Eureka!!!

John McCain said Mike Hucksterbee has “genuine authenticity.”

Isn’t that a bit redundant?

((((((((((EUREKA!))))))))))

John McCain said Mike Hucksterbee has “genuine authenticity.”

Isn’t that a bit redundant?

Yes, with the added benifit of being false.

Eureka!

YES! Quite.

Hiya Pups!

Ella! Hey, ES! NPB, is Suz fuming…?

So does Naugahyde. (sp?)

…as opposed, perhaps, to John McCain, who has fake authenticity?

If so, I reckon it’s steam. Bless her heart.

hiya ES!

No, no — Old Lord McCain has real phoniness.

Ms NPBrat is in the lake! How are you all holding up this evening?

Evening all. I am finally calmed down from all the excitement here.

I dunno. I Romney has that manufactured authenticity thing going.

Has anyone seen the media question Huck on his Target registry?

OT…I just got an email from amazon.com informing me that “How To Rig An Election” has been shipped. Hate buying a repub book but this one I have to read.

To much chocolate hose? /s

Are you diss’ing my Senator…. without me?

Ok… did you know that McCain would NOT let me into one of his townhalls?
It was by invitation only … remind you of anyone?

chocolate hose?

Please don’t throw anything at me, I couldn’t resist.
For Suzanne and all our Firepups, riding the storm out.

“So does Naugahyde.”

I once knew a woman who claimed to have raised naugas in her basement for fun and profit.

Rudy Ghouliani, on the other hand, has “9/11″ phoniness.

I heard. Cassie wrote about it at TRex’s blog.

Hi Y’all. Last night I babbled about the fact that registered democrats voted 31% Hillary to 32% Obama and said that might indicate the results of future primaries. Today, one of my friends pointed out that NH has open primaries in the sense that anyone can show up and vote in whatever primary they please.

I had thought that it was a system where only registered democrats could vote in the democratic primary, and folks had to be registered weeks ahead of the primary. That changes everything. So, going back to last night’s results, crossover and independent voters favored Obama and Edwards much more than they did Clinton. Bad news for Hillary. (If I’m understanding the CNN entrance polls correctly.)

This phenomenon helps Edwards, but from the stats not enough to win. Edwards will have to hit a nerve to win (IMHO).

Send her a Huckabee sticker and you will be friends for life.

LOL

The Bay Area is clear of the storm now. All that remains is the hellish aftermath. Trees downed, small-scale flooding which we are ill-prepared for, power outages and communications breakdowns.

Pix. The right side shows black the model magic burned. Could not capture the stench on camera though.

http://www.facebook.com/photo……id=1991219

Soli,

I get the republican books at the library. I had to read the one about Karl Rove in the library, wouldn’t have it in my house. There isn’t enough sage and saltwater on the planet to cleanse Rove cooties.

I just discovered Arkansas primary will be an open primary for the first time this year.

they are predicting to hit AZ tomorrow through Monday with flood warnings, 4-8 inches snow in the high country and more than 2 inches rain here in the valley. They are saying it will be wild… Thanks for sharing!

Oooo…good idea. That way, when the NSA combs the library’s records, you’ll pass the test and they won’t ship you off to Camp Blackwater.

Ashtray?

candle sticks

Texas Betty,

Now, you know the media folks are too busy trying to dig up dirt on how Obama got the money for his house to bother with something as unimportant as the Huckster’s Target registry. Silly Wabbit, dirt is for Democrats.

Hey Katy…left you and CT a little note downstairs.

Try this if you are not on facebook.

Thanks for the Ella video,

Takes me back to the albums my parents played when I was a child. Thanks goodness my daughter (now 28) picked up a love for her at an early age. Saw her at Radio City in her later years.

I’m wishin’ for those days when the quiet elegance of a Miss Fitzgerald was more present in our society.

Bonkers,

Oh, I’m sure there is a reservation in my name already at Camp Blackwater.

I just discovered Arkansas primary will be an open primary for the first time this year.

Uh oh, tinfoil hat is humming. There was a lot of fuckery in Arkansas with the US Atty. (Griffin?). Wasn’t he put there just to fuck over Hillary?

What is an open primary? Don’t need to register with a party?

Yep…Griffin is KKKarl’s boy. I’m convinced Rove is playing the Wizard behind the curtain in more ways than we can imagine.

Perspective…
There are 852 delegates for the 2008 DNC national convention.
Per wiki history no winner of the Iowa Dem caucus in a contested primary have been elected President.
Per wiki – only ONE winner of the NH Dem Primary have been elected President – Jimmy Carter.

They only have O-13, E-12 & C-11 pledged delegates…. there is a whole lot more races to get to majority.

RGB… I saw it ;)

Uh oh, tinfoil hat is humming. There was a lot of fuckery in Arkansas with the US Atty. (Griffin?). Wasn’t he put there just to fuck over Hillary?

Yep. Gone now, though. It’s Jane Duke (acting) now.

Katymine,

Two inches here in the Valley? Dear Goddess, better toss the tarp over the wood table, turn the fire pit upside down, and hope our flat roof holds up. Thank Athena I got the olive trees pruned this fall. I don’t want to lose any more major branches in high winds.

Tim “the vote grifter” Griffin quietly made an exit and now works for Fred Thompsons campaign.

Is she related to Luke Duke? *g*

Yep…Griffin is KKKarl’s boy. I’m convinced Rove is playing the Wizard behind the curtain in more ways than we can imagine.

Me too. And I think the repub powers have decided that Hillary may be too strong and they want to run against Obama. And Edwards, of course, is the one that everyone is basically ignoring since he may be the repubs most formidable opponent.

I just stumbled across this rather lovely song by a band from Calgary.

Widow Maker – Please Don’t Say That You Love Me Again

Open primary means that any registered voter can ask for either ballot, Repug or Dem.

We have open primaries here in AZ but only at the state level. The Presidential race is closed primary. You have to be registered Democrat to vote in the AZ Democratic Presidential preference election. In a closed primary it means that those registered as independent or PND (party not designated) cannot vote in the primary.

Heh, Go Chiefs! ;-)

Never seen a storm on radar like this one, though — stretched into Canada and Mexico.

Looks like Duke came up through Bud Cummin’s (net even gonna go there) office, so Jane might well be a straight-shooter.

Good night all. I’m not going to fret over Rove. I’m convinced that if Obama is the nominee (although I’m still rooting for Edwards) that he has the oratorical skills to win over the voters.

This worrys me a little.. It’s all so Rovian.

Agents Raid Texas Democrat’s Offices

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) – Authorities raided the offices of an influential Democratic donor on Friday, prompting accusations by the donor’s attorneys that the raid was politically motivated.

The state attorney general’s office said it was assisting the Nueces County district attorney in the criminal investigation of Mauricio Celis, 36, who has given money to major Democratic candidates including Hillary Clinton and is the subject of numerous ongoing lawsuits and charges.

Attorney General Greg Abbott, a Republican, sued Celis in November, accusing him of practicing law without a license. Agents from Abbott’s office were among those involved in the Friday search of Celis’ Corpus Christi office.

