Paul Krugman rips apart one of the HMO lobbies David Brooks favorite delusions — and those of the GOP, that universal health care and other progressive programs have destroyed the economies of european states.
Since 2000, employment has actually grown a bit faster in Europe than in the United States — and since Europe has a lower rate of population growth, this has translated into a substantial rise in the percentage of working-age Europeans with jobs, even as America’s employment-population ratio has declined.
In particular, in the prime working years, from 25 to 54, the big gap between European and U.S. employment rates that existed a decade ago has been largely eliminated. If you think Europe is a place where lots of able-bodied adults just sit at home collecting welfare checks, think again…
According to the anti-government ideology that dominates much U.S. political discussion, low taxes and a weak social safety net are essential to prosperity. Try to make the lives of Americans even slightly more secure, we’re told, and the economy will shrivel up — the same way it supposedly has in Europe.
But the next time a politician tries to scare you with the European bogeyman, bear this in mind: Europe’s economy is actually doing O.K. these days, despite a level of taxing and spending beyond the wildest ambitions of American progressives.
European governments over the past generation have managed to deregulate some industries without going A.W.O.L. on regulating anything. They have done this while maintaining the social safety net while most of our political system has been determined to rip our social programs apart from their rather modest status — all in the name of lower taxes for the already prosperous. Trying to destroy such programs and perpetually cut upper income American’s taxes has managed to have our standard of living slip substantially in comparison.
And then they blame us "liberals" for advocating class warfare when this is pointed out. The modern Republican Party position on the poor, as shown in yet another debate last night, is that the middle class is supposed to shut up and become rich…or die trying.
(Euro symbol picture from Ariel)
Related posts:
- David Brooks Still Confused About Who’s Destroying the Country
- Brooks: Beware the Rhinos
- David Brooks as Oliver Twist’s Workhouse Villain
- The Price of Public Option “Opt-Out”: Who Will Pay for Red State Folly?
- Rikyrah: Opt-Out States Are “Where the Majority of the Black Population in This Country Lives”
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Attaturk, are you really there for me to say a zeddish g’morning from the BlueBayState
Clearly pre-coffee. That lacks the ?
Most all my posts read as pre-coffee so don’t worry about it.
lets recall the delusion that a (D) Presidency would seriously change things for the better in the USA.
Clinton and Obama are corporate owned, and will not bite the hand that feeds them.
So big pharma and the insurance racketeers will continue to profit from the costly and inefficient current system.
So the next time someone tries to tell you the Clinton will improve anything, remember how she botched the last opportunity for reform.
How did Clinton botch it? I was working and had small kids. Wasn’t paying all that much attention. I remember her trying and lots of people doing what they could to stop her, calling it socialist medicine.
Huh? Last I recalled, ‘Clinton’ didn’t botch anything. She was part of a commission that came up with proposals — which the Republicans and their corporatist allies torpedoes with their infamous (and very expensive) PR campaign.
I blame those who deliberately killed it, not those who weren’t powerful enough to push something through.
I wonder about productivity per worker per hour? We work more hours but the Europeans get more paid vacation and are rested. So maybe they also work harder for the hours they do work?
Which system produces goods quicker, cheaper and of better quality? You can only do 2 not three of these things if tech, workers etc are equal but are we still equal to the Europeans in business?
We have already lost on schools, healthcare, incarceration of minorities and poor people, an unfair tax burden on the poor. I know that I’m missing something.
But just how long until Europe starts to see the effects of these wise policies and passes us?
Good morning Attaturk and firepups. Krugman is my economist-pundit of choice. I read his blog and columns regularly. His book Conscience of a Liberal does a superb job of framing the social-economic history of this country from the gilded age to current times. He is one of our few mainstream writers, along with Naomi Klein, willing to speak the truth concerning the irrational Chicago School fundamentalist beliefs.
That was my take on it.
Anecdotal history /personal experience tells me that whether well situated or worried, Europeans take their health insurance for granted and can’t understand our situation and my friends are either academics or bourgeois.
British, however, know it to be lousy, and supplement it when they can on the private side with “Harley Street Doctors” or ignore National health altogether. (One friend say’s he is alive because he was lucky enough to get sick in France.)
