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Edwards is on offense tonight, joining Clinton to tag team Obama. Edwards has had almost no time.
Obama: "I feel bad for you, John…"
Edwards: "You don’t feel that bad…"
Hillary went after Obama for voting with the credit card companies on interest limits, Obama said he did so because 30% was too high, Edwards laughed and said now there were no limits — how was that better?
Hillary then went after Obama for his "present" votes in the Illinois legislature. Obama defended himself by saying it was a way to support a bill he had technical problems with, and Edwards said Obama had criticized him for taking bad votes — would it just have been better if he’d acted for political opportunity and just didn’t take tough votes?
Thank gawd for the CNN audience meter.
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- The Big Myth: “Reconciliation Won’t Work for Health Reform”
- Public Option Much More Popular than Senate Bill – So Obama Pushes Senate Bill Without Public Option
- Bernie Sanders Contradicts Obama, Says Senate Does Have 50 Votes for Public Option
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Wolfie now saying “No Rules” rules.
dem mosh pit!!!111
there were rules?
HULKAMANIA!
Clinton is going to block the Presidential Records so Bush et al skate away to keep those records safe for the Clintons and Bush! Say it aint so and have the candidates promise on the policy of Presidential Records (and missing emails)!
dem rules, dems are cool, we want dems in our schools!
I hope the just bring out a cage and allow it be a fight to the death.
The candidates are backstage picking up their Nerf bats so they can whack each other upside the head in between sentences.
Wolf says in-depth coverage after the debate.
Hi Jane.
Late to the toobz, but been listening to the “debate”. gawdIhate the audience participation aspect of some of these.
Stopped what I was doing to listen to Rudy yestidie. Wanted to run for cover, or at least earmuffs, immediately.
All of these guys better than ANY repubble, hands down.
that’s code for “ignore Edwards”…
We’re on Live Debate Thread #2 now! You people are fast. LOL
Mitt Romney is one hep-cat.
-G
Edwards is the best of the three by a long shot. Unlike Barak and Clinton he articulates his positions clearly. His positions are better than the other two.
Rules? They are going to call 30 minutes the Obama 30 seconds.
I can say that after seeing this much of the debate: I look upon Senators Clinton and Obama equally favorably as to becoming the next president.
Lahoma has finally made a comment on this debate. She says “I like Edwards”. And I agree.
Main themes: Clinton trying to paint Obama as someone evading responsibility, for votes, for statements, for details that matter.
Obama trying to paint Clinton as “the Clintons” who can’t be trusted to be honest.
No one thinks Edwards is a threat, so he gets a free pass; it’s probably too late for him to benefit much from trying to rise above it all.
Who do you all think is winning the debates with any notes on impact on upcoming SC primary?
I am thinking:
1. Edwards
2. Clinton
3. Obama
Both Clinton and Obama are getting hits in most of the time, but I think Clinton might have a few more tactical ways of getting points and had a bigger attack planned as well as some follow-ups such as on a few of new Edwards follow-ups (Clinton also had more material for them). Don’t know about ground game in SC.
lol, thats a flat out joke
So far I would grade the debate as folows:
Edwards A-
Clinton B tone it down
Obama C+ sharpen it up
I also like that Edwards.
yeah, H&O is the neoliberal express
Blitzer: black, black, black, black.
Wolf just may have asked the worst question of the debate about Rangel. Obama’s quip about John Edwards was good.
Main themes: Clinton trying to paint Obama as someone evading responsibility, for votes, for statements, for details that matter.
Obama trying to paint Clinton as “the Clintons” who can’t be trusted to be honest.
No one thinkgs Edwards a threat, so he gets a free pass; it’s probably too late for him to benefit much from trying to rise above it all.
–
I think they have written him off and wanted to slash their opponent and let Edwards “win” even though it won’t do him any good. Then maybe they carry the day in the slash and boxing attack and send down both at the same time. Clinton seems more ready to knock heads in this case.
Two debates going on, one on details of policy, in which Hillary doing much better than Obama; the other on who can be trusted, where the two leaders are hacking each other up and it may hurt both.
Interesting to see Edwards go to the explicit “combat troops” rather than “all troops” … this is an important distinction since “combat troops” are less than 50% of the troops in Iraq. None of them have a good position …
Hillary is the least clear and has plans that leave the most the longest.
