Andrew Bacevich in WaPo’s Sunday Outlook:
In only one respect has the surge achieved undeniable success: It has ensured that U.S. troops won’t be coming home anytime soon. This was one of the main points of the exercise in the first place. As AEI military analyst Thomas Donnelly has acknowledged with admirable candor, "part of the purpose of the surge was to redefine the Washington narrative," thereby deflecting calls for a complete withdrawal of U.S. combat forces. Hawks who had pooh-poohed the risks of invasion now portrayed the risks of withdrawal as too awful to contemplate. But a prerequisite to perpetuating the war — and leaving it to the next president — was to get Iraq off the front pages and out of the nightly news.
General Petraeus on NBC this morning:
We think we won’t know that we’ve reached a turning point until we’re six months past it. We have repeatedly said that there is no lights at the end of the tunnel that we’re seeing. We’re certainly not dancing in the end zone or anything like that.
Dubya and the right-wing punditocracy tell us that The Surge is working like gangbusters, but General BuzzkillUs says we must wait another Friedman Unit to make sure the Surgey Magic is really working. Who should we believe?
Answer: None of above.
The Kristol Krazies are trying to convince us that the invasion and the subsequent surge were brilliant strategeric moves by the Steely Decider-In-Chief Who Can Do No Wrong and should therefore be continued indefinitely, while Petraeus feigns uncertainty to pre-empt calls to declare victory and bring the troops home.
Both narratives are completely false. The Surge has not come even remotely close to achieving its original stated objective, which was to secure political reconciliation in the Iraqi government (remember that?), and there’s nothing uncertain about it. As Bacevich says, the real objective is to justify keeping troops in Iraq forever, or at least until Iraq becomes Not Dubya’s Problem.
*For those unfamiliar with advanced physics, the Friedman Unit is a measure of quantum time governed by the Rumsfeld Uncertainty Principle, meaning that it can last anywhere from six months to infinity, depending on whether an observer is present.
Related posts:
- David Petraeus is a Secret Muslim
- Odierno and Petraeus vs. Cheney on Abuse as a Terrorist Recruitment Tool
- Changing of the Guard: US Troops Withdraw from Iraqi Cities; Maliki Declares “Sovereignty Day”
- Pete Hoekstra: US Shouldn’t Close Guantanamo — It’s a “Great Place”
- Meet Anthony Woods, Progressive Candidate For Congress In The Bay Area Special Election
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No more Friedman units. Xeno needs to walk out the door, not half way to it!
gimme a z
second thought…
Dumb Shits.
It’s like the Creation. Yeah, there were only seven days, but how *long* were they?
ELI…i said this am i had a surge in my tummy,so little Napolean Petreus wants another Friedman
I vividly recall by H.S. Algebra teacher demonstrating Xeno’s dilemma (before crossing the floor, one must cross half the floor, but, first, half of that area, and half of that and….) Before you know, you can’t go to lunch. Or stop occupying a foreign nation.
Oh by. I must hab a cobe.
Yes, Xeno is one way of looking at it, but I went with the quantum physics angle instead. I also considered comparing the Friedman Unit to the TARDIS, but I figured there probably weren’t enough Dr. Who geeks out there.
No matter how many days we’ve been fighting in Iraq, and no matter how long those days were, there’s no way God is looking down on all that killing and seeing that it was good.
When you hear or read from a source that the surge is working, you have only to consider the source for that claim. For us it seems fairly simple.
Hi Eli, I just ran across news of a new study
Study: False Statements Preceded War
Impeachment and War crimes trials yet?
Aren’t we on the 5th surge? I’m sure eventually one of the surges will work. *rolling eyes*
Petraeus is betraying us, because he’s pandering to the Bush Regime at the expense of our soldiers and the reputation of our country, which are two things Petraeus and the Bush Regime don’t care about.
Tom and Unca Miltie Friedman Units should be outlawed.
Well, whether the model is from Plato, Xeno or Heisenberg, the bottom line is that the ’surge’ doesn’t fit any of them, being, as it is, a perversion and a lie.
That probably would have come in handy four years ago…
Well, this news will not be on my TeeVee tonight. But, I am glad I was sitting down when I read it.
Yes, although functionally it’s more of a gimmick, a red herring, a MacGuffin.
US monthly casualties:
http://icasualties.org/oif/US_chart.aspx
Ah, but was that *really* the original objective? Oops, sorry, I see that you wrote “stated” objective. Like the original stated objective of the war on Iraq was to find and eliminate the threat of nuclear Iraq, right?
