In the wake of Barack Obama's non-win over Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire, the punditti have been making various wailing noises over how awful it is that they were so wrong and all that. But for all the hubbub over the New Hampshire pre-primary polls and how accurate or inaccurate they were, it's rather interesting that some polls that may have more import have got comparatively minimal coverage.
I speak of the CNN and Rasmussen polls that provide national head-to-head match-ups of presidential candidates. And for months now -- at least, until CNN left off a couple of candidates this time around --both of these polls have been saying similar things about the strengths and weaknesses of the major candidates, things that aren't being told to us in the evening TV news or on the cable gabfests.
Here are the current Rasmussen head-to-head match-ups for the various Republican candidates against the Democrats:
A few things should be immediately apparent:
1) McCain is by far the GOP's strongest candidate in the general election. (Rudy would be stronger, but he's not going to make it past South Carolina, much less to the nomination.) He trounces Hillary 49% to 38%, and beats Obama 46% to 43%. In fact, the only Democrat who beats him is none other than John Edwards, who decisively beats McCain 46% to 39%.
This is why it's a good idea for Michigan Democrats to engage once again in the time-honored tradition of crossover primary voting to vote for Romney and deny McCain a win in the Michigan primary: It blunts McCain's momentum, and convinces Romney to stay in the race at least through the South Carolina primary, which is a good thing as Romney will force McCain to spend money he doesn't have on him to spend. (And if Romney does win the nomination, he's much easier to beat, money or no money.)
2) John Edwards is by far the Democrats' strongest candidate in the general election. He is the only one who is not beaten outright by any Republican candidate: He ties with Giuliani at 44% each, but easily beats McCain, Thompson, Romney, and Huckabee, the latter two by double-digit margins.
3) Hillary Clinton is the weakest Democratic candidate in the general election. She loses to every single Republican except Fred Thompson and Ron Paul, and neither of those two gents is going to get the Republican nomination for president.
4) Barack Obama is in between Edwards and Hillary Clinton in strength in the general election. He does much better against Rudy Giuliani than either Edwards or Clinton, beaing Giuliani 37% to 47%, yet against every other Republican, especially McCain and Romney, Edwards is the Democrat that does the best.
Of course, this is just one pollster, and though Rasmussen is probably the best of the lot, it behooves us to look at other polls to see if similar patterns obtain. Luckily for us, CNN has been doing nationwide head-to-head polling as well, and in their December polling, the same patterns manifest: Edwards is the strongest Dem, Hillary is the weakest, Obama is somewhere in between -- and John McCain is the GOP's strongest player. CNN's current January polling is somewhat kinder to Clinton, but it's also missing Edwards, so there's no way to see if the patterns still hold with him in the mix.
The upshot of all this: If Hillary's the Democratic nominee, we could very easily lose to any likely GOP nominee. If Obama's the nominee, he does OK so long as he doesn't face McCain. But if Edwards is the nominee, we're sitting pretty. Which, I suspect, is one reason why Big Media hates John Edwards so much and does everything it can to destroy him. (Speaking of which: KingOneEye at DailyKos pointed out this morning how the NYT is ignoring a key result of its own poll on the race -- namely, that as more people get to know him, Edwards' favorability rating keeps going up.)
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We in this house like Edwards.
PW!
Our next president:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/le.....d_full.jpg
That’s why we delivered Fayette County Iowa, a rural conservative stronghold for John Edwards. Go get em in Oklahoma OKK!
So what can be done to get him the good headlines he needs and the visibility?
OT - but good news.
I just got e-mailed by Alaskans For Clean Elections. We’ve been working to get our election process on a whole new footing, and getting petitions for a ballot initiative calling for major campaign finance reform on the November ballot.
Here’s what Michelle Meyer the campaign manager, just sent:
THANK YOU everyone who helped us take this first step towards Clean Elections in Alaska.
Alaskans for Clean Elections turned in over 32,000 signatures to the Division of Elections today and
thanks to a whole host of volunteers, we had already verified 23,920. The total we needed to get was
23,831. So barring any unforeseen occurrences, we’ll be on the 2008 ballot.
