Login HereJohn Edwards:
In Washington today, telecom lobbyists have launched a full-court press to win retroactive immunity for their illegal eavesdropping on American citizens. Granting retroactive immunity will let corporate law-breakers off the hook and hamstring efforts to learn the truth about Bush's illegal spying program.
"It's time for Senate Democrats to show a little backbone and stand up to George W. Bush and the corporate lobbyists. They should do everything in their power -- including joining Senator Dodd's efforts to filibuster this legislation -- to stop retroactive immunity. The Constitution should not be for sale at any price."
Well...yes. And that includes candidates, you know, leaving the campaign trail to do their jobs. Which Obama and Clinton can -- and should -- do. South Carolina is an hour and a half plane ride away.
Get thee to DC and filibuster, Senators.
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Everyone is still asleep?
I think there is no stronger, more impressive form of leadership than a noncommittal statement, and I would expect nothing less from our future president, Barackhillary Obamaclinton.
What is more important? Their jobs or our country?
((((( Jane )))))
… hope you’re in the pink of health …
I missed the show, is Edwards going to DC to show support?
Nice.
I like Edwards.
Clinton and Obama might show up in Davos…but DC, come on.
Dang, a hat trick…! ;-)
I don’t know what to say. I am still stunned that Leahy has joined Reid in trying to hurry the FISA thing through.
Clinton and Obama are against immunity for the telecoms just as much as Harry Reid.
GnomeDP!
Well … look what the cat dragged in ! *g*
Compare Edwards and Dodd: to Obama and Bill and Hillary Clinton.
The hell you say …
Come on, would you choose your Constitutional duty over Swiss chocolate?
Yeah … sizzle sells over substance …
Heh! What’s good for the goose… eh? I’ve been net-less for the past week… 8-(
Hey back at you! I was thinking about you the other day, wondering if you’d found more good local history to study.
Great line.
What does the DLC have to say?
Leahy has really disabused me of any notions I had of him being a man of that stern Yankee cloth, a descendant of Ethan Allen’s Green Mountain Boys, etc, etc…
Only if it was super good dark chocolate.
Am I wrong, or could Reid have simply thrown up his hands and said, “Alas, I am helpless before the sacred power of Teh Hold. I’d really love to help you fellas out with destroying the concept of accountability before the law, but that mean ol’ Mr. Dodd won’t let me. I guess you’ll just have to grit your teeth and vote for the Judiciary version, because that’s the only one he’ll let through.”?
Has Leahy lost his spine? What’s been going on while I was away?
I had hoped Edwards would be stronger.
Glad to hear you’re alright though …
What caused your netlessness, CTuttle? We’ve missed you!
Dick Cheney controls Harry Reid!
Leahy lost me when he endorsed Obama.
No..he doesn’t have the votes but he doesn’t have to be so damned helpful.
The more I think about it, the more I think shooting Whittington (who is *also* named Harry, IIRC) in the face was not an accident; more of a message.
“That’s right, I’m one crazy mofo! If I’ll shoot my own friend in the face, just think what I might do to *you*.”
Most definitely… getting over the withdrawals, I was shaking pretty bad there for a spell… *g*
Digg this post!
Yeah, that’s what pisses me off. He’s not getting steamrolled; he’s actively *facilitating*.
Each day I awaken with the thought we are being led by Nancy and Reid. And soon maybe, the likes of Hillary or Obama. Or perhaps both. Depressing.
Computer probs…
That’s a pretty tepid statement from Edwards. It’s not just retroactive immunity, it’s also prospective immunity…and allowing warrantless surveillance by Executive fiat.
I was hoping he would also avoid the easy response that he would continue campaigning while Obama and Clinton were involved in supporting Dodd. He should have offered to suspend his campaigning in the time they were filibustering.
