Bush is simply incapable of feeling emotions such as these. The lives of others are meaningless to him.

I submit that to Bush, the graves of the fallen are merely a measure of how much of a “War President” that he has made of himself. Each tombstone is but a marker of his success, a measure of his “political capital”.

thanks attaturk… that’s a great quote. and the link to the interview with ike’s son is a good one:

J. EISENHOWER: Yes. I — in my epilogue, where I’m evaluating my dad, I said that he had the power to make concessions. And you know…

(CROSSTALK)

J. EISENHOWER: It takes a lot of power to be able to make concessions. I put him in a category with Churchill, de Gaulle and dad could all make concessions. Almost nobody else could make concessions.

sounds like the opposite of what we have today.

there can never be enough blood spilt…

I think nonplussed is right. It’s not that these guys are literally bloodthirsty. I personally think it is more accurate to characterize them as being blood-neutral. The sacrifices that Ike speaks of–and experienced in his actual war service–has no meaning (positive or negative) to Neocons and those who serve/support neocons.

I hope that when we get past the primaries the war becomes front and center, and the dems won’t be afraid to show the flag draped coffins.

It’s a case of memory loss. Life began in November 1980.

The Savior of Granada, Destroyer of Communism.

War is for glory, power and wealth and of course for those fighting over some claim to land and control/empire.

When those causes / motivations are removed we might see peace. But with so much money to be made and power to wield when you have an army at your disposal, it is unlikely that humans will give up war making.

Depressing, as it is, it seems to be in the nature of humans (mostly males), aggression and lust for money and power.

OT — BBC: “Incredibly, everything you see in these images can be found in the kitchen. Photographer Carl Warner has painstakingly captured all kinds of food in a series of still lifes.”

BillyBobRay Sez Check It Out!

Yes.

And don’t forget Retired General John Eisenhower strongly endorsed Kerry in 2004.

To see the film of Ike walking and talking with the men of the 101st as they prepared to jump into France can tell you a lot about what leadership WAS.

Seeing Ike is the reminder that he was prescient about the “military industrial complex”. Could he have foreseen the magnitude of Halliburton, Blackwater, and all the rest. All those who want a part of the action.

Morning, Attaturk…

To Bush, the troops are nameless, faceless, interchangeable, expandable automatons. Less than citizens, not quite fully human. That makes it easier for him to sacrifice them at whim. Paving the road to his retirement with their corpses.

For Bush to visit a gravesite would be to admit their humanity. Avoiding this act is necessary for him if he wants to continue to evade the truth about them and about what he has done.

My diary on dailyKos on the recent tirade from Bush:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..287/436024

Good Morning Attaturk, thanks!

Have you read “Band of Brothers” by the late great Stephen Ambrose? Great view of leadership and shared experiences.

Karla Faye Tucker is the tragic testament to the W indifference to life; he not only supported her execution, but yukked it up with Gonzo at the time of her death. What a guy.

military industrial congressional complex

from wikipedia:

In the penultimate draft of the address, Eisenhower initially used the term military-industrial-congressional complex, and thus indicated the essential role that the United States Congress plays in the propagation of the military industry. But, it is said, that the president chose to strike the word congressional in order to placate members of the legislative branch of the federal government. The actual authors of the term were Eisenhower’s speech-writers Ralph Williams and Malcolm Moos.[2]

Oh yea, it’s sort of hobby of mine. Read “The Coldest Winter”, Halberstam’s last book. It give a great overview of the real start of this right-wing republican bullshit.

Karla Faye Tucker is the tragic testament to the W indifference to life; he not only supported her execution, but yukked it up with Gonzo at the time of her death. What a guy.

I think that sums him right up. And that is our President.

As my parents said:Cannon Fodder. Thats all they are! They only serve one purpose- Profit!

never seen a battlefield and never seen a battle they wouldnt want to start.

