zed?

crying didn’t work for Muskie.

Honestly, I didn’t see her cry, meaning, I didn’t see tears running down her face while holding a wine glass and staggering all about. Her voice started cracking and I’ve heard that same kind of voice on myself when I talk about the direction of where our country is going. For a second, I could tell that Hillary was also feeling the desperation that we’ve all felt.

Amen, Jane.
This immediately raises my ire.
When I hear her called names, I just want to vote for her even more. I want her to win.

Jane, you’re picking on my man Edwards! I read his quotes and I saw competitive talk there and yes, it wasn’t very compassionate (Obama did better in that dept).

Pick on Matthews. Jeesh. He was having a field day in the men’s locker room with the hillary tears.

The tears confused me. Hillary is tough. Why cry now?

I feel dirty after watching that!

I support JRE but agree wholeheartedly with your post Jane. Have several friends who have known HC since college. They all say she is much different (when relaxed and in person) that she appears to be…a delight to be with and someone who is a treasured, funny friend.

Wish circumstances were such that she could/would allow that side to be seen.

Reading your post made me realize that one of my greatest concerns about her being President is that she would be treated so badly by so many. It would make the Bill’s days in the WH seem relatively placid.

What a sad commentary on our country.

Jane Thank you for saying this. I am for Edwards but will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee. I have been amazed and appalled at some of the things that have been said about her right here. She is not some sort of demon.
Some people here are not old enough to know what it was like when women had very few rights and they might stop for a moment and think about what a stunning thing it is that she is doing. If she is the nominee, I will support her 100% and with joy in my heart.

Doesn’t hysterical come from the idea of the “wandering uterus”? Hence only women could become hysterical because only they had uteruses. I think this is totally untrue. I have seen all of the Republican candidates and they must have uteruses then can do back flips.

I do not see Edwards’ comments (John’s that is… ) as being sexist or patronizing at all…. he simply said he’s prepared for the challenge… made no mention of male/female or or said anything patronizing.

Just said he was ready to fight for the middle class… he did not disrespect Clinton peronally.

What’s wrong with that?

And I’m sorry. Planned Parenthood and NARAL lost the right to put the “pro-choice stamp of approval” on anything when they sent out those mailers telling their members to thank Joe Lieberman for his vote to put Samuel Alito on the Supreme Court. To grant them that authority is positively ahistoric. ≈

Anyone supporting Lieberman or other members of the gang of fourteen during that time need to answer for it. Hello Wes Clark and Hillary.. both raise money in active support of self declared Anti Choice Dem, Senator Mark Pryor of Ar, in his reelection bid this year.

I agree with the respect part. Even though she voted for that disgusting Kyl/Lieberman, at least she bothered to show up, unlike Barack Obama.
I am watching Gwenn Ifill/PBS and getting more and more iritated with the “change” meme spouted by candidates, and then Gwenn Ifill says something like, “well looks like the people of New Hampshire are ready for some real change.” *Slap me across the cheek*
What they don’t say is what real change? How? Specifics. By voting for the Peru Free Trade Agreement?. Screwing the American worker in favor of corporations? Basically ignoring Edwards who came in second, and not asking questions, I am truly irritated that the media seems to feel they can make our decisions for us based on the how many times the candidate says “change.” Ifill didn’t bother to interview Edwards.

i agree, treat her with respect! The double standard stuff is almost enough to make me a Hillary supporter.

She was relating how a woman asked her, “How are YOU?” That was a compassionate question, and it kind of got to her. I think that’s why.

You are so right, Jane, Matthews has been attacking Hillary daily for at least the last year.

Muskie didn’t break down and cry. See Somerby’s post about how High Priest Broder decided to expand on the incident to fit his narrative. Two-thirds of the way down “The Great Ed Muskie Crying Incident.” http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh112807.shtml

I never heard anyone say she’s a demon. But as an agent of “change” ? For me Barack Obama and Hillary don’t cut it. (How about that Free trade agreement with Peru?)

Kay I am with you one that one. It is just wingnut hatred for all things Clinton.

We are as beyond sexism as we are racism, which is to say not at all. I disagree profoundly with Hillary Clinton on the issues. I could care less what she has in her eye.

it’s a sexist racist culture we live in. i wish we could own up to it and work at getting past it.

I’ll check it out. thanks.

Who will be first to use two words on air, “Hot Flash”? I think Tweety will beat FOX to that low.

Somewhere, Senator Edward Brooke must be chortling. You will remember that in 1969 Brooke, a moderate Republican, had the bad luck to be commencement speaker at Wellesley College on the day Hillary Rodham made a name for herself as a voice of her generation. She politely gave the first black American to be elected to the Senate since Reconstruction the back of her hand. “For too long our leaders have used politics as the art of the possible,” she said. (“This is bad?” Brooke must have been thinking.)

It was not actually anything in particular that Brooke and his ilk had done that earned Hillary’s lightly disguised contempt. It was just that they were tired and old and always looking for some way to cut a grubby deal instead of setting their sights on the impossible dream. She and her generation, she said, were “searching for a more immediate, ecstatic and penetrating mode of living.”

That is one of the most powerful questions of all time no matter where and to whom it’s asked. I say that, because years ago when I was in high school, I worked at a local pharmacy. One day an old man came in and I asked him how he was doing today, but I must have said it in a way that affected him deeply, because he took me aside and told me about his wife passing away. He shared many thoughts about her to me. The following Sunday when he came in to get the Sunday paper, he gave me some chocolate. I know it’s not much of a story, but sometimes asking that question can deeply affect someone…especially if someone is feeling “alone” at the time it’s asked.

Hillary is not my favorite, but is it possible she’s feeling a little beaten up right now?

Matthews has been attacking Hillary daily

Did you see her exchange with Chris Methane after he questioned her? I thought she did quite well handling him. Kissed his cheek and, then, dismissed him. Sort of like “Bless your heart Chris”.

I sorta predicted back in the spring of 2007 that if fdl became pre-eminently absorbed in the Dem Prez primaries and 2008 Prez race, we’d fall out, squabbling. This past week has seen increasing examples of that.

Jane isn’t squabbling – I’ve seen the same indicators she mentions. But there probably will be a lot of squabbling in the comments to this thread.

Misogyny is even more pervasive in American institutional structures than racism, and is more difficult to overcome. Just this morning, on NPR’s Morning Edition or some other program, while discussing the eclipse in Iowa of HRC by Obama, people mentioned that it is easier to elect a black man to the White House than a woman of any race. I don’t know whether or not that is true. We just elected a woman as governor of Alaska – the most faux macho state in the country.

Hillary certainly has my respect. In the world of music, they call it “paying your dues” when someone has played their music under all kinds of conditions to all kinds of audiences, and you do it because you just need to do it. Since about 1991, I think Hillary has paid her dues, many times over, and has been pummeled by her foes, and sometimes even by her friends. For all that, she has my respect. She has actually learned to like being on the campaign trail, and fielding questions from members of the audience. And she often does a good job of connecting with them on a personal level (certainly much better than John Kerry ever did.)

However, she is not my preferred candidate because of her votes on war and peace issues, and civil rights issues (see Progressive Punch). On those issues, she ranks in the bottom 20 among Democratic senators. We can do better.

Bob in HI

Actually maybe I am inclined to be soft on Edwards, especially since he could have been a little harried when the question was asked. Hillary didn’t strike me as weak, she looked beautiful. She put on no false accent (which bothers me when she does), and she sounded honest. That still doesn’t excuse the Kyl/Lieberman vote, the lack of support for Dodd, and the Free trade love.

I support Edwards too. He doesn’t get a free pass to say that if Hillary gets emotional she is unfit for leadership.

I agree 100% with you. As a female, who has cried at work, I understand. And let me say, 80% of my adult tears are of frustration, not sadness. I am not planning to vote for Hillary, but this makes me sorely want to.

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET THESE IMBECILES OUT OF MSM? I am going to cry again — out of frustration. LOL

Didn’t Bill Frist cry on the floor of the Senate when talking about Terri Schiavo? How come it was okay to do that! Spit.

I grew up with four sister and they made sure I respected girls. I have never that girls aren’t Smart enough, tough enough or what ever. Women are just as capable as men and when I see “the boys” treating women poorly I just get pissed off. You wouldn’t want to disparage any of my female acquaintances with me in the room I don’t stand for it. Plain and simple. If more men would stand up for women we might not hear about so many atrocities being done to our ladies.

Since when is treating Presidential candidates with respect the norm? Think of the folks that have been ’slimed’ over the last two elections in general. On both sides.

YES

I agree. My point was that she is breaking ground that the next generation won’t have to even if she loses. She is taking a daily smearing and keeps going. Women have done that since the beginning and she deserves credit for her fortitude. She’s tough.

Well both Chris Matthews and Tim Russert act like a bunch of preverts eyeing a school girl during the debate or whenever the discussion is about Hillary. They’re sick!

All these “candidates” say any goddamn thing they want about each other during campaigns and then do that bullshit ” my friend” after the election. It’s all fucking bullshit. Don’t mean nuthin.

When first watching Hillary today, I thought simply that is was fake, much like the Rep. Boner “Crying Game.”

My wife says it looks real to her, and it probably came out because of being so tired. My wife is usually correct, so I’ll believe that it’s real.

John Boehner cries all the time.

I think that Hillary’s emotion was genuine- she had no reason to tear up- it won’t help her- and if she was fakin she should be in Hollywood- few are that good at acting.

Seemed like a candid and sincere moment.

What about Boehner cryin’ all the time…Didn’t Nixon cry in his Checkers speech? Freakin’ hypocrites…

When first watching Hillary today, I thought simply that is was fake, much like the Rep. Boner “Crying Game.”

Oh no, she wouldn’t do that would she?

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/13/boehner-weeps/

Heck, John Boehner cries 100 proof tears on the floor of the House every time he needs to recycle his last martini.

That’s right and Bonkers just mentioned @38 Rep. Boner drunk and crying on the floor of the House!

See? Lots of male babies in the republican party who use their tears not in a genuine way. ;-)

Exactly. LOL!

This should cheer you all up:

Sunday’s Golden Globe Awards ceremony has been canceled and replaced with a news conference amid the Hollywood writers’ strike.

drunk and weak.

You forgot stupid.

I forgot bad hair, too.

1. There were no tears. There was a certain shakiness of the voice that people have when they feel something deeply.

2. Yes she is tough, but she is also human. The schedule has been grueling, and she may actually believe in what she is doing. (I’m surprised about that a bit, but there you are.)

3. She’s not my candidate either (to the extent that a Canadian can have a dog in the race) but I do have some respect for her.

Uh oh. What’s Sally Field gonna do?

