Why are even the talking heads at CNBC getting flustered over the talk of "recession?" Because, for one thing, the advertising dollars are starting to dry up. All those "richflation" want-not-need goodies that have been sprinkled with abandon across the pages of fashionista mags and cable networks over the last few years? Not so necessary, it seems. Via Brandweek:
…As talk of a recession gathers steam, luxury brands have posted some fairly poor financial results. In the past few weeks, reported concerns about profits have marred the performance of such brands as Burberry, Tiffany, Coach and Polo Ralph Lauren. Some of those brands have already cut their ad spends….
Yet the fact that these consumers’ affluence depends both on holding down jobs and on the equity present in their homes puts them—and the brands that cater to them—at the mercy of economic forces in ways that a consumer like, say, Warren Buffett, would not be. "The brands that you’re seeing now reporting downturns are those who really appealed to that mass-affluent audience," Danziger said.
Those same ripples are likely to be felt on the marketing front, as well. "One of the first areas [where] brands will cut back will be in their advertising and marketing dollars," Cohen said. Indeed, some of that might already be happening. Burberry’s ad spend from January through November 2007 dropped 8.6% to $11.2 million versus the prior 11-month period, per Nielsen Monitor-Plus. Similarly, Neiman Marcus cut its pend by about 9% to $32.7 million, and Saks Fifth Avenue pared its spend 3% to $42.5 million….
…"We’ve never ever focused on tourism marketing before," said Kimberly Grabel, Saks’ vp-marketing. "While we don’t think we need to spend a lot on that, it is something that we’re looking at more seriously now."
Could be a useful strategery, but for that whole shackle shopping Icelandic tourists fiasco last December. But at least retailers still have Condi’s platinum Amex for emergencies, I suppose. (In case of hurricanes, send shoes.) What has been propping up this whole richflation bubble? In a phrase, "irrational exuberance," to borrow from Mr. Andrea Mitchell.
But trading up was always a fragile phenomenon. It rested, in large part, on consumer psychology — a feeling of wealth derived from soaring home values and the steady growth of real income, that is, income adjusted for inflation.
Today, any growth in real income is all but canceled out in consumers’ minds by falling home prices and rising energy costs.
Where greed and reality intersect is the come to Jesus moment for the Bush economy. And if the richflation indicators are the leading edge of the recessionary wedge, reality may be awfully painful for a whole lot of folks. For an awfully long time to come. Perusing Calculated Risk today is a painful read — people who make the decision to walk away from their vast mortagage payment aren’t the sort of folks who will be buying more Jimmy Choos any time soon, now are they?
But the people who are going to be feeling the pinch most painfully? They are the folks who weren’t buying the so-called mid-level luxury brands to begin with…because they were too busy trying to scrape together the change to buy their groceries and pay their skyrocketing utilty and medication bills. Hello, America? This is your wake-up call…




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if only there were someplace to shop for T-shirts online….
Most of the ads on Tweety, KO and the rest at MSNBC are those horrible “scooter store”, “it pays for final and any other expenses” frickin rip-off insurance, and Pat Boone telling these poor old folks what a swell idea a reverse mortgage is.
From Calculated Risk:
“That was up by 12.4 percent from 72,571 the previous quarter, and up 114.6 percent from 37,994 for fourth-quarter 2006, according to DataQuick Information Systems.”
What happened in 2006 that caused the sudden upsurge?
I hate that Pat Boone reverse mortgage ad. Blergh…
(That and the singing Viagra ad to the tune of Viva Las Vegas. Double blergh.)
Was that when a lot of the balloon mortgage provisions started kicking in for a lot of the “no money down” folks? I seem to remember that kicking in around then. Anyone remember for sure (before I tra la off to start looking it up to be positive)?
LOL. Was this comment made as an opening for me to say how much I HATE these particular tee-shirt ads? Not the teeshirts, just the ads. No? Ok, sorry.
I’ve met several people in the past three months that are facing foreclosure or know someone who is. And this is obviously a subject that many are loathe to discuss. I know of a couple of people who walked away from large deposits on condos. (One millionaire left $200K on the table to walk away from a deal. The condo value had plummeted more than that amount. He felt that it was finanially smarter to leave the deal – in consideration of the huge depreciation in value, maintenance fees and property taxes.)
The Bush Brush Ranch has plenty of space for a modern Hooverville. It’s the least BUsh can do. Actually, it’s probably the only thing he can do, given his skill set.
Xin Loi GI.
For me it’s the nasal voice J Wentworth “Do you need cash na-ow?”
If housing values are going down, no one in their right mind will give anyone a reverse mortgage because there’ll be no guarantee that the value of the property will stay the same.
I was thinking about Hooterville.
Tanta has a picture of the Mortgage Pig at the Federal Reserve’s emergency rate cut meeting.
http://calculatedrisk.blogspot…..nutes.html
It is interesting that it hit so many people at the same time. Must have been due to really high interest rates for some reason, or else it has to do with the timing of when the mortgages were originated and would balloon all at the same time…hmmmm….I’m totally financially ignorant, but it just seems weird.
The “mass-affluent” audience: borrowing no more against its shrinking home equity.
Unfortunately those ads prey on folks who may no be quite up to par on what’s what.
Okay, what do you know that’s bad about reverse mortgages. I ask because I have some friends that have done reverse mortgages, and they seemed to have worked out fine for them. I considered doing a reverse mortgage myself, but apparently you need more than 50% equity to actual accomplish one. Seems they use your life expectancy as 100 years old when they do your calculation, regardless that you’re sick already with a debilitating disease.
The Real Housewives of Orange County must be cryin’ in their champagne as the hangover sets in.
A friend just came back from Arizona–one of many major developments is over 50% in foreclosure or unsold. Values less than 50% of a year ago.
The chickens has come home to roost.
It’s not that they cannot be good for folks, it’s that the same predators who screw people with other flim flams are out there waiting to pounce.
