Comments on: Only Telling Half the Story? http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/ Firedoglake weblog Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:22:30 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: grayforester http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1188940 grayforester Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:01:22 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1188940 <p>It ain’t genetic, RWC. It’s a result of prolonged exposure to a toxic environment. We need to get our boys and girls out of that hell hole now and start trying to repair their broken minds. I blame the design staff.</p> It ain’t genetic, RWC. It’s a result of prolonged exposure to a toxic environment. We need to get our boys and girls out of that hell hole now and start trying to repair their broken minds. I blame the design staff.

]]> By: GorillasGuides http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1188427 GorillasGuides Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:00:59 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1188427 <p>Take that garbage and ram it spikey end first where it belongs. There are always people like you who make excuses for barbarism. As a serving soldier let me be the first to tell you that people like you make me want to puke.</p> <p>Du</p> Take that garbage and ram it spikey end first where it belongs. There are always people like you who make excuses for barbarism. As a serving soldier let me be the first to tell you that people like you make me want to puke.

Du

]]> By: timr http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1188139 timr Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:32:10 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1188139 <p>please see comment #168(I’m new at this and clicked on wrong comment to reply to.)</p> please see comment #168(I’m new at this and clicked on wrong comment to reply to.)

]]> By: timr http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1188135 timr Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:30:10 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1188135 <p>OOPS, should be a reply to 8 twain comment, not 7.</p> OOPS, should be a reply to 8 twain comment, not 7.

]]> By: timr http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1188130 timr Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:26:58 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1188130 <p>Of course american soldiers are doing this. We did this kind of thing in WWII, Korea, Vietnam. Why not here? War is not nice, soldiers are not police, nor are they trained like police. The american Army is trained as a field force military. IOW, they are trained to engage the enemy in battle, and kill them. period. The reason the Marines are not being charged with killing 24 civs is that THEY DID NOTHING WRONG. They were following their rules of engagement and their training, which is to react with overwhelming firepower when attacked. Look at videos of what happens after an IED goes off. Shooting everywhere. Look at what Blackwater agents do when an explosion or IED or anything that they perceive as a possible attack-remember that many of them were soldiers in the US military. So they react as they were trained. And remember that the Army and Marines are trained as a field force military. Not regime protection, not force protection, but as a field force army. They shoot people and break things. That is their training. The kind of troops that should be in Iraq are military field police, and civil action. Not basic Infantry, not other skills like Artillery, Air Defense, Armor(tanks). Arty, Tanks, AD, do not have primary infantry skills, so they have to be retrained as Infantry while in Iraq, and have to be retrained in their combat speciality when they return to the US. What I just wrote is a big reason why these incidents happen. Lack of proper training, lack of the correct ROE, and the plain fact that our soldiers have little or no interaction with the local population, so also add in a whole lot of fear that each and every indig is out to kill them, and you will continue to get incidents just like this. We can not retrain our troops out of the field force mentality, our entire military establishment is built on that. And just in case you wonder if I know what I am talking about, I had 12 years in US Army Combat Arms(the overall career field) from 1968 to 1980, and was discharged medically as a platoon sgt.</p> Of course american soldiers are doing this. We did this kind of thing in WWII, Korea, Vietnam. Why not here? War is not nice, soldiers are not police, nor are they trained like police. The american Army is trained as a field force military. IOW, they are trained to engage the enemy in battle, and kill them. period. The reason the Marines are not being charged with killing 24 civs is that THEY DID NOTHING WRONG. They were following their rules of engagement and their training, which is to react with overwhelming firepower when attacked. Look at videos of what happens after an IED goes off. Shooting everywhere. Look at what Blackwater agents do when an explosion or IED or anything that they perceive as a possible attack-remember that many of them were soldiers in the US military. So they react as they were trained. And remember that the Army and Marines are trained as a field force military. Not regime protection, not force protection, but as a field force army. They shoot people and break things. That is their training. The kind of troops that should be in Iraq are military field police, and civil action. Not basic Infantry, not other skills like Artillery, Air Defense, Armor(tanks). Arty, Tanks, AD, do not have primary infantry skills, so they have to be retrained as Infantry while in Iraq, and have to be retrained in their combat speciality when they return to the US. What I just wrote is a big reason why these incidents happen. Lack of proper training, lack of the correct ROE, and the plain fact that our soldiers have little or no interaction with the local population, so also add in a whole lot of fear that each and every indig is out to kill them, and you will continue to get incidents just like this. We can not retrain our troops out of the field force mentality, our entire military establishment is built on that. And just in case you wonder if I know what I am talking about, I had 12 years in US Army Combat Arms(the overall career field) from 1968 to 1980, and was discharged medically as a platoon sgt.

]]> By: kenoshaMarge http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1187677 kenoshaMarge Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:16:39 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1187677 <p>Soldiers from any country devolve into thugs when they are subjected to unrelenting fear and violence. We may like to think that Americans are immune and somehow better than others but it just isn’t so.</p> Soldiers from any country devolve into thugs when they are subjected to unrelenting fear and violence. We may like to think that Americans are immune and somehow better than others but it just isn’t so.

]]> By: MarkH http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1187583 MarkH Mon, 07 Jan 2008 06:54:42 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1187583 <blockquote><p> Now think carefully about this. It really means that we will continue to have large numbers of troops in Iraq. Any successful attack policy against terrorists would mean that troops would be based IN IRAQ in forward camps. To think that they would be pulled back out daily is an absurd notion. Combat troops would still be IN IRAQ. Edwards is just using a bit of rhetorical sleight-of-hand to say that they aren’t gonna be.</p></blockquote> <p>Geez, it really kills you to think he actually means what he says. Whew!</p>

Now think carefully about this. It really means that we will continue to have large numbers of troops in Iraq. Any successful attack policy against terrorists would mean that troops would be based IN IRAQ in forward camps. To think that they would be pulled back out daily is an absurd notion. Combat troops would still be IN IRAQ. Edwards is just using a bit of rhetorical sleight-of-hand to say that they aren’t gonna be.

Geez, it really kills you to think he actually means what he says. Whew!

]]> By: MarkH http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1187575 MarkH Mon, 07 Jan 2008 06:43:08 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1187575 <p>From your lips to God’s nose, though there and down in and around the lungs, back up and into his ears. Aren’t metaphor’s wonderful? :-)</p> From your lips to God’s nose, though there and down in and around the lungs, back up and into his ears. Aren’t metaphor’s wonderful? :-)

]]> By: MarkH http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1187569 MarkH Mon, 07 Jan 2008 06:36:08 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1187569 <blockquote><p>This is the lesson I learned from the Vietnam war, why did our leaders not learn the same lesson I did ???</p></blockquote> <p>This behavior might be common, but it certainly isn’t what the American people want of their soldiers. It reminds me of My Lai and I wonder if their behavior is in any way directed by officers. If they’ll order Abu Ghraib, then why not this. We can’t trust any of them now and any odd event has to be considered suspect.</p>

This is the lesson I learned from the Vietnam war, why did our leaders not learn the same lesson I did ???

This behavior might be common, but it certainly isn’t what the American people want of their soldiers. It reminds me of My Lai and I wonder if their behavior is in any way directed by officers. If they’ll order Abu Ghraib, then why not this. We can’t trust any of them now and any odd event has to be considered suspect.

]]> By: RayDuray http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1187529 RayDuray Mon, 07 Jan 2008 06:04:31 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/06/only-telling-half-the-story/#comment-1187529 <p>Hasta la vista. :)</p> Hasta la vista. :)

]]>