Emptywheel!

zed and to bed

boing boing flying forward one-and-a-half somersaults, pike position, no splash (’natch)

g’evening all. Marcy!

I’m proud to say both my Senators voted no immunity for the phone companies today. Hope my calls to both of them helped.

EW!!!

Fuck bipartisanship!

Hi Suzanne.

My friend thanks you for your good vibes today. Though the hospital was verrrrry slow, the biopsy went without insident & she’ll find out her results early next week.

We had great & lively conversation for the 4 hours we waited.

good news, eCAHN. haven’t heard from nahant’s sweetie yet on how his surgery went today.

We need to put lots of pressure on Hillary and Obama big time to get their tushkies back to DC and vote no on cloture.

Thanks, Marcy. It was damn tough to figure out what the heck was going on today.

Hey Marcy. I was sayin’ in the prior thread, I’ve been out of the FISA loop for I guees a month or more, so I forgot alot of stuff. If anyone could give me a link or something I’d be most appreciative. Here’s my query:

Aside from telecom immunity, what are the major differences/similarities between the SSCI bill and the SJC bill. Even in Deceember, telecom immunity was the big deal for me. Other than that, what are the big differences? A linmk would be appreciated. If any of you answer that, pretend I’m Reagan and keep it in small bites.

9.8! Bon Soir, Ma Cheri!

Not another Bush-Push to stick Americans with bad law.

Forget any bad feelings you may have towards Harry Reid. We’ve got three days to make sure he beats Mitch McConnell in an important showdown on FISA on Monday.

Great advice, the prize is worth it.

Marylanders! Join me in calling Mikulski tomorrow. I’ve already emailed her my disappointment in her vote today. She DOES read and respond to emails, so I’ll email her again about cloture.

wangdangdoodle @ January 24th, 2008 at 8:06 pm says,
Fuck bipartisanship!

Speaks for me.

They’ll be coming back to DC on Monday, but I don’t think the FISA debate has much to do with it. There’s this little SOTU speech Bush is giving on national TV that night . . . lots of cameras, lots of reporters, lots of opportunities for spin. Just the place for a couple of presidential candidates to be seen.

FISA is just a happy coincidence, I’m afraid.

Why didn’t the debate mods ask the rethug candidates about FISA?

Great news, eCAHN.

Marcy, thank you for figuring this out in your own great big mind and breaking it down so even I can follow it. You rawk.

Hope the beer goddess is smiling on you.

In case you haven’t seen this, the NYT endorses Hillary.

Landrieu, Louisiana’s very own DINO. She is seeing the end of her career at hand and is desperate to look as non-Dem as possible to save her seat. There will be phone calls in the morning, and e-mails, natch.

Yes, bingo. If they’ll come out and make this vote easy, it’ll go a long way to getting us a win.

just put it on the ticker - also endorsed st john

thanks emptywheel. evening dear friends.

Nobody gives a shit about FISA except us, the telecoms and some Rethug dorks who think they can angle the whole thing into “see, i toldja the democrats are weak on national security.” Not enough people care.

Because their bosses also support corporate sovereignty.

What if there’s a filibuster happening next door to the House Chambers…

Tim Tagaris at OpenLeft says that Reid has put in a bill for a 30 day extension of FISA, and that a cloture vote comes on that on Monday, before the cloture vote on the Senate Intelligence Committee bill.

Still can’t see the ticker, Suz.

Great summary and explanation. Time to let go of the hate, as Yoda would say, and focus on tactics.

We can hate later if we lose. :)

Hey TexBetsy.

Or, “because they’re too stupid to recognize the importance of the issue”

Or, “because they think their audience is too stupid to recognize the importance of the issue”

The SOTU is so bogus ever since it turned into a bunch of drunk old farts doin’ the wave. They oughta give ‘em thundersticks on the way in.

Hey Ron D. How are ya my friend?

My Demo governor is giving the SOTU Democratic response.

Let me know what you all think of her.

Possible VP material, maybe.

Forget any bad feelings I may have towards Harry Reid?

I don’t think so.

Napolitano?

This is about as good as it gets for us. We have a great window of opportunity to call the grass roots to arms (fax and phone) for three solid days.

