Login HereOut of respect for our Book Salon guest today, FireDogLake has a concurrent election results thread, since MSNBC airs its results coverage at the same time as FDL Book Salon. Please comment here on the Democratic and Republican caucus results in Nevada as well as the GOP primary results in South Carolina.
Feel free to include comments on the commentators, of course. As Atrios sez, document the atrocities....
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Hey, Teddy! Been making some calls into SC for Edwards. If anyone wants to do remote phonebanking, let me know and I’ll hook you up.
hiya, Redshift! I’d like to help out with remote phonebanking, but I’m on a new never-talk cellphone plan, after a huge December bill. Hope SC is friendlier to Edwards than Nevada was; we really need his voice at the convention.
He speaks for so many who don’t have a voice.
Betcha Dick Cheney is enjoying his NSA intercept of this conversation:
One thing that the horse race addicted media neglected to adequately report is that Obama has an anti-gambling record.
This record was one of the keys to today’s results in Nevada.
Hi, TSF!
What is that, TSF? I’ve never heard of that….is it an emergency-only plan or something?
TSF!
Suzanne!
Bravo, citizen journalist. This is news to me and I have been paying attention, rather obsessively. Why not report it to Talkleft and TPM for their post-primary debacle?
TSF!
Hi Prof, hi molly, hi Suzanne!
Hey oldgold!
Hello, BSRH and doc!
I do so want Edwards to be the nominee. He is the one I think will change things for the better. He is in my view the best Democratic presidential contender by far. Why must we have to settle for second and perhaps third best? We will continue to support Mr. Edwards as the next president.
When you say Obama is anti gambling, I assume you me casino gambling? Cause he was famous for participating in a regular poker night with other Chicago politicians and a bunch of lobbyist when he was a state senator. I think it was called the Committee Meeting or something like that. I wonder if the lobbyist lost more often than they won?
Hi Teddy and everyone. I’m glad Clinton beat Obama, but not happy about the poor Edwards showing.
Did you see the video of Bill Clinton explaining the Nevada lawsuit? I didn’t realize it meant that the votes in the casinos counted five times more than the votes in the rural districts. The Nevada democratic party rigged it up this way. He says the Clinton campaign had nothing to do with the lawsuit, but nobody knew about the 5/1 voting ratio.
I have been reading the Book Slaon book all day and didin’t have the TeeVee on. Are Edwards numbers still as bad as at the top of the last thread?
Video.
Thanks Kiddo
I feel the same way and it isnt over yet.
Nevada Democratic party estimating a huge caucus turnout, a great victory for Harry Reid:
Lahoma asks me, “kiddo can you imagine if the Republicans win the WH again?” I tell her, yes.
As I understand it, this would be the maximum possible ratio, only occurring were there to be some extraordinarily low turnout at the casino at-large caucuses. (I am not an expert on this stuff, so I could be wrong about this.)
This is ironic. Of the 9 at large casino caucus sites, Hillary won at least 6.
We must always remember to be careful for what we wish for or against.
My passport and my lady’s passport are newly renewed.
Think Progress:
With 84 percent of the precincts reporting across the state, state party officials said more than 107,000 Nevada voters attended the caucuses. It is the third state in the row to achieve record-setting turnout in the Democratic presidential nominating fight, which party strategists believe is a referendum on the Bush administration and a strong call for a new direction in Washington.
Just 9,000 voters participated in the state’s 2004 Democratic caucus.
Edwards is still the only one who polls ahead of the Repugs
Mitt will turn DC “inside out”
Thanks for the passport reminder. That is a January 2008 task in our household.
AP - President Bush said Saturday “the kind of spending projects that would have little immediate impact on our economy” should not be part of any stimulus package, setting the stage for a possible clash with Democrats.
Hiya, all! I am still trying to get into Charlie Savage’s “Imperial Presidency,” and have a couple others stacked up, including KO’s. No telling if or when I will get to the Book Salon book, so I think I’m gonna stick to this thread.
That DKos diary about Clinton campaign cheating is mucho disturbing, even if it’s not verified by other sources just yet.
