Booman discusses the latest NYT article on the race debate that now seems to consume the Clinton/Obama battle. He says its failure to mention the Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, Andrew Cuomo or "anonymous Clinton advisers" who have made a variety of statements ranging from racially insensitive to outright racist all accrues to the benefit of the Clintons. True. The lack of context is unfair and galling.
He goes on:
Here is how it works. The Clintons push some racially sensitive buttons and elicit an emotional response. Then they go apologize explain themselves on the Al Sharpton radio show. The New York Times only covers the most innocuous of their comments. The result is that they remind voters that Barack Obama is not the post-racial uniter, but a typical black candidate, supported by serial whiners Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Nothing could undermine Obama’s campaign more among the white vote, and the Clintons know it. And there is nothing, nothing, that Obama can do about it. If he complains, he only makes it worse. If he doesn’t complain, these subtle allegations that he is a lazy, drug-dealing Muslim do damage all on their own.
I don’t think that’s the whole story, though. For one thing, Jesse L. Jackson is more than just an "Obama supporter" as he was described in the article — he’s the national co-chair of Obama’s campaign. You really can’t get much more "official" than that. This story is one that the Obama campaign has been pushing for days through a variety of surrogates, and it’s clear they want to publicly take on this fight now.
Perhaps they feel it’s inevitable, and best to air it now when it’s most likely to accrue favorably to Obama with South Carolina on the horizon. And perhaps it’s a way to throw a few elbows into the Clinton campaign and say that there’s going to be a price exacted for the Bob Kerreys of the world. But to say, as Mark Ambinder does, that "Obama has not accused the Clintons of racism and an Obama campaign aide said that campaign does not believe that the Clintons themselves were attempting to sow racial discord" does, I think, misrepresent what’s going on.
Jesse Jackson Jr. said that Hillary Clinton cried in response to questions over her appearance, and not about the victims of Hurricane Katrina (something that implied would be important to the voters of South Carolina). It’s clear that both sides are actively engaged in this battle now.
For better or worse, it’s not’s not a one-sided confrontation.
Talk Left, Kevin Hayden, Joe Klein, Oliver Willis and Paul Rosenberg have varying takes on the subject.
Related posts:
- Van Jones: Race, Politics, and the Progressive Movement
- NJ-Gov: Polls Show Very Tight Race Between Corzine, Christie
- Election Night Thread #2: McDonnell Projected VA Winner; NJ Gov. Race Too Close to Call
- Early Morning Swim: Maddow on the GOP Playing the Race Card
- DFA Won’t Pull Their Health Care Ads Attacking Mary Landrieu





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our jane arrives
Instead of tears and jeers, I sure as hell like to hear something substantive about New Orleans, Baghdad, Tehran and…well, just about anything. Of substance.
Amen, Sister
That’s why I just spotlighted Christy’s post (previous thread).
My first Spotlight evah. Pretty easy, although Dan Froomkin isn’t listed with the WaPo contacts…
FunnyDiva
Great post, Jane!
if only
*sigh*
The race issue is being exploited by the MSM and it looks like we are buying into their BS. We should set an example and raise the discourse above that.
We can talk about race, that is a good thing, but it is wrong to let any of our candidates get tarnished by such accusations as be racist of race baiting. Lets talk about their records and what they propose to do to help all Americans. Wishing and Hoping
Hi Jane.
I’ll handle it.
Vote for Edwards. Somehow he stays classy even when he stomps around in a fit.
Hey there dear Elliot and dear FunnyD
Hi Jane.
Now to read the post.
…and he has nice hair.
dum-tee-dum-dum…
(just waiting around for the polite amount of time to pass before going completely OfT)
dum-tee-dum….
Second!
Hi, Jane! This a great analysis of a very subtle issue.
Jane:
Typo: 3rd line of 4th para: Bob Kerrey…
I have noticed that usage here regularly. Does it signify something different than “OT”, as in “Off Topic”?
Right on Jane! And yes I used that term because it sums it all up.
Laura,
What do you recommend for the won’t-you-please-drop-out-of-the-race blues? — cause I got ‘em.
I really hope that was sarcasm, because otherwise you would out yourself as being a complete idiot.
Clinton and Edwards have underestimated Obama as a win at any cost politician. They sould have talked to Alice Palmer
The Obama campaign is trying to put the nomination away and are using the Hillary and her campaign are racist to do it.
I think Obama and David Axelrod are worried about Tony Rezko’s date with Fitz on Feb 25 in Federal court. The last thing that they want is for the national media to start looking at Obama and Rezko and Obama and Illinois lobbyists.
Pushing the “The Clintons are racist” before the SC primary is risky for Obama but it is really bad for the Democratic Party.
Surely you mean, “in spite of the fact that he has nice hair.”
Race and gender the only nonsensical ways to slam candidates.
I think the public is starved for coverage of issues.
Hello? MSM??? Tap tap tap. Stop checking your makeup in the monitor reflection & tell me something -um- important.
Oh yeah. Judy Woodruff wore orange yestidie. Now that was noteworthy.
Beyond that, take a clue, fauxpundits, & file the junk where it belongs.
Hi Laura,
Got your Facebook message, I will respond shortly. Just doing a drive by here.
Thanks you, Biodun. (As always…)
Does it signify something different than “OT”, as in “Off Topic”?
Nah – means the same thing here. Just a little personal thing…
Kathleen Hall Jamieson said we could learn a lot if we watched the debates, but did not watch the before and after “analysis” of the pundits. I agree with her, its amazing how CNN, FOX and MSNBC, etc tarnish the discourse regarding elections. Arianna wants us to boycott pollsters, thats all fine and good, but it doesn’t go far enough, we ought to boycott the pundits as well……
You check around the dark corners for PeteyPierce before bringing that up agin???
JayT. Stick around. We may need ya purty soon. Still got that taser?
dang. insert “aren’t” in line 2, you can guess where, sigh.
ignore the pundidn’ts
For me, doing something for someone else is a tremendous antidote to hopelessness/ennui. Here’s someone who would appreciate a comment, I know for sure.
Sahar at InsideIraq
Election-sausage making is nauseating. Living somewhere else in the world–and especially living in a war-zone and watching this nonsense must be horrible.
When too tired to do a good deed? Might try lighting a candle. Singing a song. (And there’s always cooking up something with lots of basil!
Love to you,
L.
I have supported JE from day one, in spite of his fine hair. He is a Progressive in the finest sense of the word, a family man, and a tireless fighter for the less fortunate. He has sacrificed more for us then any other candidate……. seriously folks.
-uh- JayT? No one’s gonna say nothin’ till ya light up that big bozo of an OfT.
Might as well git er done….
You have no idea what a treat that always was.
*heaving even bigger sigh*
Thank you for the good advice. I’ll use it.
Sighing is good, too. Deep Breathing!!
can we pretty pretty pretty please have a thread that is devoted to the actual policy proposals of the candidates, rather than all this claptrap? What is Edwards proposing to do about healthcare? What is Obama proposing to do about trade? What is Clinton proposing to do about our military?
I will freely admit that I’ve been spending too much time crunching numbers and watching polls lately, but we need to get out of this slump.
Edwards does happen to have objectively nice hair. He also happens to be the Democratic candidate I consider the most likely to move this country in a progressive direction as President. The nice hair is lagniappe.
Yeah … he’s only had one mess up that I know of. His unflattering remark about Hillary’s “crying” thing. Has anyone been seeing this(meaning the Obama and Hillary spat) play over the nightly news? Or just in certain papers?
brian, you have my apologies – I guess my snarkiness meter is a little off today.
smooch!
This race- and gender-baiting is a zero-sum game. And Obama and Hillary cannot resolve it by being on the same ticket: an identity-politics one that will be too stacked for Americans at this point in 2008 to be electable.
while we’re waitin’ for JayT, brianb99c, you’re forgiven for whatever, as long as you’ll forgive the rest of us blatherheads (speaking only for meself – assuming self-flag-ligation is o.k. with mr.mod?)
must be somethin’ in the air today…
oh, the mister washed the car. Jan 12. amazing!