Bob Schacht – i don’t know if you saw my comment – it got epu’d at the end of the last thread. Even though I’ve been in favor of impeachment, I really didn’t see what the point of it was. So I REALLY appreciate your taking the time to lay it out in the last thread. It’s the first explanation I’ve seen that’s invitingly readable and shows why it completely makes sense. I’ve saved it. Again, real gratitude.

Matthews was one of the first to crown Hillary the inevitable Democratic candidate. Just like he was a big supporter of the Iraq war, drooling as he did over Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” speech. Now he is ripping Hillary and to hear him tell it a big time critic of the Iraq war. He’s just a bubbleheaded weasel. He occasionally has lucid moments but they never last more than a few minutes. Then it is back to the news as a clown show.

And what about Jimmy Swaggert? And the time Jim Baker was handcuffed and crying on the way to the police car?

And what about the time George Bush was smirking, laughing, and pushing his eyebrows up and down at his staff and having a fun ole time right before he announced that American troops were bombing Iraq? Oh wait. He wasn’t crying, now was he? Bastard.

I hear Georgie Pordgie cries too, maybe his uterus is slightly askew… oh, gross. Never mind.

….and had a wet leather face.

I am watching Gwenn Ifill/PBS and getting more and more iritated with the “change” meme spouted by candidates,

and just a few minutes ago, a segment on hardball counted the times the word ‘change’ was used by the candidates in the last debate.

don’t tell me the rnc doesn’t guide the wdc chattermonkeys’ talking points.

this media coverage really is repulsive. and there are increasing signs of people being really fed up and acting on it. a few days ago in comments here, someone remarked how an iowa crowd reacted (positively, loudly, pointedly) to bill richardson’s comments that the american people will make up their own minds — thank you very much — and not be told who their candidates were; and these recent foxnews dramas. bill-o’s recent one, and tonite there’s a very funny youtube post of a crowd of paul supporters following and harranguing sean hannity thru a parking lot into a building. it’s hysterical.

something’s brewing….

I don’t think that Matthews has supported the Iraq war- I know that he doesn’t now.

Now, that description makes me gald we don’t get MSNBC!

She will lose gracefully and continue to contribute to public life. It’s better that way. My candidate is still JRE. There are a lot of things I like about Senator Clinton; she’s had a rough rap that is nothing of her doing. I don’t like the people she has around her, and I don’t think she would be an effective leader in the terrible times that are coming upon us. But she will be a presence for a long time, if she so chooses, and I hope she so chooses.

Muskie tried to say he wasn’t tearing up…he said it was melted snow. And he was destroyed by the media and his opposition as well. I thought it was pathetic for the media and his opponents to do then…and I still do.

BTW Can anyone tell me who won in Iowa and New Hampshire that year. Do they recall that Muskies tears came AFTER he won the primary?

That’s actually why I think that her tearing up (not crying…but restrained emotion) was authentic. It wouldn’t play to the public as her being in control. She does believe in her cause. It’s not simply to “win”. But I think that she is now regretting not being less compromising in terms of her ideals. She got played by advisers and that stole away folks that she felt would be her “natural constituency”. She played to the “middle” and other candidates filled the void on the left. So she is now suffering the consequences (and will down the road) of being something she really doesn’t feel she is.

I think Edwards really needs to be careful about his attacks on Hillary right now. The polls are showing that Obama is drawing as much support from Edwards as Obama is from Clinton.

Of course, one could suggest that Hillary sniffled in order to draw out an “inappropriate response” from Obama or Edwards. That she was REALLY nefarious. If so, Edwards fell into the trap.

And what about the time George Bush was smirking, laughing, and pushing his eyebrows up and down at his staff and having a fun ole time right before he announced that American troops were bombing Iraq? Oh wait. He wasn’t crying, now was he? Bastard.

And giving the finger to the American public right before he addresses the nation.

But one thing I have noted here at the Lake is most people say they support so and so but will support whom ever gets the nod at the convention!!

I’m voting for Hillary because I think it would be good for I*r**l.

Something’s brewing. I think so, too. Huckabee is the symptom on the thug side. People are getting fed up of being Pravda’d to death.

I was talking to a drug rep today at the doctor’s office. We talked about watching the back-to-back debates.
I told him I was darn glad to be a Democrat, seeing the other side’s lineup. He laughed and agreed.

It goes without saying (for me anyway) that I’ll vote for the Democrat on the ticket.

We’ve had a rash of openly weeping male Republican legislators recently up here in Alaska. It usually occurs about 30 to 45 seconds into their testimony during their sentencing hearings.

Did George Bush cry or did his voice crack when thousands of our fellow Americans were drowning in their attics in New Orleans? Nope. The man is a soulless, spineless, cowardice, lying, stinking, guitar-playing-&-eating-cake-when-Rome-is-burning, bastard.

Re it being easier to elect a black man than a woman of any color…

See Gloria Feldt’s section in the Salon article in which public figures say who their pick is. http://www.salon.com/opinion/f…..dem_picks/

Feldt says, “Racism and sexism are always joined at the head. Yet on the winding road to equality, women walk several paces behind men. Thurgood Marshall sat on the Supreme Court decades before Sandra O’Connor, and African-American men held seats in Congress generations before women had the vote.”

Crying? Two words: Duke Cunningham

Hillary deserves the same amount of respect that every other candidate deserves, no more, no less.

She does believe in her cause. It’s not simply to “win”. But I think that she is now regretting not being less compromising in terms of her ideals. She got played by advisers and that stole away folks that she felt would be her “natural constituency”. She played to the “middle” and other candidates filled the void on the left. So she is now suffering the consequences (and will down the road) of being something she really doesn’t feel she is.

Hmm sounds like Kerry doesn’t it?

I’ll go further than that. I’m caucusing for Edwards on Feb 5, will campaign for the caucus winner until the convention and will campaign for the nominee from then until the November election.

I don’t know what it takes for men to reach the heights of the likes of William Kristol or John Edwards or Joseph Biden. But I do know that they are not alone in this country, with their unacknowledged bigotry and their “there, there, Dear” patronizing. Both Obama and Clinton are being singled out for the “Old Boys” treatment: he gets the “he’s not a stereotypical black man, all dirty and uppity”; she gets the “she’s the stereotypical ball-busting uppity woman.” Although the one was meant as a compliment, and the other a put-down, they’re both results of the profound bigotry that festers beneath the surface. It’s the same bigotry that condones torture of brown people and phone tapping of “everybody else who could be a terrorist, except for me”. I’m not shocked by the media’s response to Clinton. I’d be shocked if they were otherwise. And, Jane, thank you for banging on the moribund media for their unreflexive stance. Keep fighting the good fight.
CSiM

Bah hahahahahahaha!

I agree with mrs. bonkers. I heard Hillary on NPR a few hours before that appearance, when she’d just awakened from a bus nap (you know how refreshing those are) and wondered anew how any of these folks survive the ordeal. In fact, Edwards’ incorrect response might have some of the same roots, since saying things you normally might not say correlates with exhaustion about as well as letting slip emotional expressions, you normally conceal.

But during that radio talk, when Hillary referred to something or other that had shaped her experiences, there was noticeable tightness in her voice. Having to reshape things on the fly will do that to a person, too.

God, I used to sit in Adult Ed grad courses and listen to people argue about who of them was more oppressed.

Boy Kay you are on a roll! Keep it up!

LOL

re: edwards comment, turn it around… if edwards got teary after being asked that question, what would hillary say? what would the commenters say? probably the same things.. of course, respect hillary, but sexist and patronizing, i don’t see

I don’t think that Matthews has supported the Iraq war- I know that he doesn’t now.

From coverage of the Mission Accomplished speech. Chris Matthews:

He won the war. He was an effective commander. Everybody recognizes that, I believe, except a few critics.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200604270005

Hmm sounds like Kerry doesn’t it?

Ouch!

Ding, ding, ding.

And the issue of AIP*C influence on US foreign policy, and Clinton’s role therein – along with Lieberman, Schumer, Emmanuel, Hoyer, etc. – in pressing for more death and wasted money in the Iraq and other ME war arenas is a key reason why I changed my support from Clinton to any Democrat but her.

On this post more generally- Jane you are right on, though for me this emotion today by Hillary actually served to humanize her a bit more in my eyes.

as bad as the men of msgobama are the women are worse
Mrs. Alan Greenspan was postively rubbing her hands with glee at the thought of the Clinton lose and was her campaign pulling out SC and wasn’t Clinton a racist bitch for doing that,

Noron Donnell also was happy to pile on. The women of CNN led by Dana let’s Basher are equally stupid

what have you got against fiddling?

She will lose gracefully and continue to contribute to public life. It’s better that way. My candidate is still JRE. There are a lot of things I like about Senator Clinton; she’s had a rough rap that is nothing of her doing. I don’t like the people she has around her, and I don’t think she would be an effective leader in the terrible times that are coming upon us. But she will be a presence for a long time, if she so chooses, and I hope she so chooses.

In fact, she will likely be a heck of a lot more influential than she is now. First, she will have the anchor of running for President of her shoulders (unless whoever the Democratic nominee is pulls a Hindenberg) ~ so she will be able to do less triangulation. Second, she will have scads of money to help other candidates. And third, she’ll likely have some Committee Chairmanships.

Countdown/KO just put a negative spin on everything Clinton did/said today. But the examples he cited were harmless and/or legitimate comments. It’s the first time I’ve felt he was way out of line.

The emotional video that Matt Stoller featured in “Clinton’s Sincerity Moment” gives the full picture of the real Hillary Clinton. As a former resident of Plattsburgh NY. (20 miles from the Canadian border) I saw Senator Clinton’s hard work. The largely Republican area had been all but ignored by Alphonse DeMato and was suffering from the loss of an Air Force base and a depressed economy. Despite widespread local critism of her movtivation becoming a New York Senator, she put her head down and worked hard to make improvements for this area. Her office was responsive and she regularly sent replys to critical comments that defined her positions. Whether or not she is your candidate she deserves utmost respect for years of public service from Arkansas to the Senate. When she says she has the experience, it is clearly not an exaggeration.

I’ve experienced & seen mysogyny, and this seems like pretty mild stuff to me. If you want to see mysogyny, just wait & see what the Rs do if Hillary’s the candidate.

I’ll betcha Elizabeth took John to the woodshed.

And it’s only a 24-hour news cycle, when they focus on every time someone blows his/her nose.

The MSM hates her duh! We are the only friends she gots Move Left Hilary!

eCAHN, you got it going on.

oops. should have been to kay’s 69, not 55

Who could have ever imagined?

