The financial crisis currently unfolding slow-motion before our eyes was inevitable and predictable. I say this because it was predicted by numbers of people. It was obvious, anyone with sense (which apparently includes very few people) knew it was coming and despite the fact that we’ve known for years it was going to happen, it happened anyway.
And the same was true of the dot-com bubble. It was obvious, at least as far back as 96/97. Everyone who wasn’t paid not to know it, knew it, and it happened anyway and burst anyway. Now part of that is a question of deliberate government policy–both bubbles were fostered and grown from tiny soap-suds with the aid of Alan Greenspan’s Fed and various other government and private and semi-private actors (like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.)
But creating the bubble took the cooperation and encouragement of a lot of people beyond the government, people who benefitted a great deal from it. Let’s take Chuck Prince, the ex-CEO of Citigroup. Chuckie walked away from his near-destruction of Citigroup with about 41.5 million, including a 12 million dollar bonus for his performance. Drive the place into the ground, get paid well. Then there’s Merrill Lynch’s Stan O’Neal who walked away with 160 million.
Nice work if you can get it.
But if the rot was limited to the top, it wouldn’t be nearly as big a problem.
Mortgage brokers were paid to sell what everyone knew were mortgages that probably couldn’t be repaid. Why? Because the banks knew that they were going to slice-and-dice the mortgages into Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs) and sell them to suckers investors. When the loans went bad they wouldn’t be on the bank’s books. It didn’t (and isn’t) quite working out like that, for the banks, but in a more real sense it is.
Because the mortgage brokers still got their commissions. The real-estate agents got their commissions. In many cases they made enough money to live on for the rest of their lives. The executives in the banks and in the Wall Street firms like Morgan Stanley, who created these CDOs also got rich. They made millions. If they were smart and saved some of it, they will never ever have to work again.
The system did what it was supposed to do. It made the people who run the system stinking filthy rich. If you’re reading this, odds are you expect to work to 65 or so and pray that when you retire you’ll have enough money to support yourself in a style that doesn’t require you to eat cat food. You’ll work forty or forty-five years to get that retirement.
What would you do, or rather, what wouldn’t you do, if you knew that by working hard for five years you’d have enough money that you need never, ever, work again for the rest of your life? Not just that, but for most executives, you would be rich. Want a house on the Riviera? Want to spend the rest of you life travelling? Have a hobby? Whatever it is, you’ll be able to indulge it, because you’ll be rich and money is freedom.
So even if, in the end, Merrill Lynch was going to be stuck with a bunch of bad debt, or Citigroup was going to have problems, why should you give a damn? Making record profits for a few years allows you pay yourself, or to be awarded commissions and bonuses, that add up to more money than a normal person earns in 45 years.
From the perspective of self-interest you’d have to be a fool not to do it. And for most people, even some CEOs, even if you don’t like it you’d still be a fool not to do it, because if you opt out, someone else will just take your place, run the scams and reap the windfall of ill-gotten gains.
What is good for the economy, the country and for the long term health of your company is not what’s good for you. That’s a recipe for disaster for everyone, possibly even for you, if you aren’t real smart. (Money is only worth what the country behind it is worth, after all. Trash your country, or your world, and you trash your own wealth.)
As a result of this incentive system, if it is possible to have another financial bubble after this one crashes out, there will be one. Guaranteed. There is no way to avoid it unless the economic circumstances are so bad it can’t get off the ground (which is possible, if the monetary base starts collapsing.)
The answer is fairly simple, mind you. These sorts of bubbles didn’t happen in the post war period. They didn’t happen because you couldn’t pay enough people enough to make it worth their while. After a certain amount of income, in most western countries, you got taxed at a marginal rate of over 90%. A few CEOs might be able to make it, but most of the executive suite was going to need more than 5 years–they were going to need a career.
At this point to wring the excesses out of the system and to stop the systemic incentives to keep blowing bubbles is going to require doing something to make it so it doesn’t pay. There are two parts to any solution. The first and simplest way is to put a very progressive tax on all income no matter how or where earned that probably comes in at over 95% of all income over, say, $500,000 or a million at the most. Suddenly, needing to actually keep the companies sound, and knowing that in 7 years when the loans go bad, they’ll still be there taking the heat for it, will tend to concentrate the mind not on "can I make enough money to be in a yacht in 3 years" but into "does this deal make sense over the longrun".
The second thing to do is to stop allowing people to sell risk. For years Greenspan argued that risk markets (the ability to take on, say, default risk in credit or for that matter to sell loans in CDOs) made the system stronger and actually reduced systemic risk by spreading risk around. What it did instead is take the risk away from the people who were able to manage it because they were close enough to the ground to know whether a loan was risky and give it to people who really had no clue and had to rely on bond rating agencies to tell them if the risk was acceptable. Without a loan officer in the actual district, without actual inspections of houses and businesses and without the loan officers knowing that 10 years from now if the loan goes bad some manager is going to call them into the room and ask them to justify the decisions they made, the people taking on the loans had no ability to know if they could, or would, be repaid. And the banks, since they throught they were selling the risk, mostly didn’t bother with old style vetting and indeed banks like Citigroup have gutted the departments which used to do that sort of work.
And the bond agencies got paid by the people they issued ratings to. I’m sure you understand what that means for their objectivity. Nor could they, even if they had made an honest effort, duplicate the sort of vetting and checking which banks used to do routinely. They simply don’t check every mortgage and can’t.
So the rule going forward has to be that if you make the loan you keep the risk on your books. You cannot load it off on other people. There are mathematical reasons why in theory it ought to reduce systemic risk to do so, but in the real world they generally don’t actually occur because of the problem of incentives–the people with the necessary information to manage the risk have no incentive to do so; the people who wind up with the debt do not have the ability to manage the risk; and the third parties like bond agencies have neither the incentives nor the ability to manage the risk either.
Such a world will be a world with a much smaller less flamboyant financial sector with much lower returns. But the idea that the financial sector could somehow make far greater returns than GDP growth and do it for decades was always insane and simply could not work. The only way to do it, the only way it has in fact been done, was to cheat and to ignore system risk, use massive leverage, print money and shove it into asset bubbles and so on.
The end result has been two financial bubbles and thirty years in which the average American hasn’t had a raise and has taken on debt. A lot of people have gotten rich, mind you, and for them these last thirty years have been great, which is why there’s a bipartisan consensus amongst the people who matter in both parties to keep what has been, for them, the best of all possible times, going.
Given a choice, they will keep it going. And there’ll be a lot more rich in America, but odds that you’ll be one of them are near zero. And when it all comes crashing down, somehow ordinary Americans, despite having never been invited to the party, will be stuck with cleanup duty and the bill.




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Zed, if so 2 times since new years. whee.
Ian!
time travel… is it Sunday already?
More importantly, welcome to the Lake. Many people are downstairs, but will be around shortly.
ZED! (Sort of.)
Republicans: The party of War
Democrats: The party of Peace
That what I get from having only watched the Dems yesterday and the Rs
The party of war will ignore our country’s needs:
Healthcare, infrasructure; water, wastewater, flood control, food, shelter, clothing, education and jobs. These together are multi trillion dollar needs that can fire our economy out of recession, provide jobs and the spending power to reignite the economy and pay of the massive debt and shore up the dollar.
Starting with the Dutch tulip bubble, it seems like there have always been people claiming that “This time it’s different; this isn’t really a bubble”.
Is there a such thing as a “sort of Zed”? A quasi-Zed, if you will? I prolly mised out on claimin’ a few of those just ’cause I was ignernt about it.
I sez there is.
Oh Goddess, I think they are going to attack Iran:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..137521.ece
What will happen to the economy then???
These platinum parachutes blow us away. Soon a big nasty recession may hit, and that’ll take our minds off it. So that’s the silver lining. Right?
We have become a “service” society. Trouble is “services” don’t produce much. Not in the sense that science, engineering and manufacturing does. Some of my pals advise me we have become a ‘rental AND services culture’.
