There is no doubt now that the Clinton campaign has decided to make a major campaign issue of Obama's decades-old personal behavior. Robert Johnson, the founder of BET, said this at a Clinton rally in South Carolina Sunday:
I am frankly insulted that the Obama campaign would imply that we are so stupid that we would think Hillary and Bill Clinton, who have been deeply and emotionally involved in black issues since Barack Obama was doing something in the neighborhood – and I won’t say what he was doing, but he said it in the book – when they have been involved.
So first you had Billy Shaheen basically calling Obama a drug dealer. Then Mark Penn sleazily dropping the c-word on "Hardball." Now Johnson. This is obviously not a series of accidents. This is the strategy.
Here's the irony: by making Obama's personal life a campaign issue, the Clintons are giving aid and comfort to the Richard Mellon Scaifes of the world, who for years have played the same dirty game. And in doing so, Bill and Hillary are spitting right in the face of those of us who defended them against those tactics. Every Democrat who has for 16 years insisted that personal behavior has no place in political debate is now made a fool. Unforgivable. Here's Hillary just last February:
"I sure don't want Democrats, or the supporters of Democrats, to be engaging in the politics of personal destruction," said Clinton. "I think we should stay focused on what we’re going to do for America."
I guess getting knocked off your inevitability perch in Iowa, barely squeaking out a win in NH and blowing most of your national lead makes the politics of personal destruction okay. Because I can't see what Obama did as a teenager has to do with anything. This is very, very depressing.
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Good morning fellow Texan.
Hello, Blue Texan!
Good morning, BT!
What a chipper group. And on a Monday, and after such a pissed off post.
How many times have I seen people talking about Shrub’s drug and alchohol abuse in these threads? There is no proof that he relapsed, but many people complained that a dry drunk was just as dangerous.
How many times have I heard people say that it is a sign of a character flaw?
Moreover, a president is not just a CEO, he is a role model for our children.
I’m sorry, but the double standard offends me. And I think it is patronizing. Love yah, BT, but totally disagree with you on this one.
If she’s really determined to hurt Obama, Clinton should just drop out of the race and throw her support to Edwards.
I hate to be a pessimist, but if this shit keeps up the Dems are going to hand this race over to the wingnuts. Again.
I also distinguish –very much between personal behavior and criminal behavior.
Illegal drug use is just that–illegal. How can you have laws enforced by people who have shown a willingness to break them?
Oh, Lordie. So every teenager who drank — which is like the entire country — is officially disqualified from the presidency in your book.
Great.
And about this:
“Moreover, a president is not just a CEO, he is a role model for our children.”
If you go into the personal lives of every president, they’ll be no good role models except for maybe Jimmy Carter.
The Clintons must be getting some really bad polls to be sinking this low this soon. I’m very disappointed in them. It tends to confirm suspicions that, despite Bill’s exceptional ability, it was at bottom ’always about me’.
can Barrak and Hill slug it out so…..John Reed Edwards barrels through to victory….pretty please?
Sure hope no Democrat ever drives over the speed limit. What would we tell the children?
all you have to lok at is who ALWAYS funded him…Pam Harriman…Presscots partners
Strike three?
Look, the republicans haven’t touched this up to now. Do you really believe they would leave it alone if he got the nomination?? I think this issue needs to be vetted. If you want to hate the Clintons for that, go ahead, but I think it serves all of us to get it out of the way. If the Clintons make enough of it now, it’s less likely to hijack him later. I believe this is better for all of us. I’d rather see him put this to bed now, than later against the republicans who will absolutely be using it later.
Hillary and Co. are exactly like Bush, Rove, and Co. The only difference is which set of insiders benefits. Does anybody really think she will do anything other than maintain the Fox News, Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton Battle of Mediocre Management and Hyperbole?!?! It’s the same line of thought, or lack of actual thinking that gets the fundies ripped off every four years by the neo-cons. It’s as if we are funding a celebrity Texas Hold-’Em Tournament that we cannot profit from.
Underage drinking is not a crime, it is a violation, That is a a big distinction. Also alcohol itself is not illegal only regulated for age.