I have relatives who are dealing with that very issue with a parent at the moment. This elderly lady gets more mail from people requesting “donations” and offers for things she neither needs nor can afford. She’s on that downhill slide toward dementia, and for several months had been sending off checks to all of them before her family realized her food and medical money was going out the door to all of these “desperately needy” in her mind groups.
Elderly folks are far too often targets of predatory folks who will not take “no donation” for an answer. Lots of unscrupulous idgets out there, I’m afraid…
If you read bonddad blog he has a chart of ARM rate adjustments. It will peak in March
economic tumulus package
If one is minding one’s own business, scrolling innocently through the brilliant and pithy FDL posts and stops at the “right” place so that you see only from her waist down, it looks like she is peeing. Bleck.
I wished to hell Nutri System would go broke and cut their ad spend by 2000%. I have been sick of being bombed with those ads for two years.
They will adjust the values and loan amounts accordingly. Its a racket. There are stipulations in some contracts that require the (elderly) homeowner to maintain occupancy and that require stringent (overzealous) maintenance. If the old boy or girl gets sick and goes to a hospital or nursing home, the bastids take the house. They ride their asses about painting and upkeep to drive ‘em insane.
My brother and his wife are losing their house. I’ll probably be going down there sometime this Spring, to pick up some items they won’t be able to take with them.
I only found out recently that they’d taken an ARM to buy the place. If my sister-in-law didn’t have champagne tastes on a beer budget, they could have bought a house in a moderately priced neighborhood, and would have had a 30 year fixed mortgage. Instead,she insisted on a fancy townhouse in a pricy (golf course) neighborhood. Just the neighborhood association fees were enough to make me queasy.
It’s not an area where one full-time and one part-time income are going to cover that type of lifestyle.
Quick+dirty, drive-by guess: the beginning of the housing bust, which would have started making refinances harder for those who maxed out borrowing.
Later.
Hi Christy -
It’s the big bad “R” word that Bushco lied about to the American people. Remember how he would say the economy was strong and the proof was the high number of “home Owners”? I always knew that you didn’t OWN the house until your last mortgage payment was paid. Until then, the bank or S&L owned it.
It’s like calling Michigan a one recession state. Ha! How about recession classes, like the middle and lower working classes falling into recession for years now?
Yes, we’ve been in recession for years and it is tumbling into the nasty forbidden never to be spoken again “D” word. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I watch the people around me living in a depressed economy struggling for basic food and shelter (rental).
Enough word play and lies. Call it what it is. I guess that’s up to us to tell the truth.
time to hunker down.
The evan churches are just as bad. I was in a doctor’s waiting room one day listening to a woman in her 70s telling the man next to her how excited she was. She had sent a donation to Pat Robertson and he had sent her this cross – it was a cheap thing and she thought it was wonderful because he was going to pray for her. It made my heart hurt.
Even I never thought the GOP/corporate looting could so devastate America that today’s financial news reads like a a mid-80’s screed on over-consumption from the EarthFirst! Journal.
Heck, all those contributions to the tree-sitters could have gone to the GOP – they’re doing way more to reduce consumption then EF! could have done.
Of course, as Christy points out the Goopers and their owners are shutting down demand at the literal cost of health and homes for the many.
Wonder how long US voters will keep paying to keep the Goopers and their owners safe and comfy?
Hubby will be sorely disappointed if we stop getting 5 Victoria’s Secret catalogs per week.
Hopefully not under a bridge.
Thassit, Christy. :o)
God forbid that the american people should finally begin to show a little common sense and become nervous about the figurative sight of George Bush standing on the banks of the Tigris River and smirking that wonderful smirk, while he urinates a substantial part of the U.S. Treasury into the flow. :o)
My father-in-law got hammered constantly, especially by Veterans groups. Once those scumbags get your address it’s curtains. Every time we would go to see him he would give me “patriotic” shit they sent him after he sent money. Man, it was so hard to just accept the stuff and say thanks. . .
My mom bought me a vegetable chopper for three installments of $40.00. I’m gonna have to take away her teevee, if she keeps it up.
The financial gurus said this morning that what happened today on the markets is just “catch up” from the weekend and the holiday; they said that what happens tomorrow is what is more important (not to mention what happens overseas tonight).
QuakerGirl @30: We call our monthly mortgage payment our ‘rent.’ We know exactly who holds “the deed to our ranch.” I will be so glad when we make that final payment!
Many of these mortgages were made to people who would not qualify for a conventional conforming or nonconforming loan. Others were made to people who cash-out refinanced. In either case, people either believed or were told that they could always refinance before the baloon was due or the interest rate reset. People also tend to believe that property values only rise. Both turned out to not be true.
This is part of Bush’s legacy.
But please don’t take away those Head-On ads. At least not until they’ve run a few for their jock itch cure.
OT: IMHO this is a very big deal. Per Glenn Greenwald:
This is not only about stopping FISA immunity. It’s also about insisting that our candidates establish their progressive leadership credentials. They need to know that every liberal’s eyes will be on them in this FISA battle. And those liberals will be making decisions about how to vote on Super Tuesday. (And Matt Stoller has made a pretty good case that offending liberals with his Reagan hagiography cost Obama a win in Nevada. See http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3329 )
About how we are going to have to buy fruits and vegetables soon….
installments.
I plan on camping out in the bags under Fred Thompson’s eyes if I get tossed out of my home.
-G
Hopin’ and a prayin’ and a wishin’ – they are. Day by day. They are crapping their britches.
“time to hunker down.” pun
“Hopefully not under a bridge.” stevear
under a bridge where all those vets aren’t.
I went through this with my Mom as she slid into dementia when she turned 90. She was an accountant and in her final years fell prey to scam after scam. My sister and I set up her account so it had to have our signature just to protect her. It was an ongoing battle. We reported them. Nothing ever came of it.
Unfortunately, many elderly people outlive their children and are alone. It is all too common.