Amen. Let’s talk about war-bating, instead!
There have been, and continue to be, numerous threads about policy. The fact of the matter is that, for better or worse, “all this claptrap” has a large influence on electoral outcome. Therefore, though definitely painful and boring for most normal human beings, it is important to analyze and understand.
Ah, shit. Media complicity in right-wing conspiracy?
Yeah I wonder what Toni Morrison is saying just about now.
With all due respect, you cannot tell a blog owner what to do with her blog. If you really want all that, then set up your own blog.
if we want to keep progressive issues alive in this race we had better keep sending John Edwards green love. he needs to be able to stay in the race and at least get enough delegates to keep Hillary or Obama from getting the bid on the first ballot. if Edwards gets enough delegates to do this then no delegate is bound to a particular candidate after the first round. if we want our voice heard in Denver help GET EDWARDS TO DENVER.
Obama and Hillary both voted for the Peru free trade agreement. Obama believes in negotiating with insurance companies in order to reform . . . Someone else can fill in the blanks. They are two peas in a pod politically.
I have been listening to Ring of Fire and heard David Bender talking about Edwards. Nothing but good news.They say he wont get out as its a cause as much as a campaign and they said in the end he may win. Ill find the video as soon as I can. It will be on golefttv.com
Sure makes me feel better.
I don’t agree..If it continues, the Thugs will benefit in the General
Election.
What is Edwards proposing to do about healthcare? What is Obama proposing to do about trade? What is Clinton proposing to do about our military?
Go find out. Start your own blog, and write about it. FDL doesn’t exist to spoon-feed you information that you can easily find on your own.
yippee – the best weekend in professions feetsball has just kicked off! Chex-mix in the oven…
No split-screen teevee here – so I gotta split the eyeballs to watch the game and thread at the same time.
ed note – do *not* try the split eyes thing at home – or at least not without aspirin nearby.
I second that motion and emotion. And would love to see the look on Rahm Emanuels face for starters.I link once again to Howie Kleins article and his link to DLC leaders cut Edwards out (and are proud of it).
Allow me to thank you kindly snowbird42!
Just in case it hasn’t been posted before:
Below is the Cuomo transcript in which he uses that term to describe political campaigning in general–not Obama:
http://blogs.timesunion.com/ca…..#more-6141
You know I’ve spent a lot of time in other races, especially in Iowa and in New Hampshire, back with Gore and back with Clinton. Those races require you to do something no other race does, you know, and I like it, and I agree with you, it’s a good thing. It’s not a TV-crazed race, you know, you can’t just buy your way through that race [FD: Airport press conference and the media markets…..], it doesn’t work that way, it’s frankly a more demanding process. You have to get on a bus, you have to go into a diner, you have to shake hands, you have to sit down with ten people in a living room. You can’t shuck and jive at a press conference, you can’t just put off reporters, because you have real people looking at you saying answer the question, you know, and all those moves you can make with the press don’t work when you’re in someone’s living room. And I think it’s good for the candidates, I think it makes the candidates communicate in a way that works with real people because you know in a living room right away whether or not you’re communicating, and I think the questions are good and I think the scrutiny is good, so you can, you can say they’re small states and they get a lot of attention — they are very good for the process, I believe that.
ok – OfT – just kicking around thoughts as to how Timmeh will approach the full-hour interview of Hillary tomorrow morning.
Balls-out gotcha? Or soft-balls?
I guess, if nothing else, after tomorrow we oughta know whether or not Hillary is the GE/NBC choice for the Democratic nomination…
please don’t confuse me with facts, I’m a voter.
If you want to see JRE’s healthcare proposals, go to http://www.votesmart.org.
for some info. He is one of the very few candidates who responded to the Political Courage test.
There, JRE says,
“
once again, all apologies to everyone; I’m apparently hitting the wrong buttons this afternoon.
keep up the good fight, pups.
If Edwards can stick it out, he may be the last man standing come convention time.
There is another way to view the Clinton camp comments that has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with politics.
I think history would show that the Clintons are NOT racist or even race sensitive. And Bill Clinton is one of the sharpest political minds around today, maybe “the” sharpest. Thus, it may well be that it was a clear tactical decision to chance sacrificing the African American vote in order to pick up other demographics. My immediate reaction to the Bill C comment asserting Hillary was a stouter warrior of freedom than Nelson Mandela, and her subsequent comment that intimated that LBJ was a more serious agent of change than MLK, was that they were throwing the AA vote under the bus. Subsequent comments of Bill C. and a number of campaign surrogates, leads me to the conclusion that with an Iowa loss behind her and a NH loss looming, a calculation was made that stealing BO’s thunder was more important than taking a chance of alienating the AA vote. Besides, they must have thought that they could easily recover from any “misinterpretations” that were raised later, given their close connection with the Black community.
I don’t think that President Clinton, who is a brilliant strategist and quick thinker, made the several comments he did without thinking. I don’t believe that he spoke without realizing what he was doing. The Clintons are political pros, one comment could be a mistake, two could be a bad day, but the consistency and breath of remarks by multiple speakers negates the mistake hypothesis. There hasn’t been one or two comments made in the heat of battle, but several spokespersons and the principals echoing the same theme. This is deliberate – but political, but not racial I think.
And this won’t be pretty:
Sorry. I have to confess I tuned out of that whole sequence of events (regarding the Hill-tears). Ever since Muskie was turned out to pasture because of a few justifiable tears…. Not even CLOSE to being on my radarscreen.
Campaigns become overheated. Pundings & trolls intrude, often with agendas of their own. Ditto staff and K-street Wingtippers, former pols with axes still to be sharpened – for what?!
Look at voting records, if there are any, including background info. Look to websites and literature of organizations you most admire, as well as websites of the candidates themselves. Do some homework. How does the League of Conservation Voters rate the candidates you’re most interested in? Why? Ditto for ACLU, or BattyBannerRag in the Winger aisle, if that’s yer preference…
Reread plenty posts here on FDL & elsewhere. Suggest topics for more. Ask your most burning questions HERE. Let FDL community help you do your research on whatever subject matter concerns you….
eh?
There’s an Adam Clayton Powell IV?
Gawd, I’m old…
The Huffington Post has more details on what the Obama camp is doing.
What I hated about Jackson’s statement is the ugly overt racial association. Using Katrina of all things to score political points? And then Dyson, a supporter not a staffer (I believe), charging that Clinton making the remark that she was ready to lead and Obama was not is somehow racial in subtext?
And now we having explosive charges of racism becoming even more inflammatory with that Guardian article quoting an “anonymous” HRC campaign associate. Even TPM ran with it, without truly questioning it (Listen, if you post that you’re not sure about it and then post it anyways with something, like, “HRC Aide States…” it’s still highly irresponsible). And then there’s the so-called MLK diss, which didn’t happen (Olbermann ran with that one).
My sincerest apologies.
And one of Hillary’s prominent African-American supporters seems to to hedge a little bit:
(Same link as my 58.)
link
This may be good tactics to try and win the nomination but painting the Clintons as racists is not going to be good for the democratic Party.
I think I speak for both my house and kiddo’s when I say, “Let’s fucking hope so!”
Obama and Hillary should be lambasting Bushco’s hijacking of our Constitution, our country, the lead up to attacking Iran…. 24/7/365, stick to issues, and stop sniping at each other.
and chex in the oven.. Now THAT is multitasking to die for. Enjoy, assuming that’s a politically correct activity. We’ll keep lobbing little no-brainer comments at ya to make sure that left eye’s not droopin’. ;->
damn, he was good as the singer for Blood, Sweat and Tears…
That’s funny!
yep. Has there ever been a more target-rich environment? Friendly fire is so not necessary.
Just for the record for folks who don’t know, that was David Clayton Thomas
IIRC it was the Guardian reporter quoting an anonymous source who heard it from a campaign staffer. Kinda like the “telephone” game.
1st thot: Tweets might oughtta borrow jr’s codpiece.