This administration has showed us, time and time again, that the “original stated objective” is nothing more than the current cover story, that really has nothing to do with the real objective. Whatever rationale this administration offers for anything is almost guaranteed not to be what their real objective is. It is all about hype. In fact, I think someone should write a book, using the title, “The Disinformation Presidency.” George Orwell was a prophet.
Bob in HI
a hundred more years!!
That’s a McCain unit.
The patient won’t be ready for discharge until he accepts that he’s crazy and needs the hospital.
My SO is wondering if we (meaning me) have had enough of politics for one day and would like to look at a flick upstairs? Of course my answer is, you know Lahoma, I think I’ve had enough of politics for today. Lets watch a movie. My woman can be very suggestive. Goodnight, to all of you.
“I also considered comparing the Friedman Unit to the TARDIS, but I figured there probably weren’t enough Dr. Who geeks out there.”
I resemble that remark!!!
Bob in HI
Whovian for 20 years
Teh Surge = Teh Cardio Paddles.
oy!!!!! (think working class brit accent and you’ve got it!)
We’re certainly not dancing in the end zone or anything like that.
what, no spike for the surge?
W is still reading My Pet Gloat.
I’m envisioning another rubberstamp movement. Let’s all send Nancy place settings. Flatware. Tablecloths. Glassware.
Hey, same here. And my girlfriend’s hooked on the series reboot, although she won’t give the old episodes the time of day, alas.
Exactly. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. (Who is pillaging with one hand and stalling with the other.)
I was certain i was going to encounter Schrodinger’s pussycat at the end of that post….
And a couple of bowls – one for peaches, one for mints.
I like the new school eps, but in that? I’m more a Torchwood fangirl. But i’ve been watching a few of the old school eps. So far? My favorite of them is Seven’s run. I’ll be looking into Two’s run as well, later on. He looks like such an IMP! *giggles*
More like Schrodinger’s Iraq.
The light at the end of the tunnel (which will take Petraeus six mos. to see) is actually a freight train, which, thanks to him, has a lot of momentum.
I think I have seen at least one episode of each Doctor (probably *exactly* one of 1, 2, 5, 7, and 8 – of course, 8 only *had* one episode if I’m counting right).
3 & 4 (Pertwee and Tom Baker) were great, although I think 6 (Colin Baker) was underappreciated.
And yes, she’s also a huge Torchwood fangirl, and is despondent that she’ll have to miss Ghost Voyage to watch the Series 2 premiere. Fortunately, Blood Monkey is on Sunday night, so no conflict there.
That kitty lives with me now. He was sick and tired of being stared at…
And the idea is to keep laying down track so that Dubya’s not the one who gets hit.
The light at the end of the tunnel, being, of course, that elusive resolution of Viet Nam we never found, and which now is being repeated in even more atrocious ways. It is sickening to see a U.S. general using that image so thoughtlessly.
Schrodinger’s cat?
This brings to mind a classic column from Cecil Adams at “The Straight Dope.” First, the question . . .
Click through for Cecil’s answer, also in verse.
OK, it makes sense to give you the link if I’m going to tell you to click through.
Preview is my friend . . .
Eli- that’s exactly what it looks like!
Where?
He needs to turn that book right side up.
see my 41
Pelosi apparently said she would impeach if she had seen any evidence of impeachable offenses, but she said she had seen none….
Helllloooooo!!!!!
I give up, she is impeachable….she is an impeachable offense herself for not doing her duty to uphold the Constitution.
Grrrrrrr……
I swear, I think she has the hots for W.
Peterr, that’s a gem. Unfortunately it reminds me of my mother’s joke about her chronic fatigue being like nuclear waste: both have a very long half-life.
Sounds like Iraq will be joining that set.
I really think the Bush Administration is a conspiracy. No, I’m not going to put a friggin’ tinfoil hat on…
You may be onto something..with the way she smiled over meeting Bush and discussing stimulus packaging today. Made me ill, just watching it.
I thought that picture made her look as if she had taken too many of her meds – kinda zoned out.
In long-term adolescent units, very often manifest (or documented, at ant rate) a week prior to exhaustion of inpatient benefits.
Ah, that would be the little known Catch 22(a).
I have exhausted every other theory…that one falls into the category of basic biology 101. I’ve considered that as a possible explanation for a long time – just watch the body language, and then listen to her spew out her excuses for not doing anything about it. She’s the one being had, if it is the case though…he could care less.
kiddo is upstairs. We are going to watch once again “Dances With Wolves”. But before I go up the stairs to join my warrior I want to say this in no uncertain terms to Senator Clinton: on the issue of Iraq Senator, you fail. And miserably. You have let down the people of Iraq, this nation, and most importantly you have let down humanity. I do not view you as the peace candidate. May God have mercy on you for what you have helped to accomplish in the Middle East. You should have known better.
