In the wake of Barack Obama’s non-win over Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire, the punditti have been making various wailing noises over how awful it is that they were so wrong and all that. But for all the hubbub over the New Hampshire pre-primary polls and how accurate or inaccurate they were, it’s rather interesting that some polls that may have more import have got comparatively minimal coverage.
I speak of the CNN and Rasmussen polls that provide national head-to-head match-ups of presidential candidates. And for months now — at least, until CNN left off a couple of candidates this time around –both of these polls have been saying similar things about the strengths and weaknesses of the major candidates, things that aren’t being told to us in the evening TV news or on the cable gabfests.
Here are the current Rasmussen head-to-head match-ups for the various Republican candidates against the Democrats:
A few things should be immediately apparent:
1) McCain is by far the GOP’s strongest candidate in the general election. (Rudy would be stronger, but he’s not going to make it past South Carolina, much less to the nomination.) He trounces Hillary 49% to 38%, and beats Obama 46% to 43%. In fact, the only Democrat who beats him is none other than John Edwards, who decisively beats McCain 46% to 39%.
This is why it’s a good idea for Michigan Democrats to engage once again in the time-honored tradition of crossover primary voting to vote for Romney and deny McCain a win in the Michigan primary: It blunts McCain’s momentum, and convinces Romney to stay in the race at least through the South Carolina primary, which is a good thing as Romney will force McCain to spend money he doesn’t have on him to spend. (And if Romney does win the nomination, he’s much easier to beat, money or no money.)
2) John Edwards is by far the Democrats’ strongest candidate in the general election. He is the only one who is not beaten outright by any Republican candidate: He ties with Giuliani at 44% each, but easily beats McCain, Thompson, Romney, and Huckabee, the latter two by double-digit margins.
3) Hillary Clinton is the weakest Democratic candidate in the general election. She loses to every single Republican except Fred Thompson, Tom Tancredo, and Ron Paul, and none of those gents is going to get the Republican nomination for president.
4) Barack Obama is in between Edwards and Hillary Clinton in strength in the general election. He does much better against Rudy Giuliani than either Edwards or Clinton, beaing Giuliani 37% to 47%, yet against every other Republican, especially McCain and Romney, Edwards is the Democrat that does the best.
Of course, this is just one pollster, and though Rasmussen is probably the best of the lot, it behooves us to look at other polls to see if similar patterns obtain. Luckily for us, CNN has been doing nationwide head-to-head polling as well, and in their December polling, the same patterns manifest: Edwards is the strongest Dem, Hillary is the weakest, Obama is somewhere in between — and John McCain is the GOP’s strongest player. CNN’s current January polling is somewhat kinder to Clinton, but it’s also missing Edwards, so there’s no way to see if the patterns still hold with him in the mix.
The upshot of all this: If Hillary’s the Democratic nominee, we could very easily lose to any likely GOP nominee. If Obama’s the nominee, he does OK so long as he doesn’t face McCain. But if Edwards is the nominee, we’re sitting pretty. Which, I suspect, is one reason why Big Media hates John Edwards so much and does everything it can to destroy him. (Speaking of which: KingOneEye at DailyKos pointed out this morning how the NYT is ignoring a key result of its own poll on the race — namely, that as more people get to know him, Edwards’ favorability rating keeps going up.)



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We in this house like Edwards.
PW!
Our next president:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/le…..d_full.jpg
That’s why we delivered Fayette County Iowa, a rural conservative stronghold for John Edwards. Go get em in Oklahoma OKK!
So what can be done to get him the good headlines he needs and the visibility?
OT – but good news.
I just got e-mailed by Alaskans For Clean Elections. We’ve been working to get our election process on a whole new footing, and getting petitions for a ballot initiative calling for major campaign finance reform on the November ballot.
Here’s what Michelle Meyer the campaign manager, just sent:
THANK YOU everyone who helped us take this first step towards Clean Elections in Alaska.
Alaskans for Clean Elections turned in over 32,000 signatures to the Division of Elections today and
thanks to a whole host of volunteers, we had already verified 23,920. The total we needed to get was
23,831. So barring any unforeseen occurrences, we’ll be on the 2008 ballot.
To everyone outside of Anchorage please know that we’ll be thinking of you and we thank you again for
your hard work. We needed to get a significant percentage of signatures in 30 out of 40 state house
districts and we did it in 34 districts! To your credit, we anticipate that a full third, or 11,000 signatures,
have been gathered by volunteers. I think this might be a new high number for volunteer participation in
initiative signature gathering in Alaska!
Hey there PW.
Corporate media ain’t out to inform ya know!
I take it you are an Edwards supporter. ;0)
It’s also what the right leaning triangulators don’t want us to know.. They really have run to far right.
That Demo (in your pix) has my vote! That’s the picture of a candidate for change. ;0)
Wonderful and Ive heard this about Edwards from the beginning. He’s staying in, let the chips fall!
Did anyone listen to the goleft piece? They are talking about Edwards as a winner. He gets his agenda out there plus stands a chance for the nomination. His beliefs are a cause as well as a campaign.
http://goleft.tv/view.asp?v=905
The front page of my local paper today had a (local) university prof stating that Edwards is “done” and will probably drop out before Super Tues. The reporter repeatedly spoke of the Demo primary as a two-person race, with occasional head nods toward Edwards. Out-f-ing-rageous. On the other hand, it’s nice to know I can save a stamp and not mail in my ballot…..