That happened to my mom. She bought 500 lightbulbs from some predator.
When times get tough people make poor decisions and the vipers come out of the bushes to prey on the weak and vulnerable.
Hopefull we’ll have John McCain going to the gates of hell to fight Bin Laden though.
-G
stop unsolicited junk mail for a small fee: http://www.greendimes.com
it works.
The only actual case I know about, involving my daughter-in-law’s grandfather, the culprits were televangelists. He was sending checks to one of the purple-haired ladies.
Republics have a problem in making such pronouncements about bin Laden. Their leader, George W. Bush, promised to get him “Dead or Alive”. He was lying, of course. Since McCain is a Republic, as well as a Bush hugger, we should assume that he also is lying.
btw, the “lipstick on the pig” pix just cracked me up. *g* Seemed oh so appropriate for the Republican Recession, don’t you think?
I can’t believe America’s only just now crackin’ open that first eyelid.
The College Young Republicans ran senior scams
http://atheism.about.com/b/200…..tizens.htm
I wonder if CNBC will cancel their High Net Worth Show. Only wannabes must watch it. I think the very wealthy are else where
A very nasty recession is just about at hand. And the big picture is, like it or not, that this is a bipartisan issue to solve. The Republicans through their capacity for infinite greed have brought this coming misery on. Vote Democratic next November, no matter the candidate’s name. It may just be our children’s last chance.
Bank of America profits down by 95% !!
I imagine that lay-offs will follow. Bread lines, anyone?
I think most of America has been paying attention. But the big ad dollar items kept rolling out of the stores, and thus big media outlets didn’t notice the drop in their revenues so much. But with big ticket advertising dollars drying up? Suddenly Larry Kudlow’s salary looks a little more precarious, and he sits up and takes notice when he can’t get that preferred chef’s table at Daniel. Eh?
I’ve done my insurance via AARP for a number of years, and I have never heard a peep of static back from any number of insurance claims.
A reverse mortgage via AARP might offer the elderly better protections than say one from Jam & Cheatom Insurance Inc.
Just saying
Some reporter should find Cheney’s secret bat lair and ask him if he still believes that “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter”.
It was never “morning in America”. But it is ‘children in America!’. If we want it to be.
From what I’ve heard on this morning’s news, the layoffs have already begun. I think I’ll talk to the family about starting our own garden this Spring. We may need it…
The tragedy of the Bush legacy is that the people pay with their lives. He and his ilk will never feel pain. A ghost writer will write a myth about the family and it will be considered just as factual as any criticism of his administration.
But the words in blogs will be quite a read for historians and will stand as truth to the Bush legacy.
Making ends meet, for most folks has become the only game in town.
The economy is fine until the bottom tier wealthy feel it.
Of cours, by then, it’s in the shitter.
That time would be his week.
Bread lines full of citizens greatful that gays cannot marry.
I have done a little kitchen garden just about every year that I’ve been able to plant. Three or four tomato plants, some peppers, lettuce, herbs, cucumbers and a zucchini or two. Nothing huge, and I intersperse the veggies among my flowers because our yard isn’t that large. And we get more than enough for us and some to give out to neighbors as well…
Perhaps we ought to think in terms of “Victory Garden”. I’m being serious here!
Did the economy ever actually recover from the post 9/11 recession? I don’t think so.
Yep. And the wingers will still believe that when they are on the street with a tin cup.
anecdotal, but I see more for-sale signs around the subdivison neighborhood here where I often walk the dog (good sidewalks, bad ankle) another one here, another one there, they’re starting to add up.
Maybe part of the Bush legacy will be the end of the Bush dynasty. It should be the end of the Repulbic Party, but the Democratic leadership will prevent that from happening.
Where’s Selise?
Seriously encourage anyone thinking about doing something small to check out Square Foot Gardening. Great book, easy tips, and it works.
It takes so little to reap so much from the earth. The earth is truly generous. It’s amazing how abundant two tomato plants are. I am going to try pot gardening this year. (No not that kind of pot – in a pot).
just make sure you don’t run afoul of Monsanto.
I don’t think most people realize how serious an economic depression would be these days. I am not here just speaking of day to day economic survival, but it would, in my view start a world war.
We’ve done some container gardening, ususally cherry tomato plants, and last year an experiment (successful) with Alpine strawberries. Household is Mom, me and my sister. I’ve been more into flowers than veggies — good to know it doesn’t take much room.
Mom grew up during the Depression and my Grandfather had a big garden. Good thing I enjoy working with plants!
sorry for the OT: ap reporting actor heath ledger found dead. no further details.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..106S17.DTL
”people who make the decision to walk away from their vast mortagage payment aren’t the sort of folks who will be buying more Jimmy Choos any time soon, now are they? ”
Christy I can’t wait for my new cell phone to arrive tomorrow because it means i can place a call to Joe Biden’s office, which will go something like this:
”I know the bankruptcy reform Act of 2005 was a big achievement for Senator Biden because it made sure that consumers were responsible for their credit card debt. I was wondering though if you could tell me which is worse: people who walk away from a median debt of $2,200 or people who walk away from hundreds of thousands in mortgage debt.
Just askin’…”
Haven’t seen her in a few days. She was working on a project for her nephews last time we chatted…
The economy didn’t really recover from the internet/energy bubble.
Money fled to the ’safe haven’ of real estate, and unfettered greed coupled with a total lack of oversight allowed that bubble to build atop the prior excess.
What we will see is two ‘corrections’ for the price of one (administration).
This is unfettered free market capitalism at it’s worst.
