Debate Thread #2 |
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| By: Jane Hamsher Tuesday January 15, 2008 6:32 pm | |
With 20% of the Michigan vote in, Mitt 40% to McCain 20% (MSNBC).
Rudy getting his ass kicked by Ron Paul again. Josh Marshall wonders if he should be allowed in any more debates.
At the Nevada debates, Brian Williams and Tim Russert will not be happy until they have everyone at each other’s throats. All the candidates classier than the moderators, refusing to take the bait.
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Go Edwards!
Yes
Brian is bringing up the Muslim slur!!!
What we’re all dieing to hear…
What does Chuck Todd think about all this?
Obama is asked about e-mails calling him a muslim, etc.
Somebody heckle again… Puh-Lease…
Oh goody, now Williams is on to the “Obama’s a Muslim” meme. more than half way through this thing and not one bit of substance. pleh!
Obama: I trust the people to sort out the lies from the facts.
Thing of it is… we don’t see anything wrong with being a Muslim.
Economy next, according to Brian Williams.
Yeah go Edwards!!!
Freakning tradtional media idiots…
finally the economy only 35 minutes in…an issue…this is insane.
oh good, a break… do I have some alcohol around here?
They’re giving us a break. Will we get to hear some spin?
As noted, BW mentions every rumor in that email without mentioning that they are all lies. But at least Obama gets to set the record straight.
Hell since Chuck Todd is the NBC “political director” then he probably directed Punkinhaid and Bri-Bri to ask the questions they’ve been asking.
I’m not watching this and I’m getting angry! Damn NBC!
What??? You terrorists!
How’s about Abrams and KO next time…???
Is he calling the moderators on their assholitude?
Guliani beat by Ron Paul…again…mwahaha
It’s 9:35 and the MSNBC people haven’t asked a single substantive question about national issues.
Well, the Personality portion of the debate appears to be over. Swimsuits next?
Williams and Russert are absurd. Does Russert remind anyone of Joe McCarthy when he waves papers at the candidates?
Lahoma advises me it’s way past time for a female, native American Indian, to be president.
I wonder if the moderators had a back-up plan for what to do if the candidates didn’t take their bait and attack each other.
good idea.
FPUd: “Speaking of the Orange Plot, is there any evidence that it was determinative of Romney’s victory?”
Obama and Williams have all but blamed the whole race thing on the Bloggers.
We agree!
Hmmm… I always thought that word was “assholiosity.” Maybe I’m wrong…
YEA AND THOSE ARCH EYEBROWS WITH POPOUT EYEBALLS…very serious
Debate Thread #2! Woohoo! LOL
Yea. He’s been an interesting character to me. Popped up out of nowhere in the last year or two in a position I never remember seeing before, and CONSTANTLY on every show spinning more than a Tilt-a-Whirl. Both of those make me sick incidently.
Apparently not. That would explain “What are your greatest strengths and weaknesses?” Lamest interview question evah!
“Evidence? Evidence? We take it on faith!” — Huckabee
President Lahoma has a nice ring to it!
Hillary is completely unbelievable….. I mean….. she’s part of the problem.
I think Russert prepares his questions while on the toilet in the morning between reading old issues of people magazine.
Economy next, according to Brian Williams.
“Senator Clinton – why did you fuck up our economy”?
no
Williams: we’re going to try something new…each candidate gets to ask the other candidates two questions.
Another way to get them at each others’ throats.
The moderators need to ask what the candidates favorite colors are.
So he’s a multitasker?
“My Greatest Weakness”? I watch too many Corporate journalists on the Tee Vee who sell out America for the Warmonger Investor Class. This includes General Electric MSNBC (excepting Keith).
The Economy is next. NPR reported that the PowersThatBe say that money needs (quickly) to get into the hands of (working) people that will spend it (quickly). Idealogy (republican trickle down, ie: tax cuts) be damned. They won’t dare call it what it is – Bill Clinton’s Keynesian Economics.
Harold Ford.. Heads the DLC for Hillary!! He is Vice Chair of Merrill Lynch!!
Horrible moderators…… but, we know that…..
I was debating (briefly) between assholitude and assholishness. I do like assholiosity. Mind if I use it on my blog? I’ll h/t you.
DLCers are republicans.
And a stinker..