So far I would grade the debate as folows:
Edwards A-
Clinton B tone it down
Obama C+ sharpen it up
agree
Blitzer: Charlie Wrangel supports Hillary and says African Americans should vote for who is best for the country not who feels good to vote for.
Sounds like he is endorsing Edwards.
I’d like to see a question about public financing of elections. I won’t hold my breath, though.
Suzanna: black, blacks, black, blacks.
Ah, its the old pushing all issue and policy of the Presidency out of the way and vote on race and gender part of the debate; seems to be spawning the greater debate again as the Dems have great candidates and best party. I like the Edwards answer saying this is alright – since it is as anyone can vote for the reason of their very own choice.
Sounds like the meme – Israel hearts Clinton.
it would be interesting if Edwards got heavily rewarded on Saturday in SC… don’t think it will happen but it would certainly make for an interesting race…
Blitzer: How does it feel to be black if you aren’t MLK? Obama? Hillary? John?
Yeah…. right hillary. The core cause seems to depend on which way the wind blows……. arrrrrrgh
Oh, Obama did get in the Clinton corporate lawyer for Walmart – which most people do not know. Gonna have to tune in closer now.
Rangel’s endorsed Clinton.
Damn…figures I pick a “reality check” time. Better be better than the other trips into “reality”.
yup, all three stances begs the question on how much air power will be used prior to and after troops are out.
But what have you done for us lately, hillary? Huh???? What were you doing in the senate?
Ack. Clinton drop the “reality check.” It comes off as patronizing.
Chocolate Rain
Rangel is from NYC and Hill is NY’s Senator. It follows.
That’s really nice Hill, then why are you a warmonger who seems to approve of spying on US citizens?
Obama – you can always tell when he’s going to slam someone… “well, this is very good John! BUT….!”
Did you see this today?
http://www.bbvforums.org/forum…..1200932583
Unfreakingbelievable.
HRC mentions that she is a strong advocate of ending child poverty. This is a very important issue for Lahoma and I. Education is the key in the fight against poorness. We feel.
Except she wasn’t…She was the first woman on the Wal-Mart board
I know. I was being snarky.
If combat troops are out of Iraq then all the support troops will have to come out as well. Edwards’ position is all troops out except what needed to guard the embassy.
LOL…he’s really good at it.
Thankyou. I will take a look after the debate. ;0)
Obama preach style irritates.
After 7+ years, it is jarring to hear 3 people disagree while speaking in complete paragraphs of coherent sentences.
I can stand it. Just fine.
OKK – I like her work with children and her plan on education.
I have the strangest feeling that Hillary and John are really backing Obama…just occurred to me. They attack, but they are proud of him at the same time. He is exactly what they have always fought for.
Great response from Obama on race.
This is my repeated criticism of both Obama and Clinton. As Senators they can show leadership right now. Instead they are out campaigning making speeches about leadership.
Jeez – that is scary. And only Clinton’s folks were there?
BAM! Edwards puts down O’Liely.
Edwards speaking on homelessness, vets and poverty…
Asian markets are in the tank for 5% losses all around.
Don’t be worried about the US markets tomorrow, they’ll need to drop further to catch up because of the holiday!
-G
Edwards sounding the most like MLK tonight.
The three are absolute geniuses by comparison to the Bicycle Dunce.
Awwww F*k. “the first black president”. OMG
I missed it! What he say about Billo?
more, “black, black, black – was Bill our first black president?”
Edwards just made a moving comment about a single parent who had to tell her kids not to tell anyone at school that they had to sleep in jackets under many layers of blankets because they couldn’t afford heat.
Yep. Scaaaaaaaaaaaaaaary. What was really mind boggling is the use of “Post-It” like labels to “secure” these boxes. Can you believe that? Sad.
Man, Obama likes to make fun of people with little put downs it seems. Tsk Tsk tsk.
I actually think Obama is doing really well under the double hammer. He’s being gracious and funny.
He said its a fight I would like to have. And that all paying attention in audience had seems the comments of 200,000 homeless vets (Edwards) and O’Rielly calling him a liar, etc.
Ha ha!
Obama giving a pretty cute answer about Bill being the first black president… first time I’ve seen Hillary smile tonight.