I agree that Edwards is probably the surest bet for the General election..if people would get out and vote. When I mentioned Edwards to my sister, her reaction was not another “White Southern Male”. She is an Obama supporter, doesn’t think Hillary can win. Would Edwards get the “bodies” to the polls?
Excellent post PW. I occasionally talk politics with people in rural NC (here on my extended, and maybe soon permanent “visit”).
It’s discouraging. They are not even rational on the topic of Hillary. These are educated, generally moderate voters –who all supported Gore and Kerry. Their vehemence against her is chilling.
Most are holding out hope for Edwards. They see either HC or BO as playing into the Repubs hands … sure losers in the general.
I have always thought that certain math types were biased. I mean if we can have “right triangles”, why can’t we have “left-triangles”? I just don’t get it. ;0)
Apples to oranges.
You’re comparing polls taken for Edwards during mid-December, prior to Iowa and New Hampshire, to polls taken in mid-January for Clinton and Obama. McCain was way down in the polls in Nov and Dec. His resurgence has only come in the past two weeks.
Obama was leading McCain in early December as well, for instance.
As a black man I have to say that Edwards may not be able to break through the protective shield that many people are beginning to erect around Obama.
When I called home over the weekend and talked politics with my relatives there was no one interested in even considering Edwards over Obama. There is a real sense that we (the black community) are hoisting Obama into the sphere of MLK.
I get the feeling that many African Americans feel that if a black man becomes president we may truly have “overcome”.
This is just my sense of how my family is feeling, obviously I can’t speak for the entire black community.
Because if the left triangulated with the Libertarians there would be no more war.
That settles that. May I pass this on to the woman (Lahoma) upstairs? ;0)
Hi, everyone!
Sorry I’m late — wanted to make sure every body got their zeds.
I thought she knew everything. *s*
And Vice President.
Who will serve in the Cabinet??
How are you, PW?
Please Digg this post!
Help me out. Seriously. Did Former President Carter indicate some while back that he liked Edwards? I thought I read that somewhere. Or did I dream it. A link would be nice. We like Jimmy Carter in this house. Very much.
I do dig(g) this post. *g*
Rise Up! Get out of your chairs and participate in democracy. Here’s how World Can’t Wait has been doing it.
Join the next generation of media in Santa Cruz.
Fire up that bullhorn, paint a new sign and join us in Portland for the 5th Anniverary of George Bush’s heinous war crime, the conquest and occupation of a beleaguered nation.
Whoo Hoo! Congratulations!
Here, I suffer with the San Diego County Board of Supervisors suing Debra Bowen over paper and pen ballots. AND SPENDING MY FREAKING MONEY TO DO IT.
Actually, I’m her secretary as it were. She depends on me to give her the important data and info. She is rather a huge brain and is very busy with all manner of things. ;0)
ET – that is awesome! Great work.
It’s a sign…UFO’s in Texas CNN – I’m tellin’ ya, it’s the lizards /s:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/…..index.html
There’s a reason Hillary doesn’t do so hot on the electability factor. The American people are tired of her runaround. We can’t afford to mess around and take chances on a morally iffy candidate.
Barack can take the high road. Hillary has taken the low road and someone ought to call her on it.
I’m not a big fan of Christopher Hitchens as he is often to acerbic. Here is his review of Hillary which in my view is too weak:
http://www.slate.com/id/2182065/
Come on Chris. There is so much “there” there with the Clintons and this is the best you can do? Look at what you are missing:
1. The blatant hypocrisy in Hillary running as a women’s champion when she and Bill would have been relegated to the history books had she not lied, covered up, and apologized for all of Bill’s disgusting, illegal behavior in employing the power of the State to abuse countless women. His use of the State troopers in Arkansas for this outrageous purposes was a well-known running joke. And now the liberal women are running around proclaiming Hillary their champion as she tries once again to use her sex to deceive the public into voting the Clintons back into office.
2. What about the fact that after all her double talk on the Iraq war, not only did she deny she made a mistake in following Bush, but she went right ahead and repeated it in voting for his outrageous warmongering bill declaring Iran’s military to be terrorists – an act of war. Once again, it turned out there was no credible evidence that our alleged enemy had WMD. And once again, when Bush waved around the threat of nukes, he admittedly knew about the NIE finding that Iran stopped it’s nuke development program in 2003 and probably didn’t restart it.
3. Hillary keeps talking about how she’s a “workhorse” in Congress and not a “showhorse” – but what the heck has this junior senator done? What has she had time to do? She’s only been in the Senate two more years than her main opponent and before that never held elected office and yet she says she had superior experience.
4. Hillary trumpets her experience in the White House but won’t release her records as First Lady in time for them to be judged in the Primaries. She says she can take any bullet the right has to offer – she is asking us to take a leap of faith that her records as First Lady which she is too afraid to disclose won’t hurt her. Uh huh. We all know what happened. After her one big shot at healthcare reform she got relegated to visiting foreign dignitaries, presiding over petty scandals, and trying to cover up for more philandering by her out of control spouse.