“What is becoming abundantly clear is that we’re looking at a political vendetta by an openly ambitious Republican politician in Austin who wants to score points by persecuting a prominent Democrat in South Texas,” said Tony Canales, an attorney for Celis.

Solai,

Apparently Timmy boy took ratfuckery 101 from the evil jedi master himself, and of course he was good buddy of Monica’s. “Poor Tim, he was badly treated.” she murmured. Interesting how little pity Monica had for the careers of lawyers she helped to fire for no good reason. Strange Christian values, these Regent grads have.

Katy, I’d seen 17 for Obama, and 14 apiece for Hill and John…

When is the Arizona primary?

I’ll see you there.
Do you play Scrabble, by any chance? lol

Looks like Duke came up through Bud Cummin’s (net even gonna go there) office, so Jane might well be a straight-shooter.

Bud was a quiet soul wrt the fuckery in the DOJ, even in his House and Senate testimony. No more, though. In last months Washington Monthly, he cracks back at the DOJ SpokesDick, Brian Roehrkasse, and he doesn’t let him up. It’s beautiful.

Brian Roehrkasse, Please Leave the Building
Why the DOJ’s spokesperson dishonors the department

good night all.

Thom Hartman was giving those numbers this morning…. I could be wrong but it seemed to stick as Thom was trying to do the same thing. It is only a few delegates, they have to get more than 425 delegates to win.

Betsy AZ primary is Feb 5th…

nite betsy

Nite Betsy!

i’m one of those that thinks that this election is different and this primary cycle is different. the way that so many potential candidates started so early is an important factor. it may be that the Iowa caucuses have determined the candidates because of the early start of the potential candidates.
i don’t think that there is any point in Hillary and Edwards trying to slow Obama down. both Hill and John were seriously hurt this week. if they start doing something different now it will only cause more loss of momentum for them. Romney is really over. St. John may do well in New Hampshire but South Carolina will not be kind. S.C. is taylor made for Huckabee. he could run the tables on the South and that will be a lot of delegates. if he comes out of Super Tuesday with momentum McCain and Giuliani can forget about it.
the energy around Obama is phenominal. there will be some detours on the road to Denver but he’ll get there without being winded. i think that the cynics that think America will not elect a black man are dead wrong.
i hope he already has good Secret service protection.

full disclosure: i support John Edwards and i really hope he can rally from what happened in Iowa this week. i think he has the best ideas and the willingness to take on the power structure that is strangling America.

Margot,

Yeah, I play scrabble, but even the travel version wouldn’t fit in a body cavity. No, they are going to force us to watch looped videos of Nancy and Ronald Regan, 42 and Bar, Dubya and the Laurabot until we crack and beg to be waterboarded instead. With any luck the physician standing by won’t be able to revive me for round two.

Siun, IRCC, had posted on one of Jane’s threads last nite, the delegate tally…

OT Lott Opens New Lobbying Shop

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/
Wow Big surprise! He couldn’t wait to get the fuck out the door.
Another fucking rethug taking advantage… this needs be legislated out of existence. Why should any former elected official be allowed to make more $$$ they already get pensions and life time medical!!

The law is changed on new years day. That’s exactly why Lott left in the nick of time.

Breux-Lott Lobbyists, LLC… Love that Bipartisanship…! ;-)

Hello from the rainy, windy west coast. So far so good, this far inland it’s just a crappy night. It’s getting nasty on the coast. Lots of power lines down, flights delayed or canceled.

Has anyone heard from Suzanne? I assume her power is out by now, and let’s hope that’s the worst of it.

I am going to head off to bed…. If I have internets will see you tomorrow.

Rest well, katymine.

Night, katymine. Sleep well.

Katy–

That stat was quoted and pasted all over the firepup threads all night last night and the web. It doesn’t mean anything this time. Just watch, and I know that will probably upset a few people here.

This Sports Illustrated jinks phenomenon forecasting doom of the Democratic winner of the Iowa, and NH primaries is not going to happen this time IMHO. For a lot of reasons, and as every Charlie Rose guest invoked, including Bagala and Adam Negorney, Political editor of NYT, this election is really going to be, as much as it may pissoff some people about poetry, not the prose of governing.

You’ll see Obama do some policy wonking to get specific, but not just yet. Here’s how I see this playing out.

Because of the stupidity of states in this whole process, in insisting on being as close to Iowa as possible, and having quirky caucuses that don’t reflect a wide percentage of their eligible voters, Hillary doesn’t have enough time to repair what has been systemic damage to her candidacy.

Obama is going to knock her down in New Hampshire, and she isn’t going to get up and no EMS or Bill Clinton can help her get up. Terry McAuliff, Patti Doyle, Mark Penn, and Howard Wolfson, her brain trust, and Bill have probably advised her on the plane back and yesterday to start going negative fast twoards Obama, and to be more spontaneous. It won’t work; and she doesn’t have time, and this for her isn’t just early Iowa New Hampshire–she’s in demise.

That leaves Edwards, and I don’t think he can stem what is an Obama tide. He’s on matching funds, and he’s voluminously outfunded. Edwards’ mantra–my dog has it down by now–is that he saw the light which was for the son of a millworker who did 30 years of the most tedious work imaginable–I did that as a kid needing a job as a teenager and hated it–who saw the way to fight for his dad’s people through trial law. He felled some deep pockets, (and rightly so in a lot of incidences, via the Erin Brockovitch John Grissom plots) and you the people are being screwed by these big corporations, and certainly you are, and he’s the David that’s going to bring them to their knees, Hillary won’t, and Obama can’t.

It won’t work. I’m not saying Obama will have them out by so-called Super Tuesday on February 5, but he will have her out midway before it, and Edwards can’t stop him.

The Hillster Attacks Obama

Has anyone heard from Suzanne? I assume her power is out by now, and let’s hope that’s the worst of it.

What you said about those power lines?
Suzanne is dealing with that, but she’s fine.

Could be! But, I think the Scruggs investigation is getting a little too close, and/or, Larry Flynt has been mighty quiet after promising a blockbuster… Hmmm…? ;-)

Last we heard she was OK. keeping warm with her wood burner. Its a mess in the Santa Cruz mountains!

Thanks, LM. Glad she’s ok.

But of I did know that but it needs to be changed even more and bar them for life!! IMHO

Fahrender,

Did you by chance see Edwards on KO this evening? My husband and I thought he was suggesting that he and Obama would make good running mates and referred to them both several times as “candidates of change.” The unspoken, of course was that Hillary isn’t. Obama is my first choice, Edwards is a close second, and Hillary comes in last although I will support the candidate that gets the nomination. Thus speaks the feminist. Ain’t life ironic? As my girlfriend said this evening. “America is ready for a woman president, but she isn’t it.”

I also think that Obama’s Iowa win seemed astonishing to many because the media just hasn’t been covering the “Obama Effect.” This guy has been getting rock star receptions where ever he goes. My 82 year old lifetime FDR-hating card-carrying Republican father is thinking of voting for him. Could have knocked me over with a feather.

The the downward economic pressures on middle income and below is now horrific and growing FAST.