That would make me the First Half Breed. ;0)
An excellent question. About Citibank getting funds from Korea.
Not really I am just cheerleading…
ya gotta be kiddin?
Uhh… Repeal Glass-Stegall…
long time reader, first time commenter. . . *pop*
Comedy central should host a debate with Jon stewart as moderator. it would be more serious and consequential than this fodder we are watching.
Hillary – “Gimme a minute while I blather incoherently..uh, money going overseas sucks.”
I like assinatitude, myself physioprof. :-)
I have to say Senator Clinton is not being well served by Mark Penn.
No but that has never stopped the VRWC from whining before.
The Economy theme gives Edwards a chance to say his piece. Go John!
Hillary….we need to freeze rates…yeah not so much….lets just put off the pain until after the re-election.
Bad idea I think.
she cant represent one thing she has done to stop it
Use it at will, it’s language and it’s free as a bird!
LOL!
Welcome to the comments — keep them coming!
I hope you would invite your FDL friends over for garden parties.
Excellent idea and welcome to the lake!
I have to say Senator Clinton is not being well served by Mark Penn.
Sean Penn, otoh, would be great.
John Edwards is winning this thing tonight, thus far, hands down.
Isn’t Walter Conkrite still alive. Can’t we get him to moderate a debate?
The subprime mess is a failure of regulation and oversight….
yes thank you OBAMA!!!
Yes! Finally!!!!
John sounds good methinks
Obama on energy: “Solar” Good, “Wind” Good, “Biodiesel” Not so good.
Super idea! Jon Stewart could moderate the Dems, and Stephen Colbert could moderate the Repubs. What fun! And you’re right — I’ll bet they’d ask substantive questions about the issues.
Hey, thank you to all who are bravely doing battle with Timmeh over there, so we lily-livered weaklings with the teevee off don’t have to fight him here.
I still think that Obama is sounding better than on previous debates.
BYOB. And absolutely no cocktail weenies. If you please. ;0)
I would like a dem debate where all of them spend the entire time bashing the repubs. Obama just did a little of that.
Somebody just pinched Russert on the ass.
Harold Ford Merrill Lynch
Harold Ford DLC
Tim playin gotcha again
Edwards regrets voting for the bankruptcy bill
i would have loved to have said Dennis is winning this thing tonight, but alas i think you are right.
Ohh, I like that!
Edwards admitting the bankruptcy vote was wrong…that is really nice…
I wish Hillary would do that on the war…
It’s always a little strange hearing a Clinton rail about unfair Press coverage, when Bill championed and signed into law one of the most damaging to the Constitution laws I can ever remember – The Telecommunications Act. This allowed for huge increases in media consolidation and dramatically contributed to the sad state of “journalism” were seeing on display tonight.
Could this be a reason for Ruturd Murdoch’s support for Hillary?
I am really liking Edwards tonight.
will any of them attempt to repeal the bankruptcy bill?
Timmeh busting on Edwards for the bankruptcy bill. JE, to his credit, says he screwed up big time.
EEEEEEWWWW….
Edwards, flat out regretting his Bankruptcy vote…
JOHNS ON FIRE
Edwards regrets another of his votes. Should never have voted for the bankruptcy law. A little late…again.
Done.
We are Sean Penn fans. Big fans. ;0)
don’t understand…
Go Edwards. Woo Hoo!!!
Edwards regrets voting for the bankruptcy bill. He’s my guy, but an apology isn’t good enough. That bill stunk and he should have known it.
Clinton speaking to bankruptcy reform.
Timmeh – “Hillary, the Bankruptcy Bill is your fault. Do you regret it?”
Hillary – “It never became law, thank god”.
WTF?
FREEZING INTEREST FOR 5 YEARZZZZZZZZZZZZZ?
Just returning from a phone call. Did I hear Hillary say she didn’t vote for the bankruptcy law?
Edwards has said those votes were a mistake along with the NAFTA votes.
Sorry. I meant to reply to sadly yes, in a comment above yours.
Clinton wants to reform the bankruptcy bill. Right now!!!
If Senator Obama is the nominee of our party, we will vote for him. ;0)
Hill talking about the CEOs getting the great bonuses on rip-offs. Minorities victimized by the sub-prime fiasco.
said she opposed the 2005 bill…
Wasn’t fixing the bankruptcy bill on the top of the dem agenda when they took control of the senate?