5. Maybe the reason she keeps talking about false hopes is her experience. She and Bill raised a whole bunch of hopes back in 1992 only to not be able to fulfill them. No healthcare reform. A sellout on fighting discrimination against gays in the military. A President who lied under oath to try to get himself off the hook in a sordid sexual harassment suit. A President who wasn’t aggressive enough in going after al Qaeda. Who abandoned millions in Africa. Who didn’t even try to stand up for anyone in his party but himself and his wife.
Anyway, I’d like to see you take another crack at this Chris. Lame efforts like yours could result in another Clinton leg in the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton failure cycle.
Let’s go Obama!
Ed — Excellent news!
If he pulls this off, and I think he can…Wowee…!
That makes complete sense. I look forward to tomorrow’s debate.
Does anyone know which station and what time off the top of your head?
Time for a letter to the Editor, Laura. Edwards has said he’ll stay in until the convention, and I believe him. Additionally, there’s no reason for him to drop out, especially if he’s carrying a kingmaker’s share of the delegates.
Current delegate count, including superdelegates (who can flip at any time):
Clinton: 187
Obama: 89
Edwards: 50
Needed to win: 2,025
We’ve got a ways to go before this is over.
Arianna Huffington: Say “No” to Pollsters!: a HuffPost Call to Action
Some thoughtful concepts introduced by Arianna, IMHO. I’ll let her speak for herself:
Believe me, I wanna yell “Wowee”, but I can’t get past the fact that Edwards seems better on the issues for me.
That’s why I think an Obama/Edwards ticket would be unstoppable.
Corporate america (MSM included) is afraid of Edwards, because he will take them down an notch or two and push for the people of the powerful and the pundit bobbleheads. He appears to be a true populist and that scares power because he isn’t buyable like a Clinton or an Obama who want to be there so badly they will make nice to anyone who will held them get there.
It should be interesting to see if the people are getting that message and will screw the MSM when they vote.
If the polling PW is reporting is accurate the MSM proves itself completely contemptible, yet again. Nothing new there.
I come from a colorful family myself. Nobody’s for Obama. All are for Edwards.
Had pen in hand to take the bull by the horns, TSF!
The biggest thing that must happen and happen now, is that the Dems must, must, must, must stop all sniping…Now…all of them. Stick to the issue: Bushco – just friggin’ stop it!
He’ll need a shitload of money to do that!
Agreed, but wow have we ever come a long way…in my lifetime…unbelievable!!
Like it or not Edwards got screwed once and I think he would pull an army of lawyers into a post election fight that may be the decisive battle of weather the republic stands or falls or maybe that was 2000 .Either way the Republicans are bona-fide losers weather the vote count reflects that or not.
Hey PW, Kiddo, Pups.
Fighting computer issues at the moment, so all will be delighted that my comment will be semi-brief. But I’m so thrilled to see you Kiddo getting the zed and using it to support Edwards.
We have the finest candidates in the whole extended field of R’s & D’s.!!
Hands down!
We need to focus and watch out for diversionary tactics designed to split Dems even more than the forces caused by having so many excellent candidates being available. I for one do not want to narrow the field too much, too early in the game. I also hope the sniping doesn’t get too bad.
That would be a real shame. I hope candidates will realize that and keep to issues, not personal attack.
He’s been haulin’ the money in…per a diary on Kos that I don’t have the link to.
They don’t know how. And they are afraid of the real issues.
Tomorrow’s Democratic debate is at 6pm pacific time on MSNBC. Per Keith, Dennis Kucinich has won an injunction allowing him to participate, which MSNBC is appealing.
I know this is ground central for Edwards Nation, so any skepticism will not be met happily, but:
It’s fairly curious to me that Edwards’ supporters point to pre-Iowa November and December polls, and think that the snapshot holds true for mid-January.
In national polling, Edwards is at 12%. He’s seen a seven point drop nationally since the day before Iowa.
In bellwether Feb 5 states like California, New York and New Jersey, he’s pulling lower than his national averages. All below the magical 15% viability level that will earn him any delegates, let alone the superdelegates that make up more than a third of total delegates.
In his birth state of South Carolina, he’s barely above the 15% threshold, a distant third.
In North Carolina, his home state. he’s now third in the polling.
The only positive news that has emerged for Edwards since Iowa is a single Research 2000 poll for Nevada, a state fairly impossible to create a likely voter screen for, from a Maryland-based pollster with a shoddy track record, that showed him a close third in the caucuses.
So the case for his viability is based on a single recent poll, and polls weeks or months old, while ignoring a mountain of counter-evidence.
That’s moving the balance of power in the faith-based vs scientific debate too far to the wrong side, IMO.
LiberalHeart, that is good news!
That means there’s still hope for my “colorful” family.
Btw, I just saw KingOneEye’s DK diary where he calls for a campaign to break Ron Paul supporters’ fundraising record this Friday. That sounds like a great idea with big pay-off potential.
Short People got no reason
Short People got no reason
Short People got no reason
To live
They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin’ great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet
Well, I don’t want no Short People
Don’t want no Short People
Don’t want no Short People
Round here
link
Godfather Kissinger is really short.
This has been a wonderful day and i will bid you all a goodnight. So… may Lahoma and i say…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGvCMruyjVg
Important, solid information, PW, thanks. Consider it Dugg.
