UPDATE: — According to Howard Wolfson of the Clinton Campaign, Hillary Clinton will not be taking the 1 1/2 hour trip from South Carolina to Washington DC to join the Dodd filibuster — jh
FEINSTEIN: Terrorist surveillance program operated for four years and two months with no court review or approval outside the FISA requirements. The US has had a rather sordid history of using foreign surveillance for domestic purposes — taking about the Church Comm. Report. Going through history of breaches of Bush Administration and disrespect for the rule of law– signing statements, unitary executive assertions, and Art. II authority assertions against the Constitution. FISA court should have oversight — minimization strictures should be applied in accordance with law. Want to add in exclusivity language that was part of SJC bill — in agreement with SJC and Intel committees on this.
Domestic criminal wiretapping and surveillance must be done via warrant and other requirements by law. Must have either court order or a statutory authorization. (Amendment #3857.) Kyl objects.
REID: Talking about Veep statement yesterday at Heritage Foundation and Presidential statement today. They were both saying "Congress must act quickly," so why the GOP stall tactics on the amendments? We’re trying to act in the interests of national security, but we want to do so within the confines of the law and the constitution. The American people expect us to do this. We have tried to move forward on this legislation — but the GOP keeps stalling. Whassup? [CHS notes: Paraphrasing there...Long, rambly blahbity blah about the GOP not acting in good faith and blocking germaine amendments. The only thing I can say to this is "well, duh! Which is why we wanted the SJC bill to be the base bill in the first place." I need a drink.]
Asking unanimous consent to extend this for 30 days. Unless cloture is invoked, this is not going to be finished until Feb. 1st, Reid says, rather than pass a bad bill. Says McConnell is going to file cloture when he finishes — 30 hours would begin running, but vote will not be until Monday no later than 1:00 pm ET. If cloture is not invoked, unless Bush agrees to some extension time, then the program will fail. Cannot in good conscience support this legislation without improvements on very basic amendments.
Reid now brings up the House RESTORE bill. McConnell objects, and is posturing on the floor saying that the only bill the President will sign is the one that rubber stamps his illegal actions. [CHS notes: Well, that's cozy of him. And not predictable at all.] McConnell using the "bipartisan" language threat to push fence sitters in the Democratic party toward the GOP position.
McConnell now files cloture signed by 17 GOP members. Quorum call shortly thereafter.
Agreement for cloture vote on 4:30 pm ET on Monday (or maybe Tuesday — some confusion on that). Consent requested. Quorum call again.
Just confirmed that the vote will, indeed, be Monday. CANTWELL talking about stimulus measures on economy currently.
REID now asking that vote occur on Monday, Jan. 28th at 4:30 pm ET, that the requirements on 30-hours be waived, and various procedural requirements to make that work under Senate rules.
[CHS notes: In case anyone is wondering, this is a very good time to phone, e-mail, FAX and otherwise get the attention of your Senators to let them know that the Intel bill is unacceptable -- to vote no on cloture.]
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Christy!
Evening Pups!
Difi is sounding good, but, I’ll reserve judgment…
Christy! 2
Honesty and the rule of law are kryptonite to Republics.
Di Fi (D- Pac Bell)
She has had a way of sounding right and voting wrong.
Free the Gnome 135,000!
DiFi offers language making FISA Courts the “exclusive” arbiter of wire-tapping.
That one could provoke a veto… (or a signing statement, *s*)
Yup. She does. Consistently.
Rosalind wrote in the previous thread:
“National Treasure 3: Nic Cage steals a cache of Presidental signing statements hidden in a hollowed out Texas Ranger baseball bat hanging in the Lincoln Bedroom leading him to the bowels of Dick Cheney.”
I stopped reading after that.
Yeah, and then I think back to the Clinton impeachment when “honesty” and “Rule Of Law” was just about all you ever heard from them.
Gnome de Plume thanks you.
From Carolyn U, EPU’d from the last thread:
Whee!!! I’m in…
She does just enough to bluff her CA constituents.
DiFi is sounding good and saying all the right things but like Harry Reid, will she turn and run when the Repugs say, “Poof”?
I’m VERY Sad to hear Kucinich has dropped out. Is it now a three candidate race…or is Gravel still around being ignored? Now I have to make some hard decisions. But two absentee Senators may make the decision a bit easier.
Yes, but they were just empty words used to try to ‘get’ Clinton.
Ain’t that the truth! The screeching still echoes in my head.
“Honesty” and “Rule of Law”? That’s so pre-9/11.
(Raising arms, palms facing inward) “Stella!, Stella!
Oh, fuck… she said “bipartisan”…
He’s been renditioned by the Bush administration; first ya gotta find him!
They aren’t bluffed. Just really pissed. The Repugs love her. How many more years of Di do we have? Too many.
Reid is talking about the Cheney threat…
Tell me Harry fucking Reid is not quoting Mr. 25% JAR on the importance of passing this bill.
Wow – secret court not subordinate to the Supremes on FISA law?
Hmm – wonder who DiFi intends to have selecting the
Star ChamberFISA judges?They’re all for the Rule Of Law, unless it applies to them.
WTF is Reid doing sabotaging the first good thing DiFi has done is ages?
Difi reminds me of me: “Don’t you kids ever, EVER do that again! This is the last time I’m going to say it. Honestly, the last time!”
STFU Harry
Why didn’t you honor the hold?
Jeez, this ludicrous!
Is Reid pulling the plug???
We gotta hurry! They’re forcing him to listen to hours and hours of CSPAN recordings of Kit Bond and Orrin Hatch. He’s gonna crack at any moment…
Yeah, Jane. Unfortunately he is. I think they have his marionette strings well hidden via chromakey.
He actually made our evening news last night, with his speech introducing Articles of Impeachment on Bush. He looked and sounded great. It was the first time I had seen any Press time for Kucinich. I think he has a Primary fight to focus on now.
Harry’s still under the impression that there are 51 Democrats in the Senate.
“Senator Reid, please pick up the white courtesy phone – it’s a Senator Lieberman for you.”
Nail on the head!
Reid………
Reid is a traitor…..
I’m just tuned in….. no Hillary? no Obama? No shows?
Harry… honor the hold. Simple as that.
Don’t think he could sneak that one through with a signing statement. And if he vetos it then it eliminates this revised PAA and returns to the original FISA law. If he did it, the first thing I’d do as a Senator would be to offer a limited Amendment to the FISA law dealing with the issue of transnational message transfer to resolve the complaint made by the one FISA Justice.
Is there any way we can get the message to Reid that we are in the fu**ing MAJORITY!
Shoot, what’s going on? My CSpan is frozen again!
He is getting heat at home.
link
So deadeye decided to up the ante on “Fuck You?”
Hope the Sgt-atArms searched Darth before letting him on the Senate Floor.
What’s the problem? Are you a strict constructionist or something?
I thought it only froze when Dems were talking.
