am I first?

zed? moi?

ZEDUNOFITZEROOOO

Stephy got a facelift.

You beat me to it, perris

Go Edwards!

No one’s reporting it, but Edwards had to send people to an overflow room today in Lebanon. I know because I was there, and I photoblogged it:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..1/0444#c39

Commentary – Ignoring Edwards Again

If you’re gonna school someone, you better look like you’re having a good time doing it.

They all remembered to laugh when Gibson said two college profs make $200K a year.

I would like to thank everyone for live blogging for me, I think I might have had a better time listening to you guys then if I saw it myself

THANX ALL FIREDOGS!

THANK YOU KEEPERS OF THE LAKE!!!

Thank you Julie – wish I could be there too.

Overall, I think Hillary’s performance reflected that she knows she’s out of time. Her choices to emphasize experience and that her approach would get meaningful change done fell flat.

Richardson was nothing new at all and it won’t matter anyway despite his accomplishments.

This is going to be a contest I believe between Edwards and Obama, and it could become tight beyond New Hampshire.

These candidates have got to be exhausted. You’re right Jane. All except Rudy.

Jane!!!

I think your point about Edwards:

wish he’d find a way to make that sound a bit less antagonistic — while I appreciate the willingness to fight, I believe most people listen to him and think it sounds a bit 2004.

is very important … there’s a bit of a broken record quality to Edwards that does not help him and that’s unfortunate. Fighting is important but recently that’s his whole message and I think people need a bit of visionary as well … I think he has that but he’s forgetting to talk about it.

Commentary – Ignoring Edwards Again

That is getting extremely tiresome… 8-(

I wish he’d [Edwards] find a way to make that sound a bit less antagonistic — while I appreciate the willingness to fight, I believe most people listen to him and think it sounds a bit 2004.

Um, how would you suggest he make it “sound a bit less antagonistic?” People are PISSED and maybe sounding “antagonistic” may resonate with them. I’m certainly feeling antagonistic to what’s been going on for the last 8 years. And as far as 2004 goes, he was probably not “antagonistic” enough. IMHO.

NICE PICS!

thanx for the links

Jane: I wish he’d find a way to make that sound a bit less antagonistic — while I appreciate the willingness to fight, I believe most people listen to him and think it sounds a bit 2004.

I disagree– I think we need a bit more antagonism. People are losing their jobs, their homes, their health care. I think people (except the kewl kids) want to hear a little antagonism for a change.

I think Edwards has a good delivery and a good message. No fine tuning needed. He’s shooting from the hip. Passionate and pulls no punches.

Great minds…

Hillary is obviously going after Obama, but somebody forgot to tell her to smile when she does it. She needs to watch her husband’s takedown of Chris Wallace. If you’re gonna school someone, you better look like you’re having a good time doing it.

Or have someone else do it. Stay tuned for a bunch of nastygrams delivered by surrogates in the next 30-60 days, and particularly in the next 30.

Some will be delivered in the next couple of days, but most won’t hit the air until after New Hampshire.

…think alike!

Marion … I am certainly pissed but that does not win elections. People are tired and frustrated and angry and needy … all at once. That’s what Obama is able to tap … and when I saw Edwards in the NH primary in ‘04 he seemed able to be fighting for us and also visionary for us … this time round, I don’t feel like we’re seeing enough of that sunny Edwards in addition to the fighting Edwards and that’s a mistake I think for attracting voters – which is the game we need to win.

do you mean ameria not ready for awoman pres?, we heard the “out of time” thing about the mondale/ferraro try too.

Edwards plows the field of change for Obama so Obama comes out unhurt.

Hey, what happened to Dennis’ monologue?

Interesting in coverage from spin room, saying Edwards campaign put up a blog note saying “RIP Clinton Era with a time and date noting when Edwards threw in with Obama in attacking CLinton at the beginning … anyone see this?

siun, when I saw edwards last time around it seemed as if he was trying to get into the fight, trying to get us to understand that he understands

I see more then that now, now I see he is IN the fight, he is fighting that fight already

my imagages;

last time he “wanted” to fight for us, this time he IS fighting for us

yeah, i thought it was weird. who are they to say this crap anyway?

I agree, he should’ve run this campaign in 2004.

But people are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, the end of the Bush administration, and rightly or wrongly they want to feel like there’s the possibility of change. I think that’s why people are voting for Obama, and that’s what’s missing from Edwards’ message. More than just being angry, people want to hear that there is the possibility of change.

I like Edwards. I love that he wants to fight, and what he’s fighting for. I think he just needs to shift the messaging a bit.

I think he needs to find a way to integrate better the stuff he said about who this is a fight against, and have it show up in the sound bites. Richardson basically parroted the line we hear fairly often about “you can’t accomplish anything if you’re fighting everyone.” Edwards obviously isn’t talking about fighting everyone, but when fighting is the headline, that perception is a danger, and it needs to be dealt with.

