Now that Congress has collectively had a metaphorical two-by-four applied upside the head and realizes that the economy is in deep trouble there's movement to get a stimulus plan passed, and fast. As we all know, when this particular Congress does things, one often winds up wishing they just had stayed home. So MoveOn has a push on to contact Congressmembers and ask them to put together a good bill that isn't a pork laden giveaway that does little for the economy or those who need help.
What's a good bill? A good bill is one that does three things.
- It gets relief to people who need it. This means people who are poor. Tax rebates suck at this because people who owe taxes are obviously getting money. Sure they might want some more, but they don't need it. A good relief program will target people who are laid off with an extension of unemployment benefits, it will make sure that States don't have to cut back on relief by helping their relief budgets; it will target people like returning National Guardsmen who we know are in financial difficulty, and it will spend money on things like food stamps that get to people in need.
- It helps restructure the economy in ways that fix whatever's wrong with it. There's a lot wrong with the US economy, but the MoveOn idea of starting a Clean Energy Corps and investing in green energy to reduce energy costs is a good idea. The US needs to move off oil as much as possible, might as well start now.
- It helps the economy by creating a stimulus. Stimulus is only created if people spend. That means that tax cuts for the rich, who tend to take any extra money they have and save it or invest it is a lousy stimulus. Money should be aimed near the bottom of the pyramid, at people who need to buy stuff, now. Again the best way to do this is not with tax cuts, even for the middle class, but by directly sending money to folks who are poor and desperately need cash.
There's real danger that Congress will use the opportunity to pass a stimulus bill as a chance to get through lots of pork that won't provide relief, restructuring or stimulus, or that will take too long to take effect. Republicans in particular would love to make Bush's tax cuts for the rich permanent (because when you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.)
You can help by signing MoveOn's online petition, or by calling Congress yourself and talking to your Congressperson. The Capitol switchboard number is 202-224-3121 .
This stimulus plan matters. It could be the difference between whether the US has an absolutely horrible double-dip recession, or a relatively mild one. As importantly it could be the difference between whether people go without food, shelter or heat or whether their most basic needs are met.
Please sign the petition, or call.
Update: Unfortunately Nancy Pelosi has already caved on this and said that there will be no extension of benefits and there won't be more food stamps. Given that the Republican controlled Congress of 2001 extended benefits, this is amazing. Nonetheless enough outrage may swing things, so please call.
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Ian!
Rangel did say that was a non-starter, and was assured by Paulson that tha was off the table…
((( Ian )))
All the things you outline are true, which is why they’ll never be enacted by this Congress.
They’ll just give everyone an advance, which will have to be paid back, with interest …
This is going to be shuttled through quick thanks for the info.
Now with all this secret secrets will this package have some extra “around town” money!
Not only through food stamps, but, by waiving the 5 year limit on cash benefits, imposed by Clinton’s ‘Welfare Reform’, would go far too…
Senator Harkin discussing this very issue on cspan 2 now.
Actually, I’d like to see some “pork” that does provide relief.
The country has tons of deferred maintenance on vital infrastructure. We’ve got bridges that are unsafe, flood-prone areas with dangerous levees, and the like.
This is work that needs to be done. Having the government fund it now will put people to work with decent-paying jobs. Congresscritters will fight over whose district it will be in, and people will call it “pork”. And it won’t be instant; it will be some months until the work can start. But it should be done.
Gawd….W on Bin Laden in a new Fox documentary:
“If we could find the cave he is in, I promise you — he would be brought to justice or wherever he’s hiding,”
“brought to….wherever he’s hiding.” Whaaaaat????
This is the person to whom you’re speaking….
This is your prezdinent on something….
It worked the last time they did it and it would be a lot of help for cities and states.
Harkin, not only food, how about some help with buying gas or paying for the soaring electric bills… Hello…?
Ian I think you mean extension of Unemployment benefits…I assume SS stands for social security which is for old and disabled not unemployed folks.
