Login HereUpdate: Emptywheel -- "[A]ny immunity is immunity for those who decided it was a swell idea to illegally wiretap Americans. And that list of people begins with Dick Cheney."
It's looking like the FISA battle could start as early as tonight, but Senate staff are preparing for tomorrow. Which means Chris Dodd will start his filibuster, and both of you will have plenty of time to get back to Capital Hill to help.
Look, Senators. It's not like nobody cares -- polling shows that voters overwhelmingly oppose immunity for telecom companies (PDF), and Credo's action to contact your respective campaigns took down the Obama email servers.
Your actions last time this came up were really unimpressive. Senator Obama gave a supporting statement but did one of his patented vote skips, and Senator Clinton just ignored the entire episode. Considering that you, Senator Clinton, are the number one Senate recipient of telecom donations, the fact that you have been a day late and a dollar short on this issue does not augur well for your claims at Yearly Kos that you will not be influenced by your campaign contributors (YouTube).
When Chris Dodd goes forward with his filibuster (and he will), you'll probably have 30-60 hours to get back to DC. That gives you plenty of time. Events get cancelled all the time -- there is no excuse not to be in Washington DC for this event, and to do so is to avoid leadership.
Glenn Greenwald quotes your Fearless Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on FISA, and please consider it Exhibit A as to why the public hates Democrats in Congress and thinks they're completely useless:
I]f people think they are going to talk this to death, we are going to be in here all night. This is not something we are going to have a silent filibuster on. If someone wants to filibuster this bill, they are going to do it in the openness of the Senate.
As Glenn notes:
That is what Democrats have been urging Reid to do to the filibustering Republicans all year -- in order to dramatize their obstructionism -- but he has refused to make them actually filibuster anything, generously agreeing instead that every bill requires 60 votes. Instead, he reserves such punishment only for the members of his own caucus trying to take a stand for the rule of law and the Constitution, those who are trying finally to bring some accountability to this administration.
(Read the disgusting exchange between Reid and McConnell in Glenn's article for a stomach churning example of how to make the public loathe you. Pretty textbook stuff.)
Look, you two came back for the farm bill. Our readers are already stocking up on popcorn, and once Dodd takes to the floor we'll be watching things on CSPAN round the clock until it finishes. I think people will notice if you try to do a Pasadena on this one again, and all of the rhetoric you have both been spouting about "change" and standing up to the Bush Administration will be reduced to instant horseshit.
Please get back to DC and do your jobs.
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Hi Jane!
Hiya everyone. Just had lunch with Prairie Sunshine. Our own little FDL meetup. Brrr…
Biden too!
Does Dodd actually have to perform a filibuster? Reid lets Republics just phone it in.
Sorta OT - what rights, as a former Senator, does John Edwards have on the floor of the Senate while this is being fought out?
Very Well Said, Jane. Thanks for all you do. I stand amoung many (once proud) Democrats who feel your pain. Its high time to demonstrate some leadership, instead of talking about it.
I don’t think Edwards is getting our emails, letters, phone calls and faxes. He isn’t encouraging them to get back to Washington to help Dodd. Instead he is berating them for not staying in South Carolina.
Edwards says “Clinton Left! Won’t Ever Return to South Carolina!”
Maybe John (and Hillary and Obama) should realize there’s something more important than political campaigns at times.
I just sent a note to Senator Reid. He swore an oath to the Constitution of the United States.
I told him that if he goes forth with this, oath breaker I call him and Oath Breaker he will be known as forever.
A little hyperbole but sometimes that is needed.
I shant hold my breath on being listened to however.
Does Dodd actually have to perform a filibuster? Reid lets Republics just phone it in.
If Dodd actually does it, he’s gonna make Bend-Over Harry look mighty bad…
As I understand it, there are several amendments wtill to be voted on with regard to this bill - will Dodd filibuster all, some, or just one of them?
Anybody know the logistics of what is to come?
Normally former Senators are allowed on the floor but my understanding of the rules is they are not allowed to lobby for specific legislation.
