Go Edwards, anyway.

zed

(((((JANE!)))))

Jane!

Ok, I’m an Edwards supporter too.

I agree that Edwards doesn’t resonate but it’s his delivery not what he says. I notice that other candidates lift stuff from his speeches i.e. “it’s personal” one of his best debate moments was injected immediately into Hillary’s “emotional moment”. JMHO

Just want to add, I was trying to ignore BO early on. I don’t like his senate votes at all, but good golly that man can give a speech! That alone compared to seven years of “is our childrens learning?” is manna from heaven.

I like Edwards, too, but you said it well the other day: Edwards just seems so…2004.

In the NH survey of voter income was the fact that a number of women voted for HRC and, as we all know, women are recompensed to the same degree as are men.

I hope his advance people have improved since I saw him in Ohio. Leaving a crowd milling around a venue with nothing to do* for an hour is not the way to run a campaign…

*As in no buttons, bumperstickers, t-shirts or signs for sale, so there goes an opportunity to get some funds; and no speaker or band to entertain folks who’d come straight from work to meet him.

That is the irony — both the other candidates have been appropriating his content.

It’s his delivery, not his substance that is problematic.

I would love to see a Jane/Edwards live interview on the lake on this very subject sooner than later if possible.

Here is the local take on Huckster the populist:

A populist charges across the Iowa prairie

Smarmy populism

Hmm fast edit

In the NH survey of voter income was the fact that a number of women voted for HRC and, as we all know, women are [not] recompensed to the same degree as are men.

I respectfully disagree. If he sounds strident and pissed off, that’s so NOW. Had enough, America? I think some mixture of advocacy plus hope would be good. Who better than a trial lawyer to clean up the crime scene that is the WH?

UPDATE. why the headbangers are idiots. Because the republicans do it better. Rove racism in WSJ. just posted by TPM.

http://online.wsj.com/article/…..mmentaries

Also a violent out-Willie-Horton anti-Huckabee ad to air before and after the Rethug debate. also on TPM.

and on MSM, seems MoDo’s Derry, NH eyewitness report on HRC’s victory party was written from Jerusalem. Snary about miracles or apparating welcome. Cf.
TPM/Horsesmouth.

C’ya later.work calls.

I have a sinking gut wrenching feeling in my stomach that Edwards is going to bow out anytime now. I think he has run out of money. I have not recieved any correspondence from his campaign today. I usually get an email update/contribute now message everyday.

I will not vote for HRC. I will write-in a progressive over her. I could possibly hold my nose and vote for Obama. I think either one of them can be beaten by a GOPer.

Not surprising given how little media coverage he gets. Low income voters are probably low information voters as well, hence their greater familiarity with HRC. So I don’t think it’s due to the tone of his messaging, but his relative exposure.

Edwards supporter here also Jane. Pains me to say it but I agree about his message. Haven’t followed Huckabee at all so can’t comment about his.

One thing I have clearly noticed as I have “perched” these past few months in rural America. People seem afraid to confront the realities of what’s happened to our economy. They’ll talk about Iraq, immigration etc, but they will not be engaged about the economy other than gas prices.

I have the idea they “know” deep down how bad things are and that they’ll probably get worse. However, John’s message about the corporatists just scares them. They don’t want to and/or are not ready to hear him.

OK thinking out loud, like always. Perhaps the problem is that Edwards comes off as “hired gun” someone to fight for us, instead of “one of us”. I think he is one of us, having bootstrapped himself up, but he doesn’t present that way?

Of course, if you have trouble selling your quality content to the people, that could be a good indicator of ineffective leadership.
And the President is a leader.
(When he isn’t a decider).

I like Edwards policy and attitude alot, best in fact, but we need production out of our next President. Real progress.
And a populist who cannot stir the people is perhaps… better VP material after all.
Hard on the ego that one, tho.

How sad is it that George Bush has set the bar so low for public discourse that my 4 year old is more articulate? That said, Obama’s delivery is fantastic, and whomever they have doing speechwriting for the campaign is very good. Some of the best stuff to come out of a pen since the JFK/Ted Sorensen years.

Oh that smarmy populism article is genius.

That’s it, Marcy, I think you should vote for Mitt:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…../55/434206

I got a campaign e-mail from them a couple of hours ago. Just FYI…

Yep; the Clinton’s should resonate with lower income voters. They’re lower income because Billy & Hilly pushed for NAFTA & moving jobs overseas. Oh wait, they’re the ones who turned to Bush for change in 2000 & because he did such a good job, voted for him again in 2004. Heck of a job?

I got an email as well, Jim.

I think the coming depression(recession) will resonate for JRE, but bemoan the lack of coverage. I hope he hangs in there if only to move the discussion toward the progressive agenda.

I’m a low income votor. I just under 15K a year i can’t be anything but. But what i have? I use to keep informed even if i can’t spare anything for the candidates i want to donate to. I’ve given a bit here and there to FDL because they’ve KEPT me informed. So i won’t make stupid decision in the long run. My only luxury is my broadband connection. I use it well so it’s worth it for what i do pay for it.

fantastic Steve. Shuck the Huck. He’s such a creepy liar no wonder his kid totes a Glock. Mind if I lift a quote here from the ArtTimes.com? mods, is this too long?

Huckabee has boasted all year about cutting working people’s taxes, recalling again in the Monday night debate in New Hampshire that he rammed through the heavily Democratic legislature the first broad-based tax cut in 160 years. It was not the first serious tax cut, but unlike any of the Bush tax cuts it did help mainly working people.

But how did it happen? Gov. Jim Guy Tucker proposed a package of tax cuts aimed at low- and middle-class families in the spring of 1996. But before the legislature met Tucker resigned after a Whitewater conviction. The Democratic legislative caucus adopted his plan as its major initiative. Speaker Bobby Hogue and 82 other Democrats sponsored it, and it passed with no opposition. Huckabee proposed mailing people a $25 check every year instead, but his plan went nowhere.

“Gov. Tucker had worked on that program for so long,” Hogue recalled this week, “and we felt like it was good for the working people. We felt like we ought to pass it out of respect for Gov. Tucker.”

One lawmaker who worked on the package said Huckabee had absolutely nothing to do with it. “I guarantee you,” he said, “that Huckabee had almost no knowledge of what was going on and paid no attention to it. We were amazed the next year when he took credit for it in the campaign, and he’s taken credit for it ever since.”

It’ll be awhile before I jump on the Obama bandwagon, and even longer for Hillary but I’m waiting for Edwards to do..something. I don’t know, the lack of media coverage isn’t his fault but I do hope (long) for something more than what he was saying four years ago.

Your 4 year old has an advantage over GWB, a smart mother!

I did get an Edwards e-mail today, they are trying to raise $1.8 million by the 26th of January.

I don’t get all this “Obama can unite the country” or “Obama can end divisions”….that is nonsense. There is no way a Bushie is ever going to back off the idea of the GWOT and all of the torture and domestic spying and other terror-justified activities Bushco has done; likewise, there is no way a progressive is going to accept those types of activities and illegal war-mongering. JMHO

Good to know. I just went over to his website and chipped in another $25.

gtg pups. Edwards supporters: keep hope alive!