Yes though. Good campaign. Even Bernake knows that tax cuts for the wealty are not the way to go on this one. Money for poor folks not exactly the GOP cup of tea but it is the only thing that might help.
I would argue however with anecdotal evidence that the country is up to their eyeballs in credit card debt that a couple hundred bucks will probably pay down debt and not put a dent in the economic activity.
Why is it assumed that Senate repugnicans are on board for this? I am just curious. There has been a lot of conservative talk that since the market stopped crashing (temporarily) for a whole two days now that no recession has happened or is coming and that stimulus is unnecessary. On the other hand, my local repug news reported the story as a done deal, with a check printing machine whirring in the background, which it clearly is not. Now the supposedly inevitable half-point rate cut by the Fed next week has shrunk to a quarter-point in the MSM. And there is spin that if the Senate demos “stand in the way of” or decide to amend the stimulus that they will punished later. I smell opposition coming from the repug side in the Senate. Has there been any indications of this?
They’re trying desperately to fend off the impending tsunami of lost Repug seats in the upcoming elections… A feeble effort, I might add…
Dang, Ian, you can chime in at any time… *g*
I’ve been listening to various econ-pundits over the last couple of days, and they generally worry that people will “save” any stimulus. One put it like this (paraphrasing): “We want folks to spend the stimulus on stuff — food, electronics, clothes, etc. We don’t want them to pay off some credit card debt or mortgage debt.”
Given how at least a chunk of this mess is related to debt and bankrupcy, I would think that even if folks paid off some debt, that would also help matters. Maybe not in the sense of prodding the broader economy, but it would certainly have the potential to help out some over-extended financial institutions.
Your thoughts, Ian?
I just suspect that there will be Repugs in the Senate opposed to any plan, on a philosophical basis, there own bacon be damned. Which would be just another in a long series of suicidal moves on their part.
Really — who IS assuming Repugs are on board for this, or even that shining-on (yet again) enforcing Harriet’s & Karl’s subpoenas is a worthwhile carrot toward that end?
This current screw job has wrecked my livelihood for the last 2 years & put me on the brink of bankruptcy, and no 4-figure biscuit is going to help me or make me feel better about it. I say shelve the stim’s, subpoena the f****rs, let the R leadership approach the Speaker with their proposal when they’re good & ready.
Carrots are NOT ACHIEVING DESIRED RESULTS. BREAK OUT THE STICKS.
Congress needs close watching. I see comments on fdl to the effect of how great it is that even wealthy people are feeling the pinch now. On the contrary, it means it’s very likely that those with power will attempt to use Congress to take away even more resources from the middle class.
More recently I believe, than a couple of months ago, George W. Bush was chattering about our “strong economy”. Can someone please explain to me how a one time check of $600 to $1200 from the feds is going to rescue this country from the very nasty recession, (and perhaps worse) that’s on it’s way?
AP - With unprecedented speed and cooperation, Congress and the White House forged a deal Thursday to begin rushing tax rebates of $600 to $1,200 to most tax filers by spring, hoping they will spend the money just as quickly and jolt the ailing economy to life.
I am soooo unbelievably confident that Congress will do the right thing.
I am behind on this..hasn’t Pelosi already been rolled by the Bush Thugs? Did I read that food stamps and unemployment benefits are gone and $80 billion in business tax cuts are in?
OK, this is kinds like Raygun’s ‘trickle down’ theory …
It would be better for the economy if they spent it rather than saved it. Think about a burning building (economy going into recession) with structural problems (excess debt). Most people would put out the fire first before addresses the underlying problems.
In a sense it doesn’t matter whether it is spent or used to pay off debt. If recipients choose to do the latter, it means that is a behavior that will have to be worked through before the economy can recover. It will be worked thru faster with tax cuts used for that purpose than if there were no tax cuts.
Have said that, consumers are fundamentally insatiable & I’d bet on most being spent.