We need to rally with a candidate who promises to lead an epic battle against these very forces. The Caesars marched in battle. The Bush plays battle on video screens.

Imus ranted this morning about the shame-full treatment of the wounded which persists. Cited the maxed-out usage of the San Antonio rehab center and the horrific head injuries and psychological injuries receiving cavalier nontreatment by The Bush’s VA.

Oh, and did you know it now takes approx two years for the overburdened, understaffed SSA to process disability claims?

Prairie Sunshine is Bridging Troubled Waters this morning.

I don’t want the “Butcher” walking on the grave of my friend or saying sympathetic words. He hasn’t earned the right.

Good morning from L.A. & thanks for the Ike post, attaturk.

Re: GWB’s lack of empathy for our fighting men & women-
IMO, when Bush is seen shedding a tear over this or anything, it’s pathological- he cries like a selfish child, not from empathy, but because something makes HIM feel bad.

Then that feeling passes & it’s back to the gym…

Your suggestion that aggression and the lust for (power) money appears innate, in the male of the species, would certainly be supported by a cursory glance at our collective human history, but I suspect it is cultural and learned. Beyond a certain point, only if the prevailing culture endorses such behavior does it become
as rampant and pervasive as we observe it to be today in certain cultures.

That is one reason that we males might wish to see an unrepentant ‘female’ perspective at the helm; unfortunately in a society such as ours, the feminine sensibility feels compelled to equally bellicose. This is a most unfortunate thing and suggests that women who seek public office are not-yet sufficiently confident in their sense of themselves as women as to draw upon the ‘goddess-power’ or to rekindle the matriarchal heritage of our collective prehistoric experience.

It was women, afterall, who invented agriculture, which is, arguably the MOST important invention of our species.

To me, the “bring it on statement,” should have revealed it all. I could not imagine any American President who truly understood war making such a shallow stupid safety involving the safety of other people’s children. Nor could I understand how the marjority of Americans didn’t rise up in outrage and disgust at such a statement by a man who had never been at risk and had no loved one at risk. I still hope that some day the situation arises which forces him to realize the shallow, silly, cowardice of such a statement.

Quick question, ‘Isn’t Dennis Kucinich still on the ballot for MI?’

Inflation up 6.3% in 2007. Thank you, Mr. Cheney.

“The year ended on a more positive note, with wholesale prices falling by 0.1 percent in December. That reflected decreasing costs at the time for gasoline and other energy products. It was a significant slowdown after prices had soared by 3.2 percent in November, which had been the biggest one-month increase in 34 years.”

Sorry for the incoherence, but you get idea. Thought of “bring them on” still sends me into an incoherent spew.

Why are Republics not ashamed?

Why is there no one to question the nonservice by the Bush family?

Quick question, ‘Isn’t Dennis Kucinich still on the ballot for MI?’

Hillary is the only one on the Dem ballot in MI

‘turk, thx for the wonderful reminder that we once had a different breed of leaders who actually bothered to think at all… It reminds me of the dismal and disgraceful performance of the American Legion and most other veteran’s organizations during this administration — not just on behalf of their members and those whom they claim to represent (dismal medical services, cuts in benefits, etc. — all on their watch), but for future veterans as well. I have the greatest respect for the vets, but while organizations have been eager to claim ownership of the whole “war is terrible, so respect us, please” schtick, they have been surprisingly unflinching in their support of a supreme commander hell-bent on sending more young men off to a life as victims — and veterans — of war.

Shame on them for not appreciating that the best way to truly honor those who fought would be to help prevent others from being sent off to fight and die in vain.

Bush’s tour with the Gulf Arab autocrats and dictators is a stomach churning sight. They were even promtoting the fact that Bush was staying at a 3 billion dollar hotel that had a beach with white sand that had been shipped, every grain mind you, from Algeria.

Bush is talking up the region like it is full of Jeffersons and Mandela’s.

But the Arab press is on to his wink and nod shtick at least.