Here’s the problem with Obama (from Howie Klein)
“But even if Lieberman will be campaigning against Obama if he wins the Democratic primary, the most reactionary Democrat in the whole Senate, the only Democrat who votes with Republicans more than with Democrats on substantive matters, Nebraska’s arch-conservative Ben Nelson came out and endorsed Obama. He says he likes his bipartisan approach. But if anyone cares to compare their voting records, Obama’s is considerably to the right of Hillary’s. She’s the Senate’s 29th most progressive voter. He’s #43– worse even than reactionaries like Max Baucus (MT), Ken Salazar (CO) and Blanche Lincoln (AR). Only 6 Democrats (+ Lieberman) vote more frequently with the GOP than Obama. So anyone– usually between the ages of 18 and 25– who has sipped the Obama Kool-Aid and think he’s more progressive than Hillary, let alone Edwards… look at the facts.”
http://downwithtyranny.blogspo.....t-for.html
Hi All.
The Media and the caucus system make it easier for Rethugs to win. Squeezing out and blacking out Edwards - and crowning Hills and Obama the defacto candidates really sucks ass, IMHO. It is not a democracy by any stretch of the imagination.
I am very sad about the Edwards numbers. I am sticking with him.
Gender Gap Benefits Clinton
By Jon Cohen
yes, I have to get my papers in order, too
Me too, bgrothus. I just sent him some $$ yesterday, and hope he hangs tough.
Yes, but it’s over. . OVER.
Will Edwards possible get enough delegates so as to become the “kingmaker” at the convention?
Chris Matthews snorts off-camera when Olbermann announces Ron Paul’s second-place finish.
I think that is the conventional wisdom but can you make a king out of chicken shit?
Snorts what? Bolivian marching powder mayhaps?
Translation: “If I can’t have my permanent tax cuts that will have no effect at all until two years from now, I’ll smear any sensible spending that any credible economist would agree is the appropriate stimulus as having ‘little immediate impact’.”
The GOP wants to restrict the stimulus only to people who pay taxes, which tells you all you need to know about whether they’re sincere about accepting reality rather than ideology.
bummed
*heavy sigh*
MSNBC boyz fluffing some serious McCain.
Russert finally admits: Romney won more delegates in Nevada than are up for grabs in South Carolina, so Romney can call himself the front-runner. “Ron Paul will trumpet his second-place finish on his internet.”
TPM:
Another big story out of today’s showing on the Democratic side is the very disappointing showing for John Edwards. With 73% reporting, he was 4%.
Is the Republican turnout simply the sum of the votes being shown (about 41,700)?
I’m bummed about Edwards also. Is the Nevada caucus like the Iowa one, when a candidate is below a certain percentage, that person’s supporters have to switch to another candidate? That’s the only was his small result makes sense.
Yes.
Thanks.
Have you no decency?
HOUSTON, Texas (AP) — A mailer from a congressional candidate’s campaign contains a photo of his head attached to an image of a different body that makes him look thinner.
The photo is presented as a true image of Dean Hrbacek, a Republican former mayor of Sugar Land, Texas. In reality, it is a computerized composite of Hrbacek’s face and someone else’s slimmer figure, in suit and tie, from neck to knee.
King George. QED.
Betcha the MSNBC folks have exit poll results that will lead to a quick South Carolina prediction. They are being very careful, and Noron just looked down and away from the camera when she talked about the evangelical turnout. But they can’t call it until the polls close.
Oh, yay, Mrs Greenspan!
There is a great post up at Agonist by Stirling Newberry that explains in great detail what sorts of stimuli are likely to be effective, and what are not. Highly recommended.
Stimuli, snorting, what is this blog turning into?
Edwards is THE fighting progressive left in this race (sorry Dennis), and is all but ignored. Painful to watch Dems shoot themselves in their collective feet. Again.
And WTF is kos doing ripping into him?
Kelly O’Donnell is telling us how John McCain is feeling.
Do not peek.
At least she got her voice back.
Washington Post Presidential LeaderBoard, includes SuperDelegates:
Clinton: 237
Obama: 135
Edwards: 50
Romney: 59
Huckabee: 34
McCain: 17
Includes today’s Nevada results
ha! Loo Hoo
The stimuli will be something Keynesian and not something trickle-down. Trickle-down (all tax cuts all the time for the rich) doesn’t work - not the way they say its supposed to work, at least. (they say that the rich will invest, create jobs, etc - when in fact they do nothing of the kind. They simply hoard the money.