Nevermind, I realize the ridiculousness of that question.
She said ‘It never became Law!’
Hillary is confident in Reid and Pelosi to address issues?!
Clinton is relying on Reid and Pelosi to fix the economy.
why does Hillary have urgency NOW?
That’s my biggest problem with Edwards is all the votes like the Bankruptcy bill, NAFTA, and the Iraki AUMF that are now mistakes. He should have recognized the mistake before voting for these idiocies.
Hillary just admitted that she didn’t know this was an urgent situation economically until just now. gaaaaahhhh
Clean up on aisle 9/11. There’s a Rudymentum spill.
-G
Short debate:
Hillary: I agree with Senator Edwards.
Obama: I agree with Senator Edwards.
Did I get that right?
Yeah nothing like invalidating contracts to put our country back to third world status. That is why you can’t get a loan to buy a home in the third world because the contract law is not that good.
she said, and i quote . . .
“sure..” kinda like saying “yeah, why not”
Obama wants to give a break to people who are in bankruptcy because of health problems.
Obama opposed the Bankruptcy Bill.
That’s a *big* check mark in his favor in my book.
Because it is an absolute emergency, which W doesn’t understand.
Has anyone ever said that interest rates/fees/penalties charged by credit card companies need to be curbed. Anyone EVER addressed that?
Yeah, I know. It all depends on whether you think Edwards learned the right lessons from his mistakes and whether he’ll actually do anything once he gets in office. Not a sure shot on either.
Edwards is just about sealing the deal with us tonight.
Natalie Morales – “I haven’t eaten in a week. I gained a pound over the holidays. I feel faint. Does anybody have a question I can use”?
NAFTA the biggest mistake ever came to this country!! That’s what the clintons gave us. Gut the middle class is all it did….. bye bye jobs overseas, hello slave wages. Just bad. Sold the middle down the river for bottom line of corporations.
Just tuned in. Any acknowledgment so far that Kucinich was excluded?
Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Carumba!!!
Funny. Look at the picture at the top of this post. How come only the corporate-sponsored, pro-deathpenalty people remain as Democrats(?) choices at this obscenely early date?
He wasn’t in the Senate for the bill that Edwards voted on.
Obama getting some laughs from CEO-bashing.
Obama would have different capital gains tax rates for the middle class and others? Hm, how would that work. I don’t see it.
707!
Obama makes a good point regarding tax rates. Warren Buffett’s secretary pays at a higer rate than Buffett does. That’s just wrong!
it has been like this for 7 yearzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Which one? Was he in the Senate in 2002? Clinton opposed the 2005 also…
Lahoma asks who would you rather have supper with? Edwards, Hillary or Obama?
Howdy, Ma’am! Surely, Ya Jest…? ;-)
He is a much better man now that he’s not in the Senate. He was basically a more handsome Ben Nelson back then.
I like him alot but he’s a pretty new convert to real progressive ideas.
-G
Damn, it feels good to be a Dem.
JRE
I dislike NAFTA, CAFTA and the WTO.
not a word about it on there.
it is true that he is saying a lot of great things, but honestly how feasible are those changes? Those ideas require stopping a lot of BIG money to a lot of BIG business. i don’t see them Biggies allowing that to happen.
I stand corrected. Thanks.
Who’s buying?
Update from MI (h/t MSNBC) with 44% precincts reporting
Mitt Romney 162,805 40%
John McCain 121,957 30%
Mike Huckabee 62,820 15%
Ron Paul 25,999 6%
Fred Thompson 15,061 4%
Rudy Giuliani 11,877 3%
Uncommitted 7,784 2%
Duncan Hunter 1,326 0%
through a glass darkly
Yeah, that’s sure to work.
World Bank/IMF…
lotta data – easy to get mixed up…
I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you . . .
Don’t forget – Friday is donate to Edwards day.
Where’s she gonna get the money? Where?
IIRC she voted for the ‘01 bill which didn’t pass and become law…voted against cloture for the ‘05 bill, missed the vote because it was the day(?) bill had his CABG.
Mike Gravel.
