In several areas, you ask that I explain to you what my point is or what something means. Let me just wrap it up this way: if you look at the known facts of the transaction and do not see how this can affect Obama’s campaign, no amount of explaining that I provide will help you see it. If you do not recognize what slant Obama’s detractors can put on those facts, no amount of explaining that I provide will help you recognize it. An example of this would be your questioning why it matters who maintained the land adjacent to Obama’s property. Perhaps in your world people maintain the land next door — land they don’t own. In my world, property owners maintain their own land. When someone other than the property owner takes over that responsibility, it raises the question of how ownership of the property is perceived by the parties involved.

If your world differs greatly from the worlds of others who look at the same set of facts, you will naturally put a different interpretation on those facts. Being totally sold on a given candidate can also affect how willingly one opens one’s mind to negative information about that candidate. I’m sure that if this type of information were to come out about John Edwards, I would be struggling to find a way to put the most favorable light on it. And the more someone argued with me, the harder I’d try to redeem him. But in my heart, in my private moments, I’d be taking a long, hard look at the information and perhaps I’d be reshaping my view of my chosen candidate accordingly.

I have no idea what you’re talking about regarding the Google map that shows a building on the property in question in 1999. I do know that when the land was sold to Rezko’s wife, it was a vacant lot. What stood on the lot prior to that has no bearing on the issue at hand. The only reason this whole part of the discussion came up was because you mentioned that Obama and the Rezkos were next door neighbors at the time Obama bought his house or sliver of land (at this point, I forget which). That did not match up with the known facts and I was just trying to clarify the situation for you. That’s all.

I now have a better idea of the cost of the land sales. and Obama’s home which is at odds with some of the reports of the Sun Times article I read.

But none of these indicates to me anything other than a lapse in judgement that if you have Presidential ambitions while you are a Senator, and the connections to know when someone is under investigation by a federal grand jury, where anyone including a ham sandwhich can be indicted, you should possibly back off any business transaction. However, I see no indications that Obama got an interest free, money laundered loan from Rezco.

I maintain that something extraordinarily surpising would have to emerge from this trial to impact Obama negatively, although the very existence of the trial during the apeprimary season suggests that Mukasey DOJ and former White Water girl scout Amy St. Eves have staged the timing of this trial to have as much exposure during the primaries as possible.

One would expect no less of a loyal Bushie Federalist Society judge who received the usual girl scout merit badge of an appointment to the trial bench for loyal service in pissing away $60 million dollars with Ken Starr and Ray Jahn to convict Jim Guy Tucker, to put Jim McDougla in the position where stress over a meaningless urine drug test caused him to have an MI, go into V-fib and die, and Susan McDougal spent 18 months for contempt for refusing to testify.

The DOJ tradition of politically timed prosecutions is vibrant, alive, and well at Sylvio Dante Mukasey DOJ, as DOJ continues to function like the Soprano family.

There is some irony though in Obama soon having the chance to really clean house at Main Justice, EOUSA, OLC, and shovel the shit out of a systemically corrupt agency that engenders so little respect.

I don’t have a link handy, but it might have been a john Kass article inthe the Trib?

Thanks. I tried for a good while to find it.

I’m guessing that this might be in the ballpark of the article you’re referencing, LHP:

The Trib is not letting me pull it up though. I think it’s “Obama Fuzzy About the Fence Tony Built” November 2, 2006.

The Right Wing blogs are rife with this reference, and I was hoping that as sometimes happens someone would quote the article in its entirety. They don’t, and every link to it and in every Way Back Machine type net archive, I’m unable to pull it. The Trib wants you to pay to pull its archives.

Later on I’ll try to piece this together. I know that Kass seems to be the darling of Republican blogs for his attacks on Obama, and Liberal blogs hammer him for being a right wing tool. The trib has a long time reputation as a conservative paper, and many in Chicago complain it’s not conservative enough.

I defer to anyone who consistently reads it or used to be in Illinois.

There are so many hundreds of references to Rezco and Obama, including the blogs, that I’m sure I’ll get the gist of this reference to the fence, and its implications if I read a few more later, and I will as soon as I get the chance and some rest.