;)
Things electronic???
“Things electronic”
Harry Reid is a poet.
Why is Hairy Asshat acting so surprised that the repubs are shooting down what he thinks are “good” amendments? Is he really this clueless?
I contacted Obamas and Clintons campaign offices. Obama staffer said that Obama was campaigning is S. Carolina today and that he supports Sen. Dodds filibuster. (I was a obama supporter and made donations.) I told the staffer we we are not electing a supporter but a president and he needed to show leadership with the office he holds now. She bubububutted me. I told her no buts and that obama lost my vote and may I please have my donations back. Clintons staffer told me to call her Sen. Office
I’m not sure, but Reid is complaining about how the Republicans are objecting to every amendment.
cboldt or selise (or anyone else) can Reid pull the legislation, if he chooses to do so?
LMAO.
Excellent! Kudos!
Try here
Harry is wearing the yellow tie
c-span servers can’t handle added internet traffic because cable channel deletion?
Al Gore is a Tease!
With all that’s going on today, the news still has to stop to remind us of who our candidates should really be. It wasn’t bad enough that he won another award just the other day for waking the world up to the dangers they stand to face from global warming. Al has come out in favor of gay marriage. Today!
CNN says, reversing his previous position, and contrary to all the Democratic candidates for President, some of whom are in favor of civil unions but not gay marriage, Gore has come out in favor of gay marriage.
Why does this man tease us like that? Why?
Yes.
This is another case of simple answers for simple questions.
With only 35 Democrats in the Senate, it was game over when this crap got out of committee.
Sweet Heavenly Savior on toast points — does Reid always whine like this??? And his title is Senate Majority Leader? Cripes….
Constituent service: for the Corporatist Party.
thanks. I got it back.
Reid will vote against cloture
I have an idea, if you want to run for president you must resign from congress or any government post. Or, you must be in congress for 90% of all votes.
Reid: “The republicans are for failure?…” He’s just now figuring this out now? Jeebus.
Someone is challenging him in his Primary? Someone should put Dennis up on the Blue America list right away.
Reid is setting things up to go forward with a filibuster. I think this is good because lots of Dems will be on board (DiFi? and others?)
Joseph Heller
Harry Reid is an American Literature professor.
Can’t reid just take the bloody Bill off the floor then bring up the Judiciary Bill?
I don’t care what anybody says, that’s torture.
Reid will vote against cloture
Yeah. I heard that. It made my ears perk up. What cloture? No cloture motion has been filed yet. Reid just telegraphed that somebody is going to be filing a cloture motion, I assume soon, and I assume on the underlying bill as a whole.
Or if you were George McGovern and flew successful missions against all odds and survived, the republicans called you a peacenik pussy.
Reid’s whine… they won’t let us play… wah!!!
Harry’s taking his ball and going home…
Give ‘em hell, Harry!
I think that’s what he’s trying to set up.
holy fucking cow!!! – it’s really happening. the republicans are objecting to the amendments! make ‘em filibuster harry! don’t can’t to a cloture vote yet.
if i have it right, this is the moment when the rubber hits the road and we find out who stands where. will reid make them filibuster?
The Judiciary bill was shot down already, and yes he can pull the bill, now a temporary 30 day extension… WTF?
He’s threatening to vote against cloture unless the amendments are put up for a vote, or the current law is extended for 30 days.
Which, of course, Dirty Harry knew when he chose not to simply let the old bill expire.
Dodd is not going to go down without a fight……….
Yes, he does. Even in person. That’s what Searchlight , Nevada produces.
He’s trying to get an extension. This bill will not pass. HuzzaH!
Then again, maybe he is just trying to save face by saying the Rethugs are not fair, they won’t let us add amendments.
Go Harry Go! Woo-hoo!
*BELIEVE!!!*
McConnell will be filing the cloture motion. Under regular order, the cloture vote is on Monday.
my eyes are starting to glaze and i’m gettng punchy – when i look at reid all i see is dana carvey doing reid.
McConnell Reid’s friend is going to file cloture
I was just asking myself the same question. I guess he could pull the bill but that would only delay the ultimate outcome.
Cloture vote won’t happen until Monday morning if it is filed.
how can a cloture motion be in order before the amendments are disposed of?
City Councilman Joe Cimperman…is that pronounced Chimp-er-man? Or is it Simper-man? Anyone know if Dennis can use his Presidential funds in his Congressional race? If not I’ll wait until he can get his Congressional site up and running.
Who is that to Harry’s right, with the face like a fist?
Reid will not vote for bill if telecom immunity is addressed?
Was that the Bill? I thought it was an amendment to the pending Intelligence Bill? The Judiciary Bill is a separate deal?
What if we were to start a movement to get anyone who uses AT&T or Verizon to switch carriers?
“It’s not fair…” God. He sounds like a little girl.
When will the Democrats stand up and say they have no obligation to pass any bill?
“I in good conscience cannot support this legislation” – YES!
Look, Jello Jay was sure they’d get what they wanted today, and if they even have to wait until next week, we’ve done better than we thought in the gloom of the morning. It’s not voted yet, but every day with no immunity is a good day.
Go Harry!
*BELIEVE!!!*
LOLMcConnell: DO NOT WANT!
He actually has four challengers for a March 8th Primary. From the article: “Kucinich, 61, is facing four challengers in the Democratic congressional primary March 4, and earlier this week he made an urgent appeal on his Web site for funds for his re-election. Rival Joe Cimperman has been critical of Kucinich for focusing too much time outside of his district while campaigning for president”.
The act blue is a good idea. I know I will try to chip in a little next week when I get paid.
Consent to pass the house bill
Great idea..This idea of keeping the “day job” as back up is a joke. If they really want to be president they should be willing to go “all in”.
Harry’s trying to ramrod the House Bill now! Miss McConnell objects…
house bill is being brought up by reid!
I am not confused, McConnell! You are an obstructionist.
Huzzah!! AND must have served in the U.S. military for, oh, longer than it takes to escape having to serve.
McConnell is now chucking his toys out of the pram.
He will not vote for bill if telecom immunity is “not” addressed?
Who cares is the lying DNI pleads? No, really, who fucking care? Bond-Rockefeller Compromise…POS.
Who is the we? Progressives? Or Blue Dogs? Both?
Who he?
Why don’t each and every Democrat get up there an use the words “Republican Obstructionism”.
C’mon! Frame the debate!
Not smart, that means we would be down 2 Demo senators. The Rethugs would be down 1. Lets be smart.
McConnell: Chimpy won’t sign any other bill, so obey your leader and pass the damn thing. Giving the GOP all it wants is the bipartisan thing to do.
It was two separate bills, the Intel bill provided immunity and the SJC bill did not, similarly, the House bill does not contain Immunity, and Reid just tried to pass it…
Miss McConnell – “It’s not either our fault!
HR – “Yes it is”
MM – No it isn’t”
Now that’s a filibuster!