I may be in error on this however and misunderstand the rule.
Reid says he’s gonna make Dodd actually filibuster, whereas with republicans, he’s let them just say they will filibuster. Whose side is Reid on?
For Harry:
R filibuster = okay, let’s just agree to 60 votes so we can all get along
D filibuster = you must do this in the openness of the Senate
R hold = hold
D hold = Mr. President, I bring you the Senate Intelligence Committee version of the FISA renewal
Okay, I have to ask. How did you get Lindsay Graham to spend some of his advertising dollars here? Whoever authorized that payment is an idiot.
Wow. Dow is up 200.
I don’t think any lobbyist (former Senator or not) can come onto the floor during a debate. He could go up to Washington and meet with former colleagues outside the floor and maybe arrange a speech on the steps of Congress.
But I’m not even certain that Edwards is even opposed to the FISA Reform Act. Has he ever made a speech opposing it? Why do we assume that he’s an ally here?
Will Harry attempt to limit the filibuster time as he was prepared to do last month.. Which in and of itself would have killed everything but the dramatic effect of a filibuster.
Dodd has vowed to filibuster each and every amendment presented.
As far as making Harry look bad, them’s the breaks. He can’t make Harry look any worse than Harry makes himself look by his own actions (or lack of them).
Did you see Christy’s response to this at the end of last thread?
Hi folks…
Well I made those calls re: FISA and I would say maybe it’s just me but I feel that Sen. Dodd’s office is good and ready for a fight….
Pass that popcorn….
Also, by the way, I tried to contact HRC but her line was too busy so I left a message at her website….
When there’s a will there’s a way….
And if California slides into the ocean
Like the mystics and statistics say it will
I predict this motel will be standing until I pay my bill
And I also predict neither one will show.
My favorite Warren tune…
I think you’re a good predictor
Dick Cheney controls Harry Reid!
I think I’m going to send Chris Dodd my town phone book to read on the floor of the Senate. I’ll scream when he gets to my name. Hey, we should make this fun as we watch some Senators scream, “But Davos! We’ve got to leave! It’s way more important than American’s rights!!!!!!”. Would love to witness that.
Republican Majority Leader Harry Reid (via Greenwald) had this to say about the Intel version of the FISA bill:
This is very reminiscent of the language he used on the Military Commissions Act back when he was Republican Minority Leader:
Harry is just being Harry. Lieberman must be so proud.
Go Jane!
Go Patriots!
Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn’t take Cheney that much to influence Reid….
I’m sorry but sometimes he comes off as an easy date…
Leadership Now!
Wow! The stock market is going great today! Even Twisted Sister’s lead singer was just on the floor of the NYSE happy as a clam at high tide.
The stock market is a hoax, isn’t it? Just one more way to control the masses. Seems so.
To me - this seems very simple.
The FISA Court (supposedly) ruled that overseas-to-overseas calls were getting switched through U.S. lines, and that they were of the opinion that warrants were thus necessary. If that is in fact true - it should be fixed, and could, damned easily, *be* fixed. So - fix that, and let the rest of the crap just fade away.
The rest of this garbage is just a sop to the paymasters - on both sides.
I have to apologize regarding a statement I made above. It’s clear that Edwards didn’t support the August “fix” of the FISA law, and probably wouldn’t support the FISA Reform Act currently before Congress. But he hasn’t made this a focus of his campaign.
I found this snippet of a response on YouTube. Edwards on August 2007 FISA Extension
Just sent my email to Edwards, and I wanted to share:
(I also called Webb, who according to his staffer is still opposed to immunity, but hasn’t yet decided what he’ll do about the filibuster.)
Teddy, you should say that again.
The Democrats (in government) like war, want war, and could give a flying rat’s behind about our rights in this country, so therefore, I will be voting for Dennis Kucinich in Maine’s caucus as my first vote, “uncommitted” as my 2nd vote, and then once the Democrats of this country pick one of the top More Of The Same Democrats, I’m leaving the party by unenrolling and will wander aimlessly until I see a 180 degree turn around in the Democrats.