I have to say I am really glad I sent a few thank you notes to Senator Lincoln D-AR in the last month. She is not one we should count on for the most part, but she is voting correctly on FISA.

Phew! thanks for explaining. I like your last sentence as my talking point:

Republicans are gambling our safety and our privacy with their obstruction, and it needs to stop.

Dems seem to respond to noises about fear and safety.

No, Kathleen Sebelius (KS)

The McConnell cloture vote is to shut down a filibuster. One of the delightful side effects of beating this back would be the potential for exactly what you describe.

But I’m not greedy. I’d settle for beating McConnell at 5PM, letting the Senate adjourn for the evening, pouring myself a glass of wine, and watching Bush melt down in the SOTU. Dodd can continue to talk on Tuesday morning.

First things first, though: McConnell must be stopped.

If you want a link, here’s SJC’s recent report on the FISA fight.

And while I can’t tell you the difference between SJC and SSCI right away (because I forget what got voted into SJC), here are the relevant issues:

Is FISA the exclusive means of electronic surveillance?
Can the Govt wiretap Americans overseas?
Does the FISA Court only get to review the government’s minimization procedures, or do they get to say the government isn’t fulfilling their own standards for minimization procedures (minimization is the process by which they get rid of US person data that they pick up incidentally to other taps)?
Can the government use a warrant to tap a group of people, or is it limited to one person?
Can the government use datamining to select its targets or not?
Should telecoms get immunity? Should the government pick up their liability? should FISC determine their liability?

My Demo governor is giving the SOTU Democratic response.

Crap. I don’t remember the weekend and I’m not even drinking.

Guess this means I can write wingnut history books now.

Hi Tex, Suz, everyone.
I only listened to a little bit of the FISA coverage today. My cabeza gonna esplode if I expose it to too much of that crap.

Not sure on that–I’m confused as is everyone here (particularly whether this vote precedes or comes after teh SSCI vote). But we need to make sure we get Dems behind Reid here. This one counts.

And our presidential candidates need to lead those who have endorsed them (Bayh and McCaskill, among others) to do the right thing.

Bayh is chair of HRC’s something or another, no? FISA is therefore the opportunity whose candidate she is to call Bayh and say in all sincerity that the title comes with the obligation to be on the same page as the candidate if he wants to be on the same plane–i.e. cabinet level, or is he angling for a Veep job?

What are the chances that the other 11 will listen to a non-constituent?

Like the choice of Webb last year, Sebelius could be quite good — especially in contrast to Bush.

For those who don’t know her, she has a record of reaching out to clearthinking republicans, and pulling them over to her side: literally getting them to switch parties, not just vote with her from time to time. She doesn’t straddle the aisle and call it noble; she grabs wavering republicans, points to the wingnuts (esp the TheoCons) who are running the GOP in KS, and says to them “Is this really the way you think government should be run?” One of her most recent high-profile decisions was to refuse to sign off on a big new coal-fired power plant, favoring instead a push toward greener sources of energy. The coal industry in particular and the energy industry in general are beyond pissed at her.

She may reach across the aisle, but not in the way that Bush or most of the DC crowd thinks about that phrase.

Fine, TexBetsy…treading water, at any rate, thank you very much…How are you?

Put them on ice, perhaps?

Have the Ditch Mitc people been mobilized on FISA? Anyone know?

That’s OK, Kirk. It hasn’t happened yet.

Just looking forward a few days.

Comment from Red State …

Good answer from Rudy by zuiko
Conservatism is already compassionate… it doesn’t need to be tempered with compassion.
—
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

That’s the sort of genius a yokel like me just can’t beat.

I’ve been better, but not terrible.

Excellent point. She’s with us here (or at least was on teh SJC bill). Now we have to get her to twist Pryor’s arm.

But it might not hurt to call her anyway, since we stand to lose some supoprt from the Blue Dems unless we get solid opposition to cloture.

Dems seem to respond to noises about fear and safety.

OOoh fear and safety!

Grow some bark, is how I’d respond. Toughen up–a lot.

LOL
Scarecrow rightly said I was appropriating a Bush talking point with that. I was. But intentionally. If you like it, use it.

What Peterr said.

Man. Would that be supreme, or what? I’ll be in DC for the SOTU next week–not sure where I’m watching. But I’d sure rather watch humbled Bush than arrogant Bush.