BO was a great orator at HLS, according to NYT article way back that I signaled next door chez Marcy. Let’s give the guy credit for what he does coming naturally. IMHO, orators shape speech writers and not vice versa.

Eyewitness reports on his private meet up here day after NH in the BlueBayState report that although self-reporting himself exhausted and with an obvious sore throat, he spoke well and audience specific.
Slightly OT. The more scary part. With Ma. gov. Patrick Duval, also African-American, there was practically lock down security. Stay in seats sort of stuff.

The clue to Edwards shortcoming might be in his closing ad from NH. This is what struck me about it: it was too wordy and he described himself as an underdog. If I were a low info voter, I would start to get MEGO (My Eyes Glaze Over) after the first 20 seconds. And it would be really hard to swallow how a rich, good looking lawyer and former senator could ever be an underdog. Yeah, maybe 25 years ago, but now? It seems dishonest.
Now, there’s nothing wrong with spending time explaining yourself but I always thought that the purpose of an ad is to make it informative and memorable in the most eye catching way and his ad didn’t do it for me.
Hillary’s ad worked because it was short, fast paced, highlighted her policy initiatives in easy to absorb declarative sentences with accompanying visuals and it ended with a smiling Hillary, and this part is important, her whole face was engaged in her smile. People know a genuine smile when they see it and that’s the last image that was in the ad. Very effective.
So, if it is the lower middle class, low info voter Edwards is targeting, maybe he should figure out a better way of faking sincerity because that ad just didn’t do it.

Good for you!

A lot of folks that should be buying into John Edwards are not. Rightly or wrongly, and I personally think wrongly, they think he is a phony. How he turns that around in this election cycle is going to be very difficult.

I figured that was just very dry wit. ;)

To me, Edwards is the only centrist Democrat left standing. The presidential race is down to race and sex.. not war or peace, health or mandated insurance, labor or corporate welfare, progressive taxation, etc. Only party loyalty and anti Bush sentiment will matter more than what the party really intends to do on the presidential level.

I will continue to push for Edwards but I have a feeling if it weren’t for FDL and Blue America I would be near shutting down my political activist attention for another 3 years.

I just want a president who will stop killing people on our trillion dollar a year credit card.

Exactly. It is frustrating to watch as the two media darlings steal his ideas and take credit for it. Like I said in an earlier post. I have hoped for an equalizer, like Gore to back Edwards and give him some momentum. Hillary has Bill. Barack has Kerry. If Edwards had an endorsement from Gore, I think he would get a 10 point boost. That would make him running about head to head everywhere.

The message only resonates when the media actually conveys it. The virtual blackout of Edwards is probably the main reason. The poor would agree with his message if they actually heard it.

I am an Edwards supporter also. I think it would be good to forward this thread when it is finished to them. What do y’all think? Jane do you have a specific person and email addy we can write to if you think it is a good idea? I agree that it would be great to have him on for a liveblog on FDL.

I agree that Edwards doesn’t resonate but it’s his delivery not what he says

Ding ding ding

You can be the angry candidate without being angry, humorless and stressed out yourself all the time. He needs to learn this: “you take your job very seriously, you take yourself not so seriously”

ANd he is obvioulsy frustrated b/c he is not getting a fair shake from the media (except for Glenzilla’s nifty article about how Edwards was surging nationally)–not for nuthin’ it would not hurt Edwards to mention that (if it still true)

OT:

On a side note, do not forget to wear orange tomorrow in protest of the 6th anniversary of the opening of GITMO. Link to ACLU

Doesn’t make any sense to me either.

I agree that Edwards will likely withdraw after the South Carolina Primary. According to the polls he’s doing terrible there…worse than Iowa or New Hampshire. Yet this is where he should be somewhat of a “favorite son” and where he should be pretty well known. I argued yesterday that a lot of his problems stem from a lack of a support organization. I think that there’s been more than a co-optation of Edwards message, but also of his organization, by Obama.

Here’s a guy that should have had the advantages of being able to covertly run and establish himself in these States starting from 2004. In fact, some of Kerry’s staffers said that it seemed to them that Edwards never stopped running for President (rather than as a team). But his campaign always seems so disorganized and “catching up”.

In regards of either Obama or Clinton beating the Republican candidates…can a guy who can’t get his message to resonate with Democrats, and who can’t draw more than 20% support in a Primary defeat the Republicans? If you look at the Iowa and NH exit polls there’s a lot of rejection of Edwards by Clinton, but especially Barack, supporters. Surprisingly many of Edwards supporters (about 50% in NH) actually don’t find Hillary so bad.

And then you peek over at the Republican side and the bitterness with the other candidates is fever hot. The supporters of these guys don’t really like the other candidates. Their Primaries are as shambolic as Britney Spears right now.

ummm… it’s hard to resonate with someone when they’re not even hearing it…. thanks to no coverage by Korporate Media.

Stop my pounding heart! Me thinks a Gore endorsement of Edwards would garner a whole lot more than a 10% boost. I loves the way you think Irish Jim!

I think some of you are missing the point of Obama’s message and strategy. The point of the rhetoric he uses is to try to remind average Americans that the core values of AMERICA and not just the Democratic party are those that will help out the least fortunate among us. If we can’t bring along Independents and some Republicans into a governing coalition, NOTHING will get done. Strong lefties may not like it, but you have to at least appear to listen to the other sides’ concerns or they won’t support you. Once you have gained their ear, THEN you can convince them on the details. You have to have political capital in order to use it.

Look at Obama’s all around voting record and it is rather liberal. Not perfect, but as good as this country is willing to accept I believe. His books talks about how Bush’s administration has trashed the constitution, etc. He voted against Roberts.

First you get into office, then enact your agenda. As a liberal I have to agree with the Edwards criticism. I love his message, but it does not play well here in VA. Virginia is blue enough upstate that if we can bring the sane Republicans (like my husband) into the fold, we can win the purple states and even some red ones. Edwards can’t do it by sounding so angry, it gets the moderates very defensive.

I figured that was just very dry wit. ;)

Yeah… and I am pissed

Oh that smarmy populism article is genius.

If you want a place to start to get the “low down” on the Huckster, going through Ernest Dumas columns is a good start..

Ernest Dumas

If Edwards had an endorsement from Gore

Be still my heart

It’s important to realize that a Democrat versus Republican mindset will hamper winning, as will a Liberal versus Conservative mindset. There are a lot of traditional small-government and/or fiscal responsibility and/or state’s rights ‘conservatives’ who are the allies of progressives in removing Bush from office (to say nothing of the working class and the poor).

We have to use inclusive language, and welcome and respect classical “conservatives” who come our way. Tribalism and adherence to traditional group divisions will not serve us.

After we get our Constitution back and the neocons out of power, then we can go back to squabbling over whether government funding ought to go to social services or defense. If we don’t get the neocons out of power, the only question will be whether or not its smarter to oppose a totalitarian fascist state, or move to another country.