Cocaine is illegal at every age. Unlike marijuana, there is no medical use for it and it illegal to the general public under all circumstances
I assume you have started a Mothers Against Cell Phone Driving chapter
in your community?
There is a huge difference: The talk about Bush is his current behavior. It has been specualted that Bush has started drinking or using drugs again and that is affecting his behavior and actions. The talk about Obama is about his past bahavior. Nobody is claiming that Obama is currently using drugs.
Shades of hypocrisy on this site? No, it can’t be!
Also a violation, not a crime. Apples and oranges.
Edwards is the most vetted,and the PLUTOCRATS HATE HIM and his populist mantle
This stuff didn’t always work against Bill Clinton (in fact it often backfired) so I don’t see why Hillary thinks it’ll work against Obama (a similarly teflon candidate).
One extra note…I would be thrilled if this knocks both Hillary and Obama out. Edwards speaks my concerns and will know exactly how to fight the corporatists. I am an Edwards fan. I don’t think Hillary is evil for this, I think she is doing all of us a favor. I have been very concerned that the republicans have barely gone after Obama. They will, you know they will. They have been saving it.
Who always funded which him? Obama or Edwards?
That’s a really scary photograph, congratulations.
My Clinton Fatigue has kicked in quite quickly. I was not that fond of the 90’s anyway.
If Bill Clinton had done the honorable thing and resigned when caught canoodling with one of his employees, we’d have had Al Gore as President going into 2000, the terrorism task force would have read the August warning, and 9/11 might have been forestalled. Life would be quite different. Bill was selfish then, and the two of them are being selfish now.
Blue texan, thank you so much for this post…..I though I was just crazy thinking all of this was happening
You just rationalized every right wing scumbag who ever went after the Clintons’ — or any other pol’s for that matter— personal lives. Because getting it out there and getting it vetted is okay, right?
In the early 90’s I had a bronchoscopy procedure at Stanford Hospital. Just before inserting the ’scope, they painted the back of my throat with a cocaine solution to reduce the gag reflex. I don’t know if they still do this, but they definitely did then.
I detest Bush as much as anyone, but I find this “speculation” abhorrent. I think the notion of pre-senile demetia is more likely.
Why in the bloody hell can’t we stick to the ISSUES instead of dragging up years-old muck on the candidates and flinging it around.
Frankly, I thought FDL was better than this.
Pam Harriman with Averell(Brown Brothers Harriman) Nazi war machines bank(Bush Grandpa) funded Bill Clinton…i read her biography…Life of the Party
Also a violation, not a crime. Sheez!
And further, I hate that law and would love to see it repealed. When my damn phone rings when I’m in the car, I have to fish around in my purse to find the Jawbone, have to turn the Bluetooth feature on on the phone and try to answer, all before it goes to voicemail.
That’s a lot of time I am NOT looking at the road. Before that stupid law was passed I had no problem driving and talking (except when I dropped the phone–which was embarrassingly often)
I didn’t say it was okay. I said it was going to happen. Radical acceptance. I want to know how Obama fights this stuff. I need to have some facts about how effective he will be against the republican attack machine. I wish I had known this about Kerry when he got the nomination. It’s unfortunate, but since as far back as Carter, the attack machine is a reality and the republicans do it as dirty as they come. A viable candidate has to have the skills to fight it…or we lose.
It’s not black and white and just because I say we have a right to know how a candidate will stand up to the inevitable attack machine does not mean I think it’s okay. I hate it. I’ve hated it since Carter. I did a paper on how Reagan used Power and control (abusive speech) against Carter.
It’s the way it is.
I agree. I was just responding to LHP regarding the issue of the timeframes of the supposed usages.
Cocaine is # 1 for use in facial plastic surgery
You don’t trust him…. do you LHP?
I think this distinction you’re making is pretty silly. So since pot is illegal, you’re saying Bill Clinton shouldn’t have been president? What about every kid who’s ever used a fake ID? That’s a crime. What about driving after a few too many? How many of us have done that?