Makes you glad they’re fighting for the little guy doesn’t it? Think what would happen if they were actively working against your interests…
Ian, great post, but as usual, I have a few questions:
Wouldn’t it be considered reasonable stimulus to start now to offer tax breaks to those companies that employ someone coming out of a retraining program? Or a homeless person? Or a weekend warrior who was working toward a Reserve retirement or National Guard retirement and hadn’t planned on fighting Bush’s war, but bought a house with his wife and they’re now on the verge of losing it? Is it too soon to start considering tax breaks for starting up a business that will help to reduce our dependence on foreign oil?
We have fairly serious problems with our infrastructure. Maintenance on roads and bridges has been deferred for too many years already, hence that bridge falling down and killing people during the last year. Isn’t it considered reasonable economic (although rather long term)stimulus to attempt to resolve some of these problems by putting people to work fixing these things. I thought that was the Democratic way.
Those of us who truly believe in “the miracle of the marketplace” subscribe to the trick-up theory: give money to consumers and let wealthy entrepreuners compete for it. It the American way!
Want to stimulate the economy? Stop spending $15,000,000,000 per month on losing wars and raise taxes.
Lets see now. We’ve had seven years of tax cuts. And now because of those tax cuts everything is coming up roses.
The more specific the details in the bill, the longer it takes to pass, and the longer it takes to exert stimulus. If time is of the essence, which it is, then the stimulus should be as broad as possible.
Economy grows - tax cuts
Economy receded - tax cuts
BushCo = consistent(ly bad)
I find the stimulus package so exciting! In a negative way.
So now that Nancy says that they have an agreement on this, do you think she’s gonna move ahead on the contempt citations for Miers and Bolton? After all she said that “in the spirit of bipartesinship” she did not want the citations to muck up the stimulus deal.
Yes, Ian, you need to update the post. The Dems have already caved on this: no extensions of unemployment benefits and no increase in food stamps. Many more breaks for business.
Oil costs rising, war, spending increases and tax cuts are a sure way to fix the economy. Right?
Great post, Ian. I went and signed the MoveOn petition.
On another timely legislative matter, has anyone posted this?
Dear neurophius,
When it comes to protecting the rule of law, words are not enough. We need action.
It’s wrong for your government to spy on you. That’s why I’m asking you to join me today in calling on Senate Democrats to filibuster revisions to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) that would give “retroactive immunity” to the giant telecom companies for their role in aiding George W. Bush’s illegal eavesdropping on American citizens.
The Senate is debating this issue right now — which is why we must act right now. You can call your Senators here:
Sam Brownback, (R): (202) 224-6521
Pat Roberts, (R): (202) 224-4774
Granting retroactive immunity is wrong. It will let corporate law-breakers off the hook. It will hamstring efforts to learn the truth about Bush’s illegal spying program. And it will flip on its head a core principle that has guided our nation since our founding: the belief that no one, no matter how well connected or what office they hold, is above the law.
But in Washington today, the telecom lobbyists have launched a full-court press for retroactive immunity. George Bush and Dick Cheney are doing everything in their power to ensure it passes. And too many Senate Democrats are ready to give the lobbyists and the Bush administration exactly what they want.
Please join me in calling on every Senate Democrat to do everything in their power — including joining Senator Dodd’s efforts to filibuster this legislation — to stop retroactive immunity and stand up for the rule of law. The Constitution should not be for sale at any price.
Thank you for taking action.
John Edwards
January 24, 2008
Hey Ian,
Isn’t this essentially what Edwards has been proposing as a stimulus package?
Bob in HI
Easy to see you didn’t watch A Daily Show last night. You remember when they used to say that war was good for the economy (Well, I do…) I don’t know who the guest was, someone I was unfamiliar with (never saw him before in my life) but he was pretty funny. Jon said something about they’re talking about $500 per person rebate and the guest said that won’t do anything. Then he kiddingly said (although with a straight face, which made it pretty funny) what you need is a war. Oh, no, he said, we’ve already tried that! WHY ISN’T THAT WORKING!
Guess you had to be there.