Imagine the scrutiny placed on Hillary focused upon someone appointed in office right now… one could imagine someone crying for any of the horrid statements put out there by the GOP. Huickabee’s wife disrespecting the political process in Arkansas, denying elders and ethnics the right to vote at a Little Rock poll while trying to run for office while her husband is in power. Thompson’s wife a walking poster girl for B list lobbyists. Rudy G’s ‘musical chairs wife of the month’ collection. Mitt Romney’s wife-bot. McCain’s marriagé à trois.

Republicans need plural marriages, it takes them at least three tries to get anything right.

Goldwater Grrl Hillary, the one legacy to the GOP who actually supported abortion rights(Mrs.Goldwater helped start/support Planned Parenthood).
The Passion of the Hillary,
she cries because she cares.

Hilary you can’t attack Obama without seeming anti black move Left.

Maybe HRC got frustrated and choked up, because she was having to deal with the comments Bill made that suddenly felt like a step backwards in the campaign again….he keeps making these comments that are not helpful to her campaign…

“Hatred of Women” is over the top for Edwards. I like all the dem candidates. My choice, not to be, is “Dennis the Menace”. I supported the formal women’s right movement and feminism from Gloria Steinem. I supported the the civil rights movement from when Robert Roark’s book was made into a film with Rock Hudson and Sidney Poitier (I watched it with my John Birtcher father and step mother). We got different things from it, I the plight of blacks and they probably the brutal murder of the colonialist by the Kikuyo tribe (Uhuru).
Politics is rotten. Womenn have the right to express their gender and play that card which she most emphatically did in the first NH debate. Here competitors mosrt assuredly have the right to criticise her policies and her advantages.
John Edwards gets no MSM, HRC is showered with time as is Barack.
Don’t make Hillary into the victim. It is a weak position to compete from. Give her a chance Jane.
Hope your cols is dissappearing. I think we need to try yo take the high road it is to soon to get down and dirty. our candidates have issues to sell America and the world is watching more closely than you might imagine.

I am afraid misogyny is just getting started…

Protesters Ask Clinton to Iron Shirts

Protesters Ask Clinton to Iron Shirts

SALEM, N.H. (AP) – Hillary Rodham Clinton’s campaign stop was interrupted on Monday when two men stood in the crowd and began screaming, “Iron my shirt!” during one the New York senator’s final appearances before New Hampshire voters cast primary ballots Tuesday.

Clinton, a former first lady running to become the nation’s first female president, laughed at the seemingly sexist protest that suggested a woman’s place is doing the laundry and not running the country.

“Ah, the remnants of sexism – alive and well,” Clinton said to applause in a school auditorium.

The two men were removed from the hall after raising a pair of signs that said, “iron my shirt!” They also shouted the same slogan.

Whether or not she is your candidate she deserves utmost respect for years of public service from Arkansas to the Senate.

Really? How bout if one thinks that they are all a bunch of bandits?

Re Hillary, the netroots reached out to her and was willing to work with her if she had been willing to reach out to us and respond to our issues, such as Iraq and Presidential criminality. She pretty much dismissed us. The Establishment was much more important to her. Now she has suffered a setback and may be beginning to realize she could lose this thing. If she had worked with us we would have her back now. But she didn’t and we aren’t.

Hey folks, I hope you’re all seeing KO’s opening segment on HRC. She deserves what she gets, and so does Obama. Let’s not be tempted into voting according to genitalia or skin color, but stay focused on the damn issues. The Clinton’s taught the Democratic Party to suck the corporate dick, which paved the road to where we are now. The only one in this pack that I believe in is Edwards, and the corporate media will NEVER give him a break, because he is the only one who will really roll back corporate power. And if corporae power is not rolled back, we are all heading for insect status.

KO suggesting Clinton is using karl rove as a campaign adviser. Now he’s saying she sounds like Rudy Giuliani.

And now he asks how Obama is holding up?

You better watch out for your better half they will make you behave politely! and rightly so. there are no real excuses for shit head behavior.

This thing is a mountain made of a mole hill. Truth be told, I’m doubting she actually shed a tear. Her voice trembled with some emotion.

I don’t like Hillary as a candidate, and frankly, I’m tired of the Clintons as a whole. But to describe this as tearful or hysterical is a media-manufactured falsehood.

As for Edwards’ response. Bleh, I’ll wait until I see it in context. On the surface, I’m not sure I see a whole lot of sexism in what he said. Could he have phrased it better? Probably. Until I see it for myself, I’m not sure what to think.

Ignore the MSM they hate you. Ignore the 30%ers they will never love you. We 705ers need a champion out left Edwards and move to the majority!

I have noticed the ratcheting-up of the Clinton-hate – indeed, I expected it. It pissed me off when Bill Clinton was President and it pisses me off now. I’m an Edwards supporter – I know he’s not perfect; but he speaks to what’s important to me. I’m not a supporter of Hillary as far as her being my first choice – she’s simply too far away from my viewpoint policy-wisen for me to support. That being said, I think she was dead-on about the ‘vast right-wing conspiracy’, and I think she’s not being given a fair shake. She’s criticized no matter what she does, and it’s usually petty, personal and something that a man wouldn’t be criticized for.

Like ET, I’m supporting Edwards, and then I will get behind whoever the Dem nominee is. I still think that the worst of ours is light-years better than the best of theirs.

Olbermann’s coverage of Clinton tonight was every bit as vicious as what one would expect from Fox News. JMO.

My dislike for Hillary stemmed from my dislike for Bill. Starting with the 1992 primaries, and going to many events where he spoke, I thought he was such an insincere ass that was constantly talking down to everyone there, and he always had this smirk like he was thinking, “Suckerz!”

I was hoping Hillary would be more real, but she seems even worse than Bill in this respect. My eye roll today when seeing Hillary came from this belief, just like I’ve done every time I’ve seen the obviously fake “cries” from Boner, Frist, etc., and not because I thought, “See, women can’t lead…they’re too emotional” or some other sexist idea. Again though, my wife thinks today was real so it probably was.

She has been playing people for years and years. Wonder if she knows the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf?

It is disturbing to see the overt sexism from some about this though…

Apparently the only appropriate role of a women in preidential politics is wife

Scarecrow _ I think someone gave KO Tweety’s dose of Kool Aid today.

How did John McCain get a boost from Iowa? I thought Grandpa Fred beat him
when does fourth get a boost? the MSM still has the power to move things or do they New Hampshire votes will be the test.

Can’t speak for anyone else, but I get teary when I’m angry and feel powerless. Don’t know if that’s what’s hitting Hillary, but it is not a good feeling and for me, not very controllable.

Yes KO has pissed me off uckhead traitor

A moment of humanity – what Hillary’s critics have asked for – and you see what happens.

The field isn’t level at all…

First of all I’d like to thank the NYT for giving me one more column to laugh at besides MODO on the op ed page. They have installed Kristol as a humor columnist. I look forward to many grins from Kristol. He’s a poster child for how hysterical and desparate the Repub/Rethugs have become.

Second ofall, I’d like to thank Hillary Clinton for morphing into Rudy 912 before my eyes over the weekend. HRC has now incorporated the fear card into her speeches as she sees double digit defeat looming in the next few states onto 23 state Tuesday. The Hillster is parroting the Rove/Gillespie playbook the eve of her double digit defeat in NH.

Many of us who do not want Hillary near the White House contrary to popular belief do not look at her work so far in any kind of gender persepctive. It just does not have a thing to do with her being a woman. And many of us have seen more than enough of Tweety Mathews and Mornin’ Joe Scarborough to filter their ridiculous comments. They make a lot of them every time they hit the airwaves.

I’m wondering what Hillary is going to do with her $100 million or so raised before her doners started pulling back, and more African Americans moved to vote for Obama. Will she do the sensible thing and give the money to the Obama campaign, and get her ass back in the Senate to do something that would be truly unique for her.

She wants change she says. She wants to fight for you. Let’s see her fight to get Telco Comco immunity out of S. 2248 on the floor of the Senate. That’s what she should do. Let’s see her stand up to Reid.

If you look at her votes they have been Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush whatever Bush wants to do. Her voting record supports Bush.

Here’s what she will do. She’s going to continue to rack up double digit losses in every state including the 23 on Feb. 5 so-called Super Tuesday.

I don’t have a better half, so I can behave anyway I want!

But John must certainly mind his P&Qs around Elizabeth, I’d guess.

Thank God for this posting. I have had it up to here with the crap Hillary is taking.

Damnit – she is qualified to be POTUS of one of the most important and powerful countries in the world.

I’m thinking about voting for her as a TR to all of you who have made her your punching bag – ESPECIALLY if you’re taking pot shots at her for being a woman.

Thank God for us!!!

Clinton’s response should be to simply say that if shedding tears is good enough for the Senate leader of the Republicans then it should be just fine with her. Besides, haven’t pundits been criticizing her over the years for not showing any emotion? If not, then why should she give a damn about what they are saying now if they’re not going to stand by what they’ve said in the past?

God, it’s like Gore-bashing all over again… “Who would you rather have a beer with?” As opposed to: “Who do you think won’t lead us down to the 7th circle of hell like Bush?”

I really despise men like that. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been called a “butch” online by the trolls, because I don’t support George Bush and his atrocious agenda. Apparently being chained to a washing machine is feminine to these Cro Magnums.

Five weeks ago, when HRC seemed all but inevitable, a lot of commentators were far more kind to her. But the combination of Obama’s IA victory, and seeing her on the ropes since, has brought the bloodlust out in a lot of craven pundits from all across the political spectrum. And it isn’t just the male pundits.

This recent major dissing of HRC is interesting in that if one gauges the gulf between how much a pundit sucked up to HRC’s image for inevitability five weeks ago to what he or she is saying about HRC now, is to measure the size of that journalist or commentator’s intellectual dishonesty.

There’s a lot of pent-up resentment against HRC, and people in the media who feel that way are outdoing themselves in attempts to finish her campaign off tomorrow.

This, on the other hand, is pretty much unforgivable. It doesn’t exactly cause me to have bounds of sympathy for Hillary Clinton, the best Republican in the Democratic primary race.

You should vote the way you feel, but it will be part of the tally of a double digit loss.

Disappointingly, KO wasn’t much, if any, better tha Tweety tonight. KO
embarassed himself tonight. Tomorrow night KO might consider naming himself as The Worst Person in the World.

Apparently being chained to a washing machine is feminine to these Cro Magnums.
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Yea. I’d like to see them get their tits caught in a ringer.

Cro Magnums

i like it.

We need to remember that this is not over. We have a way to go and Super Tuesday will tell the tale and it’s not very far away. It’s still an open field and anyone could win – well, probably not Duncan Hunter.

Please, consider my vote your own personal TR.

I’m honored to have the opportunity to consider it.

Thanks very much. I moved so I got my voter registration in one minute before they closed. I consider it a prodigious omen.