Housing rental prices are soaring as demands is strong from top and bottom of the market many areas have increased by 30%+.

Food prices are escalating across the board…basics like milk eggs and bread too.

Insurance, medical, dental and the list goes on.

It is the Big Squeeze and we need a congress and a white house that has programs that do something immediately to turn it around.

Which candiate will do that?

Seems to have calmed down here in Vancouver,I haven’t heard the wind howling outside like it was for a while.

I’m not ready to throw in the towel yet… I also do not believe in the inevitable yet…

I am part of the ArizonaForEdwards but I am not ready to say chuck it. Obama does not have the numbers here in AZ or in NV and we are part of super Tuesday.

Ok… I am going now…. take care all

“America is ready for a woman president, but she isn’t it.”

Amen! I couldn’t have said it better! I wouldn’t have, for my own well-being, too… *g*

Agreed.. or at least severely limit how much money they can earn lobbying. Perhaps 25 K max per year only after 3 to 5 years of not holding any elected office.

I’m not ready to throw in the towel yet… I also do not believe in the inevitable yet…

I am part of the ArizonaForEdwards but I am not ready to say chuck it. Obama does not have the numbers here in AZ or in NV and we are part of super Tuesday.

Ok… I am going now…. take care all

By all means, don’t throw in the towel.
Pete has a lot going for his guy, but the race has just started and there is way too much confidence coming out of Obama’s camp.

I talked with Suz this afternoon and she was OK and last I heard was awaiting power restoration. On this side of MtyBay our power came back about 6 PM.

And I’m with Teddy on the scale of this storm – have never seen anything like it before – if you haven’t seen the weather channel’s space photos of the enormity of the storms I’ll try to dig up a link.

I meant to add I think about 14 states have Byzantine quirky caucuses, with different rules, and New Hampshire is a secret ballot primary state using easily hackable software recently approved like most of your states good ole Diebold 194W. Computer scientists all over the country have shown nothing can reduce its vulnerability for tampering and hacking. I wonder how Katy, who I think is an IT pro, feels about most of the states in these elections using very easily hackable software and eschewing any way to verify what happens during the votes.

Of course, taking a clue from Cheney and Mukasey who refuse to release Fitz’s interviews of Cheney, Bush, et. al., Diebold refuses to release it’s program to public scrutiny.

MIT’s Computer Science department has made them look simply stupid, and the states have by and large ignored it, a lot like the stupidity of many states thinking they are protected against HFN1 with antivirals like Tamiflu which do nothing but help build resistance to Birdie flu at $60-$70 a week and have done little for patients with regular flu since the day the first one of four was on the market in the U.S. (Symmetrel).

The storm out west has already dramatically changed the weather here in AR. It was 7 degrees here 48 hours ago. Now, at 1 a.m. on a January night, it’s 53 degrees and very windy.

woo hoo katymine – John for President/Obama for VP!

Maretta,

i live in Dresden, Germany so i don’t get to watch KO except the video clips that i find on the internet. i watched the clip of Obama’s Iowa victory that i found over at Digby’s place and really felt the energy of his audience as well as his speech. i worry about who his backers are and who his policy makers and advisors will be. who will he trust? what are his instincts in the face of the monumental tasks with which he will be immediately confronted?
i, too, will support the Democratic Nominee, and i think that Obama and Edwards would be a fantastic team.

No one who believes in their candidate should ever say chuck it. You should fight for your candidate as hard as you can; I know people here take a lot of time and do the research in extraordinary depth and I forget who but someone posted last night that he was writing Edwards a check, putting one of Edwards’ people up in his home, and going out and canvassing for Edwards and all I had was admiration for this person. I think that’s the way it should work.

I was doing some predicting, and predicting can be very dangerous this early on.

woo hoo katymine – John for President/Obama for VP!

If only it could be in that particular order.

“The Richardson precinct captain to me after the caucus that when she saw that neither Richardson, Biden, nor Dodd were viable, she approached the Biden captain to see if they wanted to combine forces. The combined group would have made them a viable group, and would have earned them at least one delegate.

She said that the Biden captain told her he was given instructions that under no circumstances were they to combine with Richardson.”

wonder what that’s about

Yeah, because if Obama wins the nomination, I doubt Edwards would run for vp again.

truthfully, i’m not sure any candidate can do what you call for. in fact, i’m sure that none can. the question is, who can come closest to helping us all, and especially the working poor? America is seriously hurting and the Bush/Cheney Administration have mugged us repeatedly.

We lost power in the central coast of california early this afternoon in spots. Got it back at 9pm or so.
There is a lot of water and at sustained period of gale winds that is knocking out power. Coleman lantern, lots of batteries and and a small generator are good items to stock up.
The phones have been on so I guess those that know people without power like Suzanne can call and check on them. The out of door people (homeless) and animals are having a rough three or four days. Their is a lull coming so evryone should get out for exercise.

CTuttle,

Yeah, better not to say stuff like that if you aren’t a woman. The thing is, I really wanted her to be the one. I’m just terribly sad that she put power and ambition before the best interest of the people she claims to serve.

Big Brother,

I honestly don’t know which candidate is most likely to ignore the pleas of the corporate welfare folks, the insurance companies, big pharma and everyone who has money to lobby. I really like what Edwards has to say about coming to the rescue of the working poor and our disappearing middle class but I’ve been lied to before and on occasion I get the gut feeling that maybe he doesn’t always walk his talk. I hope I am wrong about that, cause he seems sincere. I’ve given up on Hillary, and Obama is the one with the most recent non-millionaire status, which means he may actually have been in a grocery store in the past five years. I don’t trust him completely, but Michelle Obama I trust to roll up a newspaper and smack Barak on the nose with it if he goes all power mad.

I know more than a few people who will be really upset if Hillary doesn’t get the nomination. They see her as a fighter. They don’t want another stiff in a suit…if I had a nickel for every time I heard that phrase, I’d …have gas money, anyway.

I might be able to live with that but this system sure has been abused by former members of congress and their staff. I am not sure lobbing should be tolerated at all. Look at what it has gotten us. Corporations are getting everything they low taxes and corporate welfare! WTF!! This ain’t right

No ifs, ands or buts – as in Edwards/Obama 2008 – or so I hope. ;~)

If only it could be in that particular order.

Agree with that.
If Edwards isn’t the nominee, and if Edwards were to accept the nod for the second slot (which I doubt he would – he’s too damned smart to leave his destiny to another candidate, after Kerry), I would rather it be Obama than Hillary. A Clinton-Edwards executive branch would make Edwards a very small Veep. But Obama would use him well.
OTOH, on experience alone, I would reluctantly take Hillary over Obama as President.
What to do…

The last time American youth was this excited about a presidential campaign was McGovern. Young folks were right then, I sure hope they are now.

i think Edwards would take the VP slot again. the question is, will Obama ask him?

Farender,

Dresden! Ohh, some day I am going to visit Dresden. My daughter and her husband are in Oldenburg this week visiting his sister. They will be in Germany until the 9th when they fly home to New Zealand. My daughter got her first taste of KO while she was visiting here before Christmas and loved him. So did my German son-in-law.