Applicable ancient wisdom from Art of War by Sun Tzu (400BC):
((((( Helen )))))
More like, in the “spirit of bipartisanship”, Pelosi will continue to stick it to the Democratic base …
im thinking if they would have let some peeps go BANKRUPT like they used to,(before new bill) it would have maybe served as a pressure cooker release valve…
Well, nothing’s stopping them from doing an emergency bill now, but also doing a longer term one later?
When push comes to shove- there’s a Keynsian hiding inside every gooper. Givin away some money will probably help.
FUCK BIPARTISANSHIP
Nancy Pelosi folded already on extending unemployment benefits and food stamps, things that would help people who are really hurting. I guess there aren’t too many of those in Pacific Heights.
Nope we were not there. Sometimes we are though. I get your point. ;0)
Well, some of the folks I work with will probably use it for “luxuries” like paying past-due utility bills so the electricity doesn’t get turned off again. These are 2-income families I’m talking about. It’s not pretty down here where wages generally suck.
I’m with you, Bro … bipartisanship has become another word for “screw the people” … kinda like ‘team spirit’ …
im beggining to hate that empty grin of hers as much as chimpies smirk
rich bitch
That’s about it. ;0)
Any link to what came out of the House?
The Democrat is a creature that displays honor by quitting and courage by capitulating.
I know where the big money is. Selling pencils on the street.
That would be good.
OT: TV Repub debate tonight on MSNBC after Olbermann, 9:00 PM
where oh where are the REAL DEMS i handed out peanutbutter crackers on the street the other day
Good lord. Does anyone think this micro shot in the arm is going to any good.
That was conservative humorist PJ O’Rourke
This is just a rumor so far, but I hope it does not come to pass. It’ll be worth objecting to if it comes to the table.
As for the pork aspect, note the comment, and compare that kind of pork to infrastructure projects.
ps: Compare also to TeddySanFran at 44.
The stimulus plan that Nancy and Steny agreed to was just another cave in to the Republicans. Boner threatened to pull all Repug support if extending unemployment and food stamps were not pulled from the measure, and they subsequently caved AGAIN.
Check out this link http://www.cbpp.org/1-22-08tax.htm This robert greenstien was on C-SPAN this morning explaining why tax breaks are not good stimulus and that unemployment extensions and food stamps are the best return for the dollar.
The downturn in the economy didn’t just happen like getting run over by a truck. The events of this week are just an economic 9/11 and an excuse for the Dems to pass more corporate tax cuts without having to take repsonsibility for them.
The real dems are the members of the American electorate; they just don’t know it yet, and neither do the Democratic leaders.
Here ya go:
Perhaps in addition to getting government subsidies for spending all that money on ridiculous wars, Halliburton, Bechtal and Blackwater, we can have government run soup lines. Please keep in mind we are the greatest nation on Earth.
Are you sure you didn’t misunderstand what she meant? That is, don’t you think she meant that moving ahead on the contempt citations for Miers and Bolton was what she had to promise to give up “in the spirit of bipartisanship” in order to get an agreement?
Capitulation is an act of honor and strength when performed by a Democrat.
Reid and Pelosi have got to go. Oh… and Joe Lieberman too.
… and also the greatest nation in the History of the World …
Well. That leaves out older people whose only income is Social Security and who don’t file taxes. Fuck ‘em…
Argh, you are of course correct. Fixing.
If we have soup lines, I’m sure all the wingnut Republican presidential candidates and their allies will insist on proof of citizenship to get a bowl of soup, to make sure we don’t accidentally feed any illegal aliens.
Actually, that would hurt the economy, unless you repurposed the money for other spending.
Yes, infrastructure spending in the US would be fine as stimulus because US infrastructure is way run down. As long as there are no “bridges to nowhere”.
The normal trick stop a recession is deficit spending- course we’re already doin that at a fantastic rate- and while there was some montetary policy tightening goin on- that’s all over now. We’re back to “Pedal to the metal—and pray that inflation doesn’t bite us in the ass”.
I should mention that Pelosi has said that there will be no extension of employment benefits (something the 2001 Republican Congress did do) and no food stamp increase.