They are gonna have to shut it down and/or drop the interest rate by a big number, don’t you think….
Very good! ;0)
Yes because we don’t won’t to go drag the country though this, It bothered me the 1st time but it’s business as usual. The new boss is the same as the old one. We can only hope this isn’t true, Sure right.
He needs to be careful – I think every time he smacks Hillary 5 more women decide to vote for her.
Clinton is making a good point on the diversity of the Democratic Party.
When Edwards told the story about the woman who chose between rent and heat — I wish he had said:
So it’s a trap to think in dividing lines of color or gender when the real dividing line in America is between the people who are secure and the people who live in poverty’s fear.
Obama handled the Bill as black president very well … esp given what he’d probably like to say these days
I actually think Obama is doing really well under the double hammer. He’s being gracious and funny.
–
He is doing good and got in the hit on Walmart corporate lawyer for Clinton. And some other great things. It seems a small quirk that he is in fact putting down his opponents ever know and then (”your likeable enough”, “…and John”, “no, this time I really do”). All of them are doing very well, of course all have little problems as well (just teeny tiny ones).
The fundamentalsh are shtrawng!
-The Economic Decider
Oh goody! LOL! The DOW is down 9%. We’re catching up! I think. *shudder*
good – Hillary tossing it back on Bush and explaining why they are fighting…
good point.
Barack being arrogant again.
so glad Obama raises the criminal ‘justice’ issue …. wish that was addressed more and it is something he worked on in IL … good turn for the discussion
And also the need for one of them there on the stage to fix the damage that Bush has wrought on the country.
Das
reichright.Obama makes the point that racism remains very real in America. Good for you Senator!
Good response by Clinton – white women at ~ 77 cents and african american women at 67 cents to the dollar. Sad.
Obama had a good response as well.
Edwards needs to just speak up.
Wow, this sounds just like the Puke debates…not.
I think they must have had a little meeting in the back during the break… they are back to fighting the Rs…
You know, we complained about Kerry not being a fighter. I want a fighter.
We would complain if she didn’t fight. At least, I would.
This is awesome – Edwards last stand.
OOoohh. Hitting Bill for his big mouth! Another prepared set piece.
I think all three are fighters, as shown here! And, I don’t think we will see any of them in SpandeX or windsurfing.
They just asked Hillary if Bill should STFU.
Hillary overshadowed by Bill? They asked the same question when he ran!
To me, what Edwards means when he says “combat troops” he means troops looking for trouble. We have to have troops there to protect our embassies, etc.
I’m liking this debate. I like that they’re talking about civil rights and equal pay for women and opportunity for all like they’re Democratic values in a way that we haven’t heard before. Maybe that’s because it’s narrowed down to three candidates and their personal experience is coming to the fore.
Senator Clinton makes the very good point on how many women get paid less than men for the same work. My mother and grandmother worked hard all their lives and almost always for less money for the same jobs men held. Good on you Senator!
I’m glad they all know how to fight… I want that in my president…
When are these clowns gonna talk about real issues like the Mexican invasion, the right to fly the rebel falg, the creeping homersexchuls, the Al Kader types running the Citgo station and the flag burnin’ hippies destroyin’ our colleges?
-Redstate Asshat
She just contradicted herself: it’s about us v. it’s not about us but you.
Hillary on Bill being overprotective and belligerent.
Fair to say, who would be the best president. Who can withstand the republicans? What the future holds. My voice is their voice. Politics is not a game. We’ve seen over the last seven years what happens when a president doesn’t care.
The last 10 minutes have been fairly good. Before that, not so much. Hillary hitting the experience meme.
LOLLLLLLOOOLLLLLLOL
Well, I’m a big Edwards fan and it kills me how much he is being marginalized . In part though I think it is his own doing. He needs to put more “closers” in. He is awesome at saying: This is what is wrong. But he needs to go on to say: And I’m the only one here who is committed and capable of fixing it. HC is very good at that and she is kicking butt from what I can see as a result of this.
Clinton points out that Bush is not concerned with real life struggles. Bush has never had to struggle for anything.
Another idiot horse race tactics question, IMHO. Is Big Dawg too big. Who fricken cares? Should not allow these celebrity fools to run the debates. Candidates responding free form to audience questions would be better, and more serious. Been listening, but some of the moderator questions so awful, I tune out for awhile.