I’m not ready to throw in the towel yet… I also do not believe in the inevitable yet…

I am part of the ArizonaForEdwards but I am not ready to say chuck it. Obama does not have the numbers here in AZ or in NV and we are part of super Tuesday.

And that’s the way it should be Katy. It is way early, and I don’t have any qualifications whatsoever as an election analyzer or predictor other than a keyboard and a mouse. As I said, I admire that kind of participation from smart people who do their homework and care deeply. If only we had millions more in this country.

I wish you luck and appreciate your commitment.

I do worry about the voting machine software, from all I’ve been able to collect and read, though–a lot. I don’t trust right wing zealots, and I’m sure they wouldn’t trust me.

If Edwards doesn’t get the nod I hope he either accepts AG or maybe even Supreme Court. I think he would make a great justice and work like hell against Scallia and crew.

Raining like the dickens here. Thpt. Why always over a weekend and not during the week?? It’s a conspiracy.

Obama could do much worse than asking Edward to join him. Combined, they would wipe out Clinton.

Maretta,

come on over and i’ll show you around. are you from New Zealand? i work with a couple of Kiwis.

We might lucky from Bradblog: http://www.bradblog.com/
NY TIMES MAGAZINE TO RUN ‘MASSIVE, SCARY’ COVER STORY ON AMERICA’S E-VOTING DISASTER THIS SUNDAY
Cover Graphic Said To Show Exploding Voting Booth with ‘WARNING’ Label: ‘Your vote may be lost, destroyed, miscounted, wrongly attributed or hacked’

Lets hope so. No e-voting without a paper trail!!!

I’m with you all the way. I think he could make an extraordinary President, S.Ct. Justice, or AG. I’d love to see him on the S. Ct. and in the AG job–we need him on the S. Ct. yesterday. Boy if we only had Edwards on the S. Ct. instead of several that we do.

I think whoever wins the general, if Hillary doesn’t pull out of what I perceive as a slide and I could be dead wrong, that there is a fair chance whoever wins the Dem primary of an Obama Edwards ticket which ever position each occupies on it.

The federal appellate courts as you know have been impacted hugely by Bush and compliant Dems–240 Bush appointments to the trial and appellate bench have gotten there.

Sorry dear fahrender but I’m with newtonusr – John Edwards isn’t interested in being VP to either Clinton or Obama in any event IMO.

And I believe combined they can wipe out Mitt Romney, certainly McCain, and Rudy. I pick Romney to win the general, and I could be surprised. The main streammedia sure has hopped on the McCain bus again with both feet. Talk about fickle.

Hillary has to be planning on Clark as her VP or doubling down with another woman, but who?

Traditionally, the VP position is very weak. I’d like to see Edwards in a more powerful position such as AG.

The only way any of team GOPer can win against any of our top three candidates is if they steal it again.

Obama could do much worse than asking Edward to join him. Combined, they would wipe out Clinton.

Yep. It would be ruinous to her.
NH – 1/8
MI – 1/15
Nevada Caucus – 1/19
SC, FL – 1/26
AL, AK, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DE, GA, IL, MN, MO, NJ, ND, OK, TN, UT – 2/5.
Over in 30 days.

Heard that,but it sure does piss me off that under Democratic control more judges were put on the bench than under the rethuglians… We need to hold our dems feet to the fire!!

She won’t be doubling down. Clark, however, comes off as very ineffectual. I grant his credentials, but she needs some charisma on her ticket.

I’m just terribly sad that she put power and ambition before the best interest of the people she claims to serve.

So am I, Ma’am, So am I! And my better half is comin’ around… *g*

These two candidates have energy and can do the long days. John Edwards comes from a blue collar factory town he knows the territory. Obama understands the race issues. They could work together. They both have warmth. Obama never seems to let his wife share the spotlight. His karismatic religion may prevent him from women’s rights and other issues religion related.

Hear. Hear.

It wouldn.t be the first time!

I really would have like to have seen Clark become President, and I thought Dean and still do could make a great President. I was sorry to see that it didn’t work out for both of them. I would like to see Clark have decision making power that would have impact.

Secretary of Defense and Secretary of State also come to mind, no matter who is in the general or elected.

AL, AK, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DE, GA, IL, MN, MO, NJ, ND, OK, TN, UT – 2/5.

An Asinine, Absurd Amount…!!!

Very well said. I absolutely believe that.

Sorry dear fahrender but I’m with newtonusr – John Edwards isn’t interested in being VP to either Clinton or Obama in any event IMO.

I am looking for a link to an interview Edwards gave at least 8 months back, in which he flatout declined to run as VP.
But when it comes down to it, if asked, it might be hard to decline. He does have, however, the Kerry-hangover. Really, I have no idea what he would do.

Pete’s right about it being too early to make predictions – and i don’t have any more expertise to do it than he does but i like to take the chance and see how my intuition plays out. i don’t think Obama needs Edwards to beat Clinton. it might not be easy but i think he can and will do it. whether or not he will deliver it he offers the hope of change more than Hillary does. Hillary’s one trump offer is that she is a woman. She’s intelligent and she’s been around the track a few times but she’s Old Republican Lite in a skirt. She’s establishment and all that entails. America wants change, but not too much change (not talking about us hard core progressives). Obama seems to offer that. plus, he has ENERGY. without breathing hard or pounding his fist. this is what they feel and it’s infectious. hard to stop.

Hillary has to be planning on Clark as her VP or doubling down with another woman, but who?

She needs some help in the South. Vilsac is a dumbfounding choice.
ES – is she regarded as “Southern”, or pure carpet-bagger in AR?

newspaperbrat January 4th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
115
In response to fahrender @ 106
Sorry dear fahrender but I’m with newtonusr – John Edwards isn’t interested in being VP to either Clinton or Obama in any event IMO.

no appologies necessary! we’ll see who’s right *g*

He does have, however, the Kerry-hangover. Really, I have no idea what he would do.

The Been-There, Done-That, Malaise…! 8-(

i’d think that with elizabeth’s health issues, VP might not be worth it to the family. don’t know though, that’s an awfully personal decision that different people will find different answers to.

Madelaine Albright was foreign born – would that exclude her from VP?

Agreed 100%. And I think it’s unfortunate that they don’t want as much change as progressives.. But I blame low info/ lousy media/lousy congress for much of that.

i’ve been saying clark for a long time.

course, i have no fucking clue what i’m talking about.

farender,

No, I live in the US, Phoenix Arizona. My daughter met her husband while he was stationed here when he was in the German military. He went into the diplomatic service after he left the US and was stationed in China and then in Afghanistan. By that time they had gone from being friends to boyfriend/girlfriend. The time he was at the embassy in Afghanistan were the two longest years of my life, because she was either in school here or in Germany at the time and when she couldn’t reach him after there was an explosion…lets just say I am glad he is safe now, and not wearing a flack jacket to bed at night. When he got his current assignment in New Zealand two years ago, she finally joined him there. They got married in August. He is a fantastic fellow, and he treats my girl like a princess. That does a mother’s heart good. Someday I am going to Germany and visit all these places I have postcards from.