Consumerism is two-thirds of our GDP. How long did anyone really believe that a consumerism based economy could last? Real jobs shipped overseas replaced with service and financial jobs. Bush’s War not financed by tax increases, instead the rich got tax cuts and the war financed by foreign holders of our debt. Homeowners believed their home quadrupled in value and pulled out “equity”
tofinance vacations, SUV’s, granite countertops, and payoff credit cardsand believed a money tree was growing in the backyard. Bush’s economy was a scam created in 1999 under the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act which provided the catalyst for Banks Gone Wild.med bills 500 (continuous due to lack of regulated health insurance)
health insurance 650
house payments, taxes, insurance 2200
(house refied multiply times for health bills)
utilities 160-300
credit cards 300 (minimum payments)
misc 250
food and meds 800
self employed
no income in three months
looking for work for months
nothing paid this month but food
about to lose health insurance for chronically ill spouse
fucked
I told my husband we aren’t alone in this. He blames himself. He says not being alone doesn’t help. I have a headache.
Should I click on Submit Comment? Am I being whiney? Have you heard this enough from me?
I’m lucky to live in a serious recycling township. Every Spring they offer classes and composters to any interested resident. Plus they compost all our leaves and other plant matter for our use. And nothing enriches a soil like compost.
It’s already part of the wikioedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_Ledger
Hugs, mary…not whiny at all. Reality sucks for far too many people at the moment.
I’ve definately been feeling pinched for many years.
I’m in a neighborhood that’s considered a very desirable area to live in our town, and houses that used to sell in less than a month have been up for sale for three to six months without a nibble. Most of them are now sporting “price reduced” signs.
If it’s that bad in a popular area, what is happening elsewhere?
Have you seen tomato plants growing upside down out of plastic buckets?
way cool.
You can hang them off the eaves.
Do you qualify for Social Security Disability? Your husband should.
Our trash folks also pick up organic material for composting. I think I’m going to check out how to get a load of compostfor our yard this year before I plant. Thanks for the reminder!
Bush better start his next war pretty soon, or he’ll be fighting Americans in the streets.
I’m going to try that this year…if I ever get around to it….procrastination…but this year it means food! Is there anything else you can grow that way? Peppers?
A 12 year old girl wearing (just) a tshirt that says “
“
I feel like I need to hide the browser window when the kids come in the room.
Saw those last Spring — looked like they’d be fun to try. Making a note in my planner to check with my favorite nursery for them!
Don’t see why not, as long as you can keep the root ball stable.
Thankfully, Republics attepts at “reform” failed.
start your kitchen countertop composters now, pups.
Rep Pomeroy recently held a hearing locally on the serious backlog in processing social security disability cases…backlog as much as two years…more Grover Norquist compassionate conservatism for the overwhelmed civil servants.
Dance, ideologues, dance….
http://www.ssa.gov/disability/
It might help…?
I wonder what Bush will say in his State of the Union Speech. After repeating tax cuts are good for the economy his entire term he should start to experience public backlash against that term.
Believe me you are not alone. There are millions of others in the boat with you. And it should never have come to this for so many folks. You are not being “whiney”. I know who to blame for these types of situations. And he currently sits in the White House.
Hanging tomato and strawberry plants instead of flower baskets is something I will seriously think of doing this year.
On the ad questions, if anyone knows of a better way to fully fund the blog, I’m all ears. Otherwise, the ad revenue covers server and other costs for us that are not being covered any other way unless we suck Jane’s savings account dry, which I for one am not willing to do.
And the ads we get come through a rotating brokered account, as I understand it, whose content changes each time you refresh your screen. So, if there is a particular ad you don’t like, you can refresh your screen and it should be gone. Voila, instant change.
We first need to change the party. Then we change the system.
My husband’s doctor said he wasn’t disabled regardless of having heart disease, migraines, gout, diverticulitus, peripheral artery disease, and degenerative arthritis in his back.
We are thinking of getting a divorce so if either of us has a medical mishap (you know-like-get sick) then the other won’t have the debt.
The secret to Mittmentum has been discovered in Malkinville:
Mitt Romney seems to have gotten a surge of support from Ann Coulter endorsing him, Ann Coulter being another one, like Rush, whose demise of influence the MSM so desperately wishes for that it keeps wrongly calling it.
He’s gotten the much vaunted Coulter Boost.
-G
WRT Gardening — one of our local Garden gurus has a radio show on Saturday morning, and he’s real fond of container gardening. Last year he tried something new — planting in Straw Bales. He says it takes much less water than regular containers, produces great results, and the bales can be composted at the end of the harvest.
my dad bought me an earthbox for my apartment balcony, and i was amazed at the simplicity and how well things grow. i just planted two earthboxes on my new balcony with flowers and herbs, and will be planting a third with tomatos.
I don’t think penicillin will touch that either……
Mary –
I’m right there with you. I have tightened and tightened and tightened my belt until I’m reduced to a frail size 2. I live with no frills. Zilch. If I had entered a Buddhist nunnery life would not be simpler. I spend $20 every two weeks on gas in my car which means I go nowhere and it sits three days before I use it.
I actually like living a more frugal life but this is beyond frugal. Winter has been brutal. I survive better in warmer months:))
Oh I understand the ads, and I personally think Snorg has some funny shirts, but some of them…
There is hope. And the bedrock of that hope is ripping away the rotten foundation of the Republican Party.
Now’s the time to reconnect with that packrat relative of yours, you know the one who saves everything because someday there’ll come a use for it. Some day soon.
That phrase “mass-affluent audience” packs so much more into those three measley words…it has me at a standstill contemplating it.
I’m a purchaser of that kind of mass-affluent stuff, but I’m bought out. A week in NYC and zip. I couldn’t find anything that tempted my pocketbook except an Apple Nano to store my modern classical music on (my wife hates the stuff). As to her, she took the required pass through Saks and Bergdorfs, but only bought stuff that was at least 50 percent off, and is now going into consumer hibernation. We’re pretty close to the top of the income bracket that these advertisers serve, and we’re not buying for a long time to come. Hate to think how it’s going to affect Wolfie’s salary. Tough times coming on CNN and the other bobbly-head operations that indirectly milk the American consumer.
Hmmm…try a different doctor and if he won’t help, keep trying different doctors.