Lahoma. Goodnight.
She is a big flirt…that is her M.O. It is so obvious. I’m not suggesting anything past that, just sayin’….she seems…”smitten’”, and then she talks about him like someone who has the intimate authority to get away with it. He’s a big flirt too!!
anyone have a link to the Belosi Push confab today? video?
preview is my friend, too – I should call on him more often.
“at any rate”, not “at ant rate”
[”Ant rate” is the standard international unit of measurement for “trickle-down”.]
Most wars are started by men that have problems with their “units,” if you catch my drift. They get excited watching missile tests and drive Porches to make up for their unit problems.
If there is a Mrs. Tom Friedman, I suspect she understands the problem with Friedman’s Unit all to well.
So, how do we shift the argument from the McGuffin to the real McCoy?
Hear, hear!! She is in a position of influence, and if she really had any guts, she and the rest of the “I will end the war” crowd, would march down to Congress (where they are supposed to work) and filibuster to end the war…and..impeach and end the works of the cabal that we have been “subjected” to for 7 friggin’ years, costing the lives of more than a million human beings.
Spit!
There’s something we could all do to show Pelosi there’s consequences to her (in)actions. Donate here:
http://cindyforcongress.com/
Jeebers, and I get a bad case of “Is he done yet?” just trying to read past his first paragraph.
Six months?
Anyone want to place bets on whether Hillary and Obama join Dodd’s filibuster against telecom immunity?
Drive by …
I think she she does
eli, another great post, thanx
here’s what’s PISSING me off;
the democrats SHOULD BE LIVID
the president TOLD us he would do his best to insure the next president could NOT get us out of Iraq
HE TOLD US THIS
and here this DWEEB is playing the democrats LIKE A CHEAP FRIGGIN FIDEL
now it’s TIME the democrats got IN HIS FACE AND SAID
ENOUGH!
they have GOT to start getting IN his face IMMEDIATELY
Ready to be a war criminal on day 1.
kirk: at any rant
The quest for a level of stability in Iraq sufficient enough to draw oil out of the ground is desirable to many interested parties. As chaos reigns, is any oil coming out? Who is getting it? Where is it going? There must be some level of production.
It seems that the enormous embassy and many permanent military bases are part of a plan for indefinite occupation and the co-opting of Iraqi oil reserves (under a Cheneyco pre-ordained agreement regarding the division of oil revenues whereby American Oil companies reap the lion’s share of profits).
Infinite series and quantum physics together in a angry fem hippie blog, woo hoo! There are also Three Stooges, Kagan, Keane and Michael O’Hanlon (Hillary Advisor) telling us to occupy and murder the indigenous population of Iraq for many more Friedman Units. Mikey is telling us that America must “remain committed to its crucial mission in Iraq in the months and years ahead”. That is, the Stooges say YEARS more. That is, more years than the five years of blood for oil that have failed miserably.
All you Hillary fans need to tell us if Mikey the Stooge is speaking for the Hillary for President campaign. After all, he is her Stooge also.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02939.html
Oh Jebus. We’re doomed.
See!!!!!!
Those are not the expressions of rivals, those are the expressions of flirtation.
I rest my case…..;>
Well as someone who has been known to occasionally make a wager, I will wager that Fat Chance and Slim Chance mean the same thing.
But… but he might yell at them! And call them weak on terror and stuff! What are they supposed to do then, say he’s *wrong*?
Snort!!!! -.25 cents
pelosi has done something the republicans could not do
she has made me loose any faith in the democrats, now all I can do is hold my breath, I can expect nothing
add to that list of synonomous phrases some chance
Uh, what do you mean by “join”?
Yeah, like they “supported” it before.
As to showing up on Dodd’s behalf in body and mind, on the floor of the Senate, I’d bet no.
“That kitty lives with me now. He was sick and tired of being stared at…”
Well, he was and he wasn’t….
they really need to start being disabused of the notion that they will get re elected just because they are democrats
they are being played for morons by a friggin moron
how can they NOT be livid, how can they NOT get in his face
man, my heart is POUNDING, how can I go to bed now?
Not all Democrats suck.
But Pelosi and Reid sure as hell do.
So how do we change the discourse from the flim-flam to scandal? All storm and fury signifying nothing, while real people are dying and freezing and starving…and wondering who cares.
As Glennzilla said, and as have I: The Democrats never look so weak as when they try to look tough.
I think *we’re* doing everything we can. But the media and the Democrats have to pick up the torch, and they are not so inclined.
