Blue Texan!

Hi Biodun & Blue Texan

Oh goody, grilled rocky mountain oysters.

Hi, Blue Texan! Biodun, you dog! *g*

Could Sen. Clinton and Obama maybe take a time out from attacking each other and start focusing on the real war?

I hope the damage is not done already–for general, I mean. If Hillary gets the nomination, the African-American vote might not be a guarantee for the Dems…

Yep. We’re just getting started here. *g*

Hi Richmond.

But those dead and injured don’t matter in Bushworld, where up is down, black is white, and the truth is for those who can’t afford the best legal representation.

I can’t even imagine how I’d feel right now to be a family member or friend of one of those 4,000 (or one of the 20,000 injured whose life will NEVER be the same.)

Where do we go to get our country back?
-S

Someone’s on C-SPAN3 talking about this right now, LIVE.

It is a little hard for Hillary Clinton to talk about this since she participated in the deception.

there have been comments to that effect from members of the AA community who are in SC, on Dkos Kid Oakland diary to which I linked a few days ago. I share your concern on the evidence of those comments.Kid oakland has a new obama on the rec list you can probably find it through that if you are interested.
I am staying neutral for the sake of peace. what goes into the bluestate ballot box stays there.

And, the WSJ has this – troubling indeed
http://online.wsj.com/article/…..mmentaries

Ann in AZ:

My 6 was meant as a response to you. The java buttons on top of comment box ain’t working for me again today…

I find it somewhat ironic to see the most ardent of this Administration’s supporters carping on the subject of truthfulness…

This whole episode in our history has been, and still is, so horrendous to witness and contemplate, I simply cannot listen to boosh/chainee statements without feeling physically ill.

What they are doing is absolutely evil.

They MUST be impeached.

They should be in jail, not sullying the halls of our government.

This may all seem redundant, but we want it officially documented, to a fare-thee-well, just how much and how badly Bush lied, because his unindicted co-conspirators in the media will never willingly ‘fess up to their own role in promoting his bullshit as if it was caviar.

This is being done for history’s sake, as well as for our sakes. Things are blowing up all to hell on several fronts, and unless we have this information at our fingertips, the GOP/Media Complex will succeed in blaming it all not on Bush and the GOP, but on us.

I find it somewhat ironic to see the most ardent of this Administration’s supporters carping on the subject of truthfulness…

yes, somewhat.

.
Hi BT!

I’m not an Obama supporter, but I find ganging up on him, especially by Southerners, some troubling…

My 17: I meant …somewhat troubling…

Just left this on a previous thread, but seems more relevant here:

It was on my Yahoo frontpage (AP) this morning which seemed odd. These “non-profits” have been releasing all kinds of important things over the years. Why does the BigMedia all of a sudden care what they say?

I wonder if it has to do with what I was saying earlier about how the Repubes will be running against the “Bush Administration” this year. They’ll be saying that the Shrubinistas were a rogue cabal within the Repube Party, and how they’ll come riding in on their fiscally responsible horse to return to the Repube traditions, which are completely phony as we know here.

Again, the Repubes, the Dem enablers, and BigMedia will ignore their own significant role in all this madness, and try like hell to push all the old storylines of “tax-and-spend Liberals” and “responsible” convservatives. I hope I’m wrong.

From the NY Observer:

Battle is the byword these days among New York’s chattering Democrats. On one side, there’s the Hillary supporter who feels that she is the most pragmatic choice for the job; on the other, there’s an Obama believer whose misty-eyed faith in the senator is exceeded only by his (or her) penchant for criticizing Mrs. Clinton. “I have been involved in literally almost every presidential primary in New York State since 1968,” when Robert F. Kennedy faced off against Eugene McCarthy, said Ethan Geto, a veteran political operative and gay rights activist who ran Howard Dean’s New York campaign for president in 2004 and is currently supporting Mrs. Clinton. “And since 1968, I have not seen this kind of emotional intensity.”

After Bush, Colin Powell lied the most. He is the most reprehensible of all of these criminals. He promised that the military wouldn’t be
abused as they were in Vietnam. Bush is a psychopath, Powell isn’t. He deserves to be the first on trial for war crimes.

“In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003.”

I’m shocked! Shocked, I say, that a country could lie to its citizens to get them revved up for war! NOT! It’s what countries do. That’s why they call it propaganda. What makes this so appalling is that it happened in a democracy where the government derives its power from the informed consent of the governed. At least, that’s how I was taught it is supposed to work. The real appalling part is the apathetic attitude of the citizenry, as BT points out.

And as Biodun points out (#5):

I hope the damage is not done already–for general, I mean. If Hillary gets the nomination, the African-American vote might not be a guarantee for the Dems…

Hillary’s campaign tactics may be the death of her chances this fall. Most everyone knows that she is the one person that can unify the Rethugs, and it appears she and Bill are shooting themselves in the foot by alienating the Black vote. If I were a black voter, I would probably feel like the Clintons were traitors to our cause. This fall, a Democratic victory is hardly a cinch. We have the wind at our backs, so to speak, by you can’t say we haven’t done everything in our power to lose the WH so far.

It’s all kabuki out there. Layers and layers and layers of lies and spins and myths.

People don’t understand what is going down. They live in their own pleasure doms or survival hells.

something I posted downstairs is on point here and I want to restate;

there are a few things missing from this report

I think it’s language is not quite strong enough

I think it NEEDS to say “deliberately lied for the purpose of lead us to war and undermined our efforts against terrorism”

I would also like it to add but understand why this is not in there too

“by proceeding with their predetermined agenda to bring war regardless of the facts, they facilitated, strengthened and gave comfort to the enemy”

the only purpose of this war was to redistribute middle class wealth to the pockets of the depraved maniacs who bank on death

the premium is astounding in it’s inefficiency, they didn’t care that the rate of return is exponetially negative

to launder middle class assets and put them in their pockets they turned trillions of dollars in assets to billions of dollars in personal profit

at the cost of our national security, our infrastructure, the worlds economic security, the worlds military security, the integrity of the united states

and with the cost of our children’s lives, the family they leave behind, the family they will never have

NANCY PELOSI, YOU HAVE AN OATH TO HONOR AND A DUTY TO FULFILL

YOUR COUNTRY IS IN NEED OF YOUR SERVICE, A SERVICE YOU HAVE PROMISED TO PROVIDE

taken from downstairs;

the surge achieved undeniable success: It has ensured that U.S. troops won’t be coming home anytime soon

OK, pelosi is TRYING to claim that if there were evidence of impeachable offenses she WOULD impeach

WE MUST CALL HER OUT

we must begin calling her “Nancy bush”, “the bush enabler”

“partner in high crimes to the bush administration”

WE MUST FORCE HER HAND

because she has reneged her oath of office, she is an enabler to high crimes, she is in therefore a party and in league with these crimes and she too must be brought and stand before the bar of justice

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

So what? The man could eat live babies on TeeVee and no one would even bat an eye. As much as Republicans disgust me, the postponement of the contempt vote in the House today has switched me from Democrat to Republican. I figure if you’re going to back a criminal enterprise, it may as well be the one that is stealing the most. GODDAMN DEMOCRATS.