French, it is a class thing to have private doctors and private care but when the illness is serious, life-threatening, one goes to a teaching hospital and hopes that le Professeur so-and-so will take care of you (or makes sure that he does through connections/’piston’or pull. As we do in the BlueBayState in our Boston Medical-Industrial complex.)
Over at Dkos, Jerome a Paris has written recently and positively on his experience with a catastrophic illness in France, and writes on French health care generally.
That’s it for the morning. Got to go. Will be lurking when I can.
Now for coffee (well tea, but coffee seems to be the metaphoric choice here.)
How does Bobo keep his job, like Klein he writes about stuff he knows nothing about. Like Klein and Tweety its obvious that Bobo just repeats the GOP party line all the MSM talking heads all say the same thing at the same time.
It would be nice to read an Opinion piece that contained an opinion by somebody other than Karl Rove.
A Krugman October 16, 2007 blog entry entitled, The productivity slowdown and the trouble with Europe-bashing partly addresses this question by way of a comparison between the France and the US.
Have a look at the graph at the link.
That’s how far right wing we are as a country (in comparison to Europe): my Spanish friend insists that our Democrats would be their conservative party.
Not until we realize that conservatism itself–epitomized by the radicalism of the Bush administration–is at fault for our problem will we ever break free from this stranglehold this ideology has put on our very democracy. I fear we’re throwing perhaps our best–maybe only–chance this coming election to finally begin to resolve this issue, which inevitably will require intense battling.
Re:
Hiilary, who had no other status that that of First Lady, which is clearly not an office of the government, and a consultant named Ira Magaziner set out shortly after the Clintons got to Washington to completely revamp health care. Their first mistake was to decide to meet in secret and create a great deal of resentment not only among those who justifiably have no seat at the table, i.e. the medical insurance racket and Big pHarma, but there were essentally no typical progressives in the mix either. So what you had was “black box” conniving going on for months and months. When the sausage finally got made and released to the public, it was a completely unworkable 1,100+ pages of dense fine print that was utterly incomprehensible. I strongly suspect it was even incomprehensible to the authors.
This made the Hill-care plan the object of total derision by the right wing noise machine and corporate America. And we progressives were left with little to fight for because we couldn’t make heads-or-tails of the plan, or scheme, or exercise in mental masturbation or whatever Hillary’s D.O.A. document was purported to be or do.
In contrast to what did happen, all that really needed to happen was to take the existing Medicare framework and provide it to all citizens. The machinery was already in place. But that was too simple for Hillary the lawyer.
Her efforts set back reform of the health system by two generations. We’ve got about another 20 years to go before we’ll see real universal health care reform get a serious hearing in this nation.
I don’t want to say that “Hillary ruined everything”, but it would be reasonable to suggest that Hillary secretive approach to creating an unworkable document resulted in a very long stay of execution for the most ridiculous health system on the planet.
Good Morning, Firepups!
It’s, cloudy and cool this morning, with occasional rain in central Jersey. Wish I could send it south where it’s needed.
Mr. NJP and I have taken two European trips (France in 96 and Spain in 06). Both times we were able to visit friends with backgrounds in public policy who lived in Europe, so we’ve had a chance to discuss the differences between European and American policies and attitudes. Moving to Europe looks very tempting some days. Making money is not an obsession. Living well, every day, is the goal with time for enjoyable meals, spent in the company of family and friends. There seems to be a better balance between respecting the past and looking to the future. I’m reading Michael Pollan’s The Omnivore’s Dilemma now, and he discusses the difference between Europe’s food culture and the industrialized food production of the US.
I’ve left out some coffee, hot water for tea, and a basket of bagels. Help yourselves!
Gotta run to an extra early meeting. Be good to another.
Work for peace, every day.
PS Don’t forget to wear orange today, to protest the treatment of prisoners held at Guantanamo
Re:
One of the justifiable complaints that the Europeans have is that Paulson and Bernanke are deliberately debasing the dollar and making our exports far cheaper in comparison to Euro-denominated goods. This is most apparent in industries such as aviation where the U.S. government has given a huge gift to Boeing in the export market at the expense of Airbus.