To everyone outside of Anchorage please know that we’ll be thinking of you and we thank you again for
your hard work. We needed to get a significant percentage of signatures in 30 out of 40 state house
districts and we did it in 34 districts! To your credit, we anticipate that a full third, or 11,000 signatures,
have been gathered by volunteers. I think this might be a new high number for volunteer participation in
initiative signature gathering in Alaska!
Hey there PW.
Corporate media ain’t out to inform ya know!
I take it you are an Edwards supporter. ;0)
It’s also what the right leaning triangulators don’t want us to know.. They really have run to far right.
That Demo (in your pix) has my vote! That’s the picture of a candidate for change. ;0)
Wonderful and Ive heard this about Edwards from the beginning. He’s staying in, let the chips fall!
Did anyone listen to the goleft piece? They are talking about Edwards as a winner. He gets his agenda out there plus stands a chance for the nomination. His beliefs are a cause as well as a campaign.
http://goleft.tv/view.asp?v=905
The front page of my local paper today had a (local) university prof stating that Edwards is “done” and will probably drop out before Super Tues. The reporter repeatedly spoke of the Demo primary as a two-person race, with occasional head nods toward Edwards. Out-f-ing-rageous. On the other hand, it’s nice to know I can save a stamp and not mail in my ballot…..
I agree that Edwards is probably the surest bet for the General election..if people would get out and vote. When I mentioned Edwards to my sister, her reaction was not another “White Southern Male”. She is an Obama supporter, doesn’t think Hillary can win. Would Edwards get the “bodies” to the polls?
Excellent post PW. I occasionally talk politics with people in rural NC (here on my extended, and maybe soon permanent “visit”).
It’s discouraging. They are not even rational on the topic of Hillary. These are educated, generally moderate voters –who all supported Gore and Kerry. Their vehemence against her is chilling.
Most are holding out hope for Edwards. They see either HC or BO as playing into the Repubs hands … sure losers in the general.
I have always thought that certain math types were biased. I mean if we can have “right triangles”, why can’t we have “left-triangles”? I just don’t get it. ;0)
Apples to oranges.
You’re comparing polls taken for Edwards during mid-December, prior to Iowa and New Hampshire, to polls taken in mid-January for Clinton and Obama. McCain was way down in the polls in Nov and Dec. His resurgence has only come in the past two weeks.
Obama was leading McCain in early December as well, for instance.
As a black man I have to say that Edwards may not be able to break through the protective shield that many people are beginning to erect around Obama.
When I called home over the weekend and talked politics with my relatives there was no one interested in even considering Edwards over Obama. There is a real sense that we (the black community) are hoisting Obama into the sphere of MLK.
I get the feeling that many African Americans feel that if a black man becomes president we may truly have “overcome”.
This is just my sense of how my family is feeling, obviously I can’t speak for the entire black community.
Because if the left triangulated with the Libertarians there would be no more war.
That settles that. May I pass this on to the woman (Lahoma) upstairs? ;0)
Hi, everyone!
Sorry I’m late — wanted to make sure every body got their zeds.
I thought she knew everything. *s*
And Vice President.
Who will serve in the Cabinet??
How are you, PW?
Please Digg this post!
Help me out. Seriously. Did Former President Carter indicate some while back that he liked Edwards? I thought I read that somewhere. Or did I dream it. A link would be nice. We like Jimmy Carter in this house. Very much.
I do dig(g) this post. *g*
Rise Up! Get out of your chairs and participate in democracy. Here’s how World Can’t Wait has been doing it.
Join the next generation of media in Santa Cruz.
Fire up that bullhorn, paint a new sign and join us in Portland for the 5th Anniverary of George Bush’s heinous war crime, the conquest and occupation of a beleaguered nation.
Whoo Hoo! Congratulations!
Here, I suffer with the San Diego County Board of Supervisors suing Debra Bowen over paper and pen ballots. AND SPENDING MY FREAKING MONEY TO DO IT.
Actually, I’m her secretary as it were. She depends on me to give her the important data and info. She is rather a huge brain and is very busy with all manner of things. ;0)
ET - that is awesome! Great work.
It’s a sign…UFO’s in Texas CNN - I’m tellin’ ya, it’s the lizards /s:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/.....index.html
There’s a reason Hillary doesn’t do so hot on the electability factor. The American people are tired of her runaround. We can’t afford to mess around and take chances on a morally iffy candidate.