Always remember that the London Times is a Murdoch rag. Proceed with caution.
There was a time when loan sharking was deemed criminal. What a quaint notion that was.
Take a look at the roll-over trade-in loans in the auto finance industry for a good example of credit sharkism. And of course this has a very pronounced ripple effect on our sick economy. There is $500,000,000,000 in car loans processed every year in this country.
12 million dollar bonus for f*cking up. Nice work indeed. And the pearl-clutchers are shocked, SHOCKED, at how Huckster’s populist message is resonating with the proles. I will be interested to see the outcome of the Plutocrat Party’s conclave in Oklahoma.
I could almost tolerate a Huckster presidency if I knew for sure he was going to bend these robbers over.
Oil hits a $100 per barrel and we are spending $15,000,000,000 per month on war.
This would be a perfect opportunity for a presidential candidate to show some leadership, wouldn’t it?
I don’t worry. I have CAFTA, the WTO, NAFTA and the DLC looking out for me.
Leadership? Which of the presidential candidates (and why) is best suited to steer us away from the possible economic morass ahead?
We could go back to the gold standard. What? You don’t like that idea?
I’ve got a group trying (still) to sell me a neg am loan with increasing payments and a balloon in seven years. They have done a “preliminary” appraisal claiming my place is worth hundreds of thousands more than it is worth, and claiming I have a quarter acre more property than I have.
My problem, they claim, is my lack of liquidity. The solution, and I shit you not, is a life insurance program whereby I put in $24K per year. At the end of the first year, it’s worth 16K, but if I need the money (the liquidity) the cash surrender value is $1,938 at the end of the first year. Year two? I will have put in $48,000, and the value is $33,593, and the surrender value is $12,701. And so on. The great new is, however, that I can be a millionaire when I’m 91!!!
I would add in the junk bond scandal and the S&L scandal. There are major financial scams about once every 7 years. There will continue to be such scandals as long as there are greater fools to found and government regulation of markets remains weak and largely after the fact.
Ian,
I like where you are trying to end up, but
is not reasonable. A progressive income tax system is just, however it cannot be draconian. Our financial system should reward investors appropriately for risking their capital in a venture. Taking that away stifles innovation and fosters mediocrity. Taxation should be based on everyone contributing to the general fund and common good of our society. “From each according to their means.”
This would shut down the secondary and institutional bond markets, handcuff financial intstituions ability to manage risk and prevent corporations from raising adequate capital. Debt is a legitimate vehicle in any fiven capital structure and should be managed prudently, but there are companies whos appropriate debt level exceeds any handful of underwriting institutions to hold all of it on their books. They must syndicate pieces debt to others willing to assume that particular risk reward ratio. It is incumbent upon every investor to evaluate the risk factors.
The ratings agencies certainly fell down in the mortgage area. The financial markets are now assessing the risk in the corporate CLO market and essentially shut it down and readjusted pricing across the leveraged loan market. There is more pain to be felt when corporate default rates tick upward to the historical norm of around 3%. At present we have experienced the lowest default rates in history (.03%) partially driven by covenant lite and other irrational debt structures and an overly friendly poltical/monetary/fiscal environment.
Buckle up, its going to get bumpier.
Did you know WalMart has been secretly insuring some of its employees and then collecting upon their demise?
The same has been going on with teachers in Texas.
To me it’s simple. Stop the wars and raise taxes.
And we had Alan Greenspan, a devotee of Ayn Rand, running the Federal Reserve according to “Atlas Shrugged” principles. Greenspan, a person who admitted he, “Couldn’t imagine why in heaven’s name someone would run a business unethically,” I mean, how naive is that?
Memo to Alan Greenspan: Because that’s where the MONEY IS! Lots and lots and lots of money. If you don’t play by the rules, you can make even more lots and lots of money.
No wonder our economy is so screwed up under “President Decider Dude.”
Wow. Good argument for confiscatory taxes. Next time I hear that phase I will remind the speaker that confiscatory taxes should only be levied on conficatory income. As wonderful as Bill Gates might be, he didn’t create Microsoft alone, and I’m sure he would have worked just as hard for one 10th of what he got. As for Wall St., they create nothing, and there is nothing but incentives for them to take risks to make money (at least on paper) for their companies. Unfortunately there are no dissincentives to punish them for losing money for the companies. They never have to give back their bonuses when it turns out those deals that were so profitable last year have now gone sour. Not to mention the pillaging of corporate earnings by the officers and boards of directors, at the expense of the investors (i.e. your retirement funds, etc). Let’s outsource Wallstreet to Mumbai and Shanghai. I’m sure those Indians and Chinese could rip us off for a fraction of NYC prices.
OMG. We appear to be fresh out of bubbles. What does this mean?
Reinstalling the Glass-Steagall act would go quite aways to avoiding future meltdowns…
Good enough for me. I’m gonna start claimin’ them.
You get that this was a special zed context, right?
Didn’t know that. You have a link or source? Not that I don’t believe you. Just curious. I can believe anything about WalMart. it blows.
You might want to look at this: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..137695.ece
No, as usual, i don’t get anything? Why a special context/ ’cause the post was long?
Brilliantly written.
Leadership? Which of the presidential candidates (and why) is best suited to steer us away from the possible economic morass ahead?
Steer us away? Dear, you’re soaking in it- Madge
Look at the time stamps on the first four comments.
I was reading a piece about a statement that Ron Paul had made regarding capitalisim and while I may not agree with his politics, the fact of his economic message does makes sense. Things in our country started going very badly after the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, but the reason may surprise many.
“Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven’t had capitalism. A system of capitalism presumes sound money, not fiat money manipulated by a central bank. Capitalism cherishes voluntary contracts and interest rates that are determined by savings, not credit creation by a central bank. It’s not capitalism when the system is plagued with incomprehensible rules regarding mergers, acquisitions, and stock sales, along with wage controls, price controls, protectionism, corporate subsidies, international management of trade, complex and punishing corporate taxes, privileged government contracts to the military-industrial complex, and a foreign policy controlled by corporate interests and overseas investments. Add to this centralized federal mismanagement of farming, education, medicine, insurance, banking and welfare. This is not capitalism!”
So, if we’re to believe Dr. Paul, it seems that ‘core’ to where we find ourselves economically speaking is unbridled credit creation [fiat currency] and fiat money’s chief advocate – Central Banking.
But doesn’t Central Banking and Capitalism go hand-in-hand? The answer is a resounding no!!
To wrap one’s mind around this fact, they need look no further than the words and thought of Edward Mandell House, chief advisor of President Woodrow Wilson from 1913 to 1921:
House was a Marxist whose goal was to socialize the Untied States. In 1912, House wrote the book “Philip Dru: Administrator” in which he stated that he was working for “Socialism as dreamed of by Karl Marx.” In this book, House laid out a plan for the conquest of America, telling how both the Democratic and Republican Parties would be controlled, and be used as instruments in the creation of a socialistic government. And he asked for the establishment of a state-controlled central bank, which were both proposed in “The Communist Manifesto”. And it was in 1913, during the very first year of the House-dominated Wilson Administration, that both of these proposals became law. The Federal Reserve Act was passed, which brought into power a private central bank to create the money of the United States, taking this power away from the united States Congress. And the 16th Amendment to the United States Constitution, the graduated income tax as proposed by Karl Marx, was also ratified. You see folks, Central Banking is, and always has been, a key tenet of Communism — not Capitalism. This is reality.
Now I ask you all; is it really any wonder that in a world increasingly dominated and controlled by the tentacles of Central Banking [i.e. the Federal Reserve] – that American jobs have been systematically outsourced, currency, institutions and Constitution debased, all seemingly to the benefit of a Communist country – China? Makes you wonder what would have happened if the good guys had lost the Cold War, eh?
i think lots of companies insure their workers- to cover costs of training a replacement.