Thanks, Ray.
Bilbo, like you I admire Paul Krugman for his clarity, insights, honesty and genuine compassion for his fellow man.
A couple other authors you might find to be worthy adjuncts to Krugman include Joseph Stiglitz and Antonia Juhasz. Stiglitz was chief economist for a time at the World Bank. He’s won a Nobel Prize in Economics and his writing style is refined. He’s also more of a Keynesian than one of those dreadful acolytes of Hayek or Friedman. Juhasz wrote a really clever book called “The Bush Agenda” about the shock doctine being applied to Iraq via Paul Bremer’s dictat.
I assume you are well aware of Naomi Klein’s work…
RD,
The best account of HillaryCare was written by someone who was there. Go to The American Prospect website, and read Paul Starr’s account of what happened. He served on the committee.
Thanks for the link. I’m following up… :)
Thanks for the reading suggestions, Ray. I’ll try to have a look at the writings of some of those economists. Another one eCAHN mentioned a while ago was William Eastman. There’s so much to read that’s there’s no way to keep up. And I’m about three-quarters through The Shock Doctrine, so, yes, I’m well aware of Naomi Klein. Even went to hear her speak at a local book signing.
Re:
I’m jealous. I realize that Naomi is happily married, but I still got a crush on her. (wink)
Yup, and her husband was with her at the signing. *g*
Re:
Sorry. You didn’t close the sale. Here’s the line that ends my interest in Paul Starr: “According to recurrent accounts — most recently in Carl Bernstein’s shoddily researched biography A Woman in Charge — it was supposedly Hillary’s secretiveness and rigidity that led to fatal decisions about the White House health plan and political strategy.”
I happen to consider Carl Bernstein a national treasure and one of the most wrongfully maligned journalists in America. I have not read “A Woman In Charge”, but I’ve follow Bernstein’s writing since the Watergate days. The way that he found to have every g-damned establishment wonk such as Starr try to stick in knife in Bernstein’s back was the ultimate act of treason to the elites of this country which Bernstein wrote in 1977. In a remarkable article in Rolling Stone magazine, excerpts of which are here:
http://www.whatreallyhappened……media.html
http://tmh.floonet.net/articles/cia_press.html
http://danwismar.com/uploads/B…..0Media.htm
Apparently spilling the beans about the C.I.A.’s Mighty Wurlitzer was not something that the elites were ready for. The other thing they were not ready for is reform. So those 400 journalists and media execs who were on the CIA’s payroll or had other too-close relationships with the spooks? Not one of them lost a job or denounced “the Company”. Business as usual continued and our media is just as much and even more so government propaganda.
As to your Mr. Starr? I’m not buy what he’s trying to sell. He reminds me of other Clinton staffers who have this uncanny knack of claiming to be progressive while being of a corporatist bent that I don’t find remotely progressive in the least.
Good morning, pups. It’s Bobo and the column by Krugman that Attaturk writes about in the Times today. Bobo writes a piece of apostasy and seems to have abandoned St. Ronnie and W. He says today that supply-side economics had a good run, but continual tax cuts can no longer be the centerpiece of Republican economic policy. Mr. Krugman debunks the Republican’s panicky howling and screaming about “Hillarycare” and tells us the truth: that the next time a politician tries to scare you with the European bogeyman we should bear in mind the fact that Europe’s economy is doing O.K.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and I’ve got banana pancakes today. Have a grand day — TGIF!
Thanks for that link. Nice summary of the complex and political attempt.
Not only is the European economy stronger than the US, but they have a much better life style, no GM foods, less agra biz, better food in general, beautiful cities, labor unions, more vacation time, short working hours, fabulous rail and ferry systems. Much less racism, and hardly any poverty or homeless. They drive small cars and sparingly.
They invented the cafe lifestyle where you can spend hours in charming friendly cafes and great pastry!
They are producing the most advance solar and wind technology and applying them.
What’s not to envy about the EU lifestyle. They have it all over the US.
Oh yes, according to the republic party, the homeless and downtrodden are those who gave up on becoming millionaires.
