Every town has a village idiot or two, but this is a viral internet trend that needs to go away. Via AP:
Hillary Rodham Clinton’s campaign stop was interrupted Monday when two men stood in the crowd and began screaming, "Iron my shirt!" during one of her final appearances before the New Hampshire primary….
At least they left off the usual "bitch" ending, I suppose — their mommas must be so proud. If I were Sen. Clinton, I would take an ironing board and an iron to every damn appearance today. With a large lettered sign that says:
LESSONS AVAILABLE: CALL 1-800-BITE-ME
But then, I’m not running for President with a giggling pack of press scrutinizing me, including my cleavage. As Gloria Steinem points out in today’s NYTimes, old stereotypes still abound.
Sen. Hillary Clinton is a candidate for President of the United States. Show her some respect. Whether you support her or not is irrelevant. Treat her with disrespect simply because she is female, then you are treating every woman, everywhere, with disrespect. And we are not putting up with that shit.
Try to demean a woman in public like that again? Even if it’s just a "prank" in your addled mind? You are likely to end up with a Jimmy Choo Ramona Patent Bag somewhere supremely uncomfortable. Unless you were raised by rabid vermin, there is no excuse for this idiocy.
The misogynistic crap cannot be allowed to pass without pushback. Every female candidate has been living under the unreal standard from the Pat Schroeder cryfest for years since it happened. There wasn’t any pushback then — and every woman in politics has avoided being painted with that unreasonable brush ever since.
I do not care which person is your candidate. I don’t care what you think of Hillary Clinton as a potential president. What is being done in the press is akin to a pack of rabid 7th graders trying to haze the nerdy girl in school simply because they can. It has nothing to do with her qualifications — it has to do with gender, and these lemming pundits think that it’s perfectly acceptable because everyone is doing it, including women like Andrea Mitchell and Anne Kornblut.
When they finish with Sen. Clinton, they will turn on Sen. Obama. Because they’ve already done their number on the "coiffed" Sen. Edwards. So it’s on to the next target, isn’t it? We would never, ever let them get away with pulling this shit based on Obama’s race, would we? We shouldn’t, because it’s disgusting. Gender is no different as a reason for heightened scrutiny. Right-wing race baiting on immigration and "Barack Hussein Obama" has been bad enough, but this herd mentality from the media on Clinton’s gender is the absolute last straw for me.
We constantly talk about the need to broaden participation, to pull in more women voters — single moms, soccer moms, etc. If we think that we can do that by ignoring this crap, think again. We won’t be recruiting good candidates for office who are women if we allow this to stand — who in their right mind would subject themselves to this level of bullshit?
You debate issues, not gender. Period. More from the NYDailyNews and the NYTimes has a photo of one of the signs.
(H/T to Jeralyn and twolf1.)
Related posts:
- Late Night: Sorry, Lady, But Your Gender Is a Pre-Existing Condition
- Republicans: Gender, Ethnicity and Empathy Shouldn’t Matter for Judges, Unless They’re Conservatives
- Sunday Late Night: Iron Lady Feared One Germany
- What Have We Done? Single Mothers Among New Homeless Vets
- Late Night: Hatin’ on Hillary – Get Over It Already.
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Christy!
Let her iron their shirts with them still in them.
Here’s a clip of JRE being asked about it this morning.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/063061.php
#1 Yay! I informed the downstairs guests that the party has moved upstairs. Now to read the post!
Morning, Ann — how are things in AZ?
Idiots.
How big an asshole does one have to be to have done that? Want to bet they’re not married?
Um, I don’t think so. Humans are pack animals that are led by alpha males. Not saying I like it, just draging reality into the mix. The study is King of the Mountain by Arnold Ludwig.
Gender bashing will backfire. Good way to get the women to vote.
Here’s a video of the incident: Heckler at Hillary Clinton event
This whole sordid affair has me pulling for HRC now. That’s how sick it is. (I would dearly love to be able to vote for her, but I hate the way she has so carefully positioned herself in the middle.)
“Debate issues, not gender”
I couldn’t agree more. I dumped on her tears because I thought they were fake, just a tactical move. I still do. Her handlers blew that one.
Boxturtle (She should have looked at the laundry guys and said “I taught my kid to do laundry, I can probably teach you too”
The IRON-y of the alpha male myth is that in animals the pack is usually led by an alpha female.
Women didn’t get the vote until 1920 — and then, not Native American women. Not even 100 years.
It’s hard for me to believe as a woman under 50 that I have been alive nearly half the time women have been allowed to vote in this country. It’s way past time to kick butt and take names.
I’d bet neither of those fools has ever ironed a shirt or run a load of laundry without Mama standing next to them telling them what to do. If they had to do it themselves every week (along with washing the dishes, buyign the groceries, and cleaning the house), they’d have a lot more respect for women.
Link?
Here’s CNN’s
political punditresident dickhead “debating the issues.”http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..ton-voice/
I saw the clip and thought it was very real. It was emotive, but it wasn’t crying. In fact I thought she was being more real than I’d ever seen her.
Christy:
Typo in second line of 5th para: …is irrelevant.
Ack, something just scrambled my comment outa nowhere…anyway, as I was saying….
Right on, Christy. Some Boston radio jerk on Imus this morning was pushing anti-Hillary crap in a similar offensive manner. Imus, you’re on notice with me.
This is the media/establishment cocktail wienie circuit pushing this spin, and inciting the id-jits…much like Hannity and O-Lielly have been inciting their id-jits and the pitchforks are now comin’ at ‘em.
My Mr. Sunshine has a take I agree with: it’s not that they’re all clustering incestuously together eatin’ the cocktail wienies, it’s that they are the cocktail wienies.
By far would have been the best response for her. Maybe end it with, but I’m not sure you two are up for it…
That’s a bet you shouldn’t make. Their wives are probaly at home, ironing … Ironic, huh?
Thank you Christy. I just posted a comment in the last thread on the old female bashing that Jacob Bronowski points out in The Ascent of Man. In his lectures he spoke frankly about crushing the female over and over every time she rises and competes with the male for dominance.
There is still a double standard for what is allowed for women compared to what is allowed for men. It’s like telling a woman Crying! There’s no crying in politics! Men can do it and it shows sensitivity but women can’t.
I disagree with Hillary on issues but I refuse to female bash under the guise of disagreeing with her political positions. Karl Rove must be giggling uncontrollably at the Hillary mockery for getting a little emotional.
I’ll bet she is worn out, disappointed, hurt from getting kicked in the face over and over. OK. So the woman is down. Perfect. Let’s keep kicking her.
For me to join the mob frenzy on Hillary bashing would be turning on every other woman, myself included. This isn’t policy disagreements. This is age old female bashing.
She is not my choice of candidate based on her record and current positions. Criticism I’ll keep separate from female bashing. Why do I want to do that to myself? Yep, Jacob Bronowski said it clearly in The Ascent of Man. No way will the male allow females to rise. Criticism is totally different from beating up the person.