3) Hillary Clinton is the weakest Democratic candidate in the general election.
Gee, you’d think I’d have noticed and said something about that before now. Oh, wait…
Oh No! More vote fraud caught in the act. What is wrong with Texas? These illegal votes are being done in the Texas legislature. I know Texas is a “whole other country”, but this is ridiculous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQzlHr7gJ0
So is Randy Newman. Ever notice how he sorta has a cajun accent?
Lived half the year in Lafayette, LA when he was growin up.
You’re comparing electability numbers to nomination polling numbers, two very different thing. Apples and oranges indeed.
Since John Edwards was dropped off the matchups we can do a “current” matchup, but what we do know is that before he was dropped, he consistently did as well or better than Obama, and always crushed Clinton.
Those are the facts, and you’re the one spinning like mad. John Edwards is more electable. But the Democratic party, aided by a press that is scared of a real economic populist, is doing its best to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory…yet again.
I’m not going to be gracious if Clinton or Obama gets the nomination and loses when a man who was better on the issues AND more electable was passed up.
Your response was actually to my comment…and they do know how, but maybe they are saving their ammo for the general…but that is what I thought Pelosi was going to do…and then she shot blanks….
They better go there eventually…or we are toast…I refuse to accept defeat this time. I refuse!!!
Christ! PW, Thank you. For just posting this, some truth about the strength of Edwards’ campaign. It’s gotten so if I even see his name in print anywhere I do a double take.
I luv Randy Newman…he took a lot of flack for that song…in fact, I think that song was one of the first “politically incorrect” citations thrown out there….in fact, I think he invented “politically incorrect”! The irony.
I think people are going to be surprised as heck by Nevada.
Why would any network have any decision making ability in such matters? If anything a party should decide or all candidates in a race should be included. Every single Democrat should be as upset about this as Paul supporters were re FOX, imo.
You seem to cover everything except his quality as a candidate, and what that could mean if he gets more exposure.
I am not discouraged. The guy’s got all it takes to be a great leader. I’ll not go into detail. Go anywhere and start reading and listening. Do NOT go by media-mush coverage of the moment. The guy seems genuinely driven to serve the people for all the right reasons, and brimming with talent and drive.
Additionally, Maxwell (to add to Ian’s excellent rebuttal!) the 15% viability threshold applies in caucus states. In states with primaries, candidates who poll less than 15% may still gain delegates.
Like you said, it’s apples and oranges.
Hello. How would you be “polling” if you were not accepting 100 million dollars of corporate campaign backing and your name was not even mentioned in any primary news, unless it was somehow to discredit you. Wake up man.
It is becoming more apparent that Obama is truly the candidate than can bring people together. He can compromise and find common ground. I am sure he will be able to reach accross the aisle and garner Republican support for every program that threatens their stranglehold on power and the corporatocracy. God save us from this “change”. We are so f*cked.
What CarolynU said.
My above #67 was to #50 – Maxwell.
It’s very important that Dennis appear tomorrow nite, I think. We need someone to articulate a true progressive vision on that stage: war, peace, impeachment, war crimes, economic dislocation, and so on. The things the “front-runners” won’t talk about.
Edwards. Yes. Say it over and over. The corporate sheeple mediums try with mass hypnosis to benefit their conventional shake-n-bake wisdoms.
I am glad for these intertubes.
He’s back in the debate, you know.
Kucinich BACK into Nevada debate
Thanks, Teddy.
Hear, here.
better linky
But MSNBC is appealing the ruling.
OT
huffpo: 3,200 Marines Prepare for Afghan Tour
Dennis has the only good solution to health care in my opinion.
PW — I’m sure that Edwards’ comments about media consolidation have also made it clear to corporate media that they have to squelch him.
I haven’t looked at media coverage on the day of the primary in NH; would be interesting to see what Murdoch’s papers were saying about HRC within the 24 hours up to the polls. I’m sure he’s not about to write off the money he sank into her campaign out of the kindness of his evil, black, fascist heart.
He should be! He’s got lots to say on the issues of the day.
I can’t believe they dared to try to cut him out.
Let them all speak, I say. Every one of the Dems brings strength to the message(s).
Well G.E. can just go suck on a rock. *ss*oles.
Only to the corporate whore movie-star types. I would imagine some real journalists would like to level the field a bit.
Ian and Teddy;
I have heard a lot of Presidential candidates. Edwards has struck me like no other. And he is a man for the time. Recession, International scandal over the war policy and jobs are all needs he is qualified to solve. He has presidential timber and a strong leader. We do not need more compromise with big money we need solutions. With a good administration personell we can all roll up our sleeve and right the ship of state.
Pw’s psot says a lot for his electability too. Thank you.
I wish there was some way for me to convert all the energy I use digesting politics into weight loss.
Well Ian, a bunch of us have not climbed aboard the Clinton-Obama express, and for reasons which you and I have discussed in the past, I do not intend to.
It amazes me that thoughtful people who have read your posts over the past few months simply do not grasp that neither Clinton nor Obama have demonstrated a significant grasp of the extent of the economic perils which lie ahead. Nor has either come to understand the depth and consequence of our failed health system.
Neither are what we need nor what we and the rest of the world deserve.