I guess we hear different things. I don’t hear anger, I hear passion. “Sunny Edwards” may very well be what lost him support. I like the passionate Edwards. It also seems that the more he attacks the more support he garners, so I guess I’m not the only one who feels this way.

I think he means that HRC needs to win NH big or she’s done in the primaries.

Yep, Hillary Clinton looks tired, and frustrated. Understandable
Obama is hoarse from yelling too much in Iowa and debate is not his strong suit.
How does John Edwards continue to look so young and viable and healthy?
And, without missing a step, he keeps hitting those balls outta the park?
He must take some kick-butt vitamins or something.

my college age son sez put all these people i n white house in one team form or another and you’ve got it made.

i think he’s less guarded than the others. being guarded makes one tired.

He went on a run and refreshed himself…smart

demi, he is speaking the truth and beholden to no one.

Now, if we could figure out how to have a team Presidency we Democrats would have it made in the shade this year!

it just seems to me like edwards wants to change america back to what she once was and the other candidates want to be president

Sunny Edwards was the charge against him in 2004 – lack of gravitas, Mr. Nice Guy. Think they’ll like more gravitas this time around? Don’t bet on it.

On the teevee, they said Edwards went running today.

Is anyone else bothered by ABC assigning one reporter to each candidate to report on the SPIN offered by the candidate’s supporters, rather than to report on what the candidates themselves said?

They have an open blog section and an official section. It may have been a supporter that put something up (it runs kind of like DKos does). Anyone know? They should have checked, because I highly doubt it was an official campaign post…will try to pinpoint that if I can.

Hi all, just popping in to add that I like the
I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore
quality to Edwards campaign.

Interesting debate. Edwards was terrific, passionate. But I’m actually feeling like any one of them would be such an enormous improvement over what we have now.

That said, I’m hittin the rack. Going over to NH tomorrow to go door to door for John Edwards.

That was actually proposed during the founding of our nation – a plural presidency.

Sunny Edwards was the charge against him in 2004 – lack of gravitas. Think they’ll like more gravitas this time around? Don’t bet on it.

Exactly. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Feh.

One of the things that struck me the most while out soliciting support for Howard Dean was a lot people felt he was angry. That turned them off. To me that was a good thing. I like that Edwards want to fight, I think his passion is true. I however am not the general public, and I do think he needs to take the edge off it if he’s going to get broad based support.

YES!

I think you are all correct. Thanks.
Yes. Just being honest takes less energy.
When you’re spinning and defensive, well, I guess that takes energy away from the good fight.
But, dayem, he does look good. So does Elizabeth. God bless them both.
Maybe love helps, too. :)

Facebook has been part of this. I joined Edwards team on FB

Edwards rocked hands down.

Where is Kucinich?????

Jane is right in her comment at #29. People are tired, want to think voting will lead to something better finally after suffering Bush for 8 years …
we need to tap that as well as the anger

You can find someone here who is bothered by whatever you want:)

Feh, indeed.

hey.. the Swiss do it…

The powers-that-be do not want what Edwards is selling. They will marginalize him – are marginalizing him – as much as possible. He’s scaring them out of their Ferragamos and Bruno Maglis

Thanks again for fixing the picture for the last thread!

I think Obama will get the lion’s share of the 44% Independent vote in New Hampshire Tuesday.

yep – I can’t find it on the Edwards site so it will be interesting to see what the story is.

I’m not too bothered by it in this circumstance, where we all had just gotten to see what the candidates said directly. And arguably, passing on the spin labeled as such probably discounts it more in most people’s minds than the rewriting press releases as news that they do too much of the time.

LOL!

last thought– in 2000 i felt gwb would take white house no matter what, and was right, as many were. then i figured that might be a good thing, since it was inevitable, that it would make people SEE what a mess the repubs were making of the country back then even, and george’s ratings were in the toilet within a year. then oops nineleven and eveyone lost their ability to think, ec=xcept a few folks. then 2004 fix was in. no angry populace except the ones in the streets against the war. no along comes edwards fighting mad and he’s plugging into the anger and expressing that for millions of confused angry folks. so his outrage is the real thing because it’s just how people feel, and they are right to be so outraged. so, don’t tone it down, john. cause what he expresses is a reall phenomenon i’ve been waiting since 01 to see somebody channelling! he’s teaches and carries the torch at the same time. bravo.

That was actually proposed during the founding of our nation – a plural presidency.

I want to point out that the presidency was an after thought and all power of that office derived from congress

not the other way around

congress is the boss of him, he is not the boss of congress

strong showing for Edwards and Obama. I thought Edwards did tone it down a bit .Asence of urgency not anger. Hillary came across as angry shes being challenged.

I agree. Of all the candidates, he is most likely to find this advice and at least chew it over.
If he takes it, he’s unbeatable. We just have to get him to the church on time.