As Daffy would have said to Bugs “You’re dessspicable!” Well, those creeps were. Now I’m all for free speech, but heckling is not only impolite, it’s g-d’ out of place at a political rally; but at least it shows you for what a “moran” (sic) you are.
I’m glad these two boneheads were escorted out. And you can betcha had it been the other way around — hecklers like that at a Rethuglican event — there would have been way more serious consequences.
Speaking strictly figuratively, “Tase ‘em, Sis!”
Amen (and while I’m using that term), it seems as if the misogyny inherent in some of the fundamental religions gives people “license” for this behavior. That, and the celebration of competition and humiliation we see on television.
After the gains of the sixties and seventies, sexism seemed to be receding. Then came the unfortunate convergence of the Paris/Brit young women and the “women shall submit” memes.
As the mother of a 29 yr. old daughter, this is infuriating. I have never encountered the overt comments, the attempts to marginalize my daughter has seen.
These people probably think the ironing board is clever — kind of like “Jackass” meets “West Wing”.
Christy,
Another small typo. Gloria Steinem
Sorry, no particular link. It was in my gender studies classes back in the early 90’s.
Want to bet they’ve never seen Stir of Echoes? Or perhaps seen it one too many times & think the assholes who kill the nerdy girl are somehow their heroic archetypes?
Yeah, I did comment from work for once. NH primary is distracting me from the mountain of emails- requests for info. etc… Back to the salt mines. Read you all later.
Insecure little twits, aren’t they?
it’s a reality that exists not because we’re pack animals – it’s a culture construct that continues to exist because we permit it to. and the fact is that no
womanperson can change it on their own. so those of us who have been the only woman in a male dominated field have had to learn to live with it as best we could.but there’s a reason it’s not tolerated in work environments with more than a couple of women in positions of power – and that’s because we can stop it when we work together.
let’s work together right now to stop this shit where we can.
Christy:
Another one; first line of 7th para: …misogynistic crap…
If one wants to see the science of change in society, to witness the reality of how America has transitioned through time, living and working in New York, would very well serve one to an insight of the social change. By all means, adding to the blend in spirit of change, to recognize the results of change.
The Clinton’s, Hillary was given the opportunity and recognizes this very character of America. She expressed it in a deeply and in an emotionally way during one of her rally’s. To be sure one must understand New York is one of the first demographics to consider the most monument change history has ever made. After just quickly reading over some of the work done by Madison and Hamilton, it easy to see the huge transition placed on the people of New York at the time when the Constitution was being decide on.
Out of Hamilton’s essay one paragraph in the Federalist Papers introduction says it all.
“It has been frequently remarked that it seems to have been reserved to the people of this country, by their conduct and example, to decide the important question, whether societies of men are really capable or not of establishing good government from reflection and choice, or whether they are forever destined to depend for their political constitutions on accident and force”.
Very powerful ideals that we all should be great full for, and thank God that so far it still works for all Americans, and they realize it in a Pease full way. The greed of the brokers in power has undone themselves. The electorate of the Democratic Party is sweeping the country hopefully will be realized all the way to a change of leadership in the Whitehouse.
Let us pray that Obama has the skill and leadership not to fail the America public. For if Obama does, at least Hillary would be a second chance with John Edwards along. After reflection wouldn’t it be an interesting turn of events if Hillary was appointed Attorney General by President Obama. Still being able to turn the Titanic of misguided corruption while digging deep into putrid cesspool tangled legal booby traps to serve greed.
Something Hillary should consider deeply so Obama can have his opportunity for this time to practice change and feel the heat. But if Obama fails be ready to step in, and continue the charge. For as John Edwards said they will never give up. Anyway you look at it Republicans are toast.
Re:
You sure they have mothers? They looked like bad cloning accidents to me.
Christy, THANKYOU! The misogynism of the past couple of days has been like a frickin’ bait ball frenzy. I really thought we as a nation had evolved but she is really breaking new ground in the minds of many and that has just unglued them. DailyKos is the worst with Obamaphiles not even bothering to disguise their sheer hatred and hooliganism.
Anyway, I thought I’d share one of my diaries from a couple of months ago. Let’s hope that when some women get into that voting booth today, they decide to teach the guys a lesson: The Sisterhood of the Travelling Pantsuit
i think christy might have been a wee bit pissed off while writing this post? *g*
Oh, and if you take your laundry out of the dryer before it’s completely dry and hang it up, you’ll never have to iron again!
Things here are fine. Bright sunny day (as usual) although the ground is still wet from yesterday’s rain.
Christy, I agree that gender bias shouldn’t be allowed to stand with impunity, but I think you may have missed a comment that Hillary made that may have brought about the response about ironing.
I was watching morning Joe, and he and Mika did an interiew with Hillary. I can’t remember the question, something about Bill Clinton and whether he’s an asset, I think, but her response included a comment that was something like, “Yeah, but he doesn’t ask you to iron his shirts!” It was kinda cute and funny and playful the way it came up. So this remark may not be as uncalled for or as mean spirited as it initially appears when taken out of context. By the way, Joe was very nice to Hillary, and he made a point of bringing up the fact that she HUGGED CHRIS MATTHEWS. That was kinda funny too, since it basically acknowledged that Matthews has given her a hard time on his show, although I’m sure he doesn’t think so.
Why not just hold up a sign that says, “Shut up and show us your tits!”?
Mr. ReddHedd and I were talking about the Huckabee connections to Dominionist ministers who think a woman ought to have to ask permission from her husband to be allowed to work. And he started laughing about how that would work in our family…because it would go something like “Excuse me, honey? Well, you can kiss my girlie ass…”
I want my daughter to grow up in a better, more enlightened world. Alas, some days we seem to be going backward. But I’ll be damned if someone else gets to define for her — or any other woman — who they can or cannot be, what they can or cannot dream, solely on the fact that they are women.
Well, some beings are just more evolved and can handle a diverse presentation of candidates in terms of gender, race, cultural heritage…
She should coming up with plenty of one liners that relate to “pressing matters” for the United States. Turn such crowd stupidity to her favor.
I agree with most of what Christy said but how is it that we can disrespect the shit out of the actual president but we are some how supposed to automatically respect a candidate? Do we “respect’ the republican candidates? I sure as hell don’t.
I liked Gloria Steinam’s op ed this morning, except for the line that she supported HRC over BHO because, among other things, HRC had no masculinity to prove…unfortunately, HRC seems hell bent on proving it, or something like it. (iraq vote, her rationalization of same, Kyl-Lieberman etc.
From baking cookies to ironing shirts [which is not so easy by the way — done that]. She is female first and a professional second. This brings us all down.
I’ve seen the clip as well. I think it was a very well executed act. Credit where credit is due, Hillary’s been a politician under fire for decades and an act that good is well within her abilities.
If I’m wrong, I apologize to her. If I’m right, I think it says more about her handlers than it does about her. I think if she existed without handlers for a month, we’d all get to know her better. And she might win some support she doesn’t currently have.