I agree that Edwards doesn’t resonate but it’s his delivery not what he says. I notice that other candidates lift stuff from his speeches i.e. “it’s personal” one of his best debate moments was injected immediately into Hillary’s “emotional moment”. JMHO

I agree. We are now at the stage of the campaign where everyone is stealing lines from each other. Same thing happened at the same stage in 2004. For example, since Obama’s win in Iowa, notice how all the candidates are now talking about “hope”. The nomination will go to whomever does the best job of stealing lines from the other candidates.

But as you observe, it is more than just stealing lines. One of the reasons Obama won in Iowa is that the articulated a clear vision of the America that he was working for. Edwards has told us a lot about who he is fighting *against*, but very little about what he is fighting *for*. And as I think Reagan proved, people in the lower economic classes understand vision and metaphor better than words and policy statements. Unless Edwards learns from Obama in Iowa, he is doomed to third place for the duration of this campaign.

Bob in HI

Battle of the wingnuts on Tweety — Toomey and Tony Perkins. Funny stuff. Huck isn’t nearly conservative enough…

My wife has yet one more theory in that some people do not want to hear the truth and pick charisma over thinking. I believe she is on to something and I know for a fact that she has excellent judgement.

Huckster needs to learn from Bush that pretending is the value treasured most among the GOP faithful.

Re:

Obama’s delivery is fantastic,

I agree. Today’s Democracy NOW! features a short clip (starting at 8:30) of Obama’s speech from yesterday. It was very reminisent of Martin Luther King’s “ascending the scales” style which comes out of the Southern ministry tradition. It was classic “call and response” and it was clearly resonating with the sudience.

There’s no doubt about it. Obama is the most gifted orator in this election cycle. I wonder, though, who is going to come up with this year’s “where’s the beef?” reality check…

Worth repeating:

One of the reasons Obama won in Iowa is that the articulated a clear vision of the America that he was working for. Edwards has told us a lot about who he is fighting *against*, but very little about what he is fighting *for*. And as I think Reagan proved, people in the lower economic classes understand vision and metaphor better than words and policy statements. Unless Edwards learns from Obama in Iowa, he is doomed to third place for the duration of this campaign.

For those Democrats who work hard but don’t make a lot of money, the DLC’s chosen candidate is for you. And former board of Directors of WalMart, and second largest recipient’s of big pharma funds, and candidates who like the so called “the third way”, and supporters of spending $15,000,000,000 per month on wars, rather than say education for our kids, they’re for you.

I support Edwards.

Looks like Edwards has 12M
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp

Another observation on Huckster the Populist:

But populist rhetoric more often than not is a pose disguising royalism. After 15 years in politics, it is still hard to say whether there is any conviction behind Mike Huckabee’s talk or he is just another Republican who subscribes to the doctrine that the best politics is to capture votes from the poor and money from the rich by promising to protect each from the other.

artimes

My fellow Dems. If you don’t want much change, then Obama and Hillary are the prime choice.

No wonder a lot of people don’t vote.

Please. Either Hillary or Obama will bring plenty of change from the Bush years. That is just a fact.

I should have been more clear. It is the “framing” of the media of Obama that I was referring to, not Obama’s message…

You write, “If we can’t bring along Independents and some Republicans into a governing coalition, NOTHING will get done. Strong lefties may not like it, but you have to at least appear to listen to the other sides’ concerns or they won’t support you. Once you have gained their ear, THEN you can convince them on the details. You have to have political capital in order to use it.”

I understand and respect what you are saying. I think that what needs to get “done” is to stop the crazy war-profiteering war-mongering..stop torturing…stop stealing tax dollars…stop lying and looking for other ways to get us into more wars…that is what has to get “done”. That isn’t a “strong lefty” position…that is a humanitarian position and a sober position.

If Independents or Republicans decide to choose to be humanitarian, then fine they can get on the bandwagon, but if they want to bring along their war-mongering, fear flaming, and expect some kind of compromise…well, that is just not an option in my mind. No Democratic candidate should ever compromise humanitarian values to appease the opposition to get votes or support and allow compromise to filter into their administration. Just sayin’.

That is the irony — both the other candidates have been appropriating his content.

It’s his delivery, not his substance that is problematic.

Totally agree. Confession. I live in NC within a stones throw drive from where Edwards lives.

I am in sync with virtually every one of Edward’s positions on issues.

You are right. His delivery is problematic. For what it is worth his NC/SC dialect is a big detriment. It shouldn’t be so but IMHO, it is. The flat vowels (stretching them out into two sylables) that most North Carolineans have just doesn’t fit the image most of the country visualizes in its next president.

Many in this area don’t have it, Edwards does. In spades. It doesn’t resonate with the rest of the country. It plays right in with the “pretty boy, Breck, $400. haircut” label that his opponents have promoted. It obviously went over well in a NC court room, but nationally, not so much.

Is it fair? No way! But that is the way it is, whether you, or I like it.

could be, but he does mention the sarkisians, the mill workers, no insurance victims, etc all the time, so i don’t think that’s it… and obama doesn’t really talk that much about who he’s fighting for, or specifically, he makes a point to avoid the fighting words, and goes for conciliation, unity etc… some people (incl. me) forsee and need a fighter, other people may just want to get along

anyone with a brain would be change- that’s how bad it is (literally)… so that’s a low bar.. we’re talking real fundamental change

Class war been’s waged since Ronnie Raygun’s Inauguration in 1980.

Now, we fight back!

So was I.

Agreed. What I was trying to say is that if we (and I include myself in the “strong lefties”) get the political capital, we won’t have to compromise to get things done.

Oh yes. Our nation will once again become the land of milk and honey. And we can most assuredly expect peace in the world. And no more empire building and outsourcing under Obama or Hillary.

If Hillary or Obama is my party’s nominee, I will not be voting for them and the DLC, I will be voting against the GOP.

That is the irony — both the other candidates have been appropriating his content.

It’s his delivery, not his substance that is problematic.

Which is why it’s very important that Edwards stay in the race. To keep Hillary and Barack from starting their drift toward “the center.”

Only have a few mins

Dunno what to say about the message

I’m putting my feet where my mouth is and am going to Reno this weekend to go door to door for Edwards. I’m either voting for Edwards or Kucinich … depends on if they stay in it.

Not voting for Hill (her stand on issues)

Those votes go to the Democratic column too.

Say it ain’t so, Joe…

The Surge Worked
By JOHN MCCAIN and JOE LIEBERMAN
January 10, 2008; Page A15

http://online.wsj.com/article/…..mmentaries

I am sick to death of wishy-washy Democrats. We need change. Dare I say radical change? Harry, Nancy, Hillary and Obama. You go guys and gals!

As others have noted, both HRC and Obama have lifted a good chunk of Edwards’ message. If they’d lift his policies as well, I’d be happy.

I am very sad about Johns chances but as I look at Obama I keep hoping that he can bring the best and brightest(maybe Edwards) into his administration.

I put a note on one of the Edwards campaign blogs about his statement “America is so much better than that.” When I look at the videos, that’s the one line that always seems to get so much positive reaction from the crowd. He also needs to hit harder on some of his specific ideas and how they tie in to the situations real people are faced with–especially his economic development ideas for women, which are fantastic.

