!

Two zeds: Bodes well for the day! Key issue Christy, thanks for pressing on this.

Talking about neocon-enabling DLC types, I just passed Bob Kerrey on my way to the office. Crummy way to start the morning.

I’m getting pretty sick of DiFi…

If the accountants at the telecoms can shut down a wiretap because of the absence of a signed check, surely the lawyers at the telecoms could have shut them down because of the absense of a signed warrant.

I’m watching the Cheney Heritage Foundation speech on FISA from yesterday. The man lies more easily than he breathes — I have lost count of the legal misrepresentations and half-truths that have dripped out of his mouth in front of this crowd…

Good morning, Christy. Thanx for the reprint of all the fax #s. I’ll be busy on that for a while :o)

We few many, we happy few tenacious & determined, we band of brothers…

says a lot about priorities doesn’t it.

Must. Protect. Poor. Helpless. Telecoms.

AT&T Inc. fourth-quarter net income rose 62% amid increased profit at its wireless business, but subscriber-growth slowed markedly in its broadband and video segments.

Related to this too is the new push by the Bush administration to allow complete government oversight of our emails and blogging. I can’t even begin to imagine the long term impact.

I called my PA senators again this morning — had no trouble getting through…

Thanks so much everyone for all the calls and FAXes. Really appreciate everyone making these contacts and letting members of Congress know that this is important to us. You guys rock…

Morning folks. Thanks for this Christy. Calling Sanders, Leahy and Welch to start.

Not able to be on top of the news yesterday but I caught some buzz that Leahy is not on the right side of this bill? I can hardly believe that as he’s made his feelings about FISA and protection of the Constitution clear. Don’t we want the Judiciary version of the bill to pass? Is it very unlikely that it will?

Crucially, the bill also would grant retroactive legal immunity to telecommunications companies that have been sued for their alleged role in the National Security Agency’s warrantless wiretapping program between the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and August 2007,

So no immunity for wiretapping *before* 9-11-2001?

Don’t suppose that there’s any chance that this bill, or at least that portion of it providing retroactive immunity, will ever be acknowledged as the “Bye-Bye Due Process Bill of 2008″?

The Fifth Amendment says to the federal government that no one shall be “deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.”

Well, that seems pretty straight forward, surely this bill will be found to be unconstitutional when it hits the U.S. Supreme Cou…. oh hell, never mind.

filibuster it till it expires!

C-Span2 has coverage of the Senate gavelling in right now. Just a heads up for everyone. No idea when they will get to the FISA portion of the day — there is other business as well today. Will let you all know as things move forward…

Called Harkin. Aide will pass my encouragement along. I cannot believe this administration is so incompetent that they have to trash the constitution in order to “protect” us from terrorists.

In the one hundred odd years since the telephone was invented, we as a nation were able to help defeat the Germans in WW1, the Nazi’s and Japanese in WWII, the Soviets in the Cold war, all without sacrificing the 4th amendment of the Constitution. But Georgie boy and Dark Dick cannot defeat some primitive terrorists with cell phones in caves without undermining our consitiution? Their inadequecy is astonishing.

Damn, seems like the Dems can hardly wait to yet again “Go Goatse”…

Go Chris Dodd! I’m off to phone *and* email Boxer and DieFi.

We can win *again*. Believe!

Starting right off with S.2248 — FISA. No time agreement on amendments as yet…Reid speaking now.

Take it, brave Dodd!

Harry sounds like he needs a cup of coffee…

oh wait.

The SJC bill has been slightly modified, Reid is indicating that he supports it, and it has been sent to the desk as a substitute amendment for the Intel bill.

I just called Reid’s office and after angrily delivering my message (why do democrats have to fight their own leadership? Why won’t Reid stand up for the rule of law? Why is Reid refusing to honor Dodd’s hold and force him to filibuster when he gives the repugs a pass and caves every time etc…) I asked phone guy if he had been getting alot of calls like mine and he said “yes” and I asked if the calls made any difference, and he said, yes and to keep calling. So keep calling.

Talking now about the Dodd/Feingold amendment to strike retroactive immunity provision of the Intel bill, if it survives as the base bill. Reid indicating that he supports this amendment as well.

Reid talking about having to filibuster — that the “gentleman’s agreement” 60 vote silent filibuster isn’t going to be agreed to — so this hits the GOP as well. Good, if McConnell wants to cover Cheney’s ass, he should have to do so in the full light of day.