-G
when josh says he wonders if he should be allowed in any more debates, I am assuming he’s talking about ron paul, we can’t have someone kicking the ass of “fox’s mayor” now can we
Natalie raised her hand and jumped up and down so she’d get called on
both williams and punkinheed…
white and male
geesh
Thompson getting more votes than Julie Ani – I will be up all night giggling.
whoa, hilarity and joshing. They’re all good buddies tonight.
Edwards – Jonathan. At least he’d be honest about the Hell we’re headed for.
Ding Ding Ding!!!!!! Edwards!!!
Surely Tweety and the castrati chorus will now be demanding Rudy Ghouli and Hollywood Fred drop out….
damn. I had high hopes for “Uncommitted”.
Now the candidates get to ask each other questions.
Edwards: campaign finance. health care. Clinton raised more money from health care interests until Obama passed her. What do the special interests want in return for this money?
donate early, donate often
johnedwards.com
Edwards asking about money from corporations and what is expected in return. Go John!
so far, Obama and Edwards don’t seem to be ganging up on Clinton – I find it refreshing.
i like Obama better than Hill
Same.
Roodi is at 3%!!
And Ron Paul almost getting more than those two combined… *g*
damn. I had high hopes for “Uncommitted”.
Uncle Mitted.
what about drunken hunter and thompson…
they should be out of the next msnbc debate on Jan. 24 (fewer votes than kucinich in NH)
Brian Williams – “Since y’all wouldn’t get into a goddamn fight with *our* questions, would you please pick a fight amongst yourselves”?
I slightly favor the opposite.
Hill just does NOT grab me in any way
Bad mistake. Hillary is asking Barack about Iraq. Will she ever learn?
We very much respect Mr. Gravel. He is, in our view, a truth teller. We’d love to have supper with this man. ;0)
Clinton aiming at Bush on the war, asking for Obama’s cooperation…
good! keep after the chimp!
Clinton’s long-winded question to Obama is about Iraq. Will you help prevent Bush from binding the hands of the next president about continuing the war, permenant bases, number of troops, etc. Obama, will you help rein in Bush?
Obama: yeah, sure. why not?
Yes, Public financing!!
justsixdollars.org
Freeze the interest rates…again I understand the instinct to do this….but you can’t just invalidate contracts. When the government invalidates contracts it causes uncertainty and that will have an effect of raising interest rates.
I am sorry that lots of folks got caught up in this mess. Sometimes it is their fault some times it was fraud but let’s face it we can’t go around invalidating contracts. We can ask for workarounds, we can ask for lots of accomodation but we cannot invalidate contracts and make the uncertainty greater. It is a bad idea for the long term and it is just as bad idea too give money away and encourage this bad behavior on the part of lenders.
Hillary grows balls. Bit late for that, isn’t it?
nice jab from obama during the high school question from edwards.
“i don’t take donations from federal lobbyists, neither do you” ooh. . . burn to hilary.
impeachment
HRC needs to do something. Starting with firing Mark Penn.
Clinton calls Barack “Senator Obama”. He calls her “Hillary”
John Stewart and Stephen Colbert as moderators.
Unfortunately the idea is too good, the networks would never go for it.
And likely neither would the candidates.
Time to ditch the pink sweater and coordinating jewelry?
Was she talking about the Clinton/ Whitehouse bill?
Edwards:while I am president there will be no permanent bases in Iraq.
Yes!
The three candidates are trying to outdo each other on which would do more, better, faster to end the Iraq war. More Kumbayah.
From the MSNBC exit poll:
GOP electorate in MI broken down by race/ethnicity:
White 96
Black 2
Hispanic / Latino 1
Asian 0
Other 1
Gender:
Male 55
Female 45
No, that’s ok. We’re Democrats, we’re inclusive.
They are Senators. Are they going to go back to work and pass some laws that absolutely prevent Bush from making deals in the Middle East that benefit no one but his family and friends?
You betcha, that’s why I picked him:)
I wouldn’t mind hanging out with him for an after dinner smoke.
-G
Hill HAS BECOME A DOVE
Timmeh – “you lied to me about Iraq!!” Nobody lies to Tim Fucking Russert! You are all DOOMED, I tell you. If it’s the last thing I ever do, I will destroy you!”
Moral hazard. It’s bad for everyone.
I will take any of the Dems over any of the R’s any day of the week…
Edwards: It is dishonest to suggest there will not be troops to guard the embassy in Iraq.