George Dubya’s Dean scream:
Then we’re going to Afghanistan, then Iraq, then Lebanon, and then Somalia and Iran and off to Pakistan….yeeeeeaaarrrrrghhh!
-G
Among the hours of covert tape recordings, she says she heard evidence that one well-known senior official in the US State Department was being paid by Turkish agents in Washington who were selling the information on to black market buyers, including Pakistan.
Senior state dep’t official? i say Armitage. No reason.
Shorter Ian: Prevent moral hazard.
you were six hours late.
Oh Great! Ron Paul!
No solution can occur so long as Republics have any power. Unfortunately, there is no one to articulate Republic culpability in a way that will reach the people.
When it all comes crashing down, we can all feel safer in the soup lines because Republics have kept gays from marrying.
Here is one of many stories about WalMart insuring their employees and receiving death benefits.
http://www.freerepublic.com/fo…..6837/posts
Know what? That got me t’thinkin’. I’m gonna go get me some soup an’ watch TV. catch yuz later.
Very true. They just gotta squeeze the last drop of blood out of that turnip. It’s called corporate responsibility, I think.
Conditreason Rice?
-G
Ian -
Quoting from your post (”When the loans went bad they wouldn’t be on the bank’s books.”), I’m wondering how losses on assets (subprime mortgages, etc.) that supposedly aren’t on a bank’s books are being recognized. Are those losses recognized by utilizing unconsolidated subsidiairies?
I hope the techies are paying attention to that it is clue to some of the issues the site has been having. Compooters don’t like thier time being screwed up… Could be indicative of and underlying time/clock of either the hardware?? or the underlying OS? Just my techie opinion. I always tried paying attention to such things when troubleshooting. Time waits for no one!!(stones)
Now we’re just wasting electrons, but do me a favor and tell me what time stamps you see for comment #s 4 and 5.
Ian’s post appeared yesterday by mistake, received four comments, and then disappeared until showing back up at the correct time today. Those four comments made yesterday showed back up with post today.
Don’t get me started on Greenspan. The same guy who verified that Lincoln Savings was perfectly solvent in a letter to the Feds in San Francisco after Charles Keating paid him for his consultancy. He knew damn well why someone would run a business unethically. He’d been a party to it, probably many times. During the same period that had the Feds cracking down, someone in Keating’s inner circle wrote a memo to the employees who were peddling their junk bonds inside the banks. The message was, “Your target market should be the weak, the meek and the ignorant.” They sold junk bonds to old folks who put their nest eggs into them and lost it all. Greenspan deserves a big thank you…in his prison cell.
OK, Ok. I get yer drift. “One of many, you ill-informed schmuck.”
How do ya do that grin thing? ? Is that it? I din’t wan’t kiddo to think I’m serious. I always let ya know when I’m serious. I’ll say “But seriously….” Otherwise, not.
But thanks for tne info and the link.
Soaking?
Ian Welsh- powerful piece. Thanks! Clearly we have to dig down soon and make sure we get a couple of victories in the Senate, because the only way Dems can have any impact on this mess is both a thoughtful President and a Congress that will be in support.
Actually I read your stuff and so does my lady. We were discussing one of your comments last night. ;0)
Well is the OS, Application or hardware?? Only a good techie knows!
I’m not advocating Ron Paul, but if you bother to go back in history, he has very good reasons in wanting to get rid of the Federal Reserve. The sooner the better.
He won’t. His tax plan is a huge giveaway to the rich, unfortunately
It’s the gubmint!
Oops, forgot to mention, Greenspan was a holdover from the George H. W. Bush administration, I believe. Therefore, he presided over the Fed. Reserve Board during the entire Clinton Administration also. Don’t know how that gets explained.
Please. We practiced liassez faire capitalism the first 120 year the country was in business. While on the gold standard. How’d that work?
In this house we have always voted the straight Demo ticket. And plan to do the same in the elections next November. What changes can we expect on the economic front should a Democrat be moving into the WH next January?
I prefer Edwards for economic reasons.
I got electrons commin’ out my ass, man. I got electrons t’burn.
4:03p
12:10p
Ok, so you were earliest.
You get da zed.
And the only tech issue I care about is getting the spell check workin’. Did they ever do that?
I’m not as willing to let the borrowers off the hook as you are. The housing bubble was driven largely by people taking out loans they couldn’t afford to by real estate, which they would “flip” for a profit before they had to pay the piper. As more and more people flocked in for the free lunch, it became increasingly clear that the folks at the bottom of the pyramid would be left holding the bag. Everyone kept coming in, though, assuming that it was the next round of suckers that would get burned. It’s hard for me to be sympathetic to these people.
nahant & PhysioProf:
IIRC, this post showed up very briefly yesterday and some folks commented before it vanished. Those timestamps must be left-overs.
We are supporters of Edwards in this house.
Aw shit the freeking rain is coming back! Boy when the rain window opens up here in NorCal it really opens up! Just the roof drains cleaned out and it starts again. It took a couple of hours for the roof to drain yesterday between storms. Oh well I still wouldn’t live anywhere else in the lower 48
Because agents of Chinese Communism have controlled it since 1913? Even though Communists didn’t take power in China until the late 1940’s. And if they were working to “socialize” the USA, they doing a pretty crappy job of it, don’t you think?
Good.
But I had never heard that about wal-mart. I was just talking to someone about how much that place sucks. we were comparing shopping expeiences in Publix, Winn-Dixie, Albertson’s & Wal-Mart. WM is worst.
Works for me!!
Yep. That old “Flat Tax” chestnut again.
Yup.
FireFox has spell check built right in.
I must say that the sociology course I took on white collar crime has been incredibly useful in understanding the last few years.
There really is no mechanism now for going back and recapturing ill-gotten gains from corporate criminals. And, quite frankly, if the family members of drug dealers do time for taking phone messages, everyone working in an office should do (brief) time for fraud if it is found something illegal was going on.
The money lost to corporate criminals makes the drug economy look like chump change.
Yeah, a lot of the loans are on the books of subsidiaries or funds. The companies are refloating those subsidiaries because they’re scared of what happens if they don’t.
Break time! Be back later during second playoff game!
He did an ok job till about 98 and even then I understand why he did what he did. Greenspan was fine when Clinton and Rubin were around, but when Bush took over he went off the rails.
ie. it wasn’t him that made the Clinton good times — under a good president with a good cabinet he was fine, but under a bad president with a weak or bad cabinet he sucked.
A balanced federal budget made the economy bloom for so many.
I like Iowa when we have record highs in the 60’s. Jane are you lurking?
With all of the questionable financial moves that have happenened over the last fifteen years, how many indictments and convictions do you remember seeing?
Uh Huh.
They keep gettin’ away with this shit because the odds of them actually doing time are about the same as the lottery.
Hope we elect some actual leaders this time, to get the economy going among many other areas.
What economic policies of Edwards bring you to favor him?
If it comes down to McCain or Obama, the choice here is clear. McCain wants to continue the wars, and tax cuts for the wealthy.
FirstRead: GOP Sen. John McCain has doubled his support from a month ago in New Hampshire, and Dem Sen. Barack Obama has momentum.
I’ve worked in an underwriting department. Responsible companies don’t make loans to people who can’t repay them. Companies are in a much better position to know that than individuals, because companies have people whose jobs it is to have the necessary knowledge to judge whether people will default (and I’m not talking credit scores, which are only a start and which for a major loan shouldn’t be overemphasized. They don’t measure ability to pay, they measure prospensity to pay).
Coming out of the first YKos I had the standard journalists conversation with my cabby, who was inches away from being upside down. I told him to sell his condo within 4 months. I sure hope he did. He was a nice, sincere guy who was also sincerely not very smart. He had been snowed under.
Which is a long way of saying that while borrowers certainly have some responsibility, I put the main responsibility for high default rates on the companies that make the loans. High default rates are almost always primarily a result of overselling people and underwriting failure.