The Dow is the most visible economic indicator. Not the best, mind you, just the most visible. That is why Bush and Paulson looked so bad at the presser yesterday - their last refuge was predicted to drop like a rock. If the Dow does not continue to fall, look for increased resistance to any stimulus package from the R’s.
Makes one wonder.
Emailed Edwards, called Voinovich and Sherrod Brown.
No reply from Edwards (yet).
Voinovich’s office staff stalls, “will pass on message.”
Sherrod Brown = satisfaction. He’s “agaist retroactive immunity and basket warrants.”
Great tone. Thanks Redshift
Down load a copy of the Congressional Researcg Service..Report for Congress on “Filibusters and cloture in then Senate” UPDATED MARCH 28, 2003..RL30360
A lot of the “stuff” that I read on line about “holds” and filibusters is not reality and just gets people upset…
I e-mailed Edwards yesterday. I kept it short and sweet asking for leadership on FISA.
The problem is…the Bush Regime doesn’t want to use warrants. “Too hahd”. They want to do illegal wiretappnig of peaceniks and others who have nothing to do with terrorism and they don’t want a paper trail. See?
Harry Reid (D - Expedia)
What I’m wondering aside from FISA is there any possibility that a foreign government or a foreign corporation ability to spy on ordinary citizens with impunity on behalf of our government has been adequately addressed?
I’ve been getting this creepy X-files kind of feeling lately, that the fix is in, humanity’s been sold to the reptile people, and there’s just a few clueless goofs like us still trying to figure out who done it, and what kind of final, defiant end-game we play on the way to getting asssimilated.
Pass the popcorn.
I’d be looking more at domestic corporations…
Mildly interesting Exchange
I called Dodd’s office to determine whether Sen. Dodd intends to filibuster (YES) and whether Reid has ever given Dodd an answer as to why Reid chooses to ignore Dodd’s hold (NO).
Called Reid’s office w/ question on why Reid is ignoring Dodd’s hold. I’m referred to an online statment from Reid and cut off. Reid’s statement does NOT address the question.
Called Reid’s office back. I’m told “during the Dec. 14th debate, Sen’s. Reid and Dodd AGREED debate would continue in January, so Reid is NOT ignoring a Dodd hold.”
I called Dodd’s office, and relayed this info. Somewhat surprised, I was, by the response. Something to the effect of, (paraphrasing)”No, we did not know Reid’s office was stating that as their position, thank you very very much for calling, I will see that Sen. Dodd receives this information as soon as I can.”
I always figured aliens would hack us b4 first contact. *g
Once again the Bush Administration is trying to conflate a big smoke screen with their real objective. As you note, Jane, this is about CYA for BushCo, starting with Chee-knee and working down thru all the little minions in the White House.
One way or another, they’ll get off the hook, but they damned well need to be held to the account of history via a Bush pardon. Not the compliance of weaselly Senators.
This issue is too big. This issue is too important. This is the bedrock of the country.
ABC’s Grandpa Charlie declared all the citizens of North Dakota their Persons of the Week last week…perhaps they can send over the complete list for Chris Dodd’s reading….. just a change of pace from phone books.
Now I’m getting that warm and fuzzy feeling again knowing there’s all kinds of possibilities here…
geesh…
“…all of the rhetoric you have both been spouting about “change” and standing up to the Bush Administration will be reduced to instant horseshit.”
In all fairness, it’s been horseshit for over a year now.
No…got the number. I looked but didn’t see anthing. Is she using an alias?
As Sgt. Schultz would say “Velly Interesting!” Odd that a constituent is involved in negotiations between two Senators ;-)
Dick Cheney controls Harry Reid!!
A few rounds of the constitution and bill of rights would be apropos too.
This item is a major resource for the GOP, they still get solid donations from telecomms.
Punting it at least prevents the rate spikes they want to accompany any immunity.
Idealogical consistency here, let’s get some other business going and punt this item past the calendar date. Doubtful either side does it, for the purpose of money making.
If he were actively working to subvert Dodd’s hold, he wouldn’t be ignoring it, would he?