They could wake up Thompson and aks him.
OT, but why is Bill in Nashville, also live at CNN, while Hillary is debating? Sorry, if this has been asked before, but I missed the answer.
Tell me the plan Obama… here comes the map.
NY Stock Exchange circuit breaker rules for 2008 Q1:
http://www.nyse.com/press/circuit_breakers.html
I still think Clinton and Obama may have to be running mates for the good of the party.
I agree. I am thinking that Edwards’s positions have forced Clinton and Obama (less than Clinton) to espouse more progressive ideas. That is a very good thing.
Bah, don’t really go for it. The Dems should take the Presidency anyway – its the right one that we need to choose.
This is so untrue. Take pretzels for instance.
I’m sorry; I’m just not impressed with Obama. And I don’t care who he is (or anyone else for that matter) attempting to co-opt any from MLK, Jr. He’s not in the same league as MKL, Jr., nor has demonstrated a record worthy of such co-opting. Granted he is a fine orator – at times.
How can he get a working majority when Clinton seems to be cleaning up with Democrats, Latinos, women, working class voters, the elderly…
Obama has: the wealthy, young people, blacks…
I really think it would be a whole lot better for Hillary if Bill laid back a bit and was less visible … it decreases her role as worthy herself instead of as his wife and I think that hurts her overall.
Don’t forget the right to torture arabs/persians. The right to screw new orleaneans, and the right to spy on everyone’s phone and internet activities.
Obama refused to take bait on Bill.
It may have been difficult at times inserting a f*recracker in a frog’s an*s.
Or, remember him trying to get out that door in China?
Geeze, why aren’t these guys focusing on the economic crisis being a result of total regulatory-supervision failure.
If the bloody loan originators, bond insurance companies, banks, brokerage houses, or the hedge-funds had done due diligence and underwritten the fundamental underlying transactions, we wouldn’t be here.
Worlds biggest circle-jerk. They were all “blindly” relying on each other, while they raked in the cash.
That’s what the candidates should be talking about tonight – the price of a republican administration’s failure to regulate. We need to get ahead of the admin on this.
They’re circling their prey?
Why is it people are so much more reasonable sitting down as opposed to standing?
Hard work.
That’s with.
kiddo said for.
Edwards asserting that he can best beat McCain in general.
Did they just applaud JE or boo him?
I honestly think that is/will change. Remember before Iowa, people didn’t even think he would be coming in third. Most blacks were against him not so long ago.
I also agree. Edwards has repeatedly forced substance into campaign. And recently gave good lesson in how to aggressively call out the media, also.
Regarding GregB:any one of these Democratic folks promised to go right up to gates of Hell (and past!) in order to destroy an evil-doer yet? Could be a sign of weakness.
Sunny – they covered that pretty heavily in the first half.
Might end up working in his favor. The debate season has been so long that, at least for me, I’m gtting sick of seeing hillary and obama.
Edwards brings up the fact that the polls show he does best against the probable Republican nominee St John McCain
Yup. And the MSM really eats up clobbering him. Anybody know if he is drinking now. Seeing his red face, anger… makes me wonder.
Maybe because by sitting down it’s the same as putting a hand over their mouth? LOL Just kidding. I think it’s the full moon tonight… ;-)
Pronouncing polysyllabic words.
We are Edwards fans. But we will unite around whoever the Democratic Party nominates to become the next president.
Is it just me or am I seeing Edwards topping 70% of audience every time he talks! Clinton gets close but when Obama speaks it is snoozeville.
Can’t wait for Larry King to tell me who won!
topping 70% of the audience? What does that mean?
I’m a fan of Edwards and in fact at our caucus on the 2nd, pretty sure I’m going with him.
But you also remember Bush during the debate with his “bulge” on his back and blowing most every question. Strange thing debates.
Even making step to define the democrats
On the audience meter at cnn.com.
Clinton, “if it is McCain, I am the one to take him on on Nat’l security issues”
I don’t know if it’s the absolute best tactic for them to be anointing McCain.
They should’ve agreed to call Fred Thompson inevitable.
Obama talking about the importance of going after the evangelical vote. Me? I think it is more important to go after the Democratic vote and then invite the evangelicals along if they want to. I don’t believe n dumping the base for them though.