Come off it.
au contraire First of all “speculation” is all it is. Second, I have seen many many comments about how Bush’s Drug and Alcohol Abuse–PAST abuse– was a sign of a deep character defect.
The very first time I ever heard of the the “dry drunk” was one this blog and talking about Bush’s PAST behavior and how the personality type doesn’t change just because the behavior does.
What’s sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander. If we get to slam Shrub for it, we are then obligated to treat everyone else the same way.
I’ve come to think recently that what we should take into account is, as much as a candidates strengths, is their weaknesses. And select the candidate that has the fewest holes in their armor.
Of course, the republicans will attack anything that they can think of, anyway. They attacked Al Gore for intelligence (remember fuzzy math) and Kerry for his war record. Still, we should avoid handing them bullets. Edwards, now that he’s learned to get regular haircuts, is least likely to present weakness, and most likely to mount a vigorous counterattack.
I wasn’t aiming at you, Spacefish. I am unhappy with the tone of this post.
And I am not an Obama supporter, either, but let’s stick to the issues and quit digging out 20/30/40 year old crap.
I tried to post the link to the pre-senile dementia video of Bush, but the link function isn’t working for me. It’s here, if anyone wants to paste it into their browser. Or just google the term.
and since chimpy holds the nukes…his behavior is ALWAYS proper to speculate about imo
Like it or not, the press plays favorites and will overlook the transgressions of its favorites. I wouldn’t have been so bold to say this eight years ago, but either the press has gotten bolder with this or the evidence is just so much more immediate and overwhelming now with YouTube and sites like Crooks and Liars.
Primaries are a good test of how candidates will fight. That said, personal attacks on Democrats will be taken more seriously by the beltway elite than personal attacks on Republicans (with the possible exception of Huckabee). I’m not liking this turn one bit.
I have one other thing to say…now that I am thinking about it.
Addiction is a mainstream part of our world. I think the Clintons have addiction in their lives, and I think Obama has addiction in his life. It’s clear to me that Bush has the disease as well. What does this mean for all of us. Maybe we ought to be careful about “hiring” another addict. I honestly, don’t see it with Edwards. Maybe that’s why he can’t win. We are a nation of addicts voting for addicts.
OOPS. Sigh. http://www.informationclearing.....eo1019.htm
I’m going to ask a question which I’m sure will be interpreted as sexism, but what the hell:
If Hillary Clinton were a man–let’s call him Henry Clydon–and he engaged in this sort of sewage, would he enjoy the same level of support with liberals?
Wrong!! Marijuana is the only one of the two classified as a Schedule 4 drug which means that it has “no medicinal value”. Part of the whole idiocy behind our pot policy is that is treated the same as heroin, LSD, and meth. Go into any hospital today, right this minute, and you will find cocaine in the pharmacy.
[Mod Note; Edited by mod. Please do not insult fellow commenters. Thank you.]
I don’t think there are many of the “undecided” participating in FDL. It’s unlikely that supporters of one of the candidates is going to convince any great number of readers to change their views. So, it would probably be best if we all think of the worst things we can contrive about the other candidates and just keep listing them over and over. At least they’ll all be “vetted.”
his alcohol and drug abuse HAS CAUSED his OBS (organic brain syndrome) medical term for dementia,the combination has killed off too many of chimps neurons for him to ever recover
The post is about Hillary’s campaign refusing to do just that.
What sewage has Henry engaged in?
Hmmmm, who has the most to gain from alienating Clinton from her african-american supporters? Answer that question and you’ll find out who is behind turning every utterance a comment on race.
This is not rocket science.
I’m sorry, I thought my “general Public” limitation made it clear. I know that Schedule Z narcotics (including cocaine) can be used in a hospital setting–same as morphine, but unless they have changed the law (and I know there was an update recently relating to crack, but I have not done narcotics prosecutions in a VERY long time and had no reason to review the changes) schedule Z narcotics cannot be made available to the general public for self administration.
That is they can’t give you a prescription to take to your regular pharmacy. It has to be administered by (or in the presence of) the medical facility.
