Zed

This man is a true hero.

eCAHN — I got the e-mail. Thanks much for the information!

Poverty is the absence of all human rights.

I think that’s my favorite quote from what you cite.

Of course, the humilated poor & disenfranchised have been known to express their frustrations thru crime and terrorism. So there should be some selfish incentive for the non-poor to do somethng about poverty, one would think.

You’re welcome.

Mr. ReddHedd’s family lives in the Phoenix area, where there are quite a few gated retirement communities. Every year when education bond issues come up, there is a tussle to get them approved because these folks don’t want to pay for school improvements or new textbooks and such because they no longer have kids in schools. Last time we were out there when that was going on, I was trying to figure out how they didn’t connect poverty, bad schools in increasingly desperate areas, increased juvenile crime and all the other sorts of things that you always hear complaints about…and their failure to support basic educational needs for these kids to help lift them out of that cycle of poverty and despair. Just as one example, it’s baffling…but here we are.

Well, one thing’s for sure: the mindset of eliminating poverty is going to have to include the mindset of eliminating ultra-wealth.

Hi, Christy!

Poverty is the absence of all human rights. Or looked at another way as Janice Joplin sang what Kris Kristofferson wrote: “Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.” (35 years later I am still trying to figure that one out.)

There you go spreading the John Edwards mantra. You Bolshevik, you.

I don’t know about that — look at what folks like Bill and Melinda Gates and Warren Buffett have done the last few years with their “ultra-wealth.” I think we have to change the emphasis from “mine” to “all of us in this together,” though, definitely.

It’s that rising tide lifting all the boats that we want to achieve, but haven’t been able to master.

Actually, that always seemed fairly straightforward to me. You’ve already lost everything so that leaves you free to just say “Fuck it” and do what you want, not what society says you should do.

This is going to be a great visit, inasmuch as his models are so vastly different from the abusive system that was foisted on the poor and lower middle-classes in this country as a promise to lift themselves from he spiral of poverty. many of these sub-prime lenders were not only cognizant of how they were going to soak the poor and lower Middle-Class (BTW the ones who WERE saving themselves out of poverty and intent on making regular investments in homes that they owned). These individuals and families, the ones who were most ambitious and actually believing in the “work-hard and invest” myth of America…have been the ones to have that dream ripped from them by charlatans. In fact, some of these Sub-Prime repackagers bought up underperforming mortgages in New Orleans devastated by Hurricane Katrina at bargain prices, simply with the goal of foreclosing and replacing the homes with high-priced housing and buildings.

Mr. Yunus’ system avoids the usurious Debt Slavery practices that both the “traditional” lending practices as well as it’s modern “sub-prime” equivalent engenders.

The economic structures that allow people like Buffett and Gates to become so wealthy require poverty.

Poverty is the absence of all human rights. The frustrations, hostility and anger generated by abject poverty cannot sustain peace in any society. For building stable peace we must find ways to provide opportunities for people to live decent lives….

Beg to differ. Poverty is not the absence of all human rights, it is the inability to exercise one’s human rights. Big difference.

I don’t want to ask this question of Mr. Yunus, because I don’t want to appear mean or ungrateful for what he does, but does anybody know if he invented microlending, or claims to? I ask this because I read at least ten or fifteen years ago about women who did this for other women in India and in Central America. They were natives who had been sent abroad for education and returned and set up micro banks in their homeland, and often were persecuted for it because they were women trying to help other women get free of the bondage and control of their men, even though their men could not or did not support them. I guess ultimately I am asking, Did it take a man to break through and make this idea acceptable?

It is my understanding that Mr. Yunus began the program in the early 1970’s.

Mr. ReddHedd’s family lives in the Phoenix area, where there are quite a few gated retirement communities. Every year when education bond issues come up, there is a tussle to get them approved because these folks don’t want to pay for school improvements or new textbooks and such because they no longer have kids in schools. . .

Kids grow up.

Kids who get a good education will grow up to be business people, accountants, teachers, shopkeepers, and doctors. Kids who don’t get a good education don’t become doctors.

News flash: sooner or later, those folks in the gated communities are going to need to a doctor. You would think that they might want to invest in growing a few doctors before that day comes. They don’t grow up overnight, you know.

From his bio at the Nobel Prize site:

Professor Muhammad Yunus established the Grameen Bank in Bangladesh in 1983, fueled by the belief that credit is a fundamental human right. His objective was to help poor people escape from poverty by providing loans on terms suitable to them and by teaching them a few sound financial principles so they could help themselves.

From Dr. Yunus’ personal loan of small amounts of money to destitute basketweavers in Bangladesh in the mid-70s, the Grameen Bank has advanced to the forefront of a burgeoning world movement toward eradicating poverty through microlending. Replicas of the Grameen Bank model operate in more than 100 countries worldwide.

I’ll check in on the conversation with the author, but I have to get back to work designing a second home on a lake for a very nice young couple who would by no means think of themselves as ultra-rich, but within the context of this conversation . . .

Thanks. I was recalling from his appearance on Colbert last week.