I’m not backing off my support of Edwards. There have been a lot of slings and arrows exchanged and this was more of the same. And to switch allegiance from one candidate to another based on one remark in the course of a 36 hour marathon where they’re basically criticizing each other’s records and reliability? Seems silly.

That said, I watched the clip of Clinton, and she didn’t seem weak or hysterical. She seemed deeply concerned, as she said, for the direction of our country. I liked her better for her emotion. Good for Hillary.

And recall who advised Kerry not to back away from their votes for the Iraq Authorization Resolution? But Kerry didn’t have any $$$ left over. There are better comparisons…Teddy Kennedy.

And another who swung to the left after losing a Presidential election was a fellow named Gore.

LOL Hell, I’d like to see those assholes do the laundry for once!

LOL I just noticed the error of my way. ;-) Was it a Freudian slip? Oopsie. *blushing*

What is “TR”?

I have been wavering between Barac and Duncan. Hunter is so qualified to understand the legal nuances of DOJ criminality and coverup. He reeks sophistication.

And boy if Edwards wants to really sink his teeth into some corrupt hides including DOJ, then he’ll accept the appointment of AG. I can see Hatch, Cornyn, and Sessions just salivatin’ to confirm him.

To add to my comment – one of my problems with Clinton has been my sense that she has this huge ambition for the White House, and that is her overwhelming motivation.

In today’s clip, I got another feeling. I felt that she really thinks she is the best one for the job. She should find a way of communicating this more – it could help her.

I thought it was snark. I really do like it that way.

Oh well, I am glad I do. But everyone has to make their own choices and no one should say anything about some ones choices. Unless the choices are destructive for them.

he could always be a recess appointment if hatch and my very own cornyn critter don’t want him.

Thats not even funny:) My mother did get her hand and wrist in one of them old ringer washers, my dad was upset by that incident as he was taking her to the emergency room.

hey eCAHN, happy skiing tomorrow.

I can do that one. It’s Teddy Roosevelt. Bill said Hill was Franklin to his Teddy. But Bill and Ron Burkle get Teddyies on the mind every time they fire up the Gulfstream.

But for chrissakes, treat the woman with respect.

fat chance.
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It sounds like the media are doing the ’scream’ treatment on Hillary, only doing about her emotions. Dean was emotional that night, and tired, and so is Hillary. I respect her personally, and professionally (if not on issues and voting) and we should be more respectful.

I wish her the best and truly hope she goes back to the Senate to do the job we all know she is very good at. Policy.

Disappointingly, KO wasn’t much, if any, better tha Tweety tonight. KO
embarassed himself tonight. Tomorrow night KO might consider naming himself as The Worst Person in the World.

Maybe he can explain this away as the result of the Writers Strike…not funny.

Or maybe he’s actually playing his deepest form of satire…the blood-lusty MSM right-wing pundit?

If you try to post anything intelligent on a Rethug cite’s thread, name calling is the rapid response. They don’t even stop for seven minutes to read “The Little Goat.”

I kind of wish Elizabeth Edwards were on the ballot. Of the three, Edwards’ positions are closest to my own, but sometimes I get the feeling that she has much better instincts than he does.

I respect her to a degree. I just don’t want her as President because I’ve watched her performance o key votes in the Senate and her real lack of initative in taking Bush on and she’s been in the US Senate where she could have.

She has no idea whatsoever how to get out of Iraq. She’s done nothing thus far in the Senate to move one Iota towards stopping the slaughter of Americans in Iraq and Iraqis in Iraq.

I haven’t heard one word out of Hill’s mouth acknowledging the plight of refugees in a tent who can’t work, where the women go out at night to bring food into their kids mouth by hooking in the suburbs of Jordan.

I don’t see Hillary and Chelsea surving well as refugees in Jordan who can’t get work.

Ditto. What you said, CarolynU.

I don’t recall seeing John or his wife Elizabeth tearing up very much at the prospect of facing death. If there was something worth crying about, it’s the idea of losing one’s wife and the mother of your children. Yet the media made a bunch of droning noises about John’s suitability because of this situation. He and Elizabeth handled it all gracefully.

It’s a little late for HRC to be emotional, IMO; maybe when the press was going after her husband for his infidelities, had she been more vulnerable, we might not be having this discussion now. Or perhaps at the horrors that this administration has wrought, she could have been a bit more exposed. To be so emotionally shut off and only now, on the eve of NH primary, to seem so vulnerable seems extremely odd. The f*cking television asshats like Matthews are being their usually ignorant selves, but their mouthing off is an expression of their confusion and discomfort at this display.

Jeebus, that we’re having this conversation at all about HRC is bizarre; of all people, she should understand this feature of American male-centric politics:

When Former Bill Clinton cried in public, most observers noted his tenderness as an admirable quality. But when presidential candidate Pat Schroeder cried in public it was seen as “proof” that she wasn’t “tough enough” to be president.

Boener was crying because he couldn’t get Vitter’s phone numbers.

one of my problems with Clinton has been my sense that she has this huge ambition for the White House, and that is her overwhelming motivation.

I suppose she is the only one running with that condition…like chief republican loon mccain wouldn’t butcher his own children if it would assure him the White House; as if Edwards hasn’t been running for 3 years already; as if Obama didn’t suck up to vitriolic violent gay bashers, theocrats, corportists, and every other anti-progressive whack pack willing to listen to him; as if romney and ghouliani haven’t been trying to out-psycho each other in an effort to excite the sociopathic violentists republican base; and on and on. Why is ambition for the White House only a character fault of HRC.
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Evening folks. I am surprised that Amanda Marcotte withdrew her support for Edwards on the basis of a single comment made in the heat of a political campaign at a moment when he is fighting for survival.

As far as male enlightenment, I think John Edwards is about as enlightened a candidate as you’ll ever see. His remarks on women’s issues are nothing short of extraordinary. I’ve seen him go on for 10 minutes straight, off-the-cuff, about women’s issues. There is nothing sexist about this man. To the contrary, he paid Hillary the extreme compliment of treating her just like he would treat any other candidate in the competition. They’re all in this to win, and I don’t see any of them giving up an opportunity to take advantage of a situation, whatever that situation may be. As someone who marched for the ERA and who’s seen sexism up close and personal, I don’t see John’s remark as sexist.

grayslady, that is what I thought when I heard Edwards’s remark. I also thought that maybe it is the filter of my own male privilege that makes me not see any sexism in it.

You are so right Jane, Tweety seems to get off by putting Hilliary down. It’s a side of him that is truly discussing. As for Scarborough, he’s nothing more than the anus of MSNBC. Makes you wonder how they treat the women in their lives, all of them,mothers, daughters, sisters.

Or it sees HRC as she really performs in the Senate.

KO running the Faux hunt!!

I’m sticking with Edwards too. Still.

I thought Tucker came in first in the anus of MSNBC competition two years in a row.

when I saw the clip of Hillary choking up, I felt she was talking directly to me. Since before the 2000 election I’ve been watching everything going on. I’ve ranted and raved and cried and screamed. I knew exactly what she was saying. We all knew what she was talking about. We’ve all seen it for more than 7 years now. I felt her frustration that it was so important that no one else could be trusted to stop this. I didn’t know whether to vote for Hillary, Obama or Edwards. They would all be fantastic. Hillary and I connected today, and I support her totally! She made it so clear that she saw what I’ve been seeing! Hard to explain, but she reached me today!

I haven’t trusted Marcotte’s judgment since the Donohue incident. Granted, Donohue is a one-man Christianist freak-show, but bloggers working for a campaign cannot effectively put their identities and egos out in front of a candidate’s brand and not expect their personal opinions to affect the candidate’s brand.

If you’re attuned enough to wonder about it, you’re not sexist. Someone who is truly sexist, like a Chris Matthews, is clueless.

I thought that was going to be a clip of the tear we’ve been promised. I actually loved the way she handled Matthews. So sweet and friendly, as if to say “don’t take it personal when I give you the back of my hand.”

I wish women were leading the military and the government. I hope to see a male or female Secretary of Defense crying up at the podium when talking about troop deaths and “collateral damage” and then making the case why they feel it’s necessary.

It’s just that Hillary’s not the one. Pelosi had promise. There are many other women I would enthusiastically support for these positions, but not Hillary.

She was just showing the deep conviction of her felling about this country. I like Edwards but if she wins the nomination I will support her. I am mostly worried if does get the nomination the crazies will be coming out of the woodwork. And talk about swiftboating they will be lies about her coming from every direction and the MSM will be licking it all up and plastering all over the place.

Agree. With so much at stake, Amanda demonstrates a lack of seriousness with that little irrational hissyfit.
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It was the first time I was disappointed in Olberman. I had to leave the room and come to FDL…although the last few days of comments bashing HRC did not make me feel too warm about this blog. I hadn’t even decided to support her and found, in the wake of the truly vicious comments, myself coming to her defense. You know, two or three or more posts back, she could have walked on water, raised Lazarus from the dead, and fed 50,000 with a few fish and loaves of bread and the comments would have been FRAUD, CHICANERY, etc.

First, she did not cry. Her voice cracked when someone in the audience asked her a caring question. I think Hillary is like most women, me included, who can take it on the chin with any number of attacks and give as good as she got, but when something caring or solicitous is said after such frequent drubbings, it is so unexpected and can cause a near meltdown.
All the brouhaha on MSM about her crying is definitely anti woman.

Except for getting the immediate news (I mean results), I don’t want to watch the tube anymore. Right now I am reading Charlie Wilson’s War, Ghost War, Chalmers Johnson’s last book in his trilogy, and going to Juan Cole’s blog daily. This keeps me sane.

Thank you, Jane, for this post. It brought back to me the value of your writings and a better feeling about FDL.

Hillary Clinton is my least favorite Democratic candidate because she is the biggest hawk and Bush enabler. However, I love her compared to any of the Republicans. I question whether Edwards’s words (which are surrounded by very loaded editorial content by ABC news people) had anything to do with his feelings about Hillary “event”. My guess is that the quote is taken out of context. At the very least, the report of what he said is very obviously meant to cast him in a certain light: “Edwards offered little sympathy and pounced on the opportunity to question Clinton’s ability to endure the stresses of the presidency“. Who knows what version of the story, if any, he was even responding to.

Aw shit another typo fingers just don’t follow all my direction! “felling” should have been “feeling”
Boy does that make a difference.

I haven’t trusted Marcotte’s judgment since the Donohue incident. Granted, Donohue is a one-man Christianist freak-show, but bloggers working for a campaign cannot effectively put their identities and egos out in front of a candidate’s brand and not expect their personal opinions to affect the candidate’s brand.