This is a great post to start the day, Attaturk.
Time for my morning verbal diahrrea,
I think the Dems are saying things about health care that they weren’t and wouldn’t 10 years ago so we have to accept that as progress. Ditto the wide-spread support for SCHIP (even though it didn’t become law). Accept it for now and keep pluggin’ and keep our people’s feet to the fire. The opponents are several and have gobs of money. Tough fight, for sure.
But you make I point I really respond to. This idea the R’s push that peopole will only work hard if there’s a possibility of a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow – when most deal with the getting rained on part but the sun never comes out. Thus, no rainbow at all. Nio pot of gold. But, they tell us, it’s just human nature. They can’t change that. The liberals don’t understand, they say – each and every person on the face of the earth is,at heart, a greedy prick chasing that pot of gold.
I’ve always felt this not only wrong but downright insulting. Especially in America, not less so. We’ve seen our parents, grandparents and great grandparents come here with jackshit, bust their asses, soldier through the Depression and then die not at all rich but satisfied with what they’ve done and rightly so. Trust me, I’m no flag waver, but I honestly believe this immigrant experience has given this country a great work ethic. I honestly think that, overhwhlemingly, we take pride in our work no matter what. This is not to say that the Europeans don’t. Of course they do. Their experience is different. They’ve had to work their asses off to rebuild after the devastation of two world wars, for example. Is there a fucking point here? Ok. The idea that without low taxes and a weak safety net Americans-or anybody else- won’t work is not only wrong but insulting. They’re fucking insulting us and time after time so many people just say “thank you, sir, may I have another?” This country needs to wake up. Maybe we’ve started. We’re waking up, maybe, but it’s hard to get outta bed, ya know?
A great, thoughtful post, Attaturk and Krugman, as usual, is spot on, too.
Marion,
Did you see my response to your invite for breakfast yesterday and proposal for your menu-izing a virtual common breakfast the days after the election is won for all pups?
Sorry no time to find it. Search my name or brioche I think it was.
Will check in later for response.
I must confess that the details of exactly how and why health care reform failed in Hillary’s first big iniative.
I thought the Clintons brilliant for attacking the problem when it was just a problem.
But, as evidenced by our current state of affairs, the iniative was ineffective.
End of story.
*I* recognized there was a problem back then, talked to people about it, but was unable to influence a change.
Hillary recognized a problem and was unable to effect a change.
I consider the two of us equally qualified on that count.
Leadership that does not produce results is failed leadership.
Agree that it’s better, but there are drawbacks.
All this is paid for by heavy taxes and in Italy at least, this leads to massive tax fraud.
As for France: Lousy mass public universities and much youth unemployment even middle class youth. street demonstrations by youth about this. For starters.
I’m curious… did you find that long list of progressive news digests I created for you a couple days ago?
I think she botched it ’cause (as with kids) its one of those things ya gotta give people a taste of before they realize they like it. they know they hate it before they even try it. Put a little on their plate. She served up a whole meal of spinich. It’s good but you gotta get people to try it first befor e they know they like it. I wish it was otherwise but it’s not. But, like you, I give her credit for trying. Like others, however, I also think she tried to please the pharmas and carriers. Like many here, (and John Edwards)correctly say about alot of things- they ain’t interested in compromise or givin’ up nuthin’. She was wrong for trying to have health care reform that’s OK with them.
Morning!
mMmmm pancakes!
the maples syrup’s hot and there’s cinnamon…
for the CSPAN junkies among us:
WASHINGTON JOURNAL
Friday, Jan. 11
7am – Newspaper Articles & Phones
7:30am – Charles Bierbauer, SCHotline.com, Senior Contributing Editor
8:15am – Rafi Dajani, American Task Force on Palestine, Executive Director & David Pollock, Washington Institute for Near East Policy, Visiting Fellow
9:30am – Molly Ball, Las Vegas Review-Journal, Political Reporter
The intelligent reform is to extend Medicare to all. This is what LBJ had in mind when he started with Medicare for seniors. That was supposed to be the “camel’s nose under the tent flap” approach. Too bad the Dems never had the cojones to follow through.
‘zactly so.
