Login Here. Jesse L. Jackson Jr., national co-chair for Barack Obama, on Hillary Clinton's emotional moment:
But those tears also have to be analyzed. They have to be looked at very, very carefully in light of Katrina, in light of other things that Mrs. Clinton did not cry for, particularly as we head to South Carolina where 45% of African-Americans who participate in the Democratic contest, and they see real hope in Barack Obama.
. Bowers:
Did Obama's message of conciliatory unity cost him the New Hampshire primary? Sure looks like it. According to exit polls, 30% of Democrats identified themselves as "dissatisfied" with the Bush administration. Obama narrowly won those voters, 39%-38%. However, among the 62% of participants in the Democratic primary who described themselves as "angry" with the Bush administration, Clinton won 39%-34%. And thus, we have Clinton's 2.6% margin of victory almost precisely.
. Zogby:
We expected that Obama would receive the lion's share of independents and drain the Republican primary of these voters. It now appears that, perhaps with a sense that Obama had a lock on the Democratic side, independents felt free to vote on the Republican side and reward their hero, John McCain.
. Emptywheel:
I think Romney, McCain, and Huck are all viable in MI; it'll be the first state (and the only one before Florida) where it'll be a three-way race among all these candidates "who can't win." But it's going to be a very weird vote, with one week, no polling, high costs, and the whole cross-over thing, to confuse the issue. I suspect McCain will win, but I also suspect this primary may end up stumping the pundits even more than Hillary's win last night did, even as it takes on unexpected importance.
It is important to remember that Clinton remains very popular with partisan Democrats, and Obama has been at odds with liberal bloggers, who can cause problems for candidates both with their harsh writing and calls to action to their readers. It will be trench warfare in the weeks ahead.
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Rachel’s on.
Should be good.
If I had teh power, Dodd or Edwards would have swept both primaries and would be heading out in triumph for the next round.
I must not judge a candidate by his or her supporters.
I’d like to comment, but I need to go practice my harsh writing.
please practice. We need you to do better and harsher!
What really happened at the Iran Naval Battle:
http://zenhuber.blogspot.com/
Ding ding ding!
You can if you watch this.
Just off the phone with a friend who watched MSNBC yesterday before voting and after watching the Tweety and Delay show of Hillary and Bill bashing was so furious that he got into his car and voted for Sen. Clinton.
My friend who was leaning towards Kucinich and Edwards.
He’s a male carpenter in his 40’s.
-G
Rachel talking about how the real shocker yesterday was that a former gov. of MA lost in NH.
Willard wasn’t really the gov. of MA. He was an empty suit with the careful coif. A doppelganger. Don’t know where his real body hung out for 4 years.
I am proud to be a licensed harshitect.
Okay, I must not judge a candidate by his or her supporters except for Ron Paul.
Hello Jane - the longer this process goes on the more the candidates self-reveal.
Lil ole me has more power than I ever thought I had. My, my. Guess I may as well use it to the fullest. Gee. I would have remained low key but if I get accused of being powerful and blamed for open warfare, I may as well live up to my reputation.
Is Jackson saying if Obama doesn’t win every time the people who won cheated? That’s my logical conclusion but I have peculiar logic. My nine year old temper tantrum granddaughter jumps up and down when she loses, too.
Obama does have terrific talent as a motivational speaker.
Good one.
Here we have a confluence of campaign dynamics though surrogates of both sides playing the race card and the misogyny card. Shaheen, Kerrey, Jackson, Obama’s condescending asshole comment, “You’re likable enough!” On and on.
I sure hope there’s some big fucking unity thing happening at the end of this when all is said and done. It’s going to be ugly on our side even before we get to the Republicans.
And if Lux is right and Edwards ends up kingmaker, he gets to pick between the first woman president or the first African American president possibly. Not a position I’d envy. If he makes a deal and “wins” something, even then, on some level, he might lose, or more to the point, we all lose.
Sigh. I’ve seldom been one to shy from conflict in my adult life, to a fault, but I sure hope these nuclear social crosscurrents lead to progress, and leadership emerges from all concerned.
Everyone seems to want to turn this into a two horse race already, but the longer there are more choices, the more informed the voters are.
As we already know that anyone of the Dems is a better choice and by the race being ‘hard to call’ means more sunlight on issues and previous voting records etc…It’s all good..
A little OT, but still related..
A Conversation With Dennis Kucinich
This interview, originally published by The Philadelphia Inquirer, was conducted Dec. 19 in the Washington office of the Ohio Democrat.
http://www.truthdig.com/interv....._kucinich/
The military knows that they have a pack of rubes that will dance like organ grinding monkey’s at the snap of a finger.