Reid saying he hopes the Senate will accept Leahy’s “slightly amended” Judiciary Committee bill.

Also says that he (Reid) opposes retroactive immunity… and then says that he’s gonna force full filibusters.

Mitch McConnell: The reason the mute button was invented

McConnell talking about how grossly irresponsible it would be for this to expire — never mind that the underlying FISA law is still fully in effect. And gosh, the Intel bill is great because Bush will sign it. (Um…yeah, that’s a great reason to pass an unconstitutional bill, isn’t it?)

McConnell offers a threat: Wah wah preznit won’t sign it if we don’t give him the Intell bill.

McConnell now talking about a priniting house for the blind in Louisville (APH).

lol. You missed Miss McConnell saying the Intelligence Bill is “best” because it is the “only one the president will sign”.

Now he’s pushing his own pork. Uh, Mitch, the FISA bill is gonna expire…

why is McConnell talking about math games?

McConnell is stalling so they can finish negotiating the amendment procedures, I’d bet.

I wish I were at home rather than at work right now. At home, I could use my fax/printer to send hundreds of pages of fax message/per rep and senator demanding that they obey their oath and protect the 4th (and 5th) Amendments or resign.

Seriously, the fax machines MUST be run out of paper again and again and again. The email system must be crushed with the influx of messages. The switchboard MUST be overloaded with calls.

I may setup an automailer to spew emails to a bunch of the criminal Dems (Reid, Rockefeller, Feinstein, Schumer, LEAHY, Pelosi, Hoyer, etc) on their duty to uphold their oath of office. The oath is NOT to protect the USA as a country or economy. It is NOT to protect corporations. It is NOT to serve the whims and desires of the White House. It is an oath to and about one thing and one thing only: the Constitution. If the Constitution is upheld as intended and as they are duty-bound to do, then the rest takes care of itself the way it was supposed to: within the bounds and limits imposed by the Constitution.

I do hope that Chuck Schumer and company will back outta Kentucky (they’re pushing neo-Dem Bruce Lunsford to run for the Senate against McConnell) and let Andrew Horne, Irak Veteran, retired Marine Lt Col, take him on and quite likely beat him.

Per Glenn Greenwald on 9/22/07:

It is hard to overstate how much of a priority FISA immunity is for the Bush White House, and for obvious reasons. Ironically, they were actually proposing the same sweeping retroactive immunity language back in September of 2006 when the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress, but they could not get the Congress to pass FISA legislation. With the Democrats in control of Congress, and Democratic Beltway influence-peddlers like [Jamie] Gorelick working with them, their chances of obtaining such legislation are now plainly enhanced, and according to both Risen and Isikoff/Hosenball, they are likely to obtain some form of retroactive immunity now that Democrats control Congress. There are reasons — good reasons — why the current Congress is more popular among Republicans than Democrats.

Also

Gorelick, needless to say, is an enthusiastic contributor to the Hillary Clinton campaign (as well as to Joe Lieberman’s). She’ll undoubtedly be a leading candidate for Attorney General in the next Clinton administration (perhaps serving along with Clinton supporter and “foreign policy expert” Michael O’Hanlon). Telecom lobbyist Donilon is also a maxed-out Clinton contributor.

Emphasis mine.

RRRAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!11111

i just called Sen Reid’s office urging the Judic Committtee version – and that i had a theory why the Intell version was put forward – the staffer said , well, i’ll just note your message, ’because I have heard the theories before.” so i told her of the threat/blackmail theory, and she said that was a new one.

imho, glenn’s theory looks better.

Where’s the debate? CSPAN isn’t advertising it and I don’t want to fish through CSPAN-1, -2, -3 until I find it.

Here we go. S 2248

Jello-Jay up…

Sen. Rockefeller up now. Discussing S.2248.

Who did Jay’s hair?

Links to the text of the pending amendments, and my predictions regarding the procedural flow and outcome: Senate by Cboldt (contains other comments as well)

cspan2

The Feinstein “compromise” amendment? Nothing but fluff and capitulation, dressed up in a tidy little package

how very Mrs Goldman Berman Feinstein Blum Caryle-Group

Orin Hatch, “It’s the usual liberal stuff of protecting civil liberties”.

Wow. Jay just admitted FISA was necessary because of illegl gummint spying on citizens.

Jelly Jay is reading the same argument as before.