Naw. She’s a lady. But he ain’t no gentleman. I predict she’ll still be in the race by Convention, but Tweetie will be gone. HAH!
From your lips to the god(dess) ear.
yet according to this, HRC is supposed to play hard to get:
Why don’t you give us one substantive reason why you think “the last thing they want is for the national media to start looking at Obama and Rezko and Obama and Illinois lobbyists? You made the claim. Back it up.
I don’t. Actually screening Voir Doir begins January 23 in Tony Rezco’s trial. The National media has been looking at the Rezco connection to Obama for 3 years actually, and you’re parroting Right Wing Blogs and Hillary fan blogs.
There is a calculated reason why the Rezco trial has been scheduled by Pat Fitzgerald and Judge Amy St. Eves to be in the heart of crucial votes in the primary season. The Rezco trial has been the darling of Right Wing-Nut blogs and Hillary 44 blogs for months.
No one here can substantiate LHP’s comment (including LHP who has not tried:)
LHP pins her hopes on surprises to come from this trial that would CPR John Edwards in the joint effort by Pat Fitzgerald and Amy St. Eves to smear Obama. It’s going to fail hugely.
From LHP at the same link:
“No further” is LHP’s way of saying she can’t butress claims against Obama with facts, so she views the trial as a big birthday cake where she has blown out the candles and made her wish.
LHP has also mistakenly called Rezco a mentor of Obama’s and there is nothing on earth factual to back up her claim. She loosely referred to “newspaper” articles but did not and could not site any. Obama had mentors, but Rezco was not one of them. Rezco has been as much a mentor to Obama as he’s been to LHP in her career.
A little background as to why the trial is scheduled now:
St. Eves wants to help repay the Bush favor of putting a loyal Federalist Society member and good Bushie on the federal bench as her reward for pissing away $60 Million Dollars as an attorney who worked for Ken Starr in the miserably failed White Water Investigation.
Amy St. Eves is a loyal Bushie who knows damn well what she’s doing. “Judge” Amy St. Eve, who got to the bench by pissing away $60 million dollars as a loyal soldier in Ken Starr and Ray Jahn’s army in the White Water Investigation is deliberately scheduling this trial to attempt like the Federalist Party soldier she is to harm Obama.
The White Water Investigatior for those firepups to young to remember pissed away $60 million of your money in an effort of Right Wing-Nuts to get the Clintons. It yielded an 18 month contempt sentence for Susan McDougal who told Starr and St. Eve to go screw their selves, a conviction for someone no one remembers Jim Guy Tucker, and death for McDougals’ former husband. While being pressured to pee in a cup by DOJ for a urine drug screen because DOJ gets kickbacks for lab contracts by testing inmates with no drug history, McDougal suffered an MI, went into V-Fib, and the DOJ’s medical care is so horrendous incompetent a resuscitation effort by DOJ employeeds is like Britney Spears trying to quaterback the Seahaweks. So McDougal paid with his life, and St. Eves helped to kill him.
Now the orders from Bush, Fielding, Cheney, Addington, Gillespie to St. Eves are to get Obama out of the election because they’re scared to run against him. What’s going to happen is Obama is going to clean house at the corrupt, decrepit DOJ, EOUSA, OLC and a completely feckless incompetent Inspector General and OPR (Office of Professional Responsibility) staff brimming with incompetent lawyers, with career professionals leaving it in droves.
The sexism and racism are rampant. It not just an undercurrent but a river.
I think it’s interesting that Clinton has fired or asked every person involved in a racially sensitive moment to step down, while Obama allowed his extremely controversial homophobe to stay on board.
I am also a little worried about how Obama will handle it when the neo con’s make him the target. I don’t think this will begin in earnest until and unless he is the nominee. I think his previous drug use is going to end up to be a double whammy because he is a black man. It shouldn’t be, but I think it will be. I think the right has been amazingly quiet about it as well. (because they are saving it for later.)
Obama just hasn’t been tested in this way like Hillary has. They damn near destroyed the Clintons too many times to count and I have to say I am often surprised at how many smart people continue to buy the republican lies. I reiterate every chance I get, that the reason the Clintons are so hated had nothing to do with lies or “corruption” it had to do with the fact that Bill Clinton balanced the budget without hurting the poor. He moved poor folks to the middle class and he did it without cutting social programs. As therapist working in an agency I can say that I miss the Clinton days. I saw first hand the help and properity that the Clintons brought to the poor. The Clintons put an official end to the trickle down economics Reagan lie.
I know that every black person in america has been fighting white priviledge their whole life, but honest to god, I think that the racist right wing has been way too quiet up to now. It’s not that I don’t think he can’t do it, it’s that I just don’t know. I feel certain that Hillary and Bill can and will handle them. I don’t have facts about this in regard to Obama.
These people have done evil things, and I have no doubt that taking advantage of racism in america…will not be below their moral standard.
It makes me sick. I think they’ll go after Hillary HARD as well, but I think they have already said about every thing they can about her. I just can’t see much sticking after all these years.
Oops! My bad! Tweets & Timmeh are listed separately in the program guides. Huh. Fooled again!
I might add that when I responded on another thread, because some mods don’t like criticism of their candidates’ causes that my post was deleted. Not to worry, I copied all the posts, including the deleted one, to make the points when needed because a lot of quintissentially ridiculous claims were made about a fence and a groundskeeper shared by Obama and the adjacent property owner attempting to sling mud at Obama.
When someone whacks your comments, and leaves the others’ standing, that’s called censorship and it looks as if you didn’t respond. That’s hardly the case. There’s a remedy for that.
JayT HELP!
Yank the chex outta the oven before they burn.
But set em down quick & grab the taser, or even a net. ‘es back.
*peeking from behind drapes*
Jane,
This diary is an example of why I am attracted to this site. Though you and the rest of the team present emotional subjects you do so in an objective manner. I’m tired of going to other blog sites that ream the MSM on not being objective then use their own sites to promote their own views. It really turns me off. I’m come here when I want to get the facts and not a bunch of garbage. Thank you.
Well, bless your heart. That was extremely thoughtful of you. We were just discussing the need to have thorough discussions of the issues on this and other blogs. I’m sure your comments will be enlightending.
Pete, that comment was not removed from the earlier thread because of the issues you raised but how you did so.
Well, thorough for sure.
there’s an ornithologists’ term referring to ham-handed, ruinous environmental policies:
turning the “no stone unturned” phrase on its head, as it were, to become:
“no tern unstoned”
i shall endeavour to go lurk quietly.
thanks for the good company pups.
My reply to adie @ 74 was the hope that Tweety would be gone….
I just got back from donating to Edwards.
If that’s all they have, they can kiss their ass goodbye. I sure hope that’s their game plan. Bring it the hell on. A black attack will bring out voters in droves. In many of the Southern Super Tuesday states, black voter registration has in fact broken records. They’re lining up to vote for Obama.
Let’s see someone tried THC and coke as a kid, and it got him in no trouble with the law, but it interfered so violently with his life that he ended up a miserable failure graduating Columbia University where he majored in political science with a specialization in international relations, and then went on to graduate Harvard Law School where he was the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, “first black president in its 104-year history”.[28] He completed his J.D. degree magna cum laude in 1991.
As an associate attorney with Miner, Barnhill & Galland from 1993 to 1996, he represented community organizers, discrimination claims, and voting rights cases.[30] He was a lecturer of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1993 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004.
See what those damn drugs did. That’s why you never want your kid glued to the TV watching Britney and Gossip Girl to follow in the footsteps of Obama. You don’t want them to end up as miserable failures and targets for Rove and Gillespie do you?
Too funny.
Obama needs to take the Tiger Woods approach and appear to be above it all. It makes him look classy, it makes average white folk comfortable that every last thing is not going to be overanalyzed if he gets elected, and it sends a message that he won’t fall for the bait. If he doesn’t take the bait then the “misunderstandings” will probably stop for awhile. If he does take the bait and looks like he is overreacting he is toast. His whole strategy would be blown.
I think Obama was sending a message but now that he has he needs to back off.
