Matt Stoller and Echidne are right. Male candidates can cry and it shows their humanity; Hillary Clinton cries and she's weak and hysterical. And why shouldn't she be emotional at this point? Her male fellow candidates don't have to put up with leering, chortling, oily creeps like Chris Matthews and Joe Scarborough laughing at them and disrespecting them when they're trying to run a fucking political campaign.
She is not your private bawdy joke, lads.
Oh and John Edwards? Please stop being a patronizing, sexist jerk.
And I'm sorry. Planned Parenthood and NARAL lost the right to put the "pro-choice stamp of approval" on anything when they sent out those mailers telling their members to thank Joe Lieberman for his vote to put Samuel Alito on the Supreme Court. To grant them that authority is positively ahistoric.
There is definitely a double standard going on here. If Hillary Clinton tried that old "the dog ate my Senate schedule" excuse for missing Kyl-Lieberman (when there was evidence to the contrary), there would be spew alerts everywhere.
You may disagree with her on substance. She may not be your candidate of choice. But for chrissakes, treat the woman with respect.
Update: Amanda Marcotte pulls her support from John Edwards and switches it to Obama over Edwards' remarks. (h/t rc)
Login Here
Share This
Spotlight
zed?
crying didn’t work for Muskie.
Honestly, I didn’t see her cry, meaning, I didn’t see tears running down her face while holding a wine glass and staggering all about. Her voice started cracking and I’ve heard that same kind of voice on myself when I talk about the direction of where our country is going. For a second, I could tell that Hillary was also feeling the desperation that we’ve all felt.
Amen, Jane.
This immediately raises my ire.
When I hear her called names, I just want to vote for her even more. I want her to win.
Jane, you’re picking on my man Edwards! I read his quotes and I saw competitive talk there and yes, it wasn’t very compassionate (Obama did better in that dept).
Pick on Matthews. Jeesh. He was having a field day in the men’s locker room with the hillary tears.
The tears confused me. Hillary is tough. Why cry now?
I feel dirty after watching that!
I support JRE but agree wholeheartedly with your post Jane. Have several friends who have known HC since college. They all say she is much different (when relaxed and in person) that she appears to be…a delight to be with and someone who is a treasured, funny friend.
Wish circumstances were such that she could/would allow that side to be seen.
Reading your post made me realize that one of my greatest concerns about her being President is that she would be treated so badly by so many. It would make the Bill’s days in the WH seem relatively placid.
What a sad commentary on our country.
Jane Thank you for saying this. I am for Edwards but will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee. I have been amazed and appalled at some of the things that have been said about her right here. She is not some sort of demon.
Some people here are not old enough to know what it was like when women had very few rights and they might stop for a moment and think about what a stunning thing it is that she is doing. If she is the nominee, I will support her 100% and with joy in my heart.
Doesn’t hysterical come from the idea of the “wandering uterus”? Hence only women could become hysterical because only they had uteruses. I think this is totally untrue. I have seen all of the Republican candidates and they must have uteruses then can do back flips.
I do not see Edwards’ comments (John’s that is… ) as being sexist or patronizing at all…. he simply said he’s prepared for the challenge… made no mention of male/female or or said anything patronizing.
Just said he was ready to fight for the middle class… he did not disrespect Clinton peronally.
What’s wrong with that?
Anyone supporting Lieberman or other members of the gang of fourteen during that time need to answer for it. Hello Wes Clark and Hillary.. both raise money in active support of self declared Anti Choice Dem, Senator Mark Pryor of Ar, in his reelection bid this year.
I agree with the respect part. Even though she voted for that disgusting Kyl/Lieberman, at least she bothered to show up, unlike Barack Obama.
I am watching Gwenn Ifill/PBS and getting more and more iritated with the “change” meme spouted by candidates, and then Gwenn Ifill says something like, “well looks like the people of New Hampshire are ready for some real change.” *Slap me across the cheek*
What they don’t say is what real change? How? Specifics. By voting for the Peru Free Trade Agreement?. Screwing the American worker in favor of corporations? Basically ignoring Edwards who came in second, and not asking questions, I am truly irritated that the media seems to feel they can make our decisions for us based on the how many times the candidate says “change.” Ifill didn’t bother to interview Edwards.
i agree, treat her with respect! The double standard stuff is almost enough to make me a Hillary supporter.
