — but now I will, so at least they get two calls.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a fellow Okie, thanks for posting. I wasn’t going to waste time on our Senators — it always seems so pointless — but now I will, so at least they get two calls.</p>
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		<title>By: cboldt</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226375</link>
		<dc:creator>cboldt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226375</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;One question I’ve had is whether anyone has approached the Ron Paul organization about getting involved in the FISA fight.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I suspect that to the extent those folks are aware there is a FISA fight going on, they ARE activist about it.  I’m of a mind that a close issues-oriented affiliation would cause more harm the DEM side, without any upside as far as moving the Senate away from objectionable aspects of the administration’s FISA bill.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>One question I’ve had is whether anyone has approached the Ron Paul organization about getting involved in the FISA fight.</i></p>
<p>I suspect that to the extent those folks are aware there is a FISA fight going on, they ARE activist about it.  I’m of a mind that a close issues-oriented affiliation would cause more harm the DEM side, without any upside as far as moving the Senate away from objectionable aspects of the administration’s FISA bill.</p>
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		<title>By: cboldt</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226365</link>
		<dc:creator>cboldt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226365</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here’s another point that’s slightly off …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And if Republicans do manage to get sixty votes, a filibuster is certain to ensue in the subsequent 30 hours. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;30 hours is 30 hours.  The same clock runs if they are in recess, adjourned or talking.  But post-cloture time is unique in that it LIMITS each Senator to one hour of talk time!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Those minor parliamentary points aside (post-cloture filibuster - ability and likelihood of getting amendments pending post-cloture), I think Mr. Tagaris’s analysis is very good.  Or at least I agree with the political positions as he posits them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Reid is not mounting a direct challenge to the administration’s FISA bill.  He’s set up situations aimed to discourage opposition, and he hasn’t illuminated parliamentary tactics that short-circuit the effect of opposition.  He’s more acting the part of an impartial choreographer.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here’s another point that’s slightly off …</p>
<blockquote><p>And if Republicans do manage to get sixty votes, a filibuster is certain to ensue in the subsequent 30 hours. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>30 hours is 30 hours.  The same clock runs if they are in recess, adjourned or talking.  But post-cloture time is unique in that it LIMITS each Senator to one hour of talk time!</p>
<p>Those minor parliamentary points aside (post-cloture filibuster &#8211; ability and likelihood of getting amendments pending post-cloture), I think Mr. Tagaris’s analysis is very good.  Or at least I agree with the political positions as he posits them.</p>
<p>Reid is not mounting a direct challenge to the administration’s FISA bill.  He’s set up situations aimed to discourage opposition, and he hasn’t illuminated parliamentary tactics that short-circuit the effect of opposition.  He’s more acting the part of an impartial choreographer.</p>
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		<title>By: ImaPT</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226353</link>
		<dc:creator>ImaPT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226353</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I like the idea of getting more numbers involved.  One question I’ve had is whether anyone has approached the Ron Paul organization about getting involved in the FISA fight.  Even though the netroots has very little in common idealogically with Ron Paul’s supporters, one thing that Ron Paul is strong on is civil liberties.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It seems like that would be a powerful coalition (”a temporary alliance of distinct parties, persons, or states for joint action”) for this particular cause.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the idea of getting more numbers involved.  One question I’ve had is whether anyone has approached the Ron Paul organization about getting involved in the FISA fight.  Even though the netroots has very little in common idealogically with Ron Paul’s supporters, one thing that Ron Paul is strong on is civil liberties.  </p>
<p>It seems like that would be a powerful coalition (”a temporary alliance of distinct parties, persons, or states for joint action”) for this particular cause.</p>
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		<title>By: cboldt</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226333</link>