That’s why addicts on methadone maintenance have to come each day and take their dose in the view of the clinic staff.
Which always seemed very harsh to me. I’m not advocating a drug policy here. I’m just not buying into a double standard where a guy waits until after the Statute of Limitations has expired on his crime, confesses to the crime and we are supposed to condone the criminal behavior?
That’s not a message I want to send to my child.
Imagine if John Edwards had his surrogates implying Obama was a drug dealer. Would liberals approve?
Good morning everyone.
I hate seeing Dems beating up on Dems. But one looks back over past campaigns, and there are precious few that don’t eventually involve some roughhousing.
Wasn’t Obama the 1st one to raise this issue, in his book? Seems to me we’ll always wonder if the Clinton campaign might have adopted a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy if the issue weren’t out there in the first place.
With regrets all around - because I don’t expect any winners from a campaign spat like this, and I think both candidates are superb measured against ANY repubble - I stand with you on this, LHP. We’re not talking about a mere parking ticket here. Oh woe.
The way this is going…Edwards will be the last man standing…
cocaine combined with the sauce
http://www.sciencedaily.com/re.....062446.htm
I understand that. I’m just sorry we’re dragging all of this stuff up and arguing about it.
Maybe that’s a good reason I shouldn’t be reading blogs at my desk during the work day. And I’ve just about OD’d on this campaign, and it’s only January.
ooops, I really had the wrong “him”.
Dope Nation, eh?
Have a look at any corporation’s “most prescribed drugs” in its medical plan.
I agree. It’s as if the hillary campaign has decided to divide the Dems. Their encouragement or negligence is making things worse and worse.
And yes, it’s very, very depressing.
YES,YES,YES pretty please with sugar and nutzzzzzzzzzzzz
Screaming EDWARDS at the top of my lungs I am still being drowned out be gender and race. Fu**, F**k, *uc*.
pretty picture ,aint it
Can’t say that bothers me.
I can only hope that this bloody knife fight between Obama and Clinton helps strengthen Edwards’ position.
At this point I don’t trust either of them–to get elected in the general.
I want a Dem in the WH. Both Hillary and Obam seem to be spiraling out of control.
But, that is not my reason for disagreeing with BT.
I really do think we have to have consistency otherwise we are no better than hypocrites like Rush Limbaugh.
No…you are right and it is not sexist to say that,
I am full of hope right now, that a major Dem, Howard Dean or SOMEONE will call the clintons on this and just make them stop it!
Accident statistics have established cell phone use causes as many
accidents as alcohol, impaired driving skill results. Good rationalization though. The dry drunk syndrome results from neurological
damage from long term, heavy, alcoholic lifestyle drinking, not from
occasional, social, apperitif use.
The Clintons are working hard to make sure that the next President is again from the Republic Party.
That’s a lot of time I am NOT looking at the road.
Yes, I know. Just a violation. ;) But seriously, pretty damned dangerous.
What I didn’t like was the election fraud stuff aimed at Hillary. We ignored it when the republicans did it in 2000, and 2004. Their are plenty of computer scientists who have made it clear that this could have occurred in every election since 2000. And when I brought it up on these sites and even linked the discover magazine article written in 2003 predicting that this is what would happen in 04, I was ignored and called crazy.
Now, we have Hillary win an election and many dems including lots of you on this site, accuse Hillary of cheating. It’s all the same b.s, can’t you see? Obama’s campaign helped that one along and none of you took offense to that!! We didn’t call the republicans…just the democrat!!
I hate this, I don’t like Hillary, I want Edwards to win but I am amazed at how blindly folks follow Obama. It truly does remind me of the way people followed Bush. Folks who follow Clinton seem to do it warts and all, but people act as if Obama were the Messiah or something.
This low blow stuff is going on in both camps. Obama has been sexist and condesending in his approach to Hillary, as well. When he made his little “we like you Hillary” during the last debate, it was very patriarchal and sexist. He smirked when he said it. I am tired of both sides pointing at the other and acting innocent themselves.
The Obama camp has and will play dirty, they do it indirectly. Clinton is playing dirty as well. Edwards pretty directly went on the attack, but folks didn’t like his directness.