Boxturtle (Or she might make everybody hate her. Better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you’re not)
something else… i’ll need some time to think this one through, but want to comment on part of the post now, while the conversation is happening.
this problem is not that senator clinton is being disrespected – it’s why she’s being disrespected.
disrespect her for being a lying politician? fine. (just like the betrayus ad was ok)
disrespect her for her poltitics? fine.
but, do not fucking disrespect her for being a woman. because when that happens, women everywhere are being disrespected. and i take that personally.
i think it’s important to draw that distinction – because we disrespect politicians all the time – but it’s out of bounds to disrespect someone because they are a woman (or black, or gay, or…)
Agree 100 percent with this post. As a prime candidate for the most important office our country possesses, Mrs. Clinton deserves complete respect. I think as this story gets out, she will get a rebound.
As to the press doing something similar to Obama, I think he has them checkmated by his Kennedy-type aura, which if it persists, is going to change how things work. Somehow the press became gatekeepers for the Presidency. I think it dates to the 1988 election, when they destroyed Dukakis. The rethugs were quick to seize the opportunity, and have managed them masterfully. I think Obama goes over their heads. That’s the power of rhetoric. Edwards has it, too, but the press got to him on the haircut. Obama stayed under the radar. He’s a tough target, and he seems to know that the worse he treats the press, the more they will suck up to him.
I don’t know about you, but I respect most people, until or unless they do something to lose my respect, like this entire administration and most of the Republican party. And if they lose my respect, I have no problem showing my disdain for them.
As the Tide turns, the Bold Clinton gives it her All. Even after being Wisked away to the MSM’s spin cycle, she is struggling to Gain that elusive Bounce in the polls. Supporters Cheer her on in her quest to achieve the ultimate Bounty and Snuggle up, once again, in the Lincoln bedroom.
BTW, my husband learned to iron his shirts from Martha Stewart — I sure has hell couldn’t teach him.
raven: i think you make a good point. it’s not that she’s being disrespected – it’s that she’s being disrespected for being a woman. see my 45 for more.
I think a distinction should be made between (1) attacking her for faking her tears and (2) attacking her for crying because she’s a woman.
He got caught out
he night as well asked her to iron something
I really, really wish that HRC had had better advice in the senate and in the campaign. I would like nothing better than to see her kick ass and take names once she was inaugurated. My sense has always been that this was not the year for her to run, that we needed some time between Bill’s term in office and the total Republican Meltdown (which is occurring) before she could safely run and do good work as president and not have to keep swiping at flying monkeys.
Because it needs to be said again.
good one Christy. wait until it really hits the fan with lapel pins with flags on them. Where can Hillary keep hers that won’t give snoozecasters the vapors.
I can iron shirts. Learned how when I was very young (they started me with handkerchiefs). But I also recognize that it takes me a bit of time and I can’t do it as well as the pros which is why I get my cotton shirts laundered.
Just another one of those little skills the folks made sure I knew how to do so that I could care for myself.
Kind of a soap opera, don’t you think?
As you say, Christy, it’s important for all of us to be alert to criticisms that are overtly sexist against women. At the same time, I was enormously disappointed in the liberal blogosphere yesterday by the viral spread of a story that John Edwards had “pounced” on the story and “offered little sympathy.” That was a classic case of being suckered in by descriptions used by a journalist to create some sensationalism.
Aren’t we the ones who are supposed to be doing a better job of analysing our pathetic excuse for media these days? This was yellow journalism at its most obvious, and yet so many people in the blogosphere raced to attack John Edwards–totally unfairly, IMO, for a man whose record and positions on women’s issues is the best I’ve ever seen for a presidential candidate–in order to be seen as defending the equally yellow journalistic attacks on Clinton. Let’s not continue to let the corporate media define the stories for us anymore, and let’s first check to make sure the stories have substance before promoting them.
Christy – as someone old enough to have gone through the job interview questions about what type of birth control I was using (no kidding) and whether or not I planned to get married and where my husband worked, there are days when I figuratively bang my head on the desk about the whole thing of being female. I have two daughters who are in their 20s – they are still fighting it. Your Peanut will have to fight it too. Things are not better for women today than they were 30 and 40 years ago – they are actually worse. I think the worst flow out for Hillary over this is the loss of confidence – she will continue to be more and more marginalized until they hope she disappears altogether.
And the Rethugs love this – they really could not care less if it’s gender or race – either card is good for them.
Hear. Hear.
and I saw something I had to comment on, which I rarely do.
who is ignorant enough to not want a president that knows how to cry about things? It shows humanity. The idea that she has to qualify it shows how retarded people truly are.
who do you think the independent candidate will be? You know, the one we will actually vote for.
And what value to you assign to Obama’s missing vote? This is the point I can’t understand. Obama gets a pass.
But he is on record in several newspapers as being favorably disposed to vote Yes on Kyl-Lieberman.
But he didn’t do it. He took a pass.
I don’t think there’s any way that Kyl-Lieberman could have worked in Hillary’s favor. A Yes vote condemned her among us: a No vote would have been used by Obama and then the GOP as being light on state sponsors of terrorism. So, she did the only logical thing- she voted yes.
But Obama skated away, fresh as a daisy. And everyone loves him even though they don’t know a thing about him. Clever politician or ruthless rival? Hmmmm, I’m going to ruthless.
Let’s see, when was the last time we had a ruthless, yet relatively inexperienced politician running for president who was inspiring but for whom we knew almost nothing but his own assertions…. No, No, don’t help. It will come to me…
Re:
Nice phrasing, but quite inaccurate. The powerbrokers are still in charge. No one has swept them out of office or out of the positions behind the scenes. The only thing that is sweeping the country right now is a mania for a successful public speaker who, as was pointed out downstairs is on extremely friendly terms with Robert Rubin and his Hamilton Project team members at the Brookings Institute. This is the Establishment of the Democratic Party and Obama is one of them. He is not change, though he would have the naive believe so.
Change in the Democratic Party would be a Dennis Kucinich, a Jan Schakowsky , a Lynn Woolsey or a Maxine Waters leading the charge in New Hampshire and beyond. But they are not. The Progressive Caucus of the Democratic Party is being shut out in the race for the Presidency, just as it has been shut out in Congress.
It’s useful to not get carried away by the emotion of the moment and remember that the Democratic Party remains firmly in the grasp of the corporations that rule this country. To think otherwise is to fail to understand the threat the people of this nation face.
Consider it progress. When my mother was interviewing for work as a young woman, they would ask if she was married. They wouldn’t hire married women.
I have been watching the gender attack on Hillary for 27 years, the details have changed but the misogyny has not. The “interesting” thing is that the “Hillary Derangement Syndrome” was developed by the VRWC but has spread across the political spectrum. A lot of the irrational attacks that I read on “progressive” blogs have no basis in reality..people seem to set up false political talking points and then attack her. What is really discouraging is to see the disclaimers that precede the “defense of women”. Why is it necessary to say “I am not a Hillary shill or I am not a Hillary supporter but…” What does that have to do will the sexist attacks? Nothing seems to have changed since the same type of attacks were directed against Mrs. Roosevelt.