I like it…
Thanks much, Leslie. We plan to also, as soon as some important other obligations are cleared. In the meantime, I suspect even supportive e-mails, etc. are surprisingly powerful in keeping up the spirits in the campaign.
I seriously doubt that. Our mods do a great job and don’t take anyone’s comments down unless they are being abusive to other commenters.
Make your case as you will, we welcome your time and effort. But leave the personal insults out of it.
Actually RBG, you didn’t tell the story correctly, and I have the posts, and all of it minus anything that can be construed to “insult” anyone will be posted again when the person who insulted me and said I was intentionally distorting facts rears his head.
I gave the mod every opportunity to edit out what he/she considered offensive, since I had no idea what they were talking about and they wouldn’t specify it.
I wrote:
I haven’t made any personal attacks. I did respond to personal attacks you didn’t read or acknowlege, however, and I quote:
Liberal Heart@227 wrote:
“I’ve noticed how you insert incorrect or conflicting information intentionally” [i.e calling me a liar].
The detail that was conflicting was because BHL is hung up on whether people I don’t know lived in a house or not, a totally tangential fact, while he could never supply any substantive cogent reason why he accused Obama of accepting a laundered interest free loan while comically asserting it was going to put Obama out of the race or in election jeapordy. Of course you don’t consider that a personal attack. Why you don’t is interesting.
Why don’t you be specific since you want to edit me–and tell me what you construe as “personal attacks” on someone who has personally attacked Obama and implied he received laundered interest free loans and I can edit out what it is you want edited out/find objectionable or modify it.
No idea who originated that gem.
I’m merely the messenger.
I think we gots us a triple, mebbe quadruple-decker hamsamich on our plate right about now.
*just checked, no scratches yet. buzzes off to watch from behind a basil leaf*
Wow. Just Wow!
*slaps one hand, HARD, with the other*
*shhhhhh* *okay, geehaw*
*jayt: be a dear & hand over summa those chex. Tanks*
I have no idea what was considered objectionable in your previous comments, and you’re welcome to advocate for your candidate, but when you characterize another commenter as “pinning their hopes” on a possible scandal or “accusing” Obama because he expressed concern about what the incident looks like, you really need to step back and take a deep breath. Imputing motivations to people because they express opinions you don’t like is a personal attack. And even if what was said about your candidate was a personal attack (which I’m not going to judge one way or the other), a personal attack on a candidate (who’s a public figure and not present) and a personal attack on a commenter are in no way comparable.
I very much doubt LHP wants Obama to be taken down by scandal any more than any more than those of us who talk about the bad stuff in Iraq “want” the troops to be harmed (as the wingnuts like to claim.)
Saying “I don’t think there’s anything there and I doubt it will amount to anything” is a fine contribution to the discourse. Saying “how dare you bring this up unless you can prove to me it’s true” isn’t.
FWIW, I told no “story”. I simply stated why the mods removed your earlier comment from the thread. They were right to do so then and will do so again as necessary.
Even stranger…there are TWO Adam Clayton Powell IV’s!
The noted politician was Adam Clayton Powell, Jr. He had a son, Adam Clayton Powell III with his second wife, the singer Hazel Scott. That son is Vice Provost for Globalization at the University of Southern California.
Now it gets interesting…
Powell and his third wife, Puerto Rican Yvette Diago Powell, had a son Adam Clayton Powell Diago, who later changed his name to Adam Clayton Powell IV after he became a member of the New York State Assembly.
But wait!
There was already an Adam Clayton Powell IV.
Adam Clayton Powell Jr’s second son, Adam Clayton Powell III, named his son Adam Clayton Powell IV. Thus the NY Assemblyman created confusion because his nephew, who is only 8 years younger than he, ALREADY had the name of Adam Clayton Powell IV. In addition, that name was directly in lineal descent through ACP III.
Wow. It’s really worth following that DLC article link and reading the whole thing. They’re so amazingly wrong about everything.
That’s pretty weird!
I really like this diary from over at Kos…Edwards is pissing off the right people…very good:
http://dailykos.com/story/2008…..738/435549
I made my case Jane. I responded to every question that was posed by anyone on that thread as to Rezco. I was accused of making things up, and I sifted through a ton of material and cited it to come up with the facts.
People have to remember that newspapers in Chicago are no different from many media outlets. They have a political agenda often, and slant their coverage accordingly.
I continue to be intrigued by LHP’s comments that she believes that Obama got a money laundered interest free loan from Tony Rezco, but can’t/won’t/hasn’t explained how Pat Fitzgerald who has millions of dollars worth of resources including the F.B.I. to find this out, but hasn’t lifted a finger to talk to interview the Obamas, subpoena them for either Grand Jury testimony, or to prosecute Obama.
From LHP:
I’m still waiting for LHP to back up her statement. Also with everybit of respect due, LHP’s characterization of Tony Rezco as Obama’s mentor is simply ludicrous. Giving money to a Senate campaign, which was given to charity when Rezco was indicted, as did Hillary with Norman Hsu, and as will Edwards with the horribly political prosecution of Geoffery Feiger if he is convicted (hopefully he won’t be) does not a mentor make.
Attorneys including Michelle Obama were mentors for Barack Obama.
Fitz has prosecuted a large number of people as have AUSAs in the 94 district courts for the allegation LHP has made against Obama. Fitz failed to have the guts to go after Cheney, Rove, Addington, Gonzales, Miers and her staff and the real major players in the Libby case.
Your coverage of the Libby trial and appeal along with Christy, Marcy, LHP was in my estimation the best on the web and the best in the media hands down. It required a lot of talent and time.
But one area I don’t believe has been examined fully by all of us, including the media, is why Fitz stopped short of going after the real criminals in the Libby/Plame situation. It is to me one of the most significant law breaking examples by a White House staff and an Attorney General in history, and it was left unprobed by Fitz. Now he hopes to make a little news by working conjointly with Amy St. Eves to try to drege up the tired old tails of Right Wing blogs and Hillary 44 Fan blogs by casting aspersions Barak Obamas way by sheduling the Tony Rezco trial for two weeks from now.
It won’t work.
There’s even an Adam Clayton Powell V!!
“Powell earned his undergraduate degree from Howard University and a law degree from the Fordham University School of Law. He lives in East Harlem and is the proud father of a son named – what else? – Adam Clayton Powell V, whom he affectionately calls Junior. In fact, Junior, a competitive swimmer, recently broke a record and became the fastest high school swimmer in New York State’s history!”
http://assembly.state.ny.us/me…..038;sh=bio
As I told you when I responded to this identical post in another thread, I’d appreciate it if, when you’re quoting me, you’d — you know — use the words that are actually in my quote. Thanks in advance for any future “quoting” you do.
Meanwhile, and totally off topic, hope all you Pups have seen War Torn, the first in a series of reports on NYT’s front page. It’s posted now, but with tomorrow’s date. Devastating is the best word to describe it.
My point wasn’t that it makes sense…racism never makes sense. It’s about emotion and bullet points. My point is that the republicans will repeat (and I won’t say it now because I feel bad for bringing it up) O and D word over and over and over again. It won’t matter that he’s a success. The dems “think” the republicans and racists just need a reason to support their visceral reaction. D will be the reason.
I hope it brings out the voters. But the republicans will make sure to repeat and rinse just like they did in regard to Hillary and cold calculating witch. (she forgave her husband…get it?? forgave him…she would be less a calculating witch if she had sunk him??) It didn’t make sense then, and doesn’t matter, it worked.
It wasn’t left “unprobed,” it was left unindicted, and the reasons for that were examined quite a lot here.
And wow, I have to say you have a lot of gall to claim that the reason Fitzgerald didn’t go higher in the White House is that he wasn’t “tough” enough, and that the reason he’s pursuing this case is because he “hopes to make a little news” and then accuse other people of making personal attacks and unsubstantiated accusations against public figures.
Thank you! Videos truly inspiring.
Jane
You might consider fishing or cutting bait, that is letting us in on your choice. Some time ago I thought you favored Hillary, but now I am not so sure. I guess you feel as creator of this place you should have an objectivity associated with not choosing. IMHO you should rethink this.