Both are light-weight wannabees who’ve neither the honesty nor the conscience to see what needs to be done or the personal courage and conviction to do it. Both represent the past not the future. Their notion of ‘leadership’ is parochial and ultimately self-serving fluff.
Anybody see Nacho Libre w/ Jack Black????
That is what these elections feel like…
But he wins in the end….
Waving to Teddy
Edwards on media consolidation.
hiya OFG!
Gotta go for tonite guys. ‘puter driving me nuts. Gives me incredible overdose of respect for EW and her live-blogging coup in re libby. These electronic thingies take some getting used to, sigh.
Thanks, and good thots to all you pups. ;->
Me too, Marymac! If you figure it out, let me know!
Don’t worry Adie you will become as addicted as the rest of us in due time.
How can one translate something like that to Mainstream Homelandians….
I know…”Your favorite sports team gets to compete against your favorite sports team and there is only one brand of beer to drink??? You have no choice and no information about anything….Having fun???”
Oh yeah…they like that.
Coors owns the referees!
Hope John Edwards resists the temptation tomorrow night to say to Hillary, “Let’s you and him fight!”
And the referees are all drunks.
I sure hope we can get through this primary without crippling our own party too badly.
America wonders about the economy but America should wonder about defending the Constitution
Barrack Obama’s book called “Audacity of Hope” in the third chapter titled the Constitution is revealing. Of course it has the standard text book commentaries on the wonders of Democracy, the elements of the Constitution, and it’s founders, are tied up here, too loose and not as positive or siding with an open mind. Many of his characterization of the theme in organized constructive government is depressing, negative and leaves out the high value of sharing our founding fathers had is considered hypocrisy, and likely tied to what even he commits to imply, America is not ready for a black president.
Obama, highlights the genius of the Constitution, and specifically the thirtieth, fourteenth, and fiftieth amendments passed as a Union finally perfected. A very amazing statement that does not support harmony and unity Obama makes claim in his “Audacity of Hope” in the beginning Prologue.
In the third chapter page 97 last paragraph he starts with inspiration and ends with doubt, he says,
“How can I, an American with the blood of Africa coursing through my veins, choose sides in such a dispute? I can’t, I love America too much, am too invested in what this country has become, too committed to its institutions, its beauty, and even its ugliness, to focus entirely on the circumstances of its birth. But neither can I brush aside the magnitude of the injustice done, or erase the ghosts of generations past, or ignore the open wound, the aching spirit, that ails this country still”.
Very well said to cast away the founding circumstance of freedom and liberty from tyranny, casting away the birth of Americas Constitution? An incredible thing to say all while giving love and praise for beauty and ugliness. The biggest uncertainty is the very last statement suggested by Obama. But what are the Ghosts of past generations, or the open wounds, what is that acing spirit that ails the country. And, please, Senator Obama, if you don’t know what they are how do you expect to unite and change the country or the world ?
For in the beginning of Obama’s Prologue He said: “ That’s the topic of this book: how we might begin the process of changing our politics and our civic life. This isn’t to say that I know exactly how to do it. I don’t. Although I discuss in each chapter a number of our most pressing policy challenges, and suggest in broad strokes the path I believe we should follow, my treatment of the issues is often partial and incomplete. I offer no unifying theory of American government, nor do these pages provide a manifesto for action, complete with chats and graphs, timetables, and ten-point plans”.
From the Prologue to the third chapter is a monumental contradiction of ideals and personal thoughts Obama presents. A grand surprise for someone that taught the Constitution at the University of Chicago for ten years. A very sad surprise. Obama admits in the very start He doesn’t know how he would do anything. But clearly in his campaign speeches offers change you can believe in. Very extraordinary. So what are the Ghosts of past generations? What do does Obama mean about not to focus entirely on the circumstances of Americas birth?
bless yer heart. my addiction is already thoroughly entrenched. my present problem is that we finally have a decent laptop, & getting used to the keyboard, plus the fact that the wireless mouse sometimes refuses to recognize that I am ITS boss. yeah… right…
i feel like i’m experiencing an electronic version of the obama-clinton pseudo-squabble… sigh.
You mean Obama? I thought he sounded like he would side with Obama over Hillary.
‘Twould be interesting indeed if the moribund party at the end of this election ‘cycle’ were the Timidocrats. No?
But so richly deserved. Yes?
I think this is a false flag. Our party has been crippled for a long time. The question for me is will we stand for it again.
It’s always better to win, and even if Edwards doesn’t get the nod I want Dems to win. That said, if they don’t the silver lining is fairly simple: not being blamed for/in charge when the economic train wreck occurs. The next president is very likely to be Hoover, in effect, and unless Clinton or Obama are able to change their minds and react with greater flexibility than they’ve shown so far, they won’t be able to handle it. Even Edwards would have had a hard time of it, but I feel that he’s the only one who is at least pointed in the right direction.
Any of the Republicans, of course, will completely blow it. Huckabee in particular would be an unmitigated disaster.
You didn’t dream it. Edwards went down to Georgia (Americus) minutes from where the Carters live August 29. 2007 and Carter welcomed him there. He praised Edwards, and the Carters have never been close to the Clintons, and he endorsed Gore when Gore ran. To date, Carter hasn’t endorsed a candidate in the 2008 election.