We’ll have a Gulf of Tonkin incident before long.
-G
I am still catching up with MSNBc’s live New Hamphire coverage on Tivo. I just can’t watch any other channel. Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow kept me from screaming at that asshole Joe Scarobourogh. Tom Brokaw telling Tweety to stop trying to tell the voters what to think and let them have their say was just priceless. Nearly everyone is sick of Cheney/Bush Inc, and there are just as many of us who are sick of wealthy, spoiled, white male pundits telling us what to think.
I’m just hoping that they feel pushed leftward. I still don’t trust either Hill or Barak when it comes to cozying up to the corpos. We need to keep up the pressure on that score.
How much uglier could it possibly be than watching any of the rethugs doing their thing?
Well, we’ve heard from all of the so called experts but not from the most important source of information - The Super 8 Ball.
There’s already bad blood, you can see it.
What happens when it’s all said and done is going to be interesting but there will still be a whole lot of players moving around at that same time. It might be a while before we see what really comes of it.
I agree, I’m glad the race didn’t get decided last night if for no other reason than people will still stay tuned and listen to the Democrats talk about their issues and get the message out.
I do worry, like Pach, that if things get too negative and ad hominim that at the end we’re going to have a real tough time bringing people together in any kind of unified way going into the general, and we simply can’t endure more Republican rule. The numbers say we don’t have to, and the worst thing that could happen is that we tear ourselves apart and let that happen.
Bush’s Heal the Middle East Tour has opened to rave reviews:
“Since America began to be involved in the Middle East … the suffering of Muslim and non-Muslim nations has gone from bad to worse.” — Radical Iraqi Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr.
-G
Jesse Jackson Jr is — I can’t think of a word bad enough for him.
Because what he has done has been to put Obama in a very tough spot, is holding him hostage so to speak. Obama needs the Rainbow Coalition to get out the African American vote in So Carolina and in urban areas in Michigan and other Super Tuesday states. Every vote counts. So he can’t very well diss Jesse Jr now, even though if he doesn’t, he has to live with the fact that if he lets this kind of trash talk (she was crying about her hair???? What a lying shithead.) go without distancing himself, he WILL loose a lot of women voters, as well as a bunch of African American ones. Like my neighbor who is actually from New Orleans and is ripshit at Jesse Jr’s “spin.”
I know someone who really loves Ron Paul.
Yeah, he’s a 30-ish male and he’s just not into paying taxes for other people’s health care or roads or anything. I feel sorry for him, but I do not get him at all.
Yeah, and the fact that they aren’t is really bumming me out.
Let’s not forget that Reagan chose Poppy Bush after all their bad blood.
Thus beginning the reign of the Connecticut Caligula’s.
-G
I found this analysis at Kos today, showing, as it claims, that we could be headed toward a brokered convention, in which Edwards would, at minimum, hold the delegates necessary for heavily influencing the platform.
Here is the analysis from Chez Cracker
I think Clinton won because of Lazio effect
Mark Penn is right. Women will make the difference
The media and her opponents attacked her for playing the gender
card while simultaneously playing the race card for the historic moment of the first black president.
She needs to stay on message to women.
Women are the largest voting block.
The mistake was being pushed around and responding.
The effort to reach out to women voters in NH was successful
OT - But not really because while the carnival performers and carnival goers are sizing up each other’s circle and pouring ground glass in each other’s shoes, The War College has already made plans for day one of his/her administration. The deed is done.
Erstwhile, Matthews is entertaining the masses and the War Room is busy, busy, busy. It doesn’t matter who is elected because they already signed on to a hundred year war which McCain only borrowed to look like his ear to the ground gives him an edge.
Yesterday’s conference at the Heritage Foundation on long term strategy in Irag is a plan already going forward. It’s amazing what men in the War College can devise from their ivory tower. Check out C-SPAN Tuesday, January 8. It will hold your attention.
The dye is cast and the person in the oval office will be a figurehead with little impact.
I just can’t watch any other channel. Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow kept me from screaming at that asshole Joe Scarobourogh.
IMHO, you should never let anyone or anything stop you from screaming at JoeScar.
The problem with all the shit being thrown at Hillary is that it doesn’t make her a better candidate.
My family in Michigan just e-mailed and said that since the Dem slate is not complete, they’re going to vote for Romney (they can’t stomach pulling the lever for Huckabee) and since Rudy is a non-entity right now, he’s out of consideration, too.