As for race, it is the elephant in the living room. The NYT had an op ed piece from a pollster trying to explain why the NH Democrat polls were so far off. He concluded poorer whites tell the pollster one thing (race doesn’t matter) and then vote white. I know three guys who won’t vote for Obama because he is black. I think that’s much worse than gender problems.
As for me, I sort of go for Obama. He was against the war in Iraq, which is worth lots of points, although in taking himself to the center to be a more attractive candidate, he’s tarnished himself. Edwards runs a close second and I may go with him because I fear in the general race prejudice may do Obama in. I have until Feb 5 to make up my mind. Hillary, for me, is out of the question. I don’t think there’s any there, there.
If this post offends your sensibilities (gender, racial, sexual, or you-name-it), call the PC Police at 1-800-How-to-lose-an-election.
The posts in this thread weren’t identical to any other posts, including the one that will be edited and posted again in response to you.
As always, I will label quotes from you. There was a distinction between your loose insinuations and LHP’s accusation–you beat around the Bush and LHP directly accused Obama of taking an interest free loan from Rezco which she and no one else on the planet can substantiate.
Please try reading the posts. Your words are taken directly from your posts. LHP’s are taken directly from hers.
Again, if you have any proof whatsoever, and the last two articles you linked from Chicago minor newspapers with an editorial political agenda, were a metaphorical flailing of arms by Republicans who are afraid to run against Obama, and would much rather run against New Hillary.
It is humerous to see the Hillary blogs and the Right Wing blogs, which have always had ideological common denominators now look like mirror images.
I made it explicitly clear what you have said that I disagree with, and the illogical byzantine syllogisms you created attributed to you, and I’m doing it with precise quotes from you and LHP.
It wasn’t left unprobed–what in the world are you talking about–Rezco/Obama or Fitz can’t touch Cheney, Rove, Bush? What wasn’t left “unprobed” and how was it probed, and if you’re referring to Rezco, I’m still waiting for one Edwards mourner or New Hillary lover to point up substantive evidence that Obama has done anything improper in regards to Tony Rezco. There is a lot of flailing of the arms, and smoke and mirrors but no logical proof of anything whatsoever.
As to Libby/Plame Bush, Cheney, Rove and a long list of others in the West Wing:
Do you have any sentence to explain why Fitz stopped at Libby and are you pushing the thesis that the plame leak stopped and ended at Scootsie? What is your explanation for why Rove wasn’t indicted. I know the narrow conventional stock DOJ explanation that they like to go for narrow prosecutions that are slam dunks, which translated means DOJ will always pick on little individuals, but they are afraid to take on major lawbreakers. Gonzales was part of the White House leak brigade. Rove and Cheney were involved over their eyeballs.
You have a lot of nerve and a ton of chutzpah accusing me of any amount of gall in faulting Fitz for not going further than Libby, and doing it in a school marmy fashion shaking your finger at me when you offer no explanation at all as to why Fitz stopped short and fell short in the Vallerie Plame case. It’s also irresponsible of Fitz who now sits on the Attorney General’s advisory committee of U.S. attorneys, not to publicly urge Sylvio Dante Mukasey to release the interviews he did of Rove, Cheney, and Bush in reference to the Plame leak.
I didn’t say,and read again, that the reason Fitz is pursuing Rezco is that he hopes to make a little news.
You took what I said out of context. Hello wakeup. Rezco was indicted in 2006. This case was delayed and then teed up for two weeks from now to try to embarass Obama. St. Eves had complete control and Fitz had maximal control as to when to try Tony Rezco. The only ones in the equation of a trial who have little or no control are the defense. I’ve posted specifically about the Rezco insinuations and I’ve answered every loose acusation, and there have been many one by one.
If as you claim either Rezco wasn’t left unprobed (here?) (by Fitz in Chicago) or the involvement of Bush, Cheney, Rove, and others in the adminsitration were “probed,” I’m sure you won’t mind providing an citations or evidence of this.
The New Clinton (I’m responding to my inner voices Clinton–and voices pleural as in “the 30 faces of Hillary”) had surrogates plant the follwing bigoted ideas right out of the bigoted Republicbot–and this is a major symptom of how desperate Clinton is.
From the Clinton Surrogates:
Obama is muslim and was schooled to be a terrorist as a child
He may have been a drug dealer
Rezco (it’s become pandemic on the Republican wing-nut blogs and the Hillary She Be Our Girl blogs, which haave now evolved/morphed into mirror images of each other.
FWI I simply stated what I’m stating again. I posted appropriately, I research my posts carefully, and no one who commented on Rezco with me had any of their copy touched, and it should have. By eliminating my post, which will be edited and soon posted again as it should be, it was made to seem as if I chose not to respond.
I will post what I think is appropriate, and threats are nothing new. They have become the American way of life now as an indifferent America and an indifferent Congress yawn. Keep your eyes as wide open for S. 2248 as you are for my posts, and I hope you enjoy both.
What I said, and it’s pasted, precisely is that the scheduling by St. Eves and Fitz was done precisely for an agenda/mission. St. Eves–ever the good Bushie scheduled this trial to be at the crucial part of the primary season. I was focusing on the scheduling. I know Fitz knows he has nothing that can implicated Obama legally. St. Eves is just taking orders from Rove and Gillespie to try to see if any mud flung by Fitz towards Rezco can stick to Obama. It won’t.
It’s the scheduling of this trial that St. Eves and Fitz hope to use to cause problems for Obama and it won’t work.
Note LHP’s hope that something would come up in this trial to resurrect Edwards from what is now his wake.
To some presently unknowable extent, Barack Obama is going to have to be the Jackie Robinson of American Politics. Jackie Robinson took the high road. When it comes to the issue of racism, the high road is the only winning road, as was proven by Dr. Martin Luther King.
Whatever racial abuse Mr. Obama is going to have to face – and I think it will be copious, clever and vicious – we progressives should be in the business of giving him the strength to deal with it. That the Clintons are racists doesn’t wash with me. And I hope Jessie Jackson isn’t as politically tone-deaf and condescending as he appeared per Hillary’s emotional moment.
Two suggestions:
1. Bill Clinton needs to come on stage when Chelsea comes on stage, and not too much more.
2. Jessie Jackson Jr. must be kept off tv, or completely scripted when he appears.
Dear Mr. Pierce:
Are you working for one of the candidates? I think we can tell by now which you are not favoring. To whom do you answer at the end of the day, as it were?
Uh, what? Kerrey, a supporter, stated that Obama went to a Muslim school, not that Obama himself was Muslim let alone a terrorist; he honestly meant it as a compliment in the same vein as many op-eds celebrating Obama’s unique appeal to Muslims b/c he lived amongst them as a boy (I think it was wrong, but I also think the op-eds are wrong; Kerrey apologized). A campaign staffer played the concern troll stating that he worried the GOP would accuse him of being a dealer as well (Considering that the GOP accused the Clintons of being murderers, it wouldn’t surprise me, but it was wrong nonetheless; HRC fired him and she personally apologized to Obama). If you can show me a surrogate that said those things you mentioned then please do so, b/c I haven’t yet read about it.
Just b/c you hear/read a smear about Obama doesn’t mean it’s from a Clinton surrogate. I’ve heard that from a lot of Obama supporters: whenever they hear of an e-mail, they immediately hold HRC personally responsible. You do realize there’s a rabid right wing out there, don’t you?
Let me make this simple for you: the identical part, which I thought I pointed out rather clearly before, was the quote you attributed to me. I did not use the word “intentionally” but you insist on putting it into my quote (and have now done so three times by my count). The fact is, I don’t think your misinformation and conflicting statements are necessarily intentional. Rather, I think your collection of talking points evolves as you do more Googling and, as you adopt new ones, they sometimes collide with what you’ve said or assumed in earlier posts.
The only thing close to “intentionally” that I said was written later in my post and had to do with my musing about whether you were willfully misunderstanding the responses received from some of us. I really couldn’t tell if it was that, or if you just found it easier or more suited to your purpose to ignore the content of the responses and go off in another direction.