Talk about weird. It’s 80 degrees here in Oklahoma. ;0)
Just dropping by … we were calling ’sort-of-quasi-Zeds’ ‘Single Digits’ for a while. You got your choice of digits, but only one.
According to O’Neil, he and Greenspan were in agreement that Clusterfuck’s tax cuts were a huge mistake and that the surplus (remember that?) should have been used to cover transition costs to social security. Eventually, Greenspan had to provide cover to economic policy that he knew was bankrupt.
O’Neil tried desperately to warn the country about Clusterfuck- but in vain. The fucker got another four years anyway.
China raised interest rates and bank reserves, and their shares are up 1.9% in the first week of 2008
The U.S. is lowering interest rates and bank reserves, and the Dow Jones is off -4.29% so far in 2008.
We must close the Federal Reserve Bank — soonest, to save our economy.
Ron Paul
Speaking of financial crises, Ruturd’s Biz Channel is tanking beyond belief.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..e-ratings/
Averaging 6,000 viewers even though they’re in 30 million homes through cable/sat deals. This despite millions spent on promo. Of course, Pox Newz lost hundreds of millions in the first few years, and Murdoch stuck with it, but these numbers are beyond belief.
Plus, the pendulum really seems to be picking up speed, so no matter how long Ruturd stick with the Biz Channel, it may never come around like Pox Newz did.
Just another example of how the Establishment doesn’t realize the sea change that taking place in America. Their old tricks aren’t working anymore, and they don’t know how to handle it. ATTACCCKKKKK!!!
Too bad we elect Presidents based on who prays best these days.
Sidenote on website weirdness; My Yahoo page is showing yesterday’s blog post titles for FDL.
I still don’t quite understand. I had one of those sub-prime stated income loans. Bought my house in 2003, it burned down a few months later (electrical fire due to original aluminum wiring) so the insurance company had to rebuild it and kindly gave me a few upgrades, so I have a completely remodeled house. Still, I had a 7.5% rate with a first adjustment to come 5 years after I signed the mortgage. I had a three year prepayment penalty, but as soon as that penalty expired, I started looking for permanent fixed financing. By then, my circumstances had changed in that I now have a regular (although low paying) source of income (from disability). I shopped and compared for about a year, but I finally accepted a loan wherein I could buy down my interest rate (it’s now at 6.5%) and I feel I am okay with that indefinitely. Luckily, my house is small and cost was less than $100K, although it appraised last year for $170. I figure it can still lose quite a bit of its value and it will still be an asset rather than a liability and I’m in a decent market, since Phoenix main product is growth. Prices here are still only less than half as what values are in CA. Why were so many people caught so off guard. Why didn’t more do what I did, or sell before their bubble burst? It was pretty easy to see what was coming!
Keep this topic front and center, Ian.
Junk bonds, S&Ls, loan sharking, mortgage scams, Venture Capital Firms, Fed manipulation ALL the Financial Industry. What’s wrong with this picture? They don’t lose. It’s the people they see as suckers they can scam.
For several years I was hired by VC firms to assist their portfolio companies to ensure they had a strong team to get a company started. Why did I qualify? I had a business background. The difference was, I started my business with next months rent and I took on 100% of all risks. The “CEOs” (just a title) of VC portfolio companies were given large sums (millions) of capital to start a company. Often the CEO was some sales person in the VC firm. The money was other people’s money, otherwise called investors. The VC firms got gazillions of shares just in case a particular company was successful (a la eBay, Google). Nine out of ten companies failed. Sank. Tanked. And investors lost. The VC firm may have lost clients but they were successful on other fronts.
You should have met the CEOs. I’d role my eyes every evening when I got home that such losers could have been put in charge of a company that affected employees and investors. When I’d ask the CEO what was the purpose of the company, mostly, the person would give me a mission statement. He had no idea what the purpose of the company was. The mission statement was often a muddled mess. They wanted a PR firm to put a purpose and mission statement together for them so they looked good. Huh?? If I don’t know the purpose of my business nor the business statement I can never come up with a viable business plan to meet objectives. And they didn’t.
The reason the bubble was deep and devastating was because we had so many really bad business people in every facet of business ready to “take the money and run”. That is still the mode of operation out there.
Hurrah!
One Edwards economic policy which we highly favor is his idea for putting more money into schools. Education, it is strongly felt in this house, is the key to competiveness and a vibrant economy. It also is an essential ingredient in the fight against poverty and mental and physical health deficiencies.
There is wisdom in your house.
The Gold Standard and Pauls economic model is simply a return to the “Robber Baron” laissez faire capitalism of the late 1800’s. As far as for working people that “experiment” has been tried and resulted in incredible privation and suffering. It’s something that the Republicans have been pushing on us for the last few decades and Ron Paul is simply the fast track back to the days when there was legalized pseudoslavery ( Jim Crow Sharecropping and the “Company Store”), no labor unions, child labor, no minimum wage, 60-hour work weeks, etc.
The Gold Standard and “NO Federal Reserve” had nothing to do with the absence of economic depressions, runs on banks, massive inflation, etc. ALL of which occurred frequently in the period between the Civil War and WW1. Speculation and phony stock (particularly on precious metal mines and markets) were pervasive.
Of course St. Ron Paul is ONLY into pushing the Precious Metals Standard because it’s good for America…he’s not gonna make a penny on it!
LOL! Take a look at just how much a shift to precious metals would benefit St. Paul PERSONALLY!
http://www.opensecrets.org/pfd…..6_Pres.pdf
A discussion of zero-control, laissez-faire Reaganomics seems overdue. Ron Paul has been pushing it. And I’ve not seen much response from knowledgeable progressives (which may a lack of searching on my part). Does anyone have some good references/links?
It’s mostly the approach. You really “can’t” nice these people, they have no reason to negotiate or compromise.
i agree. i’m so sick of hearing the ‘give the courageous investors the breaks” rap i could ralph. the people who risk this dough can for the most part afford it. And stand to make the real money out of their supposed risk.
lame lame lame argument. friends i dine with who lay that on me ruin my appetite.
He had a choice to not provide cover. The Fed chairman does not serve at the President’s discretion once appointed. He provided cover because he had ideological preferences for such policies even if they were misguided — he though they were doing good things in the wrong way, as it were.
Couldn’t agree with you more. The children our the futuer of the country and making sure they get a good education and compressive proactive medical is essential to our country. Beside proactive medical is the best medicine and the cheapest solution. I know early detection of cancer will extend my life!!
He was one of Ayn Rand’s inner circle in the Objectavist Movement. Her premise is that business people are above morals and ethics and the only ethical people on earth, thus John Galt. She hated democracy and believed only an elite few should rule and that was business men. Capitalism should have no rules, regulations or anything to stand in the way of a business man’s decisions. He is perfect.
Her symbol was the dollar sign to hand around your neck like a cross or star of David. Bet Greenspan wore one under his shirt.
Absolute adherence to rigid free market capitalism is no different to absolute rigid adherence to Marxist economic theory. It doesn’t work.
I certainly agree with this.
Ian, what do you see as financial bubbles in the next few years? Assume there is still a lot of money to be made in housing as it crashes. But what else.
Central banks have been around a long time before Karl Marx…European State Banks are an extension of the Royal Treasuries that issued money according to regulated standards. Alexander Hamilton advocated the establishment of a Federal Bank. The United States had a National Bank in the 1820’s. That Bank was run by CAPITALISTS…you could buy shares in it! It caused no end of problems…but it to assert that a Central Bank is part of a Communist System is simply absurd.
Karl Marx proposed a lot of things…an end to child labor, universal suffrage, the freeing of the serfs and slaves, the creation of labor unions, amongst other things. To assert that because these were things promoted by Karl Marx…ergo they are evil or necessarily lead to “Communism” is sheer sophistry. Gimme a break!
And it’s adherents of both sides use the same excuse: “It’s never been tried in its purest form.” Sigh!