Clinton lost me when she voted with Bush to attack Iraq.
it seems he recieved our message but he was not nearly as persuasive as I imagined he would be
he is limiting the scope of the illegal spying to the bush administration but that is not the only place the scope of spying lands
these telcoms were able to participate, they were also able to gather the information that we need to protect, they were also allowed to gather our valuable information, data we have acquired over our entire lifetime, this administration and their corporate accplices have been allowed to aquire
information worth billions and billions of dollars, not to mention the giving these criminals the data they might use to blackmail our lawmakers
HEY…PELOSI…HAVE YOU BEEN BLACKMAILED?
why else would she allow these criminals to run free?
edwards was at best, heard on the issue
but that’s all
That’s my understanding. Reid had lots of options. He could have respected the hold. He could have put forward the SJC version as the base bill. He could force the Republicans to mount real filibusters. His power to affect the Senate’s agenda was evident in how he was able to pull the FISA bill at a moment’s notice in December.
And Obama lost me when he became a rock star.
He would have been heard a little more widely if he had actually said something about it when he was on TV tonight. Twice.
A lttle while ago, somebody mentioned that as a former senator, Edwards can, like, still go there and hang out. Shouldn’t he be doin’ that? Jeez. If a former Senator can show up, no reason why BO & HRC can’t. I mean, that’s why he’s in this thing - to keep pressure on them. Force them to do good stuff they wouldn’t otherwiswe dram of doin.’ Could he do that most effectively if he took a trip to DC himself?
I agreed with Dodd’s assertion that he wouldn’t be standing there if it had occurred only a short time after 911, but, enough is enough, already…
Yes. And if Hillary and Obama don’t show up, then they’ve shown that they don’t have the leadership qualities and courage we need in a president. And if they show up after/because Edwards shows up, then they’re followers.
If we are waiting for Mr. Reid and Ms. Pelosi to behave like Democrats, we’ll be waiting ’til the cows come home.
Yeah. My understanding too that Reid had options but doesn’t wanna do shit. Bum.
Why didn’t you include Clinton’s other head in this–Bill? Remember him?
Two Heads…
Has it occurred to anyone complaining about Senator Clinton and Obama not coming off the trail right before Feb. 5 that His Bully Pulpitness himself has been mum on FISA. Cats certainly don’t have his tongue though. He’s been bopping all over South Carolina trying to attack the press/Obama.
Bill Clinton has had as much to say on FISA as the mute Chelsea Clinton who trots around saying nothing.
I don’t see how leaving the campaign trail is going to get the docile democrats to help with the 60 vote dilemma except to add 2 more votes to the 60 margin needed.
60 votes to invoke cloture–they have them.
60 votes to add an amendment besides Feinstein’s absurd amendment having the FISA court decide what constitutes Comco and Telcom law breaking when we have a Court system in place in 94 federal districts to do just that is the work of someone who is bizarrely naive and not a lawyer–that’d be Senatuh Difi and her two cronies Carden and Nelson.
Feinstein’s Absurd Exclusivity Amendment Made in Senate today
The FISA Court, for the record has been the toothless overseer of warantless wiretapping since 1978–and it has denied five warants out of 18761 warrants which were granted through the end of 2004. The record is worse 3 years later, but we don’t know how bad.
The impression here is that Obama and Clinton have already shown a lack of leadership qualities.
I had high hopes for Edwards. I hope we have not heard the last from him on FISA.
Reid and Pelosi are shameful.
Hi, all
I’ve been away from the toobz this afternoon. When/where was this statement of Edwards’ made? I’m assuming it’s from today. Is there a link? Something?
Seems like the usual amount of “sourcing” would be appropriate here.
EPUd from downstairs: Look out world! Jane’s on the warpath! Still got the swear jar handy, Suzanne?
FunnyDiva
Harry Reid runs the Senate, it’s the Majority Leader’s playground. With two bills reported out of separate committees, he could have chosen either one. He chose the Immunity For Lawbreakers Bill that Jello Jay reported out. Then he ignored Dodd’s hold while respecting the holds of GOPs on other issues.