If I hear the phrase “we know the president will sign” one more time, my laptop my go hurling down a staircase.
Try 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Reid
this is bullshit. why isn’t anyone filing cloture motions on the amendments first?
that does have me confused.
Reid can pull the bill anytime he wants. He needs a reason to pull it though, or he’ll be pilloried by the administration.
Cloture motions can be filed on anything, at any time. It’s not unusual to file a cloture motion on an underlying bill before all the amendments are brought up for debate. There are myriad permutations of parliamentary order.
I can see why some people in his district are pissed..His voting record if full of “absent”. This has been going off and on for ten years.
Sure– isn’t that what he did in December?
Bob in HI
what are they calling the roll for now? I missed what was going on.
Swear to god, if Harry can’t hold his party on Miss McConnell’s Cloture Motion, he should be out of that job within the hour!
I can’t think of one job I had in my life in which I would not have had a stern warning on my fist offense of missing and expected to get paid. The next time I pulled a stunt like that I would have been fired and given a not-so-nice recommendation that followed me to my next jobs.
Actually, the Rs would also be down two – don’t forget that Brownback ran for a bit.
We’d be down 2 Dem Senators who aren’t bothering to show up to vote anyway.
If they needed either HRC or Obama’s votes for a positive outcome here, they both need to be shitcanned from the presidential race.
somebody fucking object!
Reid: quorum call terminated. Cloture vote on Monday – 4:30.
The cloture vote will occur at 4:30 on Monday, will be treated as though it occurred at noon. meaning if cloture is invoked, the vote on the underlying bill would come at 6 p.m. Tuesday, rather than 10:30 p.m. Tuesday.
Only if the “anything” is debatable.
Thanks cboldt — so how do you interpret this maneuvering?
You’re right, but I think the threats to censure DiFi (by progressive members of the California Democratic Party)may have got her attention.
OT:
Sports talk announcing DK dropping out so I am guessing its been reported.
Significance? (Not snarky — naive)
no UC yet. reid said he had one phone call to make yet. please god, let it be to someone with the stones to object.
how the fuck is this happening – that all the amendments can be ignored?
senator dodd – where the fuck are you?
He is getting heat at home.
Cleveland mayor endorses Kucinich challenger
Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson snubbed his local congressman, Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich (D-Ohio), and endorsed one of his leading primary rivals, Cleveland City Councilman Joe Cimperman, at a press conference this morning.
—
So whats this a Blue Dog getting the endorsement or something?
Monday night is SOTU night…Bushie wants to crow. So far he’s got Nancy co-opted… Harry….?
Dodd and Kennedy now has time to gather forces…….
Ours are better! Plus, wouldn’t it have been better if Edwards had stayed in the Senate when he ran.
how the fuck is it ok for the republicans to object to hearing the amendments, and that’s it?
Why must an oath to commit homicide when ordered be a prerequisite for the Presidency?
Trail of Tears.
Wounded Knee.
Philipine Inurgency campaign.
Joe Hill.
Bonus Army.
Indonesian insurgency capaign.
Bay of Pigs.
Operation Phoenix.
Archbishop Romero.
Palestine.
Iraq.
Oh – silly me.
not if this UC is approved.
Sports talk announcing
Sports talk announcing… that Harry just took his ball and went home!This is where the posturing ends..A brave or foolish Senator will start objecting to the UCs.
object!
Because if we hear the amendments, the Terrarist™ win.
that’s it.
where the fuck was dodd?
wtf…..
Edwards’ term was expiring and NC is not one of the states that allows a candidate to be on both the National ticket and as a candidate for lower office.
sad list.
WTF??? Why no objection to cloture? Or do we need cloture for the filibuster to proceed? I’m confused…
Saved for 1 more day – Jan 28 at noon.
Harry has a ball[s]?
;-)
My point was only that if being Commander in Chief of U.S. Forces is part of the job description, then it behooves that person to know what the hell he/she is talking about, vs., say, Junior Clusterfuck.
time…
Now, let’s see if Obama or HRC get off their statement-writing asses to show up at their day jobs on Monday.
either he has at least one – or he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night…
I interpret the current state of legislating as typical political maneuvering and game of guts. My guess is the administration will settle for the one month extension, before this is all said and done.
I was a bit surprised at the GOP objection to debate some of the amendments, after they allowed debate and a vote on the Leahy substitute, and then the introduction of a handful of additional amendments.
fucking assholes.
will someone please tell me i’m wrong and there was no way that reid and the dems could have made the he republicans filibuster those amendments?
‘cuz if i have this right, i am so royally pissed. maybe at dodd more than anyone else.
not. going. to. happen.
60 vote mark to tell Dodd he would be an “extreme outlier” to fillyBuster?
That frickin’ weasel — Reid made a perfectly good argument for pulling the legislation to make the Rethugs play nice and instead he caves. Harry Reid (R, Nevada) — Senate Republican Majority Leader. And rat bastard.
Tied up in the janitor’s closet.
unless the dems have done a vote count and think that cloture will fail?
Harry was acting and smiling weirdly.
What is going on?
Did he try to pull a fast one on the People and try to get the House bill passed (the one missing a “no retroactive immunity” clause)?
Or is he pulling a fast one on the Republicans, introducing the bill so that he can later table it? (I doubt it, based on how Bush friendly he and Pelosi have been acting)
Hoping someone can explain (again for me) the parlimentary maneuvers involved in general and in particular for this unfolding event.
Would Hillary and Barack be around for the SOTU on Monday?
ok, let’s see – there’s Jello Jay and JoeLie, but are there enough other Blue Dogs so that Miss McConnell can get 60 votes on Monday?
And Durbin’s a rat, too. The legislation does NOT need to be passed by Feb. 1st — LET IT EXPIRE!
There’s no point in objecting to taking the cloture vote at 4:30 and treating it as though it was taken at noon. One can’t object to a cloture motion, and the rules provide for certain time periods between filing the motion and voting on it – those time periods can be adjusted by unanimous consent, and the adjustments here are at least the same length of time as what the rules provide. That is, objection would not create additional delay.
This bill is effectively stalled for as long as the DEMs hold firm on getting the right to introduce amendments (by voting against cloture until amendments are allowed).
so Harry’s point was “waaaa…. this is not fair?”
If the Dems can pull in 41 votes, cloture doesn’t happen. This is a very good time to make lots of contact with your Senators.
I keep getting the feeling that Reid is trying to throw Americans off what they are doing with this FISA bill that they want so much. And it is not the one we want at all.
Durbin calling them out on a record # of filibusters by the Repugs.
Hey – hasn’t the Senate had the most “ghost” fillyBusters in history? What good is “fuzzy math counting” of them when they do not even in reality occur.
F’ them and their 60 vote deal. Getting 10 of those R’s would be hard enough never mind Joeloser (CT – R I D …whatever), and the “Blue Dogs” and the “DLC”.
reid make dodd fillibuster. why not the republicans?