Carter Welcomes John Edwards to Georgia
No, they are going to take it lying down.
PW. Again, I can’t thank you enough for this post.
The candidates start doing what candidates do, and then the pundits & “reporters” start skewing and sliding all over the dang place for their various reasons, shoved around like chess pieces by who knows what or whom.
This kind of sunshine can be just the thing to help us take our country back, or at least give it a good shot.
Bravo and Thank You!
Yeah. That was my thought.
Could it be the Edwards campaign reads the same polls? Hence the “2 states down, 48 more to go!” speech in the post New Hampshire wake. There is no doubt the MSM is doing everything possible to blunt his efforts. But if he pulls of Nevada it will be a shocker. Then we might see some coverage.
Trumandem
Truman’s Conscience
The Buck Stopped Here
Re:
I dunno. Sounds kinda monochromatic to me.
Now I think my family might be more polychromatic. I’m, of course, at the end of the spectrum that features candidates who usually garner 1% of the vote. Arianna for Governor, the socialists in every election, Mike Gravel and Dennis the Red Menace. OTOH, I’ve got a brother-in-law who couldn’t decide earlier between Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo. He’ll settle for “Mayor 9/12″ I reckon.
We work, fight, wheel-and-deal, force this system back toward honesty and transparency, one school board, assembly, city council, state legislative, US House, US Senate, and US Presidential vacancy at a time. We do it through participating, even when our best candidate isn’t exactly what we wanted.
In the words of that noted philosopher, we attack, Attack, ATTACK, ATTACK!!!
And pigs may fly about quacking.
I am not so sure about the bless yer heart part. :)
Yes Ian, I should prefer that the dems win, but as you imply, winning and boldingly and intentionally doing the wrong things or half-heartedly doing the ‘right’things, because their view is too narrow or their resolve too weak spells unmitigated disaster, that for most folks will not be much better than republican ’success’.
I once worked for them. I fully agree with your assessment. And for the record, I resigned and not under duress, either.
I think we really need to accept two truths: 1) every election with Diebold machines will be rigged to serve the neocons, and 2) the mainstream media is a propaganda tool of the neocons. Denial of these realities underlies a lot of what appears to be confusion in the analysis of election results: acceptance of these realities makes everything simple and clear and subject to Occam’s Razor.
LOL. Meant in the best of ways, I’m sure.
Phoenix Woman, this is by far the most aggravating aspect of the primary coverage. To me it smacks of blatant manipulation on the part of the press. As strong as Edwards’ numbers are, it would be a pity if his sole purpose in this primary campaign is to edge Obama and Clinton of their more rightward marks. And, if it weren’t for Edwards, I don’t think we’d see either Obama or Clinton fleshing out their policies, or political stances as clearly as they are. I’m not sure how it would work, but if Obama gets the nod over Clinton, he will absolutely need Edwards’ support to take it in the General.
Nope. These are both now totally true of our election system, sad to say.
Paul Krugman does an excellent parsing of Obama’s Economic Policy…
http://www.commondreams.org/ar…..1/14/6358/
(Jeez, I’m trying to help my son study for his first mid term Algebra exam, on the one hand. On the other, an actual post about my man, John Edwards!) Groan.
Adie!
Re:
Trust me on this… The one thing no candidate wants to talk about is issues. So get ready for horse race handicapping, more personal grooming stories and hagiography about the candidate’s spouses, but don’t allow yourself to be too disappointed that a candidate who wants to be all things to all people will assiduously sidestep any chance encounter with policy discusssion.
Fired Up, Ready to Go For Change Low Taxes Support the Troops Our Friends in Israel Fiscal Responsibility Protect Social Security Reform Social Security Save Social Security Education Our Children blah blah blah…
I am afraid that the Republican rot has damaged the economy beyond the scope of any “economic plan”.
it’s a good thing. ;->
[this from someone who first learned to type by typing a perfect copy {HAD TO BE PERFECT, or wasn’t acceptable], NO typos, NO erasures, NO white-out, NO “Enter” “Backspace” “Delete” “Shift” “Caps Loc”; NO special labels or cut & paste. He got his PhD, & I got my MS, in spite of….
This current electronitrubble is actually fun. Besides, we hatched a computer-wizard who is a genuinely dear sonnyboy who kindly saves us from ourselves on a regular basis.
I know deadeye HATES the fact that such as we have computer access, and that we’re joining up and working together. That not only makes my day. It keeps me going. ;->
((((peace))))
ohgoodgawd… for the sake of truth in advertising piled upon free use of a common language:
secular humanist here
Ha ha me too. Proud member of the rabble. Fonna be stormin those fortresses pretty soon.
Oh crap. Read first, then submit. Gonna, not, fonna.
I know. Believe me I know. Mebbe if enuf of us write it & say it, at least something in their hindbrains will feel a quiver of discomfort, sigh..
May I presume to explain?
“Bless Her/His Heart.” = Southern knife to the back.
Now a FDL thingie.
My man (kiddo is asleep) and I reject you Mr. Bush because of your crimes against humanity. And children in particular. You should be ashamed of yourself. Perhaps God will have mercy on you.
Lahoma
Short of a ‘Marshall Plan’ or ‘New Deal’, yes!