So is everyone else except his close ring of courtiers who hear Bush’s sappy rhetoric and realy think that people are moved.

Hearing Bush makes my bowels move.

He’s also out of his league by trying to outgame the Iranians. While Bush is pushing for war Egypt is moving towards rapproachment after a few decades of isolation with Iran. Iran has even removed on of the final barriers between the two nations by removing the name of the street that honored the assassin of Sadat.

Also the Saud’s invited Ahmadinejad to this year’s Hajj.

Bush, always outgamed.

-G

We have 25 military officers, including colonels, captains, majors who are showing what real courage is. They have put on tin foil hats and joined the Hippies who think the 9-11 Attacks were an Inside Job. The only thing holding up the rotten carcass of the neo-con Dictatorship is the false narrative of 9-11 blamed on Islamic extremists. Everyday, there is more and more evidence that the extremist neo-conservatives are responsible for 9-11.

http://www.opednews.com/articl…..s__mil.htm

Capt. Gregory M. Zeigler, PhD, is a former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer. In a 2006 statement to this author, Capt. Zeigler wrote, “I knew from September 18, 2001, that the official story about 9/11 was false. That was when I realized that the perpetrators had made a colossal blunder in collapsing the South Tower first, rather than the North Tower, which had been hit more directly and earlier.

“Other anomalies poured in rapidly: the hijackers’ names appearing in none of the published flight passenger lists, BBC reports of stolen identities of the alleged hijackers or the alleged hijackers being found alive, the obvious demolitions of WTC 1 and 2 and WTC 7, the lack of identifiable Boeing 757 wreckage at the Pentagon, the impossibility of ordinary cell phone (as opposed to Airfone) calls being made consistently from passenger aircraft at cruising altitude, etc., etc., etc.”

An OT reminder of GWB’s empathy toward those of us w/out health care & those who can only afford the bare minimum- wasn’t his remark something like we do have health care in this country, it’s called the Emergency Room?

From TP Think Fast:

“Patients are waiting longer for care in the nation’s emergency rooms, a potentially deadly result of the shrinking number of emergency departments and rising demand for emergency services, according to a new study by researchers at Harvard Medical School.” Between 1997 and 2004, median waiting times increased by 36 percent.”

That was the most disgusting and inhumane thing I have ever heard a national leader utter.

Why indeed.

-G

Assuming accurate facts, why has there not been public and loud outrage? With such a frightening, lying narrative, where is the opposition, the impeachment, the Naders, Clintons, any who have a voice? I know there were many screw ups (you’ve covered your ass, etc.) but plotting criminality is a whole new level: where are the voices?

I often translate Jesus as Just us, when we kill them we kill our own brothers and sisters.

Gonna be another rocky day on Wall St.

-G

Seeing the picture of Eisenhower reminds me of the time when US Presidents upheld the Constitution and the Rule of Law. For me, his greatest moment as President was sending the 101st Airborne to Little rock in 1957. Eisenhower didn’t like the Warren court, didn’t like Brown v Board and didn’t like the idea of desegregation. But when a state governor said FU to the Federal Court…it was screw politics and do the right thing. That attitude may be gone forever.

Jim C @ 14, Raven @ 17
If you’re into WWII combat memoirs, don’t miss With the Old Breed, at Peleliu and Okinawa, by Eugene Sledge, regarded by John Keegan and other historians as the best first person memoir to come out of the war. Against regulations, the author kept notes in his pocket bible and shortly after he returned home from service with the 1st Marine Division wrote up his experiences. He then put the manuscript in his desk drawer and ignored it for half a century while he went to college and medical school and then practiced his trade in his native Alabama. After he’d retired one of his children convinced him to publish it. It’s just awesome in its immediacy.

Here are a few voices. Sibel Edmonds, Benazir Bhutto, Michael Meacher, Cynthia McKinney, and many more including family members of 9-11 victims.