Thanks, Biodun, but I already assumed as much. Congrats, by the way. When I got here there was only one comment. I immediately started laughing and said to myself, “Gee, I wonder who that could be?!!” When I got to “below the fold” area, I saw I was right. No doubt you’re good!

I’m not an Obama supporter, but I find ganging up on him, especially by Southerners, some troubling…

No surprise but in the South there will be less of the Bradley effect; they are proud of their racism. The good news is that these people are, for the most part, in the Thug party and wouldn’t vote for a Dem of any color. Best thing that LBJ did was run this scum out of the Dem party.

And the feud gets domestic, into marriages and bedrooms:

It’s when Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama clamber into bed between couples that things get really ugly. One minute you’ll be lying next to each other, innocently discussing preschools or gym memberships and the next—stony silence! The disagreements might be substantive, delving into the minutia of Mr. Obama’s Social Security rhetoric, or the implications of Mrs. Clinton’s vote to label Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps a “terrorist organization.” But then there are the endless rounds regarding “experience” and “charisma” and “tears” that make couples who only months earlier vowed to love each other “for better or worse, richer or poorer” suddenly start to wonder whether they shouldn’t have added a clause about “for Hillary or Obama, New Hampshire or Iowa.”

“Watching the results come in of the New Hampshire primary, I was despondent, and my wife was overjoyed,” recalled a 30-something, pro-Obama journalist named Andrew, who lives near Gramercy Park with his Hillary-lovin’ bride, and asked that his full name not be used because he sometimes covers politics. “It was one of those moments where we looked at each other, and it felt as though maybe we didn’t know each other quite as well as we thought.”

(Same link as my 20.)

Thank you eCAHN’

Chuck Lewis, Founder of Center for Public Integrity

Report on Bush Administration Pre-Iraq War Statements

It’s a presser, I guess. A must-hear/see.

Very interesting. I assume it can be viewed later also, & will be in their list of recent programs. Powerful stuff. Also swatting media for lack of info. to public.

Update: VPCheney at 11:+ on surveillance, on C-3.

I’m not an Obama supporter, but I find ganging up on him, especially by Southerners, some troubling…

I think he might become “O’boma” for st patty’s day

poll;

does he become;

McBama

or

O’boma

tee hee, I heard that on the radio today, made me laugh

This study establishes that the statements were false. Has anyone compiled the case that those who delivered these false statements did so knowing that they were false? It’s not that I have any doubt, but the Republicans will inevitably dismiss this report by blaming everthing on “bad intelligence,” and I’d like to have a document to point to that refutes that excuse.

Listen to the presser on C-SPAN3. They’ve verified that those issuing atatements knew differently from other internal documents that were available at the time.

Lewis, on CSpan3 NOW: says McClellan has book coming out in March, wherein (according to publisher’s release), he charges lying by the administration on the runup to & conduct of the war.

Finally from the NY Observer, this:

For Andrew and his wife, who have been married roughly a year, the essence of this conflict boils down to the fact that “she really thinks he’s a cheap huckster, and I think that Clinton is a cold-fish manipulator,” he said. Sometimes, he confessed, this has made him wonder whether he harbors a latent “discomfort about the idea of a woman president,” which, in turn, makes him “really uncomfortable.” On one occasion, all this agita spilled over into a drunken yelling match. But mostly, he said, it just hangs out on their couch with them, “a generalized kind of tension every time the TV’s turned to MSNBC.”

It was MSNBC that pitted renowned race scholar Michael Eric Dyson against his wife, the preacher and political commentator Marcia Dyson, on Hardball With Chris Matthews late last August.

Professor Dyson is an impassioned Barack booster who has spent the past few months penning odes and essays to the man he hopes to call president. Ms. Dyson is a Clinton backer of such ardor that she preached her way through the country last fall as part of a pro-Hillary “faith tour.” They began their confrontation civilly enough, but within minutes, he was talking over her, punctuating his points about Mr. Obama’s prescience about the Iraq invasion with a sharp up-down gesture. Meanwhile, she was calling him “Michael” with the unmistakable tone of annoyance particular to wives asking their husbands to do the dishes for the 1,000th time.

“I don’t want you two crazy kids coming back here and getting into divorce court next week,” said Mr. Matthews, whose more recent comments about the role Bill Clinton’s philandering played in catapulting Hillary to where she is today spurred such outrage from feminists that he was all but forced to offer a public apology. “Are the two of you going home together?”

(Same link as the others.)

10:30 EST: presser just ended.

I was a senior in high school in 1968, and I supported Eugene McCarthy — in hindsight, Bobby Kennedy was the better choice. The differences this time are less dramatic, but the polarization is very similar.

I’ll go into the Feb 5 caucuses supporting John Edwards, but may end up voting for Obama. I like Hillary, but I can’t stand her husband — and like he said in 1992, they are a two for one package deal.

I agree, wigwam.

Proving that someone lied is actually very difficult, because you have to know what they knew, when they knew it.

When Cheney said, “There is no doubt that Saddam has WMD” that to me is beyond question a lie, since he knew damn well that the intel on Saddam’s WMD was riddled with doubts.

But I, too, would like to see a specific study of this/timeline, to establish what exactly was a “lie”, which means the speaker knows what he’s saying is actually untrue, and what is actually misleading and/or willful misrepresentation, in which the speaker does something else.

Kabuki is right.
85-90% of Americans really are not cognizant of what is happening. There is a purposeful dumbing down of the populace by the corporate media.
They want docile consumers, not informed citizens. I am not optimistic.

the Republicans will inevitably dismiss this report by blaming everthing on “bad intelligence,” and I’d like to have a document to point to that refutes that excuse.

good, let them say it was “bad inteligence” becuase we will inundate them with officials on their own staff that told them there were no weapons

we will point out that it wasn’t “bad intelifence” it was manufactured inteligence

it was “team b” not the cia, it was the fake inteligence team cheney put together so he can have war, just as he put that team together under nixon;

“Last Friday, in Moscow, we witnessed the beginning of the end of that era which began in 1945. With this step, we have enhanced the security of both nations. We have begun to reduce the level of fear, by reducing the causes of fear—for our two peoples, and for all peoples in the world.”
But Nixon left amid scandal and Ford came in, and Ford’s Secretary of Defense (Donald Rumsfeld) and Chief of Staff (Dick Cheney) believed it was intolerable that Americans might no longer be bound by fear. Without fear, how could Americans be manipulated? And how could billions of dollars taken as taxes from average working people be transferred to the companies that Rumsfeld and Cheney – and their cronies – would soon work for and/or run?

Rumsfeld and Cheney began a concerted effort – first secretly and then openly – to undermine Nixon’s treaty for peace and to rebuild the state of fear.

They did it by claiming that the Soviets had a new secret weapon of mass destruction that the president didn’t know about, that the CIA didn’t know about, that nobody knew about but them. It was a nuclear submarine technology that was undetectable by current American technology. And, they said, because of this and related-undetectable-technology weapons, the US must redirect billions of dollars away from domestic programs and instead give the money to defense contractors for whom these two men would one day work or have businesses relationships with.

