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	<title>Comments on: Bailing Out Bush: Economic Stimulus for Whom?</title>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1221575</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 04:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1221575</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Isn’t the way Romney made his money a big contribitor to the current problems
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Today I asked a Republican to consider first the times and conditions in which we live and then to create a Frankenstein presidential candidate. I asked, “What kind of president do we need for these times?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I could see the wheels turning and a sort of weird light going off moment and then very quickly a turning away from the realization that Edwards is THE GUY. He suggested instead Mitt Romney, but still added the question about what Romney had done to make his money.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They can’t admit their guys are flawed and refuse to admit what they know for a fact…John Edwards is THE GUY.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Isn’t the way Romney made his money a big contribitor to the current problems
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Today I asked a Republican to consider first the times and conditions in which we live and then to create a Frankenstein presidential candidate. I asked, “What kind of president do we need for these times?”</p>
<p>I could see the wheels turning and a sort of weird light going off moment and then very quickly a turning away from the realization that Edwards is THE GUY. He suggested instead Mitt Romney, but still added the question about what Romney had done to make his money.</p>
<p>They can’t admit their guys are flawed and refuse to admit what they know for a fact…John Edwards is THE GUY.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1221550</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 04:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1221550</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Cancel debt or walk away from them…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What happens when tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands… millions of people walk away from the debts?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You tell me.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Banks don’t want to own and maintain millions of properties… they can’t afford it!
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hopefully the economic stimulus package will help to ease people through this difficult time. But, as any stimulus plan can only have limited effects for a limited time it would behoove the government to fix our problems for the long-haul.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Fixing the problems means stopping predatory lending and the awful ARMs and somehow ameliorating the nastiest effects of those ARMs which are coming due in larger and larger numbers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I suggested some legislation last fall and I believe Senator Chris Dodd began to work on something too. The idea is to allow for refinancing, renegotiation of terms and some kind of court-sanctioned fix, so people can continue to afford to pay their mortgage payments. But, I have read, some companies don’t want to do that. I don’t know why. There are also various opinions in Congress of which kind of ‘fix’ is needed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The severity of the problem would indicate we should try several if not all of the possible solutions, so we might find at least one or two which will help.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;People will have to walk about from their debts if there is no ‘fix’ in sight. It isn’t a character flaw or gameing the system, it’s just a reality that if you don’t have the cash to pay, then you can’t pay. Apparently the front-line lenders don’t care since they’ve packaged up the loans and sold them to somebody else, people like Citi.tBank and Countrywide Mortgage. Those folks &lt;strike&gt; are going to take &lt;/strike&gt; have taken some falls.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes, banks don’t want the houses and the cost of managing them. I would suggest they write off something like 15% as loss and try to re-sell those houses quickly. If losses are not willing incurred they will be felt more powerfully when, over time, housing prices fall even further and the banks will not only have losses, but housing management costs building up on their books.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Take a hit now to avoid a big loss later!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>Cancel debt or walk away from them…</p>
<p>What happens when tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands… millions of people walk away from the debts?</p>
<p>You tell me.</p>
<p>Banks don’t want to own and maintain millions of properties… they can’t afford it!
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hopefully the economic stimulus package will help to ease people through this difficult time. But, as any stimulus plan can only have limited effects for a limited time it would behoove the government to fix our problems for the long-haul.</p>
<p>Fixing the problems means stopping predatory lending and the awful ARMs and somehow ameliorating the nastiest effects of those ARMs which are coming due in larger and larger numbers.</p>
<p>I suggested some legislation last fall and I believe Senator Chris Dodd began to work on something too. The idea is to allow for refinancing, renegotiation of terms and some kind of court-sanctioned fix, so people can continue to afford to pay their mortgage payments. But, I have read, some companies don’t want to do that. I don’t know why. There are also various opinions in Congress of which kind of ‘fix’ is needed.</p>
<p>The severity of the problem would indicate we should try several if not all of the possible solutions, so we might find at least one or two which will help.</p>