They aren’t “livid”.
Pelosi rules the House…W rules Pelosi…Cheney rules W…the Saudis rule Cheney…Oil rules the Saudis…therefore, Oil rules the world….
Feels good, don’t it?
Oops. I have no idea how it ended up as a reply @ 5, but I guess I’m looking for some creation…or evolution….
OMG. Another FU. ICTIAM. (That’s an acronym for ‘I can’t take it any more.’)
Its Henry Ford’s doing. I’m only half joking.
OK – San Francisco is said to be a tough place for women to meet (available) men…
So if Nancy’s gonna take her pages from the Rethug’s playbook…
she ought to follow their rules and take a page from the Capitol.
Besides, what does Gramma Nancy want with Boosh?
I leave you with this:
AP – A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations found that President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks.
Everything?
a date with his mom?
Laura- important you keep asking “so what do we now?”
my only hope right now is to educate the 20 somethings. I am teaching a freshman seminar “Science and Citizens”, and tho I can’t be overtly political in my comments in the classroom, I can still drop a few hints. In class today I asked how long they had been using computers and the internet- answers ranged from preschool to 5th grade- age 7- 11.
Here’s a question for all you Left Coasters…
I’m considering traveling to Santa Cruz for the Media Conference this weekend.
http://wsf2008.net/eng/node/2942
http://www.truthemergency.us/
I’m wondering if any of you all would be attending? It’d be nice to press the flesh and chew the fat.
Just about. We’ve to get their attention in just about every way imaginable. They just don’t particularly care.
Attention. And, she lives in D.C.
She works on it, and she works it.
Now, if Edwards and Pera win their primaries, *that* might get their attention. Or even if we sit on our hands and let a few Bush Dogs lose…
So…
You can take Gramma Nancy out of San Francisco, but…..?
I dare not speak its name.
OK – we’ve figured what Boosh is holding over Nancy.
Time to figure out what he’s got on Dirty Harry.
Oh – nevermind.
W is the most powerful man in the world.
Pelosi is the most powerful woman in this country, possibly the world, because she could impeach the most powerful man in the world.
Need I say more? Power is the most powerful aphrodisiac.
Really they just wanna be there forEVER!
Ding, Ding, Ding.
Thanks VG.
I think we’re going in a similar direction. It’s not just getting the attention of the elected. Truly, those who are benefitting from this already know about the McGuffin. It’s the rest of us, the ones who know they don’t like this, maybe at an emotional or personal or even economic level, but who haven’t the time or energy or plain old skepticism to ask cui bono?
The evil O’Hanlon was a guest on On Point this morning. One of the other people was a Marine Captain Seth Moulton, who has served a couple of tours in Iraq, and who met O’Hanlon on one of his trips to Iraq. Moulton says he is seeing some reconciliation between Sunni and Shi’a, but that there is no sign of political reconciliation. The evil O’Hanlon was disappointed that someone he had to believe said bad things about all that surgey goodness.
If W was an old stinky gargoyle, she would have impeached him by now. She holds the key.
Whoever invented that phrase never dined with hospial administrators.
So I guess this means we should be pulling for Rudy…
Just good friends:
http://www.dahothouse.com/media/friends.jpg
Eli, I assume you mean Donna Edwards. And, I just have to link this YouTube- Edwards vs. Wynn, debate the first time around, bec. I my very own self edited it from what was on YouTube already. Donna is great, Wynn is a fool, and watch Steny’s body language.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO4wbZVwchg
Same thing…he wants W’s power.
Right, but Nancy is probably less likely to succumb to his masculine charms.
That’s what I’m talkin’ about….
Natch. What an easy choice that is, and what an easy choice that should have been in ‘06.
I agree. It is a mental power trip with…a lot of fantasy. I’m not suggesting anything real…but it is a mutual mind…$%&*&$%…nevermind…
Political reconciliation was never in the cards because Iraq is in civil war. Remember the civil war. The media finally got around to talking about it last year and then it seemed to mysteriously go away, except, of course, it never did. All of the political angling going on in Iraq really has to be viewed with this in mind. You have to recognize what a political situation is before you can successfully address it. Petraeus never has.
An insurgency is a completely different animal from a civil war. In an insurgency, reconciliation with the central government is what you are aiming at. In a civil war, you need a peace treaty between the opposing sides. If there is a central government, it’s just part of one of the sides in the conflict. This is the situation in Iraq. Sunnis don’t need to work a deal out with the central government. The Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds need to work out a deal regardless of the central government.