Helicopter Ben is trying to juice the market before the election to prevent a Dem sweep based on bad economic news. I think his timing is off because a cut this big last year would have caused the market to go up 3 or 4 hundred points.
Today the MARKET IS DOWN!
Helicopter Ben needs new tricks.
Keynesian Tricks
Hard to say, but there should be plenty of soldiers-as-props there to reinforce his standing as the Commander Guy.
I know — it was such a loaded term, I couldn’t help highlighting it in all of its gory.
I grew cherry tomatoes out of plain hanging planters. Worked a charm!
My guess is your husband’s doctor is a member of the GOP. Look for another MD.
GOP family values in action
just a note, hanging plants need water more frequently than those in the ground and even those in containers on the ground.
sorry for that earlier misfire
And we are the richest nation on the planet?
What pisses me off is that I can just see Bush and his buddies waltzing off the national stage in a year (when we’re in the midst of a full-blown recession) snickering to themselves about how they passed his mess on to a Democratic President.
Fucking asshat. King reverse Midas.
Are you part of an HMO?
I do two things: first I use a drip system for the hanging plants. Then I put container plants below each one.
Seems like a rash of young folks, actors and such dying suddenly. I saw footage of Amy Winehouse and she looks to be on deaths doorstep too.
Sad times.
-G
There is only one way out of this debt crisis that is politically palatable. That is to adopt monetary and fiscal policies that promote a brisk rate of inflation.
If our international debt wasn’t repayable in dollars, we would be screwed like Argentina. This time we escape with moderate to serious damage, but still afloat.
Bush will try to blame us somehow for this but how?
that’s a good idea!
Always occurs in threes.
Tomatoes were $3.75 lb yesterday here….Think how many plants you could plant with $3.75 worth of tomato seeds.
1,734 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Great post…we are beginnin’ to experience the logical conclusion of corporate fascist economics. If we don’t see folks jumpin’ outta skyscraper windows onto the Wall street pavement, it’s only ‘cuz those poor brokers have been cut loose long ago…and the direct transfer of capital from those still workin’ to the oligarchy through the laundry of the federal treasury and direct cash payments for Iraq War contracts continues and will continue until the entire tax base is bankrupted and the only troops gettin’ a paycheck are those owned by Blackwater and other corporate mercenary outfits.
After watchin’ the last Democratic candidate debate, I think I understand what an ancient Greek musta felt like when he/she saw Aristophanes’s’ “The Birds” for the first time out in the neighborhood amphitheater…it’s rather disconcerting ta watch the insanity of our current political reality played out on a stage and the actors are the only ones takin’ the whole performance seriously.
We are truly and righteously fucked and neither Mrs. Clinton or Barak O’Lieberman (though I’m gettin’ a little less afraid of the Kenyan from Chicago) are capable of doin’ a God damned thing about it.
We jest gotta hope that Edwards ken bump Mrs. Clinton ta 3rd in South Carolina…
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…THERE ARE MORE OF US THAN THERE ARRE OF THEM!!
Procure a doctor who has a different view and then get a lawyer who specializes in handling disability cases.
Maybe George H.W. Bush weeps frequently knowing that Jeb’s chances to be President have been royally screwed by Dubya. It’s a comforting thought.
Clinton caused 9/11.
Bloomberg had something on that today. To wit:
Goes on to say that history will treat him harshly. But this isn’t just Bush’s fault — it’s every rubber-stamping asshat who went along for the ride’s fault as well.
Not to be callous but not really. think Janice, Jimi, Jim, James Dean, etc.
Everytime Helicopter Ben rides to the rescue of the banks and lowers the Fed discount rate, the dollar devalues and inflation escalates. He’s feeding the beasts instead of allowing the market to self correct.
My last “big” consumer item came courtesy of birthday money and a 3 paycheck month. I bought the Ipod Classic — I figure since it took me 3 years to put a 1,000 songs on my Mini, that it will take forever to put 40,000 on the Classic.
The Mini now belongs to my sister…
Strange. Reverse Midas =Sadim.
Norske…
The corporate fascists are indeed in control. And the DLC is part of that control. But what do I know? I’m a liberal left-wing fanatic who strongly believes in justice.
I think it will be funny to watch the media stocks of the business talking heads collapse as their advertising heads south. I avoid taking advice from employees of companies that are loosing profit and or market share.
I don’t see how a rate cut is going to help things. There was a housing bubble, and a lot of people bought overvalued houses with loans they shouldn’t have gotten. The problem is that the value of houses has dropped, and many owners now have negative equity in their homes (i.e. they owe more to the bank than the house is worth). Some owners can’t pay off their loans, so the bank gets the house back. Other owners have made the decision to default on their loans, even though they could conceivably keep paying. Again, the bank is stuck with the house. So now we’ve got a lot of banks stuck with houses that are worth less than they were a few years ago. The banks can either sell the houses at a loss, or they can try to rent them out until their values come back up. Low-interest loans don’t really help them do either one of these things. So how are they supposed to help solve the problem?
Elliot@116:
I am already a packrat, starting getting goofy about it around 4 years ago when I began getting bad feelings about our economy. My husband doesn’t get it yet but I’ve had a feeling that the packratting will have benefits. Swapping, renovating stuff for new uses such as earthboxes, etc.
No, Ron is part of a group plan through Costco. I am on medi-cal for another year. I hope we don’t have to go live with my parents in Mississippi. Then neither of us will have coverage.
I spend my days thinking up “work arounds” and manipulations to survive. I think we just hit the nothing left to do about it wall.
It’s not about proper medical care. It’s about the insurance industry. This is one of the main reasons we support John Edwards for president. We could use a good trial attorney in the White House. Wonder why the Republicans hate trial lawyers so much?
You know, I think of myself as a fairly nice person in that I don’t wish misfortune on anybody. Even the rich, even W.