Sadly, as a friend of mine (a progressive, and a feminist to boot) learned when she banned him from commenting on Pandagon, Amanda tends to treat any male disagreement with her, no matter how mild, on feminist issues as misogyny.

Truthfully, I find her mostly unreadable, though I love Pam Spaulding.

I can tell you what most women feel about Iraq. None of my babies near it, ever and screw anything else.

I thought Tucker came in first in the anus of MSNBC competition two years in a row.

This is a tough competition. But I would have to nominate Pat Buchanan as General Electric TeeVee, most heinous Anus.

I am sure of that and as a dad I feel the same way. they are worth much to much to me. My 26 year old son almost enlisted after 911 and we had a long talk. I haver never trusted GW and i never will!

Thank you Jane.

I am very disappoited in Edward’s response, to the point where I am seriously rethinking my support for him. I have worked on numerous campaigns and have regularly gotten emotional because I care and because of exhaustion. None of these examples have ever come close to the amount of stress that presidential cadidates face.

Unfortunately, too may other bloggers are choosig to cover this like a horse race and not holding the campaigns accountable to a larger progressive vision. We want candidates with passion.

I think in the end this will help Hillary and hurt Edwards, but it is sad that it has come to this.

Thanks again.

I think Amanda Marcotte is a great writer. She is also definitely mercurial.

No big deal to me on the Clinton crying thing. It will impact what other voters think. For me her comments against Obama (bad MLK) and Edwards (ambulance chases on the internet for dead 17 year old girls) were FAR worse.

As for Edwards comments not sure – I don’t expect him to offer a shoulder to cry on seeing as how they are competing against eachother. In addition I think if Obama or Rudy were to cry there would be a hell of a lot more pile on. I think its fine to cry, but I do not think Edwards statement is gender bashing.

Olbermann’s coverage of Clinton tonight was every bit as vicious as what one would expect from Fox News. JMO.

it just kills me that Clinton is portrayed as so calculating and manufactered… and yet, she’s not allowed to get angry, she’s not allowed to be tired or vaguely emotional or touched or something without being accused of being a fake…

I’m just really sick of it.

To bad people did not give Edwards some support for being the candidate that MSM won’t cover.

Clinton cries, Edwards says this and Oh No… its all over!

“
I think what we need in a commander-in-chief is strength and resolve, and presidential campaigns are tough business, but being president of the United States is also tough business,” Edwards told reporters Laconia, New Hampshire.
“

To bad as above the media did not cover Hillary’s attacks a few seconds after the incident. Or her attack as I noted above on Edwards looking up dead 17 year old girls that HMO’s killed to chase ambulances.

You know, the more I think about this situation, the more torqued I get.

Can’t prove this, but I have a suspicion that the f*cking mess of a primary here in Michigan is because of two women who are HRC supporters; I suspect that one or both have been promised or are bucking for a slot in HRC’s administration. Nobody wants to go on record because they don’t want to be the target of the sh*tstorm that would follow disclosure.

John Edwards and Obama are both off the ballot, because they are following the DNC’s rules about participation in a primary that does not follow the DNC’s democratically voted-upon schedule.

HRC, however, remains on the ballot, with Kucinich (who claims he tried to get off the ballot), Dodd (who’s dropped out of the race but is still on the ballot) and Gravel (who should have dropped and might actually pick up protest votes).

Want to bet this is the REAL reason why Edwards wasn’t exactly his usual Southern gentlemanly self? Why would you be with somebody who tries to take advantage a primary in a state of 10 million people, blowing off the rules of the DNC?

KO was harsh on Clinton. He also held Edwards news to 12 seconds in the first 40 minutes of the show.

Its the Obama show.

If the quote from Clinton gets out wide where she comparse Obama to MLK in a very negative and terrible way she will lose even more tomorrow. Even though up here in NH its the last 1 or 2 states to have a holiday for MLK.

One thing I remember about Hilliary when Bill was running the first time, she got hammered for wearing headbands. At one point in the campaign they disappeared. The first interview I saw with Bill and Hilliary after he got elected, she had one on.

I thought to myself good for her.

I respect her, and I always have. I will vote for her if she’s the nominee. I just don’t agree with a lot of her policies, I would’ve like to have seen her run a campaign that is relevant to 2007 and not nostalgic for the mid 90’s, and I think the time has come to move past the Clinton brand of politics.

MSM does not want Edwards to be the dem candidate. They are after him as well as dissing HRC. He only gets negative time on MSM. When Hill was riding high he was ignored. Does.t any of the candidates stick up for fairness…I guess not when your on the corporate fascist take. This thread is pretty damn wild and irresponsible. Time to get rational.

I agree with you, bigbrother. His “comment” has so much negative spin around it, what he actually said is almost lost.

I think the right-wingers want to see Obama win the nomination, because they think he is the most beatable by whatever Republican makes it out of the clown car.

Here is the Clinton quote on MLK…so is she dumping on MLK like Edwards was dumping on her? Is she a racist like he is a misogynist?

“Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act,” Clinton said. “It took a president to get it done.”
- Sen Clinton

Note: There is a longer quote from Clinton but I am note sure it would change the attack.

Must admit I am enjoying watching which moron makes it out of the door of that little twirpy car they are driving around as they corner hard at each state.

Jeebus, wouldn’t you just bust a gut laughing if Ron Paul took Michigan next week, with McCain taking NH this week and Romney taking Wyoming and Huck taking Iowa?

I agree. I didn’t watch Matthews or KO tonight. I knew Matthews and his relentless attacks on HRC, but am surprised to hear about KO. I did hear HRC, and there was no crying (not that there’s anything wrong with that). She showed some emotion and indicated that she understood how far this country has gotten from what it is supposed to be in the last seven years. I wished she had gotten that across earlier.

Last week, I commented to post on candidate closing ads to say that I thought Edwards’ was the best. The standin supporter of Edwards, talking about loss of his job and Edwards’ honesty, got almost precisely as emotional has HRC did today. I still think it was a good ad and applaud her statement today.

OT:
As for Clinton and Obama and the Senate -I have not done my homework of all their votes on bills (policy yes) -, but from what I have heard their voting record is almost identical. As I guess Edwards would have been when he was actually in there.

Every time I see a picture of them at a GOP debate, I just hear “Honk! Honk!”

In addition to Edwards “pouncing” accorind to Wolff on KO in the second 6 seconds of coverage he was “creeping” up in national polls. The first 6 seconds was that he pulled another 36 hours of non-stop campagn (and they actually showed him talking with no audio for a few seconds).

There was something in a later piece about 40 mintues in but I tuned out since it was all pretty boring.

TR = Troll Rating. Not a nice thing!

the problem in regards to HRC, and in other ways for others such as Edwards being ignored or ridiculed by the media and the pass that the republican sickos get is…

the double standards.

As GG so ably carries on, Big Media is more a than a travesty in this country, its an insidious influential actor where it has no business. Politics and policy in America can never be sane, normal, rational until Big Media is taken down.
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Senator Clinton should have been answering questions like this in Iowa.
Also, her answer to the crucial question seemed to borrow from an Edwards comment during the debate Saturday night. That’s when he said that these issues were “personal…not academic.”

Suddenly, 2 days later we hear Hillary Clinton talking about how it’s personal. It’s like she can’t come up with her own material at this point.
That was my reaction.

Edwards comments today were unfortunate, but he’s tired too.

I also do not think she was faking it. It would not be a good strategy so I do not think she would do that.

Also to give her props it does fit the ideal of feeling it (change, the election, the circus, how hard peoples lives are when raging against the machine) personally. and when a person is tired and thinking of these thoughts the tears can flow. She also did not seem to have a crying fit or response but simply teared-up. Lastly I think they just fell out of her eyes, sometimes that happens (good in this case, but in general bad as you do not get the therapeutic value of the tears). I still agree with the other things I said above.

Just a note, funny enough Dan Abrams was the opposite of Tweety and KO.

this was same bullshit double standard that occurred earlier in the debates when people saying that the men were piling on to hillary, attributing sexism when she was the stampeding frontrunner.

she had a little moment when asked about how she stays strong during her campaign. BIG FUCKING DEAL- who cares whether she teared up or not. she wasn’t getting emotional about a death or sickness of someone she loved. her platform and history is still the same

is sexism rampant in our society. no doubt. but call it when it happens and not when some non event or non comment happens. sexist and patronizing? come on now.

this is my favorite blog, but sometimes i think that “events” are manufactured from thin air- the same way we bitch about news channels focusing on anna nicole on a slow news day to fill up their hours. yeah, not fair to compare the two, but still give me a break

Tonight on MSNBC, Rachel Maddow expressed exactly how I feel. She isn’t a Hillary supporter, but she finds herself disgusted with the way Hillary is being treated, and the more it happens the more she feels the need to defend Hillary. I’m the same way. I’ve absolutely had it with the way this woman has been abused by the media, since the 1990s.

Now, her two main opponents are demeaning her. First, the Obama dismissive comment Saturday night about Hillary being likeable really pissed me off. Men who respect women don’t treat them like that. Now Edwards has jumped on the wagon with his reaction to her minute or two of emotional response today. It seems that he corrected himself later, perhaps after speaking to his wife and maybe after he actually saw the clip. But his initial reaction was wrong, opportunistic and sexist. This is the first hint of misogyny I’ve seen from him and as one of his supporters, it gives me pause. There’s no way that, as a woman, I’m going to give him a pass for that. Obama’s answer was better today, but he doesn’t get a pass for his sexist treatment of her on Saturday. He’s been called on it publicly, so he was more on guard, I guess. But credit where credit is due, he handled the question really well today.

Ole Pat is hard to figure out. He has a nice home on the banks of the CIA literally, but he logs more talking head air time on MSNBC by far than any other talking head. He is a fixture on every political show they air, a little less on the one with Floyd Abrams son, but it’s hard to figure out when and if he leaves the studio. I guess during the day.

btw, all the attention that tweety scarbourough etc gave to this “event” was nauseating. tweety definitely has a fixation with hillary.

In all fairness and in balance, considering her TV coverage and blogs, and the rest of the candidates, I think it’s mistaken to zero in on a couple days of Tweetie, and KO and sum that up as misogny in general or piling on HRC specifically.

Until Obama won in Iowa, he was very much ignored by MSM and HRC was the inevitable darling. I never saw the MSM analyze her voting record, or her absense of commitment to major causes, like wiretapping you every email and every phone call you make since 2000. I never saw her once except in campaign context say a word about Rove and Miers stonewalling subpoenas.

If as some women think HRC is the poster girl for women’s causes, what legislation has she sponsered or passed to advance them?

I have seen very little that Hillary has “fought” for at all. During her health care efforts while married to someone in the West Wing, she and Ira Magaziner excluded a lot of groups who know a little something about how health care works, including those who deliver it and have for years.