Hillary saying she can go head-to-head with McCain on national security and that she has a lot of experience battling Republicans and surviving.
O/T- but in the spirit of the day:
“Let us turn our thoughts today
To Martin Luther King,
And recognize that there are ties between us,
All men and women
Living on the earth,
Ties of hope and love,
Sister and brotherhood.
That we are bound together
In our desire to see the world become
A place in which our children
Can grow free and strong,
We are bound together
By the task that stands before us,
And the road that lies ahead.
We are bound and we are bound…”
It would be delicious to shove Senator Clinton down the throats of Cheney, Rove and Bush.
It’ll all be over before we know it in a few weeks, and we’ll have a nominee to rally behind (or not rally behind).
Either way, I’m looking forward to Blue America races taking center stage again.
No disrespect intended toward your choice of the candidates, but if Hillary is the nominee, we want pictures of you on election day.
I know there’s this big thing about the privacy of the voting booth and all, but if you’re going to pull the level for HRC, you owe it to your friends at the Lake to share the historic moment with us all.
*g*
Hillary getting sick of Edwards knocking her on lobbiests.
agreed
Hillary says she is the candidate to beat McCain and a National Security Platform.
While following another debate thread on TX based site, there is a marked negative reaction to HRC in this debate from those who self identify as either progressive, Dem, or Ind. Edwards getting props at the same time.
Yes! Run on a progressive Democratic platform, and if various types of wackaloons want to set aside their loony ideas, they are welcome to join in. But no pandering!
Get her Edwards!
Strategically if EITHER Romney or McCain gets the nod, the Evangels will not come out in support of them. Romney because his religion a “cult”, McCain because of McCain Feingold (I think)
Man, you would think the Dems could get together on campaign finance. I hate this.
LOL! :)
Edwards skewers Hillary on whether she will have lobbyists in her White House. She turns around and attacks him on trial lawyers. He says they are for jury trials, not pushing for their agendas.
I keep worrying about a Bu’ush false flag hole card.
Clinton FUCKED up.
HRC says she supports public financing of elections. Very good Senator!
Nothing new in what he said. He also has excluded those two brigades (approximate 3-4000 troops) that are going to defend the embassy…as well as “about 500 troops to defend reconstruction projects”. Then he also says that he’s gonna have Rapid Response brigades just across the border in Kuwait to attack “terrorists” and prevent a Civil War.
So…no permanent bases and no combat troops…except we’re gonna be going back into Iraq to take on Al Qaida or step in between Sunni and Shiite militias? What bullsh*t. Those “Rapid Response” troops and the brigades will soon be back involved in a full-scale fight. That’s NOT a withdrawal.
You guys can’t see through the code, it seems. Edwards is NOT going to get us out of Iraq!
wow, clinton just did the most roundabout obfuscation of the corporate lobbyist question that edwards called her out on.. “i am for public financing”, except when i’m running…
Just watching….the best ticket – though I wouldn’t be happy would be HRC and Barack.
You guys can’t see through the code, it seems. Edwards is NOT going to get us out of Iraq!
______
I don’t think any of the electable candidates will actually do so.
Edwards even approached right to trial.
Obama has been rambling, while Edwards and Clinton much more focused.
Obama picking up something I had been wondering. He saw that Clinton was kind of saying she is the closest to the R’s (you could argue) on “national security”. Edwards went in the opposite route and lost part of a point on that response. He got more on corporate lobby and I wish we could get Ken Lay out of writting policy and even the law.
All three are suckers for A*P*C…and I don’t mean alpacas!
Dear god, I would love to see an Obama/Edwards ticket or an Edwards/Obama ticket.
Oh wow! Edwards going all Ron Paul.
Maybe he is telling the truth & enlightened.
Hmm. My feeling was Clinton and Edwards.
BobbyG … that’s how I read it. It’s just irritating that Edwards made a big splash a while back about getting out and has now gone back to the position he’s held all along … irritating.
I totally disagree!
Edwards has spoken eloquently more than once tonight about ending poverty and economic inequity.
OT – oh no Tom Brady is in a foot cast :-(
although getting ALL troops is the goal, the “no permanent bases” pledge is extremely important- i don’t think any other candidate left (except kucinich), proposes that. so call bullshit all you want, but he’s still the best there is.