I think you are wrong. I think it was one of those moments when after pushing really hard and being brave and tough for a long time, and you’ve been holding yourself in, someone undoes you by a simple act of kindness that recognizes how difficult everything is. Like what happened in that clip when someone wondered how she managed to keep doing this day after day.
My husband has never “allowed” me to iron his shirts. Like Dakine, I learned on handkerchiefs first, but never quite mastered them. Mr. Gnome grew up ironing his own clothes because of his family situation. He can out-iron me on anything. That is why all his dress shirts go to the laundry now!
I think the alpha male phenomenon is more than a cultural construct, though culture certainly helps keep it in place for all sorts of reasons, paramount of which is that people with power (men) won’t give it up without a fight.
In an evolutionary context it might have been important (I’ll hold onto the idea that alpha males were really males until GdP provides me with the evidence to the contrary), but in today’s nonevolutionary times, it is probably counterproductive, i.e., leads to military conflicts when other solutions might be more beneficial to all parties involved.
Still, unless you fully take into your model the strong influence of this kind of behavior, you will be unsuccessful at promoting qualified women as leaders.
In addition, I think it explains why those rare women who have achieved positions of power seem to have had to abandon “women’s issues,” and “women’s approaches” in order to get there. And keep them off the table once they get there.
And why Hillary can’t cry, but men can. Men don’t have to prove their maleness (meaning minimal qualification for leadership), while women do.
Ain’t fair, but there it is.
I know I’m a dinosaur, but I actually miss the days when it was okay to be a little violent for what was right. Most descent guys felt a duty to straighten out bullies and to call the hand of big mouths. It is frustrating that, while life has gotten less civil, chicken hawks, bores,and bullies aren’t faced down called to account. I know some women consider those sentiments to be chauvanistic in themselves, but it would have been fun to shove around some big fat sissy ass in that incident.
A woman is on an airplane when the pilot comes on over the intercom and says, “We’ve lost power to both engines, and we are going to crash. Pray to the God of your choice”.
The woman is distraught. She was on her way to be married, and being not as young as typical and *ahem* inexperienced, she knew that she would never feel the touch of a man. She started to sob and sob and finally let out a plaintive yell, “Oh, Lord, please before I die, just once, let me feel like a woman!”.
A guy in the back of the airplane heard her cries and wanted to help. He jumped up and ran toward her tearing off his shirt. He handed it to her and said, “Here, iron this.”
OK, really bad joke, but that’s what the Clinton hecklers remind me of. Hillary’s experience with the hecklers IS what it’s like to be a woman.
Even Boehner?
In summary, the Hillary bashing is sexest to the core.
It is so deep within the human psychic that it’s dresses in different costumes pretending to be something other than what it is. I can regognize it from miles away. This woman is not fooled.
The Hillary bashing is ugly and beyond issues. It’s female bashing to let any other woman know that she will get the same treatment if she dares to enter the hold sanctuary of head of state.
Personally, I’ve always found that immediately mocking some sexist jackass is the best medicine for the idiocy. That’s when that little bit of stand-up that I did in college comes in handy.
Well, that and distracting them with my cleavage… *g* (kidding)
Yes, discussing techniques for countering the problem much more productive than whining about sexism. My effort involved trying to be better than my male competitors, FWIW.
A little OT, but the Dana Milbank’s fellatious fluffery of McCain this morning The Guy With the Bus Is on a Roll tells you all you need to know when it mentions Jay Carney on the bus reading out a headline from the Drudge Report…
[mod note: link fixed]
Any id on the ‘iron my shirt’ guy? Billo, Rush, Hannity?
btw, don’t miss this analysis from Digby on MoDo’s spittle-flecked musings, either.
Slightly OT, but TPM links to an EJ Dionne article that captures the pathos of Hillary’s quandary — it is THE BEST distillation of the history and momentum I’ve read. It is a brilliant analysis.
A Candidacy’s Prose and Cons
This reminds me of the knuckle draggers hanging on the fence at a Dukakis rally, yelling “Lib-ur-al! Lib-ur-al!” Whether it’s gender or politics or haircuts or skin color, the wing nuts are feces flingin’ primates — and we need to smack them down on that level.
Bingo. The message is: You cannot possibly be elected in this country because “us guys” will make sure you know your place”.
Rude. Crude. And effective.
Why should any girl in this country see this junk and want to go into public service? Why put up with it? This political cycle will have repercussions far beyond just whether or not Hillary Rodham Clinton is able to win some primaries. I think after watching this and Nancy “Impeachment is off the table” Pelosi, and Diane “Let’s not talk about my husband” Feinstein…there are going to be a lot of young women who are completely turned off by the entire thing.
these are not nonevolutionary times – evolution has not stopped. but we have seen two big changes:
1) we’re changing the environment faster than the gene pool
2) we now have cultural evolution as well as genetic based evolution
and the interaction between these two is very powerful and very complex.
i’m not saying there is no genetic predisposition to the “men are in charge” bias, because i don’t know…. but we do know that the cultural forces are way stronger – because we have so many counter examples that are based on culture and not on genetic differences.
[mod note: fixed typo]
Nice. Let’s have a discussion about how bad sexism is, by using a derogatory term about the mentally handicapped.
Can we just stick to the issues please?
Post a picture of yourself in decolletage and let us judge if you’re kidding…*g*
As for ironing shirts, it was a symbol of the role of a woman as a servant to the male. Her place was off, away in the kitchen or laundry room ironing shirts. That’s where she was best used. This served the male so he could take center stage. Ugly symbol.
I learned to iron and I do so for myself. As for any guy, you go do your own damn ironing.
eCAHN – the situation I do remember reading about, but still no link – was a pride of lions. Because in the past the animal behaviorists had all been male, it was assumed that the lone male member of the pride was the leader. When women scientists watched the pride’s activities, they saw that it was the females who chose the male as their mate, they were the ones who “kept” him, by allowing him to feed first, loll around in the shade, etc, while they hunted and took care of danger. They were leaders of the pack, not the lone male. It took women in the field to see that. In wolves I know alpha females are quite common.
Yeah, well, that too. My husband joked that I was the hardest working lawyer he ever saw — but I won cases because I never left an angle open if I could help it, and to cover that much ground you had to work twice as hard as anyone else. I’m sure economics and law have some similar gender-treatment issues, even with recent professional advancements for a whole host of women.
The NYDailyNews link above has information on the two asshats…
We need a new constitutional amendment. “You have the right to behave juvenile.” In 1968 I was asked as a single woman at a job interview if I was pregnant. I was stunned by the question, and at that point I probably should have walked out. Since their ideal employee was a white, married 27 year old male…..I didn’t get the job anyway. But many times I’ve kicked myself for not responding with, “Do you ask the male interviewees if they’ve knocked up their single girlfriends?”