As usual this Congress is in many respects to the right of the Republican one that proceeded it.
Obviously that’s the case.
Really helpful post, Ian. From the reports of today’s tentative agreement, looks like the Dems fell well short of the ideal — too much focus on tax payers (though the caps mitigated that), business credits that aren’t targeted at the underlying problem, no extra unemploymnent/foodstamp funding.
When Bush says, its the right package and the right amount, you know we’re in trouble.
I got one too. Someone posted it earlier. But there have been alot of threds today what with the live blogging and all so it’s good to put ot up again.
Here is the word I’ve been looking for to describe the behavior of Democratic leadership, groveling: to lie or creep with the body prostrate in token of subservience or abasement, to abase oneself, to give oneself over to what is base or unworthy.
Tax breaks aren’t the best way to do that. Just pay the companies directly to hire people, or put together a work corps yourself and hire them. Or just give the companies contracts that require hiring and tell them tha you’ll pay X amount more if X% of the employees are ex-veterans.
Not sure if you’re being snarky here; but assuming you’re not, this is from Glen Greenwald:
“Senior Democrats have decided that holding a controversial vote on the contempt citations, which have already been approved by the House Judiciary Committee as part of its investigation into the firing of nine U.S. attorneys, would “step on their message” of bipartisan unity in the midst of the stimulus package talks. . . .
“Right now, we’re focused on working in a bipartisan fashion on [the] stimulus,” said House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.), indicating that the contempt vote is not expected for weeks, depending on how quickly the stimulus package moves.
Brendan Daly, a spokesman for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), said “no decision has been made” as to when a criminal contempt vote would be held by the House.”
I’m sure the unemployed and those receiving food stamps will appreciate that those making $75,000+ won’t get a check.
All our Democratic leaders seem to know to do is divide and capitulate. Over and over.
I just love it when someone thinks I’m stupid. Especially relative to the extremely soft “science” of economics, and then proceeds to lecture me on the subject.
Tossing a few hundred bucks will do nothing.
Some will send it off the banks to pay down debt… They will be a tad less broke. No stimulus… banks get a $150BB onto their sagging balance sheets.
People without debt might get hair extensions, tattoos or Ipods… that will really kick star things.
The economy isn’t in a recession or even a depression… it is collapsing because the banks are insolvent, the people are insolvent and every one was using funny money to live. Now the banks and those debts are being bought by offshore banks. They won without firing a shot… just lending us money to hang ourselves with.
We need to give our people good paying jobs and the ability to do more than tread water. Not likely. We need to outlaw interest rates above 10% and toss out lots of debt… wipe it away. We’re bankrupt, corporations are going bankrupt, banks are, the US government is.
We were told to borrow and not to save… to spend and not to save and we are not down the rabbit hole.
We need a real deep paradigm shift to save this nation. The good old days are fast coming to an end.
Stimulating THIS economy is like getting high when you are dying. It feels ok and soon it’s all over.
Free market unfettered unregulated capitalism in the control of wall street did it.
Yes, I wrote it last night. I’ve updated. Thanks for the reminder.
Why did our Democratic congressional leaders roll over for Bush so quickly? It would have been worth delaying the relief for a few days in order to get a more effective package passed. We are the majority party; what are the Republicans going to do, filibuster the economic stimulus package while the economy and the citizens suffer?
Well, I am confused. Recently, something like a trillion dollars we didn’t have was given to the banks to preserve liquidity. Although how liquidity helps insolvency is anyone’s guess.
And now we have an “economic stimulus” based on more money we don’t have which will somehow magically fix the immediate problem how? And a carrot now, so guess who gets the stick later? And this is a Good Thing?
No offense meant if you’re refering to me. The problem with sarcasm is that even if I suspected that’s what you were doing (and I did) other readers may not get it.
Our economy is all smoke and mirrors as are these “fixes”. The emperor’s clothes my friend. No you see them… now you don’t.