Barack can take the high road. Hillary has taken the low road and someone ought to call her on it.
I’m not a big fan of Christopher Hitchens as he is often to acerbic. Here is his review of Hillary which in my view is too weak:
http://www.slate.com/id/2182065/
Come on Chris. There is so much “there” there with the Clintons and this is the best you can do? Look at what you are missing:
1. The blatant hypocrisy in Hillary running as a women’s champion when she and Bill would have been relegated to the history books had she not lied, covered up, and apologized for all of Bill’s disgusting, illegal behavior in employing the power of the State to abuse countless women. His use of the State troopers in Arkansas for this outrageous purposes was a well-known running joke. And now the liberal women are running around proclaiming Hillary their champion as she tries once again to use her sex to deceive the public into voting the Clintons back into office.
2. What about the fact that after all her double talk on the Iraq war, not only did she deny she made a mistake in following Bush, but she went right ahead and repeated it in voting for his outrageous warmongering bill declaring Iran’s military to be terrorists - an act of war. Once again, it turned out there was no credible evidence that our alleged enemy had WMD. And once again, when Bush waved around the threat of nukes, he admittedly knew about the NIE finding that Iran stopped it’s nuke development program in 2003 and probably didn’t restart it.
3. Hillary keeps talking about how she’s a “workhorse” in Congress and not a “showhorse” - but what the heck has this junior senator done? What has she had time to do? She’s only been in the Senate two more years than her main opponent and before that never held elected office and yet she says she had superior experience.
4. Hillary trumpets her experience in the White House but won’t release her records as First Lady in time for them to be judged in the Primaries. She says she can take any bullet the right has to offer - she is asking us to take a leap of faith that her records as First Lady which she is too afraid to disclose won’t hurt her. Uh huh. We all know what happened. After her one big shot at healthcare reform she got relegated to visiting foreign dignitaries, presiding over petty scandals, and trying to cover up for more philandering by her out of control spouse.
5. Maybe the reason she keeps talking about false hopes is her experience. She and Bill raised a whole bunch of hopes back in 1992 only to not be able to fulfill them. No healthcare reform. A sellout on fighting discrimination against gays in the military. A President who lied under oath to try to get himself off the hook in a sordid sexual harassment suit. A President who wasn’t aggressive enough in going after al Qaeda. Who abandoned millions in Africa. Who didn’t even try to stand up for anyone in his party but himself and his wife.
Anyway, I’d like to see you take another crack at this Chris. Lame efforts like yours could result in another Clinton leg in the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton failure cycle.
Let’s go Obama!
Ed — Excellent news!
If he pulls this off, and I think he can…Wowee…!
That makes complete sense. I look forward to tomorrow’s debate.
Does anyone know which station and what time off the top of your head?
Time for a letter to the Editor, Laura. Edwards has said he’ll stay in until the convention, and I believe him. Additionally, there’s no reason for him to drop out, especially if he’s carrying a kingmaker’s share of the delegates.
Current delegate count, including superdelegates (who can flip at any time):
Clinton: 187
Obama: 89
Edwards: 50
Needed to win: 2,025
We’ve got a ways to go before this is over.
Arianna Huffington: Say “No” to Pollsters!: a HuffPost Call to Action
Some thoughtful concepts introduced by Arianna, IMHO. I’ll let her speak for herself:
Believe me, I wanna yell “Wowee”, but I can’t get past the fact that Edwards seems better on the issues for me.
That’s why I think an Obama/Edwards ticket would be unstoppable.
Corporate america (MSM included) is afraid of Edwards, because he will take them down an notch or two and push for the people of the powerful and the pundit bobbleheads. He appears to be a true populist and that scares power because he isn’t buyable like a Clinton or an Obama who want to be there so badly they will make nice to anyone who will held them get there.
It should be interesting to see if the people are getting that message and will screw the MSM when they vote.
If the polling PW is reporting is accurate the MSM proves itself completely contemptible, yet again. Nothing new there.
I come from a colorful family myself. Nobody’s for Obama. All are for Edwards.
Had pen in hand to take the bull by the horns, TSF!