Big discussion on NPR about that this afternoon. Agreed that was not good but calling her Mrs. Clinton is the worst.
Obama is cracking everybody up.
Actually, I think the candidates might go for it. The consultants, OTOH, would have collective heart attacks if it was even broached by the Comedy Central folks.
yes
I don’t trust this shift.
Edwards: “The occupation must end”
The occupation must end.
I like it.
Sorry I missed the first hour.
She changed now….calling him by his first name.
I don’t know what this means…just adding some color.
I’m not sure I like that reply.
Edwards sounds presidential
Her website http://www.hillaryclinton.com/
calls her campaign “Hillary for President”
I get e-mails from Sen. Clinton calling her “Hillary.” And e-mails from her husband and campaign staffers doing the same.
Since people seem to think it will either burn down or fall down because it is so poorly constructed, I don’t think we will need troops to guard it.
John is articulate…im not used to it from chimpster
This is about as instructive as a World Wrestling Federation show. Where’s Jesse The Body when you need him?
Yeah I am having after dinner, debate enhancing wine from France so I couldn’t come up with the moral hazard term…but thanks…
ha ha
Edwards is doing the lifting. We like this guy.
JE, ‘If you keep troops/etal in Iraq, you continue the occupation’… Awesome!
She just called him Barak.
The candidates are better at sorting out their differences than the moderator are. We need the latter to get out the way and let our folks do their thing.
rhetoric methinks (Kyle-Lieberman)?
They ruled Obama’s answer a question, they want/need control.
She uses Hillary on her signs, buttons, and bumper stickers. It is fair.
They’re all articulate, but Obama less so.
This is the best debate I’ve seen. The format is great and the smaller sized group gives each a chance to answer in some depth…
I’m getting a different read than I expected. Only Hillary is answering in enough detail to indicate what she really intends to do.
She comes across as the only practical person in the group.
I remember Comedy Central doing “Mystery Science Theater” style subtitles and commentary with Al Franken and Bill Maher back in 1992 election. Was that a dream? I think it was for the Republ. Convention. They should do that again. After the strike.
They are all articulate! Any of them would be great. But I prefer Edwards, especially since Kucinich has been disappeared.
Not sure the non-debate about Iraq really clarified anything.
Too bad the Iraq debate gets cut off just as it got going good. I want to know what they are really planning to do about Iraq.
I’m with you.
Lincoln and Douglas managed to debate pretty well without any media help.
Quite the dramatic transformation there!
Lahoma advises me it blows her mind. She sees and hears Edwards, Clinton and Obama. She tells me there is no contest tonight. It’s Edwards.
I like that our candidates are fighting back together against the ijidts…
blasphemy!
Absolutely!!!! :D
contrast this to a pub debate…
immigration – terrorism – fightin’ em’ over there – god in the constitution!!
But the media will tell you Hillary won, just like always.
Hillary looks, sounds and acts like a president. The other two act like candidates.
She did not answer the question on freezing interest rates.
I’m just sayin’…..
I thought he’s supposed to be the great orator?
Just temporary ones. I guess the ones for the two brigades protecting Embassy personnel will not be “permanent”…and then there are the ones he wants for the “Rapid Response Force” “over the horizon” in Kuwait.
I agree..
He means the two brigades guarding the Vaticanate, I guess?
Don’t you think the American Embassy would be destroyed by the Iraqis the minute we pulled all the troops out?
Edwards bringing up the homeless vets, PTSD, etc. I doubt Obama or Hill would disagree with what he’s saying.
Good Gawd. McCain’s people “We’re happy with the results and doing great and we’re going to win South Carolina.” Juliani’s people, “We’re happy and doing great and we’re going to win Florida.” It’s almost like they are all happy they lost Michigan. Spare me please. Sometimes a turd is just a turd.
Well, if things are that bad…then maybe we shouldn’t have an embassy there. And I imagine that if things were that bad…those troops would have to be called “combat troops”. Maybe the “over the horizon” forces would be called in to help quell the mobs?
Here’s Edwards’ plan from his website.
Leadership you can believe in…if you haven’t got the real thing.
John Edwards for President!
“big sucking sound” — Ross Perot
Where’s Ross now I wonder.
How does that square with voting to reauthorize and fund the war?