People who subsist on SS are not by definition “Hardworking Americans”, we are dead weight. Best we go gracefully, in a bipartisan manner of course. You are allowed to maintain the audacity of hope however, while knowing you can do better.
Mahalo, Teddy! This is fuckery…
You are most gracious. Have a good evening. ;0)
But I was being snarky. I was saying that in the sense one would say, “Listen to what I mean; not what I say!”
And what, pray tell, did she get for it? I’m beginning to think Pelosi, like Ben in National Treasure, has no concept of the words “bargaining chip.”
She prolly got a Headscarf, which when worn, will open her up to even more criticism from the “Librul media” …
They caved again
Pa
thet
ic
Pathetic losers
If they really wanted to do any good the first thing they’d do is repeal The Financial Services Modernization Act (Gramm-Leach-Bliley) signed into law by Bill Clinton
Both parties are saying
We sent your job to China and doubled your cost of living. Here’s your check for $600.
No foodstamps. No extension of unemployment.
[s] Nancy you are brilliant! A fucking genius! [/s]
I wonder what the stimulus package would look like if this weren’t an election year. Has anyone mentioned yet that this stimulus is unlikely to arrive for 3 to 4 months?
World stock markets continue to react erratically to the recession. One day they’re in a panic. The next, they are ordering drinks before the bar closes. Along with some short term stimulus, I would like the fundamentals that underlie it like the unresolved subprime mess, cowboy hedge funds willing to bid up your old socks if they think they could get away with it, the ongoing energy crisis, sucky job growth, the tax cuts for the rich, and the borrow and spend policies of the Bush Administration.
The big joke is the tax cuts for business. The idea is that by allowing businesses to write off equipment quickly, they will buy more. That is just stupid. If a business needs some equipment, it will buy it, only now it will be cheaper. If it doesn’t really need equipment, why would making it somewhat cheaper matter? In the face of a recession, why increase your ability to produce, when there is no reason to think there will be people with money to buy whatever you make?
You are way overthinking this. To a Republican brain, it goes roughly like this: tax cuts, business, good. Stuff like results or consequences never enters into it.
A couple of observations and a question.
AmericaBlog’s John Arivosis says the current proposal likely to pass targets folks with family incomes around $75,000/yr for between $800 to $1200 depending on family/number of dependents. Then goes on to say you cannot compare a $75,000 yr income in NC to one in Washington DC–the disparity of buying power defeats the stimulus for a lot of urban folks. So he is dismissive.
I read Bloomberg dismissed the current proposal too in a speech in DC and then said (according to HuffPo) we need “more immigration”. What’s he talking about?
And as to $600-$700 rebates for me personally—my health insurance at Blue Cross went up this year by about half that amount. So much for my spending to make the economy boom.
For those who don’t know … [s] and [/s] stand for snark
Back to your regularly scheduled program
Ya, I’m not weeping for 75k/150k, it’s about 90% of the population that’ll get a check. yeah, 75K in Washington isn’t massive,but at the same time, sorry, you’re doing ok. And even in Washington 150K is pretty decent.
In fact, for a stimulus bill, this bill probably already goes too high up the income chain. Poorer people are more likely to spend.
That’s the sense I get of what they plan. Of course, the real longer-term plan is going to come from a Dem president in 2009.
I saw a hearing Baucus ran where they discussed options and how to get the monies out as fast as possible. It would seem we don’t have a natural mechanism in government for doing this sort of program. I’d suggest, after this experience, that they devise such a mechanism to be used only in these kinds of crises. After all, it’s not like this isn’t going to happen again some time.
Maybe after indexing the minimum wage to a cola we could index maximum interest rate allowable to the fed funds rate + X% (perhaps FFR+10%).
We have an understanding in the Dem party of how to let the free enterprise system (such as it is) and use government to provide a safety net and to regulate around the edges to keep everyone drawing within the lines. It’s only some extreme cases where something like a government Soc. Sec. or health care plan need to be added to the private systems.
If you think of people first, as John Edwards does, it becomes a lot simpler and obvious.