One more time…this time with feeling!!!

WHY WE FIGHT

(poke around after the intro)

Morning all,
Here are some of the voices. Nothing changes until the original lies are exposed.

Minnesotachuck

Great book. He was an important part of the Burns “The War” series. My old man was an APD (Fast Attack Destroyer) in the Pacific and they worked quite a bit with the Radiers. His admiration (and I think survivors guilt) for the Marines was immense. Maybe that’s why I was born on Nov 10. . .and then joined the Army. Kids!

Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it. –

Winston Churchill

OT–apologies:

Bob Johnson’s free ride from MSM:

Imagine, for a moment, that you’re a reporter for the Washington Post. Now imagine that you’ve just scored an interview with Bob Johnson, the BET founder and Hillary Clinton surrogate who Sunday contrasted the Clintons’ early commitment to civil rights with a coded and snarky reference to Barack Obama’s admissions of past drug use — and then tried to say that he was just talking about Obama’s work as a community organizer in Chicago.

Would you press Johnson hard on his improbable explanation? Would you ask him what’s so terrible about community organizing? Would you ask him why, instead of saying, “Obama was working as a community organizer,” he said Obama was “doing something in the neighborhood, that I won’t say what he was doing, but he said it in his book”? Would you ask him whether anyone in the Clinton campaign knew that he was going to raise the issue of Obama’s past drug use? Whether anyone in the Clinton campaign encouraged him to do so? Whether anyone in the Clinton campaign has suggested that he shouldn’t have done so?

Well, you might. But if the story he wrote for this morning’s Post is any indication, reporter Frank Ahrens did not. The headline over the piece says: “BET Founder Johnson Defends His Recent Criticisms of Obama.” About 700 words follow, and here’s the sum total of them that address the drug use issue:

“Johnson reiterated that he was referring to Obama’s earlier career as a community organizer when he said during an appearance on behalf of Clinton on Sunday in Columbia, S.C., that the senator from Illinois needs to explain his past.”

There’s no mention of the words Johnson actually said Sunday. There’s no back-and-forth about the entirely improbable explanation he gave for them later. And, incredibly, there’s not even any reference to the notion that Johnson was referring to Obama’s admissions of drug use — a subject that the Clinton campaign claims its candidate has declared off limits.

The ‘push-back’ on the official 9/11 ’story’ is much greater and far more consistent than was the case in the assassination of JFK, suggesting that perhaps, just perhaps there may someday be more of an honest accounting.

Public skepticism is coalescing much more rapidly than that surrounding the death of Kennedy, as well.

Perhaps the Democratic ‘leadership,’ should they gain power, might wish to investigate further. (Holding one’s breath is not advised, whilst waiting.)

Two points.

DWBartoo @24

Anyone who lived through Britain under Margaret Thatcher, whether or not they agreed with her, would have cause to question the innate sensitivity and lack of aggressiveness of a woman leader.Actually that’s why, from over here in the UK, I quite like the idea of Hillary. I think she’s strong enought to get done quite a few things the USA needs, especially a move towards civilisation on healthcare.

Generally, you are all right about your troops, but don’t forget the Iraqis, not too may of whom wanted this and so many of whom have died as a result of it.

Er, Santayana, no?

Carlos?

I just grabbed it from here, I didn’t think it was Churchill myself.

George Santayana…

It was, like, a joke :)

George Santayana:

George Santayana (December 16, 1863, Madrid – September 26, 1952, Rome), was a philosopher, essayist, poet, and novelist.

A lifelong Spanish citizen, Santayana was raised and educated in the United States, wrote in English and is generally considered an American man of letters, even though, of his nearly 89 years, he spent only 39 in the U.S. He is perhaps best known as an aphorist, and for the oft-misquoted remark, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,” from Reason in Common Sense, the first volume of his The Life of Reason.

It was, like, a joke :)

But you have to give me some credit here. It was ON TOPIC!

