Maybe it was a bunch of teenagers messing around…

If they were flying the Iranian flag or wearing Iranian military uniforms or using military weaponry, then it wouldn’t matter if they were British. It could still start a conflagration of major importance.

We really really don’t need that kind of crap just now.

The incident with the British Marines took place on the Shatt al Arab which is the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates and flow out into the Gulf. The question was of territorial waters not international ones. The Marines maintained they were in Iraqi national waters. The Iranians claimed they were in Iranian ones.

The Shatt al Arab boundary has always been an issue. There are no permanent marker buoys, so it is always difficult to tell which side of the border you’re on when you’re out in open waters. Eventually, that will be resolved with Global Positioning imagery, and the border will be defined by GPS coordinates. There will have to be an International Harbor Pilot analogous to an Air Traffic Controller who has electronic imagery of each ship on a background where the border is electronically drawn. As with airplanes, each ship will have to have a proper electronic signature, like airplanes do so that Air Traffic Controllers can keep track of them. But we’re a long way from that day, politically. (Technologically, we could do it tomorrow.)

As it is, with fast-moving boats, there’s the time factor as well– like, when were you where? There was another incident in the Shatt a few months ago that similarly involved allegations about which ship was where. So what we have, both in the Shatt al-Arab, and in the Straits of Hormuz, is like two opponents bobbing and weaving, jabbing and feinting, and playing games with threats and non-threats. There is great potential for either side to create a Gulf of Tonkin-type incident/non-incident if they want to. Meanwhile, they jab and feint, bob and weave, to see how the other side reacts.

Bob in HI

That said, if Edwards doesn’t start to realize that repeating a single thing (even if it’s a good single thing) ad nauseum only works for Republican supporters – he’s going to be done soon.

I don’t find Obama’s empty rhetoric and preacher-like cadence persuasive or inspirational though the majority of our electorate aren’t exactly discerning so …

I thought Hillary’s Iowa ad was better.

- car pool buddy: Obama
- his wife: Clinton
- me: Edwards

Was quite a fun trip with them.

—-

My wife had voted for Edwards earlier. She had not really liked any of them and then had watched a few of the last debates and was pleased that she had to really think who to vote for in the booth having liked things from all of them in the debates.

- I wrote in Al Gore for VP.

The dollar fell against most rival currencies, except the yen today.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080108/wall_street.html

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- U.S. President George W. Bush warned lawmakers not to raise taxes while the U.S. economy faces credit-market-related challenges, saying his administration has a good plan to deal with the turmoil in the housing market.
http://news.morningstar.com/ne…..at=EcoNews

“I just want to let you know we got a strategy.” aka; the Chinese will lend us more money. Welcome to the Bush Voodoo Economy

Oil Prices fell yesterday. He has to keep those prices up somehow. I see they “rebounded” today and are moving back to the $100/Bl territory. Of Course, Iran profits from this showdown as well. At least in the short term.

The Cushing spot is currently trading at $96.33/bbl. Movement in the market is now almost completely due to speculation and not to supply and demand issues except as these play into the speculation. So supposedly prices fell last week because of the bad job numbers. Well, those numbers are still with us but the market moved on. The Hormuz incident took place on a Sunday and was resolved without violence so on Monday there was no real fallout from it. Which is not to say there could have been. Speculators are chasing will o’ the wisps here. Reality seldom intrudes in any significant way. When it does look out.

Russia has no aircraft carriers except the Kuznetsov and I don’t even know if it is really operational in any meaningful sense of the word. I do not know that the Chinese have any battleships. Battleships are and have been obsolete for decades although Reagan did recommission a few for a few years. No, foreign warships can not enter the territorial waters of another country without that country’s permission. But the Strait of Hormuz is an international waterway so the examples you give don’t apply.

What is important here is the International Agreement on the Hormuz straits, posted earlier on this thread, and precisely where the U.S. ships were located with respect to those zones when they were approached by the small Iranian boats.

Bob in HI

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes…..ex.html?hp

Apparently it is bad and backward looking for Democrats to make comparisons between their candidates and John or Bobby Kennedy because Matt wasn’t born or old enough at the time and doesn’t understand them. Of course that all of the Republicans embrace positions that come out of the Stone Age well I suppose that’s OK. It just amazes me that the Times pays money Matt Bai, Michael Gordon, Tom Friedman, Bill Kristol. It is like it has become a charity dedicated to the support of halfwit pundits and hack reporters.