Here are some talking points for the FISA fight:
— Immunity for the telecos entails immunity for BushCo.
— It’s more honorable to fight and lose than capitulate to evil.
— The place to try federal crimes is in federal court, not in Congress where corporate fortunes can buy a verdict
— Per Benjamin Franklin: “Those who would trade essential liberties for a bit of safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
— Per William Pitt: “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

any bets on whether Jello even addresses retroactive immunity?

Meant to link this up in the post as well and forgot — ooops. Updated above, but wanted tobe sure everyone knew about the Credo tool for contacting members of Congress as well.

Gee Orin,

You make me proud to be a liberal! AT least one political party is talking about protecting civil liberties.

so, is clinton and oh bah ma going to stand with dodd or are they making excuses?

Oh, no doubt – i just want them to get alarmed about what ”they are saying.”

We live in hope. If Dodd and a handful of other brave souls (are reading this John Kerry?) can stave off the immunity for another few days, we may see the tide turn. Our Democratic representatives seem to fall into three classes: those who are bought and sold by big money and have clustered around the Clinton’s, those who are progressive (or should I more correctly say, conservative) on civil liberties, and who not afraid to say so, and the vast middle who simply don’t want to get caught on the wrong side of public opinion. As to the latter, if today’s piece in the NYT on the American mentality is any indication, public opinion may be swinging our way. What it takes is someone to articulate it. Dodd is helping, but we need a major candidate, or all three, to come out swinging.

Ah hell. I HATE the “Technology has changed! Technology has changed! We must ignore the 4th Amendment now! It’s the technology! Don’t you SEEE?!”

No. Technology changes are irrelevant in the bigger picture. All that is necessary is a minor updtate to FISA to allow tapping of 100% foreign calls that route through the US (as a result of “new technology”). That’s it. There is no valid reason whatsoever to render the 4th Amendment quaint and outdated. There is NO TECHNOLOGY WAIVER IN THE 4TH (or 5th) AMENDMENT!

Rockefeller essentially reading his same speech from last December on the bill…

Cheney, mentored by the Father of Lies. He learned his lessons well.

Live blog the hell out of this pups, I’m getting ready to head to work and want to catch up as much as I can when I get there.
GO FIREDOGS!

Thanks in advance.

Busted

Rockefeller says that he intends to support SJC amendments to the bill — because he feels that there is very good material there for a number of issues. (Hmmm…that’s new…)

Jay: It’s complicated.

Yeah, but he didn’t say he supported all of their changes.

OT

Remember a few weeks ago when I said that the mood on Wall Street was “We’ve eaten the seed corn?”

This from Michael Bloomberg:

“They spent most of this past decade when things were good running up bills with reckless abandon, and when the economy started heading for the ditch, the special interest giveaways got even bigger. I think they ate the seed corn without worrying about the next year’s crop. Here we are, the seed corn is gone, and all we’ve got is a barn full of IOU’s,” he said.

Looks like I nailed it.

Rockefeller says that this bill provides for court review for the so-called “minimization procedures” — that court review is essential to protections for Americans, and that this was left out of Protect America Act. Also says that Americans should not lose their privacy right because they live or work elsewhere in the world…says bill requires FISA certification, not just AG approval.

Morning, Christy.

Morning all.

Just reporting what he said — not editorializing on how far he’s going. I can only do so many things at once.

When using the Toll-Free numbers … It takes you to the Capital switchboard… you ask for the Senator you want to talk to and they will transfer the call.

THEN…. after the call….just hit redial and do it again…. again… and again…

jello is a complicated dessert?

Jello Jay still standing firm for immunity.

Dick. Wad.

mind if i quote you in the digg comments, i pasted the numbers there.

Jay got a Bush quality smirk when he said he knows retroactive immunity is controversial. First emotion I’ve seen on his face.

ok wheres my phone,let the dialing begin

Heard Orrin Hatch on Imus this morning spinnin’ like mad for the other guys, urging people to contact their Congresspeople, so we’ve got work to do guys. [sadlyyes, if you’re here, this is why I watch…so we know what the other side’s up to also]

Thanks for this post, Christy! Nobody else is going to do the heavy lifting for us. We need to back up our talk here with action out there…make those calls, send those faxes.

I’d add that calls or emails to your local talk radio shows are important, too. Cogent argument, unrelenting force…we must scrub away the spin.

~ Prairie
pondering Obstructed Views today

Rockafeller’s stance on this seems to be paraphrasing my Senator, Ted Stevens. Shorter Jay Rockafeller – “You and your 4th Amendment are a series of Rubes….”