I’m not quite sure I understand your point. Are you telling me if I vote for my party’s (Dems) nominee then my vote is a vote for the Democrats? Or is there something deeper I am missing? ;0)

I agree that Edwards could message better. But as a member of that economic underclass, ever since Reagan, I’ve found it true (however ugly) that a significant number of voters in the underclass are simply incredibly dumb.

I hate being offensive, but the Republican goal of maintaining a large undereducated underclass by destroying public education for the past quarter century has had an effect that’s hard to overcome. Many are ruled by bias and superstition that has been ingrained in them by politicians and theocrats.

By no means am I suggesting all or even a majority fit that bill. But enough do so that good messaging alone cannot solve the dilemma.

Very good. ;0)

could be, but he does mention the sarkisians, the mill workers, no insurance victims, etc all the time, so i don’t think that’s it… and obama doesn’t really talk that much about who he’s fighting for, or specifically, he makes a point to avoid the fighting words, and goes for conciliation, unity etc… some people (incl. me) forsee and need a fighter, other people may just want to get along

Ah, but there’s the trap. Edwards has named some of those *who* he was fighting for (”the sarkisians, the mill workers, no insurance victims, etc “), but that is a qualitatively different issue than *what* kind of America he is fighting for, which is what Obama has so articulately expressed (and Reagan before him). If you make it a *who*-centered debate rather than a *what*-centered debate, it turns everything into class warfare.

There is a huge difference between focussing on the aggrieved parties that you are fighting for (Edwards’ forte as a trial lawyer), and the vision of America that Obama is articulating. It is a positive vision rather than a negative one. Its really a different frame. And I think its a frame that resonates better, especially with the so-called Reagan Democrats. I hope Edwards understands this point in time, because he really needs a course adjustment.

(PS– I support Edwards & Kucinich)

Bob in HI

Some great (and depressing) analyses here. Could someone(s) give a list specific wording or reframing of his issues that they can suggest to John? How does he reframe ‘fighting’? Economy? Does he need to add other issues like education (he has done great things personally in NC), reiterate his healthcare plan? Does he need to take advantage of invitations like Ed Schultz to appear on his show? (He has offered to give over a whole 3 hours to any candidate who will spend that time. Kucinich is the only one that has taken him up on the offer. When Ed (who is not my favorite) had a show where he had several candidates lined up for one show, Edwards showed up 15 minutes late, and so only had time to make one point.)

I am frustrated – how can we help in a positive way addressing the many justifiable criticisms expressed here about his message and his delivery? I too have been sending him all of the money I can – but as people have pointed out, that may not be the problem or the solution.

There a fire.

Hillary: I have built better fire departments before & I will work to do it again.

Obama: We must all get together for better fire departments.

edwards: Let’s douse it with water.

I see Edwards as having two problems. One is the accent. I love the guy and his accent makes him seem stupid to me. That’s my northern prejudice.

The second, and greater, problem is anger. Edwards is angry about what’s wrong in this country. Many of us are. But anger is not attractive. People don’t like angry people. People don’t trust people who are angry unless they themselves are already angry. He may be getting the crowds he speaks to to his level of anger, but when those angry summations at the end of his of speeches are played to another audience on the national media — without the hour of storytelling that lead up to them — he just looks mad.

If President Obama or President Clinton screw up, they will be single-termers.

Christy has a new post upstairs. And it’s very meaty.

Re:

Some of the best stuff to come out of a pen since the JFK/Ted Sorensen years.

Excellent observation. And would you believe it, one of Obama writing staffers used to be a Sorenson assistant.

Newsweek: “Now (Obama editor/writer Jon) Favreau has his own team: Adam Frankel, a 26-year-old who worked with Ted Sorensen on his memoirs, and Ben Rhodes, a 30-year-old who worked with Lee Hamilton on the 9/11 commission’s report.”

I have to say I’m delighted with the Favreau-Frankel combo. But a Hamilton staffer? Not so much. There’s just so much about Lee Hamilton that is redolent of inside fixer and truth suppressor that it’s hard to understand what Rhodes role is here. Could he be the sort of “handler” we so often used to see shadowing public officials in Saddam’s Iraq or Bashar’s Syria?

Edwards has ideas. HRC and Obama have platitudes. I know which approach I prefer.

You got it. Nothing deeper.

More than every Republican but Giuliani, though. And it should be enough to hold him through South Carolina. But he’s gonna need a lot more than that for “Tsunami Tuesday”…so Edwards supporters…get out that checkbook!

Is that the same Jon Favreau of Swingers and Elf?

I’m sure that is want Edwards wants his message to be, but what it sounds like is:

I’m angry the fire got started in the first place.

To reiterate, I like Edwards, its just his tone that is way off for this election.

Well now… that’s a relief. ;0)

Great Analogy. I love it.

I would love to see a Jane/Edwards live interview on the lake on this very subject sooner than later if possible.

Ooooh! *waving raised hand wildly* meee tooo! Can we? I think it might do their campaign some good – and I wanna help he and Elizabeth soo much.

Hah! Perfect. Except Edwards says: “My Daddy was a fireman and I’ll always carry a firehose to douse the fire with.”

What a shame that Firedoglake has chosen to talk down Edwards campaign just like the MSM.

But I’m actually glad that this entry was posted because it gives me the chance to ask about this piece I found on Media Matters website. This is a partial transcript of Peter Fenn on Glenn Becks program:

BECK: All right. Peter. John Edwards, I listened to him last night give a speech, and, I mean, why not just start wearing the Soviet star on your head and the Workers World Party? Good Lord in heaven. Was it a mistake for him to go after her for crying and then also to join this great Soviet state?

PETER FENN (Democratic strategist): I’ll tell you, I think he is about — he’s a parody on himself. He’s so over the top, this guy, when he criticized Hillary and said, “Well, you know, you have to be tough to be president,” I thought to myself, “Buddy, what is your problem? I mean, what are you thinking?”

First of all, it’s not going to help you. But, you know, I think Edwards is — you know, he’ll go on, he’ll be around. We’ll have to deal with — and I’ll tell you, if they cover every one of his speeches where he says the exact same thing every single time –

BECK: Thank you. Thank you. Guys, thanks a lot.

Peter Fenn, Amy Stoddard and Bill Press have all made the rounds attacking Edwards on shows like Beck & Tucker. They have made numerous appearances on these shows and they always vilify Edwards. Now what do all three of these people have in common? All of them are Clinton supporters despite their claim to be neutral. I want to hear some outrage about other Democrats using right-wingers to attack other Democrats and then maybe I’ll feel like talking about Edwards message not resonating. If I’m coming across as angry it’s because I am. And if any Hillary supporters want to claim these people aren’t supporting Hillary I still want to hear why no one in the DNC or on the blogs has talked about this outrageous behavior on the part of these so called Democrats.

yeah, i agree with you.. ultimately it don’t matter what “it” is, just what people THINK “it” is. thus goes the votes.