The biggest thing that must happen and happen now, is that the Dems must, must, must, must stop all sniping…Now…all of them. Stick to the issue: Bushco - just friggin’ stop it!
He’ll need a shitload of money to do that!
Agreed, but wow have we ever come a long way…in my lifetime…unbelievable!!
Like it or not Edwards got screwed once and I think he would pull an army of lawyers into a post election fight that may be the decisive battle of weather the republic stands or falls or maybe that was 2000 .Either way the Republicans are bona-fide losers weather the vote count reflects that or not.
Hey PW, Kiddo, Pups.
Fighting computer issues at the moment, so all will be delighted that my comment will be semi-brief. But I’m so thrilled to see you Kiddo getting the zed and using it to support Edwards.
We have the finest candidates in the whole extended field of R’s & D’s.!!
Hands down!
We need to focus and watch out for diversionary tactics designed to split Dems even more than the forces caused by having so many excellent candidates being available. I for one do not want to narrow the field too much, too early in the game. I also hope the sniping doesn’t get too bad.
That would be a real shame. I hope candidates will realize that and keep to issues, not personal attack.
He’s been haulin’ the money in…per a diary on Kos that I don’t have the link to.
They don’t know how. And they are afraid of the real issues.
Tomorrow’s Democratic debate is at 6pm pacific time on MSNBC. Per Keith, Dennis Kucinich has won an injunction allowing him to participate, which MSNBC is appealing.
I know this is ground central for Edwards Nation, so any skepticism will not be met happily, but:
It’s fairly curious to me that Edwards’ supporters point to pre-Iowa November and December polls, and think that the snapshot holds true for mid-January.
In national polling, Edwards is at 12%. He’s seen a seven point drop nationally since the day before Iowa.
In bellwether Feb 5 states like California, New York and New Jersey, he’s pulling lower than his national averages. All below the magical 15% viability level that will earn him any delegates, let alone the superdelegates that make up more than a third of total delegates.
In his birth state of South Carolina, he’s barely above the 15% threshold, a distant third.
In North Carolina, his home state. he’s now third in the polling.
The only positive news that has emerged for Edwards since Iowa is a single Research 2000 poll for Nevada, a state fairly impossible to create a likely voter screen for, from a Maryland-based pollster with a shoddy track record, that showed him a close third in the caucuses.
So the case for his viability is based on a single recent poll, and polls weeks or months old, while ignoring a mountain of counter-evidence.
That’s moving the balance of power in the faith-based vs scientific debate too far to the wrong side, IMO.
LiberalHeart, that is good news!
That means there’s still hope for my “colorful” family.
Btw, I just saw KingOneEye’s DK diary where he calls for a campaign to break Ron Paul supporters’ fundraising record this Friday. That sounds like a great idea with big pay-off potential.
Short People got no reason
Short People got no reason
Short People got no reason
To live
They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin’ great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet
Well, I don’t want no Short People
Don’t want no Short People
Don’t want no Short People
Round here
link
Godfather Kissinger is really short.
This has been a wonderful day and i will bid you all a goodnight. So… may Lahoma and i say…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGvCMruyjVg
Important, solid information, PW, thanks. Consider it Dugg.
3) Hillary Clinton is the weakest Democratic candidate in the general election.
Gee, you’d think I’d have noticed and said something about that before now. Oh, wait…
Oh No! More vote fraud caught in the act. What is wrong with Texas? These illegal votes are being done in the Texas legislature. I know Texas is a “whole other country”, but this is ridiculous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQzlHr7gJ0
So is Randy Newman. Ever notice how he sorta has a cajun accent?
Lived half the year in Lafayette, LA when he was growin up.
You’re comparing electability numbers to nomination polling numbers, two very different thing. Apples and oranges indeed.
Since John Edwards was dropped off the matchups we can do a “current” matchup, but what we do know is that before he was dropped, he consistently did as well or better than Obama, and always crushed Clinton.
Those are the facts, and you’re the one spinning like mad. John Edwards is more electable. But the Democratic party, aided by a press that is scared of a real economic populist, is doing its best to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory…yet again.
I’m not going to be gracious if Clinton or Obama gets the nomination and loses when a man who was better on the issues AND more electable was passed up.