Two suggestions:
1. Learn more about Fitz’s work on the Scooter case and then come back and discuss it. Marcy’s book would be a swell place to start. People here were too deeply into it and following it for far too long to respond to your comments with any depth because you are just so far off the mark it’s pointless to try.
2. If you believe the Rezko land deal is of so little consequence and will have so little effect on Obama’s campaign, maybe you should treat it as the bit of meaningless fluff you believe it to be rather than posting long, rather frantic attacks on those who think differently. It gives the impression of just the opposite of what you profess to believe. You seem to be taking it very seriously indeed.
Strange as it may seem, i would vote for Edwards even if he were bald.
I can do you one better than that. I’d vote for him even if he were a Republican.
Dear Aide–
No. I am not “working for” one of the candidates. I think you can tell who I am supporting and vote for easier than you can
a) get access to the no fly list b) keep TSA from leiking thousands of travelers information as was done by a contractor TSA didn’t monitor
c) Get Sylvio Dante Mukasey to release Fitzy’s interviews of Rove, Bush, and Cheney who he was afraid to prosecute
At least once a day for the past five straight I have said I support Obama. I hope to find a way to work on at least one event before Feb. 5 if I can do it–but I don’t formally “work for Obama.”
However, I have posted plenty about my concerns and have said explicitly that for example the Edwards suporters are being badly screwed because crazily after 5 days and one caucus and one primary, 48 states are not getting a chance to vote on several candidates, and Edwards is fighting for his life.
BTW there is now going to be a hand recount in the NH primary supposedly, although I don’t know how the hell that will work with Diebold touch machines in 81% of the voting places.
Dear Adie–
I’m not working for any candidate formally. I support Obama, and have said that explicitly over the past two weeks at least once. However I have also posted my concerns about the ridiculous system where already one primary and one caucus has kept people in 48 states from voting for many of their candidates because they are already out.
I have posted that many Edwards supporters may not get the opportunity to vote for him who have worked hard, given hard earned dollars, and are well informed and I’ve done it several times.
I’m glad to clear up the Obama schooling confusion. There has been more than one person fired from the Clinton campaign for circulating storeies about Obama, but not because of concern for fairness–because of concern for backlash.
The new additions to the Hillary million dollar advisory round table are now trying to tamp down concern about comments made by Hillary herself and Bill that have angered many in the black community.
It’s very well known and has been in every major publication that
Right Wing-Nut Blogs, Faux News, and some of the ditzy Hillary 44 blogs (no I didn’t say Hillary is Ditzy, just some of the fanboy and fangirl blogs) have circulated that Obama went to a Madrasa and or/a muslim school. And there would be nothing wrong if he had gone to a Muslim school, or been a Muslim.
I don’t know what Kerry said. I do know he supports Obama, and ran for President with John Edwards on the ticket.
In fact, while in Jakarta as a kid, Obama went to a public school–it had no religious focus. CNN sent a journalist to Jakarta to investigate this. Other media outlets did also.
Insight Magazine and Fox Noise continued to report the story falsely–no suprise there.
Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa. He could not afford to attend the International School in Jakarta. The kids in his school were children of servants, tailors and clerks, farmers, according to The Audacity of Hope, p. 274.
Obama’s staff responded forcefully to clear up this rumor, and rumors that he was a drug user rather than a drug experimenter as a kid.
He now has a rapid response team in place, and Clinton and Edwards have had them for months.
You are correct to ask for documentation on surrogates and I’ll get it for you.
I’m well aware that every smear on Obama doesn’t originate from Hillary or her camp, and lol am I aware of the Right Wing blogosphere. You know the answer to that. I don’t spend time reading them, but I have seen plenty of them.
I went on one of their most popular blogs a while back and took on their absurdities. It made them beyond upset. Actually the front pager could be reasonable, but the commentors were off the wall and couldnt tolerate anything but high fives about each comment. You couldn’t really learn anything there IMHO. Most of what they say is outrageously false, a lot like Fox or Hannity or Rush.
Try going on one of them and commenting. You won’t be answered with a comment–but an invective if you disagree with them at all.
Uh, what? Kerrey, a supporter, stated that Obama went to a Muslim school, not that Obama himself was Muslim let alone a terrorist; he honestly meant it as a compliment in the same vein as many op-eds celebrating Obama’s unique appeal to Muslims b/c he lived amongst them as a boy (I think it was wrong, but I also think the op-eds are wrong; Kerrey apologized). A campaign staffer played the concern troll stating that he worried the GOP would accuse him of being a dealer as well (Considering that the GOP accused the Clintons of being murderers, it wouldn’t surprise me, but it was wrong nonetheless; HRC fired him and she personally apologized to Obama). If you can show me a surrogate that said those things you mentioned then please do so, b/c I haven’t yet read about it.
Just b/c you hear/read a smear about Obama doesn’t mean it’s from a Clinton surrogate. I’ve heard that from a lot of Obama supporters: whenever they hear of an e-mail, they immediately hold HRC personally responsible. You do realize there’s a rabid right wing out there, don’t you?
I am plenty aware not every smear for any candidate including Obama comes from any one candidate’s camp. You’re right though to ask about surrogates and there have been many for Hillary and Jane talks about it on the front page post above.
This is the truth on Obama’s schooling in Jakarta–if Kerry said it was a Muslim school he was incorrect, but nothing’s wrong with a Muslim school. It explains things very well.
Obama’s Religion and Schooling
Am I aware there are right wing blogs? Yep and the posts on some liberal blogs attacking candidates they don’t support are looking exactly like some of the comments on right wing blogs now. Check out some of the Hillary44 posts or some here.
What’s your point then? You repeating what I said doesn’t conclude anything (The link again repeats the facts). I never said Kerrey (Bob Kerrey is an HRC supporter; John Kerry is an Obama supporter) was right, but that he never said Obama was a Muslim, let alone a child-terrorist in training (as in your original post).
Before you reply: I wanted proof that it was from the Clinton campaign itself. And nothing you provided showed that.
I always appreciate it when euridite, sophisticated, articulate people with cutting edge info make things simple for me.
I love condescension.
The quote you’re talking about was not attributed to you. However, LHP referred me to your comment originally, as helping to express her viewpoint–go back and look if you like, and then made the two statements I think are wrong that I have attributed to her.
You did in fact use the word willfully, and here’s the paste: (I see–you want to give me some grins–so you’re now into parsing intentionally from willfully). They mean precisely the same thing. Here’s the paste:
Actually numerous times in posts, I’ve taken your comments one by one and refuted them, so any “jumping around” is a reflection of how you orgainized them.
That’s cosmic; I had the exact same thought about your posts.
I’ve learned plenty about Fitz’s work in the Libby case and pulled all the briefs in the trial, letters, and the appeal from Pacer or other sources the minute they were available.
I and a lot of other people who are conversant with this case are asking why Fitz backed off going after Rove, Cheney, and Bush, and while again you’re dancing around it–you haven’t offered a scintilla of an explanation. Do you have one? Bring it right up if you do.
Try learning about Fitz’s lack of follow through in the Libby case. And instead of telling other people what to study, try buttressing your claims with facts that support them. Try acquainting yourself in the trend at DOJ long before LHP was with them where DOJ goes after individuals, but not the most powerful individuals with a lack of resources often, or (how even in criminal cases, companies are prosecuted), and they pay a fine, and the individuals since companys don’t walk and talk suffer no consequences.
I posted responses that refuted every non-sequitoryou wrote and frantic attack you made on Obama, and every unfounded allegation.
I did it because I didn’t want people to be confused by your frantic allegations, and grabbing of links that were written by newspapers with a long history of Right Wing affiliations–that is the 2/3 links that worked.
The linked articles casted tangential aspersions.
LHP, who referenced your first post on the subject, did say it appeared to her that Obama obtained an interest free loan of laundered money from Rezco, but she had nothing to back up the allegation. She then went on to say she would advise Edwards to await the outcome of the Rezco trial, in case any surprises would pop up that would help Edwards defeat Obama. I was happy to provide her with Edwards’ campaign manager’s address, and the cell phone number of Fitz’s PR officer who is also an attorney, and I’m sure LHP has a wide variety of people at DOJ in her Outlook contacts.