This was MY message to Senator Edwards:
Dear Senator Edwards:
I know you have no direct way to influence the pending FISA legislation. However, you might consider the following “talking point.” Your fellow contenders—who DO have direct influence via their vote—should either present themselves on the Senate floor to work for the rule of law and “we the people” or, by their absence, show their alignment with Big Business. You continually state that you do not accept lobbyist money, and therefore are not influenced by the corporations those lobbyists represent. Point to the fact that actions speak louder than words . . . and if their actions so warrant, demonstrate that a pro-industry vote . . . or an absence, places them clearly in the camp of Big Business.
Just a suggestion . . .
You aren’t the only one. That’s a pretty good synopsis.
The front runner should be the person asked to do this. Howard Dean can on the way out, he’s paid a political price for it once already, no need to harm a good mid tier candidate on this so let Howard continue this item.
OT
Next NYC area FDL meetup is this Friday, January 25, 6pm, Parnell’s Pub, 53rd Street & First Ave, reservation under CAHN. Come one, come all.
(thanks Spacefish for your comment. If it is an indicator, it’s an unrealistic one in my opinion.)
LS, when I saw the lead singer of Twisted Sister a few minutes ago come out onto the floor and giving his heavy metal tongue & Satan finger jestures, my first thought was, “Huh. I bet there’s a guy in an office somewhere manipulating the numbers electronically and it’s not really reflecting the real trading that’s going on and to show his “ta-dah!!!” moment, I bet he said, “Hey you! Yeah you! Twisted Sister! Go down on the floor and show the American people that even YOU are happy with the economy!”.
LOL
Wow.
If I lived in N.Y. City I’d be down at Rockefeller Center carrying a sign that says, “Heith Ledger is dead and our Constitution is dying,” and position myself in front of every camera there. Matt Lauer would get sick of seeing my face.
I was mistaken, it was two threads back but I think this was in response to you
I think that Senator Biden is definitely one to pressure on this. He’s not only now OFF the Campaign trail, but he also can use all his alloted speaking time up with no problem ;-)
Sounds like good emanations emerging from Leahy’s office.
I feel like calling Harry Reid’s office and screaming at one of his interns. Anyone else having this same feeling?
lol @ can use all his alloted speaking time up with no problem
I give up on them both. Obama is wacked, Hillary is smart and is certainly capable. But John Edwards makes sense damn it. The other two do not. They are still talking to republicans when they make speeches. Who in the hell cares about republicans? They are the ones that stole all the money, outed our intelligence community, waging a war so their king saud can repay them later? I would never trust people that have supported this criminal enterprise again.
I don’t want to hear another nice thing about any republican since Teddy Roosevelt at this point. They have raped our country and are not nearly satisfied. They don’t know what they want, only that they want “more”.
FYI, Dee Snider is the Twisted Sister guy. But, yeah twisted sister.
Any clue as to who you were speaking with in Reid’s office on this call?
Thanks.
It could end up like One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. Because we know too much and because we stood up against the Pigs, we’ll end up being forced to have a lobotomy like McMurphy.
Before thinking Leahy is on our side in the FISA fight, you might take a look at Greenwald’s most recent.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g.....index.html
Thanks. I couldn’t remember his name for the life of me. ;-)
Di Fi on the Senate floor (cspan2) rewriting everything from her oath of office to the constitution itself. She is a **** fascist through and through.
We’re safe for a while.
First we’d need to be insured.
I think if you’ve retired from the Senate to a highly paid lobbying job, and it’s a Republican administration, then just “come on down.”
If the adults are in charge, don’t know.
Speaking of, here’s an excerpt from the email from Senator Feinstein I received yesterday:
Jane:
I sent you email…
Where is Russ Feingold in all of this? All it takes to throw sand in the gears is for one Senator to notify Reid that he will object to a unanimous consent. That is it..that is a “hold”. There aren’t the votes available to stop the legislation but a few Senators with real guts can make it very painful. Unfortunately the pain for the Senator/Senators who are gumming up the works is even worse. That is the bottom line.
thanks for the CSPAN 2 head’s up
Harry Reid’s an “adult in charge?” since when?