That whole “get out of Iraq” thing is SO 3rd-rail, w/respect to how they fear the Repu’blicists will play them on it.
Well – watching this, I want Edwards/Obama.
for that alone I wouldn’t mind a clinton president
so long as she wins, they will be able to galvanize the most anti dem votes against her and a black man
not only is edwards the best candidate with an actual progressive platform, he is the only one they won’t be able to galvanize the base against
If we are going to have an embassy in Baghdad it will have to be defended. Iraq being what it is that could be one to two thousand troops. It is a very large embassy and troops are not on duty 24/7.
As for troops in Kuwait, no one ever said we should pull out of the Gulf, something that could be highly destabilizing. Last I looked Kuwait is not Iraq. Indeed what Edwards is suggesting is very similar to Murtha’s plan.
Tom Brady of the NE Pats?
None of these people have promised to kill the Al Kider monster under my bed!
No one will triple Guantanimo.
No one will dig up Saddam and kill him again.
-G
I thought they all sounded like Democrats tonight… that pleases me.
Edwards is going to attempt to remove the impression that we are “occupying” Iraq but it is obviously to late for that with super perm bases there.
In the last debate the D’s handed Bush a cowboy up challange to go to war with Pakistan and it was obv that he was going to get some war brewing on his trip so the D’s don’t out do him.
Yes. Grrr
I’m glad you followed that up with alpacas :)
I guess, for now, a soft power approach is better until we can refocus policy away from the middle east.
We remain in the Edwards corner. This was a good debate. ;0)
What, what, what?
-G
I seem to recall that Edwards was a Senator for six years. Yet I don’t recall him championing very much of what he did as a Senator? The Bankruptcy Bill? C’mon!
I liked it, too.
and I don’t mean alpacas!
it’s the fleeced they could do!
OT – oh no Tom Brady is in a foot cast :-(
–
Don’t worry, he will be going 19-0. Pats are just launching castGate to game the injury list as did the Chargers. The cast is a fake!
Not true. Around 70% of Americans still back us getting out of Iraq. That is a club that Democrats should be beating the Republicans with not the other way around.
I am for John Edwards.
Lahoma.
Anderson Pooper Scooper up next. Can’t watch him. Kryptonite to logical thought.
Yes, just saw it on the teevee. He was limping after the last game.
Oh, and his foot needs rest so he is doing Moss a favor by adding a story to the mix! Hope he is OK and everyone plays for both teams.
But you need for him to tell you who won, don’t you?
I think it is going to be impossible to know who is really going to do what with Iraq. Their statements have to be so carefully parsed in order to avoid vulnerability down the road in the campaign. Of the three of them I trust JE the most just because he went out on this issue long before either of the other two realized they had to sound like they were favoring withdrawal. But who the fuck really knows what they will do in the end on this.
Still for Edwards. What’s a guy got to do to win a primary? He wins every debate. He’s campaigning like a trooper. Why can’t he win one?
ILY – promise?!
I agree in part, but my point is that there are things that Clinton and Obama as currently serving Senators could do now on FISA, Iraq, and the economy.
Hear, Hear! I agree.
Yeah, wow, there’re a half dozen news citations on it. Wow.
Disinfo campaign?
Cinnamonpape – you might find this useful – Haaretz rating of the candidates based on who will be best for Israel:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/p…..Page.jhtml
Hillary ranks #2 between Giuliani and McCain while Edwards is down the list and Obama gets the lowest “Israel friendly” rating.
Thanks OC. Thought they were just focused on what they were going to do to help homeowners in jeopardy.
This is such a redmeat bs list. For god’s sake Guillani is no. 1 on it. All this means is people looked at who was screaming the most. And remember Obama wasn’t even considered a viable candidate not so long ago.
3-5000 F*cking troops to protect the embassy! The damn embassy is gionna be a PERMANENT BASE! Then there’s his hare-brained idea of putting several divisions of shock-troops just “over the horizon”. Ooooooh! Those aren’t gonna be “combat troops”???? A Rapid Response force…armed with Tasers, I guess.
Don’t tase me bro Edwards!
I am for Lahoma.
Mary
Edwards/Clinton 2008!
When did CNN hire Lyndsay Lohan as a news anchor? Good move!