<p>People will have to walk about from their debts if there is no ‘fix’ in sight. It isn’t a character flaw or gameing the system, it’s just a reality that if you don’t have the cash to pay, then you can’t pay. Apparently the front-line lenders don’t care since they’ve packaged up the loans and sold them to somebody else, people like Citi.tBank and Countrywide Mortgage. Those folks <strike> are going to take </strike> have taken some falls.</p>
<p>Yes, banks don’t want the houses and the cost of managing them. I would suggest they write off something like 15% as loss and try to re-sell those houses quickly. If losses are not willing incurred they will be felt more powerfully when, over time, housing prices fall even further and the banks will not only have losses, but housing management costs building up on their books.</p>
<p>Take a hit now to avoid a big loss later!</p>
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		<title>By: DieselDave09</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220487</link>
		<dc:creator>DieselDave09</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220487</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The money needs to go where it will do the most good.  For this country, the money should go to the owners and CEOs of the major corporations.  They are the ones that hire us and pay our insurance premiums and permit us to live in good neighborhoods.  By ensuring that CEOs receive millions in bonuses and paychecks, we are ensured stable jobs and excellent benefits.  To curtail the tax breaks that these leaders receive would be the height of insanity.  They provide for the poor and homeless while employing millions of ordinary folks in their companies.  These people are heros and deserve every cent they get.  Target the top 1% for massive tax breaks to bring this economy back.  To do any less for these business giants would be treason to this country.  Save yourselves by saving the rich.  It’s the only patriotic thing to do.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;[Mod Note; snark tag closed]&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The money needs to go where it will do the most good.  For this country, the money should go to the owners and CEOs of the major corporations.  They are the ones that hire us and pay our insurance premiums and permit us to live in good neighborhoods.  By ensuring that CEOs receive millions in bonuses and paychecks, we are ensured stable jobs and excellent benefits.  To curtail the tax breaks that these leaders receive would be the height of insanity.  They provide for the poor and homeless while employing millions of ordinary folks in their companies.  These people are heros and deserve every cent they get.  Target the top 1% for massive tax breaks to bring this economy back.  To do any less for these business giants would be treason to this country.  Save yourselves by saving the rich.  It’s the only patriotic thing to do.</p>
<p><em>[Mod Note; snark tag closed]</em></p>
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		<title>By: hazmaq</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220285</link>
		<dc:creator>hazmaq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220285</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This whole ‘crisis’ is beginning to smell -and smell bad!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You won’t hear from our ‘TERROR! lovin friends on the Right and the Left how our economy is ‘in a slump’ because we are, in effect, under a worldwide boycott.  No one wants to spend their tourist dollars here, no one wants to buy our shit -because we either make bad shit or no shit that appeals to the outside world.  Gas guzzlin cars? Chemical laden cheese food?&lt;br /&gt;
And those reduced sales -or no sales -hit the working people of America the hardest.  The businesses, not so much.  This pathetic Congress made sure they were OK.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, while we’re being forced to exist on their crappy cheese food because  we can no longer afford real chees - the businessses continued their whining and assholes like neocon Larry Kudlow and most of Clintons donors screamed for bigger rate cuts and benefits, while at the same time took advantage of every working man they could get their hands on.&lt;br /&gt;
And again they got big break - while my grandma was given a whopping  $16.00 for her yearly cost of living increase.  $1.33 a month.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But do you know what the real irony here is?  Every financial analyst -even those on Fox, are now surprised how easy it was to get what they wanted. They’re in shock at how “the Fed panicked”.&lt;br /&gt;
Businesses got another free pass from our own government at the same time  the government admits they f***ed us all over.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Even I’m beginning to hate us too.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole ‘crisis’ is beginning to smell -and smell bad!</p>
<p>You won’t hear from our ‘TERROR! lovin friends on the Right and the Left how our economy is ‘in a slump’ because we are, in effect, under a worldwide boycott.  No one wants to spend their tourist dollars here, no one wants to buy our shit -because we either make bad shit or no shit that appeals to the outside world.  Gas guzzlin cars? Chemical laden cheese food?<br />
And those reduced sales -or no sales -hit the working people of America the hardest.  The businesses, not so much.  This pathetic Congress made sure they were OK.</p>
<p>So, while we’re being forced to exist on their crappy cheese food because  we can no longer afford real chees &#8211; the businessses continued their whining and assholes like neocon Larry Kudlow and most of Clintons donors screamed for bigger rate cuts and benefits, while at the same time took advantage of every working man they could get their hands on.<br />
And again they got big break &#8211; while my grandma was given a whopping  $16.00 for her yearly cost of living increase.  $1.33 a month.</p>
<p>But do you know what the real irony here is?  Every financial analyst -even those on Fox, are now surprised how easy it was to get what they wanted. They’re in shock at how “the Fed panicked”.<br />
Businesses got another free pass from our own government at the same time  the government admits they f***ed us all over.</p>
<p>Even I’m beginning to hate us too.</p>
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		<title>By: rwcole</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220281</link>