FISA and EPA Waiver Request Denial good stuff

dropped on his haid ,when he was quite young,like chimpster

you did nail it indeed…allow me to re quote;

“They spent most of this past decade when things were good running up bills with reckless abandon, and when the economy started heading for the ditch, the special interest giveaways got even bigger. I think they ate the seed corn without worrying about the next year’s crop. Here we are, the seed corn is gone, and all we’ve got is a barn full of IOU’s,” he said.

no only the seed corn but the land where we grow that seed, the infrastructure has been neglected to the point our bridges are falling down, our water lines are bursting, our roads crumbling

the debt we’ve incurred is not even a fraction of the picture, how much this administration has stolen from our society

What about the Rule of Law?

Rockefeller making point that the telecoms relied on the legal oinions of the most senior legal officials of the US government. No reference to the fact that they have scads of independent legal minds working for them to ensure that CYA is done and that the law is followed.

Jay has gotten bad legal interpretation on this. Any guesses as to how much Addington has been working this issue?

Jello says he tried to get Hadley to provide every Senator with a copy of the letters sent to telecoms – sounds like Hadley didn’t do it….

Jello is complecated to make – start with knackered horses…

Have called Leahy Sanders Feingold Dodd Edwards and just now Reid. Had snotty staffer cut me short and hang up. “I get the gist of what you’re saying-” Click.

can anyone get Atrios and his minnions calling too?

Obama on the filibuster:

“I strongly oppose retroactive immunity in the FISA bill. No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people – not the president of the United States, and not the telecommunications companies that fell in line with his warrantless surveillance program [… T]hat is why I am proud to stand with Sen. Dodd and a grassroots movement of Americans who are standing up for our civil liberties and the rule of law.”

from Tim Tagaris at Open Left… I’m inclined to believe it when I see it… I’m guessing he doesn’t show up.

Fine with me…. actually have found those numbers all over the internet linked to my name…. even Thom Hartman has a whole webpage up with the numbers.

ARGHHHHHH!

Jello Jay, noting that FISA was a constitutional atrocity.

And then saying, well, but we can’t deal with it this way.

Jello Jay–what means do you intend to use to decide that constitutional atrocity???

Rockefeller making point that the telecoms relied on the legal oinions of the most senior legal officials of the US government.
—–
my tiny violin is in the repair shop

Capitulation never felt so good. From Politico:

“I think we will prevail,” [Jay] Rockefeller said on Wednesday, adding that he hoped the Senate will finish the bill by next week. The FISA legislation expires in February, and both President Bush and GOP congressional leaders have demanded new legislation be in place by that time.

“It’s a pretty bad idea to appear cocky,” Rockefeller noted. “I am not pessimistic.”

thx!

Does no one ever come right out and say that laws have admittedly been broken?
Sheees.

Yep. His argument is hard to justify when you factor in Qwest’s decision not to play along.

dont remind Christy he is from W. Viginia….gawwwwwwwwwww

Existing laws work.

This is yet another Bush-push to rush the Congress into making bad law. Didn’t we learn from the 935 lies that rushed us into Iraq?

Just in case anybody needs some talking points *g*.

The telcoms meant well as patriots

Jello says that suits against the government aren’t precluded – and that he agrees that the president acted illegally – nevertheless, we mustn’t blame *private companies* for breaking the law.

“Ignorance of the law is no excuse”, Dick. Wad.

AAACK!
Look at the time!
I gotta go, see ya in 25 minutes.

darn! I hate to go to work now! (not to mention it is pouring rain)… keep up the good fight, pups… catch you all later…

Thanks for your work.
Called Kennedy and Kerry. Staffers said that they would oppose
retro for telco…

Jay’s goals are right:
Tools to keep us safe.
Appropriate oversight.
He just pays lipservice to that, however, and wants to keep his buds out of jail.

I’m sure Obama was using the word “stand” in the loosest and most metaphorical sense possible, when he wrote:

[T]hat is why I am proud to stand with Sen. Dodd and a grassroots movement of Americans who are standing up for our civil liberties and the rule of law.

But, damn, I’d love to be proven wrong on that.

“It’s a pretty bad idea to appear cocky,” Rockefeller noted. “I am not pessimistic.”