Your response was actually to my comment…and they do know how, but maybe they are saving their ammo for the general…but that is what I thought Pelosi was going to do…and then she shot blanks….
They better go there eventually…or we are toast…I refuse to accept defeat this time. I refuse!!!
Christ! PW, Thank you. For just posting this, some truth about the strength of Edwards’ campaign. It’s gotten so if I even see his name in print anywhere I do a double take.
I luv Randy Newman…he took a lot of flack for that song…in fact, I think that song was one of the first “politically incorrect” citations thrown out there….in fact, I think he invented “politically incorrect”! The irony.
I think people are going to be surprised as heck by Nevada.
Why would any network have any decision making ability in such matters? If anything a party should decide or all candidates in a race should be included. Every single Democrat should be as upset about this as Paul supporters were re FOX, imo.
You seem to cover everything except his quality as a candidate, and what that could mean if he gets more exposure.
I am not discouraged. The guy’s got all it takes to be a great leader. I’ll not go into detail. Go anywhere and start reading and listening. Do NOT go by media-mush coverage of the moment. The guy seems genuinely driven to serve the people for all the right reasons, and brimming with talent and drive.
Additionally, Maxwell (to add to Ian’s excellent rebuttal!) the 15% viability threshold applies in caucus states. In states with primaries, candidates who poll less than 15% may still gain delegates.
Like you said, it’s apples and oranges.
Hello. How would you be “polling” if you were not accepting 100 million dollars of corporate campaign backing and your name was not even mentioned in any primary news, unless it was somehow to discredit you. Wake up man.
It is becoming more apparent that Obama is truly the candidate than can bring people together. He can compromise and find common ground. I am sure he will be able to reach accross the aisle and garner Republican support for every program that threatens their stranglehold on power and the corporatocracy. God save us from this “change”. We are so f*cked.
What CarolynU said.
My above #67 was to #50 - Maxwell.
It’s very important that Dennis appear tomorrow nite, I think. We need someone to articulate a true progressive vision on that stage: war, peace, impeachment, war crimes, economic dislocation, and so on. The things the “front-runners” won’t talk about.
Edwards. Yes. Say it over and over. The corporate sheeple mediums try with mass hypnosis to benefit their conventional shake-n-bake wisdoms.
I am glad for these intertubes.
He’s back in the debate, you know.
Kucinich BACK into Nevada debate
Thanks, Teddy.
Hear, here.
better linky
But MSNBC is appealing the ruling.
OT
huffpo: 3,200 Marines Prepare for Afghan Tour
Dennis has the only good solution to health care in my opinion.
PW — I’m sure that Edwards’ comments about media consolidation have also made it clear to corporate media that they have to squelch him.
I haven’t looked at media coverage on the day of the primary in NH; would be interesting to see what Murdoch’s papers were saying about HRC within the 24 hours up to the polls. I’m sure he’s not about to write off the money he sank into her campaign out of the kindness of his evil, black, fascist heart.
He should be! He’s got lots to say on the issues of the day.
I can’t believe they dared to try to cut him out.
Let them all speak, I say. Every one of the Dems brings strength to the message(s).
Well G.E. can just go suck on a rock. *ss*oles.
Only to the corporate whore movie-star types. I would imagine some real journalists would like to level the field a bit.
Ian and Teddy;
I have heard a lot of Presidential candidates. Edwards has struck me like no other. And he is a man for the time. Recession, International scandal over the war policy and jobs are all needs he is qualified to solve. He has presidential timber and a strong leader. We do not need more compromise with big money we need solutions. With a good administration personell we can all roll up our sleeve and right the ship of state.
Pw’s psot says a lot for his electability too. Thank you.
I wish there was some way for me to convert all the energy I use digesting politics into weight loss.
Well Ian, a bunch of us have not climbed aboard the Clinton-Obama express, and for reasons which you and I have discussed in the past, I do not intend to.
It amazes me that thoughtful people who have read your posts over the past few months simply do not grasp that neither Clinton nor Obama have demonstrated a significant grasp of the extent of the economic perils which lie ahead. Nor has either come to understand the depth and consequence of our failed health system.
Neither are what we need nor what we and the rest of the world deserve.