It seems that you have completely missed the point. You didn’t even address the incidents from today and the past few days.

I might add, prior to the weekend when what Columbia University sociologist Duncan Watts called “cumulative advantage”, HRC had massive and favorable coverage on MSNBC and all the other media outlets, save Faux Noise.

Cumulative advantge is where small advantages at “critical junctures” snowball as it is for Obama now. It’s the rich get richer phenomenon, and unfortunately or fortunately depending on your point of view, the dynamic is very much like the one Golding portrayed in Lord of the Flies.

You really just thought Matthews was supportive of HRC until Iowa. Jeez, two people can really see the same events differently. I’ve always thought Hillary or Chelsea must have rejected Matthews at some point. Something like that was necessary to explain his irrational hatred, as I saw it.

maybe asking a guy who lost a son and whose wife is battling cancer, about his political opponent tearing up about the grueling campaign is rather stupid.

does she tear up about the war dead? the uninsured? her tearing up about how grueling it is don’t do shit for me.

I took it as seeing her country go down the shitter. That’s what we all get so worked up about here.

After that clip …. .she deserves no respect. Highly unprofessional! Equally, her tearful ploy was unprofessional and hardly a vision of strength.

If she wants respect, she should respect herself as a Presidential candidate a little more than that.

I’m am amazed at the lengths people will go to to support this coronation. What about when Muskey did it and was out? What about when bush gave his backrub. There IS definity a double standard going on here and Hillary needs to knock it off. In fact, this tearful voice crack is exactly how she sets professional women back.

I absolutely did address them, and this “you all who aren’t voting for and supporting HRC” aren’t doing so because she is female has been a topic on several FDL threads, and I addressed them then as well.

I gave some reasons @ 116,123, 148 why I don’t want her as President.

I said specifically that gender doesn’t matter to most of us who can filter out comments by Chris Mathews (a lot of them) or KO or anyone on TVee when they make no sense.

I haven’t though heard any of the HRC supporters besides the mantra that they like and respect her give specifics as to why they’re supporting her.

OK–you are mourning what were sexist comments towards HRC of late–although she had tons of favorable airtime on the same shows for literally two years in her run up to the Ms. Inevitablity crown until her precipitous, irreversible fall began documentation last Thursday.

Could you please tell me, if it’s not too much trouble why you think she’s best qualified of the theoretical three who still have a chance to be President based on her performance in the Senate and her health care efforts while married in the White House to the President, that excluded many groups integral to helping her plan health care (one of the major reasons they failed.)

granted, hillary take a beating all around- she get’s it from both sides. it’s totally understandable that anyone would be tired emotional etc. there’s nothing to denigrate about her being emotional.

my disgust with this whole thing is that hillary gets the “sexist” outrage about edwards questioning her ability to deal with the grind of the campaign- his questioning anyone else about that would go unheeded, so why is it a big deal if he says that about hillary? i don’t see anything sexist about that at all.

what i see as sexist is the gloating coverage by the media about hillary shedding a tear. in that context, it would seem that edwards comment is one of crowd, which i doubt, but which is unfortunate since it causes good people to paint him as a patronizing sexist jerk

The problem with the whole thing is that such a big deal was made out of the fact that she became emotional, for a few minutes. The problem was compounded by the response by the media, by Edwards, and by the left blogosphere. You should see the way she was torn to pieces at other sites (especially dkos, where it was rabid today). I also have a problem with the way Obama treated her in a demeaning way Sat. night.

I’ve been in that position before so I know how it feels to be treated dismissively simply because of gender. It’s wrong and there’s no effective defense for it. Men who truly respect women don’t treat them that way.

Also, it doesn’t move me too much one way or another, her getting emotional I mean, but I think you are misinterpreting what brought up the emotion. If you watch the video, it seems that what gets her upset is the thought of what’s happening to this country and the worry that it won’t be addressed.

If you analyze transcripts of what Tweety says, he says things out of both sides of his mouth towards many people, but always praises them to the skys to their face.

Of my current event ignorant friends who think Bush co and the Republicans are the way to go, all of them hate MSNBC and don’t listen to it.

Mathews has had a ton of exposure for HRC on his show, and in fact I’m arguing that their have been far and away more HRC topics in the past two years than those of the other candidates, and while doing other work, I’ve listened to it in the background–maybe I should have gone with music at the time–I also had some Air America streaming at the same time and alternated, but I’m a bit of a political junkie although lately it’s become a vanguard of this country turning into a bannan republic with a Congress looking a lot like the Venzuelan parlaiment morphing into the Chinese National People’s Congress, and the DOJ looking like the Mexican federal law enforcement.

I don’t think she’s the best candidate. As I noted, I’m an Edwards supporter. I just sent him money two days ago. You’re making assumptions and seeing things that aren’t there.

I am simply addressing the way Hillary has been treated. The reason I defend her is because I think people should be treated fairly, whether they are my candidate of choice or not. I hate sexism. If you can’t see the misogyny and unfairness in the way Hillary has been treated, it’s your problem, not mine.

On the contrary, Joan, I have felt that HRC has been very condescending and snippy towards Obama on more than one occassion. She really believed she was inevitable, and until very recently wouldn’t have given Obama a chance. Now she, Mark Penn, Patti Solis Doyle (both of whom Bill Clinton wants gone) and Howard Wolfson have been shaken to the core, because the little caboose they laughed at has become a runaway locomotive they can’t possibly catch.

He didn’t say that, Jane. That’s your interpretation of what he said.

You’re right Crosstimbers. It’s pretty well known around these parts that Matthews has an unhealthy obsession with Hillary and has had it for years now. It’s pretty absurd not to acknowledge this, if one has witnessed it.

i think the original question was something like “how do you stay so strong on the campaign trail”.. her answer seemed heartfelt.

i respect the fact that many women relate to being treated dismissively because of gender, and the outrage is understandable. and i don’t want to be dismissive of that either. of course it’s real and it happens all the time.

i would just like to separate what is acceptable in a competitive context and what becomes off limits because of the competition (male v. female, male v. male, black v. white).

like i said, if guiliani had the same reaction to the question, no one would be bashing edwards today. so what’s the beef? what would hillary have said about edwards if the situation was reversed?

So now you’re going to launch your own swiftboat campaign on Edwards. Real classy, ladies.

Having the “First Woman President” is meaningless unless we get a fully qualified professional woman. Hillary’s behavior both with the tearful voice crack business and her come on to Chris mathews (blech) is highly unprofessional and I shudder to think what will be expected of me in the workplace now. Feh. Way to go Hil. Thanks bunches for your towering strength.

If Hillary wants respect, she needs to respect herself. If she wants to be President…… well, there’s nothing that could make me sign on for “4 more years”. No.

He didn’t say that, Jane. That’s your interpretation of what he said.

The fact that anyones interpretation differs from your own should be no surprise. It’s an open forum, and Jane is your hostess.
And I think Edwards is getting keel-hauled by his wife right now for this. And he has it coming. Just my opinion.

And once again it is about Hillary. Way to go FDL.

Jane, here’s what John Edwards did say about the Clinton campaign attacking him yesterday.

Keene, New Hampshire – Today, Senator John Edwards today responded to Senator Clinton’s aide, Jay Carson’s statement that “In order to be president, you need to do more than read articles about people who need help and talk about them,” saying Clinton is “somebody who’s actually going to help people and not use them as talking points.”

Edwards said:

“My reaction is this campaign doesn’t seem to have a conscience. This is not about them – it’s about families like the Sarkisyans, the Lowes, and the Lakeys, who desperately need a voice.

“I was willing last night to let this issue go and even willing to let it go earlier today. The more I thought about the idea that somehow everything is about them – it’s an indication that they have no conscience about what’s at stake here. These families are what this is about. It’s not about them nor is it about me. It’s about whether we’re going to actually stand up and fight for these people.

“If she wants to argue with me or the campaign wants to argue with me about my position about some issue, they’re totally entitled to do that. But to talk this way about families who have struggled and suffered and want to be heard – the Lakeys, James Lowe, the Sarkisyans – they didn’t come here by accident. They believe they have a responsibility to their families and their children to create a better America and make certain that what happened in the Sarkisyan family’s case never happens to any other family. I’m proud of them. Everyone should be proud of them.”

It’s not about Hillary.

Vultures!

I now reserve the right to continue laughing at Mitt Romney who has set himself up to be portrayed as an elitist flip-flopper in the general.

Many of my friends who follow politics closely and some who have been successful politicians are huge Edwards supporters.

There is much capable and worthy of admiration in John Edwards.

I believe people should be treated fairly. I treat them fairly. I abhor sexism. I don’t think in the last 24 months misogny and unfairness are the way to characterize HRC. I abhor the trash that is up on right wing blogs as to the crying episode that aired today.

Let me introduce you to a venue where misogyny and unfairness run rampant, and they are going to continue to run rampant. The federal appellate court system in the U.S. has been very discrimatory towards women, setting precedent after precedent in case after case. George Bush has added mostly men to the bench (240 appointments to the federal trial and appellate bench), and his additions to the Supreme court, Alito and Roberts are teeing up and already have issued many opinons damaging to women, and minorities and the worst is yet to come for more than 30 years.

Democrats were in the 10-9 majority on Senate Judiciary when they were confirmed, but in the case of Roberts, five Democrats including the woman on Senate Judiciary commitee, one Diane Feinstein voted for Roberts.

Joan help me with a concept I don’t understand as a very close federal court watcher.

Why hasn’t Congress passed a law mandating that each appointment to the Supreme Court and federal bench will be a qualified woman alternated with a man? As far as I know genetics and fertility, when a baby is born in this country, there is a very close chance it will be either a girl or a boy. So why shouldn’t your Congress mandate equal representation on judicial tribunals whose opinions have such far reaching consequences for women and men???

Why is Ruth Joan Bader (Ginsberg), Age 74, called “kiki” by her family, the only woman on our Supreme Court? I don’t understand this. If you want to site misogyny writ large, and unfairness, I suggest you focus on your Supreme Court, and I’ll be glad to collate the opinions in the last two terms and the pending opinions which have been adverse to women.

Also your Democratic Senator, Diane Feinstein, has made many votes hurtful to Democrats and this country, as has Hillary.

I’ve got to tell you, in all fairness, Hillary Clinton’s criticizing two Obama votes that she LOL voted the same way on, makes her look like a fool. What the hell is she saying there?

Is she saying to Obama, people shouldn’t vote for you because you have two bad votes “just like me.?” It didn’t help her.

I’ll tell you something else to watch. More and more democrats, as Carl Bernstein has pointed out, are saying the exact same things about Hillary as Rethugs have been.