Pulling the bill off the floor “out of the blue” is stupid. A failed cloture motion, or repeated objection to allowing amendments are good reasons to pull the bill, but pulling it at this point would work against the cause.
Don’t want to stray too much off topic but Kucinich’s opponent seems to have a lot of Cleveland Developers and Businessmen behind him.
Cimperman has massive Campaign Chest
Like I said before, Rockefeller said he thought they’d “prevail.” So far, they haven’t.
So we live to fight on! (And I’ll be that on the next debate we’ll have *all* the Senatorial Presidential candidates in on the action. Woo-hoo!)
At 10 or 11 am it was pretty gloomy around here. I think even this is far, far better than most people here would have hoped. Thank you, all of you here and all of our Senators.
It’s a testament to the power of intention, belief, and action. If we have belief and spine, so will they. WE did it.
YES!!!!!!!!!!
*BELIEVE!*
So are your trying to tell me that I should stop railing against Reid (for now ; ) ?
couldn’t a dem have filed a cloture motion on any of the amendments?
Okay, hear that. To the phones!
Great. We have Amy “Waffle” Klobuchar and Norm “Bush Jr.” Coleman in MN. Okay (sigh). I’ll try again.
So if I understand this correctly (which would be rare) if McConnell’s Cloture Motion fails Monday – FISA doesn’t come up again until Harry says so?
I guess if the motion to table could be defeated then the amendments could be filibustered. What I don’t understand is why someone does’t object to the procedural UCs.
My senator IS Harry Reid. Mercy! Get me a cool glass of water! Sometimes I pretend Reid is the Repug and my Repug senator, John Ensign, is a Dem. I really like John Ensign. I’m trying to
convertconvince him.So very sorry he’s dropping out of the Presidential race but Kucinich’s to introduce Articles of Impeachment the day of the State of the Union.
Reid can’t make anybody take the floor and talk. While it’s popular to think the Senate rules work that way, the rules just don’t have a tool to make a Senator talk. When persuasion doesn’t work, the powerful tools are objection, and the nuclear option for killing something, a motion to table.
Reid was blowing smoke when he said he would require “old fashioned filibusters” but not 60 vote margins. Well, where’s the old fashioned filibuster? And hey, look at this, a 60 vote margin is the next vote!
The problem is that you have just demonstrated that you are (1) smarter than most sitting Senators and (2) that you would probably actually stand up to Beloved Leader and Darth Cheney.
OK, been in court and busy all day. CAn someone tell me what the hell happened? Just saw Durbin closing up.
What happeend to the fillibuster?
Are there email addresses for Obama and Clinton that don’t require the Senate forms with local addresses?
I need to tell them I have no interest in them being President if they can’t bother to show up to support the Constitution.
Would Hillary and Barack be around for the SOTU on Monday?
—
They probably said if you go I will. Since they are the only ones who could really go and get camera time it does not matter much. Edwards bailed on the Senate so he would have to have as noted come to DC and spoke on FISA in order to get on camera. If he does not drop out he could go to DC for a speech or rally. He could even invite Clinton and Obama to each give a rebuttal to Bush.
Hey, it should have to be Pelosi to give the rebuttal, or Reid if tradition allows. Make them talk to us.
17(?) Dems.
“..sad….so sad… its a sad sad situation, and it getting more and more absurd!”
Name that artist????
Just give me the 30 second version
That’s correct.
Should be some relentless headlines on the blogs…big bold and in huge caps…
Your Congress wants the Administration to spy on YOU!!!!
Your Congress wants them to torture Too!!!
Say Goodbye to Democracy now – not even a shot fired – the Fourth Amendment is Dead.
And to really rub it in – “Congress shoots the Fourth Amendment and loses the War on Terror to Al Qaeda – America as you’ve known it is Lost”….
Happy friggin’ Voting!!
What I think I know is that I don’t know diddly-squat and I’ll wait and let Christy and Jane get off the phones with the folks in DC and in a day or two they will explain the maneuvering.
Then I will learn whether Harry Reid is still an id10t or if he is doing a reasonably strong imitation of a leader.
Christy: It is because of you that this lived to see the light of a new day! DiFi esp seems to have heard (and listened to) constituents.
elton john!
New drinking game: One shot for each mention of FISA in the SOTU, and a beer and a shot if “bipartisan” and FISA are in the same sentence. Any takers?
Geez, I stepped away from the computer to make a pot of soup and missed a lot. I kept CSPAN2 on, but could not hear anything.
So did the UC to have the cloture vote Monday bypass Dodd’s filibuster, or does he start it Monday after the vote?
Soup’s almost ready, plenty for everyone. Roma tomatoes, carrots, green beans, butternut squash, onion, garlic, basil, dill, yellow squash and zucchini.
Do you think cloture will fail?
ha, James, that’s Elton John.
January 24th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
195
Are there email addresses for Obama and Clinton that don’t require the Senate forms with local addresses?
I need to tell them I have no interest in them being President if they can’t bother to show up to support the Constitution.
These idiot congress critters DON’T SEEM TO WANT email from anyone outside their district. Really dumb, I wanted to send and “attboy” to the downstate illinois giy, Nadler? who voted against the “home grown terror act.” one of the few “no” votes.
And i couldn’t.
so what happened today? anyone? the elevator speech version?
Ding Ding Ding
It isn’t possible to file a cloture motion on an amendment that hasn’t been taken up. The procedure for setting amendments aside operates ONLY by unanimous consent, so when one senator objects to setting aside the pending amendment to bring up another, the original amendment is sitting there, pending.
Cloture motions could be filed (to limit debate) on any of the pending amendments, but given the procedural stance of this bill, it makes as much sense to file the cloture motion on the underlying bill/substitute amendment as it does to file a cloture motion on Bond/Rockefeller #3911, or Feingold #3909, or Bond #3916 (all offered today, and all currently pending).
An “old fashioned” filibuster would require 67 votes for cloture in todays senate.
They are likely trying to unseat him with money and or having him mess up his campaign finances. Hope he wins his seat (he should be able to get plenty of money), and glad he was in the race, but did not vote for him. It was sad to hear UFO’s got more time than Global Warming in the race thus far.
–
Also off-topic they also moved the Roger ‘roids panel away from this Saturday. What with the perilous problems and Davos and all.
To be a know-it-all:
No filibuster today. This morning there was debate. Then there was a vote to table the SJC version of the bill. It passed 60-34 with the help of 17 Democrats, including the usual suspects such as Bayh, the Nelsons, and Landrieu. Then Democratic senators tried to introduce many perfectly reasonable amendments. The Republicans objected to them all. The Republicans then filed a cloture motion. Reid was angry that the amendments were not going to be voted on and said that he would not support cloture. Reid’s lack of support for cloture and more calls from the rabid lambs may peel off a few of these 17 Democrats and we would not get cloture at all.