The CIA strongly disagreed, calling Rumsfeld’s position a “complete fiction” and pointing out that the Soviet Union was disintegrating from within, could barely afford to feed their own people, and would collapse within a decade or two if simply left alone.

look familiar?

he did it again with Iraq and he TRIED to do it again with Iran

believe me, the proof abounds that this was NOT “bad intelifence”

1,734 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Blue Texan and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

“Could Sen. Clinton and Obama take time out from attacking each other and start focusing on the real war?”

You don’t really think that either of those corporate shills are gunna stop the food fight and shine a light on their empty suits ,do ya Brother Texan? Our only hope is that maybe Edwards gets enough traction in South Carolina to push Mrs. Clinton to third and then force Barak O’Lieberman ta go on record on specific issues includin’ the war, Social Security, healthcare and rescindin’ the tax cuts. If that doesn’t happen then we gotta turn Denver into a replay of the 1968 convention and force the nominee ta understand that she/he can’t win without the progressive base of the party.

By the way…how are things shakin’ out in the Texas senate race…are the Dems gunna put up a Ralph Yarborough or another corporate shill?

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…THEY GOT OUR MONEY NOW THEY WANT OUR CHILDREN!!

ckls @ 36:

I’ll go into the Feb 5 caucuses supporting John Edwards, but may end up voting for Obama. I like Hillary, but I can’t stand her husband — and like he said in 1992, they are a two for one package deal.

This is exactly what I’ll end up doing as well. MN caucus is on so-called tsumani Tuesday–Feb. 5.

I am still undecided, believe it or not.

Again, for those with a strong stomach:

Veep to be on CSpan 3 talking “foreign intelligence” to the Heritage Foundation. Due: 11:05a.m. EST

They will also blame the Democrats. Given the current leadership of that party, the Republics will be successful.

If anyone has or could develop such a time line, it would surely be Marcy. ;-)

The whole world is watching.

I think John Dean put something together like this in “Worse than Watergate.” But I’m not sure he effectively distinguished between what Bush knew and what Bush said.

If Bush convinced himself Saddam was developing nukular weapons, as stupid and delusional as that is, then saying so isn’t technically a “lie.”

It’s misleading, it’s inaccurate, it’s wrong, it’s impeachable. It’s unforgivable. But it’s not a “lie” in the strictest sense of the word.

There is a purposeful dumbing down of the populace by the corporate media.

And by agribusiness. They chemicals they put in food these days makes for some seriously dumbed down and drugged out folks.

I’m waiting to see how the candidate reply to Jane’s and Glenn’s invitation to show some real leadership in the FISA fight.

The NY Observer endorses Obama. No surprise there if you know the demographics of Observer readership.

The New York Observer urges New York Democrats to support Mr. Obama in the state’s presidential primary on Feb. 5.

New Yorkers might ask why they should not pull a lever for our junior senator, Hillary Rodham Clinton. While Mrs. Clinton is an extraordinary United States senator for New York, we believe that Mr. Obama can be a great president for the United States of America.

Most of the other candidates have absorbed, assimilated or appropriated Mr. Obama’s issue of change. It is a powerful concept. But a great deal of the argument for Mr. Obama’s candidacy is about one great issue in American life: restoring and reinvigorating American democracy.

Democracy is the greatest strength of this still-young nation. Its living enactment is our gift to the world. It is the product of our best instincts and most powerful ideals. But it has been polluted, sullied and compromised by an obstructive administration that seems to have to have no particular regard for its attributes.

It is difficult to remember the last national candidate who has charged and jazzed the democratic system as Mr. Obama has. Partly as a result of his candidacy, college campuses have remembered why they are proud of the United States, kids are going door to door, runners are handing out leaflets on weekends, racial lines have been culturally melted and the electoral approach to presidential campaigning has been reborn.

And, as more than one commentator has said, America is being reintroduced to the world.

Link: http://www.observer.com/2008/february-5-obama

I’m more and more convinced to stand for Edwards.

Environmental policy should be cleaned up mightily under him, and I doubt it will be unless he’s in there and deeply involved in policy-making.

I still could vote for any of the 3 in the general election.

BTW: Blue Tex, I really appreciate your wonderful posts. Read every one. Thanks for not pulling punches.

That’s a Clintonesque distinction.

Go directly to Nancy. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200

And also this:

Just as in New York, John McCain is giving Rudy Giuliani hearty competition for support in New Jersey, with 29 percent of Republican voters now favoring McCain and 26 percent favoring Giuliani, according to a new Quinnipiac poll.

Hillary Clinton maintains a commanding lead over Barack Obama, 49-32, while John Edwards has 10 percent of the vote among Democrats.

Obama, however, leads Clinton overwhelmingly among black Democrats, 64-27. Clinton leads among women voters.

Link: http://www.observer.com/

“Last Friday, in Moscow, we witnessed the beginning of the end of that era which began in 1945. With this step, we have enhanced the security of both nations. We have begun to reduce the level of fear, by reducing the causes of fear—for our two peoples, and for all peoples in the world.”
But Nixon left amid scandal and Ford came in, and Ford’s Secretary of Defense (Donald Rumsfeld) and Chief of Staff (Dick Cheney) believed it was intolerable that Americans might no longer be bound by fear. Without fear, how could Americans be manipulated? And how could billions of dollars taken as taxes from average working people be transferred to the companies that Rumsfeld and Cheney – and their cronies – would soon work for and/or run?

Rumsfeld and Cheney began a concerted effort – first secretly and then openly – to undermine Nixon’s treaty for peace and to rebuild the state of fear.

They did it by claiming that the Soviets had a new secret weapon of mass destruction that the president didn’t know about, that the CIA didn’t know about, that nobody knew about but them. It was a nuclear submarine technology that was undetectable by current American technology. And, they said, because of this and related-undetectable-technology weapons, the US must redirect billions of dollars away from domestic programs and instead give the money to defense contractors for whom these two men would one day work or have businesses relationships with.

The CIA strongly disagreed, calling Rumsfeld’s position a “complete fiction” and pointing out that the Soviet Union was disintegrating from within, could barely afford to feed their own people, and would collapse within a decade or two if simply left alone.

we cannot deminish these crimes by comparing them to watergate, watergate was a friggin birthday party compared to what this administration has done

I don’t want to see no “GATE” attached to this fiasco, this fiasco needs it’s own name and future fiascos need to be associated with this one, not this one associated with watergate

WADR, Badwater, I think precision in language is really important, and when you accuse someone of lying, it helps your case if it’s true.

Surely Scott McClellan’s upcoming book (due out March 08) will make it very much more difficult for repubbles to blame others.

Publisher’s pre-release statement claims he charges administration with flat-out LYING to get us into the Iraq war.

Blue Texan @ 42:

I believe it. I was undecided too. I was going to flip a coin between Hillary and Obama. But that debate in Myrtle Beach did it for me. Hillary was mean…IMHO.