Difficult for me to say about the entire South but she polls overwhelming on top in AR.

wigwam January 4th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
118
In response to fahrender @ 106
Traditionally, the VP position is very weak. I’d like to see Edwards in a more powerful position such as AG.

the last two VP’s have been delegated more power, shall we say? one thing is for sure, Edwards should have an important part to play in national affairs, yes.

Madelaine Albright was foreign born – would that exclude her from VP?

Since it would exclude her from Pres, I would think so.

Well, He’s a true Arkansaw native son, who happens to have been a NATO Chief… ;-)

You know who else has been researching just that question–and who knows what he’s planning to do?

Bloomberg’s attorneys who are close to him have been looking it to that for Arnold Schwarzenegger.

The Constitution is silent on it, and there of course, have been no S. Ct. precedents.

Not sure but I think so. Prez has to native so it would sense that VP must also as VP could become prez if the prez died.

Clark would be an excellent SecDef. He, for the first time, got a nation to capitualte to airpower (without using nuclear weapons). Goering tried and failed. Clark succeeded.

That sounds like I’m indicting him, but the point is that that is how future wars will be fought. The planes will likely be robots. Most of the targets will likely be other robot planes. But, we need to be prepared to fight in that arena, and Clark would be an excellent choice to lead that effort. (Evil though it may be.)

And really, it’s going to be McCain. And Edwards IMO, is the only one of the 3 that can beat him
Wigwam – help me out. Does Iowa change our math on this? I don’t think so.

I am looking for a link to an interview Edwards gave at least 8 months back, in which he flatout declined to run as VP.

No one who’s running for president ever admits they’d take VP unless it’s clear they’re not going to win, so that doesn’t really tell you anything.

I noticed Edwards declined to say anything negative about Obama on Countdown, even though he painted it as a two-way race between them.

I don’t believe he’s thinking about it at this point, but I think he’s smart enough not to foreclose the option of Edwards/Obama or Obama/Edwards.

As far as I can tell, there is no native born requirement to be VP.

I as well;
Fahrender; Kurt Vonnegut was in Dresden during the WII as was a friend who was born in Germany and immigratee after the war as a veternarian. he saw the bombing from a nearby town and has never gotten over the devatation as Kurt obviously did not either. Why are we as a nation so warlike? So immune to devastation? Vonnegut has a saying I believe in kindness.

But of course if you’re entertaining that thesis, then if the President were not able to continue, that would put the Speaker of the House next in line.

The Constitution is silent on it,

here’s what i read:

But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

I would rather that than a non native, not that I am anti immigrant but I would rather have a native born… just my personal feelings.

Yes that’s there, and the arguing has been about what that means although it seems clear on its face.

The U.S. Constitution would preclude anyone not a natural born citizen from assuming the office of President:

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

Thanks selsie for that update. I knew some body here at the lake would get the skinny.

“No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President…”

While it isn’t explicitly stated that the VP must be “natural born,” since it does state that the VP becomes president on his death, resignation, or disability, I rather doubt anyone would claim they could serve as VP if they were not eligible to do that. (Note that it says “eligible to the Office of President,” not eligible to be elected president, so it should apply to the elevation of the VP.)

Yes that’s there, and the arguing has been about what that means although it seems clear on its face.

All that mess a couple of years ago about Ahnold being “ineligible” led the Goopers to suggest changing the Constitution. So even they seem to regard that phrase as sacrosanct. For what that’s worth, they don’t seem to have any problems running roughshod over it now…

given the right circumstances every nation is warlike. Germany certainly was. France, England, Japan, Russia, Italy, Poland, Sweden, Denmark, Argentina, Spain, India, China, Viet Nam, the US, etc. aggression is in our genes. war makes it OK. then we have permission to be totally immoral and insane.
once you’ve had the shit bombed out of you your perspective changes.

Redshift,

Edwards on Countdown was really going all out to praise Obama and align himself with Obama. He emphasized how much they had in common as candidates for change. Almost like he was talking about two Dem candidates vs a Republican one, with Hillary as the Republican. Dick Cheney in a skirt, someone once said. I got the feeling Edwards was considering Obama as a VP. My husband, who is a big Obama fan seemed to think Edwards was thinking of being Obama’s VP if things go south for him. It was an interesting interview, no matter what your take away was on it.

Heh, Nobody told me DK was on Moyers as well… Only Ron Paul… :-P

Honestly, I think the requirement of being a US resident for at least fourteen years (which is also in there) is probably good enough for me. I’m just as glad Ahnold isn’t eligible as a specific case, but as a general principle I think it’s outlived its usefulness, which I think was originally to keep some foreign prince from sweeping in and taking over the weak young country.

Edwards on Countdown was really going all out to praise Obama and align himself with Obama.

Saw that. He included Obama and himself as change-agents, and implicitly excluded Senator Clinton rather starkly.

it’s been real, folks, now i gotta go pretend like i’m working. catch ya on the flip side ……

Well its just about tomorrow and I need to check out the house and roof (flat roof on second story) And clean up the debris around the yard in antisipation for the next round!

Nighty nite All!!
Oh please please I don’t want the governator to be VP talk about a flip flopper. The nurse here sure put him in his place!!

I think that’s the wasy it would play out if someone tried to run for VP who isn’t native born. It seems pretty straight forward, so I’m not sure what Bloomberg’s legals are researching.

I don’t think Bloomberg runs for anything anyway as far as a 3rd party at this point, but who knows.

He has made pretty deprecatory comments about the candidates.

Or for a more hopeful perspective, remember that it wasn’t that long ago that England maintained an army and navy to prevent an invasion from France (and many similar examples.)

Nice to see you fahrender.

Aloha, Sleepers!

AAACK.
I was messin’ around with the format on my Blog and all of a sudden I start hearing this whiny, nasal voice.
Bigger’n shit, it’s Bobo.

I liked Greg Sargent’s complaint about how Bloomberg keeps getting coverage bad-mouthing all the candidates, sometimes outright lying about them, even though there’s no actual news there.

I should really get to bed. G’night, all!

Nite Phase Changer.
Lol.

There are like 300 million folks that are natural born U.S. citizens. If we can’t do better than Arnold from a pool of 300 million we’re in seriously deep shit.

I wonder if congress will wake up and do something (impeach!) if they catch the Obama Edwards wave, instead of playing everything so close to the chest expecting Clintons return.. I wonder what effect Obama will have on congressional races re our desires for more and better Dems. I would think it will be much better than Clintons love of DLC Blue Dogs.

Greenwald did a reality check on Obama. He described his position as letting the listener defie in their mind what he would do. The fill in the blank or…a tabla raza kind of presentation where he generalises his position’ Here is aa example… America is ready for change what change, how in what areas is left to the imagination of the listener. He is skating on any commitment to policy…the war, the economy the corporate influences. It is a vacuous presentation filled with passion. Full of warmth and fuzziness other skilled orators are good at that. You can’t take the blank to the bank. So when to do get something besides Willian Jennings Brian from Obama? Commitment to what and whom?

Agreed. We need life long citizens to be president. If a Henry Kissinger ever came along and took the oval.. I would never forgive myself..)