-J. Cockafeller

Oh lordy, Kit Bond. Someone take me out of my C-Span-watching misery…

Gawd, I hate having to listen to Republics talking down to me…

…because he tells them what they want to hear.

And he knows they’re to going to question him with critical questions…

Senator Menedez,and Akakas offices were extremely cordial

Jeebus, watching Bond is painful…

I got through to Sen. Nelson’s office, and they sounded tired. Wouldn’t say to me one way or another, but seemed supportive.

Christy,

About a month ago I posted a question asking if the push for telecom immunity was tied to the destroyed video and missing email cases…

LHP and bmaz weighed in on my question. LHP made a point about telecom immunity could be used to hinder or deny discovery in other cases against Bush/Cheney besides the pending 4th Amend ones.

Could you weigh in on this? There is a tremendous amount of language regarding email, teleconferencing, surveillance etc in the language of FISA. It seems that “no telecom immunity” may be about protection of 4th Amend. rights AND the protection of the Balance of Powers for Congress to investigate high crimes and misdemeanors committed by the Executive Branch.

OMG — Kit Bond just bitched about the SJC as a “totally partisan subcommittee.” Because all the GOP folks on there don’t count? Helloooooooo…

i think it is about losing their….RECORD profits

bad acid trip

oh this makes a lot of sense!!!!!

I don’t know the answer to it, thus I haven’t weighed in. Sorry.

yeah I love how Rethughs keep harping on bipartisanship now that they”re in the minority.

Bond looks like he’s going to have a stroke over this. I would love to think that is because he thinks the Dems might actually stand up on this one. Dreams are fun while they last.

I am glad to be able to watch the Senate on C SPAN because they have it blocked out on the TV(Charter Cable). I checked the TV schedule to be sure I had the right time and station only to find Maury being shown instead. How really odd.
Thanks Christy for leading the charge. Leahy and Sanders are my Senators. Called.

Bond – “Intelligence Committee worked on this issue for months and months – judiciary Committee just submitted their amendment last night”.

IOW – ‘only *we* (the Intelligence Committee) actually worked hard on this- don’t trust those lazy louts over at the Judiciary Committee’.

I’ve gotten “maybes” from Harken, Cardin and Sanders and a “don’t know what you’re talking about” from Akaka’s office (??!!!).

Biden, Menendez and Brown are supporting, i.e., doing something besides saying “oh, that’s nice.”

Maybe some extra pressure on the 3 “maybes” is in order.

Lawsuits to protect our privacy are frivolous. –Bond

Bond: We can’t risk a discovery process in the civil suits. –That’s what this is all about, IMHO.

Bond, for one, welcomes our new corporate overlords!

Isn’t it against GOP dogma to cite Darwin?

they think all lawsuits are frivolous …unless its someone in their immediate family

Kit Bond is never going to shut up, is he? I’m gonna need to make more coffee…

Bond evokes Darwin! we are only catching the dumb ones allowing the smart clever ones to breed on until they take over the world. — and they’re brown, too

damn Constituion!!!!!

Bond just slipped – “We” would incur great expense in defending those lawsuits

Cue Tonto – “what do you mean ‘We’, white man?”

Comcast did the same……. Must now purchase more expensive package to get c-span 2 and 3. Only get the House now…….. Corporate rip off as usual. Cable industry does not want to much “knowledge” to get out there!

thanx,i cant watch,my brain might remember some of this tripe

Wonder how the judiciary feels about Bond’s comments? That we should not leave these important decisions to be decided by the judiciary, especially when we don’t know how they’ll rule. We don’t? Didn’t they get their payola?

OK …ill watch cause others cant …yuk

Comcast did the same……. Must now purchase more expensive package to get c-span 2 and 3. Only get the House now…….. Corporate rip off as usual. Cable industry does not want to much “knowledge” to get out there!

I never did have CSPAN 2, I watch it online

So, to paraphrase Rockefeller paraphrasing Stevens, “America – it’s a series of rubes.”

Just called Boxer, DieFi and Reid, all in DC. Boxer’s office was supportive, DieFi’s was also supportive (though the staffer did say when I asked he’d heard nothing from her about whether her amendment was a fallback to protect immunity, or a fallback to protect Dodd), and Reid’s office treated me as irrelevant.

On to the list of supporting Senators!

Bond reading from Cheney script

So question me this: is the amount that the telcos are being sued for greater than the amount they were paid for providing illegal access to our conversations and emails?

In fact, I suspect that the plight of the telcos is simply a ruse to get immunity for Bush, Cheney, and their henchmen.