I thought he pulled back from that after the initial reports.

Is this the “Lie by Lie” Timeline you had in mind?

Curious Biodun (not now, but some time), I am curious about why you favor Hillary in this race.

President George W. Bush and seven of his administration’s top officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, made at least 935 false statements in the two years following September 11, 2001, about the national security threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.

Now do teh Math…. 935 x media person x 1000 times replayed every hour and running on the screen crawl, pretty much equal to the current national debt… oh say $350 billion?

At least come Feb. 5 I get to caucus for Edwards.

Hillary was mean…IMHO.

Yeah, but you have to be mean. That’s the thing. Bubba’s right about it being a “contact sport.” The Clintons are ruthless, and a certain part of me admires that. I just wish they’d kept their powder dry for the other side.

I don’t recall the ‘04 primaries being this ugly.

Go directly to Nancy. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200

I believe the nsa has something on nancy that she cannot afford to go public, there is nothing else that makes sense, she MUST bring hearings of impeachment

how bad could that information be?

what could be SO bad she would allow this man to continue to destroy our country and her constitution?

what could POSSIBLY be so bad?

I’ll vote for Edwards in May and November. No matter what. Osama has too much Blue Dog support. Clinton is also too pro-corporate DLC. Just as 54% of all voting age adults chose not to vote for the two major party candidates in 2004, I’ll likely join that majority.

I’ve spent my life voting for guys representing 2% of my interests. Without better representation, none of the sloganeering about voting means squat.

And enough Dems won’t fight the FISA till it dawns on them that their campaign planning has been listened in on.

Could Sen. Clinton and Obama maybe take a time out from attacking each other and start focusing on the real war?

I wish they would, I’m guessing they won’t.

Impeach.

Remove.

Indict.

Imprison.

The only way to start fixing our country.

Er, Obama?

Another factor in the election is Zogby (generally right wing pollster). The NH polls that suggested a run away for Obama may have encouraged some to switch votes for Hillary after the smears. Now he has Obama way up in SC, and I wonder if this is a set up so that when she comes in as expected maybe 5-8 points lover, she can claim to have narrowed the lead. (Note that Zogby’s polls often change closer to what the outcome is just prior to the vote itself.

that’s a GREAT timeline, the information the president had vs the lie he told inspite of that information

these are lies, they wanted war, they’ve been itching for war ever since the maniac in the sick fraternity that calls themselves the PNAC was founded

Actually, I think that Bush can’t be accused of lying. He has always been just a puppet mouthing someone else’s words.

Impeach.

Remove.

Indict.

Imprison.

The only way to start fixing our country.

it is the only way we can begin to regain the integrity we once enjoyed

it is the only way forward, the only way we can move toward peace

Perhaps. I don’t know for certain.

I’m going by what the Founder of Center for Integrity, Chuck Lewis just said LIVE on CSpan 3. He said it, and then he backed up and reiterated they use the actual word “lied”.

If it’s not true, maybe it was the publishers who backed off of that. I’m only reporting what I just watched & heard from Lewis. He didn’t act as if he’s seen the book, just the publishers’ release.

Stay tuned.

Meanwhile, shooter’s up, live – sorta, omg, laughing. I can’t stand to turn the sound up. *click*

Speaking of lying sacks of shit, a spokesman for Harry Reid claimed this week that “Senator Reid intends to do everything he can to strip immunity from the bill.” Mind you, the only reason we have this problem is that Reid:
o refused to honor Chris Dodd’s hold on the bill, thus violating long-standing senate protocols that he honors every time the Republicans invoke them.
o put forward the Intelligence Committee version of the bill, which contains immunity, rather than the Judiciary Committee’s version, which does not.

Glenzilla has the details in this update to his post of yesterday:

Anonymous Senate Democrats announce today in The New York Times that they are prepared to lose yet again to the omnipotent President — “Senate Democrats concede that they probably lack the votes needed to stop a White House-backed plan to give immunity to phone utilities that helped the National Security Agency’s eavesdropping” — while the ACLU commendably puts the blame exactly where it belongs:

Advocates for civil liberties fault the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, for what they see as a weak effort to block the White House immunity plan. Mr. Reid opposes immunity, but his decision to allow an initial vote on the Intelligence Committee plan, with immunity, has angered opponents.

“If Senator Reid wanted to win, he would have put the judiciary vote on the floor first,” Caroline Frederickson, director of the Washington legislative office of the American Civil Liberties Union, said. “It seems as if he wants to lose.”

Sen. Reid’s spokesman had the audacity to say this in response: “Senator Reid intends to do everything he can to strip immunity from the bill.” The primary reason White House Victory on telecom immunity is so likely is because Reid exercised his power as Majority Leader to bring the bill to the floor in such a way as to maximize the White House’s prospects. That’s bad enough.

But to then send his spokesman out to claim that he’s going “to do everything he can to strip immunity from the bill” makes it much worse, since that’s the opposite of the truth. He’s doing everything he can to ensure that immunity remains in the bill. If the Senate passes telecom immunity and vastly expanded warrantless eavesdropping powers, Bush, Cheney, ATT & and Verizon should (and, in various forms, likely will) send a hearty expression of thanks to two people: Harry Reid and Jay Rockefeller.

I think a sizable chunk of the avid Hillary fans are there because they are convinced Hillary will be most supportive of the Irag (and now Iran?) war, as in the Haaratz listing.

Dude, Osama?

You graduate top in yer class of GOP Talking Points 101?

I have written at least a dozen emails to Nancy in the past few months. I don’t even get a “Hey, thanks for writing” form letter back. I have now resorted to sending form emails to all of my friends in her district asking them to write to her. Hopefully she will listen more closely to her constituents. Prolly not, but it’s worth a try.

Good morning pups!

Not impeaching Bush and Cheney effectively removes impeachment from the Constitution, thus destroying part of it. Future Administrations will be viewed by comparison to this one. It’s hard to imagine one being more impeachable. Since this one wasn’t, they won’t be either.

Richmond @ 61:

I don’t favor Hillary. See my 58 and 63…

Whatever it is doesn’t have to be true.

the Clintons plan to win at any cost. We will get both of them. I dont think it is good for this country,

If Bush convinced himself Saddam was developing nukular weapons, as stupid and delusional as that is, then saying so isn’t technically a “lie.”

It’s misleading, it’s inaccurate, it’s wrong, it’s impeachable. It’s unforgivable. But it’s not a “lie” in the strictest sense of the word.

The problem is that Bush seems quite capable of convincing himself of any number of things. The amount of disinformation and misinformation that his little brain is able to rationalize is phenomenal. Look how he has already rationalized the NIE. It doesn’t agree with his paradigm, it doesn’t jibe with his gut feelings, so it must be wrong, wrong, wrong regardless of what the hard evidence says. After all, the intelligence community is supposed to read tea leaves, not just sort thru legal evidence, right? So would you call his determination that the NIE was wrong a lie? A misrepresentation? A speculation? A fantasy?