She was relating how a woman asked her, “How are YOU?” That was a compassionate question, and it kind of got to her. I think that’s why.
You are so right, Jane, Matthews has been attacking Hillary daily for at least the last year.
Muskie didn’t break down and cry. See Somerby’s post about how High Priest Broder decided to expand on the incident to fit his narrative. Two-thirds of the way down “The Great Ed Muskie Crying Incident.” http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh112807.shtml
I never heard anyone say she’s a demon. But as an agent of “change” ? For me Barack Obama and Hillary don’t cut it. (How about that Free trade agreement with Peru?)
Kay I am with you one that one. It is just wingnut hatred for all things Clinton.
We are as beyond sexism as we are racism, which is to say not at all. I disagree profoundly with Hillary Clinton on the issues. I could care less what she has in her eye.
it’s a sexist racist culture we live in. i wish we could own up to it and work at getting past it.
I’ll check it out. thanks.
Who will be first to use two words on air, “Hot Flash”? I think Tweety will beat FOX to that low.
Somewhere, Senator Edward Brooke must be chortling. You will remember that in 1969 Brooke, a moderate Republican, had the bad luck to be commencement speaker at Wellesley College on the day Hillary Rodham made a name for herself as a voice of her generation. She politely gave the first black American to be elected to the Senate since Reconstruction the back of her hand. “For too long our leaders have used politics as the art of the possible,” she said. (“This is bad?” Brooke must have been thinking.)
It was not actually anything in particular that Brooke and his ilk had done that earned Hillary’s lightly disguised contempt. It was just that they were tired and old and always looking for some way to cut a grubby deal instead of setting their sights on the impossible dream. She and her generation, she said, were “searching for a more immediate, ecstatic and penetrating mode of living.”
That is one of the most powerful questions of all time no matter where and to whom it’s asked. I say that, because years ago when I was in high school, I worked at a local pharmacy. One day an old man came in and I asked him how he was doing today, but I must have said it in a way that affected him deeply, because he took me aside and told me about his wife passing away. He shared many thoughts about her to me. The following Sunday when he came in to get the Sunday paper, he gave me some chocolate. I know it’s not much of a story, but sometimes asking that question can deeply affect someone…especially if someone is feeling “alone” at the time it’s asked.
Hillary is not my favorite, but is it possible she’s feeling a little beaten up right now?
Did you see her exchange with Chris Methane after he questioned her? I thought she did quite well handling him. Kissed his cheek and, then, dismissed him. Sort of like “Bless your heart Chris”.
I sorta predicted back in the spring of 2007 that if fdl became pre-eminently absorbed in the Dem Prez primaries and 2008 Prez race, we’d fall out, squabbling. This past week has seen increasing examples of that.
Jane isn’t squabbling - I’ve seen the same indicators she mentions. But there probably will be a lot of squabbling in the comments to this thread.
Misogyny is even more pervasive in American institutional structures than racism, and is more difficult to overcome. Just this morning, on NPR’s Morning Edition or some other program, while discussing the eclipse in Iowa of HRC by Obama, people mentioned that it is easier to elect a black man to the White House than a woman of any race. I don’t know whether or not that is true. We just elected a woman as governor of Alaska - the most faux macho state in the country.
Hillary certainly has my respect. In the world of music, they call it “paying your dues” when someone has played their music under all kinds of conditions to all kinds of audiences, and you do it because you just need to do it. Since about 1991, I think Hillary has paid her dues, many times over, and has been pummeled by her foes, and sometimes even by her friends. For all that, she has my respect. She has actually learned to like being on the campaign trail, and fielding questions from members of the audience. And she often does a good job of connecting with them on a personal level (certainly much better than John Kerry ever did.)
However, she is not my preferred candidate because of her votes on war and peace issues, and civil rights issues (see Progressive Punch). On those issues, she ranks in the bottom 20 among Democratic senators. We can do better.
Bob in HI
Actually maybe I am inclined to be soft on Edwards, especially since he could have been a little harried when the question was asked. Hillary didn’t strike me as weak, she looked beautiful. She put on no false accent (which bothers me when she does), and she sounded honest. That still doesn’t excuse the Kyl/Lieberman vote, the lack of support for Dodd, and the Free trade love.