OT OT — Technology Chatter Alert

Re:

My only luxury is my broadband connection. I use it well so it’s worth it for what i do pay for it.
reply

I’m in Bend, OR and we have a very wonderful new thing happening here. A tech-savvy friend of mine just signed up two days ago for this service.

I’ve no idea what you might be paying for your broadband connection, but here in Bend I’m using the Cable TV system and it runs about $45/mo. for the cable modem service, twice that including the dreadful TV. I’m strongly encouraged to swith to I Love My WiFi. I can pay for it in less than two months rental saved. The deal is $160 for the signal receiver, and then free forever. As my friend said, if this vendor is stable, this is one of the “deals of a lifetime”.

Currently my friend is bringing in Bittorrent and files at 1,800 Kbps. I peak at about 400 Kpbs on my connection.

Welcome to the future.

Re:

Is that the same Jon Favreau of Swingers and Elf?

Newsweek says no.

yeah, i agree with you.. ultimately it don’t matter what “it” is, just what people THINK “it” is. thus goes the votes.

Yup – it is all about perception! I believe John can change his message to alter the perceptions without changing who he is and what he stands for. I hope he hears us. We need him to win!

that’s a sad thought since the democratic party is almost as crooked and broken as the republicans- they win that race… by a whisker!

if our vote for the nominee is just a vote for the party, then i’d have to find something else to do… so, i’d have to disagree with you, or else not vote.

A better analogy would be:

Edwards: These mofos deliberately started a fire and everything is burning down! Let’s put the fire out and then go get the bastards!

Clinton: Well, that fire is hot and I helped to start it, but if you’ll stand aside, I’ll put it out and talk it over with the other arsonists about how to avoid this kind of fire in the future.

Obama: Fire? What fire?

The reason why I think Obama is doing good is because he didn’t vote for the use of force against Iraq (he spoke out at the time against going into Iraq) like Hillary & Edwards did.

Edwards has ideas. HRC and Obama have platitudes. I know which approach I prefer.

Agreed. Obama in particular is quite good at a whole eloquent mouthful of hot air and doublespeak, and he looks good while delivering his lines.

Edwards too angry? Not for me, but then my default state has been RAGE since 2000. Sure, are most Americans more interested in the next top model or whatever? No doubt. And no doubt they want a feel good, good looking candidate.

But if you’re one of those millions who is slipping through the cracks, losing your house, can’t afford prescriptions, or basic care for yourself or a child or parent or spouse, or you’ve lost your job and there is no replacement, or your spouse is back from Iraq all fucked up and there is no help for him or her, then I bet Edwards resonates just fine.

And by the way? There is not a damn thing wrong with his message that some funding and some equitable air time wouldn’t fix in a hurry. I was in NH, I saw the HUGE disparities in cash being pumped into the three top Dem campaigns. There were no Edwards signs out. The HQ didn’t even have the damn metal wickets to put out the dinky sized signs.

And the media? Has been completely ignoring him, unless they talk about how finished he is, or how mean to pile on poor Hillary. Or how he’s washed up and out of money.

I sent him more today, my 5th donation to his campaign – two weeks salary so far, and I am broke. But I cannot afford to sit on my hands and watch the smooth well funded money campaigns buy their way the Oval Office.

I don’t know all of them but I quit listening to Bill Press long ago on my local Air America station. He’s so overboard with his Clinton-love and otherwise strikes me as precisely that entrenched Village elitist that Digby so eloquently rails against.

I wouldn’t equate that with Jane’s critique, however. Edwards only needs some fine-tuning. Personally, I think he’s vastly improved in overcoming his Southern twang compared to ‘04, I agree that he could change the tone more from anger to a more confident ‘we can do it’ tone. And I think he’d do better by singling out specific corporate sectors instead of all corporations. Focus people on Big Oil, Big Pharma, Insurance Bureaucrats… specific ones that many folks distrust.

I agree with many commenters above. Edwards is too angry, 24/7, and I have heard about his constant late arrivals at events.

I sent him an e-mail this morning: If you don’t win N.C. or Nevada, please withdraw so that we don’t have H.Clinton for the party’s nominee.

I like the specifics of his programs, but he isn’t too likable.

And I thought you were going to say:

Obama: Let’s roast marshmallows and sing campfire songs together.

;)

I’m going to start pulling the transcripts from the Tucker show beginning with last nights show and start posting the discussions about Edwards here. I’ll let everyone make up their own minds if they think there is some dirty campaigning being done. In the meantime I will point out that all of these “Democrats” that come on Tuckers show are together on one blog called The hill’s pundits blog.

http://pundits.thehill.com/

Today was the first day that I saw that Peter Fenn is also making his anti-Edwards comments on Glenn Becks show.

If people are going to stress likability over vision in a Presidential candidate, then we’re in serious trouble. The same trouble we got into when the media started talking up W as someone you’d like to “have a beer with”

We’re also donating money we really don’t have to spare because we believe in what Edwards is trying to do. Unless we fight the special interests nothing will ever change in Washington.

I got an email from the DNC today asking me to donate money to them. I sent them back an email telling them they were not getting any money from me as long as they allowed Democratic pundits to go on Tucker Carlson’s show and eviscerate Edwards. I also asked them that if they are supposedly neutral in this race why they haven’t said anything about the media pretending like Edwards 2nd place finish in Iowa didn’t happen.

I want our next President to be outraged enough about what has happened to our country to take the following actions upon taking office:

Remove the words, “The Homeland” from all language when referring to the United States of America.

Commence aggressive diplomatic relations with everyone in the world.

Demand that the Energy plans that Cheney refused to make transparent, be released.

Hold all former officials involved in the torture of prisoners accountable, close all CIA camps overseas.

Hold all former officials responsible for losing trillions of taxpayer dollars…accountable.

Cease and desist all domestic spying without a warrant.

Appoint a fearless, honest Attorney General to clean up the DOJ.

Redeploy the troops from Iraq and close the Embassy.

Ban Blackwater.

Immediately respond to dispossessed homeowners in the City of New Orleans and compensate them fairly at true pre-Katrina market value or current market value, whichever is higher.

Immediately, demand funds to rebuild and/or reinforce all of the levys and bridges in the US that endanger citizens.

Demand that Israel and Palestine live as free separate states, and no US $ to any state in the world that refuses to get along with the rest of the world.

Investigate the drug/arms trade in Afghanistan and South America.

Follow the law regarding the Mexican trucks entering the country uninspected.

Immediately, demand all ports be US run and operated, and all cargo entering be inspected.

Remove the tax cuts for the rich.

Tax all US companies outsourcing manufacturing.

Full speed ahead on all Global warming initiatives.

That’s just for starters….

Good for you hawkseye36. Hope & trust you’ll share if you get a reply from candidate Edwards.

Chris Matthews just opened his Hardball braying the “culture clash” within the Democratic party between Hill and Obama – as if Edwards is completely off the radar. Pathetic.

I’ll vote for Edwards in our primary, because his message is populist and the other two front-runners are corporate, capitalist lackeys albeit better than any Republican. But I cannot listen to Edwards for more than a few sentences: his anger, his strident tone which is made more unpleasant by his strong accent, his egocentric assertions (i.e. I have fought, I have won, I will whip them for you, I, I, I. Populists want to hear “we”.), and then there are the habitually mispronounced words like im-port-ant instead of im-por-tant which make my skin crawl in expectation that I’m going to hear “nuculer” soon.