Yeah, I know about the lions & thought of that instantly. Don’t think the lions special case disproves the general model though. I don’t know enough about it to prognosticate, though.
Dammit — you made me spew my coffee…
Oh, I don’t know about that. A video poster with these guys and the caption “do you want them to vote for you instead?” should be enough.
In your former life as a chief economist on Wall Street, I’m sure you have a lot of war stories…*g* Aren’t you supoosed to be on the slopes?
Chris Matthews and think. Boy, there is a juxtaposition you don’t see too often.
My mother, who died in her late 80’s, went to work at age 16 to help support her younger sibs during the Depression. The perspectives that she gave me on misogyny, choice etc., confirm what you say about “recognizing it from miles away.”
Clinton should play “You’re so Vain” for Senator Edwards’
and buy him a bottle of New Breck…
that’s what i did too. and in a strange kinda sick way i ended up liking it – because if to succeed i had to be at least twice as good as the guys, it gave me an extra kick to succeed.
but it’s a dangerous egotism to hang on to. because it permits us to subconsciously support the status quo instead of challenging it. and in the end that does the opposite of countering the problem.
Same thing for we female architects. When I went through Architecture school in the ’70’s there were ten women in my freshman class of 200. Only two of those women made it to graduation. And boy did we kick ass. We had to.
I meant nonevolutionary times only in the context of solving today’s problems today. Given that we have the ability to think, and we flatter ourselves, post-enlightenment, into believing that an intelligent approach to a problem is better than the alternative, we don’t really want to wait for evolution to show whether that was the best thing to do.
Good Morning folks…
Sometimes I think that there should be classes on how females can effectively deflect sexist BS on all levels…
Starting in preschool….
And another thing. I can’t turn on the teevee during the weekend (or even the last few nights) without seeing some *tightly* costumed football players touching each others butts. It’s all over the place. What’s up with that?
damn. correction need to my #80:
i’d be grateful to any mod would be so kind as to correct it for me, as the correction is necessary to make sense out of my comment.
so, as I asked before, why would she brand herself “Hillary!” instead of Mrs Clinton? Thats how the right wing has derided her.
Please explain your logic? If he had said the same thing to Ed Muskie, how would you have reacted? You make no sense.
lay off this stuff. You sound like Rush
Sexist symbols cannot be used, ever. Why? It perpetuates the prejudice which is just beneath the surface ready to erupt. Sexism symbols is the same as stereotype images of blacks. Do you think any black male would put on a pair of tap shoes and dance while eating a slice of watermelon? Sexist symbols are the same.
And, I don’t go get the coffee and doughnuts for the male meeting either.
She not only kissed Tweety, but she pinched his cheeks as well. (I meant his face cheeks, not…oh never mind.)
Well, that’s true.
Yeah. Getting ready to go out, but you guys roped me into a topic of some interest. Since you’ve given me an out, I’ll take it & catch up to you all later.
BTW, I ski alone, and at moderate speed with little resting. With no lift lines, I can ski to my physical capacity in 3 hours, or 4 if I’m in better shape than I am today. That’s why I don’t have to rush out for first chair & why I quit before last chair. A lot of miles in a little time!
You know, the funny thing is that women outnumber men in most law schools these days. We had a 50/50 split in my law school class, as I recall. But there was still a sort of “prove yourself by working harder” ethic among just about every female lawyer I knew, not just because we wanted to do well, but we felt like we owed it to the next women to come along…maybe it is a generational thing, I dunno. As I approach 40 this year, I’ve started thinking a lot about how things will be for The Peanut as she gets older. And what I can do to help that along.
double edged sword – she can be seen to diminish herself by using her first name, or she can be seen to diminish herself by using her (famous) husband’s name, and looking like she is riding into office on his coat tails.
This is about the press chortling like I bunch of middle schoolers over juvenile behavior. Rather than condemning it or ridiculing it or even just ignoring it, they revel in it. This is yet another example of the mainstream media showing what “professionalism” really means to them, i.e. it doesn’t mean a damn thing. As I have often maintained, the media nowadays only commit journalism by accident. For the rest, it is meaningless pap and infotainment.
I had a friend that was a Human Resources VP for a major bank. She said that women in her position had to work twice as hard, in order to produce a PERFECT work product — because if the work wasn’t perfect, the back biting beta males would destroy her.
The lesson of all this? If two applicants for a senior position are equal in all respects, but one is male and one is female — hire the woman, to get the best work.
If we get only get people to discern the real form imagined slights, then we will have made real progress. I mean, the “Iron my shirt” crowd is a no-brainer, and not even worthy of discussion. But calling Edwards a “prick” for a rather tepid, gender-neutral response to a question is absurd.
I’m late to this discussion, but wanted to add a few thoughts. First, in response to joze46:
I’m for that if he is using AG as a holding spot for her until a Supreme Court vacancy comes up. Otherwise, I’d hate to see her give up a seat in the Senate.
Next, as for the best response to be ridicule of the hecklers, I agree. Early in the clip, she says something about it being dark in the audience seating area. It’s too bad she didn’t say something about turning on the lights so the cockroach would go away. Alternatively, after getting a look at the buffoon on his way out, she also could have said something about him needing a lot more than an ironed shirt.
Finally, I’m there entirely on the concept of disagreeing with someone on what they have done or what they have stated that they stand for. Never, ever, is it right to attack someone simply for who they are.
Payback’s a bitch?!! Of course, that would not be sexist or personal. It’s sticking to the issues, right? Right?
Girls can’t play football. Girls can’t take woodshop classes. Girls should always let the guy win because they hate to lose. Girls can’t run corporations because they don’t know how to lead. Girls don’t understand politics. Girls shouldn’t take jobs because the men need to support their families….
This is what I heard growing up in the 50s/60s
Hillary is at the “point of the spear” bucking this mentality that never seems to want to die.
Hey Hillary, your sisters have your back and we ain’t taken it anymore.
Don’t tell me I can’t because I’m female.
Except that the usual response is to hire the guy. Even when the female applicant is BETTER, they generally hire the guy.
The real point exactly. Reinforce the stereotype by playing over and over and over in the news while chortling about it.
It’s also a luxury reserved for women of a certain class, and in a certain point in their career arc, as opposed to, say, a working class woman who might be trying to raise a couple young children as the family’s second breadwinner.
I agree but don’t claim disrespect when you are addressed by your first name and the rest by their surname and MR.
I am not a supporter of HRC, but you nailed it with this one, 1-800-BITE ME!
bet you’re referring to the students and not to the profs or deans or others who have institutional power.
there were only 3 women in my chemE program my year – but the really important thing is that there were no women profs.
Way OT – Skiing is not my favorite sport, but if I have my super knee braces on I can out ski most people my age. What I love is snorkeling. I love to snorkel with my daughter (26) because she is the only other person I know who will stay in the water until she turns blue. Actually I turn blue first and it is she who looks at me and says it’s time to get out and warm up.