I support Edwards too. He doesn’t get a free pass to say that if Hillary gets emotional she is unfit for leadership.
I agree 100% with you. As a female, who has cried at work, I understand. And let me say, 80% of my adult tears are of frustration, not sadness. I am not planning to vote for Hillary, but this makes me sorely want to.
WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET THESE IMBECILES OUT OF MSM? I am going to cry again — out of frustration. LOL
Didn’t Bill Frist cry on the floor of the Senate when talking about Terri Schiavo? How come it was okay to do that! Spit.
I grew up with four sister and they made sure I respected girls. I have never that girls aren’t Smart enough, tough enough or what ever. Women are just as capable as men and when I see “the boys” treating women poorly I just get pissed off. You wouldn’t want to disparage any of my female acquaintances with me in the room I don’t stand for it. Plain and simple. If more men would stand up for women we might not hear about so many atrocities being done to our ladies.
Since when is treating Presidential candidates with respect the norm? Think of the folks that have been ’slimed’ over the last two elections in general. On both sides.
YES
I agree. My point was that she is breaking ground that the next generation won’t have to even if she loses. She is taking a daily smearing and keeps going. Women have done that since the beginning and she deserves credit for her fortitude. She’s tough.
Well both Chris Matthews and Tim Russert act like a bunch of preverts eyeing a school girl during the debate or whenever the discussion is about Hillary. They’re sick!
All these “candidates” say any goddamn thing they want about each other during campaigns and then do that bullshit ” my friend” after the election. It’s all fucking bullshit. Don’t mean nuthin.
When first watching Hillary today, I thought simply that is was fake, much like the Rep. Boner “Crying Game.”
My wife says it looks real to her, and it probably came out because of being so tired. My wife is usually correct, so I’ll believe that it’s real.
John Boehner cries all the time.
I think that Hillary’s emotion was genuine- she had no reason to tear up- it won’t help her- and if she was fakin she should be in Hollywood- few are that good at acting.
Seemed like a candid and sincere moment.
What about Boehner cryin’ all the time…Didn’t Nixon cry in his Checkers speech? Freakin’ hypocrites…
When first watching Hillary today, I thought simply that is was fake, much like the Rep. Boner “Crying Game.”
Oh no, she wouldn’t do that would she?
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/13/boehner-weeps/
Heck, John Boehner cries 100 proof tears on the floor of the House every time he needs to recycle his last martini.
That’s right and Bonkers just mentioned @38 Rep. Boner drunk and crying on the floor of the House!
See? Lots of male babies in the republican party who use their tears not in a genuine way. ;-)
Exactly. LOL!
This should cheer you all up:
Sunday’s Golden Globe Awards ceremony has been canceled and replaced with a news conference amid the Hollywood writers’ strike.
drunk and weak.
You forgot stupid.
I forgot bad hair, too.
1. There were no tears. There was a certain shakiness of the voice that people have when they feel something deeply.
2. Yes she is tough, but she is also human. The schedule has been grueling, and she may actually believe in what she is doing. (I’m surprised about that a bit, but there you are.)
3. She’s not my candidate either (to the extent that a Canadian can have a dog in the race) but I do have some respect for her.
Uh oh. What’s Sally Field gonna do?
Bob Schacht - i don’t know if you saw my comment - it got epu’d at the end of the last thread. Even though I’ve been in favor of impeachment, I really didn’t see what the point of it was. So I REALLY appreciate your taking the time to lay it out in the last thread. It’s the first explanation I’ve seen that’s invitingly readable and shows why it completely makes sense. I’ve saved it. Again, real gratitude.
Matthews was one of the first to crown Hillary the inevitable Democratic candidate. Just like he was a big supporter of the Iraq war, drooling as he did over Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” speech. Now he is ripping Hillary and to hear him tell it a big time critic of the Iraq war. He’s just a bubbleheaded weasel. He occasionally has lucid moments but they never last more than a few minutes. Then it is back to the news as a clown show.
And what about Jimmy Swaggert? And the time Jim Baker was handcuffed and crying on the way to the police car?
And what about the time George Bush was smirking, laughing, and pushing his eyebrows up and down at his staff and having a fun ole time right before he announced that American troops were bombing Iraq? Oh wait. He wasn’t crying, now was he? Bastard.