I’m not happy voting for him, but I will. When the convention is over I’ll hold my nose and vote for whichever of the two front-running phonies is the candidate, but I won’t be happy about that either. Frankly, I think we’re gonna get screwed some more.

*nods* Yes! And could we, please, load a plane with Bush, Cheney, et. al., and send it to the Hague, Netherlands?

I want:

Whitehouse – AG
Biden – Secretary of State
Richardson – UN Ambassador
Secretary of Defense – anybody who hates Cheney and the Neocon policies.

I want:

A Secretary of Agriculture that stops Monsanto and the like.
EPA – Global Warming Expert
Education: I want someone who makes it feasible for all citizens to go to College if they want to.
Healthcare: I want what Canada, France, Norway, England…I don’t know which, but I want full universal health care for all Americans.
Immigration: Just enforce the laws that are on the books.
Raise the minimum wage for all hourly workers to a livable wage.
Ban lobbying in Washington. Just flat out make it a crime, if it involves money exchange or percs.

LS, great list. And whitebeard, the Hague thing? I live to see those two, and their henchmen, on trial for International War Crimes.

First thing.

I am mad, and I understand why Edwards is mad too. I want my candidate to be pissed off, because it is entirely appropriate anger.

If we’re worried about things as superficial as accents and pronunciation, then we’re in even worse trouble than I thought. Do we really need to be concerned with our candidates giving us happy talk in a neutral accent and pronunciations compatible with whatever we deem correct?

I guess this explains why no candidate I’ve ever supported since 1976 has ever made it through the primaries intact (Muskie, Udall, etc.) I’m totally out of synch with how most other Democrats think.

And let’s have an immediate end to corporate subsidies – Big Oil, Big Agriculture etc. Put that money into small farms, small businesses, and green technologies.

And let’s have the uber wealthy fork over some fucking taxes.

Mad? Yah.

Yeah!!!

And I want Addington and Fielding and Yoo…disbarred.

If we’re worried about things as superficial as accents and pronunciation, then we’re in even worse trouble than I thought. Do we really need to be concerned with our candidates giving us happy talk in a neutral accent and pronunciations compatible with whatever we deem correct?

Yes, because we are a country that is increasingly filled with stupid people. And no accident, with wonderful educational programs like No Child Left Behind and the massive campaign to dumb down our educational system.

I’m a teacher. I’m see high school text books that are laughable. High school texts in which big print, colorful fonts and groovy pictures dominate. Designed to keep low attention spans low. I won’t even use texts that have been printed in the last 20 years. I use tattered old duct taped text books, that assume a student has the capacity to think.

In fact, I wish we could take Bush and Cheney and all of their crony’s citizenship away and make them citizens of “The Homeland”…then drop them off somewhere outside of the United States of America…the Netherlands would be quite appropriate. American law is to not torture. They don’t deserve to be citizens.

Low income voters are low information voters. ‘nough said.

As for Edwards dropping out, if you support Obama better hope not. Edwards prefers Obama, but from what I can tell his support would probably mostly go to Clinon unless he made a /very/ strong endorsement of Obama.

Also: Obama’s key economic advisers despise Social Security amongst other things and Clinton is a conservative democrat.

Americans are getting sold a bill of goods again. Last time around I supported Dean (Clark second) because he actually identified the things that needed to be fixed. This time Edwards – has Obama or Edwards repudiated the GWOT?

No.

Right then, why are we even discussing this.

America needed Dean, it needs Edwards. It won’t get him, and in 4 years I’ll still be writing articles on the lousy bloody economy.

Just remember — you get who you vote for.

And…make Cheney give us back all of the money he helped Halliburton and KBR steal from us.

s/ just remember, you get who Iowa and NH voted for…./s

Well, wouldn’t it be poetic justice if “some” were to be the object of rendition, spirited away to a place such as …. the Hague!

Yeah those new-style textbooks make me puke. It’s like fastfood or candy for the brain.

I love Edward’s message but he is as cold as ice. See the way he hugs his wife (when he gets around to it). I know that is not what we vote on but…and we are a selfish people he has to say what he is going to do for the middle class. I know his positions will help the middle class but we are also a dumb people, he has to say middle class…because believe it or not most people who are really poor think they are middle class. He is also doing what he did in the last election, everytime I see him it is almost the same speech. Yeah, it’s a stump speech but after a while he needs to shake it up I am starting to glass over.

“Just remember — you get who you vote for.”

Actually, it has seemed to me that I only get to vote for whomever parts of Iowa and New Hampshire with the assistance of a complicit media offers me for choices. Both of us here would have voted for Dean, but he was assassinated before our primary.

Sounds like rats jumping off a ship in here.

How he hugs in wife in public is now also a criterion for judging Presidential candidates? Is everyone turning into Tweety and MoDo?

Quite the list! Can’t say I disagree…

“How he hugs in wife in public is now also a criterion for judging Presidential candidates?”

Most people look for clues in behavior to judge a person’s sincerity, honesty, authenticity. Yes, we listen to their speeches and sometimes read their white papers *cough*, but when we see them ignore their wife in a rush to get to a donor or shove someone out of their way we judge, I think, rightly of their priorities and character.

I think Elizabeth understands by now how campaigns work. They’re with each other how many hours a day, with how many people vying for his attention? It’s a Presidential campaign for goodness sake, they’re not just casually wandering through a mall.

We see too much emphasis on superficial personality traits. What you see isn’t always what you get. Some candidates are just good actors.

This looks like a comment I’d find on a right-wing blog.

Jane, I’m surprised you can evaluate any data coming fro NH at all. You forget the “tear voters” who came to the defense of women.

And….. John Edwards message is certainly getting out. Its been coming out of the mouths of Hillary, Obama, and for a moment Huck too. Their Iowa eve speeches almost directly replayed Edwards’. Especially Hillary who’s tear stained ploy reflected Edwards’ sentiment….. except for the whiney “its harrrrrd” part.

So your devaluing John Edwards voice in this is laughable since if it weren’t for him, we’d be on the coronatin express heading full steam ahead for the edge of the flat earth.

Three pizza restaurants within a block of each other

Hillarys Pizza sign:
Best Pizza in the State

Obamas Pizza sign:
Best Pizza in the World

Edwards Pizza sign:
Best Pizza on the Block

I fully support Edwards, and have sent his campaign donations whenever possible. His positions resonate with me, and I believe he’d make a wonderful president. However… I’ve been thinking a lot in the last few days about what needs tweaking, and why he’s failed to catch fire with primary voters. I agree with other posters here in hoping that Jane will pass this thread along to the campaign.

As others have said, the “fighting for us” part of the message MUST be followed by the why– his vision for what America should be, where he wants to lead us, what he wants us to do. Follow the “you can trust me to wake up every day fighting for you” by “let’s imagine together what America can be”. The passion, energy and intelligence are there– but he needs to soar some, too.