Hi Maxwell,
You are kindly invited to join those of us in the reality based community who think that polls are a ridiculous adjunct to the horse-race mentality that is turning all of us into Racking Horse rumps.
Join the Just-Say-No-To-Polls Revolution!
[Further proof of the irrelevancy of polls in Presidential politics.]
And say “yes” to John Edwars message of hope for the werkenstiff.
Alternet has an informative video by Democrats for Romney. “There is no greater voice against Republican candidates than this Republican candidate.”
http://www.alternet.org/
Mary, Mary Quite Contrary,
I’ve figured out how to make Dennis’s Garden Grow! He needs to study “Political Science“! And change policy:
No one likes us-I don’t know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let’s drop the big one and see what happens
We give them money-but are they grateful?
No, they’re spiteful and they’re hateful
They don’t respect us-so let’s surprise them
We’ll drop the big one and pulverize them
Asia’s crowded and Europe’s too old
Africa is far too hot
And Canada’s too cold
And South America stole our name
Let’s drop the big one
There’ll be no one left to blame us
We’ll save Australia
Don’t wanna hurt no kangaroo
We’ll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin’, too
Boom goes London and boom Paree
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town
Oh, how peaceful it will be
We’ll set everybody free
You’ll wear a Japanese kimono
And there’ll be Italian shoes for me
They all hate us anyhow
So let’s drop the big one now
Let’s drop the big one now
marymcurnin: hmm…cultural differences. Up here (vermont) we don’t say bless your heart, we just let the dogs out.
By the way, I had a great science teacher named McCurnin, in the 60’s. Connecticut. Related?
Giggling here about monochromatic.
Seems you and I are the kiss of death for candidates. I have a voting track record similar to yours.
Good Evening Lahoma,
Very good to ’see’ you here.
I hope that you might stay for a while and share some thoughts and dreams with us. You are heiress to a rich cosmology more vast and deeper than many of us.
Prolly. Many relatives in NJ which I am told is right close to Connecticut.
I’d be happy if we could just get the picture of Glenn Beck off the front page of HuffPo. It’s been there forever. Lying down, no less. It creeps me out.
Thanks. That one was worth a bookmark. :)
suffering from mind/finger synapse collapse.
…more vast and deeper than many of us can imagine.
Aw shaw! Now if you’d a said pea-pickin’ heart…..
We on same page. I’d run a-x that a month or so ago & didn’ realize it was so, um, “formalized”. Parents from s. midwest., so purt-nigh familiar with a bunch of similar…
thanks for reminder.
actually had grand time 2-3 nites ago teasin’ by using similar – not apparently detected then as such, but cover’s blown as of now (barely upthred) sh-h-h.
Confession: LOW tolerance for pompous blowhards.
skiddaddlezoomflash——–
I believe Randy Newman was born in N’Orleans…
Aaron Neville covers “Louisiana 1927” when New Orleans did not flood.
You right.
Watertiger has a nice new “Help Wanted” post upstairs!
Re:
Thank God for consistency, you’d hate to see the Dems flip-flop into a victory lane here.
Speak for yourself. I’m of Celtic blood.
I vaguely recall one event in NH where Carter joined him on the stage. I don’t know if Carter just waved to the crowd or gave a speech. Still, he seems a bit closer to Edwards than to the other Dem candidates.
No Dear, I Left.
Druidic?
Not too. Few hours south, anyway.
I like to think so.
You people are the greatest. Our daughter, who lives in La Jolla, Cali, reads all your stuff. And she likes it. I’m going upstairs. I sense the kiddo wants me to come to bed. He doesn’t like for me to be away for too long.
L.
BTW, DWBartoo, I liked your comment to Lahoma, I’m just fooling with you. I am Celtic though, and I love the thought of all our ancestors.
I’m fascinated by the cosmologies of all autochthonous peoples and the
Celts are among them. You have a heritage which you properly cherish.
I appreciate knowing this about you.
Re:
I see it differently. I think both view the election much like a game of Texas hold’em where the smart players always hide their hold cards (i.e. their positions) as a closely guarded secret.
Which reminds me of one of Warren Buffett’s stories. He says that life’s like a game of poker. If you sit down at the table and you can’t figure out within two hands who the sucker is, it’s you.
Oh aye, but then ’tis not merely their own stakes they are playin’ with or for, and even if they ‘lose’ they run but little personal risk. Whereas should they ‘blow’ it big time, others will suffer, whether ‘gamely’ or not.
Or, to fracture Pogo: ‘We have met the sucker, and it is us …’
If this was still a democracy, Edwards would win the nomination and the presidency. Corporate America will not allow Edwards to gain the nomination. He could be out polling all the GOP candidates by 99% each. It wouldn’t change a thing. I will vote for him in the Illinois primary, since I am not a Corporate Democrat like Harry and Nancy.
Re:
Recall that misty-eyed moment for Hillary that probably garnered her a few thousand votes in New Hampshire. What was she getting emotional about? To paraphrase her, she was lamenting that she ‘wouldn’t be able to lead us as I had hoped’.
In order to put up with the BS of Presidential politics one has to have an outragously unnatural competitive drive and a supreme egotistical sense of self-worth.