I hear Georgie Pordgie cries too, maybe his uterus is slightly askew… oh, gross. Never mind.
….and had a wet leather face.
I am watching Gwenn Ifill/PBS and getting more and more iritated with the “change” meme spouted by candidates,
and just a few minutes ago, a segment on hardball counted the times the word ‘change’ was used by the candidates in the last debate.
don’t tell me the rnc doesn’t guide the wdc chattermonkeys’ talking points.
this media coverage really is repulsive. and there are increasing signs of people being really fed up and acting on it. a few days ago in comments here, someone remarked how an iowa crowd reacted (positively, loudly, pointedly) to bill richardson’s comments that the american people will make up their own minds — thank you very much — and not be told who their candidates were; and these recent foxnews dramas. bill-o’s recent one, and tonite there’s a very funny youtube post of a crowd of paul supporters following and harranguing sean hannity thru a parking lot into a building. it’s hysterical.
something’s brewing….
I don’t think that Matthews has supported the Iraq war- I know that he doesn’t now.
Now, that description makes me gald we don’t get MSNBC!
She will lose gracefully and continue to contribute to public life. It’s better that way. My candidate is still JRE. There are a lot of things I like about Senator Clinton; she’s had a rough rap that is nothing of her doing. I don’t like the people she has around her, and I don’t think she would be an effective leader in the terrible times that are coming upon us. But she will be a presence for a long time, if she so chooses, and I hope she so chooses.
Muskie tried to say he wasn’t tearing up…he said it was melted snow. And he was destroyed by the media and his opposition as well. I thought it was pathetic for the media and his opponents to do then…and I still do.
BTW Can anyone tell me who won in Iowa and New Hampshire that year. Do they recall that Muskies tears came AFTER he won the primary?
That’s actually why I think that her tearing up (not crying…but restrained emotion) was authentic. It wouldn’t play to the public as her being in control. She does believe in her cause. It’s not simply to “win”. But I think that she is now regretting not being less compromising in terms of her ideals. She got played by advisers and that stole away folks that she felt would be her “natural constituency”. She played to the “middle” and other candidates filled the void on the left. So she is now suffering the consequences (and will down the road) of being something she really doesn’t feel she is.
I think Edwards really needs to be careful about his attacks on Hillary right now. The polls are showing that Obama is drawing as much support from Edwards as Obama is from Clinton.
Of course, one could suggest that Hillary sniffled in order to draw out an “inappropriate response” from Obama or Edwards. That she was REALLY nefarious. If so, Edwards fell into the trap.
And giving the finger to the American public right before he addresses the nation.
But one thing I have noted here at the Lake is most people say they support so and so but will support whom ever gets the nod at the convention!!
I’m voting for Hillary because I think it would be good for I*r**l.
Something’s brewing. I think so, too. Huckabee is the symptom on the thug side. People are getting fed up of being Pravda’d to death.
I was talking to a drug rep today at the doctor’s office. We talked about watching the back-to-back debates.
I told him I was darn glad to be a Democrat, seeing the other side’s lineup. He laughed and agreed.
It goes without saying (for me anyway) that I’ll vote for the Democrat on the ticket.
We’ve had a rash of openly weeping male Republican legislators recently up here in Alaska. It usually occurs about 30 to 45 seconds into their testimony during their sentencing hearings.
Did George Bush cry or did his voice crack when thousands of our fellow Americans were drowning in their attics in New Orleans? Nope. The man is a soulless, spineless, cowardice, lying, stinking, guitar-playing-&-eating-cake-when-Rome-is-burning, bastard.
Re it being easier to elect a black man than a woman of any color…
See Gloria Feldt’s section in the Salon article in which public figures say who their pick is. http://www.salon.com/opinion/f.....dem_picks/
Feldt says, “Racism and sexism are always joined at the head. Yet on the winding road to equality, women walk several paces behind men. Thurgood Marshall sat on the Supreme Court decades before Sandra O’Connor, and African-American men held seats in Congress generations before women had the vote.”
Crying? Two words: Duke Cunningham
Hillary deserves the same amount of respect that every other candidate deserves, no more, no less.