Every western democracy, iirc, has instituted 9 of the 10 demands in the Communist manifesto. For a man who is hated and vilified, he got a lot of what he wanted. Just not the big “end of capitalism” thing.
My house had always been like that, then my Irish mom went for Reagan the second time he ran!!!!!! I don’t think my wife is even registered to vote. I take very seriously my responsibility of making sure the kids turn out Democrat.
My guess is commodities and fixed assets.
Reaganomics were based on the Laffer Curve. You don’t hear much from or about Arthur Laffer these days. If the Reagan era was really that good, Laffer would be golden.
I don’t see where the next bubble can go. There are some specific areas that may do well – energy, alternative energy, food, commodities in general, but I don’t think they can park enough money there.
We’ll see. The key question is how bad the housing collapse is. If it gets too bad, as I discussed in the past, the actual monetary base could start to contract, and if that happened you’d be in a world of hurt with no one able to lend money at all.
Housing bubbles seem real smart, because people live in houses and so there isn’t too much churn.
But the US’s economic geography changes at $4/gallon gasoline. A lot of suburbs and exurbs just aren’t economically viable at that level. People can’t hold on.
Deregulation has dealt this country an evil blow. We need a “New Deal” round two. It makes no sense for corporations to have loopholes and allow them to pay NO taxes! I would rather see the corporations pay all of the taxes and the people pay none. Corporations should be paying for the privilege of selling their products and services in OUR country!
We call it the “laughter curve”
Ian I know that I am late to the table but wanted you to read this article from the UK. My boyfriend is in London on vacation and saw this article to sack private contractor’s regarding rebuilding the railway.
Railway to sack private contractors
An American would NEVER diss the model of capitalism; they’d talk only of the failures of the specific parties involved. Capitalism doesn’t fail us; we fail capitalism.
I was a little slow on the uptake, but apparently that quasi-Zed was a real Zed if you go by the time stamp on the reply which is apparently not working or something. I can’t burn any more crutons on this.
I say commodities too.
Bush wanted that too and he won. Never overestimate the American voter.
Boy, am I glad to hear that!
Nice catch Katy.
I’m not a big fan of contracting out. In some cases it makes sense, but as a strategy it loses you a lot of control and expertise and puts your success in other people’s hands. I know most business thinkers these days (including some I respect) disagree with me.
And, of course, in government outsourcing, it often comes with no responsibility. Good for Network Rail for holding them responsible for their failures.
That’s interesting. In really hard times art can be one of the first to bite the dust because it is considered luxury items. What fixed assets in particular do you see as going down? (Keep your fingers off my computer. Here, take the kitchen table.)
Yeah. I eventually got that, but only after reading through, what, 90 comments. Funny mixup.
That’s right! I remember that guy.
And not a beat would be lost. If the head of a business says I’m not going to do business with America because last year I made 100M and this year I made 95M, so I’m picking up my marbles and going elsewhere. I don’t think so. He’ll smile as he pockets his 95M
Interesting to read the comments too… “Why are we hiring US companies when the UK is known worldwide for its project management & engineering expertise?”
Good question… I also do not consider Bechtel a US company. It is a global company that may have grown out of the US.
You bet most is better than nothing And being forced to leave the county, with the board nad executives leading the way!
I’m going to the salon now.
They were asking for suggestions about how to improve the book salon and it occurred to me that evry time there should (unbeknownst to the guest, of course) be a designated goof. Not to heckle or disrupt. But just somewhere to slip in one single totally o/t question. just to keep these people on their toes. and maybe make for a light moment. good idea, no? well I’m off.
Funny, but if you read Dubya’s manifesto about his planned economic policies in 2000 (or look at what he claimed in the debates) only about 25% of the surplus was supposed to be used for tax refunds. He actually allocated up to 50% of the surplus to placing Social Security on a sound footing. 25% of the remainder was to go to his “Special Projects” (is it coincidence that Iraq was planned by the “Special Projects Group?). Nothing was used to pay off the deficit or debt.
Of course, Bush defenders assert that the dot.com bubble was already bursting at the end of the Clinton era and that there really wasn’t supposed to be a surplus…but that’s certainly NOT what Dubya was talking about in October 2000, or when he started his massive tax cuts in 2001 (and continued them every year thereafter). Of course his priorities show. He gave nada to assist in the long-term survival of Social Security and dedicated over a trillion to his “Special Projects”.
New York Football Giants Win!!!!!!
Your remarks reminded me of when I sold my niece’s house (as the listing realtor.) The buyer was hispanic, and they were dealing with a hispanic title company and lender also. I could not communicate with the loan officer or the title officer; had to go through someone else in the office to translate. I couldn’t help but wonder whether they were getting a fair deal on their loan, because there was some trouble putting it through and at one time the title company’s rep suggested doing something that didn’t sound quite right. I was relieved that the buyer’s agent said absolutely not, so she was doing her job and completing her fiduciary responsibility to her client, but I sure think the lender and title company thought of the buyer more as prey than as a client.
This is a good comment. Are you counting the Iraq and Afghanistan wars among the Special Projects expenditures?
Yep! Just silly…the “Marxist” in Wilson’s cabinet creates an economic system that eventually leads to building a military that bankrupts the USSR? And wonder how Edward House managed to prevent the “Red Scare” after WWI, and somehow prevented Wilson from sending US Troops to fight the Bolshevek’s in Siberia? Oh wait! He didn’t!
Maybe he wasn’t really a “Marxist” except in the extremist minds of the children of members of the John Birch Society!
I really can’t believe that people think that Edwards is this great guy who’s gonna watchout for the middleclass. Edwards voted with the GOP for the bankruptcy act in 2001. “required Americans facing bankruptcy to undergo debt repayments instead of debt relief…Edwards would not allow relief for people who were forced into bankruptcy from medical bills. Edwards also sided with the entire GOP caucus to vote against the Wellstone amendment to the 2001 bill.”
http://jre-whatsnottolike.com/…..ankruptcy/
Edwards voted with Clinton and the architect of the repeal, Robert Rubin, in 1999 for the Repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act f 1933.”Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, the former co-chairman of a major Wall Street investment bank, Goldman Sachs, raises eyebrows by accepting a top job at Citigroup as Weill’s chief lieutenant. The previous year, Weill had called Secretary Rubin to give him advance notice of the upcoming merger announcement. When Weill told Rubin he had some important news, the secretary reportedly quipped, “You’re buying the government?”
http://www-c.pbs.org/wgbh/page…..emise.html
And how did these laws affect the middle class? Bankruptcy court, massive foreclosures, loss homes, and indentured servitude to the bankcard industry at astronomical interest rates. So, gee Mr. cleancut Edwards comes off as Mr. Nice Guy in the debates, but remember so did Bush.
Don’t get me started on Robert F***ing Rubin who is fundraising for Hillary. Not only did he help orchestrate the demise of Glass-Steagall but he also was responsible for NAFTA.
Here is the Republican form of free enterprise in a nutshell: Privatize the profit, socialize the risk.
I’m aware of his votes, and also of the other candidates votes on various issues. They all have less than stirling records. Edwards says he was wrong on most of those votes, I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he means it because of the three, I find him most believable. Others don’t, and that’s fine.
Rubin was a very competent treasury secretary who did a good job. I don’t agree with his underlying plan or philosophy, any more than I did Clinton’s (even at the time). The best summary of Clinton’s administration remains “best Republican president of my lifetime”.
There are those corrupt officials in the US government who make their money by selling U.S. nuclear secrets in the middle east, so says gagged Sibel Edmonds:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5518
- Tom
One of the biggest winners of the blow job of the year should go to Larry Kudlow of CNBC’s Kudlow and Company. You remember Larry don’t you?
The neocon necromaniac who cheerily said the stock market rose because investor were happy about Paul Wellstones fiery death in a plane crash -likely giving Republicans control of the Senate.