RE: 9/11 Pushback. I would think the 9/11 Commission itself would begin to review things. After all, the Chairs were quite outraged about destroyed torture tapes. Maybe they are hoping for Dems. to clear the way. (No, not holding my breath)

Hi all!

Depressing, being greeted with reminders of junior’s beastiality so early, oogh! Not enuf coffee…

Jackie and Elliot 30:

It may not make much difference yet, who’s on the MI ballot. I heard yesterday Dems are not holding a primary in MI, even tho repubbles are. Go figure.

Avoids a messy confrontation in Obama’s front yard, I suppose…

s’ cool.

And on topic.

My bad,I was trying to get the quote itself.

I know, Raven…*g*

Your ‘culture’ is ‘mother’ to ours, and for all intents and purposes, in terms of mythology, destructive tendancies and cultural reality; from even a slight remove, our cultures and their respective behaviors are as one.

‘Maggot’ Thatcher is the prime example of what I meant, she was not motivated by her feminie sensibnilities in the slightest, at least in her public policies. In other arenas she may have been quite ‘feminine,’ but I daresay I have no wish to know. It is her public, destructive behavior which is her measure.

Ike was one in a long line of military heroes that tried to warn the country about the evils of war profiteering. Major General Smedley Butler started talking about these people in the 1920s. In the 1930s he warned the country that there were signs of war profiteers planning for what eventually became WWII.

http://warisaracket.com/

Will we as a country ever listen?

WHY WE FIGHT (complete movie in four parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xYeuzG24mo

A reporter asked Ghandi what he thought of British civilization and he said “I think it would be a good idea”!

Some songs you might enjoy:

“I Am Just A Lonely Synapse In George W. Bush’s Brain”, “Househusband Macho!”, “Gouge ‘Em ‘Till They Bleed”, “These Are The Ones Who Die”, “Lullabye For A Child In War” . . . .

http://www.soundclick.com/band…..dID=170140

seems pretty obvious, albeit horribly unsettling and depressing, that each generation has a tendency to re

There was always a disconnect between what the WWII vets in the
neighborhood would tell me about the war and the popular films
depicting it in the 1950’s. To a man they all said it was something
you never wanted to see and to ignore the movie versions of it as
phony. No surprise that with a 4F actor president in the 1980’s
the marketing of war would find a more receptive audience, ready to
leave the realities of WWII, Korea and Vietnam behind for the movie
cartoon versions designed to “restore” our fighting spirit. Only the
drunk supply clerks at the lodge believed that line back when, so
the propoganda must have worked… war sold pretty well until the
word of mouth stories from Iraq spread back home. Ike is spinning
in his grave at the sight of this disgrace to our country.

Had enough yet?
Work for peace which we do ,great guidance for influencing the knowledge of the voters about the candidates stands on war and peace. Rush Holt is an example of hard time consuming leg work. The peace voter guide is a non-partisan guide to inform voters. Times short get on board @ http://www.peacecoalition.org. Peace now.

Self-selection thing. Only woman acceptable to voters is a harsh, agressive, militaristic woman. I.E. one atypical of her gender.

Hey! *fumbling around w/ keyboard, muttering inane, obscenity-laced tidbits about how junior started his wah’n tarrah*

Frank @33:
At least one of those officers, Karen Kwiatkowski, was putting her butt on the line way back when she could have really been hurt. She began posting as “Deep Throat” on Soldiers for the Truth (http://www.sftt.org) about the OSD’s thumbs on the intelligence evaluation scales, and other misbehavior, in the fall of 2002.

That site was founded by the late Lt. Col. David Hackworth in the mid-1990s. Initially the site was dripping with loathing for all things Clinton, and in the run-up to the 2000 election all its writers viewed Bush as the promised messiah. Now the disillusion in most of the pieces is palpable.

Learn from history: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

Easy, some of us supply clerk/truck drivers were not drunk. . we were high as the cost of living, but not drunk.