The pundits have marginalized him by labelling him as angry. He needs to build his speeches to a crescendo explaining his righteous anger- anger on behalf of those whose voices aren’t heard. Perhaps he even should address the bogeyman that he advocates class warfare head on, and dispel it.

I understand completely that limited dollars make it imperative that JRE use every bit of free air time to recapitulate his talking points. However, I’d like to see his speechwriters get in high gear and retool those points to more appropriately fit the circumstances of his remarks. Second place finish in Iowa– please don’t forget to be gracious to the first place finisher. A distant third in N.H.? How about something a bit more inspiring than the standard stump speech?

Finally, much has been made of Hillary’s unguarded moment this past weekend. It seems to me that John Edwards great strengths- brilliance in debate, inhuman reserves of energy, and rock solid message discipline– may also be a weakness. An unguarded moment showing a more thoughtful, reflective, tender side of him wouldn’t be amiss. I admire him for his reluctance to talk about personal tragedies, but letting voters see how his son’s death, or Elizabeth’s illness, have shaped his desire to help others, might give primary voters a sense of personal connection that they haven’t felt as yet.

Love the guy, and Elizabeth, too… would like him to turn this around…admire him, no matter what!

Wow, this is amazing to me. I love Edwards and will vote for him. I don’t think he sounds angry. I think he sounds like a man telling us what the problem is and how to solve it. His delivery suits me just fine, and I say that after gobbling up whatever video of him I can find and watching and rewatching it. I do wish he’d use new material, enlarge on his themes. Especially now that everyone else is stealing them. I am distressed that the media are ignoring him and it bothers me that some here think he’s on the verge of dropping out. He said he’s in it to the convention. Aren’t we supposed to believe him? Rather than interviewing him about what’s wrong with his delivery, how about posting videos showcasing his positions. His delivery is just fine for this Ohio girl.

Ditto. His message and tone resonate just fine with me. No other candidate this cycle comes close. Now, if Howard Dean was running, though…..

I will vote for John Edwards. I will keep sending money to the Edwards campaign.

umm, you should speak only for yourself… there’s a big difference between saying edwards’ messaging needs some adjusting to better click with the mass audience, and going so far as saying he’s unlikable… he’s unbelievably “likable”- inspiring more like.. but i’ll speak for myself since i told you to speak for yourself.

For me, it’s Hillary’s and Obama’s message I’m missing. This is something I posted in an open letter to them over on DU tonight:

Dear Senators:

No need to ask John Edwards. He already told us he won’t negotiate, ever, with greedy corporate critters. He says they’re the problem, not the solution. But you two think those folks will help solve our problems if we just sit down at the table with them — to talk it out and work it out. All it takes is negotiation.

Am I the only one wondering if, when you sit down to negotiate, you’ll negotiate with the same set of priorities the rest of us have? I’d like some straightforward information from you two that’s as revealing of your stances as John Edwards has been regarding his. We know where he stands. Now it’s your turn to tell us what you’ll do to bring about those wonderful changes you’ve been promising us.

Specifically, this is what I want to know:

Which health care concessions will you be willing to make when you sit at that table? Which of the things that are most dear to us are you willing to give up — all in the interest of going along to get along?

What price point will you work toward when you sit at that table with drug company executives? Which medications are you willing to let them sell for pennies in other countries while they sell them here for hundreds of dollars — all in the interest of going along to get along?

How much environmental damage are you willing to tolerate when you sit at that table? Which of the protections for our planet and our people will you give up — all in the interest of going along to get along?

What energy policy concessions are you willing to make when you sit at that table — all in the interest of going along to get along?

Which jobs will you let corporations take away from American workers when you sit at that table? Which families will you fail to stand up for — all in the interest of going along to get along?

You’ve told us the only way to confront our challenges is by getting people and corporations with conflicting interests to work together. To you, that means participating in give and take via the process of negotiation. Fine. But please itemize for us exactly which parts of the Democratic (and American) agenda you’re ready to give away, and which parts you’ll insist on taking.

Thanks for whatever time you put into telling us what John Edwards has already told us.

Sincerely,
LiberalHeart

“Three pizza restaurants within a block of each other

Hillarys Pizza sign:
Best Pizza in the State

Obamas Pizza sign:
Best Pizza in the World

Edwards Pizza sign:
Best Pizza on the Block”

Instead of the sign, maybe look inside the the 3 pizza restaurants:

Hillary’s Pizza:
Similar supplier and ingredients of fast food chain pizza joint other side of town, which was recently shut down by the health department.

Obama’s Pizza:
Best music in town. Great place to take a date. Pizza is ok sometimes. Favorite of the local paper food writer because of the new wood baking oven.

Edwards’ Pizza:
Organic ingredients. Original recipe. Great price. Sometimes the manager turns the light up TOO bright, and it bugs some people’s eyes. Yes, true to it’s sign, the best Pizza in town

I suppose I could write a dreamlist, too, but politics isn’t ever like a mall and will not be. Increments is usually what we work for. AnyDem is two increments above Bush. Edwards is probably three. But in the conventional world, you won’t see Edwards accept #2 again, nor will Richardson accept the UN post again.

I sure wouldn’t want Whitehouse as AG after the way he folded on telecom immunity. In fact, it’d be dumb to appoint almost any Dem Senator to a cabinet position. Geeze, can’t LS strategize better than that?

But we’re putting the cart before the horse. And amid all the critique of Edwards i should note that his post-Iowa speech was the best of his career. Give the guy credit considering all he and Elizabeth have done, endured, put forth and accomplished in the last two years.

Sometimes, more than well-meant advice, encouraging someone to take a weekend off, thanking them for trying and offering a word of encouragement can be the greater tonic. All of these top three operate at near-exhaustion.

Angry? A corporate media frame.

I guess if you’re doing ok $$$ you can take a chance on Obama or Hillary.

Me and 10,000 co-workers got laid off two years ago while executive row got raises and retention bonuses. I went back to school and collected two degrees, and I’m still out of a job.

My interview at the temp agency went well today, and I hope they don’t hold my age against me. I’ve had a few honest folks tell me on the QT it’s an issue at a lot of jobs.

I can’t afford to take a chance. Bill (the best Republican president in my lifetime) Clinton helped get us into this mess with NAFTA and globalization. I don’t need more ‘experience’ like that.

I can’t afford to take a chance. Obama’s a great speaker and a good guy, but he’s wrong. You could sit down and work out a deal with moderate Republicans 20 years ago. The greedheads have driven moderation out of the Republican Party (if you could roll back time, Hillary would make an excellent Rockerfeller Republican), and the ones left compare bipartisanship to date rape.

If you’re doing ok $$$, I’m glad for you. But you may want to consider this before you vote:

http://dir.salon.com/story/tec…..ng_report/

Edwards ‘08.

It’s looking like once again the American public will have to settle for half assed solutions to the many vexing problems facing the nation. The vast majority of Americans have become too conservative for their own good and it will ultimately lead to the downfall of the U.S.