Richmond – the ratings are updated monthly … and does reflect pretty closely the comments each has made.
(Get us out of Iraq.)
ELECTABLE CANDIDATES? What fuckery is that?
Dennis Kucinich has won 10 elections. He is, ipso facto, ELECTABLE. All he needs is for real progressives, who really want to get us out of Iraq – where we should not be to begin with – to vote for him. To vote for a candidate deemed by the media to be electable, if that candidate is not the best progressive candidate, is to waste a vote.
Letting the mainstream media choose your candidate is even worse than being stuck with what the conventions pick or what the electoral college produces.
That is just silly. As is the idea that pulling all of our troops out of the Middle East is suddenly going to solve all of its problems. A withdrawal from the Gulf would produce a power vacuum in one of the most important regions in the world, one through which a quarter of the oil passes through. It would be highly destabilizing.
“deemed by the media“?
I don’t take my voting orders from the media.
Kucinich is “electable” to the Presidency to the extent he can get a majority of the votes. Absent that, the virtues of his positions don’t count for much.
The virtues of a candidate’s position should count for everything. It’s still early days in this election cycle. But, if even progressives think “the virtues of his positions don’t count for much” then maybe we do have the
government we deserve…and that’s what we will continue to get. Don’t act surprised.
Definitely Obama is not as firmly “respected” by the ALPACAs…but if you read his speech to the AlPaCa Conference it contains similar Guana-co as Edward’s to the Herzliya Conference and Hillary’s to the ALPACA’s. He does say that Israel must be ready to make serious sacrifices and take risks if the are going to have peace with the Palestinians, so that’s an advance over Edwards’ and Hillary’s statements that they’ve made major sacrifices while downplaying the suffering of the Palestinians (and Lebanese). I’m surprised Edward’s is a bit behind Clinton, as Hillary praised the assassinated Yitzhak Rabin for his scarifices for peace, while Edwards praised Shamir!
But perhaps that’s because Haaretz is a Labour, and not a Likudist, paper. Have to remember that, in some ways, discussion about what’s best for Israel is actually a lot more nuanced in Israel than in the ALPACA-constrained monologue in Washington D.C.
Obama also voted against the use of cluster bomblets in Lebanon, and didn’t say that “Everything is on the table” with regards to Iran.
Senators Oppose Cluster Bombs
I am utterly unsurprised. And not the least bit happy about it. Look, I don’t disagree with you about the cogency of a lot of Kucinich’s position. But, don’t patronize me with assertions that his peripheral poll standing is the media’s fault, and subsequently somehow mine for feeling that the cat is not gonna be elected. He’s not.
I wanted Biden. Look what happened to him.
Then Edwards is simply pandering to the progressives when he asserts that he’s pulling all combat troops out of Iraq. Is that what you are saying. Can you tell me ANY OTHER EMBASSY that has had 3-5000 troops defending it? And why have a Vaticanate of an Embassy in the first place?
Basically, Hugh, you are saying that we are going to retain our role of being the Gulf policeman to retain our hegemony over the oil in the region.
I’ve heard Hillary say she’d keep troops in there for the boogey man al Quaeda. Edwards will not stay to fight. That’s up to the Iraqi’s.
If Edwards was a phony who was just spouting lines (the way Reagan did) would he really fail to leave out that argument, that compare & contrast part?
If he’s a phony he’s really really great at it. He’s so good that I plan to vote for him to watch his “show” for at least four years!
Because Dubya built it huge. Have you seen that thing? It’s gigantic, much larger than one of Saddam’s ‘palaces’.
Little mention of energy policies by any candidate. Minimal information on “mandated healthcare servitude” to and by corporgovernment. No talk of AMerica’s continued negative balance of trade. No discusion of how Congress and “Executive Oil” devise a economic stimulas package utiltizing more borrowed money to breath life into a economy failing because of an energy delivery system that lines the pockets of middle men and foriegn interests, at the expense of this nation’s well being, while continue to borrow to conduct “war” for oil, in Iraq. “Retarded”
And now politicians/ corporations want to “mandate healthcare insurance” with lack of full disclosure and call it reform. DO people think at all, or ar they brainwashed?
First woman on the Walmart Board??? Haven’t you heard of the Walmart family women??? Are you awake?