Last April he proferred this Right-wing spin on the housing market:
“..Some folks are bellyaching and gnashing their teeth about oil and housing; but you know what? Housing is softer but is holding up just fine. Today’s Wall Street Journal says its time to buy a home in Houston, Dallas and Atlanta, rather than the east and west coast. Good point.”
He does shit like this day after day -making him just as dirty as any of the banks or Ken Lay, who pumped up his employees while secretly stealing thei futures.
An important point that needs to be addressed is that Corporations are not held accountable for risk failures. What has happened in the United States starting in the Carter years, the first major bailout of a giant Corporation, Chrysler. What has happpened is that corporations practice capitalism when profits are abundant, and due to Carter’s decision to not allow capitalism and free markets to follow their course, he had allow bad corporate risk failures to be shared and created socialized risk. The taxpayers bailout these bastards and the CEO’s, COO’s, CFO’s, and boards of directors walk away whistling with the cash. Risk failure is rewarded. And we are handed the bill for failing corporations, Banks, airlines, etc… Under Carter accountability was removed and replaced with avarice. And also under Carter, the unions were weakened when the UAW were forced to concede to Chrysler’s demands. It was believed that the autoworkers were making too much money with too many benefits. And from there, Reagan followed thru in the firing of the traffic controllers and diminishing the power of the peoples voice and demand of fair living wages, benefits, and retirement.
I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he means it because of the three, I find him most believable. Others don’t, and that’s fine.
Is this not the same logic of the people who voted for Bush? He’s believable? How about his actions speak louder than his words. How many more times will we all go down that path?
Book salon is good.
There is a difference between the real markets and the financial markets. Innovation in the real markets created new products. Innovation in the financial markets does nothing except change who the winners and losers in a zero-sum game are. Individuals who get rich in the financial markets do so primarily by holding onto money that rightfully should have gone to the investors.
And top managers in large corporations use the power of their positions the same way, to redirect funds that should have gone to the investors into their own paychecks. It’s called the ‘agency problem.’ How does an investor keep his agent from stealing from him? Because that’s exactly what the top managers of Circuit City have just done when they each got a $million bonus as they drive the company into bankruptcy. Remember their game of laying off the experienced sales people earning $17 an hour and replacing them with entry level works at $9 an hour with no benefits? When Christmas sales collapsed, they offered the laid off workers entry level pay to come back. Didn’t work for some reason.
And as for you comment that
Ian is not talking about eliminating the sale of debt, although if you think the capital markets are currently open for business to any great extent then you don’t realize just how bad the credit problem really is.
It is the business of setting up institutions that slice-and-dice different tranches of debt out of bundled packages of debt that is dangerous.
From my blog
The problem in the credit markets right now it that all the investors were trusting the sellers – and the rating agencies – to tell them how much risk they were buying, and it turns out that neither the sellers nor the rating agencies had a clue.
On top of that mutual ignorance, the rating agencies were paid by the sellers to provide a rating, but the sellers made the various raters compete to get the job by telling in advance how good the rating would be. The rating agencies had to play the game because if they provided real ratings they got no business and didn’t get paid.
The further away from the underlying economic activity the investor gets, the less likely it is that there is any real knowledge of the true levels of risk involved in an investment. Risk that is not understood cannot be “optimized.” That is a situation that calls for extremely simple models of risk mixed with experienced and independent people applying heuristics making the final decisions because no one really knows if the data that is fed into a model is adequate to describe reality. Essentially those risk models you mention are only as good as the theory behind them, the data that goes into them, and the time period and nature of existing financial institutions that existed when the model was first tested.
OT: Michelle Obama on C-span. I think I want an M. Obama/E. Edwards ticket!
Go Girl!
Bill Gates didn’t get wealthy by being handed money, either as an overpaid CEO or an overpaid money manager who was diverting money from the investors to his own pocket. Bill Gates created a business and a family of products. His wealth remains in that business, and he is wealthy because he owns the business.
Gates was not an agent siphoning off fund that should have gone to the investors.
Your options? Unfortunately sometimes you have to go with the best of a bad bunch. IMO, that’s Edwards. Kucinik isn’t viable, sorry.
And Bush was worse, conflating the two isn’t honest pool. You think Edwards is going to take the country to war based on a big lie? Has his budget proposal spent the same money twice? Does he clearly get a kick out of killing people? Is he mentally challenged and speaks like someone with brain damage?
There are significant differences and they do matter. And I was telling people not to vote Bush in 2000. It’s a question of degree and judgement. My judgement says Edwards is the best we’re going to get. And if he means even half of what he says, that’s going to be pretty good.
If he means it all, and can push even half of it, it’s FDR.
FDR wasn’t FDR before he got elected either, btw.
Bill Gates got rich by a smart business plan. He stayed rich by using monopoly power to crush his opponents and keep market share to himself. The technology MS produced and produces is technically inferior and provides a worse customer experience than that of its near rivals, and almost none of it was invented or perfected by MS.
The majority of MS’s value comes from network effects, actually, the initial creation of which they can thank IBM for.
And most of the value that any billionaire “creates” was not created by the billionaire. Somalia has been a libertarian paradise for a long time, somehow it has no billionaires.
The smart billionaries know that, including Bill Gates, who has indicated he believes in the estate tax, for example.
Katheryn at 38
I wonder what the going rate is to train a replacement WalMart greeter.
Nope he was a monopoly artist in the mold of that great American, Rockefeller. Sure he engaged in business practice that ran contrary to anti-trust law, but it’s ok because he gives money to charity.
No, it’s ok because he gave to Bush, and Bush repaid him by squashing an anti-monopoly suit MS was losing, the second he came into power.
Oh yes, that’s right. Well then, see, it’s all good for the robber barons! Rockefeller would applaud charity to fellow oil man. Happy day!
Speaking of statistics, congratulations FDL on 48,000,000 site visits.
—–Geeks R Us
to Diogenes at 63
Let’s see. Off the top of my head, there was the twenty year 19th century Great Depression that started in the 1870’s, the severe recession in the early 1900’s, followed by the 1929 Depression. Before that there was relatively little industrial economy in the U.S., and the New York Stock Exchange didn’t take off until after the Civil War, so the time prior to that can’t be compared to today.
In other words, the gold standard didn’t do well at all. It provided a boom and bust economy in which the busts continually got bigger and more destructive.
And he will do the bidding of the banking interests. Presently, the Federal Reserve is lending out billions of dollars to
themselvesthe banks at the window for 4.25%, who orchestrated the subprime mortgage crisis and credit crunch. And in turn, we lowly taxpayers are presented with the devaluation of the dollar, inflation, low wages, and unemployment. The banks hit us coming and going.As for FDR; The Crash paved the way for the man Wall Street had groomed for the presidency, FDR. Portrayed as a “man of the little people”, the reality was that Roosevelt’s family had been involved in New York banking since the eighteenth century.
Frederic Delano, FDR’s uncle, served on the original Federal Reserve Board. FDR attended Groton and Harvard, and in the 1920’s worked on Wall Street, sitting on the board of directors of eleven different corporations.
Yeah, you just made my point. FDR turned out pretty well, most folks would agree (you apparently don’t). At this point, I’ll be quite happy with an FDR.
Frank Probst at 67
A lot more people were induced to refinance their homes to take advantage of the bubble-induced increase in value than there were speculators. Everyone in finance kept saying that the intelligent people were taking advantage of the price appreciation in their homes. Those people weren’t speculators.
I can’t tell you how many mortgage brokers have told me over the last four years to refinance my home – “It’s a sure thing, and if you are intelligent you will do it.” Even the financial managers were recommending it – it was ‘the conservative option!’
There were some speculators, but most of the people I know in trouble got there by refinancing the home they have long lived in.
There are other alternatives to confiscatory taxes, i.e. flat low taxes with a citizen’s dividend paid out to everyone equally. Sales tax of 10%, property tax of 2%, income tax of 30%. No exemptions, no deductions. One half of all revenue to fund the citizen’s dividend. This is the proverbial level playing field. The free market is a socialist ideal, anathema to capital.