I do believe that Rezco’s trial will have no effect whatsoever on Obama’s campaign. I believe in part because of the media, and in part because of the Banana Repulbic primary setup, and possibly because of hackable Diebold machines, Edwards’ campaign is in cardiac and respiratory arrest right now. Although I back Obama, I’m unhappy at the circumstances that have bcaused that.
As to your advice on what I should post or respond to, or how I should post, I would confine your energy to butressing claims you make including the one you just made about Pat Fitzgerald’s handling of the Plame leak.
You alluded that it’s pointless to respond to my criticism of Fitz’s not going after Rove, because it’s pointless to try. I’m sorry, but there have been a number of fine law reviews written that pose the same questions I have.
Why don’t you spend an afternoon in the law library or get one of your friends to pull them from Westlaw or Lexus?
I’m not repeating what you said. I’m quoting you to respond to you.
You said
Since you were talking about Obama, I assumed you meant John Kerry and that you mispelled his name. And I think you knew that. It was hard to tell who you meant since there is one letter difference, people often mistype, and you ommitted the first name and context.
I believe you’re being naieve if you think that Hillary’s top 5 people and Bill Clinton aren’t directly pushing anti-Obama material and not just the normal political discourse. They are trying to push racial buttons, and they’ve succeeded, and in large citiees I know about they have done what they fear the most. They havebrought out African Americans in significant amounts to vote for Obama on Super Tuesday and in South Carolina and in Nevada. They have caused many of them to switch their alliegiance from Hillary. And in South Carolina, a key African American Congressman has now worried Clinton that he may refrain from being neutral and endorse Obama. That’d be Representative James E. Clyburn, the South Carolina Democrat who is the highest-ranking African-American in Congress. Mr. Clyburn had expressed disappointment in the Clinton campaign.
Mr. Clyburn said he was disappointed by what Mrs. Clinton had said and by former President Bill Clinton’s use of the phrase “fairy tale” in talking about Mr. Obama’s views on the war in Iraq.
According to NYT:
I’m delighted to provide proof to you. I believe strongly that claims should be substantiated, but I also recognized that during election time, people are more sensitive, including me when their candidates are criticized.
Again, I believe the unfortunate and crazy sequence that five days and one caucus and one primary in 2/48 states that derails several candidates contributes to this frustration.
Try this:
Clinton Campaign Volunteer Out Over False Obama Rumors
Clinton campaign staff perpetuating Obama/Muslim rumors
The following email in fact, did come from Clinton campaign coordinators. It stated, and I quote:
“Let us all remain alert concerning Obama’s expected presidential Candidacy,” read the e-mail. “Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level.”
The Clinton campaign has decried the rumors as offensive and outrageous, and last week forced volunteer Jones County coordinator Judy Rose to resign after learning that she forwarded a such an e-mail on Nov. 21. But it turns out Rose wasn’t the only one.
Linda Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, had forwarded a similar version on Oct. 5, without comment, to 11 people. One of the recipients was Ben Young, a regional field director for Democrat Chris Dodd’s campaign, who provided a copy to The Associated Press on Sunday.
The Clinton campaign responded by asking for Olson’s resignation.
“We’ve made our position on this crystal clear,” said Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee. “Our campaign does not tolerate this kind of activity or campaigning. As soon as it came to our attention, we asked this individual to step down.”
Asked to explain why two people connected to the campaign would have forwarded similar e-mails and if the campaign was taking steps to find out if it’s more widespread, Elleithee replied, “We communicated to all of our paid staff and volunteer leadership that the senator and the campaign have a zero tolerance policy for this type of activity.”
I don’t think the “bad stuff” in Iraq, including that we are there to begin with, to Bush’s now intimating he’s going to hault any troop withdrawals is analoguous to the allegations against Obama that he accepted laundered money for a loan without interest. The reason is that I’ve seen years of proof that there is “bad stuff” in Iraq. I’ve not seen a scintilla of proof on misconduct with regard to Barack Obama nd Tony Rezco and his associates. I’ve looked hard for it.
I have the highest respect for LHP, and I look forward to her front page posts and terrific comments here and on Marcy’s site, every day and I’ve told her that directly. I think we are very fortunate that as busy as she has to be with her practice, bar committees, and contributing time/legal expertise to a number of causes, that she is able to have the energy to write so well, and to shed light on areas and lend such clarity to what are often complex labyrinthine connections between agencies and persons in them, and legal nuances that surround them. I’m not imputing any motivations to her, but I will quote her comments as to Tony Rezco/Obama/Edwards to me that you might not have seen:
From LHP to me:
I responded to invite LHP to show me any evidence that Obama obtained an interest free loan of laundered funds from Mike Rezco or anyone else.
I responded to invite LHP to show me how Rezco was a mentor for Obama.
These aren’t true.
I’m not imputing motivations. I’m asking for some butressing to some serious inferences/allegations.
And in refuting the Rezco smears, I’ve had of my motivations imputed. (not by LHP) but by others, and worse personal attacks.
I’ve pointed out that as most people know, some very bright lawyers, and law professors volunteer their time to these campaigns to analyze the muck that is raked by all of them.
All the campaigns are aware of the Rezco allegations, and many Hillary44 blogs are wall to wall with them, but no substantive proof–just a lot of Chicago newspaper articles from papers with a longstanding Right Wing agenda.
I’ve pointed out that although LHP said that there was a tradition, in the old DOJ that you did not indict someone before an election, that this administration has not only ignored that premise, but in fact engineered the entire DOJ to accomplish doing that.
I don’t know if you recall, but I’d like to remind you that both the House and Senate Judiciary Committes have held people in contempt of Congress because they won’t testify on this very subject–that’d be Rove, Miers, and Bolten.
However, Congress has not brought this to the floor in the House or the Senate, and typically Tony Fratto, a Bush Press Secretary scoffed that it would be futile (because this administration doesn’t answer to federal courts or court orders.
The Judge in the Rezco case, Amy St. Eves, is a loyal Bushie, who got her reward of the bench in the Northern District of California after working for Ken Starr and directly with Ray Jahn on the failed White Water Prosecution that cost taxpayers $60 million at least, and possibly more.
She scheduled the Rezco trial with some help from Pat Fitzgerald, to begin at the height of primary season in hopes that some amunition for the Republicans would come from it.
That’s going to be a failure, but the timing of this trial after an indictment almost two years ago is obvious.
And before someone reminds me of the obvious, I’m well aware of the timing from indictment to trial and the components that can slow this time period or speed it, but the judge has considerable lattitude and DOJ has considerably more input here than the defense. Additionally, most federal judges come to the bench from DOJ with their prosecutorial agenda very intact. The smaller percentage not from DOJ incredibly often has not one second of experience litigating in a federal courtroom. I know Courts of Appeals who have several judges that fall in that category.
This is the first thing I’ve seen you say in 3 days where evidence is abundant.
The Judge in the Rezco case, Amy St. Eves, is a loyal Bushie, who got her reward of the bench in the Northern District of Illinois after working for Ken Starr and directly with Ray Jahn on the failed White Water Prosecution that cost taxpayers $60 million at least, and possibly more.
Correction: Mistype Amy St. Eves of course got her reward for working on White Water for Ray Jahn and Ken Starr by being appointed to the Northern district of Illinois bench.
This puts her in prime position to schedule the timing of the Rezco trial during the heat of the primary.
Dear Mr. Peirce.
Perhaps you should set up your own blog.
I might read it.
I tend not to read endlessly repetitive posts from the same dogmatic-sounding person that are seemingly designed to swamp someone else’s blog.
You DID attribute the quote to me. See post 93 for one example of when you did. And you DID put the word “intentionally” into the quote where I did not write it. And whether “intentionally” and “wilfully” mean the same thing is beside the point. The phrase to which you added “intentionally” was not where I had used the word “wilfully”. I was talking about two different things in those two different phrases: one concerned the info you posted, the other concerned your comprehension of the responses you were getting.