But I do wish for justice to prevail on Bush for his crimes-at the very least, for history to judge him as the biggest blunder this country has ever made. (Yeah, in the end, as U.S. citizens, I think we’re all responsible in some way for that imbecile’s rise to power. We can redeem ourselves by throwing him in jail for a very long time.)
Can someone explain the logic of the Bush stimulus package? As I understand it, everyone gets a check for $800. We’re already running a huge deficit, and we already have a huge debt. There doesn’t seem to be any plan to pay for the new stimulus package. Why don’t we just give everyone a check for a million dollars? If deficits and debts don’t matter, why can’t we all be millionaires?
I just can’t see how consumer capitalism can sustain itself. It is a flash in the pan way to run an economy. At some point, you have most of your needs. Stuff is suffercating. Minimalism is far more airy a way to live. You know, when you walk into a lovely Japanese antique store and sitting in the middle of the space is a simple stone bowl, filled with water and a single leaf floating in it. It is stunning. Makes you want to go home and throw everything out and keep that zen feeling. Naguchi used light the same way – a simple paper lamp in an interesting shape.
The only thing I need to replentish is food and gas and the occasional outfit. The rest is stuff.
Yeah, why can’t they just print up some more money? I’ll take mine in twenties, please.
Want to hire good legal representation? Then hire the best. Hire John Edwards for President.
I think the Bush stimulus plan can be summed up with this phrase: “shiny object.” Oooh, look, a check…
Let’s Legalize Freedom.
We can’t do that. If you got a million dollars for doing nothing, it would make all the hard work George W. Bush did to be born into a wealthy family meaningless.
I have long thought that the “housing bubble” resembled “Tulip Mania” in Europe in the 1600’s (CE). That had a very messy ending too. I find myself wondering if the Fed rate changes of the last few years were intended to produce exactly this result…except the powers that be were hoping it wouldn’t come home to roost until February 2009?
justice is good for us all.
It would be nice if we didn’t even have to replenish gas.
Many don’t pay taxes. Our income with deductions puts us in the no tax bracket. We don’t get any money back.
The logic is to make shrub look good so he isn’t tarred and feathered before leaving office. To hell with debt.
Will the Center Dems do something now? I’m not talking an economic stimulus. I’m talking end the war to save money. Bring the troops home to boost housing demand. Get the troops some high paying jobs fixing our roads and bridges so that they can afford to buy homes. Get rid of that Bankruptcy law. Let a few banks and hedgefunds fail.
Or the Dems can do nothing and then we replace them… assuming that the system is still working.
We cannot afford to bail out the Banks, Hedgefunds, Savings and Loans and Financial companies like Bush 1 did the Savings and Loans.
We will bankrupt everyone if we try to save Bush’s “economic elite ” base. We need to save ourselves.
The Bush stimulus baloney is the same old GOP ruse. Tax cuts cure everything. Especially when your “spending” $15,000,000,000 per month on ridiculous and losing wars.
There’s also the fact that so many jobs have been lost to various reasons, leaving only a finite number of folks able to afford the prices on the consumer items. I’ve always felt that sooner or later (and most likely sooner) all those lost jobs and downsizing had to come back and hurt the businesses when no one can afford the toys.
and it seemed to work the first time
The Bush stimulus package is pure Rove PR.
Frank, that may be true in some areas of the country, certainly it’s true in California, where I think all the housing is grossly overvalued and has been for years. But here in AZ, I bought my house in 2003 for $93,500. The loan was one of those no doc, no money down numbers they call sub-prime. It had a three year prepayment penalty, with the first adjustment due in 5 years. It would have added a tremendous amount to my mortgage payment (Something like prime plus 9 points-I consider that close to usury.) However, I refied loan last year to a fixed mortgage and I bought down the interest rate by 1%. When the house was appraised for the refi, the value was $170K, so even if it loses 10%-30%, I still will not be upside down on it. So a lower interest rate and some extra time may help many others to actually do the same thing, as long as their home hasn’t lost too much value. Location matters, though. CA, my condolences to you. If values come down to what they should be, many owners will be sunk and so will many banks.
Too bad they’ve been playing musical financiers with the mortgage market. Looks like companies providing PMI and many of the secondary mortgage market will be left holding the bag.
Thus far I don’t hear my party railing against the phoniness of the BS (Bush stimulus package) package
The Chinese did something similar with silk. They traded the wonder fabric for gold. The fools fell for it. The silk ultimately shredded and the Chinese treasure was filled with gold.
I’m okay with him making all of his friends billionaires, too. Because I’m pretty sure he’s going to do that anyway.
The talk I’ve heard on the news is that it would go to everyone — including those who don’t make enough to pay income tax, not sure how that’s going to work.
The scary thing to me is that normally, priming the pump or stimulus is a Keynesian Democratic technique for creating consumer demand in hopes of starting a cycle involving increased need for production to meet the demand, therefore increased hiring. You wory about the debt later. The fact that this group of ultra capitalists are, on their own, rushing to prime the pump is pretty worrisome.
If you have a small back yard (like me) you might consider an Envirocycle. It makes great compost and takes up almost no room at all. If you have no yard at all you might want to look into an AeroGarden, which actually does work. I’ve got herbs growing in my bedroom as I type this. The initial outlay for either of these things isn’t too huge, and they both do exactly what they’re designed to do.
I thought Little Boots was apposed to that. We could use $1600 about now.
Don’t you know by now that virtually any plan for anything Bush comes up with, no matter what, is not intended the middle class or the poor? It’s an axiom.
The Republics are fortunate that the Democrats are barely recognizable as a Party. There’s rarely a single, coherent, voice of opposition.
The outrageous, amoral mess that this adm & greedy corps have made was totally avoidable & inexcusable. Many (not so wealthy) who have dismissed us as just angry liberals are going to hit the wall too, which is no comfort. Sticking your head up your ass is guaranteed to render you deaf & blind.
The banks made bad loans they need cash the Fed cut just makes it cheaper for banks to borrow money from the Fed to cover their bad loans which nobody wants to buy anymore.