So far as I can tell, Obama hasn’t diasvowed the blue dogs. We’re talking here about a Lieberman protoge. It’s up to him to tell us he has changed, and so far he hasn’t.

Agreed. We need life long citizens to be president. If a Henry Kissinger ever came along and took the oval.. I would never forgive myself..)

That’s just grisly.

So you want Arnold the strongman Swazenneger for president. Bad move Look where California is now under him. $45 Billion in the red. He is a consumate authoritarion personality. We need some pliable people in charge. No more HBush type A personalities plu…ease

Boy that more and better dems question is the $64 dollar one for me. How to find them, and how to get them in. Congress has to me, been one of the sickest components that has hurt this country.

OMG, Bobo wants McCain.

wigwam – Just in case you missed this today. Padilla is suing Yoo!

My eyes demand sleep now.

Good night firedogs.

So you want Arnold the strongman Swazenneger for president.

Abso-fuckin-lutely not!

That thought should be obvious…the change thing has to be heard by the center as the whole electorate seems to be moving left on both sides of the aisles

Gnite ES.

nite Eureka
great thread!

Ditto! I shall bid a fond adieu, too! Aloha Oe!!!

Gnite Y’all.

The Village is in a panic. They are a bunch of neocons in various clothing. A large fraction of them are non-christians, which rules out Huck. So, who’s left? Romney, who seems to be self-destructing. Bloomberg. And McCain. Those folks have a real problem.

Let’s move the aisle rather that reaching across it.

Yep.
Ha Ha Ha Ha , not just with their candidates either…..

wigwam – Just in case you missed this today. Padilla is suing Yoo!

This gladdens my heart and makes my day!!!

That is what has driven the netroots to such success…opposing the status quo. Wigwan is very hard to disagree with, not that I want to. Blue dogs voting with bushco…never vote for that. Why all the money and effort to ellect progressives when Pelosi, Reid, Rahmn and Hoyer are delivering us to bushco…judges, Ag and much much more. Is that what you Obama supporters want. I think he is the easy way out.
I spoke with a very conservative attorney yesterday she is a controlling partner in second largest goverment law firm on the West Coast. When I brought up Obama she lit up and said how she a conservative republican could support him? Go figure folks. Be careful what you ask for. Californis asked to dump Grey Davis for Arnold and got screwed again by republicans. When will you ever learn. All funding to local government has been cut. Programs for the needy are being wiped.
The people that have lately started blogging here have a completrely different tone than the ones who initiated the 2006 dem sweep. Caveat Emptor.

Sweet dreams y’all – am off to dreamland and visions of dry warmer spring days ahead.

Thanks for your great post ES!

Gnite NPB
I’m out too Good nite Y’all

The poker table was piled high with bets both cash and promissory notes…
Bushco raised the blue dogs who called all in. The biggest pot in the worlds history was at stake…bushco dealt the hand from the bottom of the deck Reid and Pelosi folded and the USA was bankrupt… corporate america walked with the pot.. Us citizens pulled out our empty pocket and walked away into the dark night. Stock market has lost the 2007 gains in two days.

Hi BigBro: The netroots are getting wiser, as are the voters in general. But damn, there is so far to go.

In a presidential candidate, IMHO, the key trait is what the military calls “situational awareness.” What I and my friends call “cluefulness.” People who know what the fuck is going on.

Clinton and Obama have given me no indication that they realize that we are in a fight to save the Republic. Obama wants to “reach across the aisle” to those who I consider the enemy. Clinton wants to get on with business and usual and take care of the deficit, drugs, healthcare, and repairing the roads. All of those are noble efforts, but she has absolutely no situational awareness if she thinks those are the top priorities.

It’s gunna get much much worse.

Howard Dean.

The poker table was piled high with bets both cash and promissory notes…
Bushco raised the blue dogs who called all in. The biggest pot in the worlds history was at stake…bushco dealt the hand from the bottom of the deck Reid and Pelosi folded and the USA was bankrupt… corporate america walked with the pot.. Us citizens pulled out our empty pocket and walked away into the dark night. Stock market has lost the 2007 gains in two days.

Re: Wes Clark, Secy of Defense. He was Supreme Allied Commander Europe NATO until 2000.

By statute the secretary must be a civilian who has not served in the active component of the armed forces for at least 10 years (10 USC Sec. 113 – Note that Congress had passed a law to allow George Marshall to be appointed in 1950 despite having only been a civilian since 1945). The Secretary of Defense is sixth in the presidential line of succession.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U…..of_Defense

Back from dinner and watching “Juno” in Anchorage. Great dinner and we both loved the movie. We were talking on the long drive home about how glad we are we aren’t in the stock market right now.

Clinton and Obama have given me no indication that they realize that we are in a fight to save the Republic. Obama wants to “reach across the aisle” to those who I consider the enemy. Clinton wants to get on with business and usual and take care of the deficit, drugs, healthcare, and repairing the roads. All of those are noble efforts, but she has absolutely no situational awareness if she thinks those are the top priorities.

That’s about the most generous analysis possible.

Hi ET, what was for dinner?

Hiya, SunnyN!

I had two oysters from Katchemak Bay, a wilted spinach and prosciutto salad and a teeny filet mignon. Ms. ET had a roasted pear, brie and greens salad, and braised halibut. The resataurant, named “Ginger,” is fairly new, full of late-20 and early-3) somethingish people, and we like the place.

“Juno” is incredibly good, and I’m looking forward to seeing Ms. Page again.

Sounds lovely.. off to locate Katchemak Bay.

It took me a while to find a word (or two) that describes exactly what Edwards has that Clinton and Obama lack. IMHO, it’s “situational awareness,” which the military (and anyone who’s been in a street fight) will assure you is absolutely essential in a conflict. IMHO, those of us who want to take our country back face true villians, many of whom deserve to be incarcerated.

Still sitting here thinking and trying to figure it all out.

The “party ID” data from CNN’s analysis of the Iowa caucus data still haunts me. Obama did great with Dems, Reps, and Indies. But, Edwards did much better than Clinton with the Reps and the Indies compared to Clinton, who essentially matched Obama with the Dems. And there was a similar pattern w.r.t., the Ideology table.

IMHO, that’s very significant data. But I don’t understand what the significance is.

The Fed might lower rates in a surprise move or they might wait for their next meeting, Bush wants an economic stimulus package which is expected to include tax cuts.
From a GOPer’s logic or a Center Dem this would place us in a catch 22 situation. Either we lower taxes or Bush will try and blame the bad economy which his party with control of the House, Senate, White House and Supreme Court created.
Never mind if Nancy folds or not we are already in trouble and Bush’s plan would probably take another 6 months to make our economy worse. Which is just in time for the election. Thank you Bushie with your help we might beat Reagen’s or FDR’s vote totals.
But what happens if the Fed cuts and the market goes up for a week and then keeps going down? That could start a panic it would mean the Fed has lost control of the situation.
But lower interest rates only help the market if hedge funds and financial firms can borrow more money from banks and buy stock on margin.
This whole subprime thing is making banks nervous about lending money.
Plus lets not forget the average American who pays for gas with a dollar that goes down in value every time Helicopter Ben lowers interest rates to save Wallstreet.