What hasn’t happened?

Are you my editor at Regency?

No. How do we mobilize them? Excellent point.

McCaskill is one of Obama’s national co-chairs, and I suspect she’s leaning on Obama *not* to push her on this.

Sprint’s headquarters is in Kansas City, and the voices from there are the ones she is listening to. If push came to shove, I think she’d listen to Sprint before she’d listen to Obama.

For a former prosecutor, that’s pretty sad.

Yeah, I so love throwing BS back at where it came from.

EW, is there such a thing as a humbled Bush? I’ve seen pissed-off Bush, fakey-smiley-jokey Bush, but humble?

Maybe we try to get Whitehouse to push her on his amendment? I’m not entirely sure he’s with us on the cloture vote (he and DiFi are possible defections). But he might be able to talk some prosecutor into her?

I’m with TSF…forget anger at Harry Reid?

I think suspending it for three days is probably the best I can do.

Okay. Done.

Man. Would that be supreme, or what? I’ll be in DC for the SOTU next week–not sure where I’m watching. But I’d sure rather watch humbled Bush than arrogant Bush.

Oh, it wouldn’t be a humbled Bush. It would be a pissed-off, angry-enough-to-spit-nails, pound-on-the-desk-with-his-shoe Bush.

And I would love to see it very, very much.

Are you sure she doesn’t listen to the voices in her head?

My point is, if dems feel “blackmailed” by Rs saying “you’re putting americans at risk if you don’t do things our way” then this is their button, so let’s push it. Say “ooo, we’re scared you’re putting us at risk if you blow it on FISA.”

Humbled Bush ?

… must be Bush41 … *g*

No, but he tried to play humble Bush when he went to Saudi Arabia last week and begged for money. So at least he’s been practicing the part, if unconvincingly.

Are you my editor at Regency?

What’s up, Doc? As if…

Well he does not wear it well, but Bush tried on his Humble Suit with the saudis.

Wha… while he was waving the scimitar around…? *g*

The last thing -telecom immunity - I knew. i just don’t see how the SJC bill doesn’t addess the Republicans concerns. Except, of course, immunity. I mean, if the SJC bill contained telecom immunity, wouldn’t the Republicans be able to live with it? Or still too much judicialoversight?

Thanks for the link. I really appreciate it. I’ve been looking around the internets myself, too. Thanks again.

IOW, Toddler Bush

Harry really showed his cards at the end of the day.. He knows he’s being played and yet he knows he wants the GOpers and the Administration to win.. But as he said himself, They are refusing to vote on their own bills.

Wake up Harry.. shake off the dollars and read your oath.

You mean Sprint sold out? I got rid of my AT&T landline and kept a Sprint wireless thinking I was doing my part.

Hey Marcy…what about the most important talking point? We don’t want President Hillary Clinton to have that much power without oversight, do we? ;)

Whitehouse might be good, but I’d say Leahy would be better. Someone has to tell her that there are times NOT to listen to the corporate interests back home, and that message has to come from someone who has been around for a while.

Also, from Leahy’s official bio, I noticed this:

In 2003 the National Guard Association presented Leahy with its highest individual honor, the Harry S. Truman Award, for his “sustained contributions of exceptional and far-reaching magnitude to the defense and security of the United States in a manner worthy of recognition at the national level.”

The recipient of an award named after Truman, given for the reasons stated, might carry a lot of weight with the woman who now holds Truman’s seat in the Senate.

My senator - McCaskill - has been a real disappointment. She voted today to table the SJC version of the bill and back in December, she voted for cloture against Chris Dodd.

I’m calling on all my fellow Missourians (and the rest of you fine folks) to flood her offices with phone calls, faxes and e-mails, telling her that’s it’s not too late - she can vote against cloture and for amendments to the SSCI bill. Especially amendments that say “No” to telecom immunity and basket warrants and that say “Yes” to minimization procedures.