The Fed is hopping that a bunch of suckers will think the market has hit bottom borrow money on Margin from the banks and buy stocks.
But since nobody knows the true amount of money that the Banks, Hedges etc lost nobody is buying stocks on Margin. Which is funny because to get a loan from a bank they want to know all about your assets and credit history.
In no way will a rate cut now help regular people. Another cut at the regular Fed meeting might give people a chance to sell assuming that the Fed matters anymore.
The Chinese tried the same stunt with the Brits over opium, only the British didn’t play by the same rules — that’s how they got the (once) British Crown Colony of Hong Kong…
Little Boots says what he’s told to say. He has no opinions.
Totally OT: Actor Heath Ledger just died. Election horse-race-watching has been suspended for 24 hours so the media can devote its full resources to sensationalizing the story and dragging his name through the mud. They will resume discussing John Edwards’ hair at 8AM on Thursday.
Since we don’t make anything in this country anymore won’t this give away just make things worse in the long run?
So then we tell these folks to take their right hand and place it on their left ear, and their left hand and place it on their right ear and while exerting a steady even pressure, pull their heads outta their a**es
I watched part of the Senate Finance Committe on possiilites for stimulating the economy. Orrin Hatch wants to give employers tax credits so the employers can give their employees money. Gee, that wouldn’t be easy to game would it? Plus that’ll fix those lazy do nothings who were laid off.
But there is interest in extending unemployment benefits and also other public assistancy sorts of things to get some spending money to the least of us.
I am in the group here that doesn’t understand the logic of giving money we don’t have to ourselves right now. I’m not just smelling bread here at the circus.
Everything Bush does makes things worse in the long run. That’s his talent.
That should read …is not intended ‘to help’ the middle class or the poor?
Check out square foot gardening (assorted books at amazon.com plus a website or three out there) for small area gardening.
Yeah, I fully agree, but I guess they would answer, a demand for increased services, since that’s what we do now.
Who is supposed to get this $800? Everyone? The poor? I don’t want it but would surely like for people who need it to get something although I can’t figure out where the money will come from. Oh, that’s right – out of the middle class pockets – certainly they won’t cut the GWOT funding.
the “recession” has been here ever since this administration started giving tax gifts to the wealthy at the expense of the middle class, they are only just beginning to feel it themselves
Keynesian economic theory is viable whereas Reagan had already disproved Trickle down (tax cuts). Reagan ended up with massive debt and a bloated bureaucracy. Dubya will end up worse for having instituted trickle down/supply side economics yet again – after it had been totally disproven. The intent was to wreck the federal government and drown the remains in a bathtub.
Here we go again.
AP – Congressional Democratic leaders said Tuesday that they feel urgency to enact an economic stimulus plan and are confident they can work with President Bush to craft it quickly. The president also expressed confidence but said any deal must be done right, not just fast.
Bill Clinton is going to finance the stimulus package with his $20 million dollar windfall announced today.
Those $800-$1600 checks are a tax rebate.
It will be factored in when you file your 2008 income tax form. To quote Heinlein:
There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.
So how’s that work if you get money back on the taxes?
BrokeBack Mountain Heath? Nooooo! Huck and the fundies are now going to lecture about the evils of Gay Marriage for a week! Bush needs a distraction from the economy. BrokeBack was the first Gay film a lot of people saw I think it helped change Americans minds about Gay Marriage. Gay Marriage was not a factor in the last election when the Dems won. But I’m sure the GOP will drag Heath through the mud to *cough* try and motivate their base.
I belive George W. Bush has said numerous times that it is not his father who is his hero, but Ronald Reagan. So what you’re telling us fits perfectly.
If when the
bandaidstimulus ultimately fails to “fix” the recession, W will blame the Democratic Congress…that is why Pelosi and Reid are stupid to coordinate with him….they should make it clear that it his stimulus plan….and BTW, they should make it clear that his policies are what have caused this mess in the first place….but, noooooooooooo….they are going to try to take credit for being cooperative; then W and the Pukes will stab them in the back in the end….works every time.707
It can cut down the amount you get back, and could mean you end up owing Uncle Sam some money…Doesn’t look so good now, does it?
dakine01@186:
Not holding my breath. Too many of them like it like that.
I think that’s right. I don’t think I said anything in answering what pump priming is supposed to do, that is counter to that interpretation. But when asked why Democrats don’t jump all over the effort, its because the technique comes straight for Keynes and Galbraith. If you remember, the last time it was primed with $300, it was actually Democrats who developed the plan and Bush used it.
Well. If all else fails, we Democrats can look to the DLC to solve the problem.
I’ve got 3 raised 4×4 beds so far, and my asparagus patch, which I just added about 6×6 feet to. Year by year the raised beds will take over the back yard. I can afford to put in 1 or 2 a year, what with the cost of the timbers and the soil to fill them and my wonderful yard guy to build them. The concept of Square Foot Gardening is great, but at this point Mel Bartholomew is annoying me because he got so frightfully dogmatic. You HAVE to do things his way… Me, I stole the good ideas and work them in ways that work for me! Now if only the Dreaded Squash Vine Borer would leave my zucchini alone I’d be a happy camper!
more of the rediculous “trickle down”, “supply side”, “voodoo” economics, it’s obsurd
someone mentioned downstairs and I want to give credit but I don’t know who;
since they are so fond of “trickle down” we will counter with “bubble up”
how obsurd to believe if we give wealthy people money somehow more money then we give will wind up in the hands of the middle class
on the other hand, it’s entirely likely that if we target growth in the middle class sectors more money then we invest WILL “bubble up”
their worst nightmare though, the middle class becomming wealthy.
this does NOT happen at their expense, when the middle class thrives the upper class thrives as well
the middle class is the engine that drives the American economy, the upper class is NOT
Tweety’s show is bringing up Wal-Mart and Rezko….
Edwards will be the last man standing.