I agree with Jane’s analysis of Edwards’ style. It’s the difference between listing all the injustices of the world or saying “I have a dream”

My brother just moved here to TN from NH. He said that the primaries are very difficult for NH residents. They cant get away from it all and there are hundreds of ads a night on TV. He was glad to be here.

Good advice for Clinton with the smile, hope her team reads this.

The great news is we would certainly be in better hands if any of the three top democrats were elected. This is not a personality contest it is an election and the long haul will be finding the one who will pick the strongest advisors and get this country back on track. None of the top three were hurt tonight.

I also think this whole deal about Hillary doing this and that for the last 35 years is sketchy.

HRHClinton made a huge mistake: Saying that being “the first woman President” represents huge change is true. Coming from someone whose name is Clinton and wants to perpetuate the American Dynasty cancels that out completely. She can go home now.

Edwards understands the fight we face better than anyone on that stage. “You can’t nice these people…”. Yes, he gets it. He looks fresh because it is the same thing he’s said for a year. He has never wavered from his cause. That cause is getting our country and our Constitution back.

The signal here was continuously interrupted and I don’t know if it was local, due to the weather I’m sure, or from the source.

hey, we’re all missing the REAL story tonight

the stark comparison between the democrats and the republicans

every single democrat looks inteligent and able to run this country

the republicans?…not so much

that’s the real story tonight

Passing on spin labeled as spin is little more than feeding the trolls. It just encourages them, and wastes our time. “My candidate can beat up your candidate!” Seriously, what do you expect them to say?

If ABC values their airtime that little, I pity their news director.

Didn’t obama make reference to that when he said something about ‘misrepresentations’ or such were coming from “your people, Hillary.”

That’s a very good position for us to be in! (Especially since a lot of people’s reaction to the GOP field is “don’t let any of these people into the White House”!)

I lived in NH for three primaries and it’s a pretty wild time. What I liked was the level of real engagement folks felt … people really get into seeing as many of the candidates as possible and check them out. Retail politics still is wonderful in my mind.

Fred Thompson’s spin bot just said NH don’t matter….C. Carolina does.
Arrogant and foolish.

-G

Hillary has been told to expect to win. Her campaign was as a candidate, a certainty. What a blow to her and she may not make it back.

Lmao,

Bill Richardson won the debate.

That’s because the powers-that-be are the ones to be fighting against! Of course they’re scared and marginalizing him! (I guess that’s your point).

Well, this has been a blast, but it’s about time for me to go and be wrapped in the arms of Morpheus. Have a good evening, and it will be interesting seeing what the Very Serious Beltway Pundits have to say tomorrow on the talking head shows… Oh, and Perris @72 is absolutely right!

I’m on NFL already.

you know, i want to see cheney before a judiciary committee chairman who’ll shout at Cheney, just like i’ve heard toddlers yell at their parents, “you’re not the boss of me!”

Yeah, it’s all about timing. The right tone for the right time. I’m pissed, aren’t you?

my new slogan for my choice this election cycle;

“John Edwards wants to return America back to the proud nation she once was, everyone else just wants to be president”

As a poli-junky I love it.

-G

I would love it, my brother is a Repub curmudgeon. He lived his whole life in NH.

I dunno. She seems pretty damn resilient. One of her better qualities.

Yes, Raven, it sure is.

Also, her claiming the 8 years she served “in the White House” then precludes her from running again.

Or have someone else do it. Stay tuned for a bunch of nastygrams delivered by surrogates in the next 30-60 days, and particularly in the next 30.

Some will be delivered in the next couple of days, but most won’t hit the air until after New Hampshire.

It’s already started. Longtime Hillary friend and supporter Ellen Chesler refers to Barack Obama as a “boy” in an interview with Amy Goodman. Call it a slip of the tongue if you will, but it wasn’t a forced error. It was the first statement out of her mouth. Hear her say it at 3:05 into the interview.

http://www.democracynow.org/20…..und…

He gets to sleep in longer….

she can give it one more shot, she doesn’t have to fold and I hope she does not

GSD – any general reaction from NH on the Dems that you are seeing?

I thought hillary got off a good line on “amnesia.” I think many Americans remember the 90s fondly. You know, by comparison.

going home guys, coffee shop closing

have a good night, will talk to all later

BTW, did anyone notice that Stephanopolous essentially stated Edwards’ NH strategy as the outcome of the debate — “Edwards and Obama represent change, Clinton ‘experience’, people voted for change in Iowa.” As an Edwards supporter, I’m loving it.

Fucking terrible.

-G

Memo to Hillary: The campaign needs some fresh thinking. The arrogant but clueless lobbyists and donors are panicking. This cannot stand. Mark Penn, chief strategist, must go. Perhaps Bob Shrum is available to manage the campaign.

http://www.time.com/time/polit…..05,00.html

The scope of Barack Obama’s victory in Iowa has shaken the Clinton machine down to its bolts. Donors are panicking…And internally, a round of recriminations is being aimed at her chief strategist, Mark Penn, as the representative of everything about her pseudo-incumbent campaign that has been too cautious, too arrogant, too conventional and too clueless as to how much the political landscape has shifted since the last Clinton reign. One adviser summed up the biggest challenge that faces the campaign in two words: “Fresh thinking.”