1) Hillary fan-gush blogs who embrace the Citicorp robot’s surrealistic behavior of the past week aptly characterized by Bill Maher tonight (the crying, the change and the plaguerism of Obama’s speeches)

2) Right Wing-Nut Blogs and they are easily found.

They all carry the premise and the far flung hope you share with LHP that Obama has done something illegal.

Obama’s landscaper took care of the land that Rezko’s wife purchased and then split to sell some land to Obama. Obama had put up a fence on the property line (he got the permits and had it designed, but Rezko paid for the fence).

This gardening tidbit is helpful how? This fence sharing enterprise/labor is helpful how?

The remainder of the lot that remained in Rezko’s hands was sold almost a year ago to be developed into housing, so apparently it’s a buildable lot.

You might want to try google earth’s street feature to see what’s built adjacent to Obama’s property. The Sun Times reported that there was already a dwelling there in a 1999 article as I clearly repeatedly stated. I’m sure LHP has a contact in Chicago who could do the title searches quickly for you.

Please–relevant how?

The person who bought it is a former (and from what I’ve read elsewhere, current) Rezko business lawyer named Sreenan who says that Mr. Rezko has no role in the project, not even as a silent partner.

Again please. What is “it”–bought what? What project? Please be clear. How does this involve Obama in the interest free loan of laundered money that you and LHP have alleged will boost Edwards and drive Obama from the campaign during or after the trial by Federeralist Groupie and Ken Starr soldier who got her Bushie reward after no significant litigation experience in Federal trials, Amy St. Eves?

Please lend some precision and clarity to this statement.

I’m trying hard not to laugh. How are you connecting Sreenan to any implication of impropriety on the part of Barack Obama?

What Condo project is going up where? Do you mind being specific?

Who, what, when, where, why might impose some structure and specificity on what you’re trying to convey.l

Sreenan/Obama/Uma/Oprah Help me understand please why any of this is remotely relevant? And again where does Sreenan, and a condo project fit into the way I’ve painstakingly explained Obama bought the house and the sliver of adjacent land

Sreenan is too busy to build what Condos where? Obama is involved how?

I think you mean, currently that the land that was owned by Rita or Tony Rezco, adjacent to Obama’s house/lot and the conjoint fence with land tended by the conjoint gardner/grounds keeper–Obama plays roundball for exercise and I don’t know if the Rezco’s ever cut their own grass, but I’m doubting it. No doubt we need to know. I’d be curious as well if Amy St. Eve’s ever gets down in the dirt on her lawn, or Pat Fitz. Is Fitz a Tulip or a Daffodil guy? Blue grass or perhaps turf grass, Zoysia, or Fescue for Amy or Fitzie?

Thanks for the links, I’ll read them carefully and but I’ve sincerely asked you and LHP to connect dots for me that buttress LHP’s serious claim that Obama received laundered, interest free loans from Tony Rezco.

And again, Rezco was as much a mentor to Barack Obama as the thoracic surgeons in LA were helping Britney Spears to become a chest cutter.

I’ve pointed out Obama’s major recent mentors.

And please, Leiberman has not ever been a role model to Obama either. There has been a lot of adaptation of theories from right wing nut blogs lately. I know passions run high.

I have tried hard to spell out that a lot of frustration and anger that is coursing through the veins of firepups of late has to do with a ridiculous egotistical system which has eliminated several candidates within 5 quick days in two very small states–one caucus with Byzantine Red Rover Red Rover rules for picking candidates, and the other a primary.

Both states have a population in which about 10% more or less vote–and the population is 92% white in one state and 95% white in the other. Mexicans and Hispanic voters who have a vested interest in an Immigration system where INS (agency that is part of DOJ) are rude to immigrants–I had to run interference there a couple times myself and they do change their tune when they realize you speak the langauge and can push some buttons to prevent their picking on poor people who are learning language skills going forward. Immigration takes 10-15 years because of an inept, incompetent INS bureaucracy and is complicated by Immigration Judges appointed by DOJ because of a head fake snuck into the so-called Patriot Act by Gonzales and his EOUSA, and veted by one Monica Goodling, she of no litigation experience whatsoever, who were asked if they were good Bushies literally and who have no immigration litigation experience before taking the bench.