John Edwards is married to a very smart, accomplished lawyer in Elizabeth who has spent time working on very worthy projects that the MSM has missed for years. Why hasn’t he sponsered a bill, my equal gender on the federal bench bill while he was in the Senate and campaigned with it?

Well, sure. So we always have to agree with the hostess. I disagree with Jane and said so.

Do your posts get held up for 30 minutes? Oh. Well that explains that I guess.

I disagree with Hillary going all emotional because she lost one… one primary race. I disagree that Hillary represents professional women in the workplace. I agree that running for President of the United States is tough, harsh, and exhausting. Its not half as exhausting as what we’ve been through for 7 years or for the people this should be about. Katrina, Iraq, jobs moved overseas, the insane costs of medical care. This is not abot Hillary and yet over and over people stumping for her make it all about her. I disagree with that.

After that clip …. .she deserves no respect. Highly unprofessional! Equally, her tearful ploy was unprofessional and hardly a vision of strength.

It’s so nice to be so certain how YOU would react to spending a year in buses, and airplanes, eating crappy food, gladhanding hundreds of people a day, begging for campaign donations, and then watching your life’s dream evaporate in the course of a single snowy evening in a farm belt state. I’m sure you would handle it with dignity and grace. After all, the posts I’m seeing show you to have a thick skin and be able to respond with aplomb to anyone who disagrees with you.

I’m not a Hillary fan. In truth, since Chris Dodd dropped out of the race, I’m not sure who I will vote for when the Magical, Historical 2008 Presidential Tragicomedic Mystery Tour finally makes a stop in Arizona on February 5.

I do know this. The moment was genuine. I have not a bit of doubt on that. It makes no difference to me in who I will vote for, as I’ve been in the Not Hillary camp since she announced, though I would support her in the general election.

I really haven’t chosen between Obama and Edwards. I’m not sure what Edwards said was as sexist as some here do. I do know, however, that he stuck his foot in his mouth and came off as insensitive.

P.S. I could care less whether a candidate is “professional.” Frankly, after watching what 8 years of “professional” politicians both Democratic and Republican have done to this country in Washington (including, at times, Senators Obama, Clinton AND Edwards,) I’d be quite happy with a bull in a china shop if he or she gets results and starts healing this country’s many wounds.

Why were so many of HRC’s votes in the Senate votes that helped this country slide down the slippery slope, including every single vote to keep the slaughter in Iraq of children but not hers going on and to give Bush carte blanche financing for this fiasco as billions are missing and billions continue to be lost, and 4000 soon will be dead American soldiers, and 4 million plus Iraqis are displaced and homeless, and hundreds of thousands (no one has a way to count them all so that’s an undercount of the bodies they can find) are dead.

I haven’t found a link (Traditional Media) to the full quote, but I’ve read elsewhere that his actual quote started:

“I don’t really have anything to say about that,” he said.
but then continued, “I think what we need in a commander in chief is strength and resolve, and presidential campaigns are tough business, but being president of the United States is also very tough business. And the president of the United States is faced with very, very difficult challenges every single day and difficult judgments every single day. What I know is that I’m prepared for that.”

Great Unanswered Questions: Could Mitt Romney have done better if he had actually stood for anything? We will never know.

Jesus Fucking Christ Amanda and Jane. Great way to prove your point that women are in fact NOT weak and hysterical, by respectively removing support from your favorite candidate and choosing to highlight that act in approving tones over Edwards attacking a political opponent’s public demeanor in the last days of a primary. And Edwards made no reference to gender! If Edwards had criticized another candidate for crying, would it be safe to assume that the underlying basis of his criticism was some unique characteristic of the candidate rather than his stated claim? I’d like to know your thought processes on this one.

Link to an article that actually puts Edwards’ comment in context, and it’s nothing like what they’re making it out to be.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com…..4.aspx?p=1

Link to an article that actually puts Edwards’ comment in context, and it’s nothing like what they’re making it out to be.

Sure. But to suggest that there’s no subtext, and a significant one at that, is to hide from it, IMO.

If it’s any consolation to all the people who are outraged about the reaction to Hillary’s whining, just remember that Ed Muskie got chased out of the campaign for HIS public crying.

I got this off the clip:

“I had my purty little inheritance-coronation right there in my hand, and now they’re stealing it; and making me work to get it back. How unfair!”

I would have more respect for her if she’d snuffled her way through:

“I made a BIG mistake by kissing george bush, Joe Lieberman’s, and Rupert Murdoch’s asses, while I went chasing after conservative votes that have never been there for me to get, and never will be. And now it’s catching up with me. How cruel is life.”

One rather salient point in all this:

IF she can win the nomination; what will she do when the REPUBLICANS start in on her?

Actually, I wouldn’t spend a year in busses nor run for president. No money. No name.

I see this as the worst ploy women do especially in the workplace. The isn’t a genuine bone in Hillary’s body except she wants to be the first woman President. She even said in that last debate that basically choosing the first woman President is change enough. Well it isn’t. Not even close.

I’m not running for President here DesertRat. I sure would not cross the line in upholding all the fighting that women that have gone before have done in demanding to be treated equally. Now Hillary wants special treatment. No.

I’m on the 5th as well, same sea of red as you. I won’t vote if she’s the candidate. I feel that strongly about it. I have since she announced.

I don’t think what John Edwards said was sexist. It can be easily spun into that by people who feel Hillary should have some special dispensation because she’s the dnc’s chosen candidate and support her by making it about her and by keeping her name out there no matter how negative. Because she’s a woman, if someone so much as sneezes in her direction, they’re sexist. Not the case at all. I just disagree.. and say so.

I do become exasperated that my posts get held up for so long every single time I post here. Its difficult to participate in any discussion when it is not open to …. open discussion.

Good luck with your decision making. I’m for Edwards and openly say so. I have no hidden agenda. He’s not sexist. Sexist men don’t manage to stay married to incredibly smart women. Edwards is talking about changing the way government works. His understanding, and his saying so, that you can’t nice these people and that they will not give their power up, you have to take it from them is what needs to be done. They don’t respond to nice, as they have proven over and over. Plus he’s said the same things to small audiences as he’s said to large ones over the course of this year. That matters that he’s not looking for the right thing to say, but saying what is true and real and people respond to it. It resonates with me. He’s being outspent times over. Its a real cause for him.

I like Obama and have since 2004. My main showstopper is his Joe Lieberman connection. I worry a vp spot for JL. Also, I wish he’d have shown some real leadership in the Senate this last year. Like Chris Dodd. We need Chris Dodd in the Senate. It a roll that he’s gained my total respect doing. Fine person he is. He’s a fighter! I like that.

So, good luck sorting out your choice. It’ll be intersting tomorrow for sure :-)

what exactly is the significant subtext? earlier today hillary pulled a rovian ploy saying she’s the one to deal with the terra attack sure to come.. she has an emotional moment about the campaign, edwards is aked about- he says being president is tough business and he’s the one to do it.. he never referred to her directly and if he did, i say it’s a legitimate refutation of her earlier remarks, whether intended to or not.

what’s to hide? edwards has a stellar record in his policies and proposals that impact woman, and i have yet to see anything that would suggest a dismissive or disrespectful attitude toward WOMEN, maybe toward one of his opponents who happens to be a woman. look at his wife- a wonderful, strong woman who he highlights as an integral part of his campaign- more than any other csandidate.

if you want to find someone who disrespects hillary, look at her husband.. otherwise let’s fight the real battles and hold our people accountable, but not for this fluff.

I will blame women if we lose the Presidency…and we will lose if Obama is the nominee. Very few women have stood up for Hillary. But she and Bill stood up for women. First woman Secry of State. More women appointed to senior posts in Bill’s term. This is disgusting. As for the Edwards supporters…clearly you people are as lame as the Obama supporters. Look, what enrages me is the lack of critical thinking…the unfair playing field. If either of them won fair and square I would be fine with it. But neither has had to suffer the scrutiny that she has and none has been subjected to the double standard that she has. And there has been no hew and cry from supposedly ardent liberal feminists. This is outrageous.

As to Edwards, Hillary pointed out in the debate that he was lying about the Patients Bill of Rights or at best misleading. He was asked what he was proud of accomplishing when he was in the Senate. His response was disingenuous of course. He got nothing passed by both houses of Congress and no bill ever became law. Hillary let us all know that. And Edwards, the successful trial lawyer, was furious she had the audacity to stand up for herself and call him on his fib. He’s been the ostensibly angry one but she was having a meltdown? …but you’d never know he was a liar from his supporters. And Obama lied in that debate too. He nodded NO and stated no when Hillary pointed out his hypocrisy in attacking those who employ lobbyists…especially since his New Hampshire co-chairman is a registered lobbyist. But again, no one cares. So the women here who claim to be rational and open minded and liberal are all hypocrites and traitors to their sex. You deserve the next Republican Supreme Court justice…and you will be responsible if that happens. And it will happen…because Obama has not been vetted. And YOU have not stood up for this injustice. You have followed along like sheep…unable or unwilling to look at this logically. And all women will go down in history as making the difference when Hillary could have become President. You are fools…and yes I am angry. But then…if loyalty to a loyal supporter of women’s and children’s right is not your thing…I get it…Just remember this…you have set back the cause of women singlehandedly, stupidly, and for an empty vessel you do not know…for someone who voted present 130 times in the Illinois legislature…because he wanted to play so safe. Hillary took on the right…Obama has never taken anyone on….and Edwards has hypocritically taken Hillary on for political benefit….Mr. Populist, who never tells you about the lobbyists working for Obama. A boys club you endorse. To tell you the truth, I trust more men would get this right (that is the men that aren’t women haters)than women. I am so thoroughly disillusioned and very very angry.

BTW, Jane; if you think John Edwards is a “patronizing, sexist, jerk” for his innoucuous comments, I’m not real sure you know what one is. But just wait to see if she wins the nomination, because if she then repeats this, you will find out, in spades, what one is, when the GOP and the MSM get their teeth into it.

Ewards was very clear when he said he had nothing to say about the Hillary incident. He did, however have some things to say about campaigning and being president. To turn this into something sexist or to treat it like it’s somehow evidence that Edwards is a jerk is is perplexing.

what exactly is the significant subtext?

She tears up and for the first time I can recall, Edwards goes to the “tough job” card?
And by the way, and this is for MyrtleJune as well – my choices for who I’d like to see as President, in this order, are:
1 – Al Gore
2 – Dodd
3 – Edwards
4 – Biden
5 – Clinton
6 – Obama

when I saw the clip of Hillary choking up, I felt she was talking directly to me. Since before the 2000 election I’ve been watching everything going on. I’ve ranted and raved and cried and screamed. I knew exactly what she was saying. We all knew what she was talking about. We’ve all seen it for more than 7 years now. I felt her frustration that it was so important that no one else could be trusted to stop this. I didn’t know whether to vote for Hillary, Obama or Edwards. They would all be fantastic. Hillary and I connected today, and I support her totally! She made it so clear that she saw what I’ve been seeing! Hard to explain, but she reached me today!