Dennis – can you check that link? Bad for me.
Thanks

My nephew is almost 12; he’s a boy. In a few years, the terminology will change a bit.

“boy” as in youngster? or in the southern racist sense?

Edwards is the one I can see making it through the entire cycle without losing it, and if he does lose it, it will be at the opposition and will be a brilliant, off-the-cuff rant.

Hillary would get all tight and shrill by July and Obama wilt and start channeling Lieberman around mid-August.

I’m in my living room.

Not much response…..:)

She has to regroup. Bad handlers and I think Bill isnt doing her any favors.

do you mean ameria not ready for awoman pres?, we heard the “out of time” thing about the mondale/ferraro try too.

No Kitty. There are a number of women who are qualified to be President, and I don’t understand/or buy for a minute, the rationale “America is not ready for either a woman” or someone who has any ethnicity or race.

Of course it’s appropriate and long overdue that a woman is running for President.

Let me be clear with the best English I can muster. There is no profession in my opinion where women don’t excel as well as men. None. Well, maybe as a linebacker for the Steelers.

No one should be evaluating Hillary Clinton or any other politician negatively because they are a woman. I can think of many positive traits women could bring to any office or profession.

There are obstacles to women and glass ceilings still, and I abhor them.

My opposition to Hillary Clinton has not for a nanosecond had anything at all to do with the fact that she is a woman.

I was never part of dissing Gerry Ferarro.

http://www.democracynow.org/20…..cussion_on

Ah…here’s what she said, Ellen Chesler that is. The context isn’t what I expected.

That said, Barack Obama placed first. He is the neighboring boy. He had a huge bump up in eastern Iowa on the border of Illinois in Springfield, where he served as a legislator. Hillary Clinton placed second. It was a tie for second.

Well Said, Pete!

I want a woman pres, not a dynasty

Thers is upstairs with more crap for us.

Hey everybody – thers Crap upstairs…

MyrtleJune wrote, “Edwards understands the fight we face better than anyone on that stage. “You can’t nice these people…”. Yes, he gets it. He looks fresh because it is the same thing he’s said for a year. He has never wavered from his cause. That cause is getting our country and our Constitution back.”

This is the truth. All this b.s. about personality and smiling and hopeful message is just crap. The American people need to fight to win, i.e. partisan fighting, against these right wing blackguards, and Edwards and Kucinich know what this is about and the others are blowing smoke.

o kay o kay i hear you.

but i thought what Hil said was the proper thing for her to say, cause it was true and these days that’s a good thng.

nightall
this was fun

Problem with that link – try: http://www.democracynow.org/20…..wa_a_round

And here’s the Chesler quote:

That said, Barack Obama placed first. He is the neighboring boy. He had a huge bump up in eastern Iowa on the border of Illinois in Springfield, where he served as a legislator.

My opposition to Hillary Clinton has not for a nanosecond had anything at all to do with the fact that she is a woman.

I was never part of dissing Gerry Ferarro.

Exactly…she IS the status quo. As for Geraldine Ferarro – I liked her then and still do. I have a lot of respect for her; more so than for Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi or many of the other women in politics.

I saw that. I think it’s a good thing.

I have a friend who met with Hillary a couple months ago, said she was already planning what she’d do in the first 100 days of office. Real cart-before-the-horse stuff. If nothing else, the whole Iowa experience is going to shake things up, and she’s not going to be able to “play it safe” any more if she doesn’t want to crash and burn. What that means ultimately I’m not certain, it could drive her foolishly to the right, but I hold out hope it accrues well for the public debate.

Yes, the real story came across when the democrats came onstage to shake hands with the republicans. And what did we see? Six old, tired, GOP white guys looking like they stepped outta the pages of ages gone by, shaking hands with the party that represents diversity in present day America.

Dennis – can you check that link? Bad for me.

It isn’t as bad in context as it sounds out of context. But the word boy didn’t just appear in Chesler’s brain. Just sayin’ …

Here’s the link again.

http://www.democracynow.org/20…..cussion_on

I am just watching Cspan coverage of Hillary’s question-and-answer session at a New Hampshire high school this afternoon. This is the ideal format for her. She is so warm, knowledgeable, impressive, smart.

As a 62-year-old woman, a lifelong feminist, I am outraged that a woman’s becoming president is not considered major change.

I was impressed by Obama’s speech Thursday night,but again I was underwhelmed by his debate performance.

As pissed as I am – with the same bunch Edwards knocks about – I agree with Jane and Siun on this.

Primates are hard-wired to make “decisions” based on their intial emotional experience….

the thoughts are a veneer selected later so as not to clash with the subjective color scheme.

We’re also hardwired to avoid the primates with faces showing disgust (bad food kills us) and/or anger (violence kills us).