This one’s for you. You know why…*g*:
excellent point. and an extremely important one. thank you.
… and now i’ve got to run to a doc’s appointment. sorry to miss the rest of the conversation!
I sadly believe we haven’t evolved very far.
There’s actually a movment among some “Big Law” firms to post pics of their lawyers on their websites. This has led to a subtle “attractiveness” quotient/competition among the firms. (There was even a study recently about the effects of whiter teeth on job prospects for goodness sakes. (not just in law))
I cringe every time the MSM talks about Hilary and the pants — much less whether she looks tired. Remember the hairstyles reportage of the White House days? The only male candidates who have endured anything like this are Mitt and JRE and that’s because they are “too attractive.”
We’re on a slippery slope here folks. Good thing there’s no standard of attractiveness for the Sunday talking heads.
What ever happened to substance?
If the rightwing was educated and had some smarts, they would know that many women dropped their last name because they were legitimized only by the male name. To become their own person either they had no last name or they took both their parents names. I decided to change my last name to include both my parents giving full recognition to the female line in my heritage as well as the male.
I don’t know why other people do that, but I use Hillary’s first name as a single-word placeholder because to say “Clinton” is confusing — yes, I mean Sen. Clinton, but it could be confused with former President Clinton.
It’s easier shorthand, and something I choose to do, not directed by her or her campaign. Occam’s razor on this one — it’s to avoid confusion or conflation of her with him, not for some other more complex reason, at least for me anyway.
Mr. Gnome ALWAYS hires the female because he knows they are better. At one company where he was CEO, every single VP was female. He was very proud of that.
Christy said:
Interesting – I just had a conversation with my sister-in-law about this – the same is happening in many professional faculties. In the field where she works (non-profits and churches) leadership is almost exclusively female. Some folks are starting to worry about what is happening with all the young men.
Though I am really enjoying Huckabee because of the havoc he is causing in the Repug establishment… if he keeps up with crap like this:
he is not going to last long as a potential front runner. Pity.
I think that in order for any change there has to be some kind of adjusting the way we interact with each other so that nobody ends up being a “victim”…
Sex, race, etc….
That’s why I was thinking that it would be a good idea to start young…
Wow! Froomkin up way early Crocodile tears over the economy.
I agree that this needs a little pushback, with emphasis on the “a little”. This loser should be quickly dismissed. “What a loser!” would do fine. He should not be given any more attention than that.
Hillary is a classic misandrist. Doesn’t like men. Never did. And it showed.
Bound to end this way.
What I find interesting in this is that it suggests that Hillary continues to look to the past not the future and to the right not the left. These were the choices that got her into her present situation.
O/T
I’ve got a new post up over at DailyKos: Making Impeachment Work. Kossacks please visit, and recommend if you can.
Aloha!
Bob in HI
In which case, Mr. GdP is a more evolved guy than most and good on him.
It is interesting that no one in the media dares to talk about Obama’s physical characteristics. I refer to my mixed race friends’ skin as being a gorgeous mocha color. They think I am nuts when I tell them that that is the color skin is supposed to be, not pasty white. (NO I don’t tan myself to achieve that.)
I’ve kept my (father’s) name and insisted that my daughters inherit my name while my sons get my husband’s name. We’ve only had boys, though.
I trained as a pediatrician, and my co-workers were 80% female. It’s been that way for a while. One of my co-workers even told me that she overheard her kids playing make-believe one day, and one of them said, “You can’t be a doctor, silly! You’re a boy! Only girls can be doctors!”
OT:
link from comment in C&L goes to a good article at the Guardian.
Perhaps with an econ tanking and primary today the long term impact would be more harsh to gender bias than Tweety not being fired when he is a tool:
Bush convenes Plunge Protection Team
http://tinyurl.com/36h9ez
Do you know her personally? Or are you just surmising this from the sort of coverage she gets from the media which has been, shall we say, less than fair through the years? Because I happen to know a number of men who have worked with and for her who seem to love her a lot…and do NOT feel that way about her at all, even the ones who have worked opposite on issues from her talk about her with a grudging respect for her work ethic and not one word about what you posit. Do you have particular links or proof — or is it just some sort of gut feeling based on something else entirely? I’m truly curious where that is coming from, because it runs against everything — and I mean EVERYTHING — that I have heard about her from the people close to her.
It sounds to me like something Carville would float out for himself, frankly.
Recommended.
I think Hillary is great. I wish she wasnt part of a dynasty. I think we need to move on from the Clintons.
I would love a woman but not this one.
I can personally attest to this. I presented candidates for men to hire in upper management in corporations. You can count the ones who go hired on one hand. My women candidates were outstanding and beat out every male competitor. Still she was rejected. I actually had one CEO tell me the candidate was “too attractive” and shouldn’t be in a leadership position. She dressed conservatively in a suit and still she was rejected. Her great flaw – female.
For that matter, executives often hired men who were less than themselves to make certain all competition was cut out. Strange, Very strange.
OT – this just seems interesting.
I couldn’t care less about Ron Paul, but at what point can you call this interfering with an election?
Okay, I’m sorry but that doesn’t add to the discussion because it denigrates on a lot of levels…
Do you know Hillary personally to make this observation?…
Ditto from what I know of her from her friends. She likes guys and they like her — except for maybe the ones who are so insecure they feel threatened by her. *g*
Nothing sexist about that belief and policy.
Oh, and the Guardian uses the name Plunge Protection Team.
I think the older crowd (yes, I’m an agist!) is probably more likely to perceive an innocent interaction as victimization, or to erect subtexts out of thin air.
I certainly see more equitable assumptions about gender and race being employed in my daughter’s middle school friends than what I experienced when I was their age.
it’s the paultards coming out party. from here on out we’re going to see some of the usa’s biggest asses coming out of dark deep holes they live in. we are going to see it all this time around. everyone will show themselves for who they are and it ain’t going to be pretty.
Great post, Christy. This is simply beyond the pale-discuss SENATOR Clinton’s stand on the issues, but this garbage has got to stop. We have to push back and push back hard on this.
recommended. excellent, btw.
This is a rather common idea in much of the rest of the world, that nationality should be based upon blood not location. Thus for example Germany repatriated ethnic Germans from the former Soviet Union whose ancestors left German speaking areas 200 years before. At the same time they sought to deny “Turks” citizenship even though they had been born in Germany and had grown up there.
This definition ties in with the racist, nativist strain you see in a lot of the right wing.
I take it this is snark and I didn’t get it. You are smarter than this, right? If you are sincere, please back up this comment so I can understand.
I sense some misandry around here these days as well. Not that it’s undeserved. A little misguided pushback sometimes is a good thing, evens the playing field.
Paultard?
Sorry, didn’t realize that was an off limits topic.
True Confession: He also hired them because he knew that they would work cheaper. However, he did reward them for their excellent work and would mentor them for their next big job where he would not be there to fight for them.