I respectfully don’t see how you’ve implicated Obama in anything improper. Surely you know that the Clinton camp and the Edwards camp were informed about Rezco and his associates long before they announced their candidacy, and I do not believe that after White Water St. Eve’s loyal Bushie and Fitzy try this case together really, that anything changes for Edwards or Obama.

Liberal Heart@227 wrote

“I’m getting whiplash following your posts.”

“I’ve noticed how you insert incorrect or conflicting information intentionally” [i.e calling me a liar].

The detail that was conflicting was because BHL is hung up on whether people I don’t know lived in a house or not, a totally tangential fact, while he could never supply any substantive cogent reason why he accused Obama of accepting a laundered interest free loan while comically asserting it was going to put Obama out of the race or in election jeapordy.Of course you don’t consider that a personal attack. Why you don’t is interesting.

Why don’t you be specific since you want to edit me–and tell me what you construe as “personal attacks” on someone who has personally attacked Obama and implied he received laundered interest free loans and I can edit out what it is you want edited out/find objectionable or modify it.

Sylvio Dante Mukasey…

LOL!

I’d think a lot depends upon the party affiliation of the Chicago prosecutor and judge. And, don’t forget, in Alabama a former governor is now in jail because rambunctious Repub prosecutors (with Karl Rove’s direction probably) went for the kill. His crime? “honest graft”.

I would eagerly await a front page blog on the law reviews on surveys that have been conducted that Bush DOJ is prosecuting identified Democratic affiliates 4:1 or higher over Republican affiliates. Siegelman, and Geoffrey Feiger are but a couple of Bushie Prosecutions orchestrated by the White House. They also are targeted as foreplay prior to elections by the Bushies as the US Attorney clusterfuck and the DOJ current clusterfuck display.

One study is here:

The Political Profiling of Elected Democratic Officials: When Rhetorical Vision Participation Runs Amok

Currently the gutless Senate Judiciary Committee has held Rove and Josh Bolten in contempt but the gutless Senate has refused to take action on the Senate floor.

House Judiciary has issued contempt citations for both Rove and Miers, but likelise has taken no floor action.

“They should be fully aware of the futility of pressing ahead on this,” White House spokesman Tony Fratto said. “It has long been understood that, in circumstances like these, that the constitutional prerogatives of the president would make it a futile and purely political act for Congress to refer contempt citations to U.S. attorneys.”

That’s true because Bush, Fielding, Addington, and Gillespie view any legal proceedings, actions of Congress that aren’t endorsements of a vote he wants, or Court opinions as a complete joke. However, if a Democrat wins the White House and Democrats are honest about revamping the systemically syphlitic DOJ, then a prosecution could definitely move forward to convict and jail Rove, Miers and Bolton in 2009.

The Edwards people say Edwards is chompin’ at the bit to kick ass and take names. If there were Attorney General Edwards, it would be as easy for him to make it happen as it is currently for Sylvio Dante Mukasey to obstruct everything that comes his way.

Amy St. Eves is a pedigreed Bushie. She was appointed to the bench with little trail experience because she worked for Ken Starr in a colossal pissing away of $60 million dollars of our tax money that resulted in Jim McDougals having an MI while being pressed by a BOP grunt to piss in a cup for a urine drug screen–DOJ wastes millions of dollars drug testing thousands of inmates who have no prior history of drug use–very probably a kickback scheme to the labs–BOP is replete with kickbacks.

They also secured a contempt citation from Susan McDougal. They were after the Clintons.

I always view it as Ken Starr’s Star Example of Legal Masturbation Writ Large.

Why Jane allows people like you to foul up her nest, I cannot think.

Why? Because it’s the Law!

This is, after all, a ‘foul-mouthed femblog’ as defined by a Republican senator’s campaign, eh.

Is anyone here the least bit concerned that the results in NH might have been “gamed” by a Diebold connection?

“Concerned”? I suppose it depends upon what you mean by ‘concerned’.

I feel absolutely certain they flipped Obama & Clinton’s numbers in machine-counted precincts. Who precisely did it isn’t clear and might never be.

But, I also feel the Iowa caucus overloading with out-of-staters was just as bad.