I envy them the fun! WE moved to Arizona too soon, damnit!
If there is a brokered convention and Edwards has 20% of the votes how does it work. Does he get to decide where those votes go or do the other candidates have to make their case and woo them?
I had to stop watching the Sunday shows when my daughter was a baby. I thought I could stop cursing at the screen and just make rude gestures, but then she used one of the (very) rude gestures on her babysitter when he said she had to wait for a bottle.
I think that secretly Barak has the hots for Hillary. Nothing like a feisty older woman;))
It’s a play for the AA vote in S.C. (and elsewhere). Probably a pretty safe play as well. I don’t see how it will cost him any votes in the AA community.
Bad blood? I remember what Edwards and Kucinich did to Howard Dean. Howard Dean is the one person who ever asked me (well you know what I mean) to get off the couch and do something. And Dean was politically killed in Iowa by his “friends.” And I still support Edwards now, and I voted for kerry. So bad blood has a way of dissipating when the consequences of not voting for someone, anyone, other than republican becomes the end game.
We can all hope for this anyway.
It’s twue, it’s twue.
Borat.
Re; the ‘Iranian incident’ on Monday, there appears to be something going on.
There was a short blurb during the reporting on the ‘incident’, about a missing sailor and then either Mon or Tues two of our planes ‘collided’ in the same area.
Also apparently Israel has decided that flying Bush around puts him at risk from Palestinian/Hamas/boogymen bottle rockets, so Bush will be driving around instead.
It’s going to be an interesting week…
Rachel said she would be on the end of Olberman and beginning of Dan Abrams—different studios and no breaks between them. Running shoes time.
I’m not positive about the rules but I think pledged delegates are through the first vote. After that, it becomes an open convention and multiple ballots with the back room deal making taking over.
Perhaps not, but at least some folks are catching on to the fact that the Village’s smear tactics don’t make anyone a bad or worse candidate. At least, I hope that’s part of the message. IOW, I hope MSM has gone just a bit too far with the ridiculous personal attacks and stupid horserace coverage and some folks are starting to call BS and think for themselves. It’s about time Tweety et al started paying a price for their “diarrhea of the mouth.”
FunnyDiva
People Have The Power
I’m sickened by this Jackson video. It’s full of blatant lies and distortions. Its stupidity alarms me. I was in the Obama camp, but now I really don’t know.
It’s not just Jesse Jackson Jr. On Tweety, one of Obama’s supporters Dyson? implied very strongly that racism played a role in his loss in NH. Pat friggin Buchanan got het up and said “don’t diminish her victory” or some such. Tweety called him Alan Alda. The point is, it seems to me a lot of Obama’s supporters are calling people racist if they don’t vote for him.
Obama has pissed me off enough with his Elmer Gantry act-if the racism card keeps getting played by his supporters and he doesn’t say anything, I’ll have to assume he approves of this manipulative tactic.
Boy, that’s way over my head. But either way, supporting Edwards could have positive policy influence, even if he’s not the nominee.
I’m basing that on what I read today. (It’s true I’m a sucker for graphs. And the loud, sucking sounds that go with them.)
More input on this would be appreciated.
I don’t think I really like that. That means that we wouldn’t necessarily pick our candidate. The party PoohBahs whould get to. Hmmm.
Wait a minute—the Politico thinks Hillary Clinton is popular amongst the netroots? Are they insane? They just made that up!!!
OK, here’s this to ponder, from Progressive Punch, listed in descending order by their Progressive Score:
Senator Clinton 91.29 16/100
Senator Obama 88.76 24/100
Rep. Kucinich 87.42 121/432
Senator Dodd 86.57 28/100
Senator Biden 84.26 31/100
Ha! You didn’t know that both Obama and Clinton were more progressive than Kooch? Of course, the mix of House data is different from Senate issues, but I think these ratings will surprise many.
The big problem with Clinton’s score, to me, is in the categories of
War & Peace (17 subcategories) 80.30 39/100(T), and
Human Rights & Civil Liberties (9 subcategories) 82.22 30/99(T)
Those two scores really bug me.
Bob in HI
OT
Judge won’t press on CIA tapes‘ destruction. Not good.
We want a new Democratic president who is interested in diplomacy, rather than war, education, health care, justice, fairness, righting the economy, “real” campaign finance reform, the well being of the planet and other issues. We trust Clinton and Obama equally on tackling these issues. Obama and HRC. These two are about as interesting as a wet towel. Hillary and Obama? Oh hummmm.
They make up 99.9% of the crap they publish. So what else is new?