Bond threatening NOW

James Joyce @129
Ah, didn’t know that. I will check and see if Charter did that to us. Thanks . :) Oh, and yeah, I agree it is a corporate rip off that is interestingly timed to hide this atttack on our 4th Amendment rights.

Anyone have any luck getting through to hillary? tried direct and switchboard. Got what I think (pretty sure) was some Mozart for piano. now it’s harpsicord. still holding. I appreciate the vote for high culture but would prefer a vote for dodd on Fisa. Any suggestions for a way around the wait?
Got through to Kennedy who is holding firm on previous position. Asked him to do it on the senate floor.

terror,terror,terror attakzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Bond throwing the kitchen sink at this – Article II powers, child pornography (?), gotta catch the “smart’ terrists, not just the “dumb” ones, etc.

Hasn’t mentioned “Due Process”, though. Color me un-surprised.

I’m only watching on a small screen, Is Bond peeing his pants as he speaks?

oh sit down old man!

Will someone please let Kit Bond know that AT&T just posted a 3.4 Billion dollar profit for the 4th quarter? Can’t afford it, huh? You mean your campaign coffers can’t afford to lose their lobbying dollars, Kit?

Depends.

reading….must have had the super duper eye lens operation 10,000 bucks for the old fukkerz

Bond — if we can’t get back to DC in time, terrists might getcha. Those horse and buggies take forever, you know. Can’t trust the phones.

he is shameless

oh sit down old man!

To the contrary – thanks you Senator Bond, for doing your part in furthering the filibuster!

Again with the courts – not competent! Only the preznit’s henchmen know who the terrists really are.

Christy,

Do you have an idea of who could possible answer my question at 109? It just seems like an important question to answer. I tried to post it to Glenn Greenwald but I am having problems with Salon today.

Never mind that 72-hour emergency wiretap window already written into the law.

Obama advertises himself as a ‘Constitutional Lawyer’. I think this gives him a particular responsibility to not only be there to vote but to articule for Democrats and the American People WHY this is so important. Obama has HUGE platform in which to actually ‘teach’ the public about the Constitution and how very important this issue is. If he doesn’t do it, then if some newsperson (that is a REAL newsperson) should ask him just exactly why he didn’t take the lead on something as vitally important as this and right up his advertised alley. And why doesn’t he, Hillary and Edwards show more outrage over this. This is NOT policy wonk stuff, this is the basis of our government.

A ruse. So much nicer for the history books if they don’t have to say that Bush pardoned all his crooked cronies on his way out of the WH.

You may be able to push them. Cspan is the cable industry’s public service payback to we taxpayers, the national equivalent of community TV from your local company. tell then that there are 3 branches of gov.and you want 3-cspans one for each. *g*

Bag of auto-replenishing hot air, that one.

I sent individualized faxes to all the #s in yr. post. Got to hightail it out to a meeting, but noted on CSPAN proper that EPA Admin. Stephen Johnson is appearing right now before Sen. Environment committee. As TPM notes, this could be the 1st testimonial trainwreck of ‘08…

Thanx so much for the FISA liveblogging. Read you all later.

Uhm, Senator Bond? Could you give us just one example of protection that all of this surveillance has provided for us to date?

that is true,save Dodds vocal cords….hope he paces himself

I am asking.

I am waiting.

For the Rule of Law. The Constitution. Bill of Rights. No immunity for lawbreakers.

While there are excellent ideas, etc found on this site and many other progressive sites, it seems like we are only preaching to the choir, as the Dem politicians sure don’t seem to be hearing us.

I suggest that we take some of our talent and develop precise, legaleese type letters
that could be sent to the politicians.

I think everyone here in comments would be willing to e-mail those letters and with 150 comments per FDL post, that is a lot of letters, maybe even enough to have an impact.

Put simply for me, either our Dem representatives stand up for us or I quit.

Legal counsel at the Intel committee could answer it, but they won’t do so publicly. If I had to guess — and it would be a gues because I don’t have any particular basis in fact for it — I’d say it’s a combination of new technology concerns for communication issues (e.g. Skype and other tech innovations for communications among targeted groups) as well as CYA issues for Cheney and others who have been pushing this in contravention of the FISA and other laws. But it would only be a guess because I am not privy to the intel arguments on this.

why yes…we HAVE convicted thousands of terrorists,right?

But , i love a good sunset…

Morning.