We get what we get, but the black and white, all or nothing, cogntive distortion crap is driving me crazy. No body is innocent, and nobody is evil. The candidates are human beings with flaws and are we.
I am interested in seeing how each candidate handles the attack machine, because I know the republicans will fight dirtier than anything we have seen up to now. I think it’s interesting that we are all blaming each other and not focusing on facts. Don’t let emotions decide this race.
“The Clintons are working hard to make sure that the next President is again from the Republic Party.”
Exactly, and MOST of their supporters are on the Clintons or NO ONE meltdown express!
Pam and Bill and Brown Brothers Harriman money
http://www.ishipress.com/pamela-h.htm
I agree that it is just speculation. However, most of what I have seen (admittedly not all there is) relates to his current actions based on his past and possibly present use.
From other things you have said, I think I understand your position.
If HRC dropped out and and asked her followers to support Edwards, does anyone think that black Democrats would just say, “Oh, okay. I’ll be real happy to just vote for another white male.”
Actually, there is at least some limited medical use of cocaine but not by average citizens. When I had four impacted wisdom teeth taken out by the USAF in early ‘77, they sprayed a, yes, seven per cent solution up my nose prior to administering a general anesthetic.
But that is a very limited legal use under control.
They need to vote for the best candidate on the issues, not based on race and gender, don’t you think? They are not that shallow.
if he speaks truth to power,and tells them EXACTLY what they can expect of him
Can’t we all just get along?!?!
Really. I’ll be glad when we can all turn our sights against a common enemy again.
I am dropping this RSS feed from my information providing list. I want information not caterwauling. There are some responsible contributors to this list but the hate mongering is a waste of my time, and frankly yours.
Don’t all you lawyers types *g* always say that lawyers shouldn’t raise questions they don’t already know the answers to? That’s my impression in any case.
debating the qualities of our canidates is good…LET THE BEST PERSON/CANIDATE win
You keep bringing up instances of trivial behavior and comparing to to something serious.
You know one of the first times I went up to Harlem to Manhattan north Narcotics for “federal Day” a Cocaine addict (she very proudly told me that she had NEVER done heroin) threw up on my foot while I was interviewing her.
Naturally I took and interest in her case after that. At one point there was an issue because the name and Social security number she had given us was for a 27 year old woman, she looked like she was in her 60’s.
My boss thought she was lying about her identity and was not grooving on the plea deal I was trying to get approved. Then her fingerprints came back.
She was telling the truth. You cannot believe what that drug did to her body. She had open weeping sores on her skin, she would shake and tremble in withdrawal. She haunts me still.
I spent a year going up to Harlem in the middle of the night to rite narcotics complaints. I have seen up close what that drug can do to a population. This is NOT a trivial thing
So what’s the best anti-cocaine policy? The Drug War?
Are you really saying that what drug use in your teens should disqualify one from the presidency? Pretty stringent standards don’t you think.
Also, the Republicans are splintering. The ONLY candidate that will you united them is HILLARY.
LS and sadlyyes: Look, I like Edwards, but that is not going to happen. If “truth to power,” as you see it, were his issue, he would already be leading in all the poles. This race/gender stuff is going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and give us President McCain.
it is a horrible disease,to be treated as one,as well as alcholism
I agree, but as a child of divorce, I hate to see so much fighting among family, especially when that family ultilately has a common goal.
Ohhh.. So she’s just doing her part to be a good democrat. I get it.
Everything’s ok then.
i cant give up yet,i just cant let the media WIN
it’s hard not to see both racism and gender-bias in your comment.
you didn’t mean it that way, did you?
and while i’m grumbling, i think comments by others about a “nation of addicts” are way over the top.
in a word, NO!
LHP - what you’re missing is that Obama talks about his use in the context of realizing he was wrong and stopping - after which he went on to considerable success. It is a message to young people, esp young black people - that change is possible.
The Bush approach to his previous drug and alcohol use is simply denial.
And the Clinton approach to Bill’s clear difficulties with sexualty has also been denial.