You don’t suppose the Israelis set shrub up. They’ve done this before to their own. Oops. Watch your “friends” shrub. You never know what they have in mind for you. I think a car is an open invitation.
Those Citigroup and JP Morgan CEO’s have some of the pens Bill Clinton used to sign NAFTA and the like handing up in the hallways to their office (in their little shrines to themselves). Literally.
Um. The people talking about the “Bradley Effect” aren’t just Obama’s supporters. Or are they secretly Obama’s supporters?
Yep. And that’s one of the major reasons a “national primary day” (among other bad ideas) wouldn’t really work. Too many ways for the back room deal makers to muck things up
My Sweetie, Rachel was just asking for some popcorn… Citing the Culinary Union in Vegas and SEIU just endorsed Obama, not, Clinton…
Well, you know, Hillary is mean and so are we.
“Obama has pissed me off enough with his Elmer Gantry act-if the racism card keeps getting played by his supporters and he doesn’t say anything, I’ll have to assume he approves of this manipulative tactic.”
Are you holding the HRC campaign to the same standard? I assume so. According I expect that you want her to say something about the Gloria Steinem op-ed. Is that correct?
Welcome to the system. Direct all complaints to Howard Dean.
Congratulations to ex-DOJster Judge Henry Kennedy who refuses to grow a pair and is allowing Mukasey to obfuscate along with CIA who today said that he would leave the investigation to Unitary Executive DOJ.
Judge Kennedy’s Order
And the beat goes on. Congress and the Judiciary roll over and play wussey for Bushy, as DOJ continues to run interference like a Mafia Consigliere. Mukasey and the judges (both trial and appealate) in the D.C. Circuit could have played Silvio Dante on the Sopranos.
It might have been at Kos but somewhere I read that one result could be Edwards as the King or Queen maker.
So does he throw his support to Senator Clinton for the first female major party candidate.
Or does he throw his support to Senator Obama for the first African-American major party candidate.
Which group gets to cry foul and call Edwards a sell out?
A caller just asked Rachel about dissing Tweety… ;-)
Hillary and Obama. Time outs for both of you. And you will write five hundred sentences saying, “I will campaign on the issues”. And no recesses for a week.
Pollsters and pundits struggled to come up with reasons including the Bradley Effect. But that was not an accurate explanation of what happened. On the Monday before the election a story of corruption broke out about Dinkins. It had not been the first. The Marist Poll surveyed voters through election eve. The results found in the midst of such intense media pounding about the corruption scandal many voters had, in fact, become disillusioned with Dinkins. His lead had collapsed in our Marist Poll from 13 percentage points on Sunday to barely 2 percentage points by Monday night. This matched the eventual election result.
Here in New Hampshire, for the most part, Obama’s support was not overstated in the polls. But the polls missed the magnitude of the support for Clinton. Although the pollsters in New Hampshire cannot have Monday night back, we plan to re-contact in the next few days the voters we spoke with over the weekend to glean whatever additional insights we can.
http://www.maristpoll.marist.edu/
Romney pulls ads from SC and FL.
Awwwww. /snark
FunnyD
OTJudge won’t press on CIA tapes‘ destruction. Not good.
Lovely. Judge orders production of any evidence of illegal activity at Gitmo.
Government doesn’t produce. Government gets busted.
Government argues “hey Judge, we didn’t engage in any of that illegal activity at Gitmo. We did it at way more illegal black sites!”
Judge says “oh, that’s different then. No problem.”
I hate fucking lawyers.
Me, an Edwards supporter… 8-(
FYI to anyone who wants to listen to Rachel’s show. iTunes under radio then talk has Air America as one of the channels. You can also stream through their web site, but it never worked as well for me.
Ummm… Aren’t ya one…? ;-)
I’m not giving up on Edwards just yet, but if he does have the chance to play king/queenmaker I hope he trades it for a place on the US Supreme Court.
Thanks for the link which I’ve bookmarked. Looks like a another good source of information, along with Col. Pat Lang’s website.
and all 3 of the dem front runners are too.
Oh well.
Molly Ivins once said something similar about how Ann Richards became governor of Texas; she said “Bubba” may be hateful, spiteful, racist, homophobic, and barely able to read, but he does not take kindly to those who insult a lady. That may very well have put Senator Clinton over the top.
What about attorney general?
How True…! *g*
I sent him a c-note today. He needs money to keep on going. And don’t do it through Act Blue—the stoopid FEC won’t match those. Go directly to his web site
I hate fucking lawyers.