What is really going on here is a civil war between the owners of capital and the manager’s of capital. Sophisticated owner’s of capital never get hit because they know when to get out. Joe Kennedy advised, never look for the top of the market. Sell when you’ve made a decent profit and look elsewhere.
I agree on your idea of keeping risk at point of origination. Limited liablity should also be limited.
FDR opened the way to unrestrained money supply expansion, decades of inflation–and credit revenues for banks. Raising gold prices from $20 an ounce to $35, FDR and Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau, Jr. (son of a founding CFR member), gave international bankers huge profits.
Curtis Dall, son-in-law of FDR and a syndicate manager for Lehman Brothers, an investment firm, was on the N.Y. Stock Exchange floor the day of the crash. In “FDR: My Exploited Father-In-Law,” he states: “…it was the calculated ’shearing’ of the public by the World-Money powers triggered by the planned sudden shortage of call money in the New York Market.”
To quote John Adams, “All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.”
A good parable:
An old Cherokee chief told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people. He said, “My son, the battle is between two wolves. One is Evil–it is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego.
The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked, “Grandfather, which wolf wins?” The old Cherokee chief simply replied, “The one you feed.”
A good parable:
An old Cherokee chief told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people. He said, “My son, the battle is between two wolves. One is Evil–it is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego.
The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked, “Grandfather, which wolf wins?” The old Cherokee chief simply replied, “The one you feed.”
Ha great application! Posted once but it showed up twice!
Ian,
My point about Bill Gates was that he did not get his money by creating a financial bubble or by defrauding the investors out of excessive pay as a CEO or top manager (the problem of the agent who acts for himself rather than for the person he is an agent of.)
I agree with you on his business tactics. I should point out, however, that Gates used the same business model as IBM had previously. MicroSoft has traditionally let other companies develop a market, and only when it becomes large enough to meet MS standards to they either buy the leaders or use the power of the MS operating system to compete and defeat the original market creators. That’s a problem, but I don’t see it as one correctable through the tax system. [I was a strong CPM fan, and it took years to convince me that MS Dos would dominate the market. It was merely a second-rate ripoff.]
Gate’s wealth, however, still is primarily in MS stock. It never has yet been subject to tax. No corporate employee can say that, including the CEO’s, the money managers or hedge fund managers.
Speaking of which, George Bush owned only 2% of the Texas Rangers baseball team, so when the investors sold it out at a big profit, his share was only worth about $2,000,000. But since his name had been used to convince the city of Arlington to pass a .5 cent sales tax to finance the stadium which they gave to the team, the other owners kicked in a bonus of some $8 to $10 million. (I forget the exact amounts, but he ended up with $12 million profit and bonus on a borrowed $600,000 investment.) The bonus was for his services, not part of the return on investment, but he reported it on his taxes as investment income to get the much lower tax rate on investment income than was due for a bonus for services. A bonus is taxable at normal earned income rates. Since he did all this before being elected governor in 1994, it is long past being questioned unless the IRS could prove fraud.
Ian, this is a great article, and I am still rereading your earlier one on “American Parallels.” (I hadn’t realized that the current stage of American empire was resulting in financialization of the economy.) Keep up the outstanding work.
One other thing. My argument for a long time has been that wealthy people get that way because of their use of power, not because of their use of economic knowledge. [Warren Buffet may be an exception, or he may just have great PR]
Economists discount the use of power because they can’t measure it directly like they can the results of financial transactions that accountants summarize into financial statements. Laissez Fair economists will actually fight you if you try to consider power as the cause of price setting.
David Cay Johnston’s new book “Free Lunch” is all about the ways the wealthy have been using political power to take money from the tax payers, aggregate it, and give it to the wealthy.
I think that taking our democracy back from the wealthy and reasserting the Constitution and the Rule of Law is going to be a long, hard slog.
I’m coming at you live through the magic of open source and the Fedora Core 8 with free browsing thanks to Mozilla. If there’s a cure to the MS style monopoly, it will be similar to a cure for the public’s apathy towards politics; as a whole, the populace will need to be intelligent enough to build its own alternatives to the mainstream.
Yes, the article was not primarily aimed at folks like Gates. I have real problems with monopolies and oligopolies and as such I have real problems with Gates, but he isn’t (except indirectly) a part of the problem I was describing.
And yes, IBM losts its FUD/monopoly mojo and let MS take it. But then, what IBM did was also bad.
Yes, power is what matters, I don’t disagree. The changes I am suggesting won’t happen unless people seize enough power to force them down the throats of those who benefit from the status quo. They happened because they work very well for certain people. Really, the past 30 years have been wonderful if you’re in the top 1% or even 5% of the population. Just rockin’. To those people nothing is fundamentally wrong with America because everyone they know — their friends and family– are doing great and have never done better.
The people who are getting screwed are just statistics to them.
Stephen,
Your answer is probably above this, but those assets [read loans] are packaged up and tranched out [read securitized] and sold to investors that rely solely on the rating provided by S&P and Moody’s. Depending where you are on the first, second, third loss “waterfall” dictates the return you earn on your investment. People in the “investment grade” tranches are now losing their principal, hence the meltdown.
We are in agreement. I just don’t want to become the designated defender of Mickeysoft. I’ve had to learn Office and the various OS’s because I worked as an accountant, and the accounting business is locked into MS software. You can’t easily bounce around offices without using MS. I’ve given up dual-booting Linux because Microsoft is so unfriendly to other OS’s on the same hard drive, and for all the cheap crap in MS, dual-booting wound up being even worse.
As for the power in economic transactions, I’m not just talking about government power. Much of the whole free market malarky is based on the theory that free markets between equally knowledgeable buyers and sellers who are independent of each other establish the best socially agreed value for labor or various goods and services. Once that is said, the free marketers don’t bother to look at differences in power or informatino between buyers and sellers. Anything that results in money changing hands is deemed to be both a market and free. Generally, at a price above that of a candy bar, it’s not.
If the seller can control the buyer’s decision, he will sell at unreasonably high prices, and vice versa. Or if the seller knows that the goods are shoddy or unsafe but the buyer does not, then the buyer will pay too much. In the case of CEO’s, the Board of Directors sets their pay, but the CEO appoints the Board of Directors. Essentially the CEO’s are setting their own pay rates. They hire consultants to justify the excessive pay, but guess who pays the consultants? Monopolies and oligopolies are just the most obvious offenders.
Texas bought into the Enron-inspired free market for electricity and gas. We all know how well that worked for California, but here in Texas TXU sets my electricity rates based on the prise of gas. Yet, only 7% frigging percent of TXU’s electricity is based on gas powered generators. The vast majority is based on a nuclear power stating they built 30 years ago. The price of that generation isn’t going up, and it should have been amortized by now. So why are my electricity rates this year twice those of utilities that are still government owned, and over twice what I paid three years ago? TXU must have known that the gravy train was about the end, though, because they just sold out to a private consortium that paid more for the utility than has ever been paid for a utility before. It has gone private, so the regulations on public companies no longer apply, and they own the state regulators and the state legislature.
Edwards and Huckabee are the only politicians talking about this stuff, and I seriously doubt that Huckabee got much training in economics at Ouchita Baptist College (or Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary before he dropped out of there.) Of course, since populism is opposed to the crooked establishement, the Press doesn’t like Edwards much more than they do Hillary. That’s because the Press is itself a core element of the political establishment, and they know damned well that we out here in the hinterlands are recognizing their hand in the current set of interlocked disasters.
I only said elements of what Marx had believed were in turn sold to Wilson by Mandle House who was a known Marxist. That is fact and that is why we ended up with a central bank called the Federal Reserve. The Constitution never caleed for a fiat currency but rather coin in both gold and silver. Kennedy’s executive order to this day has never been trashed by any president since it was written with reagrd to gong back to a silver standard. The founders knew the control bankers would ultimately attain should such a cartel come into existence.