1,717 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Wigwam and the early mornin’ Firepup Freedom Fighters:

“IMHO,that’s very significant data. But I don’t inderstand what the significance is.”

It is significant for Iowa but Iowa is over and New Hamshire is a whole new ballgame. Iowa has never been significant except to cull the field and begin to energize the activist base…New Hampshire, however, IS significant because the strategic crossover from Republicans is much harder to accomplish in a voting primary as opposed to open caucus and New Hamshire will give us a look at how the big three will fare with real Democrats. This whole thing is a long way from over and those who are tryin’ ta write Edwards’ obituary are whistlin’ past the graveyard.

In my opinion, both Mrs. Clinton and Barak O’Lieberman are playin ta the RNC and Republican crossovers…with the corporate media tryin ta ignore Edwards and his message you would think that there is no real Democratic base out there anymore, but guess what dear, there really are Democrats out there and they are ready ta vote. New Hamshire is gunna bring politics back to the Democratic Party.

Jest remember that this thing is a long way from over and super Tuesday might not even be a clincher.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…DON’T GIVE ‘EM ANYMORE THAN THEY’VE ALREADY TAKEN!!!

I spent some time in Korea with USMC war vets. Situational awareness and presence of mind were frequent topics. Seems they were prime on evaluation scales. Not sure the precise distinction – probably relates to assessment/comprehension v. ability/readiness to respond. Your sa terminology nails it and it’s important.

When they had that idiot Mac Arthur sending them into a trap it was a good thing they had it. . .

Mornin Norkse, off to the coffee shop with the pupster.

Good morning pups!

In my opinion, both Mrs. Clinton and Barak O’Lieberman are playin ta the RNC and Republican crossovers…with the corporate media tryin ta ignore Edwards and his message you would think that there is no real Democratic base out there anymore, but guess what dear, there really are Democrats out there and they are ready ta vote. New Hamshire is gunna bring politics back to the Democratic Party.

The CNN polling data from Iowa indicates that the crossovers and independents liked Edwards more than they liked Hillary.

In any case, I’m told that NH has a wide open primary in the sense that anyone can vote in whatever primary they choose when they get to the polling place. (That’s not official but I got it from a usually reliable source.)

That indicates that there’ll be as many or more crossover Republicans and Indies in NH as there were in Iowa.

Good morning, pups. It’s TOMC and Bob Herbert in the NYT today. TOMC says that if she were around right now, Hillary Rodham the commencement speaker would probably be an Obama girl because Obama is the most conservative visionary of the Democratic candidates. Mr. Herbert says the simple truth is that hardly anyone realized what an extraordinary candidate Senator Barack Obama would turn out to be. I, for one, hope that there’s more than oratory. We’ve had 8 years of “all hat, no cattle” and I don’t think we can stand any more.

http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/

The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and I’ve got waffles with either real maple syrup or the last of the gingered peach sauce. We seem to be emerging a bit from the deep freeze. It’s above freezing this morning, so when it’s lighter outside I think I’ll unwrap my Swiss chard and the brave little portulaca volunteer under the azaleas. Have a good day.

We’ve had 8 years of “all hat, no cattle” and I don’t think we can stand any more.

Indeed!

My grandmother got her kids to eat spinach by announcing the new dish was “swiss chard” which they had never heard of. I think kids know their rights better these days.

Good Morning egregious and wigwam and Marion,

mMmmmm waffles, maple syrup, …thanks!

Three warm cheers to the portulaca!

Well, I was a weird kid and actually preferred vegetables to meat! (Except okra, of course… I still won’t eat that stuff — snot from the ground.)

My grandmother got her kids to eat spinach by announcing the new dish was “swiss chard” which they had never heard of. I think kids know their rights better these days.

someone tried to trick me into eating my vegetables the other night claiming they were fruits — and botanically he was right, but he didn’t fool me.

Marion,
how many more days of Bush do we have to endure?

In my opinion, both Mrs. Clinton and Barak O’Lieberman are playin ta the RNC and Republican crossovers…with the corporate media tryin ta ignore Edwards and his message you would think that there is no real Democratic base out there anymore, but guess what dear, there really are Democrats out there and they are ready ta vote. New Hamshire is gunna bring politics back to the Democratic Party.

Hang in there Norske we will do our best in NH to dump the corporate crowd. So round one in the Dem. race went to the corporations. We are now on to round two where we hope common sense prevails, MSM is ignored and the need for “doing the PC thing” will not be necessary as we have a private/secret ballot. In NH we do not have to demonstrate how “cool” we are by voting for a black or a women we can vote against the gooper Iraq invasion, for universal health care, against corporate financed politics, for accessible education and for Unions.

My uncle, one of the poor children duped by the swiss chard scheme, drew the line at rutabaga. After a taste, he declared that every person should be permitted one food they could refuse to eat. This was so sensible they had to say yes. I would have picked rhubarb, inedible unless drowning in sugar.

CSPAN lineup for
WASHINGTON JOURNAL
Saturday, January 5

7:30am – Andrew Cline, New Hampshire Union Leader, Editorial Page Editor
8am – Paul Manuel, Saint Anselm College NH Inst. of Politics, Exec. Director
8:30am – NH State Rep. John Reagan (R), “Taxpayer Pledge” Advocate
9am – John Thyng, New Hampshire for Health Care, Director | Candidates’ Health Care Positions [PDF alert!]
9:30am – Fred Parady, WY Republican Party, Chairman

Thanks for the Cspan Elliott, much appreciated.

381 days until W slinks off.

I’m still holding out for okra!

Any chance you can make that a little sooner?

thanks Marion! and you’re welcome egregious :)

We also shouldn’t forget about this — Voter ID court challenges. We lost in Georgia, and every time I’m asked for my driver’s license I tell them that the law in iniquitous. The poll watchers, largely black and elderly, agree with me.

Oh, if only…!

Of course, it we get her a prettier table to you think Mme. Pelosi might put impeachment on it???

DON’T DO IT BILL!!!

this will get epu’d and be on point sometime today but I can’t wait and will repost later, but check this out because this is poetic justice for the clintons;

Bill Clinton takes a swipe at media — Bill Clinton voiced his abiding anger at the media’s coverage of him and his wife in Durham, N.H., today, and suggested that media bias will force Clinton to go negative on Barack Obama. —

william jefferson clinton, you did this to yourself, you could have prevented the consolidation of media, you could have reinstituted the fairness doctrine, and you could have stopped playing favorites with media moguls

this is your own doing

now, if you want to go negative on obama, you are gonna help edwards not your wife

let it go, let your wife campaign on her record and her vision, if someone is going to go after obama it can’t be your camp if you want your wife to be the candidate

Spot on, perris.

Yeah. Ain’t karma a bitch, though?

So, going back to last night’s results, crossover and independent voters favored Obama and Edwards much more than they did Clinton. Bad news for Hillary. (If I’m understanding the CNN entrance polls correctly.)

This phenomenon helps Edwards, but from the stats not enough to win. Edwards will have to hit a nerve to win (IMHO).