It is her public, destructive behavior which is her measure.

Well that and her kissy face with rayguns. As an expat let me just say that I would no more vote for HRC than I would Maggot.

As for chetnolian @38

I think she’s strong enought to get done quite a few things the USA needs, especially a move towards civilisation on healthcare.

clinton is only strong enough to carry the luggage for big business. She has/will have no intention of approaching national health care. She is bought and paid for by big business…the same as McCain/bush/obana/romney.

Another good one that pops up there is Joe Galloway, co-author of “We Were Soldiers”. He loathes this bullshit.

As to the Iraqi peoples, we have treated them so shabbily and with such lack of human and humane regard, that the shame which should rest upon us, were this a just and civilised world, would last a thousand years. The are no words, there are not deeds which may justly compensate our hubris and selfish indifference.

I stunned my extended family’s Christmas gathering by suggesting that five million (and more) new orphans were our gift to the world, and that we should examine our comforts and good wishes from THAT perpective.

Right, I should have included breezy stories as another category of
bullshit about war.

I think I’ll just move on on that note.

Thatcher and Ray-gun were the initiating ‘neoliberals’ in whose footsteps both Clitions are pleased to walk.

But not the modern Republicans, Bush and the new generation of old men — there can never be enough blood spilt, they have no interest in “finding some way” as Eisenhower did, even with a list of mistakes of his own.

when I am elected presient I will pass the following law;

“you must have skin in the game to qualify for a vote on war, your skin must be first called, on the front line and first in”

bing, done

Aint that the truth !

Mind/finger synapse collapse (MFSC) ‘CLINTONS’ sheesh (incoherent mumbling) or ‘early on-set’?

I think at this point Nancy gets a really sick feeling in her gut every time she sees George’s sneer. She probably feels sick most of the time. Spends a lot of time in the bathroom…

LOL!!! Our ‘betters,’ of whom Miss Nancy most clearly is one (by her own admission), refer, euphemistically, to ‘that’ place, as the ‘powder-room’.

It is always visited only for appearances’sake, that one’s nose not appear over-shiny …

when you turn the most destructive military in the history of man over to sadists, and when a people’s self-identity and economic viability are inseparable from, and built on the false conflation of fearsomeness with strentgh, the results are never going to be good.
.

Kermit Roosevelt took the beaches on D-Day.

Not your average Republican…

Why are Republics not ashamed?

Why is there no one to question the nonservice by the Bush family?

Because you can fool some of the people all of the time and those are the ones Bushies focus on.

etc., etc., etc.

Powerful stuff that.

“Et cetera et cetera et cetera” — King of Siam in the broadway play The King and I

where are the voices?

I hear ya.

Something that we have lost with the Bushliburton administration, and with much of the currrent generation that aspire to the presidency, is experience in military service. George W. Bush, while he may have served in the National Guard, was probably AWOL or drunk more than anything else during his time of service. Dick Cheney was the master of the deferment. Neither of these individuals have seen war first hand, not experienced it, on the ground, as your friends and comrades-in-arms who you trained with, who you bonded with, who you trust with your life, are maimed or killed in front of your eyes.

The presidency of George H. Bush and the presidency of George W. Bush reflect that experience. While George H. Bush took us to war in the Gulf War, he did not command any military personnel to do anything that he had not had to do himself, a generation before. George H. Bush stopped short of deposing Sadaam and occuping Iraq, and the region was relatively stable after that and the United States was not diminished in the eyes of the rest of the world. George W. Bush has behaved as a petulant, spoiled, bratty chiled, as an arrogant fool and tool of the Disaster Capitalism Corporate Economic Complex.

Until and unless our leaders have some of their own family’s skin in the game, until and unless our leaders of the future pay attention to the wisdom and experience of our leaders of the past, we are doomed to more failed military adventures on the world’s stage.

http://indefatigable-indolence…..other-war/