She does believe in her cause. It’s not simply to “win”. But I think that she is now regretting not being less compromising in terms of her ideals. She got played by advisers and that stole away folks that she felt would be her “natural constituency”. She played to the “middle” and other candidates filled the void on the left. So she is now suffering the consequences (and will down the road) of being something she really doesn’t feel she is.
Hmm sounds like Kerry doesn’t it?
I’ll go further than that. I’m caucusing for Edwards on Feb 5, will campaign for the caucus winner until the convention and will campaign for the nominee from then until the November election.
I don’t know what it takes for men to reach the heights of the likes of William Kristol or John Edwards or Joseph Biden. But I do know that they are not alone in this country, with their unacknowledged bigotry and their “there, there, Dear” patronizing. Both Obama and Clinton are being singled out for the “Old Boys” treatment: he gets the “he’s not a stereotypical black man, all dirty and uppity”; she gets the “she’s the stereotypical ball-busting uppity woman.” Although the one was meant as a compliment, and the other a put-down, they’re both results of the profound bigotry that festers beneath the surface. It’s the same bigotry that condones torture of brown people and phone tapping of “everybody else who could be a terrorist, except for me”. I’m not shocked by the media’s response to Clinton. I’d be shocked if they were otherwise. And, Jane, thank you for banging on the moribund media for their unreflexive stance. Keep fighting the good fight.
CSiM
Bah hahahahahahaha!
I agree with mrs. bonkers. I heard Hillary on NPR a few hours before that appearance, when she’d just awakened from a bus nap (you know how refreshing those are) and wondered anew how any of these folks survive the ordeal. In fact, Edwards’ incorrect response might have some of the same roots, since saying things you normally might not say correlates with exhaustion about as well as letting slip emotional expressions, you normally conceal.
But during that radio talk, when Hillary referred to something or other that had shaped her experiences, there was noticeable tightness in her voice. Having to reshape things on the fly will do that to a person, too.
God, I used to sit in Adult Ed grad courses and listen to people argue about who of them was more oppressed.
Boy Kay you are on a roll! Keep it up!
LOL
re: edwards comment, turn it around… if edwards got teary after being asked that question, what would hillary say? what would the commenters say? probably the same things.. of course, respect hillary, but sexist and patronizing, i don’t see
From coverage of the Mission Accomplished speech. Chris Matthews:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200604270005
Ouch!
Ding, ding, ding.
And the issue of AIP*C influence on US foreign policy, and Clinton’s role therein - along with Lieberman, Schumer, Emmanuel, Hoyer, etc. - in pressing for more death and wasted money in the Iraq and other ME war arenas is a key reason why I changed my support from Clinton to any Democrat but her.
On this post more generally- Jane you are right on, though for me this emotion today by Hillary actually served to humanize her a bit more in my eyes.
as bad as the men of msgobama are the women are worse
Mrs. Alan Greenspan was postively rubbing her hands with glee at the thought of the Clinton lose and was her campaign pulling out SC and wasn’t Clinton a racist bitch for doing that,
Noron Donnell also was happy to pile on. The women of CNN led by Dana let’s Basher are equally stupid
what have you got against fiddling?
In fact, she will likely be a heck of a lot more influential than she is now. First, she will have the anchor of running for President of her shoulders (unless whoever the Democratic nominee is pulls a Hindenberg) ~ so she will be able to do less triangulation. Second, she will have scads of money to help other candidates. And third, she’ll likely have some Committee Chairmanships.
Countdown/KO just put a negative spin on everything Clinton did/said today. But the examples he cited were harmless and/or legitimate comments. It’s the first time I’ve felt he was way out of line.
The emotional video that Matt Stoller featured in “Clinton’s Sincerity Moment” gives the full picture of the real Hillary Clinton. As a former resident of Plattsburgh NY. (20 miles from the Canadian border) I saw Senator Clinton’s hard work. The largely Republican area had been all but ignored by Alphonse DeMato and was suffering from the loss of an Air Force base and a depressed economy. Despite widespread local critism of her movtivation becoming a New York Senator, she put her head down and worked hard to make improvements for this area. Her office was responsive and she regularly sent replys to critical comments that defined her positions. Whether or not she is your candidate she deserves utmost respect for years of public service from Arkansas to the Senate. When she says she has the experience, it is clearly not an exaggeration.