Yes, I did. I’ll certainly start planning that. Any suggestions or favorites from your blue state?
Morning NJP. i don’t miss that weather. But bagels??? I’m off to OIA.
Kudos to everybody up there who killed the death penalty. makes me proud to be from Jersey.
It’s so obvious to me. I’m flabergasted this is such a difficult concept to get across to most people. Even the damn fools who run GM and Ford should be embracing universal non-profit health care as the most likely way to save their own corporations from the scrap heap. But their intense and intensely un-pragmatic, ideologically hidebound stubbornness prevents them from being remote decent or, hell, even smart.
The ideology of capitalism, as it is practiced in the United States, has become a pathology.
She said you were a peach. or was that NJP. And it didn’t go over my head.
OT: Team Hillary is reverting to form .
Maybe they should bring Dick Morris back, while they’re at it.
Who Molly Ball? Should I know? Wonder if i do know and not realize it.
Yup. Hopefuly they’re growing the needed cajones. hillary included.
Hear, hear. Well said.
I’m afraid you are talking to yourself. Ms. BSRH is reminding me of a song, “The Flight of the Bumblebee”
NOT having universal healthcare is ruining my personal finances. And there are more people like me than not. And I don’t even have any medical bills to speak of. My net income is down due to rising healthcare deductions, as is my sister’s, my husband’s and all the people who work for the 3 businesses that we work for. We worked without a contract for 2yrs fighting this raise in our contribution. We lost. Well, I just got my 1st paycheck with the new changes. Factoring in a new raise for 3yrs and a promotion effective 2008, my net is down $9.00/wk. Frankly, I was relieved that the promotion wiped out the $45/wk deficit I was expecting.
You one a dem subversive types?
I had fun last night sharing my sedition joke. Shall I share that again?
she’s a political reporter for the Las Vegas Review-Journal, no doubt to talk about the presidential election
yes, let’s here the joke.
Greg Palast: Space Invaders: Five Million Aliens for Hillary
Will José Crow Voter ID Laws Pick Our President?
by Greg Palast
Thursday, January 10, 2008
State Representative Russell Pearce of Mesa Arizona has warned us:
“There is a massive effort under way to register illegal aliens in this country.”
How many? According to the Congressman’s office, there are five million: Democrats, he says, who are not good Americans – they’re Mexicans!
Really?! Holy Cow! The Senator has uncovered a conspiracy to flood the voter rolls with Brown Hordes who’ve swum the Rio Grande just for a chance to vote for Hillary Clinton?!…
(Continues at website)
Did not see it. Can you post a link to last night’s comment? The link in the little numbered blue box to the right of each post is a permalink to that post.
I talk to myself all the time.
Reminiscing about immigration, an acquaintance told me that his Russian Jewish anarchist grandmother had come over on the boat in 1908 and landed at Ellis Island.
After the usual physical exam, the last step before she could enter the country was the civic fitness test. The final question from the immigration officer was, “would you attempt to overthrow the U.S. Government by violent uprising or sedition?” The young lady got a pensive look for a second then smiled and answered “Sedition.”
She passed the test.
Please.
No doubt. Maybe someone besides Russert will talk about union endoresments. I’m sick of him.
Oh I saw that. Think I said it was great or something. I loved it.
OK, so put your game hat on. It’s campaign season once again and everybody is looking for the winning strategy. I want to share this with all the campaigns:
In early 2001 newly selected President George Bush made a presentation to the “haves and the have mores” at the Gridiron Club. This exclusive D.C. group consists in large part in the pundit class. One of the reporters asked the President a softball question during the Q & A:
Question: “Mr.President, do you have anything to say about your winning strategy?
Bush: “Why yes, here’s the way it works. You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones to concentrate on.”
As Marion in Savannah points out, David Brooks offers up another stupid column, which opens with the following:
The irony of setting up economic policy in a bar apparently escapes him. I recall several brilliant insights I have had in bars, and none of them survived the cold light of dawn. The idea that supply side economics “celebrates” entrepreneurs has no factual basis. The point of cutting taxes was to insure that the rich got more, while taxes on the poor and middle class (FICA) increased to pay for it. I would trade S&L, CDO and dot.com for a lot of green eyeshades.