We all carry that basic primate reflex kit every moment of our opposably-thumbed lives.

At any given moment, only some of us primates carry the temporary emotional experience deep anger that would allow us to feel Edwards’ anger as emapthic, and hence connecting.

Though I despise policy triangulation, I’m all for affective manipulation.

Smiles first – after the social bonding, then more primate bonding through shared aggression at outgroups.

Like, say, the corporatists and their owners.

Non-violent aggression, natch.

RICO is non-violent, right?

john eliot just made a great point on air america;

hillary has a bunch of first choices but is nobody’s second choice, edwards is of course a bunch of peoples first choice and is everyone’s second choice

oboma a little of both

Indeed. Edwards has the better chance and, I believe, will know how to more effectively enact the changes that are required to win this fight every single day he’s the President.

Since the mid-terms in particular, we needed someone to “lead” and “win” and “create the change” in the Senate. Neither Hillary nor Obama have done that. I don’t know how they can stand up there actually say they want to “lead” for “change” now. I like Obama, love to hear his speeches since 2004, however the Lieberman connection just sours whatever notes he hits that resonate for that moment. Its a showstopper for me.

ah Kirk … thanks for explaining what we sense …
well said!

ohhh

ron paul is getting some play

NH GOP Drops Out As Fox Forum Partner
New Hampshire’s Republican Party has dropped out as a partner of a Fox News Channel presidential forum because the network won’t let two low-polling candidates take part.

Party Chairman Fergus Cullen said he has failed in attempts to get Fox to include candidates Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter in Sunday’s forum.

“Only in New Hampshire do lesser known, lesser funded underdogs have a fighting chance to establish themselves as national figures,” Cullen said. “Consistent with that tradition, we believe all recognized major candidates should have an equal opportunity to participate in pre-primary debates and forums.”

teehee

Is nobody else curious about Hillary’s “Obviously” and then a big pause before she responded to the early Obama/Edwards double team? I thought this would be all over the net. What was she about to say before she stoped herself? Was it gonna be boys beating up on girls or was it gonna be that they prearranged attacking her? She stopped just in time but I really thought it would draw comments.

“but somebody needs to remind her to smile when she does it”

I really can’t believe this. This is something my ninety year old mother would say. Why not write about that Obama should be less serious and learn how to smile more often, or Edwards tends to laughs too much, and Richardson should sit up straight. I’m amazed you targeted the woman in this group. Btw, I’m not a Hillary fan but found this statement to be a throw back to the dark ages.

Excellent diagnosis, Doctor!

You may have an Iowa caucus hangover…Edwards is not singing come to the political promised land like Barack…He has been in this battle all his professional life…his client like most US citizens are victims of corporate greed and power. He took nothing from the corporations!
Jane you are miss reading John Edwards hw carefully layed out the case against the specia; interest as it relates to the common evry day american. He also pointed out that corporate greed is stealing the career opportunity for our college graduates. Outsourcing industries with globalization. Take a cold shower and replay the broadcast. He did something extremely difficult…stayed aptient while passionate. If you want nicey nicey Reid/Pelosi/Hoyer have tried that. John makes it clear these corporate cronies don’t do nice!

siun, when was the last time there was an election like this one?

methinks you’re out of step with 70% of america.

I heard them saying that too, but I think they were talking about the Facebook site, not the campaign site.

Edwards was sucking up to Obama, so he can get the VP slot. That’s why he dog-piled on Hillary tonight. I was glad to see her fight back. Richardson wastes time on stage, constantly bragging about himself. Why is he still there?

He runs every day

Thanks Siun and MadDog -

but above should have been:

temporary emotional experience *of* deep anger

(searching for a support group for CP4S syndrome victims

can’t proofread for shit)

BTW – here on the Left Coast’s largest estuary (either hemisphere….let the neocons chew on that for global inadeqacy)

the Rethugs are on.

Love Rudy’s ferret glasses.

Oh no. You did not just tell Jane to take a cold shower. That came off like you were telling her to take a Midol, and I’m certain that you did not mean that, but I’d really rethink that as a debate tactic with Jane if I were you.

And, FWIW, I thought he was a little too edgy in his presentation as well at times — but was mostly much more on his game than I’ve seen him for a while. The run did him good today, I think…

Well, or was it the other way around? They need each other to prevent the firewall. I imagine the third place finisher needed to buddy up with Obama and that didn’t work out. Edwards had no problem pointing out the major differences between him and Obama. That didn’t equate “sucking up” to me. There was a definite overt buddy thing going on if Charlie Gibson commented on it. (I think it was him anyway). No matter.

I agree on Richardson. My teevee got its “feelings hurt” when I yelled at Richardson’s comments when they were just debating. Where has he been for 7 years? Nobody was making any personal insults. I thought it went pretty well. He’s not a fighter.