I’ve experienced & seen mysogyny, and this seems like pretty mild stuff to me. If you want to see mysogyny, just wait & see what the Rs do if Hillary’s the candidate.
I’ll betcha Elizabeth took John to the woodshed.
And it’s only a 24-hour news cycle, when they focus on every time someone blows his/her nose.
The MSM hates her duh! We are the only friends she gots Move Left Hilary!
eCAHN, you got it going on.
oops. should have been to kay’s 69, not 55
Who could have ever imagined?
Imagine the scrutiny placed on Hillary focused upon someone appointed in office right now… one could imagine someone crying for any of the horrid statements put out there by the GOP. Huickabee’s wife disrespecting the political process in Arkansas, denying elders and ethnics the right to vote at a Little Rock poll while trying to run for office while her husband is in power. Thompson’s wife a walking poster girl for B list lobbyists. Rudy G’s ‘musical chairs wife of the month’ collection. Mitt Romney’s wife-bot. McCain’s marriagé à trois.
Republicans need plural marriages, it takes them at least three tries to get anything right.
Goldwater Grrl Hillary, the one legacy to the GOP who actually supported abortion rights(Mrs.Goldwater helped start/support Planned Parenthood).
The Passion of the Hillary,
she cries because she cares.
Hilary you can’t attack Obama without seeming anti black move Left.
Maybe HRC got frustrated and choked up, because she was having to deal with the comments Bill made that suddenly felt like a step backwards in the campaign again….he keeps making these comments that are not helpful to her campaign…
“Hatred of Women” is over the top for Edwards. I like all the dem candidates. My choice, not to be, is “Dennis the Menace”. I supported the formal women’s right movement and feminism from Gloria Steinem. I supported the the civil rights movement from when Robert Roark’s book was made into a film with Rock Hudson and Sidney Poitier (I watched it with my John Birtcher father and step mother). We got different things from it, I the plight of blacks and they probably the brutal murder of the colonialist by the Kikuyo tribe (Uhuru).
Politics is rotten. Womenn have the right to express their gender and play that card which she most emphatically did in the first NH debate. Here competitors mosrt assuredly have the right to criticise her policies and her advantages.
John Edwards gets no MSM, HRC is showered with time as is Barack.
Don’t make Hillary into the victim. It is a weak position to compete from. Give her a chance Jane.
Hope your cols is dissappearing. I think we need to try yo take the high road it is to soon to get down and dirty. our candidates have issues to sell America and the world is watching more closely than you might imagine.
I am afraid misogyny is just getting started…
Protesters Ask Clinton to Iron Shirts
Protesters Ask Clinton to Iron Shirts
Whether or not she is your candidate she deserves utmost respect for years of public service from Arkansas to the Senate.
Really? How bout if one thinks that they are all a bunch of bandits?
Re Hillary, the netroots reached out to her and was willing to work with her if she had been willing to reach out to us and respond to our issues, such as Iraq and Presidential criminality. She pretty much dismissed us. The Establishment was much more important to her. Now she has suffered a setback and may be beginning to realize she could lose this thing. If she had worked with us we would have her back now. But she didn’t and we aren’t.
Hey folks, I hope you’re all seeing KO’s opening segment on HRC. She deserves what she gets, and so does Obama. Let’s not be tempted into voting according to genitalia or skin color, but stay focused on the damn issues. The Clinton’s taught the Democratic Party to suck the corporate dick, which paved the road to where we are now. The only one in this pack that I believe in is Edwards, and the corporate media will NEVER give him a break, because he is the only one who will really roll back corporate power. And if corporae power is not rolled back, we are all heading for insect status.
KO suggesting Clinton is using karl rove as a campaign adviser. Now he’s saying she sounds like Rudy Giuliani.
And now he asks how Obama is holding up?
You better watch out for your better half they will make you behave politely! and rightly so. there are no real excuses for shit head behavior.
This thing is a mountain made of a mole hill. Truth be told, I’m doubting she actually shed a tear. Her voice trembled with some emotion.
I don’t like Hillary as a candidate, and frankly, I’m tired of the Clintons as a whole. But to describe this as tearful or hysterical is a media-manufactured falsehood.
As for Edwards’ response. Bleh, I’ll wait until I see it in context. On the surface, I’m not sure I see a whole lot of sexism in what he said. Could he have phrased it better? Prob