I think that Hillary will have to win (or be a very close second) in NH to win the nomination…if Obama wins it’s going to be hard for either Edwards or Clinton to beat the momentum.

All will stay in until the next set of primaries hoping for a miracle, though. There, Edwards would have to win in South Carolina. If he can’t win there then the idea that he can do anything in the South is likely a fiction. But he will also have to win a few other States as well to demonstrate he’s more than a regional phenomenon.

I’m a little shocked at his results in Iowa. I thought he would do better than in 2004 especially as Howard Dean wasn’t drawing off the progressive vote. Beating Hillary was a tepid victory. It was minimal and not by a large enough margin to send her campaign in NH into an utter tailspin panic mode.

I’m a little shocked at his results in Iowa. I thought he would do better than in 2004 especially as Howard Dean wasn’t drawing off the progressive vote.

OB comes from the next door state to IA he got a lot of help from the IA neighbours, bus loads of young IL people knocking on doors for him and a lot of students caucusing for him that is not the case here in NH. In addition he picked up a number of “votes” from other candidate’s supporters that is not going to happen here. There is a lot of support for Richardson here, not so much for the little twit from Cleveland. HRC is not well liked here either. Some because of big bill’s cigar antics but also because of NAFTA and welfare reform. I think that Edwards will do well here, probably a good second if not first. Hillary, hopefully, will be send to the scrap heap.

Well, thank heavens. NBC doesn’t have to discuss anything important on the Today show because there’s a blond hiker missing somewhere.

Hey come and join us for Pull Up A Chair

Perspective…
There are 852 delegates for the 2008 DNC national convention.
Per wiki history no winner of the Iowa Dem caucus in a contested primary have been elected President.
Per wiki – only ONE winner of the NH Dem Primary have been elected President – Jimmy Carter.

They only have O-13, E-12 & C-11 pledged delegates…. there is a whole lot more races to get to majority.

RGB… I saw it ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_caucus

Where’d you get this erroneous information katy? If one looks at candidates who took first in the Iowa caucuses you have
2004 – John Kerry (38%);
2000 – Al Gore (63%) [and Bill Bradley (37%)];
1996 – Bill Clinton (unopposed)
1992 – “Favorite son” Tom Harkin (76%), [No one else actually seriously ran, though]
1988 – Dick Gephardt (31%), Paul Simon (27%), Michael Dukakis (22%), and Bruce Babbitt (6%)
[Also viewed as suspect as Gephardt was something of a “favorite son” from an adjacent farm-belt state]
1984 – Walter Mondale (49%)
1980 – Jimmy Carter (59%) and Ted Kennedy (31%)
1976 – “Uncommitted” (37%), Jimmy Carter (28%) Birch Bayh (13%), Fred R. Harris (10%), Morris Udall (6%), Sargent Shriver (3%), and Henry M. Jackson (1%)
1972 – “Uncommitted” (36%), Edmund Muskie (36%), George McGovern (23%), Hubert Humphrey (2%), Eugene McCarthy (1%), Shirley Chisholm (1%), and Henry M. Jackson (1%)

So the candidate that received the most votes in Iowa became the Democratic nominee 6 times out of 9. In only one of those was there an unopposed candidate (although one could regard Kennedy’s bid as such, it WAS viewed as a real threat at the time). Two of those times there was a “favorite son” and most people argued that the Iowa votes were not indicative of more than regional support. And 1972 was an oddity as well, given Muskies psychological meltdown after a Republican dirty-tricks campaign. In my view “Uncommitted” is NOT a candidate who can win the nomination…and everyone considers the person who emerges as first amongst the candidates in such a race as the “winner”.

In any event, there was no favorite son in this campaign and “uncommitted” didn’t lead the options. There was no President in office. So the race was far more like 2004,1984, and 1972 or 2000, 1980 and 1976. In all but one the Iowa caucus winner did emerge as the eventual nominee.

Has Edwards actually said that he would prosecute any former Bush Administration officials? Or encourage Congress to undertake a post-hoc impeachment to assure that none of them could ever hold public office (or receive government contracts, lobby, etc.) ever again? In my view he is another “live and let live” sort…or perhaps “live and learn” would be a better descriptor. He’d let bygones be bygones and work to pass laws restraining future corruption (even though the laws already exist).

Has Edwards ever stated that he would work to criminally prosecute ant Bush official? Did he move to encourage impeachment (by the House) while he was a Senator? There were many criminal and Unconstitutional acts already known by then. Seemed he was awfully conciliatory back then…for example, not calling out Cheney in his debates.

Here’s some interesting facts about the NH Democratic Primary. Since 1952 the eventual party nominee was selected 10 times [6/8 since 1976]. The campaign has sometimes been referred t as a “Giant Killer”, even for the eventual winner. LBJ withdrew from the ‘68 campaign after a mediocre win in NH. Ed Muskie broke down after Nixonian dirty tricks that occurred there. Harry Truman decided not to attempt a 3rd term after losing to Estes Kefauver. Then there’s Gary “Monkeybusiness” Hart. So coming in #2 in NH isn’t a “kiss of death” if the winner makes a major stumble down the road. But NH. like Iowa, is a good predictor of the eventual nominee.

Some people like to point out that the Democratic NH primary is a poor predictor of the eventual President. But that’s simply because few Democrats have actually won the Presidency since 1980. So that could be a criticism rased against almost ANY primary that Clinton lost in 1992, where he still came in second against Tsongas! Clinton won an “uncontested” NH Primary in 1996.

But to say the Democratic NH Primary isn’t a good predictor of eventual success is simply saying that NO contested Democratic Primary is a very good predictor over the last few decades. One would have to look at the Republican Primaries for THAT. It is a good predictor of the eventual Democratic NOMINEE (though not 100% certain).

2004 John Kerry Senator John Edwards fourth
2000 VP Al Gore Senator Bill Bradley
1996 Bill Clinton (no serious opposition)
1992 Paul Tsongas #2 Bill Clinton [Tsongas from neighboring Mass…Clinton emerged from the pack to gain the monicker “The Comeback Kid”]
1988 Michael Dukakis
1984 Gary Hart #2 VP Walter Mondale
1980 Jimmy Carter #2 Edward Kennedy #3 Gov. Jerry Brown.
1976 Jimmy Carter
1972 Edmund Muskie #2 George McGovern
1968 Lyndon B. Johnson #2 Eugene McCarthy [LBJ had a poor showing vs. McCarthy though, showing vulnerability; eventually VP Hubert Humphrey was nominated after a campaign marked by the assassination of Robert Kennedy]
1964 Lyndon B. Johnson (no serious opposition)
1960 Sen. John F. Kennedy businessman Paul C. Fisher
1956 Estes Kefauver Governor Adlai E. Stevenson II
1952 Sen. Estes Kefauver Pres. Harry S. Truman [HST decided not to run for 3rd term after this defeat]

Les Baobab…fantastiques. Finally getting recognition, still slowly, after decades of playing.

Hey, I missed you guys. Our power was out for about eight hours yesterday. What a storm! Seems you all had quite the discussion last night. I’m glad to see the top three dems kicked GOP butt meme going strong here.