He is actively enabling the lawbreaking of the Bush Administration. What does Dick Cheney have on Harry Reid, his family, friends, associates, or loved ones? What?
But all the while, he keeps saying that no-one is more opposed to telecom immunity than he is, but he has to follow established procedure and do everything by the book.
I can sort of give him a pass on using the bad bill as a starting point, because as I understand it, that *is* the standard procedure (he does have the prerogative to deviate from that - the Republicans would scream bloody murder, but who cares, and they’d do it themselves in a heartbeat), but I can’t give him a pass on ignoring the hold and enforcing the filibuster, when he refused to do *either* when they were employed by Republicans.
Awful, just awful. I wish there was some way we could pick our own damn party leadership.
ooohhhh…tastey, yum
Ya think?
Forgiveness by repentance for Edwards? I think he really did change after 04-05..for some reason Russ Feingold isn’t buying it and I am not sure why.
There we disagree, OKK. I consider them shameless.
Dodd should be the Senate Majority Leader… I’m mixed on who should replace Ms. Pelosi… Waxman…? Heh, Maxine Waters…? ;-)
When did Leahy have a spine? He has held some hearings, asked a few good questions, shown some indignation, but seriously what has he done? If you go back to the Roberts nomination, he told Roberts that he didn’t know if Roberts would respect precedent as he said because he had been so dodgy on the issues and then said that he would vote for Roberts anywhere. By failing to oppose Roberts, Leahy set the stage for Alito’s confirmation.
My take on Leahy is that he is way too comfortable and insulated from the effects of his decisions. It’s why he gets on so well with Snarlin’ Arlen. They both are more comfortable talking than actually doing anything.
Second that, on Leahy.
pelosi is one of three things;
1) being blackmailed after been spyed on by the nsa
2) being threatened in some shape or form, for instance, the security of the our country might be in the ballance from one of these threats, sort of like;
“you know, I could create a catastrophy, declare martial law and end the impeachment and remain president for life”
or
3) in love with bush and doing a lewinsky
Oops, forgot the follow-up on the bad-bill-as-the-starting-point: *If* Reid promised to honor Dodd’s hold, then it would be Intelligence version or nothing, and that would give him the leverage to either get the good version passed, or just let the bad one expire.
But one of the requirements here is sufficient nerve and spine to stand firm while the Republicans shriek that the expiration of PAA will leave us wide open to terrorist attack, and that we can’t protect the country without telecom immunity. And Harry has less spine than an inchworm.
#4 She just has no integrity at all.
I’m not a good speller. ;0)
I’m not sure who it was last night that kept posting pictures (and possibly videos) of her and Dubya making goo-goo eyes at each other. It was *horrible*.
Lots of intimate shops in the Tenderloin.
According to a post by Tim Tagaris (Dodd’s former internet campaign chief) over at Open Left, Dodd’s potential filibuster is causing him major problems among his senate colleagues:
This might be a stronger statement from Edwards than it would first appear, given how the politics of the Senate Dem. caucus seems to be going against Dodd and Feingold.
Well, we do know that the SF branch of ATT was tapped… ;-)
Movie time with Lahoma.
Fight on good and dear people.
L and okk
me too.
It is why I have decided to refer to them as Republicans from here on out. They are archetypal DINOs. Calling them Republicans eliminates any mistaken idea they will act as Democrats.
Aloha, OKK and lahoma!
Others also voted with Bush on the Iraq AUF, I recall.
In other words, “We *want* a Majority Leader who won’t oppose the Republicans; we *don’t* want a Majority Leader who will.”
That’s certainly encouraging, I must say.
/Ed Grimley
And Harry has
lessno spinethan an inchworm. Or balls for that matter.They’ve got the Majority Leader they want. No question about that.
Alright Jane, I got your email. I just wrote John Edwards:
Speaking of AT&T, what are the chances that the NSA has all the missing emails from the White House?
There are some things that should not be spoken aloud.