Wow. Perfect. Thank you very much!

‘morning, eg…

how goes your world?

It is a problem that Bush is convinced of a lot of stuff that’s not true, and it’s a problem that he’s a lightweight who doesn’t read much and has been out to lunch for 8 years on just about everything.

“We can’t trust Bush because he’s always wrong” is a stronger meme than “We can’t trust Bush because he lied” — because it’s more accurate.

This point was made effectively in “Don’t Think of an Elephant” and I think it’s true.

I know you are an Edwards person , but I was thinking of the kingmaker role.

not so

the republicans will have no compunctions, they will impeach if Hillary is elected for showing her cleavage, they will impeach if oboma is elected for being attractive to white women, they will impeach if Edwards is elected for re instituting the new deal

this does NOT inoculate democrats against impeachment…mark those words

Morning egregious. Did you just wake up? *g*

Whatever it is doesn’t have to be true.

it has to be true for her to stand down

or it can be a threat?

for instance;

“you impeach me and there will be a crisis that makes 9/11 look like a sweet 16″

could it be a threat?

I wonder if at some point Dems will want to win and realize neither Hill or Obama czn?

shooter up sortalive on CSpan3, but ya can’t tell, ’cause it sounds as if he dragged out one of his old lyin’ speeches on terruh, seein’ as how it’s for the Foundered Hairyaged, who’re undoubtedly savouring every woid.
*reaches for garlic necklace*

could it be a threat?

I shudder at the thought of that but I do not believe this administration is above it

does anyone think this administration is above a threat?

perris I think you are right. Somebody (not necessarily Cheney/bush) has something on Nancy.

Hey OC, biodun,

Reporting to you from ?sunny Menlo Park California, where it has rained for the entire 4 days I’ve been here. Good Scottish weather. This is the final visit before the move which is in about 10 days. It’s all very weird but I’ve done difficult things before, and so can do one more. Support from family and friends including you pups has been just great, thanks to all.

Then again now that Murdoch is doing a fund raiser for Hillary and Fox is coming out in support of her, against Obama’s truth speak, I think it is time to throw in the towel
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._0123.html

surely not an eyebrowlift.

Let’s go after these idiots next because you know, we need “change”.

Why can’t we spend the money on this tripe on something that actually benefits the poor, the homeless, the down-and-out? Instead of staring at our navels until the next oligarch takes resident at 1600 Pennsylvania?

Richmond @ 87:

My 41 is pretty clear ain’t it?

Then again now that Murdoch is doing a fund raiser for Hillary

this is the only real reason I don’t want hillary

one of the things she MUST do is break up the murdock empire and she will not be able to because of his contributions

does anyone think this administration is above a threat?

Only the most naive. Look what they did on 9/11

They’re not coming home, and we’re not getting out of there until a DRAFT is enacted, and despite what you think, we’re closer to it. When that happens they will come home and many of the hundreds of initiatives you don’t know about Bush has ongoing will cease.

Until that day, blogs can blog, writers can write, MSM who doesn’t have a clue will cluck and lie surges are working, and the country will be by and large oblivious.

Let me know when the Dover coffins are shown on TV as much as Britney’s belly button. Be sure and let me know. I don’t see that happening now.

Well no, but that’s OK. I pulled an all nighter last night and am somewhat dazed.

I have now changed my mind, I don’t think they are holding anything over pelosi’s head, I think there is a threat of some sort, a threat against this country perhaps, a threat against her family

something, I don’t think they could blackmail her but I believe the could threaten her

During the 1964 presidential election race, Lyndon B. Johnson suggested that his campaign team air an ad alleging that an opponent had once had sexual relations with a donkey. An advisor pointed out the claim was untrue. “I know it’s not true,” Johnson replied, “but I want to hear him deny it!”

LINK

Yeah right – not likely!

off to work

later firedogs!

hey, I want to see mutt romney come in here and ask;

“who let these dogs out?”

I’ve spent my life voting for guys representing 2% of my interests. Without better representation, none of the sloganeering about voting means squat.

And enough Dems won’t fight the FISA till it dawns on them that their campaign planning has been listened in on.

I hear ya, and for two cents I’d join ya. The only thing that causes me to think twice about abstaining from this fiasco of a race is the thought of the Supreme Court and other federal court judge appointees. That leaves me in a serious dilemma. At this point, I’m not sure how it resolves itself.

sounds good, eg… greetings from “sunny” SoCal… (HA!)

egregious @ 95:

You moving to California?

[While the donkey ad was never run, Johnson did manage to air the first negative election ad in television history. In 1968, he ran a notorious ad showing a little girl picking a daisy, followed by a nuclear mushroom cloud - allegedly showing what life would be like under his moderate opponent, Barry Goldwater.]

I remember this ad.

Maybe I am bitter. But doesn’t these post-invasion studies seem like a little to little and a little to late? *grumble* I suppose we should be grateful the informatin is getting out there.

Yep, just registered to vote in CA. Took the application in personally to make sure it got there before the deadline for the primary. There were dozens of places to get an application and they were very efficient at the registration office. She took the application, checked it for a minute, and said would you like to vote right now or on election day?

Richmond @ 103:

My 41 is not clear? Really? What kind of all-nighter did you pull? *g*

1,734 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Richmond and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

“…now that Murdock is doin and fundraiser and Fox is comin’ out in support of her, against Obama’s truth speak, I think it is time to throw in the towel.”

And Murdock supportin’ Mrs. Clinton surprises you? And jest what is “Obama’s truth speak”…is that empty, ambiguous references to issues that can’t be held to a policy? Look at his statements on healthcare like “I’m concerned about the thousands of workers who hold jobs in the health insurance industry…” and ask yerself what part of the truth he is speakin’ and does it say a damned thing about what he plans ta do about the problem?

But whatever…don’t throw in the towel, if Edwards can’t get enough traction in South Carolina to shine a light on the issues for Super Tuesday, we still have the convention to scare the elected Democrats across the country into understandin’ that they can’t take the progressive base of the party for granted anymore. Don’t let the bastards take our votes for granted!!

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE FUCKIN AMMUNITION…YA CAN’T COMPROMISE WITH THE HANGMAN!!

Reid, reid. Talk about shit lists. The aclu has a new petition up. I suppose some of us need reminding to see if Edwards will step up and do what’s right, as Dodd has before him.

Martin Luther King III sent Edwards a letter telling him not to give up. And of course, there’s the wife. I am convinced Elizabeth is a strong person in Edwards life.

Don’t Forget To Start Making Those FISA Calls!

Chris Dodd’s campaign website may be defunct, but his widget for contacting Senators (from the last filibuster) is not!

Contact Clinton, Obama, and McCain and tell them to get back to DC to support Dodd.

You can even use the widget to contact Sen Dodd and tell him you support his efforts!

And if you have a thought for Sen Reid, you can call him here!

Like, one of those all-nighters when you don’t go to bed but stay up woking *g* (Mar deadline for this door stop size manu (600 pp) and the need to make sure a majority of sentences have verbs, the whole evokes something broadly defined as consistency, checking sources I cited so that most are saying somethin close to what I say they said. That sort of thing.