I won’t go through again all the reasons why the “surge” never accomplished any of its military objectives. I will just point out that what Petraeus has been doing in Iraq is a lot like what he did in Iraq in his earlier time there. Remember how he was the golden boy training all those Iraqi troops? He got the credit but the training program went nowhere and it and those trained Iraqis just sort of evaporated. Well, that is what is going to happen to his “surge”. In a few months, Petraeus’ tour will be up. The Joint Chiefs can recognize a self-aggrandizing egomaniac when they meet one. So he will likely be kicked upstairs and out of Iraq, and the temporary and largely illusory progress Pretraeus lays claim to will disappear. Just like before. He will take the credit and be safely gone before everything falls apart.
I didn’t read it as Petraeus saying anothert FU. I read it to say that when the turning point happens, nobody’s gonna know it. But 6 months after that, we’ll know it. How fucked up is that? Any question-every question – he can answer: “Don’t know. We have to wait for that to hapen. Then ask me again 6 months after that. But you won’t be able to tell when that is ’cause we don’t know when the six months started running ’cause we couldn’t tell.” What the hell way is that to run a war? Next time soem knuckelhead tells you about the surge working, mention Petraeus ’s own words – we won’t know until 6 months after it happens.
Good on FDL for the continuing Surge coverage the last few days – I think Siun, PW(?) and Eli. Hope I didn’t gewt anybody wrong or leave anyone out. Let me know and apologies in advance. MSM is giving more play to Thompson going home with his tail betwixt his legs than the war. Keep it up FDL.
This needs to be passed around like a bottle of ripple beneath an underpass, only, with EVERY “Hobo” on the planet taking a pull.
We all knew it, already, but this is the last nail in the coffin. Please pass it on. It’s the last dagger-thrust to the heart of all the bloody bullshit. The kindest cut of all.
http://apnews.myway.com//artic…..A8Q80.html
Any bets that before Bush leaves office, Betrayus gets
A) Another star.
B) Huge medal.
C) A high ranking job with a Defense Contractor.
D) All of the above.
Yeah, that’s pretty much how I read it. He’s simply saying that it’s too soon to tell. We *might* have won, but we can’t call it for another six months. At which point he’ll need *another* six months.
They ever press the fat and chew the flesh at these things?
E)As a reward a night alone with Jeff Gannon.
LOL !!!
… quit clowning around, Mary … *g*
C) A high ranking job with a Defense Contractor.A new peachy-keen job as NATO commander (that a dem president can’t easily undo)and
E) A leg up in 2012.
You mean he’s NOT?!!!1!!
It’s probably that she hasn’t bothered to really look into his eyes/soul. Love is blind and all that.
(spit).
FunnyD
Are you calling me a pus….
I just can’t do it.
Yeah. It’s like the FU never even starts running becaus ewe don’t know when it starts. I’m not a military guy but I can understand perople in cahrge not being able to say “WE’ve won” or even “we’re winning.” But to be in a position where we’ll never know if we’ve turned the corner, until half a year after we’ve turned it just seems like a crazy – impossible – way to run a war. But just perfect for saying “Give it a chance” and avoiding any reviews of how and what we’re doing.
Bwa-ha!
Thanks to punaise, mary, suz, FD -
now I have to make up with the kitty I laughed off my lap….
We are stuck.
Where are we stuck?
Why are we stuck?
Why are we still stuck?
Victory would mean to me….talking about the 100,000 plus private contractors in Iraq. Well, first little inkling of victory…to at least talk about a huge source of tremendous money drain on every one of us who pay taxes.
To me, it seems that corporate media wins by keeping us from talking about the biggest shift in U.S. military history: the privatization of the military.
Surge….let’s talk about surge, but let’s talk about the role of private military contractors in addition to the known amount of traditional military.
What we want as citizens is at contra purposes to the needs and wants of private military contractors like Halliburton.
We need to have this conversation over and over and push our candidates to speak out against this privatization. It’s been disastrous everywhere it’s been tried.
LOL !!!
As a general, he already has 4 stars. He won’t get a 5th. I wouldn’t be surprised about the medal. It likely won’t be the Medal of Freedom because he will still be in the service. Once retired, he will almost certainly sit on a few boards of the military industrial complex. I could see him as a fellow at some of the neocon thinktank and the wingnut welfare circuit, you know where he can give speeches about how he saved Iraq only to have weak kneed Democrats give it all away.
Devikl’s advocate here. What about the thing people are pointing to: our troop deaths are down and civillian deaths are down (not counting the ones we’ve bombed to death)? Is that not attaining a military objective?
Just when you think the bar is too low, Petraeus takes it below grade … what an incredible display of hand puppetry by BushCo …
Yeah. Somebody must have had it.