New thread upstairs.
Did that ass really call me a “paultard”?
QC – I’ve had the same experience on a personal level. I left my last job because I continuously watched them hire less qualified men for the job I kept applying for. Loved the field but realized I would never get to do what I wanted to do because…I’m female. Their loss.
Carville engaging in blatant self-promotion? I can’t believe it. *g*
Always nice to know there is hope for the young…
Maybe they can teach all of us a thing or two…
Can we please find a better term? Some of the pups are struggling with mentally handicapped children and this kind of label is hurtful.
Folks, I know that a lot of folks are tense (understatement) about how their own personally supported candidates may or may not be doing. But can the name-calling at each other, please? Don’t make me pull over this blog…
As someone who has worked in education from middle schools through grad programs, be prepared for equitable assumptions to yield more divergent behaviors as your daughter and her friends age.
Hate to say that but our culture is telegraphing less equity in many ways. It’s the bane of professionals (of a certain age) who fought for equality in the sixties/seventies (yes I’m old).
It’s so hard to want something for a young woman that society is not sure she should want for herself.
I’ve got children and grandchildren of both sexes and have worked to see that they all get through college. I hope the ultimate goal is to remove discrimination based on sex.
The guys that did that are stupid. I mean why would they do that knowing it would get her more votes? I guess because they are stupid.
im sorry. just came in from wonkette’s. please forgive me.
Uh-oh. That sounds ominous. So your experience is that things are regressing?
Men like authenticity. Hillary had none.
Even Hillary’s ads were aimed at women, like she was selling cosmetics.
There was never any room for men in the Hillary agenda.
I forgive you.
Paulistas? Paulizens? Paulbots?
“Supporters of a candidate that wants to abolish public schools” works pretty well for me.
St. Pauli Girls
Seriously? You thought this ad was like selling cosmetics? Or this one? Or this one?
What do you base that on — any particular ad that you recall seeing? Because, frankly, I have found her ads to be pretty issue forward and, at times, trying to pull on a sort of Reagan-esque “I’ll bring morning to America” feel to them, but not really any message on “vote for me, I’m a girl and you’re a girl,” and I was looking for hints of that throughout. Just haven’t seen it…so I’m wondering if I missed an ad. Is there a particular one you are talking about — would really like to know.
Yes they are. It’s an issue of paramount concern to educators in high schools and colleges.
The media in this country that is targeted towards young people is disgusting. They shill he party mentality and the need to be “hot” goals that are becoming pervasive. All of this works directly against young women and cuts across socioeconomic levels.
There’s a reason there is so much reportage on Britney and Lindsay Lohan. Kids have been sold the idea that their lifestyles are desirable…and many buy in.
There are great young people out there but the social pressures they face are enormous and not adequately on our radar.
If you ask my sister (a high school pricipal w/ 30+ yrs in the classroom plus front office) what has changed, she’ll say the parents. Too many of them cannot “talk” given what they’re up to behaviorally. It’s that or they’re too busy/stressed to know what to do.
The most important key to effective parenting when your daughter’s away from you is to know and communicate with the parents of her friends.
Off of soapbox now!
Damn. I left this at the prior thread:
christy:
That’s a neat title to the post. But you don’t you write your own headlines, do you? I’m told nobody does that.
I do like the title.
It’s the Paris Hilton phenomenon — be a star based on some looks/hotness/buzz quality, not based on your body of work. Party girl not professional.
Yep, have been reading about that concern cropping up more and more as well…especially as the thinner and thinner entertainment body trend and catwalk model trend keeps on escalating.
ty. crazy times ahead
Everything will be ok, Mr Can’t Keep his Dick in his pants will now ride to the rescue.
Stay close, hold hands. It’s gonna be wild.
whatever you do, don’t follow the masses.
Clinton, a former first lady running to become the nation’s first female president, laughed at the seemingly sexist protest….
Yes, but it was a horrible cackle.
Christy. Keep up the fight for women, if women weren’t in the picture just think what kind of a society we would have. Any sort of Men’s only bullshit is just crazy! Society/humanity has greatly benefited by women being involved. They may usually be the weaker sex in terms of physical strength but intellectually the main difference between both male and female is the level of education and life experiences! Personally I welcome women to all levels of society/work or any endeavor they wish to pursue!
Beside I would love to watch as A (dominate male) give birth.
I have been at my ladies for the birth of all of my kids and they are troupers, no male could go through that ever. They would be screaming for anything just to get it over!
You go Christy and make sure your little peanut grows up to be a well rounded individual who knows no bounds for what she may dream for herself and her fituer family. I bet she will do you and your husband proud!.
I just can’t quite express myself to the magnitude of how I feel about this subject. Besides all of us are Gods children and where do these biggots get the balls to insinuate the women are inferior.
I have to admit that although my daughter attends public school, we live in somewhat unusual and exclusive community (Note: Our income and home value is in the lowest 5 percentile).
So maybe her experience is far from typical. One thing that pleasantly surprised me was the lack of cliques, or “Queen Bee” behavior, as well as the diversity of fashion and tolerance for quirkiness. Maybe it won’t last, but I can only hope.
I’ve said this many times at the Lake: I respect and admire Senator Clinton.
I didn’t think Edwards response was misogynistic. I thought it was competitive. I think he might have said the same thing about a male competitor. Was it a good move? I don’t know. I just don’t think it was the Big M.
OTOH. The press makes a mountain out of any tiny little molehill they can. It’s disgusting. I for one am glad to see a few citizens get extremely vocal with the press. The same press that ignores demonstrations against the war has to find some stupid idiotic nonsense to report instead.
The people who yell “iron my shirts” really are trolls. I’m curious if they would yell “shine my shoes” to Obama in public.
Totally agree. To expect Edwards to have acted any differently than he did towards HRC, is to demand him to be patronizing by treating her differently.
Agree as well on the trolls, who should only be ignored.
Well here’s an ironic anecdote for you:
I grew up during the 70’s and I agree that we’ve come a long baby and we’re starting to walk backwards once again.
I took my daughter to a pro basketball game to the same team I watched when I was her age. We were treated to several invitations to buy a girlie calendar and got to watch the girls gyrate during halftime…quite the show.
And yes, many parents of girls do allow them to fall into the sex-pot trap. I’ve been shocked/surprised by the number of mothers who are also working professionals who encourage this sort of thing.
Her response should have been … Could someone please escort the gentleman to a Republican event, it appears he’s lost. On the other hand, it explains why the Republicans are so confused about evolution – how can there be humans if Neanderthals still exist?
I have to say, just shopping for clothes for my four-year-old daughter is an issue. Here’s a clue, clothing manufacturers: I do not want my preschool-aged child dressing like Britney Spears on her no panty nights, thank you very much.
We really are in a bizarre place at the moment, aren’t we?
Yep….they have actually had to send home letters in some school districts about what the mothers wear when they come to school.