Here is her web contact form:

http://mccaskill.senate.gov/contact.cfm

Here are her contact numbers:

Washington, DC
Phone: (202) 224-6154
Fax: (202) 228-6326

Cape Girardeau
Phone 573-651-0964
Fax 573-334-4278

Columbia
Phone:573-442-7130
Fax:573-442-7140

Kansas City
Phone: 816-421-1639
Fax: 816-421-2562

Springfield
Phone: 417-868-8745
Fax: 417-831-1349

St. Louis
Phone: 314-367-1364
Fax: 314-361-8649

What is the story on Mikulski, Carper and Inouye? They are in safe Democratic seats. Why are they voting against immunity. Are they just corrupt and in the pocket of the telecoms?

Heh, revenge of the vast left wing conspiracists? ;-)

she doesn’t have to bother: NSA sends her transcripts.

Peterr, which side do you live on, Missouri or Kansas?

No.

The problem (for the Republicans) is that they want to legalize a few things that Bush doesn’t want to admit he’s asking to be legalized. They are:

Basket warrants, which basically legalize datamining and non-specific wiretapping.

Big databases, made of US person data that they haven’t minimized properly.

Wiretapping of Americans overseas (which, I suspect, includes US wiretaps of American on cables overseas, rather than on Americans traveling overseas).

I’ve already started on Inouye, since he’s one of mine… At least Akaka voted right…!

I don’t know if they did or not — but I’m guessing they’d rather have the immunity than have to worry about lawsuits (whether justified or not).

ding!

I can answer my own question I think. Too much oversight.

So are you offering to call Leahy?

He’d be susceptible to a claim that this was all turf wars, the SSCI trying to assert its domination over SJC, because he said as much on the floor. He did sound pissed about that, after all.

MO - Jackson County, where she used to be the prosecutor.

I get it now, sorry.

What I tell my congressman is this:
Will you intercede for me if I get arrested with a bong?
Hahah! Gets a big laugh. I say no, I’m serious. Will you fight to make my actions retroactively legal and unpunishable by law? Cause that’s what you’re doing for these big telecoms, and they were spying on me and I did NOT like it. They knew they were infringing on my rights, you know it, and you want to make it all go away?
Are we all equal under the law in this great country or are some of us more equal than others?
Do you want to see a breakdown of law and order?

Aunt Babs has a rotary phone. Can’t say much beyond that.

Well done. Thanks.

You might appeal to her sense of law–she must know that this is all about letting Admin people off for sure legal violations.

nice questions, margot - what has been the response?

So are you offering to call Leahy?

He’d be susceptible to a claim that this was all turf wars, the SSCI trying to assert its domination over SJC, because he said as much on the floor. He did sound pissed about that, after all.

Oh, you’re good . . .

Yeah, I suppose I am.

Anybody know what’s with Spaceman Nelson? I thought he was a good guy back in December. He was one of the 12 who voted wrong today. What gives?

Well, if I’m going to call Leahy’s office tomorrow, I better get a good night’s sleep tonight.

G’nite, all!

Bong Hits for Jesus? ;-)

Very good question. I’ve been trying to do donor research on them.

I will say that Lockheed Martin, who I believe is doing a lot of the illegal wirteapping, has given big to Rockefeller, Inouye, Landrieu, Pryor, Mikulski, Pryor, and Nelson, not to mention Obama and Hillary, Dodd, Reid.

So I’d guess that’s a big issue.

Night Peterr!

g’nite peterr

I wrote McCaskill this afternoon because I gave her support when she ran. Could someone provide phone numbers for Hillary and Obama because they’d better vote, and why can’t they “lead” their supporters to join them?

Thanks for your patience and help, Marcy. This is important stuff, huh? I bookmarked the SJC report and I see what you’re saying.

Aloha, Peterr!

G’nite, Peterr. Sleep well.

geez louise, pups, ya’ll aint dugg this post yet? don’t make me put my hands on my hips now

The staffers kind of pause and think. And say, “Yeah, that’s right. No, we’re all equal under the law.”etc. So at least it gets their attention.

Maybe a few calls of encouragement to Reid?

Will you intercede for me if I get arrested with a bong?

Bongs are illegal? Damn.

Seriously, I think Margot has a really good point. Anyone notice that the ballplayers are now blowing off subpoenas cuz they’re not enforced for miers and co.? Let’s not forget Mr. Libby who scooted scot free and now the TELECOMS and the WHITEHOUSE! Yes, I’m YELLING NOW. Just forget about the law, forget about writi