The contrast between Brooks and Krugman is so obvious that Brooks’ continued willingness to write about economic matters is proof that he is an idiot.
Anyone from Michigan or know people from Michigan? Kos is asking for dems to vote for Romney. Spread the word.
I thought it was “game face.” Whatever.
Speaking of games. It’s that time again. “What time is that, BFL?”
Time for the BFL heart-over-head pick-of-the week.
Following up on “take Hawaii and the points,” I give you….. drum roll…
Take the New York Football Giants and the points.
Mrs. Bilbo liked that story too.
Yeah. Two but they’re down here. I’ll see if the can do an absentee. Wait. I gotta read that in Kos. Not gonna do it just ’cause they say. I gotta do some prognosticating of my own and hope it’s better than “take Hawaii and the points.” I’ll see.
A History of Economics:
In 1945 Harry Truman had a lot on his plate. And he hadn’t had a lot of experience running a economy, so he allowed himself to be briefed by a number of economists recommended by the Secretary of the Treasury. After about four months of this, Harry asked the Secretary to come into his office. And then Harry proceeded to say:
“Mr. Secretary, from now on I only want you to send me economists who are amputees. Not the legs, but the arms.”
Puzzled, the Secretary asked Truman: “Mr. President, I’m happy to comply with your request, but I’m curious as to why?”
Truman: “Well Mr. Secretary, I’ve been listening to the men you’ve sent me for a long time now, and I have to tell you, if I ever hear another god-damned economist say ‘but on the other hand’ again, I’m going to kill somebody.”
Good Morning.
As the crowd grows that’s throwing Edwards under the bus at some point that bus will continue on it route, and perhaps they might want to think about staying out it’s way.
Miso hapi. :-)
It has been determined that this year we will not be allowed to have a “populist” candidate. We can only vote for corporate candidates. So sayeth big bidness
http://sweetjesusihatechrismatthews.blogspot.com/
PetePierce January 10th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
199
In response to LS @ 177
Okay. I’m really pissed that I have not had the chance to vote for Biden, Dood, Richardson. I feel cheated. Okay.
I feel cheated, because people in a state a thousand miles away from me…moved around a room and gave away votes…and ended up costing the campaigns of people that I feel are really qualified to be president. That is what I am so wadded up in knots about today.
I feel cheated, and I am a rebellious type of person, and I do not like candidates crammed down my throat!!!!!!!!! Okay. Good. I’m fine now.
And, I don’t give a rat’s ass who else endorses who, either. I am a citizen, and I have not had a chance to vote.
You have every serious reason to be pissed. I think more people are looking at and getting acquainted with this screwy system this time around, because there is a lotmore interest in this election due to the revulsion of what’s been in place for 7 years. And if you take a look in what’s going on in EW’s Michigan, you’re going to get a headache and in a very few days it will be all over the media.
You need several dose of this:
Forget the States — Let the Regions Pick the Candidates
_________________
speaking as an expatriate working in germany
over the past eighteen months i have been to a doctor seven times, an eighth time for an outpatient surgical proceedure, three full days in hospital for a surgery and twice to a dentist. i have medical insurance through my employer for which i pay nothing (meaning my salary is separate and not affected). i can’t tell you the exact amount i’ve paid out of pocket but i’m very sure it’s less than 600 euros total and that includes medicine. the Germans are polite but i’ll bet they think Americans are crazy, especially to put up with the so-called medical system we have. i certainly do.
don’t ever think, though, that Europeans aren’t racist. they’re just more sophisticated, and there are plenty of them that aren’t even that. i personally know a number of people of color who have been harrassed, even mugged.
no, I missed it. You mean for my beginning blogosperer? Thanks and please send again.
EW, and Jane told her yesterday thread. which one, don’t know.
I agree, I’m reeling from all this. It’s January 11 for chrissakes
fahrender January 11th, 2008 at 4:58 am
69
PetePierce January 10th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
199
In response to LS @ 177:
for the life of me i don’t know how that PetePierce reference got bundled into my last comment. the ghost is definitely in the machine !!!!