Edwards is the one I can see making it through the entire cycle without losing it, and if he does lose it, it will be at the opposition and will be a brilliant, off-the-cuff rant.

Hillary would get all tight and shrill by July and Obama wilt and start channeling Lieberman around mid-August.

You nailed it…look a little ahead. Same in the WH

jane didn’t get to where she is by being thin-skinned.

fwiw, edwards, at least, knows it’s not time to be nice, it’s time to fight like we know what the stakes are.

Talk about wordsmithing I had to mute the sounds and she was stoill projecting outrage that her Hillarywas not considered the only winner. And the flat ou un ashamed lies wow.

Yes, having worked on this blog with Jane for the past few years, I didn’t realize that Jane had a thick skin. Or that a patronizing tone with her isn’t one of the more irritating thing that you can do. Nope, didn’t know that at all…

It is time to fight like we know what the stakes are. It’s also time to fight in a way that maximizes your odds at winning since John Edwards is, after all, running for office wherein he must attract more voters than the other candidates in order to be successful. It’s called constructive criticism — to make the Dem candidates the best they can possibly be. Because more than anything else, this country of ours cannot afford another trip down W Lane with the Jerry Springer auditioning GOP crew. And if that means that sometimes your preferred candidate is on the receiving end of some constructive criticism from someone like Jane or me or anyone else who has been watching politics very closely for years…well, then so be it.

The Democratic candidates are so far ahead of the GOP crowd it isn’t funny. But that doesn’t mean they can’t all be even better before they start getting hit with the GOP slime machine…

“shift his messaging a bit”

To what for instance?

Edwards seemed the most energized and in addition to joining up once again with Obama to take Hillary down, got in some very impassioned points about the need to confront corporate America. “You cannot nice these people to death.” I wish he’d find a way to make that sound a bit less antagonistic — while I appreciate the willingness to fight, I believe most people listen to him and think it sounds a bit 2004.

What utter crap, worthy of the most empty-headed CNN ‘correspondent’. You claim to want to rid our political system of corporate influence, flush the corrupting cash out of our government, but you want Edwards to be nice and fluffy about it? You suggest that his straight talk is “a bit 2004″? Are you kidding me? This is perhaps the most vapid piece of fluff I’ve ever seen on a liberal blog.

Edwards is my guy, but I have to say tonight’s the first time I saw in him what people are warning about: ringing the corporate greed gong a little too hard, a little too reflexively, so that (as I see it) it could become “that THING he does” (or, as Reagan said dismissively, “There he goes again.”)

I think his urgency is partly in trying to convey his bona fides, but also he’s trying to educate citizens who aren’t QUITE ready to believe it’s that bad. In effect, he’s trying to wake people up. (that’s how I explain it, anyhow.)

I’ve avoided watching Obama’s speech from Iowa partly because I got conned (maybe I mean ‘dazzled’) by Bill Clinton in ‘92, and his performance never matched his dazzle. Edwards, I believe, is much clearer and doesn’t seem to be hedging AT ALL, and right now I like that. I saw it tonight.

But no matter which of our “guys” it is, I’m thrilled. And lookit that collection of Republicans! What a bunch of pygmies! Moral, ethical, spiritual, emotional pygmies!

My passion is a overidding my reason. You bet I could you better choice of words. John Edwards needs our support he is not on the take like the others and is at a distict disadvantage. He is in my mind the class of the three. HRC and Barack are so tied with K street. She might want to condsider these points rather than the political momentum of Iowa.
I stand remonstrated…I will fight for what I believe is right and Edwards is doing that. That id what the r’s need to see from the Dems not reaching across or nicey nicey. As far as the public I am not Poly Sci major but I ‘ll take honesty over put on. That beats the cheesy smile barack lays on us. Now I’ll have to apologise to Obama supporters.
Local poliotics when I get up to the podium for my three minutes I apologise to everyone i have not offende it wasn’t imtentional.

yes, being patronizing is a waste of time, especially when we agree on so much.

i wonder, did everyone see hillary get edgy tonight? “7,000 kids in nh who have healthcare, 2,700 national guard and reserve members who have healthcare because i pushed legislation through over the objections of the pentagon…i’m not running on a promise of change, i’m running on 35 years of change…”

she was in the zone at that moment, but many who saw her will say she was shrill or overreactive; unattractive to voters, by some assessments.

constructive criticism is a good thing, all around.

The median income of a household in the US is $48,000. In New Hampshire, the median household income is $60,400. New Jersey has the highest median income – $66,700. Mississippi has the lowest – $34,300. Many of these people can’t afford to send their kids to college, can’t afford health care, without help from government.

If we want this country to be a country of equal opportunity we have to level the playing field on the issues of health and education. How do we do that? We tax the people and the corporations who can afford it.

The mechanic down the street who owns the garage can’t afford higher taxes, but Exxon can.