Citizen Norske: thanks!

Verbs highly overrated.

I agree with the sentiment that this report comes out nearly 5 years after the invasion. It should have come out in the run up to the war. This is something I fault the media for. If they had not been so busy cheerleading the Bush/Cheney warmongering, they would have had more time to, you know, do their jobs (unless you assume that cheerleading is their job).

This study establishes that the statements were false. Has anyone compiled the case that those who delivered these false statements did so knowing that they were false? It’s not that I have any doubt, but the Republicans will inevitably dismiss this report by blaming everthing on “bad intelligence,” and I’d like to have a document to point to that refutes that excuse.

A lie is still a lie whether the liar ever admits it or not. Bush and Cheney knew the intelligence community disagreed with their assessments. Cheney in his SOP simply went around this and set up his own mom and pop intelligence apparatus. Using really unreliable sources he manufactured a case that fit with his paranoid fantasies. Disaster followed.

Indeed when you look at it, Cheney waving a copy of the Times and citing an article that he had planted in it that even the NYT’s agreed with him, it becomes clear that he was making up a case for war. Both Bush and Cheney had a Constitutional and fiduciary responsibility to us the American people to address threats to this country using the best possible resources of the government. They chose deliberately not to do so. So yes, they did lie and engaged in a program of deceit to manipulate us into war. For this they should have been impeached at the time if our political system had not failed. But it did fail and continues to do so.

Nancy Pelosi should be on TV every day pumping out the stories about the disaster that is current day America.

I mean fathead Newt was on TV everyday whining about everything.

The Democratic leadership is so maddeningly inept.

I think they are the Manchurian candidates.

-G

I agree – also nouns and adjectives.

Murdoch supporting Hillary should not be really that surprising…He told the NY Post to lay off her a while back.

Butter on bread recognized

Dodd said in an email, that he can no longer use his email list to talk of FISA or the war due the FEC rules. I don’t know if that’s correct.

Nancy Pelosi should be on TV every day pumping out the stories about the disaster that is current day America.

You don’t see any of the Pelosis in Iraq do you? With rare exceptions no one in Congress (and I mean the House and Senate) has kids that went to or are going to Iraq. I can show you Senator after Senator Chickenhawk whose kids aren’t going.

Gov. Chickenhawk Romney sons aren’t going; they’re serving by shilling for Chickenhawk Romney roughing it in the deserts of wherever he campaigns.

Senator Clinton’s daughter isn’t going; she’s serving by shilling for her mom in the cities of California right now.

Senator Edwards’ oldest daughter isn’t going.

Only a DRAFT will focus the indifferent American mind (outside the blogosphere) on Iraq.

Blue Texan,

I still think it’s pretty remarkable that the country has just kind of moved on as though this actually didn’t happen.

Do you think it’s possible that a lot of people are just starting to learn what happened? It is pretty hard for most Americans [I know, not us] to believe their leaders are outright lying to them about something as important as going to war.

On Murdoch – It seems to be both the Corporate and War thing (military industrial complex). Murdoch also did a detente with Blair; quid pro quo. I’ll butter your bread, you butter mine as Mack notes

Dodd said in an email, that he can no longer use his email list to talk of FISA or the war due the FEC rules. I don’t know if that’s correct.

LOL what rules? The Rules of Dodd?

I don’t think Americans are dumb anymore than people who comment on FDL are dumb. They are frustrated because they cannot do anything about a situation they abhor. Take JFK’s assassination which I see as the beginning of our decline. Conspiracy? Single bullet? Lone Assassin? I not only believe conspiracy, but the rationale offered by the powers that be insults one’s intelligence. A nearly pristine bullet on a gurney which most likely never carried JFK’s body-give me a break.

The same is true for 9/11. A friend says he tried using his cell phone on an airplane several times without success. On the internet someone who purports to know about these things-actually you never know-says the reason you can’t use cell phones on airplanes is that the plane moves too quickly for the cell phone towers to recognize each other. The handshake protocol cannot be accomplished. If that is true, the explanation for the plane that crashed in PA goes up in smoke. It could be that plane was headed for the third tower and the pilots, marginal at best, simply lost control. It explains why the tower imploded late that afternoon. If radio activated explosives were in the building, the building had to come down before the explosives were discovered-or not.

My point is not only don’t we have all the necessary information, we couldn’t do anything if we did. So we call for impeachment which isn’t going to happen and think we do something.

Let me know when the Dover coffins are shown on TV as much as Britney’s belly button. Be sure and let me know. I don’t see that happening now.

I was impressed when I saw Joe Biden on TV saying that they wouldn’t even let him, a US Senator, the very Senator that represents that district, go on the base to see those coffins. Now that’s some display of power. Not to allow a Senator onto a portion of his own area and to deny him even a view of the coffins, much less show them on TV, in a supposedly open society. This is the kind of government we’re paying for.

I just saw Congressman Pete King on TV yesterday saying we should not be saying publicly what we will or won’t do in regard to national security and torture. And they call this man a patriot because he serves in the Congress. What does he serve? The ability to keep the citizens informed so that the government can govern with the advise and informed consent of the governed? No, the less you know, the better, per Rep. King.

the Clintons plan to win at any cost. We will get both of them. I dont think it is good for this country,
reply

And the thugs don’t? I never thought that I would live long enough to see what those f***ing criminals have done to this country. I am like Digby, an agnostic for the Pres, all support going for liberal challengers.

w3rd

Strong progressive majority is the only to address the important issues head-on.

egregious, having done phone banking for a campaign that had a wretched lying opponent, I can testify that there are an unbelievable amount of people who react aggressively toward the truth for reasons unknown. Maybe because they don’t want to admit they were fooled. It’s weird psychology. (I prefer to skip indefinite and definitive articles.)

He’s no longer a candidate for President, and there are very strict rules about people in Congress separating their political work from their regular office work. The staff have to be separate, money, etc.

You think Dodd is not telling the truth about the FEC rules?

From the man who can’t be named
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf029dYEufE

Bring’em home

Boy, Reverse King Midas sure has brought some peace to the Middle East in the wake of his trip, eh?

How soon before we see Bush standing in Gaza yelling: Mr. Olmert, Rebuild this wall!

-G

Both Dodd and Richardson have campaign debts. I am inclined to want to put a little in Dodd’s tip jar to fortify him for the FISA fight.

How do explain the DLC/DCCC caucus to put impeachment off the table because it would be inconvenient for a presidential run?

Biodun,

This isn’t a leading question. I’m trying to get an idea on how bad this split may be at this point. Do you feel it is more important at this point to ensure the defeat of Hillary Clinton or to ensure the defeat of the Republican Presidential candidate?

In AZ you can register to vote by internet. You can do a lot of other stuff by internet, too. I’m sure glad they discovered the use it. It’s much more convenient to pay for your plates on the internet rather than going in and waiting in line. It also cuts down considerably on the lines at the DMV.