A Keynesian stimulus will put real money in the hands of people who will spend it immediately. (The Media won’t dare call either economic principle by its true name.) Dubya wants to give everyone a check for $400 in the same way he did to get people to vote for him (or vote Republican, whatever)in 2000. Every sucker is gonna get another check from Dubya as thanks for letting him shit the bed. Its a Karl Rove production. See - Republicans give you free money.
****!
Can Hillary beat Mitt?
Actually they didn’t. That was bullshit from Bill. There was no 5/1 voting ratio. He was spinning and spinning wildely. However in all of the 14 caucuses having nothing to do with the federal district lawsuit in Nevada that allowed casinos to caucus, there are byzantine rules that make sure that often rurla caucuses have votes that count considerably more than urban ones. In Iowa, for example some votes in rural caucuses counted 100/1 over votes in urban caucuses. Caucuses are a bizarre, dispproportionate way to misrepresent votes.
LOL ole Billster suckering people into thinking actually instead of a narrow victory, the Hillary Girl won by 5 X the number of votes. That was pure crap out of Bill’s mouth. It’s not the first time he’s lied though. There have been many.
Tweety: Thompson is a slow, steady, Clydsdale with big hooves…
Re: Edwards….five years of campaigning to no effect.
There you have it.
23
Sure, they can play the mormon’s are boggie men card.
jeez, does that have to be the question?
It’s gonna be a long, hot summer….
http://www.commondreams.org/ar.....1/05/6189/
Here’s a link with a quick explanation of what is a super-delegate. Super delegates subvert the democratic process. Our system is little better that Venezuela’s if it is any better at all.
Looks like it to me, but what do I know?
Oh hell yes, when they start swifting Mc Cain you know it’s gonna be ugly. And wait until the terrist attack.
Yeah, and the attack on Iran…
I’m pretty convinced that Mitt is the “chosen” one to continue Bushco…
Ooooo but them Baptists. . .they won’t go for it.
More about Nevada results and delegate totals:
Also, these delegates are unpledged.
What a process!
The superdelegates were an overreaction to a couple of times when elected officials didn’t get the “opportunity” to be delegates to the national convention. I’m thinking from the McGovern and Carter years specifically.
Oooh. Peggy Noonan on MSNBC. How do they manage to bring in such great talent? blech
Where is Rachel Maddow?
Mom had a fine young woman doctor treat her at the ER recently. The doctor was very kind and compassionate. Mom asked her what is her native country. The young woman replied that she is from Iran. At that moment, I felt much empathy for her.
I sure hope not, but if he picks Huck as a running mate…
I am proud to be part of the reason for that superdelegate “overreaction” as a McGovern organizer and state party delegate in 1972 — in Virginia! What a bunch of sore losers those establishment types were.
How does an average citizen get to be a delegate? (It seems that being a delegate is the only way to truly participate in the so-called “democratic process”.)
Become active with your local party group is the easiest way to get started.
LS, Frank Rich says either Obama or Clinton can beat the republicans. It’s theirs to lose!
Wow. And that page also explains that the Republican count is actual votes. So we have roughly a 114,000 Dem to 43,000 Rep voter turnout ratio!
In 2004, Nevada went 418,690 to 397,190 for Bush.
See there, LS?
In NYS an average citizen calls up the campaign and asks if the campaign will accept petition signature carried by that would be delagate. If the campaign says “yes” you have to gather signatures for your chosesn candidate.
If your candidate wins your state they send you convention credentials and you’re good to go.
So if 50 people carry for Edwards in NYS and he only wins 5 delegates, his campaign must chose 5 of his would be delegates to get the credentials.
Oh, yay, Rudi’s on with Chris Matthews. My two favorite people.
The numbers I saw looked like considerably more participated on the Republican side than on the Democratic side. This was unlike Iowa and New Hampshire and didn’t seem to bode well for Democrats in the general election. Thankfully, Nevada only has, I think, three electors.
Rachel Maddow coming up on MSNBC after the commercial break.