Because those w/their hands on the crown think like Dr. Hirsch. Are in essence Dr. Hirsch. Wish it was just fiction, but we’re continually living it, so, I guess not.
Dialogue from the reveal in Bourne Ultimatum:
Dr. Albert Hirsch: You haven’t slept for a long time now. Have you made a decision? This can’t go on. You have to decide.
Jason Bourne: Who is he?
Dr. Albert Hirsch: We’ve been through this.
Jason Bourne: What did he do?
Dr. Albert Hirsch: It doesn’t matter.
[walks over to Bourne and leans down]
Dr. Albert Hirsch: You picked us. You volunteered. You said that you would do what it takes to save American lives. You’re not a liar, are you? Or too weak to see this through? This is it. Let go of David Webb. Will you give yourself to this program.
[Bourne, after a short pause, stands up and shoots a hooded man to death]
Dr. Albert Hirsch: You’re no longer David Webb. From now on you’ll be known as Jason Bourne. Welcome to the program.
Mmmmmm….!!!
that’s exactly what it sounds like – there wasn’t 17 fucking dems to sign a cloture petition.
Reid actually just pulled a decent procedural maneuver. They were going to lose a vote today had they gone straight to the Intel bill, I think. But becuase the GOP were being utter jackasses today, the Dems now have a legitimate shot of not allowing cloture on McConnell’s motion if we can gin up 41 votes.
Which means we need to hit the phones, FAXes, e-mails and local staff nonstop between now and Monday on this. For every single Senator.
I can’t believe Obama and Hilary wouldn’t want to fillibuster this bill.
Forgetting the merits, imagine the PHOTO OPP. I mean, seriously. They could look good, make a speech defending the CONSTITUTION and rail at the PREZNIT. What’s there not to like?
What just happened? Is it going to be voted on Monday? At 4:30 PM?
That’s right before the State of the Union? I wonder if that’s planned to alloow the Democrats to hornswaggle Bush, who will have little time to digest what happened, and then use the rebuttal to the SOTU to explain the situation better than the spluttering President.
If Bush loses this, minutes before the SOTU he’ll likely be livid and ranting about it during his speech and very “off message”. Maybe that’s what Harry’s got up his sleeve?
That’s correct.
I’m not sure I know how to act now…
Yummm! I’ll be there! What can I bring – some French bread? Wine? Dessert? (I have some steamed cranberry pudding with a hot butter and cream sauce. (-: )
and why not on the pending amendment?
replyReply
4jkb4ia January 24th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
214
In response to Tominator @ 194
Thanks 4j,
one other thing? So when is the fillibuster? Does Dodd only fillibuster the bad bill when it moves for cloture? or what is the timing of it? Is Dodd still committing to a fillibuster?
Intel committee bill is up for cloture vote on Monday 4:30. Rethugs are trying to quash any debate on amendments to bill. Judiciary amendment was debated and defeated, 60-34, by usual suspects, all rethugs and most of gang of 14.
TJ- look here for form
http://act.credomobile.com/campaign/wiretapping08
The chance to kiss babies for cameras, eat rubber chicken in front of fat guys in polyester suits, and point at people from on-stage like rock stars do.
Wel Clinto can Kiss her ass goodbye as far as I’m concerned, and if Obama does not show and Edwards does not bring it up I’m doing a write-in for Dodd!! Clinton is such a puke!
would not a cloture petition on an amendment have been a delaying tactic?
Dodd can’t really object to the timing of this cloture vote – the timing is “the same” as it would be if Rule XXII is followed. Dodd also can’t prevent a group of 16 or more senators from filing a cloture motion.
Likewise on treating the 4:30 cloture vote as if it happened at noon – no big deal, because the vote is SUPPOSED to happen at noon (actually earlier than that). The timing is “important” only because it sets the time for voting on the underlying issue (in this case, the Intelligence Committee substitute amendment) as sometime Tuesday evening.
But that timing is out the window if cloture is rejected. Given the posture of the GOP, to object to all further amendments, I think cloture will be rejected. The Senate isn’t limited to one month extensions of the current abomination, the Protect America Act. They could remove the sunset provision entirely, or extend it month by month.
You can’t invoke cloture on an amendment if there is an objection to even introducing the amendment. That was the problem.
Edwards has already brought it up and urged filibuster support of Dodd.
I just want to say here publically what I told Reed’s office yesterday: If retroactive immunity passes, don’t count on me for money, volunteering, or even jawboning come the general election. I might pull the lever for the Democrat rather than Nader…. but if my privacy and the constitution mean no more to the Democrats than they do to the Republicans, I guess I really don’t care which party gets the White House.
Already called Leahy and Sanders. Don’t forget calls to Reid, and “the front runners” – see if they can take some time from their busy schedules.
but several of these amendments were already introduced back in december – weren’t they?
Am I late to the discussion with this: http://www.johnedwards.com/new…..0124-fisa/
You and me both — I demand much more of our so called leaders than the lip service they’ve given us so far.
They had “the math” and just had to setup to allow a few people to vote in the minority. What is Ron Paul saying about this issue?
that’s what happened on dec. 17th. dodd’s amendment was introduced and reid offered a UC to vote on his amendment with a 60 vote requirement for passage. dodd objected – i do think that is why reid pulled the bill in dec… the republicans were going to have to filibuster dodd in order to make dodd get 60 votes for passage of his amendment.
i don’t understand why a cloture petition could not have been filed – other than a lack of signatures. (or reid thinks that the cloture vote will fail).
I don’t think so. Several of them, like Whitehouse’s, came up in committee — but were then withdrawn when they didn’t have enough support. They weren’t introduced in December for the Intel bill once it got to the floor — most of them had come up in SJC or Intel while it was in committee. My understanding — and I’m not a parliamentary expert by any means — but my understanding is that it has to be on the floor and introduced before a motion can be made thereon. And if there is an objection to it being introduced to the floor, then no subsequent motion could be made.
Which is why I was saying the GOP were being utter jackasses and their behavior gives us an opportunity, I think, to press the “no cloture” issue with a lot of the fence sitters.
and why not on the pending amendment?
Because the pending amendment(s) (Feingold, Bond/Rockefeller on rights of Americans overseas) aren’t contentious, and they can be voted on easily before the substitute amendment needs to be finally handled.
What’s contentious is not allowing the introduction of other amendments (and the contents of some of those amendments is contentious – a few ideas came up today that I think the administration wants to avoid public awareness and debate of); and the substitute amendment with absence of telecom amnesty is contentious.
I have to conclude thatteh GOp considers a delay to work to their political advantage, and that month by month extensions of the PAA permit the intelligence community to continue snooping without court oversight.
“In Washington today, telecom lobbyists…”
-Edwards
Obviously, I’m hoping cloture won’t pass, but wouldn’t it be fun if Dodd was filibustering during the SOTU — the Chimperor wouldn’t like that, nosiree bob, not at all ; )
Obamas Campaign Phone # 866-675-2008, Clintons 703-469-2008
it’s a reach: gnome man is in aisle-land.