So are you volunteering to put together a draft that everyone can see? All it takes is one draft — although form letters tend to be a turn-off for staffers, so everyone customize with your own touches from there.

ok now he is just LYING his asss off

Clinton’s office finally answered. She’ll oppose the bill as long as it has immunity. Is she on the floor to do so. “I don’t have her schedule.” B*.s*.

Kit Bond pimping his son. Lovely

We are witnessing the attempt of a “corporate aristocracy” to, under the color of law usurp constitutional safegards designed to limit governmental power, for the benefit of corporate interests and a compromised adminstration under the facade of protection?

We’ve been protected well Mr. Bond……

I was just going to say that. Haven’ we always had the emergency provision where the warrant can be applied for up to 72 hours later?

man that old man has great eyes,no glasses and reading almost every word

Our troops need this legislation, our country needs this: translation the telecoms need this legislation.

Lying sack of shit Bond saying that military in Iraq couldn’t monitor communications in Iraq because of FISA. The one has nothing to do with the other.

Can’t do surveillance in foreign countries with foreign operators because of FISA? Lying his ass off, indeed.

Go Feingold!

yup

Feingold –woo hoo.

That’s my senator, at his finest.

Blergh.

Round two upstairs.

http://firedoglake.com/2008/01…..e/#respond

Thanks Christy.

Boy, if only there was a way to get an answer on this ASAP. Because if the answer is in fact what LHP suggested. It’s not just about 4th Amendment anymore…It’s everything…

irrational linkage and associations like witch hunts………

CHS:

“Crispin”, “Branagh”

Jay has gotten bad legal interpretation on this. Any guesses as to how much Addington has been working this issue?

My view of Rockefeller is that he is in a postion where he too has access to good legal advice. He certainly should know the issues since we are out here and have been talking about them for some time. My view is that he is not up to this job and should stand aside.

Help me out here, I try to stay in the background, you guys cover the bases and I follow the research. In this instance I can only come to one overriding conclusion and that is a vote to pass this bill with immunity and all the other ugliness intact is an act of treason and should be so stated to those we call. Please don’t flame me, if there is a better interpretation than that let me know, I frankly must be to stupid not to see it because throughout this eight years every time there is an important decision, one that directly effects our freedom, we have been defeated and those defeats have nothing to do with dem vs repug they have to do with the slow destruction of our democracy and those votes by dems that helped that process means they are all on the same page with no thought of freedom or democracy. The war on terror is not a war on terror from without, the terrorists are here and their terrorist acts are being committed against us.

That should be:

they’re NOT going to question him…geesh

Your call to action has this reasonable response – espec for those of us in upcoming primary states such as here in NJ to be heard by both Hilary and Obama:

1- craft a fact mentioning the Dem primary; state you are wavering between Hilary and Obama; that you will base support re: the one who rises to the occasion – or to support EDWARDS if neither Hilary nor Obama stand to be counted. Fax it to BOTH Hilary and Obama

2. craft a second fax tweaking the above re Dem primary to add your interest in seeing a Dem win in November and worry that voters need to see actual differences between Dems and Repugs such as on FISA.

3. Fax to BOTH your Senators AND your Repr to stand against the unitary executive by supporting the filibuster. Two bodies of letters good for up to five faxes. And give up on the phones.

I think Ted Kennedy/Rachel Maddow/Olberman’s words on presidential veto on FISA w/o retroactive immunity bears repeating. Again and again.

What is arlen talking about?!? If senate doesn’t adopt Arlen/WH ammendment, he will “with great reluctance” support retroactive immunity. Yeah sure great reluctance.

Dodd: Scrap intelligence version on (five specific counts). Adopt proposal of Leahy.
Sorry Arlen.

Got through to DiFi’s office on the fourth try- the guy was nice enough, but he tried to tell me about the amendment Senator Feinstein was sponsoring. I told him we all knew it wouldn’t pass and that I urged Feinstein to support Senator Dodd’s filibuster.

OT – listened to Whitehouse grill the EPA Administrator. I wish the rest of the members would yield all their time to him (except maybe Bernie Sanders).

This is all posturing as usually. The Democrats will pucker up and cave in like they always do. The Republicans and Bush get everything they want, because they TAKE IT! Law or no law..they make it up as they go. No one can stop them now.

The REAL ID ACT passed and is law too. We have lost all our freedoms and no one in Washington has the balls to stand up to these criminals and say NO!l.