The typical family physician in these three states make about $100,00 per year. An emergency room physician in NJ makes about $180,000, in Mississippi, they make $100,000, in New Hampshire, $162,000. I don’t want to tax them heavily, they work hard and they work for you. But big pharma, I’d like to look at their earnings, and see if they’re carrying a reasonable tax load.

The lady here in New Hampshire, who fixes your computer when it gets infected by a virus, she makes $42,000 a year. Bill Gates, and Larry Ellison, and Steve Jobs, they can afford to pay taxes, and they should be willing to pay a larger portion of their income in taxes than you do.

The median salary of a city mayor in the United States is $52,352. The median salary of a state Attorney General is $65,300. These are not high paid jobs. The typical lawyer in New Hampshire, he makes $72,800. Someone who makes twice as much as you, they are better off than you, but they aren’t rich. Someone who makes ten times as much as you, one hundred times as much, they should be bearing their fair share of the tax burden in this country.

The tax burden needs to be carried by those who are earning enough to carry it. We need to tax those who can afford to be taxed, and tax progressively, so that people aspire to work in jobs at all levels of the economy.

I hope that you will always stick up for the candidate that you think is best, and I would always resect your opinion.

Hey, guess what?

Edwards showed again why he is The Man — the Real Deal. Hillary is a mealy-mouthed centrist DLC corporate piglet. Obama is is mealy-mouthed, kumbaya centrist. Mind you, he’s likeable, but he’s still buyable.

John Edwards is the only one who will stand up to the corporist Republicans and Democrats. He stands for the people, the poor and the middle class. Hillary stands for the corporate Money Party. Obama wants to make deals with these assholes (Obama in Wonderland?) Only Edwards realizes that you have to fight the oligarchs, the plutocrats, the Republicans to the fucking death.

Enough with Hillary’s total sell-out to the oiligarchs, enough with Obama’s “nice guy” bullshit, let’s elect someone like John Edwards who knows how to fight these ignorant, evil, greedy, war-mongering mothef*cking assholes.

I think Edwards came off very positively in this debate. I really think that Obama and Edwards could become a tight race. I think Hillary will not be able to recover, and of course I could be wrong.

FWIW, I thought Edwards edged out Obama, but HRC was OK too. Experience does count, and she does have it, even if it is only as US Senator from NY. If it was Dodd making the experience argument, you’d be agreeing it was an asset.

Richardson also has experience, but he has as much chance of winning the nomination as a snowstorm in Australia today. Let me check the weather in Sydney right now, 25.5C = 80F, with showers.

I didn’t see this debate (I was watching my beloved Steelers lose to the Jaguars), but I really didn’t need to. John Edwards has the best, the strongest Democratic message. Obama is, again, likeable but lightweight. Not that he’s not smart, he just needs seasoning and some cojones. Hillary needs a heart transplant — she’s a tool of the DLC centrists who care only about making war and lowering corporate taxes.

Hillary is basically Joe Lieberman with “hot flashes.” Sorry, she’s better than that (but not by a whole helluva lot). Remember, she and Bill really fucked up, not totally supporting Ned Lamont against Joe — they tried to pull a political “Monica” — paying Lamont only “lip service.” Sorry, guys, that only counts inside the Beltway.

In the real world, that makes you scum-sucking pigs.

The first half was a pitiful demonstration of what’s wrong with corporate control of the media and its coverage of politics, and debates. I walked out on it, away from my tv. Pathetic crap.

The second half came alive, and Edwards thumped butt!!!

The MINUTE he went off on the need for changing politics, corporate involvement, lobbyists, and PAC’s, the other candidates were FORCED to echo his memes.

His passion for politics being PERSONAL resonates, and it will resonate in the hearts of the middle class and all minorities who ASPIRE to be in the middle class . . . while Obama SAYS he’s for us, Edwards makes me BELIEVE he is for us. Shilary I won’t bother to discuss, she is lost, and gone.

Edwards needs to be able to stick it out till Super Tuesday. After that, this nation will open its arms to him for change. REAL change.

And any beltway elitist 1%’er’s in here, or anywhere else, better be afraid.

Very very afraid.

Cuz if he’s our dem candidate, not only will the pub’s be LOST, but the POWERS THAT BE are gonna be under siege like never before since Teddy Rose took on the antitrust efforts in his time.

The down side? Edwards will be a bigger target than Obama, in regards to the doings of JFK, KLK, and BobbyK.

He’ll be a HUGE target, Edwards will.

But The Lobby, and The PAC’s, are in for some serious shit if he survives. N that’s some SWEET SWEET MUSIC to this Larue’s ears! *G*

Wonder how his candidacy will impact blog funding . . .

Edwards has to avoid the role Jerry Brown played in ‘92. Clinton had the lead throughout the primary and Brown sort of tagged along making good arguments, but not convincing any voters. Edwards has to get some delegates racked up soon and get the scoring drive going.

And Richardson needs some clothes that fit!

I don’t think Edward’s anti-corporate greed schtick is going to fly in what will always be a capitalist economy, where many of us are employed by corporations, and derive much of our wealth and job fulfilment from them.