The public schools in my hometown (rural eastern NC) adopted uniforms for the entire system a couple of years ago. There was much opposition, resentment at first. However, it’s cheaper for the families, a kind of “protection” against classism for the kids and has translated into improved behavior at school.
The teachers at the middle school placed an ad in the newspaper thanking the community for making the change.
My daughter is just naturally an anti-Britney. For years she’s rejected that whole precocious look without any prompting from us. The downside is that she’s prudish, constantly policing my wife’s attire, refusing to go out in public if she wears anything with a neckline that’s too low. I guess I should count my blessings.
“In response to bobschacht @ 136: Recommended.”
Thanks! One of the Commenters posted a video of Elizabeth Holtzman on the value of the process of impeachment.
Bob in HI
I’ve been thinking a lot about the whole business of crying for a while.
It would be nice if no one fought or always fought fair and stuck to the issues, but nice is not reality. And so much of the time, the actual “issues” are unspoken…and not always between married couples.
When I was married to my ex-husband, whenever we’d fight he’d start right in with: “don’t you dare cry…that’s just a woman’s trick because women fight dirty”…or words to that effect. I wasn’t a big crier anyhow, but I got to where I never cried in a fight.
This past summer, about 25 years later, I finally figured out that as soon as he said that, I should have started bawling my eyes out (onion in the hanky, if necessary). If I’d have cried, I’d have won every battle.
Most men really don’t want to see themselves as bullies. A person in fighting mode provokes a fighting response in a man – no matter who started it and no matter if the antagonist is male or female. And sometimes a man feels “unmanned” if he backs down from a fight, so the fight goes on and sometimes escalates, to no one’s benefit. Even if the woman is the aggressor and strikes the first blow, the man usually cops the charge when the police get called.
A woman crying gives a man an opportunity to back down or negotiate and still save face. It’s acceptable to be “the bigger man” and back down in the face of a woman’s tears.
I’m just talking about some regular people, not real nutcases who will beat you up for breathing. The whole man/woman thing is very tricky.
But I am just a person rambling in a conversation on a blog. I am not the mainstream media.
The real big question is why the MSM is making an issue of Hillary’s tears AT ALL and yet there’s minimal mention of the behavior of the jackass who prompted this thread.
Well, it being the MSM and all, there’s also minimal mention of real issues.
pardon my french, but those punks [edited by mod].
[Mod Note; In the comments at FDL, please do not advocate violence towards anyone. Thanks.]
Heh… this was quick.
in a polite, non-violent sort of way, that is ….
dosido January 8th, 2008 at 9:46 am
188
I’ve said this many times at the Lake: I respect and admire Senator Clinton.
I didn’t think Edwards response was misogynistic. I thought it was competitive. I think he might have said the same thing about a male competitor. Was it a good move? I don’t know. I just don’t think it was the Big M.
OTOH. The press makes a mountain out of any tiny little molehill they can. It’s disgusting. I for one am glad to see a few citizens get extremely vocal with the press. The same press that ignores demonstrations against the war has to find some stupid idiotic nonsense to report instead.
The people who yell “iron my shirts” really are trolls. I’m curious if they would yell “shine my shoes” to Obama in public.
________________
What would they say at a Larry Craig campaign rally?
Hi, just circling back now. I picked up said daughter at school (sick tummy) and saw the replies just now after hanging out at the later threads…
Another anecdote: I met a dad who helped coach his daughter’s softball team. The girls would come to practice in the skimpiest clothing and it really bothered him so much that he sat them down one day. He said, look, you need to wear athletic clothing for athletic activities. Plus, it isn’t appropriate for you to wear what you are wearing in front of a middle aged guy like me. So give me a break.
He was just really honest about what they were communicating without being aware. They shaped up.
As for the Britney saga; I am truly bothered by the media stalking of the train wreck. My life is not better informed or improved by reading about her. It just feeds on itself much to the detriment of her kids. etc etc. Also, some of these bimbos really believe they are following in the footsteps of Marilyn Monroe (or something) and really want to emulate the legend. Sorry, girls, but MM owns that story. It was her life. Write your own story with a happier ending please.
All that said, presentation is important (just ask Hillary!) just know what you are trying to communicate.
see you all on the later threads I hope.
There was a 50/50 split in my law school class also (class of 2000, so not that long ago). And yet, some of the male law students of my acquaintance said they wouldn’t settle for less than a stay-at-home wife. And I tell you, when you study family law that’s where all the knuckle-draggers come out to play — women have babies just to jack men up for child support, alimony is state-sanctioned slavery, and worse. Our Federalist Society even hosted a female speaker whose topic was how much better she felt about life since she’d stopped being an attorney, because her womanhood had been sullied by the mean, dirty field of law (though not, apparently, by being a paid shill for sexism).
Honestly, sometimes I felt like I was operating in a parallel world from the rest of my school. Just give me the degree and I’ll be on my way, thanks.
Amen to that Christy. I’m completely disappointed by Edwards’ remarks to the news. i haven’t read the thread so i don’t know if i’m repeating but we need our candidates to be above the current cesspool we call politics and news. I want a leader that has the grace and strength to lead with dignity and respect.
I’m surprised people have mentioned the word “disrespect.” What they did was bigoted. Misogyny isn’t simply poor form, but bigotry–intolerance and hate. Misogyny remains the only bigotry that is not taken seriously. Imagine if antisemites did this against a Jewish candidate: we wouldn’t sanitize the act of hate by calling it somehow rude (We wouldn’t scold the bigots by saying, “You should be more “respectful” towards Jews”).
As a young man, I’ve noticed how my peers are all-too comfortable being absolutely hateful towards women (and girls) because they, too, believe that slurs are just common foul language (Hell, today they’re used as synonyms for “woman,” “girl,” or anything that is degraded) and that all anti-female bigotry is either trivial, justified, or a result of “nature.” That even extends to violent acts of anti-female hate. This could only be valid if we assume women and girls are not human because last time I checked humans were entitled to basic rights and civil liberties, which dehumanization and demonization deny them.
Boy oh boy, the Obama campaign really really pushed some buttons. First they throw out racism, patriotism, misogyny, emotionalism and god knows what else and then they see who responds.
I got mad and told ‘em to shove it.
The ladies here are really really upset.
But, there’s a difference. I got mad at the Obama supporters because it was obvious it came from them. The ladies are mad at Edwards because of what they perceive he meant. Meanwhile, most men don’t see anything wrong with what Edwards said. He didn’t mention gender when he said campaigning or being president was difficult.
Tell me, what if we learned Obama’s campaign had set up Edwards with a reporter asking pointed questions meant to draw out something that could be twisted?
It certainly fits with the other nasty things we’ve heard in the last 72 hors from Obama supporters!
Think about it and wonder, is the Obama campaign capable of such deviousness? Is Karl Rove?
This is a very ugly story and it sounds a heck of a lot more like a Republican scheme than anything Democrats would even dream of doing. Wouldn’t it be more fun to hate KKKarl more than ever than to turn against one another?