I think you are looking at the Delegate numbers on the Dem side, which is what is officially reported by the Dems. Harry Reid says about 114,000 Dem votes in the Nevada caucus this year.
That makes me feel better…
BTW…Ghouliani is a bigger Ghoul than ever…spit! Even Tweety and KO both raised their eyebrows after he said how he’d fix the economy…
I was looking at the MSN website, which shows a total of less that 10,000 Dem votes vs about 42,000 Repub. votes. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21229219/?GT1=10755
Those are delegate counts on the Dem side. :)
They do everything to make it all as confusing as possible, apparently.
Lots o’ gamblers and high rollers in Nevada who want to keep all their booty. Republicanism sounds good to them, even if they don’t have a pot to piss in. : )
I feel worse again.
I heard David “Axis-of-Evil” Frum yesterday and he’s working on the Giuliani campaign. Confirms worst fears about Rudi’s foreign policy concepts.
Now, I feel better again. I’m gonna have a beer.
Apparently Obama won MORE delegates than Clinton in Nevada, despite numbers difference. http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....679/439684
If you contributed to John Edwards yesterday, Campaign Manager David Bonior has a special thank-you here.
more
He just said America needs to stay on the offense.
She was already on just a minute ago, but I missed how she was introduced. Is she now being considered an MSNBC political analyst? Because Tweety said, “Wow, I didn’t know about that? If I knew about that, I might have gotten involved!” So, what I’m getting at is, does anybody know what he meant by that?
Yeah, I’ve lived in Texas most of my life. I’m familiar with that kind of “rugged individualism”.
Hmmmm. O….K…aaaaa…y.
Romney and Huckleberry tying for third in South Carolina, with McCain and Thompson tying for first according to Keith.
If that DKos diary is true — that Obama won 13 national delegates to Hillary’s 12 — the media hasn’t picked it up yet. But it’ll be interesting if they do. I wonder if Keith, who posts on DK nowadays, has seen that diary.
Polls closed in South Carolina now.
Andrea is saying Barack did well with delegates.
Now Andrea Mitchell and Keith seem to be talking about the possible discrepancy in Nevada’s national delegates.
It’s either 12 or 13 for Obama/Clinton. Could go either way.
Yes, and Obama won more counties than Hillary, apparently state wide there was a 500 or so vote difference between them (if I have it correctly) see my earlier link. And, the places Obama won were the rural areas that usually go Republican.
KO pointed out Mitt taking off his coat and rolling up his sleeves, stagecratft!
Caucuses are goofy, byzantine non-representative situations that should be discontinued. They distort the true wishes of voters, and a small percentage of potential voters are willing to participate. The reason they exist is simply because the states don’t have to pay for them The party pays for caucuses; states pay for primaries.
Ok, I’m stupid, what is the appeal of this punk Romney?
Romney campaign: The Homeland is not secure until the hometown is secure.
Your papers please???
More on the delegate count, from The Nation via Digby:
Discussion of the Nevada delegates on Hullabaloo, not as cut and dried as Obama would have you believe.
dday says:
P.S.S.S. OK, I just spoke with Jill Derby, the head of the Nevada State Democratic Party. Regarding the Obama claim that he’ll actually get more delegates out of this, essentially that’s spin. Derby said that the caucuses are an “expression of the support of Nevadans today.” Around 11,000 delegates were elected today. That will be winnowed down at county conventions and eventually at the state convention in May to the 25 that will go to Denver for the DNC. In 2004, Kerry didn’t win every delegate on Election Day, but most of the delegates that eventually went to the DNC were his. Once there’s a presumptive nominee, the delegate numbers are subject to change. It’s non-binding.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com.....n-las.html
Such rugged types seem inclined to vote in a manner consistent with what they perceive might benefit them if they hit the lottery rather than what applies to their current life circumstances in reality. IOW, they are f*cking delusional.
Doggonnit.
Dunkin dropped out.
Caucuses are goofy, byzantine non-representative situations that should be discontinued. They distort the true wishes of voters, and a small percentage of potential voters are willing to participate. The reason they exist is simply because the states don’t have to pay for them. The party pays for caucuses; states pay for primaries.