We must modify the interface between corporations and politics, and leave it at that.

Richardson has experience but not the energy and vitality to keep up with Edwards and Obama. I’m going to get in trouble for saying this, but Elizabeth’s hairstylist needs to do more with her hair. She has a beautiful face but her hair style doesn’t flatter her. I know she is sick but still. Without the great hair Hillary, well, …
my2¢

My morning after continues to be how fortunate we are to have such a strong Democratic field to choose from.

My concern is the “American Idol” contest trying to pick the most likable, or charismatic, the one we want at our BBQ. Remember Gore and Kerry were “boring”.

It is time to elect a president who is competent, not a constestant. Lets discuss issues and make the determination based on substance, not style. We can afford nothing less.

I thought Gibson did an excellent job moderating the debate. Excellent. I liked Hillary’s detailed response regarding Pakistan–like notifying Pakistan of an impending attack so India wouldn’t get blamed, which would spark off a war. Edwards and Obama looked dumbfounded. For Obama being such a charismatic and inspiring speaker, I don’t recall anything he said last night–except something about football and kumbayas for Republicans. Edwards did a fantastic job sucking up to Obama for the VP slot. I liked his passion for the middle class and the fact he’s run such an amazing campaign on such little money–lobbyist free. Why is Richardon still on stage, taking up time bragging about himself? At least it was two on two when it came to the experience vs. change debate. After seven years of an inept, inexperienced president, I’ll take experience any day over kumbayahs.

“I believe most people listen to him and think it sounds a bit 2004.”

If we are going to assign years to the candidates’ rhetoric, I’d say Obama’s “bipartisan” schtick sounds like 1994. Who’s the one who is more dated?

I don’t think this argument will stick. There are very few people who think a corporation will be loyal to them anymore – we know corporations exist for profit over community. Our jobs aren’t safe from outsourcing, our retirement plans have been gutted.

I don’t know if you meant it that way but your post implies we owe the corporations a free hand (to help them be more profitable) and this isn’t a fair trade. Corporations take advantage of their employees when the employees have no say in their practices. No wonder they fear Edwards with his pro-union stance.

I believe most people, if given the chance to hear his message, will understand Edwards is railing against huge corporations that work against our society for the sake of their own profits. He has not said he wants to get rid of capitalism or corporations, simply practices that hurt Americans. It’s time to start differentiating which policies our country should support for its own survival.

Edwards is also a bit too local, like a repeated series of summations to a North Carolina personal injury injury. Instead of offering a solution, Edwards only defines the problem and then identifies the culpable party. It is a not a feel good or feel better message and it needs to be that.

After reading this blog for years, I am finally delurking.I am the 62 year old mother of four grown daughters, grandmother of one, who has been an editor, librarian, and social worker. I was a civil rights and anti-war activist and a 70s radical feminist. My major leftist credential is my daughter Katherine, who blogs for Obsidian Wings on torture and human rights. Katherine and I have spent the last few days in intense political debate. It has inspired me to come out of the closet.

My role will be the feminist grandmother who supports Hillary as of Saturday’s debate. I had been wavering between Edwards and Hillary.

You wrote:

“Hillary is obviously going after Obama, but somebody needs to remind her to smile when she does it.”

Do you have any idea how often the admonition to smile has been used to oppress women? It is almost as bad as being told, “You are so cute when you get angry.” I loved it when Hillary got pissed off at being dismissed as the agent of the status quo. Yet some of the media is falling over themselves to describe how she lost it.

Welcome Mary Joan!
I’m not a Hillary supporter – I prefer Edwards – and I agree with you. “Just smile, honey…”

I thought Edwards did a great job in the debate.

I think Obama will win NH because of the momentum and because of the media BS that continues to treat him like he’s the best thing since sliced bread. I don’t know if Edwards has enough time to beat out Clinton for 2nd but if he can’t take 2nd I hope he comes in a strong 3rd. It’s tough because the media keeps dissing his campaign but if anyone can do it, Edwards can.

I really wish the media would talk about how much material Obama has ripped off from Edwards’ campaign. We’re not just talking about a word here and there, we’re talking about large chunks of Edwards stump speech. The Boston Globe did a small piece about it but I think it’s really important that people know that when they hear Obama they may in fact be supporting him because he is channeling Edwards.

Obama borrows from Edwards
Email|Link|Comments (30) By Foon Rhee, deputy national political editor January 5, 2008 01:19 PM
By Sasha Issenberg, Globe Staff

NASHUA, N.H. — After beating John Edwards in Iowa on Thursday, Barack Obama has decided to join him — repeatedly poaching his opponent’s themes, language, and even jokes

http://www.boston.com/news/pol…..ows_f.html

“what she once was”? when blacks were treated like second class citizens? when women couldn’t get good jobs? The point is to make ur best days come in the future. That’s what Thomas Jefferson envisioned. Not reverting to a monarchy.