LHP and I have written about the Rezko situation’s potential for posing a problem for the Obama campaign. We have not launched an attack on Obama. You keep asking for proof of statements we haven’t made, then you’re surprised when we don’t provide it. Now you’re doing the same thing regarding Fitz. This makes meaningful discussion not just difficult, but impossible. I won’t be responding to you again. I’ll just sit back and read the arguments you’re having with phantom posts.
Again, I already mentioned that particular staffer (Shaheen) about the concern trolling (”concern” over the GOP using Obama’s drug use against him).
Although I didn’t mention that other staffer that passed along e-mail, HRC did fire her. If we want the loosest of definitions and include this as proof that the Clinton campaign itself spread rumors Obama was a Muslim and a terrorist, I guess we’ll have to charge every campaign, b/c it’s impossible to believe there is not, at least, one staffer who pulls something like this. If you want that, fine.
And I’ve countered that the Rezco situation won’t pose a problem for Obama.
But you still have the fictional Muslim school education in Jakarta that Hillary campaign workers actually did circulate an email on that I’ve nailed above, or you can groove on Obama’s smoking joints/trying coke and shudder booze when he was a kid. There are plenty of right wing blogs that you can read until November and rhapsodize over. But in the rhapsody they are forgetting that McCain, Romney, or Huckabee aren’t going anywhere in the general.
I’ve made it crystal clear 5 times that I attribute the quote about Obama getting a money laundered interest free loan to LHP.
Obama Money Laundering =LHP’s accusation with no backup
Obama=trouble over Rezco trial Liberal Heart with not one substantive word and a couple goofey news articles trying to tie the buying of Obama’s home and adjacent land from Rezco (either Rita or Tony) to Liberal Heart
I hope that’s clear enough for you. You mistook my attributing the quote to you because I referred simply to LHP’s referring me to a comment by you that I found went and goes nowhere.
You can keep posting that I’ve attributed the quote to you but I haven’t.
I do attribute to both of you that you’re beating a dead, dead horse.
If either of you, I know you have, I think LHP has been coy about the candidate she backs, think Edwards is in good position fine.
I’d like his delegates for Obama, and I’m not going to guess back room deals, and where super delegates will go, but I beleive if Edwards can deliver delegates he will deliver them to Obama.
I don’t think Edwards has much chance to win the nomination now. He may be on the ticket with Obama.
A couple threads ago I equated the word intentionally to willfully. I got tired of going back to the other thread where you strung together all kinds of goofey assumptions lifted from a couple newspaper articles in Right Winged news articles, and the same kind of scrambled syllogisms I’ve seen on right wing blogs and Hillary44 blogs for months now, hoping that since Edwards and Hillary can’t be Obama vote wise in states where voting machines aren’t Diebold, that they might be able to Rezco him out of the race.
I think it’s fair to say that LHP thinnks Obama could be Rezco’d out of the race by Ole Fitzy and loyal Bushie girl scout Amy St. Eves, they of the Northern District of Illinois. I’ll make the distinction between LHP hoping this will happen, and thinking it could. How’s that?
I can site many examples where Bushie judges and Bushie prosecutors have gone after Democrats right before an election to try to influence the outcome of the election.
We are in the era of Soprano DOJ, with Sylvio Dante Mukasey at the helm.
In case you missed it we had a US Attorney Scandle that Clongress has stopped investigating.
They held Rove, Miers, and Bolten in contempt if you take the actions of both SJC and HJC and after months, neither body has taken the next step to take the contempt citations to the floor for a vote, because the step after that is for the Bushian D.C. U.S. Attorney to prosecute them and that won’t happen. Congress could legally jail them in the basement of the Senate, but I don’t look for that to happen soon either.
I imagine Bush would send out the Navy and the Army he has left in the states, (he’s pretty much out of National Guard) to block the arrest by the Senate. Maybe Bush would launch an airstrike on the Senate to keep his girl Harriet from being arrested. *g*
Besides moaning, and whining, and kvetching about who you think I attributed a quote to when I’ve said several times who said what and quoted LHP correctly, and kvetching about the use of the word intentional for willful (*g*) you keep parsing the difference between intentional and willful. I’m sorry I don’t have the superior education you do, but they mean pretty much the same and I was explicit–I quoted you and you said “willful.”
Why don’t you sit back like LHP seems to be doing, and watch your boy Fitzy and your girl Amy White Water girl scout do their thing over in the Northern District of Illinois.
By the time Voir Dire is over, and opening statements have begun in Rezco’s first trial (DOJ will keep coming back and trying to convict Rezco if they don’t bring him down this time–that’s the way of a good Bushie, and we have the Feiger trial as well), and Fitz gives his opening statements, and Amy St.White Water Girl Scout has made a few FRE rulings for the government, Obama will have beaten Edwards and Hillary girl in Super Tuesday.
I have gotten some real grins out of your surrealistic mozaic of Rezco on trial/Obama bad man/Obama have trouble.
Keep collecting those Chicago newspaper clippings. If you really want to groove on the trial, you could order dailys from the Court Reporter.
Transcripts Northern District of Illinois
PACER
Stay Tuned:
Daily Calendar Amy White Water Girl Scout St. Eve
Again, I already mentioned that particular staffer (Shaheen) about the concern trolling (”concern” over the GOP using Obama’s drug use against him).
Although I didn’t mention that other staffer
There were two other staffers besides Shaheen that I know she fired. Her husband Bill Clinton has not been fired, but he has been muzzled a bit.
Bill Clinton is indispensable for Hillary to get votes. If he were running against her, it’d be over before it started. So the HIllay campaign knows that they have to dutifully trot out Bill who can pull in more votes than she can by far, and now keep Chelsea on the trail with the New Hillary. I do believe the Clinton campaign, as I said, will not get neutrality from the highest ranked Black American Congressman in South Carolina James Clyburn.
Dear Mr./Ms./Mrs. Adie–
Read the posts. They’re hardly endlessly repetitive. By the way why do you use this ridiculous letter format to comment here?
Do you have any comments on actual issues besides critiquing my comments and making suggestions as to what I should do?
I had a situation where ole Liberal Hart got
over to whom quotes were attributed and over the parsing of the words intentionally and willfully,so in his or her case (whichever) I adopted copying the whole quote I was responding to so there could be no doubt, but it didn’t stop the perpetual kvetching anyway.
You made the express request for me to name the sources in the Clinton campaign, and I did. I regret that I couldn’t name people higher up. It’s a bit like trying to investigate the US Attorney scandle in the West Wing, or the Valerie Plame leak in the West Wing. However stay tuned, because there is going to be a lot more of this kind of thing from the Clinton camp as we head into Sup Tue. in what is a crazily organized primary season.
You’re going to see lightening fast rapid responses to anything fromt the New Hillary Girl campaign or the Right Wing (getting to look like each other which isn’t suprising at all) from here on out.
mfffphzzzlllpt AH!
wait.
i’ve seen one of these puzzles before. is this how the BIG BANG happened?
mebbe we’re about to spawn a whole new universe, instead of just a low-hanging cloud of oooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Another Sign Edwards Will Throw Support to Obama by Jeralyn Merritt January 13, 2008
South Carolina may be the end for John Edwards if he comes in third. It seems, once again, he’s displaying his preference for Obama over Hillary. At a campaign event at a predominantly black Baptist church today Edwards said :
“I must say I was troubled recently to see a suggestion that real change that came not through the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King but through a Washington politician. I fundamentally disagree with that,” Edwards told more than 200 people gathered at a predominantly black Baptist church. ….”Those who believe that real change starts with Washington politicians have been in Washington too long and are living a fairy tale,” he said.
and,
“As someone who grew up in the segregated South, I feel an enormous amount of pride when I see the success that Senator Barack Obama is having in this campaign,” said Edwards. He the added, with a laugh: “Some days I wish he was having a little less success.”
Napolitano and Caskill have endorsed Obama.