		<dc:creator>cboldt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226333</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;his is probably not new or startling, but this is Tim Tagaris’ take on the setup of events for Monday Jan. 28.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Picking just this one part for comment, I think Mr. Tagaris oversimiplifies the options.  There are many more directions this could play out.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;a.) Republicans get 60 votes.  In which case, there will only be one amendment pending to the final bill, and that is Feingold/Dodd on blanket warrants, I believe.  That will get tabled quite easily (much like Judiciary was today), and then the Intelligence Bill as we know it will get a a vote for final passage.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Passing a cloture motion doesn’t limit the number of amendments that can come up after the cloture vote.  At this point, the GOP is trying to get ZERO additional amendments pending, leaving only the Feingold/Bond competition relating to which parts of FISA Court pleadings and opinions would be submitted to Congress.  Feingold/Dodd’s #3909 vs. Bond’s #3916.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But further amendments could come up and be debated.  As to Dodd holding firm on 60 vote supermajority votes, I’m not sure which way he’d go.  If there wasn’t a cloture motion on the underlying bill, I think he’d agree to 60 vote margins, because that’s effectively what would be in place via the usual objection/cloture routine.  Being under a passed cloture motion, he still might agree, as that might be the only opportunity to get a hearing; and he could parlay the supermajority requirement as being an unfair hurdle set up by the GOP.  That’d be a fib, but it’s a very common fib told by Senators.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At any rate, my only point is that there are lots of options, including all the amendments such as stripping immunity, exclusivity, FISC reporting to Congress, IG review and report of warrantless surveillance, etc., that could easily be brought up for debate post-cloture.  Some would be disposed of as non-germane, others would be disposed of by vote.  I think this scenario (lots of options brought up and defeated) is inevitable (yes, I’m a cynical pessimist in that regard), but I don’t think it can or will happen next week.  It won’t happen because there isn’t enough time to wrangle through all that legislative ass covering (i.e., giving the Senators cover for saying “I tried.”) plus get past the House, before February 1st.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>his is probably not new or startling, but this is Tim Tagaris’ take on the setup of events for Monday Jan. 28.</i></p>
<p>Picking just this one part for comment, I think Mr. Tagaris oversimiplifies the options.  There are many more directions this could play out.</p>
<blockquote><p>a.) Republicans get 60 votes.  In which case, there will only be one amendment pending to the final bill, and that is Feingold/Dodd on blanket warrants, I believe.  That will get tabled quite easily (much like Judiciary was today), and then the Intelligence Bill as we know it will get a a vote for final passage.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Passing a cloture motion doesn’t limit the number of amendments that can come up after the cloture vote.  At this point, the GOP is trying to get ZERO additional amendments pending, leaving only the Feingold/Bond competition relating to which parts of FISA Court pleadings and opinions would be submitted to Congress.  Feingold/Dodd’s #3909 vs. Bond’s #3916.</p>
<p>But further amendments could come up and be debated.  As to Dodd holding firm on 60 vote supermajority votes, I’m not sure which way he’d go.  If there wasn’t a cloture motion on the underlying bill, I think he’d agree to 60 vote margins, because that’s effectively what would be in place via the usual objection/cloture routine.  Being under a passed cloture motion, he still might agree, as that might be the only opportunity to get a hearing; and he could parlay the supermajority requirement as being an unfair hurdle set up by the GOP.  That’d be a fib, but it’s a very common fib told by Senators.</p>
<p>At any rate, my only point is that there are lots of options, including all the amendments such as stripping immunity, exclusivity, FISC reporting to Congress, IG review and report of warrantless surveillance, etc., that could easily be brought up for debate post-cloture.  Some would be disposed of as non-germane, others would be disposed of by vote.  I think this scenario (lots of options brought up and defeated) is inevitable (yes, I’m a cynical pessimist in that regard), but I don’t think it can or will happen next week.  It won’t happen because there isn’t enough time to wrangle through all that legislative ass covering (i.e., giving the Senators cover for saying “I tried.”) plus get past the House, before February 1st.</p>
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		<title>By: ticktock</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226325</link>
		<dc:creator>ticktock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/25/fisa-take-action-today/#comment-1226325</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You know HRC’s office is tough to get a hold of so I just emailed her at the Senator’s website….&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When there’s a will there’s a way….&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know HRC’s office is tough to get a hold of so I just emailed her at the Senator’s website….</p>
<p>When there’s a will there’s a way….</p>
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