I picked a fine day to be busy. I have missed dang near every bit of this.
…They should do everything in their power — including joining Senator Dodd’s efforts to filibuster this legislation — to stop retroactive immunity. The Constitution should not be for sale at any price.”
-Edwards
hey – i’m trying to learn all this stuff, and i’m not even a lawyer. so not claims here that i’m not completely full of shit.
but i’m trying to understand.. and some of this just doesn’t make sense to me yet. we know dodd had an amendment that was offered up in dec. what happened to it?
certainly here were a bunch of other later, amendments… but i thought that there were some submitted in dec – for example dodd’s amendment to strip immunity. where did that go/
you expect cloture to fail?
is the cheney thing live?
Hi folks….
I am compelled to add my invaluable insight to this thread….
Heads Up!
Cheney on C-Span2….
Noooo…..
ack! i need brain bleach.
There’s a difference between introducing an amendment (getting its contents published in the Record) and having that amendment pending.
All Legislative Actions on S.2248 The only action in December was advancing the bill itself from “on the calendar” to “pending. No amendment was made pending in December, although six amendments were introduced in December.
Someone forwarded me an email re Edwards speaking out (link to his website here: http://www.johnedwards.com/new…..0124-fisa/.
I don’t see any mention on CNN or MSNBC. If Edwards wants msm attention, maybe he should say something like: “I’m tearing my hair out over this FISA bill! Why aren’t Obama and Clinton standing up for the Constitution? Their dereliction of duty makes my hair hurt!”…or something like that.
there were no pending amendments? none at all?
Must find a safe place will have to change channel…
Geesh….
(I think Cheney was taped earlier…)
Cheney doing the mushroom clouds and beheadings.
Its all steathy and catistrophic ans stuff.
We have to Marshell things.
Necessary steps as well.
I do expect cloture to fail. The Democrats can’t stand to have the bill pass without more airing of the contentious issues, where the “airing” includes votes.
And the delay doesn’t produce any substantial ammunition for the GOP, as long as the Dems are willing to pass a PAA extension.
Yes, yesterday…
Hmmm…seeing as to this being a FISA debate brief intermission…
Let’s see what’s up in the upstairs thread…
Aloha for now….
That was voted down — I think I linkedup the vote on that yesterday in one of my posts. I’ll see if I can grab that link in a little bit (am making dinner here, so it may be a few minutes…but I think the vote was 76-10.)
Selise, can you repost the links for contacting our critters…?
there were no pending amendments? none at all?
That’s correct. Six had been introduced on that day, and maybe even discussed on the floor, but zero were made formally pending. The way the action went, the bill itself wasn’t pending, and the motion to take up the bill was objected to by Dodd. After Reid relented, Dodd permitted the bill itself to become pending, and that was the last action. And that action, the bill itself coming pending, happened late at night, when only a few die hards were watching. The next day the Senate was off on a completely different subject.
What they are not talking about is that the spying could include everyone’s info since that establishes a base of “normal info” and just do normal stuff like bribe people with and get some clues on their theories.
Darth talking about “with (cough) President (cough) Bush’s signature…”
- Day of reckoning so close at Hand.
Man..I hope you are right. I suspect McCain will be a no show..so 48 Thugs+Lieberman=49…11 Bush Dogs needed…I will have to review the list of the “usual” suspects to see who might come to Jeebus. Lincoln and a Nelson come to mind.
Regrettably, the only way to get the MSM to pay attemtion to this is… to get the MSM to pay attention. That is, until someone (such as the NY Times Editorial Board) says, “shame on Clinton and Obama for not being present for this debate,” then none of the rest of the MSM sheeple will pick it up, either. But once oe MSM outlet jumps on, the rest will jump on too (like lemmings in reverse).
He is really spitting out the descriptive verse in his speech.
christy – just telling me it was yesterday is good enough, thanks for that. please have a nice dinner with your family. i don’t expect to get answers to all my questions tonight (and i don’t expect you to have answers for all of them either). just trying to not what they are… and very much appreciate the pointers to other posts i missed. i’m woefully unprepared for today. i thought it was’nt going to happen until next week.
I’m going to try to get folks here in Hawaii to work on Inouye. He’s good buddies with Sen. Akaka, so maybe we’ll just ask Dan I. to listen to Dan A.
CTuttle, you got your ears on?
Bob in HI
11 Bush Dogs needed
Senators vote differently when the very issue at hand is stifling of amendments. Many of the Democrats on the AYE side of today’s vote will not vote to limit debate, under the conditions established by Republican objection to debate and vote an any further amendments.
There’s no significant downside. The GOP will have a hard time sustaining the fairy tale that the DEMs created this delay, and the delay has no substantive downside, with extensions of the PAA being offered by the DEMs.
Yes, they say he’s still alive. But I believe he’s one of the undead.
It’s always those damn science majors stirring up trouble..looking for answers. It is so much easier to make shit up and call it fact and opinion.
LOL !!!
In response to Steve-AR @ 265
Ha! I say don’t pass *anything*! Bush can’t veto it if it ain’t even on his desk. The old law is better than the SSCI version.
Can’t we get someone better then Jello Jay to lead the SSCI? That’s an important committee!!!
Bob in HI
my pleasure.
senate
house
The Thugs own the fairy tale machine and Dems are afraid of being call weak on terra. McCain said today the Hillary would surrender to the terrists and the MSM dutifully reported and a significant number of voters will believe it.
Oh yeah, I’m pissed at Inouye, at least Akaka listened to us…! Do you have a link to Inouye’s web site, I’ll be calling his office too!
Mahalo, Selise! *g*
lol.
i hope we can get a few people together to work through the details on the threads until we’re pretty confident we understand what has happened… sorta like we did after the fisa vote in august. would you be up for that? maybe sometime this weekend?
i really miss pow wow.
Hey Buddy, can I send you an Arctic cold front ?!! *g*
pow wow has commented a few times at Glenn’s in the past few days.
Did something happen to pow wow?
Heh, it certainly feels like one has descended upon the Isles, it’s been mighty nippy of late…! I’m sure I can’t drum up any empathy from ya’ll tho… *g*
The idea of voting against immunity is so fundamental to upholding the Constitution and each Senator’s oath of office. As much as we all want a Democratic Administration, it is hard to see the point of one if we are only going to be getting more of these pathetically weak ethically lacking legislators. No courage, no leadership, no representation; just self serving weasels banking that only a few are paying attention. Why should we vote for any of these people, donate to their campaigns, phone bank or knock on doors when they betray us or capitulate over and over. Let’s face it, we can count on one hand the Senators that are real patriots and serve the people and not just themselves. I wonder how they would feel if we weren’t there on election day for them, because they sure haven’t been in the people’s chamber for us when we need them? If they had been fighting for us the last 7 years we would not be in the mess we are in despite the “W” Presidency. We certainly have enough goods on Bush & Co. that he may well have been an impeached President with a few imprisoned cohorts. Am I the only one that is exhausted from disappointment?