Creepy.
Petraeus is part of the long-term political plan.
Well, one of the more chilling explanations is that ethnic cleansing has slowed down because there’s no-one left to cleanse. There are no more mixed neighborhoods anymore.
Or maybe after he retires he will find the Lord and join Ted Haggard’s Church of the Redeemed Don’t Ask, Don’t Tellers.
I think that’s pretty much what they call a quagmire. Lotsa reasons why. How do we get out? Dems blew their chance to show some balls in this Congress. Their candidate has to during the general election campaign. Don’t hold your breath.
Great post, Eli.
Now, I hope you don’t mind an inquiry…
A couple of threads back, Jane said,
“We’ll be working with Glenn Greenwald and others to fight against retroactive telecom immunity in the coming days. If you’d like to receive updates about what you can do, sign up here.”
I clicked on the link, but it did not work.
Does anybody have a good link to sign up for this effort?
… and that both are being paid NOT to kill U.S. soldiers …
No doubt that was always the design, but as they say in Oz, ‘not too bloody likely’!. If any gasoline ever gets out of there it is going to be the most expensive petrol ever minded, and that’s not even counting the unmeasurable value of the dead and wounded it cost to get it.
True. And from these ethically clean neighborhoods/towns/regions will come “bottom up” reconcilliation resulting in a unity government. Makes sense, no?
Cleansing has moved to the provinces. And the attacks are now also even more focused on the educated and women, as well as different political/ethnic groups. 2 teachers were kidnapped today. A suicide bomber injured 22 at a school today (including women teachers), and the violence against women in Basra…..
That should have been … and that both sides are being paid NOT to kill U.S. soldiers …
Yeah. Me too. What is?
Well, yeah, that’s the most important thing. I don’t think most Americans really care all that much when Iraqis shoot each other.
The surge is working because all of the terrible violence that occurred before the surge that we were told to ignore was really actually awful and a civil war and horribly bloody.
It is Mission Accomplished 2.0. Lie and lie and lie and lie long enough for circumstances to change and then point back at the previous circumstances or potential future circumstances and shriek about how bad things were or could be.
-G
Try this.
I’ll send up a flare to the admin types.
We’re paying people on both sides, right? Now the Shia’s are the ones, we say, getting explosives and weaponry from Iran, right? Think the Iranians are taking our money in exhange for providing bombs? Botom line, we’d be funding people to blow up our soldiers. No?
This is Greenwald’s piece on FISA.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html
referring to Jane’s post on pressuring Edwards to actually lead, and put the complicit, comprimised, DLC frontrunners on the spot, DownWithTyranny asks:
so, since voting is such a sacrament in mainstream civic religion, don’t waste yours if the (D)’s nominate a neo-con shill.
Would it have helped those women if more Brits were around?
Thanks, Eli. That worked.
Yes. Meanwhile, spread the chaos outward. Let the masses focus on the McGuffin. Having primed them to believe that there’s a long history of violence there anyway, arm both sides and get out of the way. Let folks like McCain make statements that he and other Americans don’t care if Iraqis kill each other if they’re not killing Americans and keep on plundering….
“and that both sides are being paid NOT to kill U.S. soldiers …”
Bada Bing.
Paid when they want them to kill and paid when they don’t want them to kill.
Wow.
Maybe that is the bottom line of all of this…
Pay Atta $100,000 ..via Pakistan…to what bank was that again? Who ran the bank?
Pay warlords somewhere via…missing billions..drug money…
Kill, don’t kill. Now, not now.
Hmmmmm….
Was being helpful ever actually the goal? (Obviously, I mean, at the top. I’m sure the folks on the ground cared a great deal.)
Yeah, Eli. What neurophius said.
There was the dreadful talking point that was used by the same people that used to repeat: One US life isn’t worth a 1,000 Iraqi lives.
That talking point was: If we leave there will be chaos and bloodshed! The poor Iraqi people!
The same people that laughed about Abu Ghraib as a frat prank and claimed that any focus on US acts or war crimes was an outrage.
America is terminally ill methinks.
-G
Now we have NATO pushing for first strike nuclear attacks. Betcha that’ll make the Russians feel warm and fuzzy.
I’m askin’. I dunno. Were women experiencing the same thing whe all the Brits were in Basra. if so, then they didn’t help. If not, then I would think they helped.
Well, considering that it was not the goal at the start, I would say Hell to the no.
A) Was this the reason we invaded Iraq, spent $600 billion, got several hundred thousand Iraqis killed, turned a few million more into refugees, an had 4000 American soldiers die? Just so that casualty rates declined for a few months?