		<dc:creator>rwcole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220281</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dems need to advocate some form of economic relief- and equally sized checks to every american are a dem form of doing business. It’s what they proposed (and did) last time Clusterfuck put us into a recession- don’t know just what the effect was- someone should study it real quick. Last time it was followed up with GW Dipshit tax cuts for the rich.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Seems to me that progressives should be in favor of any policy that works and avoids a depression- the poor don’t do well in depressions. Let’s all read the Grapes of Wrath again.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dems need to advocate some form of economic relief- and equally sized checks to every american are a dem form of doing business. It’s what they proposed (and did) last time Clusterfuck put us into a recession- don’t know just what the effect was- someone should study it real quick. Last time it was followed up with GW Dipshit tax cuts for the rich.</p>
<p>Seems to me that progressives should be in favor of any policy that works and avoids a depression- the poor don’t do well in depressions. Let’s all read the Grapes of Wrath again.</p>
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		<title>By: rwcole</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220273</link>
		<dc:creator>rwcole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220273</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think the markets have voted “no” on any stimulus package that involves giving lots of money to poor people.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the markets have voted “no” on any stimulus package that involves giving lots of money to poor people.</p>
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		<title>By: MyrtleJune</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220242</link>
		<dc:creator>MyrtleJune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220242</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The answer to this and every other problem we face is “Change one thing”. Just one. That would begin and end with the president. And I’m sorry but a retread will not work in the change department. I’m tire of running on retreads. NEW and progressive tires only will carry us to where we want to be. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Stimulus for who? For the same people who created the crisis to begin with. That makes perfect sense in bush/clinton/bush/clinton world. around and around we go.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The answer to this and every other problem we face is “Change one thing”. Just one. That would begin and end with the president. And I’m sorry but a retread will not work in the change department. I’m tire of running on retreads. NEW and progressive tires only will carry us to where we want to be. </p>
<p>Stimulus for who? For the same people who created the crisis to begin with. That makes perfect sense in bush/clinton/bush/clinton world. around and around we go.</p>
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		<title>By: goldberry</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220197</link>
		<dc:creator>goldberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220197</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oo, Oo!  What about making the Bush tax cuts permanent?  Have we forgotten that that’s going to be wrung out of us?  Or what Melissa Frances talked about yesterday on MSNBC: corporate tax cuts!  I’m sure the money saved would be funneled to workers by increaaing their salaries, right?&lt;br /&gt;
The Bush administration has succeeded beyond it’s wildest dreams and they were able to do it because no one stepped up to them and told them NO early in the game.  And now, it’s almost too late.&lt;br /&gt;
I’m sorry, Obama fans.  He is going to be so over his head come next January.  If it were any other election year, I would gladly support him.  But this is not that year.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oo, Oo!  What about making the Bush tax cuts permanent?  Have we forgotten that that’s going to be wrung out of us?  Or what Melissa Frances talked about yesterday on MSNBC: corporate tax cuts!  I’m sure the money saved would be funneled to workers by increaaing their salaries, right?<br />
The Bush administration has succeeded beyond it’s wildest dreams and they were able to do it because no one stepped up to them and told them NO early in the game.  And now, it’s almost too late.<br />
I’m sorry, Obama fans.  He is going to be so over his head come next January.  If it were any other election year, I would gladly support him.  But this is not that year.  </p>
<p><a href="http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: tanbark</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220172</link>
		<dc:creator>tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220172</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;eCAHN; not a dream a’tall.   If you think that 6 months from now we’re going to be sailing right along in this election with about the same level of intensity and the same “unity”, and the same level of nervousness from the voters, that we have now, then I have that oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Boys and girls, we aint seen nuthin’ yet.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think most of us would agree that the clusterfuck in Iraq is hanging by the slim thread(s) of those bribes to the Sunnis and by the “truce” from and between the Shiite factions (about 90 killed in the past 3 days in intramural fighting in the south, mostly around Karbala.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also, sometime in late June or early July that referendum on Kirkuk is scheduled to rear it’s ugly head again, and this time, the price-point to bush for the Kurds postponing it another 6 months to likely put it on the democrats watch, is going to be astronomical.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;   The Kurds know perfectly well that they have bush’s nads in the vise, and they don’t give a tinker’s damn about “Greater Iraq”.   