You’ll get empathy from me when your hockey team plays like idjits for 10 years … *g*
Reading back through some of the comments ….
would not a cloture petition on an amendment have been a delaying tactic?
Nominally, a cloture motion is a hastening action, not a delaying action. Without cloture, debate is unlimited. With cloture, debate is limited. Cloture is used to push things along, against the objection of a minority of senators.
But the cloture process can also be used to justify pulling something completely from the floor – and in those cases (obviously, where cloture is rejected – nominally calling for MORE debate time, but giving an excuse to stop debating), cloture creates an opportunity for delay.
Right now I am on a very steep learning gradient.
Hey, don’t knock my Oilers, they went far last season, once again tho, they’re at the bottom of the West… 8-(
Well, however bad they are, they will never take ‘The Biggest Losers” title from the Maple Leafs ! *g*
good, then i feel better.
thanks.
… can a motion to proceed be filed on an amendment, or is that only on the underlying bills?
thanks, i haven’t been keeping up on the blogs for a week or so… that’s good to know.
phred – i just haven’t seen any comments here from pow wow in a long time. and he/she was a great person to have to converse with. especially when the topic was fisa. and a really nice person too boot.
The Daily Digest (Example) will have a concise summary of the parliamentary posture and events leading to that posture.
Right now, the bill is pending with a massive substitute amendment, plus
Bond/Rockefeller S.Amdt.3911, protecting prvacy of Americans abroad
Feingold S.Amdt.3909, amending S.Amdt.3911, and calling for the FISC to report its legal rationales to Congress
Bond second degree S.Amdt.3916, amending Feingold S.Amdt.3909 so that pleadings before the FISC are not reportable.
After that, all offered amendments were met with objection. Whitehouse’s S.Amdt.3908, Cardin’s S.Amdt.3859, A Kennedy amendment (I missed the number, if one was recited), and Feinstein’s exclusivity amendment. At this point, following four sequential objections, Senators Reid and McConnell came to the floor and had their tit-for-tat exchange on the underlying bill. Reid maintains that the Democrats won’t let the bill pass unless amendments are permitted to be debated and voted, and Republicans (who object to taking up amendments) are blaming the Democrats for late and slow action.
Funny you say that, I was just wondering about you yesterday — then here you are this afternoon : ) Nice to see you again…
interesting read
http://www.swans.com/library/art14/carenc26.html#3
me too. but this is, i think, what’s called a teachable moment. we have all this good evidence before us.
it’s like data to analyze. what scientifically minded person can resist that? its drugs to the addict. *g*
was taking a few days off (mostly ‘cuz i od’ed on the primary coverage throughout the blogosphere)… but ES emailed me yesterday about what was up. knew that i wouldn’t want to miss today… and good thing also, ‘cuz i was thinking that i had until next week!
I took myself off of Clinton’s email list and sent this to her campaign website. I am very disappointed to hear she is not supporting Dodd. It is disgusting to think that the telecommunications companies are a few days away from immunity for illegal acts. Disgusting. What is this country coming to.
Email to Clinton Campaign:
Dear Senator Clinton,
I am disappointed that you have decided not to assist Senator Dodd in his filibuster of the FISA bill before the Senate. This issue is so fundamental to who we are and the type of leadership we need in this country. If you are not willing to stand up for the Constitution now when you have the power, how do we know you will do the same when you are president.
There is no reason to give the telecommunications companies a pass on illegal wiretapping that they benefited financially from. This would be an unprescidented action of the Senate against the rule of law.
Please support senator Dodd and our Constitution.
Until I hear that you are supporting the Constitution I will not be supporting your candidacy for president.
Sincerely,
can a motion to proceed be filed on an amendment, or is that only on the underlying bills?
Only on a bill. The introduction of amendments is something that is a matter of “right,” but it is a tightly managed “right” of a Senator.
The rules permit at most three concurrently pending amendments. A substitute (which in effect becomes the bill), a first degree amendment to the bill (or to the substitute), and then a second degree amendment, that is, and amendment of the first degree amendment. There is no such thing as further degrees. Once these three amendments are offered and made pending (which any Senator holding the floor, but usually reserved to the majority leader, has the power to do), the “amendment tree is full” and no further amendments may be considered until the pending ones are disposed of.
The mechanism by which the rules are bypassed (and they are bypassed more often than they are adhered to, in this regard) is unanimous consent. “I ask unanimous consent that the pending amendment be set aside …” is what one will hear or read in the Record. Any Senator can object to this setting aside — that’s what happened today — and there sits the bill with “whatever” pending.
The presence of objection isn’t just a matter of form, it’s also a signal of an underlying political posture, in this case the Republicans have signaled that THEY are willing to obstruct the introduction of DEM offered amendments.
In other cases, recently on “the farm bill,” it may be a DEM who fills the tree and objects to Republican amendments. As I noted earlier, there are a myriad of permutations of form, and the underlying motivations and intentions are usually (but not always) clear from the form.
Here is the problem:
We need to keep what we have and “turn” three of these people. 41 isn’t the magic number it is less than 60.
Didn’t Reid say he would force the rethugs to ACTUALLY filibuster (amendments)? How does that factor in?
And what 3 amendments are currently pending?
How to force an up or down vote on THEM?
Sorry, post was a reply…
Didn’t Reid say he would force the rethugs to ACTUALLY filibuster (amendments)? How does that factor in?
And what 3 amendments are currently pending?
How to force an up or down vote on THEM?
HRC has never said that she is bi-partisan. Obama keeps talking aobut changing Washington. Here is his chance to prove that he can change votes. If he can claim to changing the mind of Rockefeller, the two Nelsons, or any other Democrat who is voting with the Republicans, he’ll convince me that he is in fact about change. I won’t hold my breath. I will support Edwards and puke if Obama is the nominee. He is all talk.
Since I’m a constituent and had just made a gushing phone call yesterday, thanking him for his support of Dodd in December, I intend to be on the phone to Nelson’s (FL) office first thing tomorrow. This time I’ll try to get past the intern who answers and get to someone who can speak to whether there is any chance of his voting no on cloture.
I’m confused about the timing of the vote, at 4:30, right before SOTU. What happens if they’re in the middle of debate, or voting, or filibustering at that point? If they have to adjourn to attend the speech, does that mean that whatever’s going on is suspended, or will poor Chris Dodd be preaching to an empty room, or what?
We need to keep what we have and “turn” three of these people. 41 isn’t the magic number it is less than 60.
It took all of those names to reach 60. Assuming all four absent senators are in town Monday afternoon, at least two of them will vote for cloture (making 60 into 62). If Obama and/or Clinton vote for cloture, more than three need to be turned.