B) The jihadi vs Sunni tribal conflict predated the surge as did the moves to the Anbar truce. The surge, in fact, intended to de-emphasize operations in Anbar in order to use “surge” forces to maximize control in Baghdad. This too did not happen. Rather ethnic cleansing continued and it was this that eventually led to less violence in Baghdad. The ethnic cleansing was successful. Meanwhile the Shia Mahdi Army also entered into a truce with us. They saw no point in weakening themselves in a conflict with us. Rather they wished to bide their time and strengthen themselves for the resumption of the conflict with the Sunnis. Finally, the US military under Petraeus moved away from large sweeps which produced many casualties in favor of more air strikes.
So to recap briefly:
1. The Anbar truce
2. Ethnic cleansing and larg scale displacement of civilian populations
3. The Mahdi Army truce
4. Changed US military operations
These are the 4 things which have resulted in the current decrease in Iraqi and US casualties. I would point out that the Sunni and Shia truces could fall apart at anytime. And until the effects of ethnic cleansing have been dealt with, the likelihood of those truces holding is not good in the long term.
Emptywheel has her timelines, and Hugh has his lists.
Nicely summed up, Hugh.
Other than the Ethnic Cleansing Accomplished, those all sound like band-aids on a leaky firehose.
Re:
Sure. Anybody giving me a hug gets a chaw of beef jerky.
It’s become SOP for MSM now to cluck that “the surge is working.” They’re obvivious to both the unstated purpose of keeping troops there for a long time, and for the stated and failed objective to obtain enough stability for political progress. There has been little if any polirical progress and the new law replete with tons of loopholds to allow Sunis to have some selected jobs, is hardly an example of progress.
You know, in case no one’s already pointed it out, between that quote and the Bush hug, the media campaign against a McCain nomination is nearly complete already.
For some serious cognitive dissonannce, read this linked piece that was op-eded in the Manchester Union Leader.
My Iraqi Adviser Says Don’t Leave.
-G
Thanks. Excellent point about the bombing. Siun had something about that the other day. I still don’t get why we needed 30,000 combat troops to bomb the piss out of people. Also, about the Mahdi’s biding their time…… Again, not a military guy, but it seems to me that since the earlist days of the war when we had a relartively easy time getting to Bahgdad, people in Iraq who want to kill our guys have been playing cat and mouse and biding their time. Is there really anything to do about that? I mean, that could go on….. 100 years, no?
But Darth Cheney says Atta was meeting with Iraqis in Prague. So Darth should tell us who paid for Atta’s travel expenses.
What has our nosey, spying government found about the money and bank that Atta used?
Baathist Iraq (under Sadaam) was (viciously) secular – as evil as Sadaam was, under his rule women could (and did) purssue advanced degrees and careers.
During the British occupation of Basra, this gender “tolerance” (is it ever equality?) was wholly destroyed as Shia religious rule replaced secular authority.
Robert Fisk and other observers have been writing about this aspect of the war crime and crime against humanity that is our invasion in Iraq for – say – four years now.
May I humbly go on record that Generul ‘Betrayus’ is the most complete disgrace to his uniform since Benedict Arnold.
I submit that no American soldier has given the aid and comfort to the enemy that this man has given the insurgency in Iraq by instituting a military strategy which he knows, read his books folks, will not work at the cost of untold Iraqi lives as well as the mounting cost in dead and maimed Americans solely to secure approval for himself, as an individual, from a man much of the world considers a war criminal and the rest consider a cretin.
The good General would, in a just rational world be escorted to the wall at dawn and summarily shot.
Dead.
Which is what his ’surge’ and George W. Bush’s legacy are already.
If I did believe in god I’d pray to see that take place.
As it is I’ll do what I can to make that just ending a reality for the General.
Seems there has been a shift of stratergy..
you see a roach…then you see babies…then you see egg sacs…more babies…so you go massive…kind of like when you have millions of cockroaches in your apartment in, say, NYC…finally, you bomb the apartment with really toxic substances…you leave to stay safe…but you come back…all roaches apparently gone….
But…you are in an illusion…you live in a building…many stories high…they are in the walls…and they come back….so you bomb them again… and repeat, and repeat, for years…for ev..er.
This is how these people think. That is how they treat people – like roaches.
History repeats itself….
One of the vile neo-con solons was postulating early on about how we didn’t eradicate enough Sunnis.
Now they are touting the relationships with the folks that they had wished genocide upon.
Sick.
-G
But, General Betray-us only “lost” 190,000 weapons to the “Insurgents”. Maybe he wanted to make it a more fair fight.
Thanks for the link.
The author says:
I didn’t duck the obvious.