How could Feinstien be more supportive of the Unitary Executive?
No, no, I didn’t mean to imply that Harry Reid was an adult. I meant [should have said] “if/when we ever get any adults in charge . . . “
Restore? How about prosecuting the violators and allowing the current immunity/continuance expire? Di Fi, just walk away, have a cocktail, and let the courts do their job.
I found it. I stand by my comments and said so on that thread. Edwards should not be taunting Hillary about leaving the campaign trail in South Carolina. WE WANT CLINTON IN WASHINGTON. In fact I found his comments adolescent. Instead of demanding that Hillary stay in South Carolina he should be telling her and Obama to get back to Washington, and on the Senate Floor supporting Dodd.
I think all three of the candidates are on the campaign trail during this critical debate. Obama remains, like Edwards, in South Carolina…Hillary I think came out to California to receive the endorsement of the Unite Farmworkers Union.
Here’s what I think. They should all suspend their campaigning and the two sitting Senators should return to Washington to support Dodd. Edwards could offer it first, if he chose to.
http://blog.johnedwards.com/section/Diary
This is Johns blog. I do know the staffers read it.
OfT: Bush planning California visit next week
Maybe Harry will find it expedient to bring back TIPS. Total Information Protocol for Snitching (on your neighbor).
Radiohead: No Surprises
Are we to believe when the Bush Regime asked AT&T and Verizon to hand over and/or gather every phone call so they could listen and interpret without a warrant, these telecom companies had no idea they were breaking the law right along with the Regime?
Give me a break!
How do we get started on removing Reid from the leadership? Can we do it? Win or lose this particular battle, we must get rid of him.
The Son of a Gun is as radioactive as the nookyular devices that make him giddy with anticipation.
YES I at this juncture I might just write in Dodd’s name rather than vote for either Obama or Clinton. I can assure the if they skip my vote will not be for either one and I will campaign against them!
Can a large hook be used like on the Gong Show?
Get rid of reid before or after hoyer.
I think I’ve written too many antagonistic emails to Feinstein’s staff to get any more emails like this. It’s that last stipulation that offers a universal out. Inasmuch as the FISA Court can be ignored if the Attorney General and Director of National Intelligence both sign off on a waiver…ANY telecomm would be BOTH meeting the legal requirements AND under the belief they were doing so if the received a request.
Feinstein’s Amendment is utterly useless and only provides HER with cover suggesting she has done something.
If you stripped away the waiver on the mandatory FISA warrants this might mean something. But with that waiver it allows everything short of a rogue operation.
Well, Dodd now has a long list of Bush lies to read out on the floor of the Senate.
Because if this goes through, it’d be better to demand JoeHo’s expulsion from the Dem Senate Carcase, turn it into a 50-50 Senate on a rules vote with McConnell taking over, and work from that side. Actually, let’s just have them take turns, so we get to see how the filibuster works differently depending upon who’s majority leader.
Are Hillary and Obama still Senators?
Or are they on paid vacation
Exactly.
Sine the enactment of FISA, the telecoms have been staffed by hundreds, thousands of lawyers whose job is to evaluate the validity (legality) of government warrants. To suggest that ANY of the telecoms acted in good faith is ludicrous.
Thsy know the law.
Jane some of my post did not show up, Great article and thanks for the HU on fisa will be watching c-span.
C-span2 Sen Feinstein…
Did I miss something but wasn’t the immunity part of this bill kind of a passing remark at the end of her speech?…
That is nothing but a smokescreen (cya). Her amendment will need 60 votes, and she knows she won’t get it, her amendment is nothing but trying to asuage the rabble (the American people).
What she’s really doing is protecting that 5 million dollars that ATT gave to the CDP - I think it was in 2006.
PS cinnamonape did you see my reply to you on Saturday? (forget which thread)
Good point. I’ll post my letter there, too.
I put yesterday’s thread up there.