Did anyone seen the headline that the CIA (or was it FBI) declared Bhutto’s murder to be an Al Quaeda op? How about just a lone assasssin? To me that would be more credible.

But does people using the call Senators thingy count? It just seemed like a cool way to skip the Capitol switchboard, you enter the numbers, the phone rings, and you get the Senators staff…

as in [?]

I would be very suspicious of the motives of a person who didn’t have defeat of any and all Thugs as the #1 priority.

And what’s John Edwards email again? Oh here: john@johnedwards.com

Phone and fax numbers for all the senators in alphabetical order, which I host on my small blog.

“Could Sen. Clinton and Obama maybe take a time out from attacking each other and start focusing on the real war?”

um, no. Who are you BT to ask that question? You live so far from DC that you have no idea what they have to deal with day in and day out, why just yesterday it’s this guy Chuck Knoblach, now that’s important. When discussions and questions like this come up I’m reminded of Robert Fisk’s 2/16/03 pre war article of his experience traveling throughout this great land: http://www.robert-fisk.com/
“It was a telling moment, a symbol of the vast gulf of reason between the pro- and anti-war movement in America. They don’t talk to each other. And if they do, neither comprehends the other. Like the endless chat programmes on Pacifica Radio and all the smaller liberal talk shows from Boston to LA that serve up inedible dollops of anti-Bush, anti-Republican rant, there is simply no contact between the intellectual “elite” of the left and the less privileged Americans who work with their hands and join the military to gain a free education and end up fighting America’s foreign wars.At a seminar at the University of North Carolina, I listened to a group of professors and senior lecturers and “activists” debating how to influence the “path to war”. “What we’ve got to do is to reach out to mainstream press and bridge-build to other activists,” a lady with long grey hair announced, reading a list of proposals – all couched in the language of academic discourse that ensures her message is incomprehensible outside academia – which she wished to discuss.

Quite apart from the irredeemable nature of the “mainstream” press – The New York Times, The Washington Post and the rest are far too busy carrying more Iraqi horror stories from “intelligence sources” than reporting the American anti-war movement – the lady’s desire to “bridge-build” with fellow “activists” was all too familiar a theme.

The people with whom these liberal academics should be building bridges are the truck-drivers and bell-hops and Amtrak crews, the poor blacks and the cops whose families provide the cannon fodder for America’s overseas military adventures. But that, of course, would force intellectuals to emerge from the sheltered, tenured world of seminars and sit-ins and deal directly with those whose opinions they wish to change.”…”But when I told a lecturer in Austin that I had asked hotel staff and air crews to turn up to my lectures on the Middle East and America – and that all had come – I was treated with a kind of weird amazement, puzzlement that I should bother to ask such unpromising material to think about the Arab-Israel conflict mixed with faint pity that I should ever expect them to understand.”

I mean how could DFH liberal/progressive stuck in the ’60’s make love not war types understand anything about the complexities of government? STOP STEROID USE NOW! (WIN!) or save social security, whatever…they’re leaders, we’re advocates.
Building Buddhas
F’in Riff-raff…”Get off my lawn!!!”

[modnote: fixed digby link]

egregious, when is FISA coming to the floor again. Do we know yet? I think we need Selise here too.

Nouns, verbs, adjectives, noun-verb agreement – all over rated.

Your priority would be the same as mine. But after watching HRC and Obama the other night, I started to get the feeling that things may have already gone too far. Their ego’s may result in a split which allows McCain to win. I’ve seen it too often and the issues are so critical this time, the Dems (and I’ve voted that way since ‘64) might as well give up trying to be a party. I was trying to get Bioduns view on the depth of the split.

selise has been working to redesign my scandals list and some other stuff. I’ll let her know she is missed.

This isn’t a leading question. I’m trying to get an idea on how bad this split may be at this point. Do you feel it is more important at this point to ensure the defeat of Hillary Clinton or to ensure the defeat of the Republican Presidential candidate?

Many of us are working hard to ensure the defeat of Senator Clinton and the defeat of either McCain or Romney–probably Romney–whichever is the Republican candidate.

Large Corporations Dominate Clinton Contributors

Do you happen to know where Selise has been lately? I know that she has a list of all the Senators and I believe the House of Representatives also. She’s made all this relatively easily convertible to your address book, which makes it much easier to broadcast a fax to, for instance, all the members of a certain congressional committee.

Christy has a new post upstairs about FISA Fundamentals!

Someplace, and I’m sure someone with Lexis-Nexis access might be able to find it is a quote by Beloved Leader from 1999 in an interview in SC, where he said he was going to make it priority of his (and his adminstration) to GET Saddam Hussein.

Creepy, that.

Well, that answer’s mui’s question I hope :)

U want another sleepless knight, and a doorstop to die for? try letting #151 due yer editifying. ;->

seriously: feel yer pain. knew profs who wouldn’t even read a 1st draft thesis; simply demanded it be cut in half, and then they’d start reading.

manuals take a gift. luck to ya fella ;->

Especially if you don’t want folks to read your writing.

selise has been working to redesign my scandals list and some other stuff. I’ll let her know she is missed.

that’s great to know she’s working on your list.
And also good to know she’s not lost. She is most definitely missed!

hey. it’s a manual. what’s the harm? heh.

None, unless someone actually needs to use the manual then it means a LOT.

Let’s send Soros after these guys next.

Or you can delete my comment again. Squashing of dissent and all…..

oops wrong link

apologies. forgot the /s

Agreed! NOTHING is much worse than having to use a badly written manual.

Do you know anyone who actually saw the planes and not clips of them on TV?

There is so much BS about those planes and the hijackers it boggles the mind. None of them were listed on any manifest, yet their names were released in less than 24 hrs and more than 7 are still alive. Stolen identities?

Where are all the tapes from the airports showing people in there on 9.11? Isn’t this what the CIA and FBI do… scour theses things?

The 9.11 conventional conspiracy was a lie

Yes. And tell her not to work too hard.

this is fucking hysterical. you delete the comments you don’t approve of….

can you say, GROUPTHINK? I knew you could not….

funny how things you accuse of others so directly apply to you all….

thanks for proving a point for me to my co-workers, ya’ll are gems!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

Oh thanks, Pete, that doesn’t really help me. I was sure you would know the ultimate answer, and be able to assure me that you can accomplish your objectives, but I was just interested in Biodun’s unique perspective.

like bombing or not bombing Iran.