I think that turning them is inevitable, unless there is a backroom deal that permits certain DEM amendments to come up for debate and vote. Salazar and both Nelsons generally object to passing bills via “unreasonably limiting debate,” even if the bill is something they support. There may be some GOP Senators who cross over on the same grounds … Specter comes to mind.
With the distraction of the economy, and availability of an alternative (extension of the odious PAA), there’s not much pressure to wheel and deal on FISA – cutting off certain objectionable “might pass” amendments in exchange for some easily rejected “play show” amendments, or deals on unrelated legislation. I think the most likely outcome is failure of cloture, passing an extension, and a vow to take up S.2248 shortly after handling other, more urgent matters such as the economic stimulus package.
Marcy has a good post on where things stand.
Hello CTuttle
Been away all day. Not one scintilla of FISA where I was. Let’s see how fast I can catchup with a DVR of the Senate.
I know what can change Blue to
Red faster than your high school chemistry set–Hillary Clinton as the nominee. That will bring Republicans out of the woodwork to set a record vote and really jeapordize the White House to all these bastards you’re learning to hate as you watch S. 2248 screw you.
No siree. Feinstein diunnnnt sound good; she sounded “low bad sick” as they say in some inner city hospitals. She sounded like the same moron she has always been. She’s simply cloaking immunity in sheep’s clothing.
AsBrother Greenwald has commented
Democrats voting to kill the Senate Judiciary version denying immunity to Telcos:
Update: The final tally was actually 60-36, not 60-34, and the full list of Dems voting to kill were: Sens. Evan Bayh (D-IN), Tom Carper (D-DE), Daniel Inouye (D-HI), Tim Johnson (D-SD), Mary Landrieu (D-LA), Claire McCaskill (D-MO), Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), Bill Nelson (D-FL), Ben Nelson (D-NE), Mark Pryor (D-AR), Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), and Ken Salazar (D-CO).
Didn’t Reid say he would force the rethugs to ACTUALLY filibuster (amendments)? How does that factor in?
It doesn’t. Reid’s comments in that regard were hollow bluster. He can’t make any Senator “actually filibuster,” and no other Senator has that power either.
And what 3 amendments are currently pending?
See Post 292 above for a list.
How to force an up or down vote on THEM?
There isn’t a way to force it (other than cloture), but I think there was agreement to limit debate on them in any event. In fact, I think the interested Senators were done advocating, and there would have been votes on those amendments tonight, if other amendments had also been allowed.
It’s typical for a few amendments to be “hanging” between the underlying bill and a cloture motion on the underlying bill. They are usually passed, although sometimes with amendments negotiated out of sight. I’ve seen some radical changes in the form of “passed with the modification at the desk,” where a substantive amendment was totally gutted.
Hillary! had one on airport security, where the modification changed the amendment (not voted on) from adding screeners or some such, to calling for a study. The modified amendment (calling for a study) was passed on a voice vote without debate.
The point being that the eventual disposition of the pending amendments could be just about anything, including action that is a vote in form only, because the guts of the amendment are dealt with generally out of sight.
Another form of disposition is to vote on the underlying bill without ever dealing with the intervening amendments. The intervening amendments simply disappear, are mooted. Sometimes they reappear in separate legislation.
’m confused about the timing of the vote, at 4:30, right before SOTU. What happens if they’re in the middle of debate, or voting, or filibustering at that point?
The vote will be conducted in less than 30 minutes, easily. By unanimous agreement, at 4:30, whatever is going on is dropped, and voting starts. They’ve agreed to stop debating, filibustering, or whatever else is happening, and conduct the mandatory roll call vote prescribed by the cloture rule.
great stratergery!
i am going to call and do that, too.
brava!
To change the mind of those individuals, you would need to perform a pre-frontal lobotomy. Mr. Obama trained at Harvard Law, not the neurosurgery residencey at Harvard.
Senator Clinton has stated through her media flack Howard Wolfson, that she is not going to wrinkle her pant suit travelling from South Carolina to D.C. just for some lil ‘ole historic 4th Amendment vote.
My predictions from 9 months ago (no big feat) are becoming true.
Let me see–so in summary you’re blaming Obama for the state of affairs now with S. 2248 is that correct?
How about the Dems voting to kill the SJC bill?
Update: The final tally was actually 60-36, not 60-34, and the full list of Dems voting to kill were: Sens. Evan Bayh (D-IN), Tom Carper (D-DE), Daniel Inouye (D-HI), Tim Johnson (D-SD), Mary Landrieu (D-LA), Claire McCaskill (D-MO), Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), Bill Nelson (D-FL), Ben Nelson (D-NE), Mark Pryor (D-AR), Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), and Ken Salazar (D-CO).
How about Feinstein, Bill Nelson, and Ben Cardin whose goofy Bill was simply immunity disguised for the really lazy people who didn’t read it?
More action – a new amendment by Reid (#3918) accompanied by a cloture motion.
If cloture is not invoked on the substitute amendment (that is, if McConnell’s cloture motion is rejected), the Senate would proceed to vote on the cloture motion pertaining to Reid’s S.Amdt.3918. Man, I sure wonder what S.Amdt.3918 contains!
I suspect that S.Amdt.3918 will be attractive to Democrats, and will make it difficult for them to pass McConnell’s cloture motion. First thought is that S.Amdt.3918 amounts to a one month extension.
I don’t see where the votes are to block McConnell’s cloture motion.
C-Boldt where are you getting the number/info for Reid’s amendment–and are you sure the number is correct? It’s hard to find.
I don’t see where the votes are to block McConnell’s cloture motion.
I’m speculating that some of the AYE votes to table the SJC substitute were based on a belief that some additional amendments would come up for debate and vote. Out of a sense of fairness to their fellow Senators (not necessarily because they agree with the amendments) they would object to cloture. I think both Nelsons and Salazar are likely to turn, and wouldn’t be surprised if Specter did.
where are you getting the number/info for Reid’s amendment–and are you sure the number is correct? It’s hard to find.
I was listening to C-SPAN2, carefully. Even recorded it to disk. The Senate clerk read off the amendment number when the amendment was made pending. No amendment beyond #3906 (I think) is available online yet. #3906 is the last amendment from yesterday’s Congressional Record.
Thanks. I was away all day, and haven’t replayed my DVR yet. The Rethugs are getting ready to go at each other–so I was hoping for some entertainment. At least they can have a sidebar where Chuck Norris gets in the ring with Sly Stalone for 3 minutes.
I was trying to find a website that will update you of all the amendments in real time after the Senate’s or House’s day is done. What I’m finding (unless I’m misusing them or not drilling them well) is that when you use the
Daily Digest or GovTrack.us S. 2248
I suspect if there is one, you’ll know. I know there was talk a while back about a project to stream all the open committee meetings. There should be one on the web that would also give you the content of each amendment. Please let me know if you run into any.