I am sitting here with a copy of the Rules on filibusters and Cloture….With the Thugs and the Bush Dogs he doesn’t have the votes to stop it. What pisses me off is he could play chicken and make them spend weeks grinding it out hour by hour vote by vote. (BTW there really is no special thing called a “hold”) The Thug “holds” are “honored” because he doesn’t have the votes to bring the bill to the floor.
Like this:
http://www.dahothouse.com/media/friends.jpg
Bleurgh!
Poi-fect… pictures don’t lie…! ;-)
The other Democrats in question:
Edwards apologized for his vote some time ago. Clinton voted for the AUMF, supported the war until June 2006, and has steadfastly refused to apologize for her AUMF vote (or her long support of the war).
passing telecom immunity has nothing to do with democrats being spineless. it has EVERYTHING to do with democrats being corrupt - just like their republican brethren.
.
I think I preferred the Giuliani clown shoes image … *g*
You know! This off-the-cuff response to the FISA “Fix-It” temporary measure in August by Edwards was a lot more powerful than his remarks above.
Edwards on FISA Fix August 2007
His focus only on retroactive immunity rather than the provisions in the same bill about allowing the AG and Director of Intelligence to waive FISA scutiny, granting PROSPECTIVE immunity, or basket warrants…seems so lawyerly that it’s almost worrisome.
With a complicit Media, the netroots are really the only ones that are up to speed on this issue. See the way they have planned to get telco immunity thru for the lobbyists against the best interests of the country?
More telling than the Edwards apology was when Kerry talked about strong arming Edwards to vote against his own instincts, in favor of AUMF …
It should be pretty clear by now that other than Dodd, no one in the Senate really gives a crap about telecom immunity right now. They want a bill and they want to avoid a veto fight.
Hi folks…
I was thinking that if Obama/Clinton decide not to show up that Edwards could certainly use that fact to his advantage…
That would be an effective strategy for Edwards….
That is probably a much more accurate diagnosis; and probably applies to most other examples of apparent cowardice.
(Bit hard to explain the refusal to vote for contempt citations that way, tho)
Kerry told John that all the cool kids were going to vote for it.
We don’t know if they intentionally destroyed emails, and it’s hard to believe that they were so stupid with the IT personnel they had access to that they mistakenly destroyed emails and backups, and I suspect they have them but are simply hiding them and lying about them.
On the emails, you should definitely check out the EW tab for the last few days, because Marcy has done splendid work in analyzing this along with her commenters.
Reid has great discretion over what gets to the Senate floor, when it gets there, and how it is taken up. So what is happening to the Intel version of the FISA bill is all the result of what he wanted. This is another example of an engineered vote where most Democrats including Reid can vote against it while knowing that it will pass.
… there was a bit more to it than that …
It’s a kangaroo senate.
That is why it will be interesting to see were MSM vs WJC goes. He is starting to call bullshit on the media and they don’t like it. It is turning into a knife fight.
Fucking Red Sox going to put a corporate (EMC) logo on their uniform for pre-season and regular season games in Japan.
Glad they are playing in Japan and wish they would leave the sponsers off the uniforms.
Only a small percentage of voters in the netroots will understand how Reid f*cked us. Will we be enough to unseat him?
I’ve been keeping up with EW religiously. My question was more aimed at, even though the emails are missing from the servers, they may have been intercepted along the way courtesy of AT&T.
Perhaps ATT still has the emails in their possession it actually would be considerable collateral….
PR guy talking about how its a “historic moment”.
I consider it to be more like the Duma in the old USSR. Largely (completely?) ceremonial.
“Can someone explain to me how “bipartisan” ever means anything but giving the wingnuts what they want so they don’t pitch a bitch in the corner?”
LOL Jane. sad but true.
The Dems are afraid of getting ‘Bitch Slapped’ again. They would all benefit from a 12 step Repub-anon meeting or two. (or three, or 100. actually it’s a life long process.)