Well, despite the Greenwald article discussing his surge being ignored nationally by the mainstream media, I too am desparately holding out for him to catch on. So far, in order, the media has written off McCain, Huckabee, Obama, Clinton, and now Edwards. Each with the exception of Edwards has made a move. I’d like the think the MSM will bat 1,000.00% here and eventually be wrong about Edwards as well.

I have problems with Obama and major problems with Clinton and the people she surrounds herself with. Though I took joy and was somewhat euphoric when she won New Hampshire and made the MSM look petty and ridiculous that was soon tempered and I was brought back down to earth when a grinning from ear to ear Terry Mac appeared with Andrea Mitchell on my TV. Joy and euphoria was instantly dampered by the reality. The even more odious image of Mark Penn lurking nearby was enough to cleared the palatte of any residual emotional highs. My problems with Obama is this concillitory, reaching out for unity meme his pushing. Our GOP rivals need to be crushed every which way from Sunday. In the general election this would play right into the GOP’s hands and her will be crushed.

[sigh] When will we ever learn that the GOP is holding that football for our forlorn Charlie Brown to come along and kick it. We all know what happens next…

TrumanDem

Truman’s Conscience

That said, Obama’s delivery is fantastic, and whomever they have doing speechwriting for the campaign is very good. Some of the best stuff to come out of a pen since the JFK/Ted Sorensen years.

Of late that author would be John Edwards.

One of the reasons Obama won in Iowa is that the articulated a clear vision of the America that he was working for.

Could you tell me about it, in a nutshell?

I ask because I haven’t got it yet.

You write, “If we can’t bring along Independents and some Republicans into a governing coalition, NOTHING will get done. Strong lefties may not like it, but you have to at least appear to listen to the other sides’ concerns or they won’t support you. Once you have gained their ear, THEN you can convince them on the details. You have to have political capital in order to use it.”

If we have a working majority things CAN get done.

Lefties can listen, we’re good at governing.

Is “appearing to listen” all Barack really intends?

Can you really really convince them on the details? Haven’t the last several decades already refuted that argument?

Edwards has ideas. HRC and Obama have platitudes. I know which approach I prefer.

ditto

I wrote the campaign after his last speech in Iowa, saying that I thought JRE needs to find different ways to present the message. It is much too repetitive, only some of it is delivery. I think he needs to label the issues he’s talking about as social and economic injustice that he intends to address by 1, 2, 3 based on what the voters have been telling he and Elizabeth. The message, while not tired, is being delivered in a tired way.

I agree with you…we have been begging for anger from Democratic politicians, why not enjoy it?
hillary and obama act like there’s nothing to be angry about, and people support THAT?

are we nuts to reject this beautiful family that has modeled a response to twin tragedies?

I believe everyone who didn’t endorse Edwards will rue their decision, and that goes double for the disloyal Ned Lamont.

Jane,

You are so right about the delivery. I’ve heard other people who agree with Edwards on the issues say that they wished he was more inclusive. Some of them felt like he was saying it was “us against them” and did you have to agree with everything he said to be in the “us” column? That framing requires a listener to determine whether they are the “us” or the “them.” What you really want to do is to make it so that the listener feels that they are a part of “we” and are called to take action collectively with others. A better framing would be “we are in this together” and here’s how we can effect change.

I’ve thought about this often. His message and his delivery are discordant. I don’t understand why this wasn’t discovered and corrected earlier in the campaign though. It’s like hearing Beethoven being played on a slightly out of tune piano.

Perhaps the problem is that he’s still the lawyer in the courtroom wherein you have to make the jury angry enough at the other side to return a judgement against them.

Unfortunately, his framing of “us versus them” just doesn’t play well in 2008. Especially after all the divisive politics of Karl Rove and the Bush II years. I do think the electorate wants someone who will be more positive.

Edwards is right on the issues but his framing is wrong for 2008.

You have to be joking. Obama is all delivery and no content. If you actually analyse his speeches, you’ll quickly realise that beneath the emotional words and passion of the delivery, there’s nothing much there.

You need anger. Did you not notice that your country is a disgrace? You’ve been sliding into fascism. You think you can cuddle up to that?

Original quote: One of the reasons Obama won in Iowa is that the articulated a clear vision of the America that he was working for.

Could you tell me about it, in a nutshell?

Haven’t you heard? “Hope, change, and bipartisanship.” You know, Bill Clinton in a post-9/11 world. Lovely thought, huh.

I hate saying this but I will vote for HRC if it came between her and Obama for only one reason: she’s hated. Basically, HRC as a lightning rod for the right coupled with our anger at the right could potentially be a benefit to the progressive movement. Two possibilities:
1. (Most likely) When she sells us out, unlike Obama, the perfect Trojan horse, who is loved and believed by many to be some “progressive” instead of the corporate centrist he is, she won’t get away with it from the generic left; and
2. (This one I’m a little less clear on, so forgive me) Confrontation increases voter turnout so when she inevitably gets attacked by the right and she holds her own against them, rightly casting the GOP as the villain (There’s a far higher chance of her doing it than Obama), it’ll rouse up angry votes and activism from the left, which I believe is much angrier than the right, who want to finally unleash all this frustration we have against not only the GOP but the general state of affairs in our country.

I know what you are saying but I still hearing people complain about how cold Teresa Kerry was. And yes many people are like Tweety they think Hillary is cold, Bill is slick, Thompson is lazy, Bush is fun to have a beer with, Edwards is hair, Obama is only about a good speech. I am voting for Edwards but people are picking up on something. I think it is also his need to connect with the middle class which often includes people who are poor or would be poor if they didn’t have a credit card. I know a guy who has a crap job, lives in a crap house in a crap neighborhood and had to borrow money to bury his mother-in-law. He’s a Republican and thinks he is middle class.

Saw a show recently on PBS about class and how people perceive themselves. The conclusion was that just about everyone — from the very poor to what I would consider the very rich — will say, “Yeah, I’m middle class.” Maybe it’s because most of us can see people who are worse off than we are, and others who are better off — so here we are, in the middle. Not a bad demographic to go after: virtually everyone.

Returning to the pizza restaurant theme others have posted: here’s my take…

Hillary’s Pizza Joint:
A family business that can always be relied on to use the same recipes — so you can be assured that you’ll get the same taste no matter when you stop by. That can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your opinion of that recipe.

Obama’s Pizza Joint:
Wow — the person who wrote the copy for that menu did a great job, and when the owner comes to your table and recites the menu, he does it beautifully. But what does it really mean when he says, “You’re the one who can make it happen — you’ll go out into the kitchen, make the pizza, and if it doesn’t taste good, it’s your fault because in my kitchen everything happens from the bottom up, not the top down. I’m just the guy who recites the menu.” But at least a free side of Hope comes with every pizza.

John’s Pizza Joint:
He advertises exactly what he’s going to put on your pizza and it sounds great — just like what you’ve been craving for years. But it may be too hot for certain people to handle, so there’s a warning on the menu that some may not be allowed to sit down at the table. Oh, and if you show up without any money, don’t fret. John will feed you for free and let you sleep in the back room. And he’ll sit back there listening to your concerns about his pizza so he can adjust the recipe as needed.