Me too.

I also saw Edwards comment about Hillary and there was nothing hateful about it. He showed sympathy by saying all the candidates were tired.

The main thing I’ve noticed since Iowa is the amount of hate and vitriol coming from the Obama camp. I don’t know if Barack himself is like his supporters, but they are nasty. They tried to get me banned from a blog where I’ve discussed issues with people for years without ever being attacked. They called me racist which I’ve never been called in my entire life. They questioned my patriotism. They called me a sore loser. These are not nice people.

Now Edwards is called a mysogynist. Why?

I thought early-on that Clinton was the easier candidate to beat, but a crucial one to beat too. That was purely a political fight. I respect her work and her personal efforts. She got through to me with the ‘bit’ we’re discussing in this thread. But, that was political. She wasn’t leading the fight against Obama either. She sat on her kiester and tried to win without a fight. Now look at the mess we’re in. Obama has the lead and it’s hate hate hate except when he’s on stage. This is a terribly strange and unusual thing for a Democratic campaign and primary season. We expect this situation from Republicans and the media, but within the Democratic Party we should be civil and supportive. How can we look to Obama for leadership when all I hear is divisive and nasty?

I’d love to know if his win in Iowa was legit, but there’s no way to know.

I’d love to know if his (supposed) win in NH will be legit, but there’s no way to know. He’s got momentum and the sheeple are piling on the bandwagon.

Is this any way to run a Democracy?

I guess I have to blame the Clintons in part. They had a hand in setting up this crazy primary season. I can also blame John Freakin’ Kerry for giving Obama the convention speech. Heckuva job Kerry!

I’m stressed out and feeling frustrated. Sorry for the rant. Just know Edwards didn’t show misogynistic behavior, but sympathy.

As for Clinton and Obama and the Senate -I have not done my homework of all their votes on bills (policy yes) -, but from what I have heard their voting record is almost identical. As I guess Edwards would have been when he was actually in there.

Now, when there’s great pressure, I’m seeing a vast difference in terms of character. What I see is Clinton and Edwards behaving well and Obama’s people behaving atrociously. I wonder if Barack even knows what’s being said in his name. I wonder what the media think will become of America if their standards (the bar is laying on the floor) are upheld for long? To my mind a Clinton-Edwards or Edwards-Clinton ticket would be a strong one in terms of experience, character, determination, vision and for unifying the Democratic party. Obama can’t come close to that. He’s just being set up to be knocked down.

Thanks newtonusr.

When Hill plays the “treat me special ’cause I’m just a lil ole woman” card, she deserves whatever comes her way. This is the problem with making it about gender ….. or race for that mater. Its not about either. For me.

Also, interesting list. I want Gore to head up the “Office of Earth Savery” (formerly known as Office of Faith Based Initiative) in the Edwards Administration. I want Dodd to be the official Senate Majority Leader. I want Biden working on some global fact finding stuff. I may possibly want Obama as VP as I think Edwards then Obama would make a killer next 16 years of my life. And….. I want Hillary to co-write a book with Joe Lieberman entitled “How to say you’re a Democrat even when you’re not”. Maybe Stacy Lunden from “What Not To Wear” could help them on this. And…. I want Richardson to oversee the dismantling of “No Child Left Behind” and supervise the money now going to church schools shifted to fully fund public schools equally (no vouchers, no tax breaks for home school, nada. Public school only). Also, he’d be a top international negotiator.

No, seriously you’ve got some good people on your list. There’s enough work to be done to take this country back all of those people could be very key to success. I don’t know when you vote, but I’m sure you’ll make the decision that’s right for you. Looks like its Edwards from your list though. I hope so :-)

Amanda Marcotte is overly sensitive about sexism. There’s not a hint of sexism in John Edwards’ remarks.

Well, lily15….. you have every right to be angry. As angry as you are at the Edwards supporters, I am as angry X7 for the last 7 years. I am at least as angry at Hillary for trying to perpetuate the status quo of how this government governs. Its a failure and a mess. We’ve been sold down the river here and if our jobs aren’t going overseas they’re importing slave labor to line their own pocketbooks. Our economy makes nothing and is known for nothing except making money and arms to kill people with. I’m not so proud of that. I want that to change. Hillary wants more of that. More terrr terrr fear fear. No thanks. Bottom line.

So be angry because I am fully supporting Edwards. Btw, Edwards did absolutely go after Obama on lobbyists in that debate. I’m sorry your candidate immediatly changed when she came up short in Iowa. That’s why I can’t vote for her under any circumstances. That and it makes this crazy family fued/dynasty thing continue. So be angry. I’m angry about the last 7 years and at the past two candidates who failed to get tough with these pubbies. I’m angry at the conciliatory Congress. I’m still angry about Katrina and Iraq. I’m angry we were told to shut up and get onboard with Clinton because she’s the candidate. That’s not even a Democratic principle. Bipartisanship is the way to lose. We’ve seen that. Let’s not do that again.

So lily, I’m glad to be an angry Democrat with you. We just differ on who we think can carry that anger and appropriately channel it where it belongs…. in the fight to get our country back. My hope lies in the success of that fight. Good luck to you.

Thanks, Jane. I am literally floored how insane the bigotry is with regard to the news coverage and reaction from the blogsphere. Truly something else.

I don’t get it: Obama can discuss the brutality of the civil rights movement, invoke MLK even, and people warm to him. Hillary barely registers some bit of emotion–The woman is simply exhausted!–and it’s some Act of War Against Obama. Unbelievable.

As an Edwards supporter (and a young man), I’m a bit pissed because this is the second time he’s pulled a stunt like this. Earlier he (just like about everyone else) accused Hillary of playing the card when it was sheer projection on the part of the news (Every front-leading campaign is supposed to dismiss and divert attention when under attack and yet hers was slammed as “playing the victim”) and simple hysteria (Hillary stating the facts: the presidential race has historically been an all-boys club).

regis 18 writes:

Amanda Marcotte is overly sensitive about sexism.

Not even close. Has the bigoted protesters who yelled at Hillary earlier today, “Iron my shirt!” been presented in the press as representatives of intolerance? No. Imagine if they were antisemitic, racist, or even homophobic. Misogyny is not bad manners; it is bigotry.

If as some women think HRC is the poster girl for women’s causes, what legislation has she sponsered or passed to advance them?

No, they’re reacting to why and how she was attacked. I’m Latino and I was a bit pissed when people started making racist remarks about Alberto Gonzales. Do I care for him? Hell no, but it’s wasn’t about defending him; instead, it was about taking a stand against bigotry. Can you not understand the difference?

Edwards made no reference to her gender in any way. He made a statement that could be construed as a dig at an opponent, but I don’t see the sexism in it.

However, because of the media spin, the rightwing pouncers and all the so-called liberals tossing in their misogynist attacks, I bet JRE regrets saying anything. Now he’s being accused of sexism for an entirely political remark.

Thanks Jane: we will see more of this rubbish. I must say I am disappointed with Mika Bre: she seems to have become a regular member of the punditry and joins the boys in their fun.

“Patronizing, sexist, jerk?” Excuse me?

This is not the time to buying into whatever spin the MSM chooses to couch the little press they afford the only progressive remaining in the race with any chance of receiving the nomination.

JRE was in a no-win situation with the question that was posed to him.
He reacted cautiously, but appropriately for someone on the eve of a competitive primary. If he gave a more nurturing response I would have found that sexist and more patronizing, not what he ended up saying. I wouldn’t expect him to have been more touchy feely with someone like Giuliani, so why should he be that way with Hillary? So he gives a gender neutral, though appropriately competitive response and gets branded a misogynist by some of the leading lights of the progressive movement. Disappointing.

pdate: Amanda Marcotte pulls her support from John Edwards and switches it to Obama over Edwards’ remarks. (h/t rc)

I wish I had the luxury to switch over remarks (reported how, for what reason?), but I don’t. After Dodd left the field and since Kucinich’s chances are zero, Edwards is the only candidate I can stomach. The Hilary/Obama free trade love, corporate candidate thing forces me to stay with Edwards. At any rate, Obama may have been thinking the same thing, the same way he whips up the normal voters with “change” but doesn’t tell his audiences that he’s a fan of free trade and corporations in general.

Hillary was merely reacting to a touching display of personal concern by a supporter; the emotion is entirely understandable and human, given the withering hostility and abuse she endures.

I can imagine male candidates doing the same, but it would not be thought unusual or indicative of unfitness to lead.

Now that *is* good. Please tell me it’s true.

Yes people make assumptions about race and don’t realize the hurtfulness of it. Ex: Asian drivers suck or Asian food is smelly. It’s so pervasive, people don’t realize the bigotry of it.
On a side note: You might want to head over to the Watson/Moyers interview at PBS or go toBlackAgendareport.com, because for a guy who “tears up” over the civil rights movement, Obama is pretty far from MLK, and in fact doesn’t believe Jena 6 or New Orleans are racial issues. There’s actually an article on Black agenda report comparing both Obama and MLK, and showing how badly Obama comes up short, with his love of big business and all.

She got emotional for herself. She sees the nomination slipping away and choked up. No gender war. Like her male counterparts, she does not lack grandiosity and she certainly is as dishonest as the worst of them. Her lovey dovey connections with Bill, the hand holding, the looks which she has done for years have got to be fake. She wants to be president for the same reason men want to be president. They want to go down in history. They want power. They want to fill their inner emptiness. Anyone willing to surrender so much for the job has got to be too crazy to do it well.

Lily15@231

Nothing makes me angrier than somebdy being so foolishly genital-centric as to think that the cause of WOMEN is the most important thing at stake here. The survival of America as something other than a corporate plaything is what is at stake here. And Edwards is the only plausible champion to save us all in that battle. Don’t worry, little girl, he won’t do anything to jeopardize Roe v. Wade. But you should worry that Clinton (or Obama, for that matter), won’t to anything significant to curb the corporations. What good is your right to abortion if we all get treated as insects by the corporations? Shallow, selfish, and short-sighted, all at the same time. The “cause of women,” indeed! Grow up.

Excuse me, but as a very strong, politically aware woman who has cried out of anger, out of tiredness, out of the pure meanness of people and because I have been told/shown that I am just’ a woman and my feelings are just weakness/hormones and mean nothing.
I really resent the ’cause of women, indeed, Grow up’ comment.
We are all trying to make this country/world a better place for all who come after us, but if we lose or have taken from us, our ability to show emotion/humanity then all is really lost.