Ummm… Aren’t ya one…? ;-)
Oh.
Yeah.
Ummm, I hate fucking government lawyers.
There.
I live near enough to Madison (commune with satan), WI, to get one of the only F.M. stations to carry her show.
Rachel in hi-fi, can’t be beat!
You should hear a Malloy rant in crystal clarity!
Hey! Brokered convention question on Rachel.
I first real bit if negativity I noticed on the Dem side was the Hillary’s insults after Iowa, and then Bill’s very strange diatribe about Obama a few days ago.
Before that, it seemed like just the usual making cases where each candidate is difficult. From what I’ve seen, the Clintons were the first to show actual dislike for another Dem.
Doesn’t seem fair to lump Obama into this IMHO.
(I did notice that comment during the debate from Obama, but personally took that as one of those moments where you try to be funny, but end up saying something insulting and then thinking, D’oh! It didn’t seem motivated by hate like especially Bill’s rant against Obama, when he hwas asked about Mark Penn.)
Hillary, Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. Now there’s a mighty quartet. Obama vs. Hillary. I can’t take it. The suspense is killing me.
Hmmm… How about Federalist Society, Government Lawyers…? ;-)
KGC @ 79: AG = not bad, but he would have a good 25 years on the Court. Just once I’d like an appointment to the High Court to be a lawyer who actually had real people with real problems as clients.
You mean the same people in the media who anointed Obama are talking about the Bradley Effect. They are “effectively” saying that all those women who went for Clinton lied to the pollsters because they are secret racists. That pisses me off, sorry, as a woman and a Democratic voter.
I’m for Edwards, so don’t expect me to hold Hillary to any kind of standard unless she starts calling us all stupid or some such for not voting for her. But the fact is, I haven’t read Steinam’s op ed, you’ll have to fill me in.
speaking of f*cking government lawyers, the Indiana voter ID law was before the Supremes today and it sounds like yet another rigging by the rethugs.
I’ll be damned if that court is going to decide another election—but they are trying hard to do just that.
And the Infant in Charge is in the Middle East screaming about Iran.
I was the supreme court appointements to all be 36yo in great health with parents who lived to be a hundred.
Hmmm… How about Federalist Society, Government Lawyers…? ;-)
Now you’re just tryin’ to get me going, aren’t ya?
Is there an emoticon for steam coming out of my ears?
{^^^^}? *g*
I think it has only been in the last few decades that even being a lawyer was seen as prerequisite for the Supreme Court. I have to say I am vastly unimpressed by the current crop of lawyers on the Supreme Court. They are blatantly ideological and take far fewer cases than they did in the past.
I have never been more revulsed with an American president.
As I recall this 12 year old was ridiculing Bill Clinton for his ‘desperation’ in trying to solve the Arab/Israeli issue.
-G
Does this logically mean that any last minute votes for Clinton came not from Obama supporters (as his results pretty much matched the polling) but from Edwards supporters?
oh Indiana - sigh. Trying so hard to prove it’s a Southern state. The Supremes might have another case from here one of these days. Today the first arrest warrants for persons who skipped *jury duty* were issued:
http://www.indystar.com/apps/p.....8301090009
Yeah, that’ll pass constitutional muster.
Bone-fucking-heads…
How about.
>{^ ^}< </p>
(Hair challenged)
I just haven’t come across many wise lawyers. Wise lawyer seems to be an oxymoron. When you have an ex who is a lawyer you become disenchanted with the mystique fast.
works for me. heh.
hair-challenged here too. No heh.
It looks like that…it will be interesting to see what Marist finds out when they poll again.
Better.
>{^_^}< </p>
Ahem.
It looks like Sen. McCain is planning on governing by using the Burma, Khaddaffy, Pinochet model of leadership.
There is only one man who should decide when to withdraw from Iraq and that is (General) David Petraeus,” the Arizona Senator said.
Dave Petraeus, Dave Petraeus.
-G
Sounds like military rule to me.
News from Iraq: Nine Americans killed yesterday and today. The military didn’t bother to mention the wounded nor civilians killed and wounded.
Does McCain have a plan to keep Petraeus alive for 100 years?
yeah, well, civilian control of the military is so 1787.
Michael Eric Dyson just called all the women in New Hampshire racists
Not meant personally. I’m sure you’re a sweetheart. Well, that may be pushing it;D
To be honest I am already exhausted with NH. It is another small state with few delegates whose importance is consistently overrated and overblown. Can’t we choose our candidates in a more intelligent fashion? Something like a paintball tournament maybe.