Truly, no viable candidate for President is thinking about the people. They are thinking about the satisfying of their own egotistical desires by winning. Having met Dennis Kucinich and spent a couple of hours in his presence in a friend’s living room and briefly having a one-on-one with him, I’m even skeptical about his sincerity in his quest for the presidency.
You’ve said it beautifully. The people are smarter than the Huffington Post-ers. Why wouldn’t we want the Democrat with the BEST chance to take out the Republican machine? When you think that he’s doing that for us while his wife grapples with incurable cancer, you can’t even compare his courage to that of the other candidates.
Vote for him at http://www.couragecampaign.org’s poll of progressives.
I prefer Edwards to Clinton, so you’d think that I would trumpet this kind of poll result. But perhaps because my background is in engineering, I’m less inclined to take this kind of result seriously and more likely to examine the flaws in it.
Hillary Clinton has been viciously attacked for the last 16 years by organizations with billions at their disposal. The American people have heard it already.
However, the Right Wing Noise Machine hasn’t been busy attacking Edwards and Obama for 16 years. It’s quite likely that they will develop new lines of attack that cause significant damage (even if the attacks are completely false).
What this means is that Hillary Clinton has about as many haters as she ever is going to have, while if Obama or Edwards are nominated, they’ll get more haters.
Meanwhile, Saint John McCain has nowhere to go but down. Any semi-competent campaign will greatly reduce his favorability ratings. For starters, just play that YouTube of him saying that we should stay in Iraq for a hundred years, and ask mothers if they want that for their children. After all, you don’t think that our current, broken army will suffice for the ambitions of an ultra-hawk, do you?
That argument against McCain is better made by Obama or Edwards, as Hillary Clinton seems to feel she has something to prove and won’t let herself be out-hawked by anyone. She might try to present herself as a smart hawk vs. Republican reckless hawks, but that’s too subtle an argument for many people.
Edwards! How I wish this man could’ve positioned himself as the anti-Hillary/status quo vote early on instead of Obama. This man is the reason why Obama and Clinton even have remotely good policies to begin with.
response to Eureka Springs @ 104
I think this is a false flag. Our party has been crippled for a long time. The question for me is will we stand for it again.
We work, fight, wheel-and-deal, force this system back toward honesty and transparency, one school board, assembly, city council, state legislative, US House, US Senate, and US Presidential vacancy at a time. We do it through participating, even when our best candidate isn’t exactly what we wanted.
In the words of that noted philosopher, we attack, Attack, ATTACK, ATTACK!!!
Yes Yes Yes; No more Mr/Mrs nice guys leaning across the aisle to accomodate th eoppostion party.
Time to Attack Attack Attack
Air their Dirty Laundry.
New Mexico here tonight on a jog with 3 ladies.
No overt Republicans. Most agree now that corporations that are not
under the control of WE the People will cause the downfall of the country.
Myself from the heart I feel for Edwards for all of his losses and triumphs. The Presidency is a long race that starts on 1/9/09. I doubt the staying power of both Obama and Clinton. More than that I question both of their judgements on increasing the rights of corporations and decreasing the rights of the people. Remember that Clinton was in favor of the flag burning amendment. She must have not learned much in her college years about our Bill of Rights. Ditto for Obama and Patriot Act extentions even if temporary. If he voted to strip the wiretap provisions why was he not there to also strip the telecoms of immunity?
Even the Republicans in my office can tolerate an Edwards Presidency and think he’s the best of the lot…..They might even vote for him but not for Hillary. Not much about Obama …their feelings are he’s a blank slate.
Edwards is getting my vote. I agree with him on the issues. I’d love to vote for Hillary because she is capable, intelligent and a woman, but issues are going to trump those factors in this election for me.
Edwards is walking the talk. I ready for that CHANGE!
Edwards campaign calls Clinton a racist
on msgop Chris Comminus (sp) the Communications Director for the Edwards campaign 1/15 9 am
Edwards campaign claiming Clinton is a racist. The Obama and Clinton campaign are trying to dial this back and now the Communications director for the Edwards campaign is saying Clinton is racially insenstive
He conflated two statements –the fairy tale and MLK statements to promote that position.
MSM would like nothing more than to choose the winners and run the entire thing without a single discussion about the issues.
And they likely have, and this time will. The only exception will be the 1% of the time spent on immigration (how high the wall should be). Pathetic.
Ted Rall speaks for me.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucru/2…..fV0SoE1vAI
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..81518.html
Kerry Blasts Clinton Camp’s “Negative, Petty” Attacks
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There has to be an excuse should the peoples vote lose again. Super rich insiders fighting to divide the spoils they tax out of the people sounds like something the MSM could dig on as a story line.
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Note sure has I have not seen the links on the above Edwards camp statement reference. I do not think any of the big-3 are racist and or sexists. The Clinton “MLK statement” was without understanding at best (I would say baiting at worst) – I am sure they think they are just injecting an important “issue” into the campaign.
Bah, its been a joke for a long time. The Duke driving around in a tank comes to mind (or the “Dean scream” as a more modern reference), as do people mindlessly voting for Raygun thinking its in their interest.
As far as I’m concerned, it’s time to focus on primaries whether for state or national office. Get your pgrogressives in early, get some ActBlue $, and off you go.
As far as Edwards, this is the election as far as I’m concerned…and John is my guy!