There seems more here than meets the eye given that Congress which controls weights and measures says that all gold holdings of the US are only wroth $42.50 an ounce. Why might that be when the rest of the world says the price of gold is over $860 an ounce.
The Federal Reserve should be abolished. If not, something of value must be placed behind the US dollar. If helicopter Bernanke keeps the printing presses going, the dollar literally won’t be worth the paper it’s printed on. We’re even losing money making pennies out of copper as dollar inflation has caused all items to increase from oil and food, to everything else one requires for daily existence. The system is broken.
We’re mostly in agreement, I’ve written stuff along those lines in the past. Government power, even when used, is used at the behest of other actors as often or, in the current day, far more than it is used just for “government”. California was caused by deliberately witholding power from the net. As far as that goes, the majors have deliberately underinvested in refinery capacity and that has a lot to do with gasoline prices. That’s a market failure and a government failure.
There’s virtually no such thing as a free market, and not a single key market in the US or in world trade even comes close. They’re all managed, tweaked, subsidized, penalized and have massive barriers to entry, collusion and use of monopoly power to exclude competitors.
Given that that’s the case the argument over free markets is a fraud. They don’t exist, they have almost never existed, and they will almost never exist. The question is “free in what ways and what will keep it that way?”
Relatively free markets, paradoxically, require government intervention to create and to keep them that way. In many areas monopolies and oligopolies naturally form unless government makes sure they don’t.
I don’t doubt that there is a bunch of this. And I don’t really worry about speculators. But I know for a fact that plenty of normal people refinanced into subprimes, and plenty of people in small towns across the country were put into them in amounts they couldn’t afford in transactions that seem fraudulent to me. And I see them, because I represent a bankruptcy Chapter 7 Trustee in a part of a district where there aren’t any urban areas.
I always look for your articles, Ian, appreciate and learn. Even when our views differ on FDR, but I have other axes to grind there, than economic policy. :-)
I reckon a ‘relatively free market’ solution to the present crises would be: let them fail. Tough love. But what we’ve had for far too long is 1/2 free market: let them dig themselves into trouble and then the bailouts happen. My approach to the macro picture is no different than in my personal life and I’ve been in the market long ago, on a small scale. Every time I made a mistake, no one bailed me out. Personal responsibility, accountability.
Now, though, as usual, Ben the Barnacle is throwing huge virtual dollars, the ‘freeze’, and now the auctions. About three weeks ago, I read: 300 families have been helped on their mortgage problems.
How much did that cost the taxpayers? And how many even understand the hidden inflation of the past few months? As well as “economical with the truth” government statistics.
Even now, all the MSM blather about ’sub-prime’ yet those mortgages only peaked at 6.3% of total — and that is going to bring down the global economy how?! Sorry, no, the devil’s in the details not yet known, just as most people do not know the scam of the previous three government chartered banks prior to the Fed.
If someone read ‘Easy Al’ in 1966, they would know he knew better than to inflate the housing bubble. The only conclusion I can see is, he was told.
Here’s a little snippet I found recently:
“According to an evaluation of data from the U.S. Department of Treasury, the cost of goods and services remained relatively consistent between 1635 and 1913, around a level of roughly 25 times the buying power of the U.S. dollar in 2006.”
1913. Sigh. Between fiat money and fractional-reserve banking, who can win.
We had some pretty big ups and downs and difficulty running a national economy when there was no Fed.
Can you imagine the current economy being supported by a multitude of bank-issued currencies?
Madness madness madness!
In general I’m in favor of a flat tax because it’s “Equal treatment under the Law”. But, recently the talk about corporations NOT being persons made me think that maybe we shouldn’t be taxing them, but taxing people more heavily.
I wonder what great economists or tax attorneys would think of that arrangement.
For me, the questions I want answered are:
how much money do we need to raise,
can we get it consistently from year to year with a given plan,
do we have a social goal,
what tax system achieves these goals.
It’s hard to know precisely how much money we need, but government budget analysts can provide those numbers.
Economists at the CBO can probably estimate pretty well whether a given plan raises money consistently. For example, a consumption tax wouldn’t be entirely predictable from month to month. A business tax might be more consistent, but there are also ups and downs there.
Social goal? Yes, I think right now the Progressive idea is to balance things a bit, end the fantastic disparity in wealth which allows the Rich to run the show and turn everyone else into so much baggage. It is also to cut back on the inordinate power the Rich have.
So, we should NOT tax corporations since they’re not people and we don’t tax private activities like knitting or boat rowing.
We should perhaps tax private individuals income at one fair rate. I’d of course, suggest that to avoid it being unnecessarily destructively regressive that we also provide a ‘cost of living’ deduction of large proportions.
Of course, you’d have to phase in such a thing. It’s quite different from our current system. From Edwards planned 28% corp tax and unified single tax rate for earned or interest income I think you could step down the corp rate over a period of years and bring in the deduction at the same time as you end the many different deductions and special loopholes we have now. Of course, I don’t know if he has considered any such plan.
I don’t want to be taxed for riding a bike, watching a movie, playing a video game or walking in the park. Why should my commercial activities be taxed? They all relate to improving my quality of life?
Caveats: I’m sure there are many relating to sheltering incomes and the like. Details can be troubling at times.
The government loaned Chrysler money and Chrysler paid it back with interest. The government made a profit for the treasury and Chrysler stayed in business and people kept their jobs. Everybody won, so what’s your problem?
That’s why we need someone who thinks of people first and will push for laws which prevent predatory lending which can destroy people’s lives.
I never heard Wall Street groomed FDR. That’s interesting. Well, he did a lot to fix America’s economy and banking systems, so they did owe him thanks. But, for people who groomed him they certainly showed a lot of hatred. Strange lot those Streets.
Another of their tricks was to let people refinance to have money for home repairs (they didn’t have enough money on their own to buy new or repair) and in so doing they lost their original mortgage and with it mortgage insurance. With their second loan they had no protection against losing their home if their income stopped or they had extraordinary expenses (like a health problem) and many people lost homes.
Not nice people. Nope, you can’t nice these people.
It’s the way the Repubs are letting price inflation creep into the system, so as prices go up the commercial activity appears to be increasing (GDP). It’s trickery.
So, we have too many dollars for the DP we’re producing. The dollars devalue automatically. Blame it on Conservative Bush Republicans!
I could live with “let them fail” if it went from bottom to top. But it never really gets to the top, does it? If Bernanke and treasury gave a damn about house owners they would have acted a year before they did. They didn’t act till it became a financial contagion and their actions were aimed a protecting creditors, financiers and rentiers much more than home owners.
A history of 19th century America is replete with piles of monetary crises, panics, recessions and depressions.
Most wall streeters wound up hating FDR. This is well documented. They spent a ton of money trying to overthrow him.
Gold standard, LOL. Ron Paul, return to 1770, LOL double. Greedy fools who don’t want to pay taxes, LOL treble.
Predatory lending is a symptom, not a problem all of its own, btw. We worship money, adore it, tell ourselves that those with it are worth more than those without it. Most of us pursue it. We make it a symbol of status; we could have chosen many other things, but that’s the thing we’ve settled on.
Tell people that all that matters is shareholder value, and make their bonuses depend on creating it year on year, and they will do whatever they can to create it. Obviously, no one in power has a real problem with it, because they represent wealth, and wealthy people do not get wealthy by being all huggy. They get that way by being predatory themselves. The only people who disapprove are those who get fucked over, and they’re entirely powerless (because they lack money), and us, and we’re just so much blather, small bubbles in the froth on the ocean wave of greed.
Ian, looks like you are going to either post or re-post an essay explaining utility and diminishing utility theory for these flat-earth, one tax fits all ignoramuses. Even then, I don’t expect most of them getting up to speed on that subject – ever.
Again, many thanks for your efforts to educate, inform, and enlighten. A gem you are.