BlueStateRedhead aka BSRH is back, and does that mean I am erratic thinker or I buzz in and out. Anyway, pleased to be thought of musically.
speaking as an expatriate working in germany
over the past eighteen months i have been to a doctor seven times, an eighth time for an outpatient surgical proceedure, three full days in hospital for a surgery and twice to a dentist. i have medical insurance through my employer for which i pay nothing (meaning my salary is separate and not affected). i can’t tell you the exact amount i’ve paid out of pocket but i’m very sure it’s less than 600 euros total and that includes medicine. the Germans are polite but i’ll bet they think Americans are crazy, especially to put up with the so-called medical system we have. i certainly do.
don’t ever think, though, that Europeans aren’t racist. they’re just more sophisticated, and there are plenty of them that aren’t even that. i personally know a number of people of color who have been harrassed, even mugged.
Re:
This is the ghost of your granpappy speaking… “Son, we hain’t had us a good populist runnin’ fer ta da White House since, dagnabit, must been about ‘92 when the durn William Jennings Bryant burned up everyone’s ears about “a cross of gold”. Yup, that be about the last we heard of any o’ dem populists. Next thing ya know’d, why we got bunked up with the sosheelists and Male Mooses, but that’s another story, entirrly.”
Well after RayDuray@46, it better be honey. Seriously if it’s November, cranberry season in the BlueBay. I can contribute a mean cranberry orange chutney that can be put on pancakes.
Idea!!
An election-day-after FDL breakfast cookbook. If Dkos can do a commenters united against trolls cookbook, we can do a commenters united period cook book.
Because I hope that we will be united then around the Democratic candidate whom we will be pressuring to remain or become even more progressive.
Hey! You plaigarizing me? I posted that earlier. Just kidding. Crook & Liars did us a favor by introducing that one to the world. Maybe…
Rotating regional, or something to decide who goes first. Or a national. I’m with you. I have no say in this and I’m pissed. Somebody who’s not ny first choice might (I’m stickin’ with “might.” I’m not throwing Edwards under the bus, damnit, no matter what they say) say they want my support? The degree of my support is gonna depend not upon my support at all but upon the degree to which the R candidate scares me. Right now, they’re even and the Dem candidate, if not Edwards( yes, “if”) will get my wholehearted support. Sigh. There gotta be a better way than voting outta fear, no?
I’m sure-no, I think – you meant that you don’t have to contribute rather than “my salary is not affected.’ I think you salary is affected if you don’t contribute. Your salary is less than it would otherwise be. Am I wrong about this people?
Re:
I’m afraid you’ve taught me a lesson. You see I’m one of those who go on and on and on. It was a beautiful thing, that list. But I was tardy, almost EPU tardy. So, now it’s lost. I have no idea what thread it was on. Oh, it was on the thread where you asked for help. Perhaps you’ll find your request. And then you’ll find my reply. Good luck.
Republicans are a disease and one of the symptoms is ignorance. What is the cure?
For ignorance? Knowledge I guess. You know, the knowledge that the msm gives us. That’s no cure at all. Maybe more blogs like this one or just blogs like this one. Don’t know if the medicine is strong enough.
Brought to you through the magic of Google, RayDuray’s list of progressive news digests.
OK, so I’m planning a party for 300. We are going to have an “Ides of March” march here in Central Oregon. Fifth anniversary of that misbegotten son-of-a-bitch Bush’s profiteering racket in Iraq.
Now what I have in mind is a big parade, and then a really awesome feast of Iraqi cuisine. Can you dig the message here? “PREPARE TO VISIT THE 51st STATE, PEOPLE!” I’m wondering if any of you gourmet culinary geniuses can help me with the menus?
I’m thinking along the lines of thousands of mezas, those wonderful little plates akin to Spanish tapas.
Baba ganoush, dolmas, hummus, sumac infused fish soup, lamb kebabs, halwa, spanikopita, that sort of thing.
Anyone got any favorites to suggest?
Holy Cow! How’d you do that? You be da genius, bro.
Re:
Well, they tried inbreeding. That didn’t work. How about sterilization?