They postponed the referendum this time because they know that by mid-summer that bargaining chip will be 24K gold, Bro. :o) &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This morning, the NYSE would have preferred to not open at all, rather than risk the news of another, if somewhat less intense, tanking of the market.   They have that little 1929-buffer in place, where they can suspend trading in the middle of a day, if things start to get out of hand, and I’ve got a sawbuck that says we’ll see that used, in the not-too-distant future.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The republican congers are not nearly as sanguine about letting bush play out the string as you seem to believe, eCAHN.   They’re watching the same things we’re watching, and if push comes to shove in Iraq, and if oil busts $100 ppb and stays there,  the rats leaving the ship and heading for shore will look like the story of lemmings, only in reverse.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;George Bush is MUCH closer to the point of having more value to the GOP as a sacrificial pig, than as a retiring president, than you think.  And that “value” is moving toward the barbecue side, with every passing day.:o)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; If, by mid-summer, the GOP congers are looking at numbers showing a democrat with a 20 point lead, and growing, and with coattails a mile long, they’ll invite the MSM over to the white house lawn for the hog-butchering, in the effort to keep some vestige of power after the election.&lt;br /&gt;
    And we dems will HAVE that 20 point lead, if not a bigger one, unless we’re jackasses enough to nominate Clinton, in which case the polls will be showing another cliff-hanger for the republicans to steal outright, or to throw to the Supremes, for them to rubber-stamp a GOP win, again.&lt;br /&gt;
    And those close polls will kill any chance we have of seeing, first, Cheyney retire for “health” reasons, Lugar appointed, and then, the real deal of the joy of watching the elephant herd roust bush back to the ranch, and along with the rest of his family, into political oblivion.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You read it here first.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eCAHN; not a dream a’tall.   If you think that 6 months from now we’re going to be sailing right along in this election with about the same level of intensity and the same “unity”, and the same level of nervousness from the voters, that we have now, then I have that oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you.  </p>
<p>Boys and girls, we aint seen nuthin’ yet.</p>
<p>I think most of us would agree that the clusterfuck in Iraq is hanging by the slim thread(s) of those bribes to the Sunnis and by the “truce” from and between the Shiite factions (about 90 killed in the past 3 days in intramural fighting in the south, mostly around Karbala.)</p>
<p>Also, sometime in late June or early July that referendum on Kirkuk is scheduled to rear it’s ugly head again, and this time, the price-point to bush for the Kurds postponing it another 6 months to likely put it on the democrats watch, is going to be astronomical.  </p>
<p>   The Kurds know perfectly well that they have bush’s nads in the vise, and they don’t give a tinker’s damn about “Greater Iraq”.   They postponed the referendum this time because they know that by mid-summer that bargaining chip will be 24K gold, Bro. :o) </p>
<p>This morning, the NYSE would have preferred to not open at all, rather than risk the news of another, if somewhat less intense, tanking of the market.   They have that little 1929-buffer in place, where they can suspend trading in the middle of a day, if things start to get out of hand, and I’ve got a sawbuck that says we’ll see that used, in the not-too-distant future.</p>
<p>The republican congers are not nearly as sanguine about letting bush play out the string as you seem to believe, eCAHN.   They’re watching the same things we’re watching, and if push comes to shove in Iraq, and if oil busts $100 ppb and stays there,  the rats leaving the ship and heading for shore will look like the story of lemmings, only in reverse.</p>
<p>George Bush is MUCH closer to the point of having more value to the GOP as a sacrificial pig, than as a retiring president, than you think.  And that “value” is moving toward the barbecue side, with every passing day.:o)</p>
<p> If, by mid-summer, the GOP congers are looking at numbers showing a democrat with a 20 point lead, and growing, and with coattails a mile long, they’ll invite the MSM over to the white house lawn for the hog-butchering, in the effort to keep some vestige of power after the election.<br />
    And we dems will HAVE that 20 point lead, if not a bigger one, unless we’re jackasses enough to nominate Clinton, in which case the polls will be showing another cliff-hanger for the republicans to steal outright, or to throw to the Supremes, for them to rubber-stamp a GOP win, again.<br />
    And those close polls will kill any chance we have of seeing, first, Cheyney retire for “health” reasons, Lugar appointed, and then, the real deal of the joy of watching the elephant herd roust bush back to the ranch, and along with the rest of his family, into political oblivion.</p>
<p>You read it here first.</p>
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		<title>By: nomolos</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220155</link>
		<dc:creator>nomolos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/23/economic-stimulus-for-whom/#comment-1220155</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;yes, I believe we need to be rewarded for our hard work, my friends, my family and everyone I know work harder when they are given reward&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Over the years a number of us socialists traded goods for work, food for firewood etc.  Worked fine but it sure did piss off the IRS&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>yes, I believe we need to be rewarded for our hard work, my friends, my family and everyone I know work harder when they are given reward</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Over the years a number of us socialists traded goods for work, food for firewood etc.  Worked fine but it sure did piss off the IRS</p>
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