I wonder if Bill Clinton did a kibuki dance if he would meet Obama’s criteria for being a brother?Maybe he could try it in South Carolina where Hillory has now been removed from the roster and Slash and Burn Bill has been left to pinch hit. And since Bill & Hill have morphed into the singularity of Billory, the tag team becomes a solo affair with that evil litigator for church groups,Barack Obama,and the first ever Blach-Eye to the Presidency of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton facing off. ( emphasis on the Jefferson it is so not Hussein). Marquis of Queensbury rules long abandoned,it seems that it is appropriate that ” Brother Bill ” clarify the record.”What would youse do clarifications ” would be in order in the pursuit of truth and to illuminate the possible road ahead.Clarity please: Can we depend on youse to clarify what the meaning of is is when Hillory is in needs to simplify things for the public?What were youse doing bombing an aspirin factory and what did youse do or plan to do about Islamic terrorism? Why didn’t youse do that before?What pardons do youse contemplate and will Hillory’s brothers or your brother Roger play a role?Will youse still pardon drug dealers,embezzlers ,and thiefs and if so how big of a donation to the library is necessary? Are we better off than before you pushed through Nafta and Gatt exporting jobs and importing foreign capitol and debt along with illegal aliens displaced by your failed policies? Where was youse concern for labor and why did youse make America uncompetitive without safeguards?How much money did Hillory make from these policies with ( Tyson help) while sitting on corporate boards( Walmart and others) or using your clout to gain clients for Rose Law firm and Hillary? What are youse secret for 10,000% stock profits and 20 million dollar deals with sultans in the Middle East?Why did youse administration do nothing about energy when youse were in the oval office? Did youse foreign contribution from Hsu, Charlie Tree, Ng, and Johnny Chung among others cloud youse judgement?Why did youse let 800,000 fellow brothers in Africa perish in genocide?What were youse doing in the White House? We know you wagged your finger and told us ” I did not have sex with that women” then what were youse doing with those cigar parties in the peoples house and why was the Lincoln bedroom a fundraising tool? Will youse release the records of youse Presidency so we can have transparency and know the extent of Hillory’s involvement or should we base our judgement on Hillory’s administrative ability to enact health care or run the White House travel office? Will youse promise not to abuse FBI files again? As the welfare reformers will you get Hillary’s brother( married to Barbara Boxer’s daughter) to take care of his children and pay the back child support he owes after all youse are Auntie and Uncle?Will youse stop using Martin Luther King as a prop when youse know Hillary supported his nemesis Barry Goldwater who fought agaist justice and equality and who was opposed to all civil and voting rights? If you can’t do that will you promise not to sleep while his son is honoring the memory of his deceased father? While King opposed the War in Vietnam, Hillory’s guy Barry Goldwater wanted to use nuclear weapons in the war.-Why did Hillory support that position and why did youse favor the use of landmines and why does Hillory favors employing cluster bombs in areas which endanger civilians?( you said it facts are strange things)Is Hillory’s vote for the banking and credit card industry’s Bankruptcy Bill and then saying she was happy that it failed something like it depends on what the meaning of is is? Why does Ruppert Murdoch embrace Hillary and why did youse support the Telecommunications Bill and deregulation which treatens our very Democracy?Can we expect this double whammy- hydra style approach to continue to denigrate this campaign with negativity and do you expect the American people after 8 years of ” W” to endure this for 8 more years of your soap opera? Could you just
Hill- Bill- Ease

Only a draft will provide them with enough soldiers to continue on the present suicidal course.

Nationalizing war profits could be an alternative for the draft.

1,734 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Large corporations dominate Clinton contributors

And jest where does Barak O’Lieberman’s money come from?!! Clinton is toast if ol’ Barak could stand up for progressive positions on the war, healthcare and the Bush-Reagan tax cuts…but alas,we get a lotta gobbledygook and whinin’ about how both Clintons are attackin’ ‘im and it’s oh so racist and, by the way, don’t ask about what his politics are, he hasta ask the Daleys.

KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T TRADE TWEEDLEDEE FOR TWEEDLEDUMB

Trust this, WMDs were found and reported:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00530.html

http://www.energy.gov/news/1388.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124576,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor…..872201.stm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html

Simple error caused by lack of coffee. I’d never intentionally equate any of the leading Dem candidates with terrorists, though I honestly believe Bush & Cheney and the lot are bigger terrorists than any measly old Al Qaida gang.

My error was commenting before the first morning coffee had unclogged the synapses, and I apologize to Barack Obama.

Another take on the same news story: Magic Number: 935

You forgot your /s tag on those.

I remember most of those articles when originally published. And note the use of “could have” “might be” and all the other caveats. That is, those weren’t actual, real, live WMD. The sarin and mustard gas modules were residuals from the ’80s that had lost effectiveness. The other (nuclear/radioactive materials) were on the same level of what Iran has today.

And for me it is WAY too nebulous to be worth the price we’ve paid in lifes and money either one.

It’s true I don’t know anyone who actually saw the planes, but I believe many people on NY streets saw the planes hit the towers. I don’t know about 7 hi-jackers still alive, but if what you say is so, it doesn’t explain what happened to the planes and passengers if they didn’t hit the towers. My point wasn’t to revisit 9-11 and the official explanation, though I believe the visit worth while though off topic, I wanted to discuss what we might do that would be more effective than complaining blog comments.

As for der1 at 151, I not sure what you are driving at, but if we are to build bridges, I suggest we build bridges to the police and military. They will be the ones who break our heads if the sh*t hits the fan. Perhaps we can persuade them ahead of time that we are the patriots, not the office holders they support with their clubs.

Can we impeach them now?

My friends husband is on deployment for another 12 months (15 total) – she is having a baby this week…but will not see his son until he is 1 year old. This woman also worked at Walter Reed and had told me of the poor conditions and people like Bob Dole and Condi Rice coming in to the VIP marble bathroom rooms and demanding immediate care for a hang-nail while she had patients down the hall with no stomach.

The problem for Bush is that he lied to Congress in his 2003 SOTU. You would like to quibble, and brush it off, and say the Dems do it all the time…

But lying to Congress is an impeachable offense. That’s a bit of a problem for your hero, but if you don’t want to believe it, and you don’t think this country deserves better, that’s your business.

Is a fib really a fib if the teller is unaware that he is uttering an untruth? That question appears to be the basis of the White House defense, having now admitted a falsehood in President Bush’s claim, in his State of the Union address, that Iraq had tried to buy uranium in Africa. But that defense is under mounting pressure from a variety of sources claiming that the White House could not have been unaware that the claim was false, because it had been checked out — and debunked — by U.S. intelligence a year before the President repeated it.

25: Ding and correct.

28: Correct. But in many cases it is a team thing (Red Sox, Yankees) and a tactics thing (crying, accusations, your guy did this, your gal did that, etc) – its not like most of this getting into bed has to do with a differnce in policy. It seems like people pick their winners and want them to win no matter what (rose colored glasses time). This pattern does not apply to people who really dig into politics, but is something apply to casual observers.

Most everyone else on this thread: Correct, Correct, Ding, Ding.

And perhaps Bush disavowing the NIE on Iran has something to do with outing these lies (or allowing them to be reported on).

what could POSSIBLY be so bad?

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anything that puts her personal political or financial future in the slightest doubt.

“W” found some under the chairs at the correspondence dinner too.Give me a break.Precursors and 20 year old agents are ineffective and if you really think Iraq was an imminent danger to the most powerful country on earth, go get a chemical suit, gas mask, and hide in the desert.

The reality of war is numbing

The whole thing is a joke to these pricks. There should be no games allowed… if there is an AUMF, then a. mandatory draft and, b. nationalize the defense contractors.

Then, this bullshit would never happen again.