Raspberry sound – PB does it so well.
to him this means;
“borrow more money from the middle class, give it to people so wealthy they cannot possibly spend it”
it also means;
“if you don’t do it my way we are not going to do anything”
Your gonna borrow money against your future tax refund (or liability!). Like deficit spending, you will spend the future’s money today to stimulate the economy today. Ponzi scheme.
Lucy is getting the ball ready now.
-G
Many folks are already on economic skid row. They just haven’t quite realized it yet. Pass that bottle of Thunderbird, please.
And blame it on them when it doesn’t save Amuuuurika.
We should demand that all conservatives shun the check and return it immediately.
They must not encourage big government giveaways.
-G
That about covers it.
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT??
Like John Edwards said, “You can’t trust Bush”.
Oh wouldn’t that be sweet!
That means giving Bush everything he wants. What a pathetic opposition party.
I PAID THOSE TAXES AND I DAMN WELL BETTER GET THEM BACK!
Prime the pump fine but you can’t pump a hand pump well ONCE and expect to get water. you need to keep pumping, we need to create better paying jobs to keep the pump going. One Pump Bush is giving the poor one slice of Cake to eat with his $300, $ 800? one pump prime. We need to keep pumping so that the poor and middle class have cash next week after they get their checks.
“Recession” or “Republicans”? Or both?
That’s what happened the last time…
I think they are printing out millions of envelopes to mail all those checks to the recipients:
$1,500,000 addressed to the many variations of G. W. Bush, Crawford; GWB43 Paraguay; George Bush c/o RNC…etc., and
$1,500,000 addressed to Dick Cheney, Maryland; Bruce Cheney, Wyoming; Darth Cheney, Paraguay….
That $300 thingie or whatever it was in the first year?
I always get money back on my taxes, and I got that check.
Reid and Pelosi – Stop being enablers and you’ll quit ending up holding Dubya’s bag of shit.
Alright you two. Three time outs and no recesss tomorrow.
AP – Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton argued on Tuesday that Barack Obama’s frustration with losing prompted him to look for a fight in their latest debate. Obama said his rival and her husband, former President Clinton, were distorting his record.
Is that little stimulus gift “tax exempt”?????
“priming the pump” is a completely different strategy then bush has EVER submitted
priming the pump is investing in an important industry that is NOT currently successfull
it is NOT investing in industry that IS successful
and these investments are just that, INVESTMENTS
the investments have to be recovered with dividends from the industry we invest, NOT from the middle class
I wonder how much the value of the dollar will drop thanks to the Fed rate cut? In a sense a rate cut drops the value of everybody’s money and makes loans cheaper. Which means I pay more money for gas. But the Bank can borrow money cheaper to pay its debts.
A rate cut then is a tax in this case on us but the money goes to the banks rather than the government.
Proof once again. What goes around comes around.
Of course that’s true. Unfortunately, we don’t know if anything will help this time. All I’m explaining is why you won’t here any Democrats opposing the plan. The normal republican answer to any economic crisis would be to further cut taxes on the wealthy so that they will just run out and increase supply. The Democrat method is to increase demand.
No, the bottom line is that you can’t remain a consumer nation if you’re not earning salaries. You can’t earn sufficient salaries when all production and most services flow to the cheapest labor market.
I have a reputation in these here parts!
PPBBBBBBBBBBBBTHTPT!
Jane and John upstairs.
“priming the pump” is a completely different strategy then bush has EVER submitted
priming the pump is investing in an important industry that is NOT currently successfull
it is NOT investing in industry that IS successful
and these investments are just that, INVESTMENTS
the investments have to be recovered with dividends from the industry we invest, NOT from the middle class
1) agree
2) is this Snark or Bush’s understanding of why his Dad and the Bin Laudens bailed out his businesses?
3)and 4) by investments do you mean that we should not expect any return? Because bridges and road repair will give us a return. The Iraq war however is not going to give us a return.
http://www.answers.com/topic/p…..at=biz-fin
The above defines pump priming.
But then again the recession means less production and transportation costs, as well as driving by the general public. So there may actually be a glut of gasoline. In fact, the price of oil in Europe dropped the equivalent of almost $10/bbl today.
those definitions state the intention of priming the pump, there is a practical application which the definition misses
you can’t “prime the pump” in an industry that is successful, that pump is already primed, priming itself indicates there is a vacuum that has to be filled
that’s what the neo cons leave out with their “pump priming”, they continue to “prime the pump” of industry that can’t be primed since they are already profitable and are already growing at the acceptable rate
priming is for unsuccessful industry or industry we need to grow at greater rate, it’s not for anything else and it certainly isn’t a gift for the wealthy, it’s an investment in the needy
my response at 240 should have included this post at 238 since this is what I was responding to
sigh,
market analysts on the NewsHour going on about this as a buying opportunity.
Chaney knew this was coming, and was part of the plan & timing to announce the bond insurance credit rating write down just before a 3 day weekend.
Chaney shorted the market two weeks ago, and has doubled his fortune, along with all the other senior administration figures and many well connected rich republicans.
synoia, that is one excellant post and I quoted you on the thread one flight up
It’s all Clinton’s fault–uh…CHELSEA CLINTON!
KKKonservatives are innocent, I tell you…innocent…
I swear, we didn’t do it…it’s Carter’s fault, or maybe
Jesse Jackson’s…no! No! Don’t come any closer!
KKKonservatives are innocent, I swear it!
I swear! We’re inno….Aaaaaaahhhh!!!
Some thing has found Conservatism——–
CLOVER-REALITY!!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t think any presidential candidate should even suggest someone as a veep candidate until they’ve won the nomination and even then it should only be done after consulting the veep candidate privately.
Economics isn’t quite that simple. Sometimes having gold is awful because your people need to eat. Sometimes having gold is precious because it gives you flexibility and maybe the ability to wait until you know what you need to buy.
You may say they were foolish for buying silk cloth, but at least it had utilitarian value for a time.