Both are light-weight wannabees who’ve neither the honesty nor the conscience to see what needs to be done or the personal courage and conviction to do it. Both represent the past not the future. Their notion of ‘leadership’ is parochial and ultimately self-serving fluff.
Anybody see Nacho Libre w/ Jack Black????
That is what these elections feel like…
But he wins in the end….
Waving to Teddy
Edwards on media consolidation.
hiya OFG!
Gotta go for tonite guys. ‘puter driving me nuts. Gives me incredible overdose of respect for EW and her live-blogging coup in re libby. These electronic thingies take some getting used to, sigh.
Thanks, and good thots to all you pups. ;->
Me too, Marymac! If you figure it out, let me know!
Don’t worry Adie you will become as addicted as the rest of us in due time.
How can one translate something like that to Mainstream Homelandians….
I know…”Your favorite sports team gets to compete against your favorite sports team and there is only one brand of beer to drink??? You have no choice and no information about anything….Having fun???”
Oh yeah…they like that.
Coors owns the referees!
Hope John Edwards resists the temptation tomorrow night to say to Hillary, “Let’s you and him fight!”
And the referees are all drunks.
I sure hope we can get through this primary without crippling our own party too badly.
America wonders about the economy but America should wonder about defending the Constitution
Barrack Obama’s book called “Audacity of Hope” in the third chapter titled the Constitution is revealing. Of course it has the standard text book commentaries on the wonders of Democracy, the elements of the Constitution, and it’s founders, are tied up here, too loose and not as positive or siding with an open mind. Many of his characterization of the theme in organized constructive government is depressing, negative and leaves out the high value of sharing our founding fathers had is considered hypocrisy, and likely tied to what even he commits to imply, America is not ready for a black president.
Obama, highlights the genius of the Constitution, and specifically the thirtieth, fourteenth, and fiftieth amendments passed as a Union finally perfected. A very amazing statement that does not support harmony and unity Obama makes claim in his “Audacity of Hope” in the beginning Prologue.
In the third chapter page 97 last paragraph he starts with inspiration and ends with doubt, he says,
“How can I, an American with the blood of Africa coursing through my veins, choose sides in such a dispute? I can’t, I love America too much, am too invested in what this country has become, too committed to its institutions, its beauty, and even its ugliness, to focus entirely on the circumstances of its birth. But neither can I brush aside the magnitude of the injustice done, or erase the ghosts of generations past, or ignore the open wound, the aching spirit, that ails this country still”.
Very well said to cast away the founding circumstance of freedom and liberty from tyranny, casting away the birth of Americas Constitution? An incredible thing to say all while giving love and praise for beauty and ugliness. The biggest uncertainty is the very last statement suggested by Obama. But what are the Ghosts of past generations, or the open wounds, what is that acing spirit that ails the country. And, please, Senator Obama, if you don’t know what they are how do you expect to unite and change the country or the world ?
For in the beginning of Obama’s Prologue He said: “ That’s the topic of this book: how we might begin the process of changing our politics and our civic life. This isn’t to say that I know exactly how to do it. I don’t. Although I discuss in each chapter a number of our most pressing policy challenges, and suggest in broad strokes the path I believe we should follow, my treatment of the issues is often partial and incomplete. I offer no unifying theory of American government, nor do these pages provide a manifesto for action, complete with chats and graphs, timetables, and ten-point plans”.
From the Prologue to the third chapter is a monumental contradiction of ideals and personal thoughts Obama presents. A grand surprise for someone that taught the Constitution at the University of Chicago for ten years. A very sad surprise. Obama admits in the very start He doesn’t know how he would do anything. But clearly in his campaign speeches offers change you can believe in. Very extraordinary. So what are the Ghosts of past generations? What do does Obama mean about not to focus entirely on the circumstances of Americas birth?
bless yer heart. my addiction is already thoroughly entrenched. my present problem is that we finally have a decent laptop, & getting used to the keyboard, plus the fact that the wireless mouse sometimes refuses to recognize that I am ITS boss. yeah… right…
i feel like i’m experiencing an electronic version of the obama-clinton pseudo-squabble… sigh.
You mean Obama? I thought he sounded like he would side with Obama over Hillary.