Straight talk!!!! Love it. He goes on to say:
We must take this opportunity to correct the flawed government we put in place. We cannot afford to use hope as a method. Success in Iraq is not possible without a revised constitution (as detailed by the Iraqi scholar Kanan Makiya). Only a strong central government can control the ambitions of regional politicians and ward off civil war.
Ain’t gonna happen. For somebody who doesn’t duck the obvious, that should have been pretty obvious. And about this “ward off civil war” stuff. This chowderhead was in the middle of a civil war and didn’t seem to notice. I guess his Iraqi adviser didn’t tell him that.
And finally, a little about the author:
Nate Slate, a recently retired Army colonel, works for a defense contractor.
Nice.
Petraeus is arming, training, and funding both sides of the Iraqi civil war. Perhaps we are simply patrons of the military arts, maximizing the lethality of both sides. Or, Bush and Petraeus are trying to make the consequences of our withdrawal too horrible to contemplate. Another great idea from the party of ideas.
Greg, apropos the cog. dissonance link. The source is a contractor….But, even overlooking that, folks I know in Iraq–some Sunni, some Shiia, have commented that–blood bath or no, U.S. have to leave. It is an illusion–I think–to imagine that there is ANY thing we can do that will make matters better. We are robbing them and pillaging and raping and arming and ruining and poisoning them. And those of us who care and wish to fix it will not be able to, because there is no will or intent to do so from those in charge, there or here. The best we can do is draw attention to this fact to those who don’t realize it, vote as many of these bastards out as possible, and start our own process of national inventory and reconciliation.
If someone who held down so she could be gangraped later gave her back her clothes and a ride home could be considered to have “helped”, the answer would be yes.
Whatever the valor and ethics of UK forces (the latter quality tending to greatly exceed that of US combat forces), “the British” – in the per5son of their elected Prime Minister and his senior Cabinet Officers, initel chiefs, and military brass – were wholly aware that BUsh wanted the IRaq War because he wanted the Iraq War.
(see “Downing Street Memos” at Internationalclearighouse (domain = .info)
Blair and the senior Brits kept secret the fact he entire Iraq inivasion was (and is) a violaiton of International Law – a violation for which German and Japanese leaders were executed after WWII.
“The British” were and are complicit in an act of pre-emptive war. “The British” were and are directly responsible for the destruction of Iraqi civil adminsitration, the looting of Iraq’s antiquities, the destuction of Iraq’s extensive health care system, and the slow starvation of Iraq’s civilian population. Through their complicity in the post-occupation privation and deaths of hundreds of thoussands of Iraqi civilians, “The British” are yet again in breach of their obligations as an Occupying Power under International Law.
Poor British – so many obligations to “help”. So fortunate for our sorry planet they’ve let Americans pick up the greatest share of the White Man’s Burden.
We’re much more efficient killers.
I can’t remember who it was who likened the desire to stay there in order to ‘fix’ things to a rapist helping the victim recover.
-G
Exactly! And, per the contrapositive, no strong central government implies no success in Iraq. But, there is no reasonable prospect of a strong central government in Iraq despite our best efforts. So, by modus ponens, there will be no success in Iraq, i.e., we have been defeated in Iraq. Q.E.D.
I agree about the cognitive dissonance. There is a complete failure to draw any conclusions from the facts that are staring him in the face. You see this a lot on the Right. They buy into a narrative and once that happens no many how many facts you produce they never give it up.
Ian Welsh had a good post today at the agonist. The USA and insanity.
Yeah, apparently the man who wrote that piece doesn’t see the absolute absurdity of talking about helping his Iraq friend leave Iraq in the very first sentence and then using that friend to make the guilt laden reason for the US stating in Iraq.
It is mind boggling.
-G
Rape, pillage, and plunder is dirty work, but somebody’s got to step up to the task. And who but the White Man to step forward to accomplish that dirty deed?
For instance, does it occur to these anti-Muslim zealots that the schools in Iraq that they boast about being built every day are Muslim schools?
-G
I’ve made that analogy more than once, but it’s so obvious that I’m sure others have made it too.
The problem with hanging around in Iraq to win is that there’s nothing to win. No national interest of the U.S.A. is at stake, unless we want to steal their oil. And if getting their oil at the lowest possile price, let’s say so and look at the bottom line. But, nobody ever does that.
After all, wouldn’t want to all the English-speaking folks’ experience exterminating the locals go to waste, would one?
Our Pilgrim Fathers came to set an example and by gum we’ve stuck to it – though the BIA was a tad slow eradicating the cultures.
Oh well – diabetes will finish the task.
Tally Ho!