I used Google’s advanced search feature, limited retrieved items to FDL, and searched your handle and “progressive news”. Then I used Firefox’s “Find in this page” function to zero in on your post. I made a career out of doing stuff like this long before the Internet.
I’m still not sure BSRH was around to see it upstairs. I’ll save the link.
You’re a good man, Bilbo.
Just what did you search on to get Google to get back to the old thread? I’m mighty impressed with your researching skills there. :)
Oops, disregard my last message.
Re:
No wonder I’m not a billiionaire. Say, do you crack NSA stuff? I got a few questions I’d like to have answered. :~)
But just how long until Europe starts to see the effects of these wise policies and passes us?
‘Passes us’ is the wrong way to set the comparison. It would make sense only if we were going to engage in a long WWII conflict with Europe, where the GDP matters (or at least used to). The fact is that the standard of living in northern Europe has been close if not superior to that of America for at least a quarter century. You don’t see this as Americans because houses and cars are smaller, and consumer products are more expensive. But quality of life — the life we actually live — is better. On that metric, which is the only one that matters, they ‘passed us’ a long time ago.
Think more like “librarian”.
Hate to tell you, but neither am I.
What Ray said (about Hillary’s culpability for prolonging out health un-care agony)
Frankly, I’d rather not have a creationist determining national science policy, or have a man rich enough to buy his own hospital determine health care policy for those who can’t afford premiums or deductibles.
The GOPers have anti-policy bull’s eyes painted on them the size of Cheney’s ego and they’re hesitating and prancing as if they were the size of Bush’s brain. The Dems should fire those “Democratic” consultants – who, like stock brokers and bookies, win whether their candidates win or lose. Maybe then they’ll start thinking again.
“Passes us?” Average UK wages are already on par with the US. The former Sick Man of Europe must have fewer Wal-Marts, and social and health policies that equitably share burdens that affect all of society. It’s Bush’s “For Me and Mine” policies have set us back.
I agree, I don’t think Hillary botched anything in trying to put forward a better healthcare program/policy. It was somewhat less than fifteen years ago so the lyrics are gone, but I remember the tune well. The corporate oxen were being rightly gored by the plan. They threw their considerable resources into villifying the plan and the Clintons personally. This was the time of the ubiquitous Harry and Louise ads which were pure rightwing bullshit, e.g. I don’t want the government in my medicine cabinet.
I’m recalling this was the beginning of “the vast rightwing conspiracy” against the Clintons. The healthcare plan was anathema to all those who believe that we and our government can do nothing good together for everyone, that the only way to live is rich-eat-non-rich. They were very angry and stayed that way and when they gained power— well, you know all about that.
There is really only one party in America that governs — the Democrats.
The rest of the time, when Republicans are in charge, nothing gets done and they rape & pillage as much as they like. Of course, when they destroy enough the public decides they’d better put Dems back in charge to fix things.
The big question is why our odd-ball Republican party is where it is on the political map. Mostly I think it’s because they can justify, from that position of small government, corporate malfeasance. They call it free enterprise and entrepreneurship (funny it’s a French word for what they do).
FDR saved our economy and introduced government activism in that sphere (it was revolutionary and reviled by the conservatives of his day).
LBJ was more government activism (Liberalism in all it’s glory) and some of it worked well.
Bobby Kennedy began to think of more systemic changes and was killed.
Jimmy Carter worked around the edges and deregulated trucking, airlines and telecommunications while continuing the fight against unemployment.
A long time passes…..
Bill Clinton tries health care reform (we think) and then settles for fiscal responsibility and pay-go and paying down the debt. This is a big hit.
Who is the next person and what is the next step in this trend of Democrats working on economics?
I think Republicans have spent decades and billions of dollars to stop us, destroy the minimum wage, social security, unions and other pieces of the economics puzzle. Who in today’s crop of candidates is the obvious successor to LBJ, Carter & Clinton?
In light of all the problems which piled up during Repub administrations (and to some extent during Clinton’s time) it seems to me we need a Progressive candidate who can take on a lot of big issues.
Has either Obama or Clinton offered anything significant? No.
The candidate is John Edwards.