I’m not supporting anyone (my two candidates are gone) but I applaud Obama’s forthrightness on this - and yes, the resulting message of hope for young people who feel hopeless.
That would be Edwards, in my book.
we need to fight SMARTLY…thesis ,antithesis= synthesis…its ok..really it is lol
She became an addict, not someone who tried a drug a couple of times and
moved on. Big difference there as well. What you saw did not come from
trial use.
I agree on this being depressing. Predictable, but depressing. I think, however, that it won’t work this time. I think we’re at a new stage, and these old tactics will only backfire on those who use them. This won’t hurt Obama.
The times HAVE changed.
me too…our country need a populist now,and a smrt lawyer to boot
I don’t see how you see that in my comments. I’m a Democrat. I believe all three Democrats are superior on every issue, including race and gender, to all of the Republicans. But using those issues against each other is deadly. I’ve seen Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and George Bush beat better men because of splits in the Democratic party. This would be the most needless split of all.
I’m worried about that too, believe me. The one thing to remember is that early results and polling historically changes dramatically as time marches on.
I want the best candidate to win on their merits, not “because” everyone else is “ruined” by rumors and dirty politics.
I would agree that one could perceive McCain as a “threat”, however, his position on endless war and endless occupation is not going to sit well with the American people even if his other policy positions are moderate…dirty politics or not. The country wants out of the Neocon war mongering or anything remotely resembling it.
Like I said, Edwards will possibly be the last man standing, and I hope he hangs in there all the way.
JMHO.
Don’t fear Hegel?
LOL !!
hahahahahahaha
debating is good
we cant be afraid to fight fairly,and decently
Has okk said anything bad about Hillary yet? He promised lahoma he would not, at least until midnight last night.
I could feel his frustration all day yesterday. .g)
That is what happened in Chicago 1968, the democrats gutted each other
and elected Richard Nixon. Say it out loud, Richard Nixon.
There are a number of corporate-produced anti-depressants available.
Available by prescription only, of course.
Today ought to be a doooozy!!
I say a pox on both their houses. As for pressing the drug issue, it is certainly Rovian. Hit him where it will hurt. But two evidently can play the game. How about deliberately misinterpreting a comment and then using the deliberate half quote to attack a candidate? Ask Obama about what Pres. Clinton really meant when talking about the ” Obama fantasy”. Obama turned a perfectly cogent argument against Obama’s war record meme into a racially charged attack against Clinton. Rove would be proud.
Let’s go with the real progressive instead of the two pretenders — Edwards.
Agreed, but this is not what I see happening. It’s getting ugly and the end result will be that many people will be turned off of the race because “it’s all just politics.” When you fight dirty within a family, both sides loose.
OT on substance abuse by Bush. I’ve noticed that he’s gained weight and his face is fatter. Is this recent?
I was pretty sure you didn’t mean it that way; it’s just that the wording grated enough that I was reluctantly speaking up - some could have taken it wrong.
Thanks for your explanation. I couldn’t agree more. The dangers of a split worry me almost as much as possibilities of election fraud.
I’m still fuming over DeLay’s henchmen not being sent straight to jail for storming Miami Dade BOE during the attempted recount. THERE’s thuggery for you!
Bingo. And you could watch it happen with the partisans of Bobby Kennedy, Hubert Humphrey, and Eugene McCarthy. Maybe they thought they were just having a healthy discussion and vetting each other.
Edwards campaign!!! If any of you are reading this post…Stay out of the conflict!!!
keep it clean and on point….the eonomy.the war,healthcare…desperatly need debating….we NEED to know where they stand…and senators track records are fair game…get it out there before McStain does
MSM is smacking HRC down over this.
You wouldn’t think that people who live in glass houses would be inclined to throw stones. This just bring to mind, screamingly, the old “but I didn’t inhale” bit Clinton used to tell. It was ludicrous then, and it remains ludicrous now. Nobody has ever questioned Mrs. Clinton, but it seems the time has come to ask her that question now. BTW, remember what Joe Wilson said when asked that question. It went something like, “I went to Berkley. Back then, if you