I recall the India and Central America micro successes as well and a newspaper story a few years ago reporting it was also adopted by an American (Lakota?) group of women who were attempting the same strategy.

And, in answer to your question – “Did it take a man to break through and make this idea acceptable?” Most likely YEP!

Mods, can you pull my #16, I don’t want to get into that discussion now.

Arnie, I am honored that you have entrusted me with the task of embodying the failure of the American Educational System. While I cannot promise that I will be able to fulfill this momentous responsibility, I will certainly give it the old college try.

Thanks NPB! I just needed the affirmation that I am not making too many things up nowadays.

BTW, I lost that bumper sticker you sent me when I had to get my bumper replaced. But I got a new one for Christmas. It says “My labradoodle is smarter than your honor student.”

Mr. ReddHedd’s family lives in the Phoenix area, where there are quite a few gated retirement communities.

My bold.

That’s the reason why they’re not interested in poverty.

Round about a year ago I started thinking abut what walls symbolized. It didn’t take long for me to realize they meant failure. Berlin Wall=failure of communism. Israel wall=failure of Israel to deal with its problems. U.S. wall on S border=failure of immigration policy. Gated communities=failure of all social policies (think Latin America).

People think they can wall themselves off from their problems. They can for awhile.

The economic structures that allow people like Buffett and Gates to become so wealthy require poverty.

No — this view is part of why our economy is tanking. Poverty means the consumer does not have the funds to buy whatever the market is selling. Wages have been stagnant, cost of living continues to increase (higher food and energy prices), and the consumer uses credit because there’s too much month left at the end of the money.

If the consumer has no remaining resources, that is the credit tap is shut off, then they cannot “go shopping.” So every business that depends on those dollars will go down the tubes too.

The US economy is hemorraghing from a self-inflicted wound.

People think they can wall themselves off from their problems. They can for awhile.

This made me think of the Great Wall of China. Forgive my historical ignorance (Hi, Arnie!), but did that wall succeed at keeping out whomever it was supposed to keep out? And, if so, for how long?

This made me think of the Great Wall of China. Forgive my historical ignorance (Hi, Arnie!), but did that wall succeed at keeping out whomever it was supposed to keep out? And, if so, for how long?

It was built to keep out the Mongols. After the Wall was built, the Mongols went around it, and gained control of China anyway.

fwiw, my hubby shares this story: a client of his was complaining that he (the client) didn’t know the bank would foreclose on his house if he didn’t make payments. My hubby should have him told him this would happen. sigh.

back on topic: I was amazed to learn that 97% of the micro-loan takers are women. Yunus says they always pay it all back. :)

Yep — as though the gate keeps out all the social ills. They have to leave to go to the grocers sometime. *g* Mr. ReddHedd’s family doesn’t live in one, but we drive by an awful lot of them whenever we are out for a visit.

And then there was the Maginot line.

Walls=failure.

Anyone thnk of a counterexample?

Anyone thnk of a counterexample?

The walls that line the automobile transverse roadways in Central Park do a really good job of keeping the cars in.

I once visited a friend in Tucson. He not only lives in a gated community, but he also has metal shades and covers on all his doors and windows which operate on his garage remote. In his defense, he’s an avid amateur archaelogist who had purchsed a collection of legal (or so he told me) artifacts over the years. When I got up earlier than him the next morning, I did not know how to open the metal covers. Really freaked me out. Never communicated with him thereafter. Don’t understand why people want to live that way.

These small loans are a really critical focal point, and it is being coupled in some areas of the world issues of cultural preservation. Does anyone know if there are related websites?

And, by the way, small loans of this sort are a great counter to the sort of enduring corruption in some places wherein the only jobs available are acquired through political officials -in some cases as payback. This additionally figures prominently in the building of a middle class.

The whole point of microlending is to get it to the people who it will benefit the most. In 97% of the cases those borrowers are women who successfully use the money to get ahead in whatever field of “expertise” they have. For some that means being able to buy a sewing machine, for others it is seeds and a plow. Most of the products are sold on the “open market” and the profits go right to the intended recipients of the plan – the children of those women. They get food and may even be able to attend school. This is how to begin the end of poverty.

Try this one:

http://www.kiva.org/app.php

Christy, thank you for the ‘heads up’! This is one I don’t want to miss.

LOL! The other day I took a short cut through Del Monte Forest – my current bumpersticker reads: George Bush Deserves Another Term: Prison. A white haired man in an SUV came up behind me and started flashing his lights and tooting his horn. I pulled into a parking lot & he followed and kind of sorta blocked me in. There were nearby golfers watching but I was a bit unnerved. The old gent walked to my car & simply wanted to know where he could get the same bumpersticker. Whew!

Question:

Bill Gates’ ‘wealth’ alone, equals what percentage of the combined ‘wealth’ of the ‘bottom’ 40% of the American population?

Kudos for the ‘correct’ answer.

This is one for the candidates to watch Clintom, Edwards and Obama too.
The direction the economy is headed…309 point Dow drop today alone…housing 16 year low, and the people that were left out long ago means we need some really good ideas to help the poor in America too.
Thank you and go Muhammad Yanus and KUDOS to FDL for all the great threads.